S03.E06: Off Brand

[ghoulina]

24 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Philly police officers in his era were eligible for retirement after 20 years service.

But we don't know when he started. I suppose he could have kept working even after he was eligible. But he left town rather quickly, so I just am not sure he'd be taking advantage of a pension. He likely wanted to distance himself from the force, but who knows. 

[Bryce Lynch]

2 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

But we don't know when he started. I suppose he could have kept working even after he was eligible. But he left town rather quickly, so I just am not sure he'd be taking advantage of a pension. He likely wanted to distance himself from the force, but who knows. 

Mike is pretty old, so unless he got a very, late start as a police officer, he almost certainly did at least 20 years.  He was apparently a Marine sniper in Vietnam, who shot an original M40, with a wooden stock.  Those were introduced in 1966 and refitted with fiberglass stocks in the in the early 1970s.  So, that would give an approximate date range of when Mike served.  Assuming he went straight from the Marine Corps into the police department, which I believe was common, he would have had about 30 years on the Philly PD.  

[PeterPirate]

Mike retired a week after his son was killed.

I like Stacy, but she's a Mob Daughter-in-Law. She knows/doesn't know where the money is coming from.  Which isn't that bad unless you consider that her late husband would have not approved.

Edited May 16, 2017 by PeterPirate

[Bannon]

12 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

But we don't know when he started. I suppose he could have kept working even after he was eligible. But he left town rather quickly, so I just am not sure he'd be taking advantage of a pension. He likely wanted to distance himself from the force, but who knows. 

He very likely had a considerable number of sick days/vcation days built up, which was quite common for officers in PDs of major cities in that day. It was quite common for them to take up to 12 months in vacation and sick days before they even began drawing on their pensions. It's one reason why the finances of so many major cities are in such a mess today.

[Bryce Lynch]

2 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

Mike retired a week after his son was killed.

I like Stacy, but she's a Mob Daughter-in-Law. She knows/doesn't know where the money is coming from.  Which isn't that bad unless you consider that her late husband would have not approved.

I'm not so sure Stacey knows where it comes from.  She seems almost too flustered to even think about where it comes from.  I could see her asking questions at some point in the future when she gets more settled and can really think clearly. 

 While somebody made a good point about knowing that Mike had been a crooked cop, she might assume he is done with that sort of thing because a) I believe the way he described it, all the cops in the precinct were expected to be on the take, so it wasn't as though he went out looking for bribes.  His son got swept up in it in a similar manner. b) As broken up and guilty he was over his son's death, she might assume he would want nothing more to do with that sort of corruption and illegal activity.  

[Bannon]

2 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I'm not so sure Stacey knows where it comes from.  She seems almost too flustered to even think about where it comes from.  I could see her asking questions at some point in the future when she gets more settled and can really think clearly. 

 While somebody made a good point about knowing that Mike had been a crooked cop, she might assume he is done with that sort of thing because a) I believe the way he described it, all the cops in the precinct were expected to be on the take, so it wasn't as though he went out looking for bribes.  His son got swept up in it in a similar manner. b) As broken up and guilty he was over his son's death, she might assume he would want nothing more to do with that sort of corruption and illegal activity.  

All the planning Mike did was no match for the IRS/Treasury Department in the end; he really never figured out a way to funnel the cash to Stacy/Kaylee without implicating them. Walt figured out a way to get it done from the grave, of course. Not everybody has billionaire ex business partners, who are fairly easy to physically intimidate, however.

[PeterPirate]

Stacy asked Mike if it was OK if she spent the first 5 grand she found. She knew that it was dirty money. 

She might not ask whether the money she's getting from Mike is new dirty money, or old dirty money that Mike brought with him from Philly. She might not really address the issue in her mind. But I don't think she's vapid enough to consciously believe the money is clean.  

[scenario]

4 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

Stacy asked Mike if it was OK if she spent the first 5 grand she found. She knew that it was dirty money. 

She might not ask whether the money she's getting from Mike is new dirty money, or old dirty money that Mike brought with him from Philly. She might not really address the issue in her mind. But I don't think she's vapid enough to consciously believe the money is clean.  

