Looking - General Discussion

[CMH1981]

I agree that Patrick probably didn't tell Richie all about his Kevin issues, but there is no doubt in my mind that Richie knows something is up w/ Kevin and Patrick, and that's why he came to see him and said he didn't want to talk at this time.  Richie allows himself to be dragged into this mess when he should really just wash his hands and tell Patrick he can't or doesn't want to be friends, stick w/ his earlier stance where he let Patrick know they were never really friends.  

 

My meaning by I can't stand Kevin, Patrick, and by extension Richie is just that b/c they are all intertwined when they don't have to be.  I can't stand Richie b/c in my opinion he acts like he is better than others, he exudes a smugness in my opinion.  As I mentioned before where he says he didn't originally see the need for him and Patrick to be friends after the break up, I got that, but then we find out he talks shit about Patrick behind their back when his drunk boyfriend spilled the beans.  He chooses to still be involved somewhat b/c he still has feelings for Patrick.  It's my own personal opinion.

[NorthstarATL]

Well, not stupid, but Patrick needed to believe that Kevin chose him, over being with Jon and possibly any man that may come into his presence in the future.

At this point, Patrick's not sure about Kevin at all. Not that he ever has, but he needed to think that way about him.

Why can't you stand Richie "by extension"?

I don't think that Patrick told him, that Kevin believes in non-monogamy. Or that Patrick wants to get back with him. I think that Patrick told Richie as little as possible, so that he could get through the haircut, without having to talk about Kevin.

You know where you can go to get a haircut and not get asked any questions about the current state of your relationship? Anywhere else in the world is where. Patrick specifically went to Richie because they are endgame, which trivializes any investment by the viewer in Patrick/Kevin. Not that I was invested, because I tend to find Patrick an annoyingly self-involved twit. And one of the signs of self-aggragandisement is the assumption while someone is cheating in their partner with you is that you are so special that he/she would never pull the same thing on you. And yet it always happens. Because that is who they are. It;s harsh, but it's true.

   Glad Doris and Dom patched things up. He jumped the gun with the financial investment, but hopefully he'll get some attention from guys next season. Surely he's as easy to fall for as Patrick? Or maybe he's just more my type.

[Irlandesa]

The shot at Patrick's mom was not cool, either.

Not at all.  And it was oddly inaccurate depending on one's opinion of monogamy.  She fell into an emotional affair but before physically acting on it, she plans on ending her current relationship.  It's not great and I've already given my opinion on how I feel about this in the Sanctuary thread but it is opposite of the way the Patrick/Kevin/Jon thing played out.

 

But it wasn't just the pot shot to Patrick's mother that I found upsetting.  It's the way he said Patrick sounded just like his sister when he wanted to know if Jon knew about these "minor" sexual things he did while in a relationship with him.  Kevin didn't want to answer it so he tried to invalidate it by comparing Patrick's questions to Megan's harshness.  Or how he would say "it's complicated" to other questions in attempt to put off answering them. 

 

Heck, he even gave Patrick peanut butter on bread after Patrick said he didn't like peanut butter.  Just completely ignoring what Patrick had just said he didn't want. 

 

Kevin was manipulative as hell in this discussion/fight.  But that shouldn't be a surprise.  Last season ended with Kevin being manipulative as well with his fake work crisis.

 

Patrick is stupid if he thinks he is so special that he was the only one who turned Kevin's head away from Jon.

I think he was delusional but people in affairs so often are.  On the other hand, Kevin did turn down Patrick's initial overtures when they first met with a very succinct "I've got a boyfriend."  And he certainly didn't react as if this was a territory he has mined before considering how confused he was after the first time he and Patrick had sex. 

Oddly enough, I think Patrick was delusional to think that he'd actually get monogamy from Kevin.  Where I don't think he was delusional is expecting that the terms of their relationship would be monogamous.  And given the way Kevin avoided having the talk indicates that Kevin expected those would be the terms as well.  I do wonder when/if they ever would have had the conversation had Patrick not found Kevin on Grindr.  This would seem like something that should be discussed ahead of time.  Somehow, I don't believe it would have ever come up.  Kevin may not want to be completely monogamous but monogamists are certainly his type.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Irlandesa

[resonance]

I don't enjoy television tropes such as "end games" so I hope Patrick doesn't get back together with Richie. I like how the show left us off a bit unsettled but not exactly with a cliffhanger. If there's more to come, great. But if that was the series finale, the series could stand on its own.

 

Also, are there really sex orgy building communities like that IRL? If so, where could I sign up?

Edited March 23, 2015 by resonance

[bunnywithanaxe]

Kevin,you are one hot mess.

Is anybody else disturbed by Patrick adopting Kevin's hair style? Talk about Twincest.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Signs that you should reconsider your decision to move in with your new boyfriend:

(1) you admit that you aren't familiar with any of his stuff because you never saw his house because he was living with his boyfriend and cheating on him with you

(2) your boyfriend pretends he doesn't remember that you RSVPed to your friend's event

(3) when you remind your boyfriend about said event, he clearly doesn't want to go and even asks if he can skip it

(4) your boyfriend has a grindr account despite the fact that he went from one allegedly monogamous live in boyfriend/relationship to another (allegedly) monogamous live in boyfriend/relationship

(5) despite the fact that your new boyfriend lived with you for over a month after his boyfriend kicked him out, he still doesn't know that you hate peanut butter - after you specifically tell him that you don't like peanut butter, he makes you a peanut butter sandwich

(6) you have no idea if your boyfriend was unfaithful to his previous boyfriend before he cheated with you

(7) your boyfriend thinks that a hand job in the steam room at the gym isn't cheating and that a happy ending doesn't count as cheating

(8) your boyfriend then accuses you of being judgmental because he doesn't want to talk about the cheating that he doesn't consider cheating

