S03.E18: Heroes Rise: Light the Wick

[formerlyfreedom]

Gordon discovers the weapon the Court of Owls will use to destroy Gotham, which leads him on a dangerous path as he tracks it down. Meanwhile, Kathryn and Temple Shaman reveal their next move to Bruce, and Ivy comes to Selina's aid

 

[Chaos Theory]

Am I the only one who wants to see Lee can infected by the Tetch Virus.  Because she is already kinda pissed and having her "dark side" come out and well aimed directly at Jimbo will be all kinds of fun.

The Ivy scenes were great.  I am actually enjoying "grown up" Ivy.  I like the idea that she is basically a kid in a grown up body and that is more or less how she is being played.  

The Court of Owls stuff is still the least interesting.  Not sure if I am liking the Bruce stuff either.   

Did like the fact that Strange is playing both sides.  

Line of the episode "You logical bastard."

[janeta]

So there was a car commercial in the middle? So confused...

[HoodlumSheep]

I rather enjoyed this episode in all it's campy-ness. The first episode I've enjoyed thoroughly since the fall. 

"You logical bastard."--line of the night. Harvey continues to be a gift that keeps giving

Pros:

• It was good to see Barnes and Jervis again. And Hugo!!!!!!!
• It's also nice that we got almost the entire cast this episode. And everyone was used effectively too, imo!!
• Bless Hugo. Harvey wants to arrest him, and he's just like, lol nope.
• Jervis still has his paper hat!
• Lol at the bird cages! 
• Bruce scenes continue to be fab
• Ivy in general this episode
• At lomg last Jim and Oswald shared a scene again. Hallelujah. They used to have one of the best dynamics in the show. When was the last actual Jim/Ozzy scene we've had? The end of season 2? Or the very beginning of seaon 3? I can't even remember anymore. Did they even share a scene in the begnning of season 3 or was the galavan murder stuff the last time?
• The endng was pretty great. I'm ready for the zany goodness.

Cons-ish:

• Jim continues to be the least sneakiest person ever, but at least he tries. I guess?
• Those doors wouldn't have sealed the blood vapor in the room. It would have leaked out. Jim rushing to close the doors was wonderfully cheesy. Lol.
• Bye bye for now, lee. At this point, you're a good target to get killed off. Or leave forever. Or We'll see what happens. I'm aware of some spoilers, but we'll see how everything goes down.
• So katharine was actually fooled by Jim??? Really, katharine? I thought better of you.

Edited May 16, 2017 by HoodlumSheep

[Lantern7]

I let this show go pretty darn far. Now . . . the bit with the Tetch virus system placed on a table with a countdown timer on top? Come on, Gotham. Come on.

Right now, I have Supergirl on pause with Teri Hatcher in full-on space queen attire, and I'm thinking that won't be as wild as Gotham. More hating of Jim, Barnes going double bugfuck with cheese, the return of Dr. (Hugo) Strange, Ivy's attempts to heal her friend, Selina waking up to go Kill Bill om the Doppelbruce . . . and the Oswald/Ed reunion. Man, I hope the other networks don't schedule anything interesting on Thursday nights.

[Danielg342]

I actually thought this episode was solid. Still a lot of plodding, but it kept my interest. Plus the race to stop the release of the virus actually meant the episode had to actually go somewhere, even if all the "going" was a bit rote.

The Bullock Meter:

The show gets some credit for "you logical bastard". I missed Bullock's zingers.

Other than that, though, Harvey again just largely did what the plot needed him to do, aside from protecting Jim Gordon (which the plot still needed him to do, though this was still in character). Donal Logue is at least trying, it appears, but there's only so much he can do when the script is lacking.