If her honest husband was given 5 grand to keep silent, how much money must her FIL stacked away? She assumes he's got a lot of money and works because he's too careful to let the cops know he doesn't need to. 

[Bryce Lynch]

23 minutes ago, Bannon said:

All the planning Mike did was no match for the IRS/Treasury Department in the end; he really never figured out a way to funnel the cash to Stacy/Kaylee without implicating them. Walt figured out a way to get it done from the grave, of course. Not everybody has billionaire ex business partners, who are fairly easy to physically intimidate, however.

I'm not sure whether Kaylee would have been able to spend it, when she grew up,  without raising red flags (unless maybe she invested it in a laser tag place), but the IRS/Treasury Department had no idea he had put $2 million away for her, twice.

The first time, was because the police/DEA lucked out when Walt, Mike and Jesse fried Gus's laptop, in the police evidence room, ("Yeah bitch, magnets! Oh!") and inadvertently broke the picture frame with the offshore bank account numbers hidden behind the photo of Gus and Schuler.  If not for that, they may never have discovered Kaylee's $2 million in the Caymans.  

The second time, Hank, on a hunch, had Gomie tail  Mike's lawyer, who was putting the hazard pay and Kaylee's cash into the safe deposit boxes.  

Edited May 16, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[Knuckles]

i do want to say that though Tara may or may not be a crackpot, I am loving this show. I feel that it has real traction now, and the slow build-up is paying off.

I loved seeing Gus look over the site of the future meth lab/laundry op, and that Lydia was his partner was a great payoff.

Even a frightened Crazy 8 was fun...before he became the hardened dealer who tried to kill Walk in Jesse's basement. i was so entranced with the world of BB, that seeing all these stories and characters begin to interact is very satisfying...but it is Odenkirk who is making this happen. I am loving Jimmy/Gene/Saul.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

When Stacy said that Kaylee wanted to have her mother talk about what her father had done for career day at school, I thought she was going to ask Mike to fill in, as he had shared the same job, which would just about kill him.

[shapeshifter]

9 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I think people are being very unfair to Rebecca.  She wasn't "MIA".  She and Chuck were divorced and she had no idea about his mental illness until earlier that day.  The fact that she would fly in to be there for him and then go to his house and knock on the door for an hour is admirable.  My ex-wife wouldn't cross the street to spit on me. :)

Sure, she doesn't get how much Chuck has hurt Jimmy, she is right that you don't abandon a mentally ill relative because he hurt your feelings.  

It seemed to me that she only wanted Jimmy to help her get Chuck to let her in.

"Only wanted Jimmy to help her get Chuck to let her in"??!!??? 
"Only?!"
I'm with Jimmy on this one. What did he reply? Something about how his door breaking days were over for the next 12 months.
@Bryce Lynch, I will still give a lot of your posts hearts, but put me on the list of women who wouldn't cross the street to say hey. Heh.
Or maybe you were just being sarcastic?
But I'm glad you brought this up. Howard tells Chuck that likely Jimmy will break the law in the next 12 months and then never practice again. Nice Jimmy would have let Rebecca talk him into it, or at least say, "I'd really like to help, but . . ."
But no more Mr. [Fake] Nice Guy.
And Saul is born.

 

Stacey's belief in bullet holes (that we see are only thumping newspapers) is equivalent to Chuck's belief in his allergic reaction to electricity. 

And we get to see the introduction of Tamara Tunie.

[Bannon]

28 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I'm not sure whether Kaylee would have been able to spend it, when she grew up,  without raising red flags (unless maybe she invested it in a laser tag place), but the IRS/Treasury Department had no idea he had put $2 million away for her, twice.

The first time, was because the police/DEA lucked out when Walt, Mike and Jesse fried Gus's laptop, in the police evidence room, ("Yeah bitch, magnets! Oh!") and inadvertently broke the picture frame with the offshore bank account numbers hidden behind the photo of Gus and Schuler.  If not for that, they may never have discovered Kaylee's $2 million in the Caymans.  

The second time, Hank, on a hunch, had Gomie tail  Mike's lawyer, who was putting the hazard pay and Kaylee's cash into the safe deposit boxes.  