(9) your boyfriend refers to hand jobs and happy endings as "little things"

(10) your boyfriend rationalizes that it was a good thing he cheated on his boyfriend because it means you two are now together

(11) after your boyfriend admits to hand jobs and happy endings that his previous boyfriend knew nothing about, he wants to have a discussion about how these things should be okay in your relationship too

(12) your boyfriend throws your mom's emotional infidelity in your face to point out that monogamy doesn't run in your family

(13) your boyfriend accuses you of "storming out" when you are already late to your friend's event

(14) your boyfriend then accuses you of blowing things out of proportion and being dishonest

(15) your boyfriend tries to come up with an imaginary scenario in which you would cheat on him so that he can feel justified in continuing to get hand jobs at the gym because a hand on your penis doesn't affect the way you feel about each other

(16) your boyfriend then interrupts you when you try to tell him why you want to monogamous

(17) your boyfriend accuses you of trying to sabotage your relationship because you want him to be monogamous

(18) your boyfriend gives you an ultimatum and tells you to make a choice tonight

(19) after confessing that he doesn't think that hand jobs are cheating, he asks you why monogamy is important and then tells you that you will have to trust him

(20) your reaction to this is to go see your ex-boyfriend

 

Love that Malik is trying to mend the relationship between Dom and Doris. That's a good boyfriend.

 

Kind of hilarious that Kevin is the one who likes peanut butter but Patrick hates it. To totally generalize, in my experience it's Americans who like peanut butter and British people who think it's weird.

Edited March 23, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Pete Martell]

I've been re-watching the first season of Queer as Folk, so I found myself comparing it with Looking as I watched tonight.  As much as I feel nostalgic love for QaF, Looking is so refreshing in comparison.  I'm sure part of it is that this is a current show and QaF doesn't hold up that great in a lot of ways, but when Patrick commented about the neighbor's party being full of only attractive white men, it really drove that feeling home.  

 

That type of meta moment never works for me, because it just feels self-conscious. Looking is mostly about white men, with the exception of Gus and a somewhat infrequently seen supporting character (Ritchie). Commenting on it makes it seem like the show doing damage control.

 

I think Looking is a much-better acted show than QAF was, and much less prone to bad melodrama, but the characters I liked, I liked a lot more than many on Looking. I also feel like Patrick is prone to many of the most annoying aspects of Michael's character (until they made Michael somewhat more tolerable after a few seasons).

 

I will say I'm relieved not to have to see any variations of Brian or Justin. Russell Davies seemed to have put them all over his new show, which I never really watched.

I don't enjoy television tropes such as "end games" so I hope Patrick doesn't get back together with Richie. I like how the show left us off a bit unsettled but not exactly with a cliffhanger. If there's more to come, great. But if that was the series finale, the series could stand on its own.

 

Also, are there really sex orgy building communities like that IRL? If so, where could I sign up?

 

If the show gets another season I hope they won't do Patrick/Richie. I never believed they would be happy in a relationship. Richie deserves better and Patrick needs to grow up and learn to accept himself. I still cringe at that all-Patrick/Richie episode where Patrick grinned and talked and grinned some more at the awesomeness of his own voice and was horribly patronizing toward Richie throughout. It's not really much of a strong partnership.

Edited March 23, 2015 by Pete Martell

[SimoneS]

I don't think that there is anything wrong with Kevin wanting an open relationship, but it does not look like he was planning to tell Patrick that. I don't get how they got to the point of living together without having that awkward "are we exclusive" conversation that every couple has as their relationship progresses. Also, Patrick should have been concerned that Kevin had unprotected sex with him while he was still with John which indicates reckless sexual behavior.

 

Having Patrick going to Richie for the hair cut, really? Could he have telegraphed any more loudly that he and Kevin were in trouble or done? If this show gets another pity season, I really hope that they intend to give Richie more focus. The story of a working class gay Latino man in LA has got to be more interesting that Patrick's WASP neuroses. I think that Jonathan Groff lacks charisma and is poor leading man.

 

I just re-watched QaF and posted about my thoughts in that forum. I will take the first two and a half seasons of QaF over the boredom that is Looking in a heartbeat. Even the music on Looking bores the shit out of me. At least QaF was entertaining until it went off the cliff. It did occur to me that Looking is basically that fake tv show, Gay as Blazes, that they mocked on QaF in season two. 

Edited March 23, 2015 by SimoneS

[shrewd.buddha]

This possibly last episode was mostly underwhelming : there were no real surprises. As soon as Patrick walked into the building and starting flipping out over the 'fob' thing and Kevin's belongings  the countdown clock started on his eventual meltdown. It's what Patrick does - his unsuccessful relationships are a self-fulfilling prophesy. 

 

It was somewhat surprising that Kevin chased Patrick through the building, trying to talk him off his emotional cliff. Kevin seems like the type that makes up his own rules of acceptable behavior, is very vague about actual events, and has to be grilled for specifics that only come out when he gets caught. 

But then Kevin acts as if he truly cares about Patrick, which is odd. But it was also odd that Kevin seemed to have no significant problems with Jon and always seemed affectionate with him when they were together. Poor writing? 

 

Just some thoughts about gay monogamy and this episode:

• Wouldn't Patrick and Kevin already have found each other on Grindr if they  both were using it at some point in the past? 
• Is it hypocritical for Patrick to have a problem with Kevin's 'infidelity' only when it involves him?
• Is Patrick's emotional infidelity with Richie -- basically setting up a relationship to jump to when things are over with Kevin -- any more moral than Kevin's occasional, random, anonymous hand-jobs? 
• They could have had a conversation about the problems of trying to have relationship that hinges entirely on physical sexual fidelity instead of Patrick saying crap like "Maybe we don't love each other the same way."
• Is Patrick capable of being content with anything or anyone? Or will he over-analyze everything to the point of self-destruction? 
• Where is the concept of 'relationships take work'?  Does Patrick expect to find some one that he is completely 100% in sync with? 
• Why did Patrick never ask what exactly was not working between Kevin and Jon? 
• Normally when people end relationships - either short or long - they have a more realistic outlook and a concept of what their deal-breaker issues are. Patrick and Kevin did not seem to learn anything from their past experiences. 