[Traveller519]

"I'm so sophomoric that even when I'm in a coma I can't wipe the sarcasm and contempt off my face"

Selina Kyle

[Kostgard]

Jim spent this episode being pretty smart and also being kinda dumb. There had to have been a better way to do this. Sure, he saved 200 socialites, but he probably doomed thousands by letting the Court know he isn't loyal. Also, the 200 socialites he saved must have had the brains bred out of them after generations of cousins marrying because no one seemed to notice the OBVIOUS BOMB sitting in plain sight in the middle of the room.

The smartest thing Jim did was team up with Oswald again. I get why the "good guy" of the series can't constantly pair up with one of the key villains, but the dynamic of this partnership is pretty compelling. And come on - they always get results! Think about it, Jim.

Lee: I'm leaving Gotham!

Me: Please do.

The second best thing Jim did tonight was finally tell Lee off. God, she's tiresome now. Writers, give her something interesting to do or write her off the show.

Sorry, but The Executioner is just a huge cheddar log rolled in nuts. Even for this show. I'm just gonna kinda wait until it is over. I'm also just sort of waiting for stuff to happen with Bruce too.

Great reunion scene with Ed and Oswald. They managed to convey quite a bit in a 50 second scene with three words of dialogue between them. In that short scene you could see that Oswald was simmering with rage, that he still loves Ed, and that he also wants to murder the shit out of him. Ed's reaction was the perfect mix of shock with a hint of anger, and he was more than a little bit scared. Can't blame him - what the hell does it take to actually kill Oswald? Also, I'm sure Ed was picking up on Oswald's "I'm gonna murder the shit out of you" vibe.

[Gulftastic]

Where is Alfred? They teased him spotting that there was something amiss but never followed through on it. I need to hear some 'Master Bruce'!

Can't wait for Selina's revenge. I loved Ivy looking after her bestie.

And no Barbara makes me sad. 

[Dame sans merci]

9 hours ago, Kostgard said:

Great reunion scene with Ed and Oswald. They managed to convey quite a bit in a 50 second scene with three words of dialogue between them. In that short scene you could see that Oswald was simmering with rage, that he still loves Ed, and that he also wants to murder the shit out of him. Ed's reaction was the perfect mix of shock with a hint of anger, and he was more than a little bit scared. Can't blame him - what the hell does it take to actually kill Oswald? Also, I'm sure Ed was picking up on Oswald's "I'm gonna murder the shit out of you" vibe.

Oswald's expression going from shocked to emotional to 'i'm going to shred you into pulled pork with my bare hands' was amazing. I like that they had enough faith in their actors just to let that scene happen with practically no dialogue.

I groaned a bit when I realised how Jim-centric this one was going to be, but actually ended up really liking what they did with him. The perfect mix of smart (using the mobile Oswald gave him to call for help) and idiotic (blowing his cover in the end, not by stopping the virus, but because he can't close a bloody drawer properly. Peak Jim.).

Edited May 16, 2017 by Blackcanary

[Spartan Girl]

6 hours ago, Kostgard said:

 

The second best thing Jim did tonight was finally tell Lee off. God, she's tiresome now. Writers, give her something interesting to do or write her off the show.

For real?! I missed that part. What exactly did he say?

[AConspiracy]

They really need to learn how to secure Barnes better. He just hulks out of whatever they put him in.

Or maybe "Things" out!

Edited May 16, 2017 by AConspiracy

[Danielg342]

9 hours ago, Kostgard said:

Sure, he saved 200 socialites, but he probably doomed thousands by letting the Court know he isn't loyal.

Arguably it's in character, because Jim has a strong moral conviction to save lives. Bullock might have thought, "sacrifice 200 to save millions" because he's a pragmatist, but Jim could never think that way.

[darkestboy]

Good episode but I really couldn't care about the Executioner. I'm hoping the next episode finally takes Barnes out of the equation to be honest because I don't see Kathryn's plans to use him to kill Gordon actually succeeding though.

Gordon really does know how to blow his cover in any given situation as well, doesn't he? I did like him not taking crap from Leslie though, who did grate in this episode.