It's interesting that within a year or two of BB's finale, the U.S. Government started leaning on foreign banks to reveal the identities of U.S. citizens who held money in foreign bank accounts. Unless you live in a country where you can buy off all the politicians, this criminal enterprise stuff is pretty hard!

Edited May 16, 2017 by Bannon

[Eulipian 5k]

1 minute ago, Bannon said:

It's interesting that within a year or two of BB's finale, the U.S. Government started leaning on foreign banks to reveal the identities of U.S. citizens who held money in foreign bank accounts. Unless you live in a country where you can buy off all the politicians, this criminal enterprise stuff is pretty hard!

Tony Montoya's boss, Robert (T.H.E. Cat) Loggia, in Scarface explained very early that the biggest problem he would have is "What to do with all the cash you're gonna make".

[ItCouldBeWorse]

If Mike is going to be laying concrete, might there be room for a body?

[Bryce Lynch]

44 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

"Only wanted Jimmy to help her get Chuck to let her in"??!!??? 
"Only?!"
I'm with Jimmy on this one. What did he reply? Something about how his door breaking days were over for the next 12 months.
@Bryce Lynch, I will still give a lot of your posts hearts, but put me on the list of women who wouldn't cross the street to say hey. Heh.
Or maybe you were just being sarcastic?
But I'm glad you brought this up. Howard tells Chuck that likely Jimmy will break the law in the next 12 months and then never practice again. Nice Jimmy would have let Rebecca talk him into it, or at least say, "I'd really like to help, but . . ."
But no more Mr. [Fake] Nice Guy.
And Saul is born.

 

Stacey's belief in bullet holes (that we see are only thumping newspapers) is equivalent to Chuck's belief in his allergic reaction to electricity. 

And we get to see the introduction of Tamara Tunie.

My point was, that while many were bashing Rebecca, I think she belongs in the ex-spouses Hall of Fame for showing up 

Very few ex-husbands or wives would drop everything, get on a plane and rush to their ex's side when they get a report that they are mentally ill.

My response would probably be, "Mentally ill, you say? Yeah, I figured that out during our honeymoon. " :)

GREAT insight about Stacey's paranoia being equivalent to Chuck's electromagnophobia!

To take it a step further, I think while both sincerely believe in the make believe threats, they both probably subconsciously  (and perhaps sometimes consciously) have heightened symptoms of their mental illness when it helps them get what they want.

[nept1]

My apologies if I'm only repeating what someone's already said, and I wanna give a spoiler warning to those who haven't seen Breaking Bad but plan to do so.

What I see as a possibility is that Nacho might contact Mike about his Hector-problem, telling him about the meds and that he needs him to go away (probably wont be too close to this, since we've already seen this with Tuco, but something in the ballpark of this). Mike then consults Gus about this idea, since he knows Gus has a bigger plan for Hector, they team up and alter his meds to make him sick enough not to work but healthy enough to stay alive and aware of his surroundings.

I could also imagine Nacho contacting Jimmy asking for a favour, because as we know, Jimmy owes him for ratting on Nacho. This might lead to Jimmy contacting Mike, Mike contacting Gus and so on...

This has been said probably a thousand times, but it gives some foundation to my ideas. We know from S02E08 from Breaking Bad that Saul knows Ignacio (Nacho), "It was all Ignacios idea", giving a hint that they'll work together in the future of BCS. 

 

Edit: We also know that Nacho first wanted Tuco dead, before Mike came up with a better plan. So I doubt that he will be the one who comes up with something more creative for Hector. I think his plans for now is killing off Hector, with time being of the essence, since Hector is pushing on his fathers business.

Edited May 16, 2017 by nept1

[Atlanta]

Loved seeing Lydia. Have liked the actress since "A Knight's Tale."

[toodles]

7 hours ago, WendyM said:

I would totally watch Meth Lab Hunters.

Me too.

[BetyBee]

17 hours ago, peeayebee said:

 

It was strange having that scene with Mike and his DIL, but I'm sure it's a setup for another storyline.

As soon as she mentioned Mike pouring concrete, I was wondering what (or who) Mike would bury in the concrete!  Though I don't think footings would be big enough for a body, so maybe someone's body part or a gun used in a crime or something.  