 

Augustin didn't really get much time for a season finale episode. 

 

Dom's reunion with Doris, with new ground rules, seemed like a nice way to leave them. But Dom's "doing it on my own" restaurant opening seemed a bit isolated and lonely. It seemed like the type of thing where his close friends - and their free labor - would come into play. 

Edited March 23, 2015 by shrewd.buddha

[Garnett7]

I'm convinced that Patrick has the IQ of Forrest Gump. So he's really just clueing in that "once a cheater. always a cheater"? That the guy who will cheat with you will also cheat on you? Did he honestly expect to be treated better than he himself treated Richie or Kevin treated Jon? That maybe you should get to know a person, have some hard conversations about what you want/need out of a relationship before moving in with them? This guy makes my brain hurt. And Kevin can zip it with his "I'll change" because he won't. He's hard-wired to cheat, he's shown it over and over again and that won't change about him.

 

Run, Richie! Run far, far away.

[DollEyes]

 I loved the finale. Looking's not "perfect," by any means, but at least it respects my intelligence way more than it insults it, unlike QAF (US), which did the exact opposite. Re Patrick & Kevin, I knew that things would implode between them way sooner than later, but this turned out even better than I expected. If any movie could describe the current state of things between Patrick & Kevin, it wouldn't be Field Of Dreams, it would be The Stepford Wives: a young couple move to a fancy new neighborhood, only to find that their new neighbors aren't what they seem-and, as it turns out, the spouse isn't what he seems, either. As for Patrick & Kevin's neighbors, I've seen Republican conventions on C-SPAN with more diversity than that crowd. As this episode proved, Patrick & Kevin have not only rushed things, I would say that Patrick has made what is arguably the biggest mistake of his life, but then again, since everything personal about his involvement with Kevin is a mistake, I'm not the least bit surprised. Patrick's having the sense to come in out of the rain is too much to ask most of the time. Patrick & Kevin's giving Agustin & Eddie's charity event the brushoff for the Gay Aryan Brotherhood is a metaphor for Patrick & Kevin if ever I've seen one. When Kevin told Patrick about wanting the kind of open relationship with Kevin that he didn't have with Jon, my first response was, in the words of The Simpsons' Nelson Munz, "Ha-Ha!" I never believed for a second that Kevin loved Patrick & this proves it. Kevin's still having a Grindr profile despite being with Patrick should've told Patrick wll he needs to know but deep down inside, Patrick didn't really want to know in the first place or else he would've asked a long time ago. About Kevin's accusing Patrick of wanting an easy way out of things during their fight, bullshit. IMO, if anyone's guilty of that, it's Kevin. To paraphrase what Scandal's Rowan Pope told Fitz about Rowan's daughter Olivia, Kevin loves that Patrick's a door marked "Exit." Patrick gave Kevin the perfect excuses not to act like a responsible adult, the CEO of a multi-million-dollar company nor a loyal boyfriend.

 

  Worse, Kevin said that he was glad  that he cheated on Jon because he got Patrick out of it. Talk about a downgrade. Like Patrick did to Richie, Kevin broke the heart of a good man who loved him for selfish reasons. If Patrick had even the tiniest lick of sense, he would've asked Kevin if he wanted an open relationship before moving in together, but since this is Patrick after all, that's a moot point. That Kevin offered Patrick peanut butter despite Patrick's hating it is yet another metaphor for them, this time that Kevin's gonna do what he wants whether Patrick likes it or not. Another metaphor is Patrick & Kevin's new mattress, which showed that Patrick & Kevin want different things and while Kevin claimed that he was willing to make changes, chances are that Patrick will be the only one making them and they'll be at his expense, which serves him right. Kevin's dragging Dana, Megan and even Richie into their fight should've raised a red flag, proving that Kevin's willing to hurt those he claims to love the most if it means getting his own way. Of course, Kevin did that when he cheated on Jon, so his taking cheap shots at Patrick's mama, his sister and his ex shouldn't have surprised Patrick. Two more red flags were Kevin's saying "trust me" and Patrick finding Richie's necklace. That Kevin urged Patrick to trust him despite all he already knows only shows that Patrick can't trust him. Re Patrick's getting involved with Kevin because he wanted to prove to everyone including himself that he was ready for a serious relationship, that's pride, not love. About Patrick's having his epiphany after finding the necklace and running back to Richie, Patrick may finally know what he wants in a relationship, but that doesn't mean he's ready to get it. That said, I thought the last scene with Richie was sweet. As for Richie's being "judgmental" sometimes, he's only done that to people who deserved it. I had no problem with Richie's judging Patrick, Kevin nor Agustin because he was right on all counts. Richie's telling Patrick in "Looking For Truth" that he still wanted to be friends with him in spite of what he's done is more proof of how much better he is than Kevin will ever be. Richie deserves to be with a great guy, but at this point, Patrick's not him and probably never will be.

Edited March 23, 2015 by DollEyes

[bilgistic]

As a heterosexual female, I found the writing to be universal because I felt secondhand nausea for Patrick, being so able to relate based upon my own experience. He was foolish to move so quickly with Kevin, but he wanted it to be what it could have been, not what it was. There's not much you can do when your "partner" has a different definition of your relationship than you do. Just move the hell on--the sooner the better.

[blackCatCollins]

 

Love that Malik is trying to mend the relationship between Dom and Doris. That's a good boyfriend.

 

Kind of hilarious that Kevin is the one who likes peanut butter but Patrick hates it. To totally generalize, in my experience it's Americans who like peanut butter and British people who think it's weird.

 

^ This. All my British friends HATE peanut butter and make fun of how much i eat it. And in the shallow end of the pool- Mailk in that suit was 8 different kinds of hot. 

 

that fight in the hall/elevator made me so uncomfortable, mostly because i've had a similar fight with an ex. and as douchey as Kevin was, and as much as i disagree with his main point, he wasn't entirely wrong about Patrick and i'm glad someone finally pointed out that he wasn't the innocent he likes to act like. 

Edited March 24, 2015 by blackCatCollins

[MizStaken]

See, I'm conflicted here. While i think that Patrick and Kevin should have discussed what they saw in this relationship ahead of moving in together, the fact that the conversation is happening at this time is a good thing, before something happens and things get really ugly. Kevin has cheated  on his boyfriend, how much or how often we don't know, that doesn't necessarily make him an awful person or to a degree, a bad boyfriend. From all appearances, he and Jon had a seemingly ideal relationship, and the only reason they aren't still together is because of Patrick. Kevin did a huge thing by getting out of that relationship because he had feelings for Patrick, feelings that I think are real and more than just sex. I totally get that he loves Patrick and wants to be with him and to some degree, may be willing and open to change. Stranger things can happen.  He seemed to be trying very hard to make Patrick understand that he wanted to be with him. He didn't give up and just let Patrick walk away and I think that shows someone who is at least willing to try and make a real go of things.  (don't hate me here). I don't think you throw your whole world off kilter for someone that you don't see as more than a casual fling, at least the optimist in me hopes so. 

 

Then there's the part of me that thinks that if someone cheated on someone else to be with you, what's then to stop them from cheating on you. Or what's to stop yourself from going crazy thinking about when it's going to happen to you. So there's that   . . . 

 

Think they could have included the rest of the cast a bit more. Sorry to see Dom and Doris part ways, as it were. Was still hoping against hope that Lynn would be back but i guess that ship has sailed down to New Orleans. I do hope this show can come back for at least one more season but i'm not holding my breath. 

[kieyra]

I completely understand a lot of the objections/issues with this show and the way certain relationships are portrayed, but Kevin and Patrick still get me right in the gut. I don't know if it's actor chemistry, or the fact that I was sure Kevin was just using Patrick for so long, so when he seems to be professing real feelings (wanting to grow old together) it still catches me off guard ... or maybe it's simply the novelty factor for a straight female viewer. And I guess either way Russell Tovey is killing it, and I think he's elevating Groff's perfomance too.

Hmm, didn't realize this was the season finale. I guess Agustin got a kind of flat trajectory this season, but the character needed some rehab, and presumably they'll throw higher stakes at him next season. And despite the lengthy Kevin and Patrick screen time this episode, I never got bored with them.

Edited March 24, 2015 by kieyra

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Kevin has cheated on his boyfriend, how much or how often we don't know, that doesn't necessarily make him an awful person or to a degree, a bad boyfriend. From all appearances, he and Jon had a seemingly ideal relationship, and the only reason they aren't still together is because of Patrick.

My issue is that Kevin was a bad boyfriend to Jon because of all the hand jobs at the gym, the happy endings at the massage place, and having sex with Patrick, all of which Kevin did behind Jon's back. Patrick point blank asked Kevin if he and Jon had "an understanding" that made the hand jobs and happy endings okay with Jon and Kevin said no. Patrick asked Kevin if Jon knew that Kevin was getting hand jobs and happy endings. Kevin said no.

Lying/withholding information about things like that does make him a bad boyfriend. If Kevin and Jon had discussed it and said hand jobs and happy ending were acceptable then I would have no problem with Kevin doing either. Being aware of the relationship boundaries and agreeing to them is the key.

But if you haven't mutually agreed to these terms and one of you is doing these things but hiding these extracurricular activities (and let's be honest - cheaters hide their actions because they don't want to get in trouble), then to me that's being a bad boyfriend because you are choosing to do something that you know will hurt the other person and sneaking around to avoid getting caught. That's not what I consider an ideal relationship.

[Irlandesa]

But then Kevin acts as if he truly cares about Patrick, which is odd. But it was also odd that Kevin seemed to have no significant problems with Jon and always seemed affectionate with him when they were together. Poor writing?

Not poor writing.  Accurate writing. For Kevin, a hand job from a masseuse or some random guy at the gym is no more intimate than using a vibrator or a dildo.  Therefore, it wouldn't interfere with any genuine feelings he has for Patrick or Jon.  As for the Jon/Kevin relationship, we know so little about it.  There could have been real issues.  Or it could have been a situation where Kevin had the 2/3 year itch when the initial highs of a new relationship start to wane and that happened at the same time that Patrick was giving him those highs as a potential new beau. 

 Is it hypocritical for Patrick to have a problem with Kevin's 'infidelity' only when it involves him?

I don't know if I'd use the word hypocritical.  Maybe self-serving?  And he did eventually get uncomfortable with the affair.  But I don't think it matters. I don't think you're stuck to the sins of the past.  Just because they began as an affair doesn't mean Patrick has to settle into accepting that his partner has other dalliances.

 

Is Patrick's emotional infidelity with Richie -- basically setting up a relationship to jump to when things are over with Kevin -- any more moral than Kevin's occasional, random, anonymous hand-jobs?

I don't think that's what's happening.  I don't even think either of them see that as a real possibility.  I think they may have lingering feelings for one another but nothing Patrick has done or revealed over the course of the past few months suggests that Richie should change his mind about  being with him.