Edited May 16, 2017 by BetyBee
Oops - ItCouldBeWorse beat me to it!

[nept1]

3 hours ago, ghoulina said:

But we don't know when he started. I suppose he could have kept working even after he was eligible. But he left town rather quickly, so I just am not sure he'd be taking advantage of a pension. He likely wanted to distance himself from the force, but who knows. 

Detective Abbasi said in the "Five-O" episode (S01E06) that Mike worked at the Philadelphia Police Department for nearly 30 years

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, BetyBee said:

As soon as she mentioned Mike pouring concrete, I was wondering what (or who) Mike would bury in the concrete!  Though I don't think footings would be big enough for a body, so maybe someone's body part or a gun used in a crime or something.  

Now you guys have me wondering if Mike really couldn't find an affordable quote for the carport or if he built it to bury something or someone. :)

[kieyra]

Heh, I understand why Gilligan & Co have trouble with everyone trying to crowd source/"solve" what will happen on the show. It must be extremely difficult to come up with twists. Whole first page of posts is basically speculation for the future rather what happened in the actual episode.

[scenario]

5 minutes ago, kieyra said:

Heh, I understand why Gilligan & Co have trouble with everyone trying to crowd source/"solve" what will happen on the show. It must be extremely difficult to come up with twists. Whole first page of posts is basically speculation for the future rather what happened in the actual episode.

But that's half the fun of a mystery. 

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, BetyBee said:

As soon as she mentioned Mike pouring concrete, I was wondering what (or who) Mike would bury in the concrete!  Though I don't think footings would be big enough for a body, so maybe someone's body part or a gun used in a crime or something.  

53 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Now you guys have me wondering if Mike really couldn't find an affordable quote for the carport or if he built it to bury something or someone. :)

Both of these occurred to me too (I watch a lot of L&O reruns).
Now I'm wondering if DIL figured Mike probably did bury something in the carport foundation, and she's either consciously or subconsciously blackmailing him into the playground project.

[TVFan17]

54 minutes ago, scenario said:

But that's half the fun of a mystery. 

Exactly.  I agree.    And not only is guessing at what might happen half the fun, in many cases it is not a separate thought but a natural evolution of our commentary about what actually happened in each episode.   Seeing what transpired with Hector, Nacho and the pill that landed on the floor, it is impossible to not automatically wonder aloud about how that might bring us to the Hector that we see in BB.

In the case of this series, it involves too many characters who we know ultimately end up in certain predicaments, stages of life and situations in the future (when we first meet them in BB), so the fun part and natural thought process is to take these events that are happening right now in BCS and automatically wonder how they play into future events/comments/locations.    Gilligan and Gould know what they're doing.  It might be more of a challenge for them to stump and surprise the audience, but they are up to the task.    They want people talking, and guessing, and wondering -- it keeps the buzz about the show going -- and they give us these great little morsels to chew on and analyze in each BCS episode.

Edited May 17, 2017 by TVFan17

[Dobian]

So this is taking place in 2001 then?  35 year old booze in a box that says 1966.  I always guessed it was around 2004.  Yay Lydia!  I'm personally happy to see another one of BB's oddball characters.  Chuck trying to force himself to tolerate electricity will accomplish nothing other than to torture himself.  The only cure is to convince that part of his brain that the electricity isn't harming him in the first place.  So Nacho has one of Hector's stroke pills.  I wonder if he's going to replace them with a placebo now that Hector wants to drag his dad into the business.  BB Hector might be coming soon.  Hello Saul Goodman.

[scenario]

1 minute ago, TVFan17 said:

Exactly.  I agree.    And not only is guessing at what might happen half the fun, in many cases it is not a separate thought but a natural evolution of our commentary about what actually happened in each episode.   Seeing what transpired with Hector, Nacho and the pill that landed on the floor, it is impossible to not automatically wonder aloud about how that might bring us to the Hector that we see on BB.

In the case of this series, it involves too many characters who we know ultimately end up in certain predicaments, stages of life and situations in the future (when we first meet them in BB), so the fun part and natural thought process is to take these events that are happening right now in BCS and automatically wonder how they play into future events/comments/locations.    Gilligan and Gould know what they're doing.  It might be more of a challenge for them to stump and surprise the audience, but they are up to the task.    They want people talking, and guessing, and wondering -- it keeps the buzz about the show going -- and they give us these great little morsels to chew on and analyze in each BCS episode.