   

They could have had a conversation about the problems of trying to have relationship that hinges entirely on physical sexual fidelity instead of Patrick saying crap like "Maybe we don't love each other the same way."

He said maybe their hearts work in different ways. I took that to mean that Kevin can do sexual acts with random men and not change how he feels about his partner.  For someone like Patrick, those sexual acts feel like more intimate experiences. If you look at his history on the show, Richie was supposed to be his fuck buddy but it turned into a relationship.  Kevin was supposed to be a non-committed affair and that turned into something more substantial.  Patrick, for all his attempts to do meaningless casual sex, he hasn't managed to pull that off.  And that's what's different about them and about what commitment means to them.

  

Where is the concept of 'relationships take work'?  Does Patrick expect to find some one that he is completely 100% in sync with?

There is "relationships take work" and then there's "we want fundamentally different things out of a relationship."  These two aren't married.  They're not past the point of no return in their relationship. I think the longer you're in a relationship, the more work you're willing to do on it.  But it's been a month?  A month and a half?  since they've been in a public relationship.  Just how much work is that relationship worth?    

 

 As for Richie's being "judgmental" sometimes, he's only done that to people who deserved it. I had no problem with Richie's judging Patrick, Kevin nor Agustin because he was right on all counts.

My pet peeve about Richie being called judgmental is that every single character on this show has judged.  Every single one.  The Kevin and Patrick fight was full of judgment.  Dom was judgmental to Doris last week.  Doris was judgmental of Dom's decisions in Season 1.  Judgment--or having an opinion. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

[fastiller]

Then there's the part of me that thinks that if someone cheated on someone else to be with you, what's then to stop them from cheating on you. Or what's to stop yourself from going crazy thinking about when it's going to happen to you. So there's that   . . . 

 

 

If they do it with you, they'll do it to you.

[sugarbaker design]

I guess Agustin got a kind of flat trajectory this season, but the character needed some rehab, and presumably they'll throw higher stakes at him next season.

 

 

Flat trajectory?  Agustin went from least likable regular character to most likeable regular character in 10 episodes!

Edited March 24, 2015 by sugarbaker design

[bobbyjoe]

I'm convinced that Patrick has the IQ of Forrest Gump. So he's really just clueing in that "once a cheater. always a cheater"? That the guy who will cheat with you will also cheat on you? Did he honestly expect to be treated better than he himself treated Richie or Kevin treated Jon?

 

Patrick isn't Little Mr. Innocent here, either.  He knew full well he was sleeping with someone who was in another relationship.  He's not just with a former cheater, he helped that guy cheat.  So playing all surprised that Kevin's gonna want an open relationship is either ridiculously naive or entirely self-serving (aka every time Patrick ends up in an actual relationship, he immediately starts to sabotage it, or, as Kevin says, look for the exit sign).

 

Patrick's also a huge hypocrite.  You don't go on and on about how scared you are that your new boyfriend might get a handjob at the gym and then immediately go running straight to the guy (Richie) you have a huge emotional crush on and attachment to, even if its just for a haircut. 

 

My only question here is who cheats first, Patrick or Kevin?  And though cheating is bad either way, if Patrick starts to hang out with Richie a lot behind Kevin's back, that's actually a lot more potentially dangerous of a betrayal than getting an anonymous tug in a locker room.  Kevin's not likely to run off with a causal hookup, but Patrick sure has the potential to do longtime emotional wreckage by running off with Richie, 'cause that's gonna be telling someone "I don't love you, I love someone else," which is far crueler than "I got horny and made a mistake at the gym."

Edited March 24, 2015 by bobbyjoe

[vixenbynight]

It is far crueler, but I never thought that Patrick was in love with Kevin.

He loved that Kevin was the one, who professed love to him and chose him, over being with Jon.

He loved, that he had a guy, waiting for him, on his stoop, saying that there was something really great about him, that made them crazy for him.

[Garnett7]

 

It is far crueler, but I never thought that Patrick was in love with Kevin.

 

Absolutely! I think Patrick said it in his bad anology of them to the bed. By outwards appearances, it looks perfect. He thought Kevin would be the "perfect" guy for him. They had the same career. Kevin was all nice and WASPy like Patrick and his family. The sex was good. It all looked perfect at first glance. Not so much when you dig deeper. Paddy is realizing how very little he knows Kevin and seeing just how different they are in their views on love and relationships. I'm not sure you can truly love a person you don't really know. Love your idea of them, sure, but not them.

 

I'll also say that I don't believe Kevin is in love with Patrick either. I know Kevin said some nice, pretty, flowery words of love to Patrick but the whole time he was also telling Jon he loved him. While Jon was out of town, he stayed at Patrick's, hung out with him, slept with him, whispered his sweet nothings and the second he thought Patrick was asleep, he snuck off to call Jon and tell Jon he "loved" him. How Patrick could then hear the same words from Kevin's mouth and not think about that night is beyond me.

[Irlandesa]

I feel like I have to take a stand against this notion that getting a hair cut from an ex is worse than a sexual act from a stranger.  I do not agree.  I mean, I do agree that if Patrick is still with Kevin* and starts taking long walks on the beach with Richie, then yes what he'd do is crueler.  But a hair cut?  During which he remained silent?  No. I feel that's false equivalency. 

 

I was almost half impressed with Patrick in that hair cut scene.  For once, he didn't pile his emotional shit on Richie like he has been doing all season.  I think he needed to do something to signal change.  Women do it with hair cuts all the time.  And he wanted to be around someone he trusted.  There was a shared history there and I'm sure Richie could tell something was up but it's up to Patrick to decide the next steps he's taking his life.  Not Richie.

 

*I think it's a big if.  I think Patrick had too many realizations about how they want different things from life, about his insecurity and about their lack of trust for him to stay.

[SFoster21]

I feel like I have to take a stand against this notion that getting a hair cut from an ex is worse than a sexual act from a stranger. I do not agree. I mean, I do agree that if Patrick is still with Kevin* and starts taking long walks on the beach with Richie, then yes what he'd do is crueler. But a hair cut? During which he remained silent? No. I feel that's false equivalency.

I was almost half impressed with Patrick in that hair cut scene. For once, he didn't pile his emotional shit on Richie like he has been doing all season. I think he needed to do something to signal change. Women do it with hair cuts all the time. And he wanted to be around someone he trusted. There was a shared history there and I'm sure Richie could tell something was up but it's up to Patrick to decide the next steps he's taking his life. Not Richie.

*I think it's a big if. I think Patrick had too many realizations about how they want different things from life, about his insecurity and about their lack of trust for him to stay.

And, on a shallow note, a good hairdresser is hard to find! When I re-located, it took a year or so for me to find mine and I've stayed faithful for 30 years. You don't want just anybody doing your hair, imo.

[Irlandesa]

Reportedly a friend of Jon's posted on Facebook that HBO cancelled the series but will let them film a wrap-up movie.  This greatly disappoints me. I think they deserved a "Getting On" type third and done season. 

 

Although I am glad that they are letting the creators tell just a little bit more story

[DollEyes]

 

My pet peeve about Richie being called "judgmental" is that every single character has judged. Every single one. The Kevin and Patrick fight was full of judgment. Dom was judgmental to Doris last week. Doris was judgmental of Dom's decisions in season 1. Judgment--or having an opinion.

 

  Exactly. Every character, lead and supporting, has been judgmental, whether it was Dom's judging Doris (and vice versa), Agustin's judging Richie, Frank and Eddie's judging Agustin or Megan's judging Patrick & their mom. Richie's not the only guilty party by a long shot. Patrick & Kevin judged each other's views on relationships, which didn't surprise me. My question is, WTF did they, especially Patrick, expect? Given how things started between them, Patrick should have known that Kevin's views on monogamy were ambivalent, at best. Kevin didn't do Patrick any favors dropping the bomb about swapping partners the way he did nor when he did, moments before he & Patrick were supposed to go to the unveiling of the mural at the homeless shelter. Kevin's picking the fight with Patrick just before they were supposed to go to the reception, his taking potshots at Patrick's family & Richie and his giving Patrick an ultimatum were all bitch moves on Kevin's part. Kevin's bringing up Patrick's hypocrisy was one thing; making him stand up his friends, taking cheap shots at those he loves and making veiled threats are another. BTW, Kevin, your life wasn't "upturned," contrary to your opinion. At least you and Patrick had choices in the matter; Jon, otoh, not so much. Between the cheating/aftermath, their moving way too fast, their different views on relationships, isolating Patrick from his friends, their new neighbors giving "White party" a whole new meaning and the fight, Patrick & Kevin were doomed from the start and Kevin's asking Patrick to trust him when there are too many reasons why he shouldn't is just the nail in the coffin.

 

  As for Patrick's going to Richie for a haircut, I don't consider it "cheating." If Patrick had tried to seduce Richie, then it would've been, but Patrick & Richie are friends now and Richie's with Brady, so it's completely different.

 

 

Is anybody else disturbed by Patrick's adopting Kevin's hairstyle? Talk about Twincest.

 

  I disagree. Kevin's hair is longer on the top; Patrick got a full-fledged buzzcut.

 

  I heart Malik! He's everything that Kevin's not-he's mature, smart, honest and doesn't try to keep Doris from her friends. He looks great in a suit too. He's a keeper. Dom & Doris' scene was beautiful. They said what needed to be said in a mature and thoughtful way. The finally realized that, like I said in last week's episode thread, that their friendship doesn't need to end, just evolve.  

Edited March 28, 2015 by DollEyes

[DollEyes]

  I'm saddened, but not surprised, by the cancellation. When the programming monkeys took a week off because of the Super Bowl and scheduled an episode opposite the Oscars, the writing was on the wall. If they knew their audience, they would've done the exact opposite.

 

  Since there's going to be a wrap-up movie, here's what I'd like to see:

 

*Patrick & Kevin break up.

*Dom & Lynn make up. 

*Agustin getting a promotion, his own place and is still with Eddie.

*Malik & Doris getting married.

*Patrick going solo for a while and if he & Richie do get back together, that they take things very slowly, so Patrick doesn't make the same mistakes with Richie that he did with Kevin. 

Edited March 25, 2015 by DollEyes

[Garnett7]

Sad but not really surpising news. I just hope HBO does give them a wrap up flim (I believe "Deadwood" fans got promised the same but it never happened).

 

My main wish for an ending would be for Lynn to return and ask Dom for a second chance, one that he is fully committed to this time.

 

I'm also fine with seeing Kevin deported, Patrick moving to another planet and Richie finding a good, decent man. (I don't think Brady is really right for him.)

[JasmineFlower]

Here's an article about the cancellation and future special.

 

http://deadline.com/2015/03/looking-cancelled-two-seasons-finale-special-no-season-3-1201398440/

[resonance]

  I'm saddened, but not surprised, by the cancellation. When the programming monkeys took a week off because of the Super Bowl and scheduled an episode opposite the Oscars, the writing was on the wall. If they knew their audience, they would've done the exact opposite.

 

  Since there's going to be a wrap-up movie, here's what I'd like to see:

 

*Patrick & Kevin break up.

*Dom & Lynn make up. 

*Agustin getting a promotion, his own place and is still with Eddie.

*Malik & Doris getting married.

*Patrick going solo for a while and if he & Richie do get back together, that they take things very slowly, so Patrick doesn't make the same mistakes with Richie that he did with Kevin. 