BCS is like a historical drama in a way. Not many people say they don't like biopics because they know what happens to the main character.  How many people won't watch a movie about Abe Lincoln because we know how it will end up? Why shouldn't we want to see how the BB characters got to where they are? 

[Bryce Lynch]

32 minutes ago, Dobian said:

So this is taking place in 2001 then?  35 year old booze in a box that says 1966.  I always guessed it was around 2004.  Yay Lydia!  I'm personally happy to see another one of BB's oddball characters.  Chuck trying to force himself to tolerate electricity will accomplish nothing other than to torture himself.  The only cure is to convince that part of his brain that the electricity isn't harming him in the first place.  So Nacho has one of Hector's stroke pills.  I wonder if he's going to replace them with a placebo now that Hector wants to drag his dad into the business.  BB Hector might be coming soon.  Hello Saul Goodman.

It is 2003.  I believe believe somewhere between February 2003 and April 2003 (when Jimmy's car registration expires).

Scotch stops aging when it is removed from the barrel it is aged in and put into botles.  The 35 year old 1966 scotch was bottled in 2001,  but it will still be 35 years old in 2017 or 2066.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[tennisgurl]

And Low and Behold, a Legend was born! Saul Goodman is here, and wow does he have a lot of energy. Is it just a name Jimmy? Is it?

Spoiler

Its not :)

Lydia! I don't care if its typical prequel stuff, I totally got excited when she showed up. Really, the show does a good job balancing letting the show be its own thing, as well as being a prequel to BB. Its not like Anakin building C3PO or some shit every week. When people or things from BB show it, it actually makes sense.

I know that Jimmy not going to help Chuck is a sign of him sliding towards his life of Saul, but its rather hard to blame him. Chuck basically admitted in court that he's hated him for years, and is personally trying to screw his career up due to pure pettiness like yesterday. If I was Jimmy, I wouldn't thrilled to check on him either, especially when this whole thing started when Jimmy ran off to help Chuck in the middle of a break down. For all he knows, this is some convoluted trap to continue feeding Chucks never ending Jimmy hatred.

Rebecca might have been WAY out of line telling Jimmy off without acknowledging what an asshole Chuck is, but I will say, she is the best ex wife a guy could ask for.

I actually felt for Nacho in this episode, and I liked the focus on him this week. It was hard watching him deliver that asskicking, but it was clear he didn't want to do it, and he would much rather work in as nonviolent a drug business as possible. He so clear thinks Hector is an asshole, I'm almost wondering if he's the one who is responsible for Hector being the way he is in BB. Like, Hector tried more aggressively to get his dad involved in their business, and Nacho, not wanting his law abiding father getting dragged into this and finding out what Nacho does outside his shop, messed with his meds?

[scenario]

One thing that's great about this show is that there is very rarely information that just happens to be there. If they show something and a date is clearly shown, its not an accident. It may or may not be used in the show but if someone's trying to keep track of when events happen, it will be accurate. Too many shows don't really care about details. 

[ganesh]

14 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

Just a guess. But if he was working for Kim under the label "consultant", he could do most anything except appear in court or sign legal documents.

 

13 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

Kim's reaction to the first emergence of Saul was fascinating.

My first reaction to the final scene was that Kim is the one to suggest that Saul Goodman wasn't under suspension by the bar. That's way too dicey though. She might suggest hiring Saul as a consultant or whatever. But the point of the scene from my take was that taking on the persona of Saul Goodman is at her urging. Obviously she doesn't know what she's creating, but it fits with the tragic theme of the show. 

[Dobian]

It's great seeing all the players in play before Walter White came on the scene a few years later.  BCS is great at world building.

[Lingo]

I doubt that this show is actually telegraphing Nacho causing Hector's upcoming paralysis. That seems too easy, too predictable. These writers like their surprises. There must be a twist.  I would guess that Nacho tries to poison Hector and perhaps ends up dead for his efforts. The paralysis happens for a completely different reason.

I do wish the two halves of this show came together more often. BB constrains the writers somewhat, but it's not inconceivable for Jimmy and Mike to have more adventures together. But the writers don't seem committed to making that happen too much. I  keep expecting Jimmy and Nacho's interaction in early Season 1 to come back into play sometime down the line.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Lingo

[WhosThatGirl]

Seriously the scene when Rebecca came to Jimmy all "you have to forgive him and help him"
Uh. No. He doesn't. Chuck just tried to ruin his career and kind of did. Considering he was told he can't practice law for a year. Look Jimmy isn't perfect obviously as we're getting into the Saul era(yay!) but Chuck is the worst!

[scenario]

5 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Seriously the scene when Rebecca came to Jimmy all "you have to forgive him and help him"
Uh. No. He doesn't. Chuck just tried to ruin his career and kind of did. Considering he was told he can't practice law for a year. Look Jimmy isn't perfect obviously as we're getting into the Saul era(yay!) but Chuck is the worst!

Jimmy was very cold about how he said it. He could have said something like, I'm not going anywhere near the man. He hates me. He said it loud and clear under oath. I was his caretaker for years and all I get for it is him making up lies and trying to get me disbarred. If I go within a mile of his house he'll just make up a bunch of new lies, and he'll believe them. I'm through with him for my own self protection. 

Instead, he basically said that he has no brother in a very cold tone of voice. He was scary in that scene. I was shocked when I saw his obvious contempt for his brother.  He wasn't Jimmy or slippin Jimmy in that scene. He was Saul. 

[Quilt Fairy]

18 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Sure, she doesn't get how much Chuck has hurt Jimmy, she is right that you don't abandon a mentally ill relative because he hurt your feelings.

He was trying to get him disbarred, destroying his livelihood.  That's a lot more than just hurting someone's feelings. I was  not surprised when he said Chuck was not his brother anymore.

[shapeshifter]

3 hours ago, scenario said:

Jimmy was very cold about how he said it. He could have said something like, I'm not going anywhere near the man. He hates me. He said it loud and clear under oath. I was his caretaker for years and all I get for it is him making up lies and trying to get me disbarred. If I go within a mile of his house he'll just make up a bunch of new lies, and he'll believe them. I'm through with him for my own self protection. 

Instead, he basically said that he has no brother in a very cold tone of voice. He was scary in that scene. I was shocked when I saw his obvious contempt for his brother.  He wasn't Jimmy or slippin Jimmy in that scene. He was Saul. 

I wonder if another contributing factor to Jimmy's overt coldness towards Chuck (and by proxy towards Rebecca) at that moment was supposed to be his utter exhaustion with calming down infirm (former) clients that we saw earlier in the episode.

[nodorothyparker]

Maybe my memory is fuzzy because 7 a.m. and caffeine issues, but didn't that scene happen the same day as the hearing?  They were drinking champagne to celebrate Jimmy "only" getting a suspension.  So Chuck trying to destroy his career and basically admitting on the official record to hating him since he was at least 9 years old would still be pretty raw.  I'd be hard pressed to even go through the motions of giving a hot damn about Chuck who may or may not be setting me up again too.

[Bryce Lynch]

5 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

He was trying to get him disbarred, destroying his livelihood.  That's a lot more than just hurting someone's feelings. I was  not surprised when he said Chuck was not his brother anymore.

Chuck didn't try to get him disbarred until he broke into the MV files and sabotaged them, committing multiple felonies.

Jimmy deserved to get disbarred.

[Bryce Lynch]

6 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Seriously the scene when Rebecca came to Jimmy all "you have to forgive him and help him"
Uh. No. He doesn't. Chuck just tried to ruin his career and kind of did. Considering he was told he can't practice law for a year. Look Jimmy isn't perfect obviously as we're getting into the Saul era(yay!) but Chuck is the worst!

Jimmy ruined his own career by breaking into another lawyer's files, and doctoring the documents and sabotaging the client's regulatory hearing, to steal the client for his girlfriend.  

Chuck never tried to damage Jimmy's career until after he committed that highly illegal and unethical act 

Is it wrong for the victim of a crime to seek justice?  And Chuck did not even seek full justice (prison time.  He only wanted Jimmy disbarred, which was a totally reasonable goal.