I'm actually rather indifferent toward the cancellation despite somewhat enjoying the show.

 

I'm #TeamKevin all the way so I'll be happy where we left off: Patrick in an unhappy relationship with Kevin. 

[vixenbynight]

I feel like I have to take a stand against this notion that getting a hair cut from an ex is worse than a sexual act from a stranger. I do not agree. I mean, I do agree that if Patrick is still with Kevin* and starts taking long walks on the beach with Richie, then yes what he'd do is crueler. But a hair cut? During which he remained silent? No. I feel that's false equivalency.

I was almost half impressed with Patrick in that hair cut scene. For once, he didn't pile his emotional shit on Richie like he has been doing all season. I think he needed to do something to signal change. Women do it with hair cuts all the time. And he wanted to be around someone he trusted. There was a shared history there and I'm sure Richie could tell something was up but it's up to Patrick to decide the next steps he's taking his life. Not Richie.

*I think it's a big if. I think Patrick had too many realizations about how they want different things from life, about his insecurity and about their lack of trust for him to stay.

If TPTB get the funding for the wrap up tv movie, we'll get to see what happens.

[vixenbynight]

Sad but not really surpising news. I just hope HBO does give them a wrap up flim (I believe "Deadwood" fans got promised the same but it never happened).

My main wish for an ending would be for Lynn to return and ask Dom for a second chance, one that he is fully committed to this time.

I'm also fine with seeing Kevin deported, Patrick moving to another planet and Richie finding a good, decent man. (I don't think Brady is really right for him.)

Haha.

I don't think that's going to happen.

What I do predict, is if the tv movie gets funded and filmed, we'll have viewers, watching it, complaining about it being "boring and about nothing".

[marsha]

Haha.

I don't think that's going to happen.

What I do predict, is if the tv movie gets funded and filmed, we'll have viewers, watching it, complaining about it being "boring and about nothing".

vixenbynight, I'd be willing to bet cold, hard cash on that!

 

I'm fine with the show just being over, as is. One can just read into it what one would like to by the way the show ended. The one thing I tend not to like about 'wrap-up' seasons or special one-off movies is that they try to tie up all the dangling story lines and characters lives in a bow ... which, you know, is kind of the opposite of life.

[SimoneS]

It is really too bad that they wasted to the opportunity to tell entertaining stories about the lives of gay men. Instead of a pretentious boring drama, they should have gone for a ballsy soap opera. I thought the finale ended the show at a good point. We'll see how the movie goes if they are able to pull it off.

 

ETA: Next time cast a more charismatic leading man.

Edited March 25, 2015 by SimoneS

[romantic idiot]

Next time exploit the Patrick / Kevin chemistry instead of ending on a downer. Killed all the interest I had in the movie.

 

ETA: Though of course it is Jon so I daresay will watch it anyway.

Edited March 25, 2015 by romantic idiot

[Fisher King]

This sucks.

HBO used to stand for unique, daring, honest and in-your-face programming - ratings be damned.  Sure this show had some flaws - there aren't many shows that DON'T. With a little more creative input, Looking would have set a precedence for which HBO was once reknowned.

I wouldn't have minded sitting through more wreckless Patrick, horndog Kevin, pouty Ritchie, needy Dom, funny Doris, charming Brady, delightful Eddie, the return of Bakula and a slew of new characters for a few more seasons.  Even Agustin was wiser and more likeable this season. And any show that can make Julia Duffy not portray an almost always insufferable bitch is okay in my book.

Every character had loathesome moments but also had tender and real ones--however fleeting. The potential has always been there for redemptive and meaningful story arcs. I will watch the scraps of an extended farewell episode but probably through clinched teeth.

.

HBO dropped the ball here....yet again.  I have no doubt that if this had produced by Showtime, we would be looking forward to more of this show.

 

Dexter notwithstanding.

[Irlandesa]

Sad but not really surpising news. I just hope HBO does give them a wrap up flim (I believe "Deadwood" fans got promised the same but it never happened).

There is some confusion as to why the Deadwood movies didn't pan out.  Some blame HBO because it'd be too expensive to recreate the set.  There were also rumblings that Milch had moved on (Jon in Cincinnati) or didn't think a movies series was enough.  Either way, this isn't a Deadwood situation.  HBO followed through on making a Hello Ladies movie after canceling it after 1 season.  So unless the creators decide a movie isn't enough, I'm pretty sure we'll get this.

 

I'm #TeamKevin all the way so I'll be happy where we left off: Patrick in an unhappy relationship with Kevin. 

Ah.  Is this dress white and gold or blue and black?  I think he's single. Mainly because I've always believed that was his end game. Single but figuring out more about himself through his failures.  But maybe with the movie, having him be in an unhappy relationship is how they'll keep Tovey in the picture.

 

I'm fine with the show just being over, as is. One can just read into it what one would like to by the way the show ended. The one thing I tend not to like about 'wrap-up' seasons or special one-off movies is that they try to tie up all the dangling story lines and characters lives in a bow ... which, you know, is kind of the opposite of life.

The previous work of the creators has a very European feel to it and avoids bows.  I think some things may be wrapped up but I don't think every character will get a happily ever after.  (Although I do think Malik and Doris and Augie/Eddie are probably pretty safe. Giving them trouble would likely eat too much of the 90 minutes.)

 

 

HBO dropped the ball here....yet again.  I have no doubt that if this had produced by Showtime, we would be looking forward to more of this show.

 

Dexter notwithstanding.

Showtime interferes with its shows, usually to not-so-good results.  I can't think of one Showtime series I watched that didn't get worse after a great first season.

[Irlandesa]

If TPTB get the funding for the wrap up tv movie, we'll get to see what happens.