6 hours ago, scenario said:

Jimmy was very cold about how he said it. He could have said something like, I'm not going anywhere near the man. He hates me. He said it loud and clear under oath. I was his caretaker for years and all I get for it is him making up lies and trying to get me disbarred. If I go within a mile of his house he'll just make up a bunch of new lies, and he'll believe them. I'm through with him for my own self protection. 

Instead, he basically said that he has no brother in a very cold tone of voice. He was scary in that scene. I was shocked when I saw his obvious contempt for his brother.  He wasn't Jimmy or slippin Jimmy in that scene. He was Saul. 

Totally agree. Jimmy's decision not to go to Chuck's was (uncharacteristically) rational.  His attitude was uncharacteristically cold-hearted, especially from the perspective of Rebecca who hasn't been around to see all of what has gone on 

[Gobi]

17 hours ago, smorbie said:

I put it down to someone who had finally learned, after multiple burns and skin grafts, how to keep his hands out of the fire.  Chuck was never going to be what Jimmy always thought him to be, and Jimmy is never going to be the brother Chuck wants.  It's best if they wash their hands and walk away.  In fact, I'm kind of surprised the judge didn't order that.

In the criminal proceeding, with the plea bargain, Chuck could have requested a restraining order. It's interesting that he did not. In the ethics hearing (where Chuck testified), the Bar Association does not have the authority to order such a thing.

[JFParnell]

17 hours ago, millennium said:

Sometimes it feels like Vince Gilligan lost a bet to Michael McKean.

I chuckled heartily :)

[nodorothyparker]

The show has done a masterful job in illustrating the huge chasm that can exist between what we know to be true and what may be common and publicly accepted as true, as well as what can be legally proven.  While we as viewers may know that Chuck is right about Jimmy, he couldn't prove it in any way that would have gotten him his desired result of Jimmy's disbarment.

[DrSpaceman73]

Quote

Jimmy ruined his own career by breaking into another lawyer's files, and doctoring the documents and sabotaging the client's regulatory hearing, to steal the client for his girlfriend.  

Chuck never tried to damage Jimmy's career until after he committed that highly illegal and unethical act 

Is it wrong for the victim of a crime to seek justice?  And Chuck did not even seek full justice (prison time.  He only wanted Jimmy disbarred, which was a totally reasonable goal.

 

After Chuck stole that same client from Kim.  For no reason other than to just be petty and hurt Jimmy. 

No, it is not wrong for a victim to seek justice.  But the way Chuck did it is wrong. 

Chuck justifies all his actions by making sure they are legal, there is no other higher standard, or indeed no other standard at all to consider.  He basically said so, almost word for word, in this hearing.  What is legal is not always what is ethical or morally correct, though, which is what he fails to see again and again. 

[Bryce Lynch]

12 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

 

After Chuck stole that same client from Kim.  For no reason other than to just be petty and hurt Jimmy. 

No, it is not wrong for a victim to seek justice.  But the way Chuck did it is wrong. 

Chuck justifies all his actions by making sure they are legal, there is no other higher standard, or indeed no other standard at all to consider.  He basically said so, almost word for word, in this hearing.  What is legal is not always what is ethical or morally correct, though, which is what he fails to see again and again. 

Chuck "stole" the client from Kim, who "stole" the client from HHM.  Sure, it might not have been "nice" for Chuck to go out of his way to win MV back.  But business isn't always nice, and there is nothing wrong with trying to retain a client.  The first thing Howard did, after Kim handed in her resignation, was to call MV to try to retain them.  For all we know, Howard could have made the pitch by himself or with another partner and won MV back.  They were going out on a pretty big limb, hiring an unproven lawyer who had just started her own practice.

At any rate, that in no way justifies Jimmy's illegally and grossly unethical actions.  Those actions clearly demonstrated that he was unfit to be a lawyer.  Even Jimmy and Kim know this.  Jimmy didn't confess to the ethics board and say, "But Chuck stole Mesa Verde from Kim, just to be mean, and Kim really needed and deserved Mesa Verde!".  That argument is childish nonsense, and would have gotten him instantly disbarred.  Jimmy's ability to convince himself that his illegal activities are justified "because he has a good reason" make him all the more dangerous.  

I was still rooting for Jimmy to win the hearing, but I am not afraid to admit I am rooting for the protagonist, not the "good guy".  

[nodorothyparker]

Without rehashing it for the umpteenth time, the point remains that nothing has been proven against Jimmy and he's admitted to nothing except the B&E.  The only thing Chuck proved in the disbarment hearing is that there's a long history between them that's resulted in some questionable behavior and that he should probably be considered an unreliable narrator because of his own instability and mental health issues.  So that's the official truth now, such as it is.  If you're Rebecca who has been absent for all of this or a casual observer and not Kim or Howard who are both in a position to know that there is indeed more to it than that, then that's all you really know for sure.

As an audience, we're in the position to know more than most of the characters.  We also know that Chuck will be proven right because we've seen both BB and the flash forwards to Cinnabon Gene.  The characters haven't.

[DrSpaceman73]

38 minutes ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Chuck "stole" the client from Kim, who "stole" the client from HHM.  Sure, it might not have been "nice" for Chuck to go out of his way to win MV back.  But business isn't always nice, and there is nothing wrong with trying to retain a client.  The first thing Howard did, after Kim handed in her resignation, was to call MV to try to retain them.  For all we know, Howard could have made the pitch by himself or with another partner and won MV back.  They were going out on a pretty big limb, hiring an unproven lawyer who had just started her own practice.

At any rate, that in no way justifies Jimmy's illegally and grossly unethical actions.  Those actions clearly demonstrated that he was unfit to be a lawyer.  Even Jimmy and Kim know this.  Jimmy didn't confess to the ethics board and say, "But Chuck stole Mesa Verde from Kim, just to be mean, and Kim really needed and deserved Mesa Verde!".  That argument is childish nonsense, and would have gotten him instantly disbarred.  Jimmy's ability to convince himself that his illegal activities are justified "because he has a good reason" make him all the more dangerous.  

I was still rooting for Jimmy to win the hearing, but I am not afraid to admit I am rooting for the protagonist, not the "good guy".  

 

Kim did not steal them from HHM.  She recruited the client initially, left the firm and was taking them with her.  HHM could have easily let it go, they would lose very little over it.  They had no idea they could even have them as a client without Kim.  There was no reason for Chuck to try and keep them with HHM other than just his desire to kick Jimmy, metaphorically.

This is all child nonsense, by both of them, I agree with that.  Which is why after three seasons I tire of it, no matter who's side I take or how much I favor one or the other.  Chuck may not have legally entrapped Jimmy with his scheme, but it was just as devious and underhanded as what Jimmy did, playing on Jimmy's devotion to his brother and obvious weakness for a family member with a psychiatric problem to extort a confession he could not prove otherwise.  Again, what is legal is not always what is right. 

I would not call Jimmy/Saul a "good guy", we know what he does later.  He is an interesting character. 

[smorbie]

16 hours ago, Knuckles said:

i do want to say that though Tara may or may not be a crackpot, I am loving this show. I feel that it has real traction now, and the slow build-up is paying off.

I loved seeing Gus look over the site of the future meth lab/laundry op, and that Lydia was his partner was a great payoff.

Even a frightened Crazy 8 was fun...before he became the hardened dealer who tried to kill Walk in Jesse's basement. i was so entranced with the world of BB, that seeing all these stories and characters begin to interact is very satisfying...but it is Odenkirk who is making this happen. I am loving Jimmy/Gene/Saul.

A lot of people seem to feel that way, and I'm glad you're enjoying.  

For me it's a big snooze fest.  I really wasn't interested in the actual business of the meth biz or the inner drama of the cartel when BB aired, and I'm even less interested now.

Although Mike's story is more interesting to me, and really kind of heartbreaking, it's not why I bought the ticket.

[smorbie]

12 hours ago, Dobian said:

 Chuck trying to force himself to tolerate electricity will accomplish nothing other than to torture himself.

I'm oddly okay with that.

11 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

he would much rather work in as nonviolent a drug business as possible

He might have chosen the wrong career.