Yeah.  But there is some fun in speculating.  It reminds me of the Ugly Betty finale where that ending was debated forever. 

 

But if they didn't break up, then the hair cut doesn't symbolize much....and they ended their season with a hair cut.  Not a symbolic hair cut but a plain old hair cut.  And I'd find that as hilarious for a season finale as I found Law & Order's infamous, "is this because I'm a lesbian?" season finale.

[Fisher King]

I totally understand, Irlandesa, and mostly agree.  I'm thinking Episodes and Shameless have been quite consistent in theme and creativity. Showtime does have a bad rep in wearing their series to an embarrassing scrap of what made it draw viewers initially. I thought Brotherhood had some good intentions but lost its way. And don't even get me started on Queer as Folk. The thumpa-thumpa can still kiss my ass.

[Irlandesa]

That explains it.  My experience with Showtime has been Masters of Sex, Dexter and Homeland. 

[Surrealist]

I'm actually rather indifferent toward the cancellation despite somewhat enjoying the show.

 

I'm a little bummed about the cancellation because I felt as if the show was finally picking up some speed. That said I'm not shocked by the cancellation.

 

 

I'm also fine with seeing Kevin deported, Patrick moving to another planet and Richie finding a good, decent man. (I don't think Brady is really right for him.)

 

This made me laugh.

[vixenbynight]

Jonathan and Michael on Spoiler Alert, talking about the season two finale and what (at the time) they would like to develop for season three.

http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/spoiler-alert-finales-empire-looking-girls-glee/550219522b8c2ac29d0003ce

[DollEyes]

 

I'm #TeamKevin all the way so I'll be happy where we left off: Patrick in an unhappy relationship with Kevin.

 

Seeing Patrick stuck with a man he can't trust and constantly whining about it isn't my idea of "Must-see TV." 

 

 

It really is too bad they wasted the opportunity to tell entertaining stories about the lives of gay men. Instead of a pretentious boring drama, they should have gone for a ballsy soap opera.

 

  One QAF (US) was enough.  It may have been around than Looking, but the longer it lasted, the worse it got. No thanks. I prefer shows like Looking that spent much more time respecting my intelligence than insulting it. 

 

 

Next time exploit the Patrick/Kevin chemistry instead of ending it on a downer.

 

  I respectfully disagree. It was exploited from the start and it ultimately became the epic fail I expected it to be and richly deserved to be, so good riddance, I say. 

 

 

 

I'm fine with the show just being over, as is. One can just read into it what they like by the way the show ended. The one thing I tend not to like about wrap-up seasons or special one-off movies is that they tend to tie up all the dangling story lines and characters lives in a bow...which is kind of the opposite of life. 

 

  Not necessarily, re the last point. While some parts of life can be/are messy, other times they aren't. Kids grow up, people fall in love, get married/divorced, they start families, they (usually) get old, get sick and die, which are also parts of life. Whether TPTB choose to leave some storylines hanging but finish others or wrap them all up, it's fine with me. 

Edited March 26, 2015 by DollEyes

[resonance]

Seeing Patrick stuck with a man he can't trust and constantly whining about it isn't my idea of "Must-see TV." 

For me, it was a moving event. Despite their arguing, Kevin professing his love for Patrick and following him out the apartment was one of the most true-to-life romantic moments on television.

 

I don't mind that their relationship is not perfect. No relationship is and I wouldn't want Looking to end conventionally by pitting Patrick with a perfect boyfriend, anyway. The season finale kind of follows the tone of the show and is what it is about.

 

I actually fear that the movie won't sustain the integrity of the show if it materializes. Looking is such a slow paced show it wouldn't make sense to write a grand epilogue and tie it up in one or two hours. Maybe it'll be as what Irlandesa said and Patrick will end up alone.

Edited March 26, 2015 by resonance

[SimoneS]

 One QAF (US) was enough.  It may have been around than Looking, but the longer it lasted, the worse it got. No thanks. I prefer shows like Looking that spent much more time respecting my intelligence than insulting it. 

 

Boring shows like Looking don't stay on the air long so you won't have worry about your intelligence being respected much. Frankly, I did not consider the two season obsession with Patrick's WASP romantic problems to remotely interesting or respectful, but if it was entertaining, I would have less critical and bored. Hopefully, the next producers who create a gay themed show actually come up with something entertaining that a large number people actually want to watch instead of squandering the opportunity. I will leave it there because I don't think  this show is not even worth any more thought or attention.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

And, on a shallow note, a good hairdresser is hard to find! When I re-located, it took a year or so for me to find mine and I've stayed faithful for 30 years. You don't want just anybody doing your hair, imo.

My best friend lost her hairdresser right around the time that I lost my massage therapist (they both moved to other cities) so we were both trying out new ones at the same time. I told people that it was like dating because a lot of it is about compatibility, and you know when you find the right one but until then you have to spend a lot of time and money trying out new people. I felt like I had it easier because if I tried a new massage therapist and it didn't work out, I was out the money but that was it. Meanwhile my friend was getting some terrible haircuts and she had to wait for them to grow out.

[SFoster21]

I feel her pain.

[Irlandesa]

I don't mind that their relationship is not perfect. No relationship is and I wouldn't want Looking to end conventionally by pitting Patrick with a perfect boyfriend, anyway. The season finale kind of follows the tone of the show and is what it is about.

It was a very real fight.  But the whole argument in defense of the Patrick & Kevin affair and Kevin leaving Jon was that Kevin and Jon were in an unhappy relationship. 

 

Now Patrick has learned something about how Kevin operates in a relationship which would likely make him unhappy and he should stick it out because no relationship is perfect?  

[romantic idiot]

Well for me the reason why P / K were together is because Kevin  fell in love with Patrick and that hasn't changed that I could see...