Ivy looking after Selina was lovely. Selina being ready for vengeance though should bring back about the other Bruce storyline coming to an end too, so another good thing in a way.

Didn't mind Bruce's training bits but they didn't really forward anything.

Nice appearances from Strange and Tetch in this one and I did like the Oswald/Nygma reunion at the end, 7/10

[Chaos Theory]

18 hours ago, Kostgard said:

The second best thing Jim did tonight was finally tell Lee off. God, she's tiresome now. Writers, give her something interesting to do or write her off the show.

 

 

12 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

For real?! I missed that part. What exactly did he say?

They basically retreaded on why they weren't together and angry at each other in case we forgot.  (Which I kinda did).  To be honest I am taking Lee's side.  Hey Jim when you drive one ex bitter and/or crazy you can say it's her.  When you drive two exes bitter and/or crazy....it might be you.  

Plus I am kinda hoping for a big blow out scene with Lee on the Tetch virus.  Of course "our hero" Jim will save her and win her heart but really really pissed off rampagy Lee would be all kinds of fun.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[Winter Rose]

I liked pretty much everything except Lee. I'm not getting my hopes up that this was the last of her, this isn't the first time she's left Gotham, but clearly the writers have nothing for her to do.

Nice to briefly see Tetch in addition to Barnes, not that Barnes will actually succeed in killing Jim. I loved Hugo Strange playing both sides though and that Oswald incidentally saved the day. I've also really missed the Oswald and Jim scenes.

Good that they didn't drag out Selina's coma. Hopefully this means fake Bruce won't be around much longer.

[Kostgard]

5 hours ago, Blackcanary said:

Oswald's expression going from shocked to emotional to 'i'm going to shred you into pulled pork with my bare hands' was amazing. I like that they had enough faith in their actors just to let that scene happen with practically no dialogue.

I groaned a bit when I realised how Jim-centric this one was going to be, but actually ended up really liking what they did with him. The perfect mix of smart (using the mobile Oswald gave him to call for help) and idiotic (blowing his cover in the end, not by stopping the virus, but because he can't close a bloody drawer properly. Peak Jim.).

Jim really was in a catch-22 with the bomb, but that's really why I found the whole thing kinda stupid. How is "stand here and let these people die or Talon will kill you" a real test of his loyalty? And if they are really as all-knowing as they claim to be, they would have known that Jim would never stand by and let people die. Jim leaving the drawer hanging open was a classic bonehead move, but the Court is really looking like a bunch of boneheads too, so it's probably a rather level playing field.

And I thought the Court seemed kinda silly, adhering so strongly to the owl/bird theme that they keep their prisoners in giant bird cages. And I really thought that it was funny that they are so committed that they provide prison jumpsuits to their prisoners. But someone on another site pointed out that we may need to give the show more credit on that point. Both Ed and Oswald strongly tied their criminal personas to their wardrobes - green suit and bowler hat for Ed, snazzy three-piece suits for Oswald. Putting them in identical jumpsuits strips those personas away (the Court even brushed out Oswald's "Disco Vampire" hairdo). This isn't The Riddler and The Penguin. This is Ed and Oswald. There's no place for them to hide and they have to deal with their shit. I hope it's awesome.

 

1 hour ago, Chaos Theory said:

 

They basically retreaded on why they weren't together and angry at each other in case we forgot.  (Which I kinda did).  To be honest I am taking Lee's side.  Hey Jim when you drive one ex bitter and/or crazy you can say it's her.  When you drive two exes bitter and/or crazy....it might be you.  

Yeah, Jim is the common denominator in these disasters, but I wish Lee would just move on. She may have a point, but having her show up to do nothing beyond yelling at Jim, "Oh, hey - THANKS FOR KILLING MY HUSBAND" isn't great character development.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Kostgard

[Traveller519]

One thing I appreciated about this week was how much of it was shot in daylight, or high level light (by Gotham Standards). While I enjoy the theme, it was nice to get a good look at a bunch of these people. Jim's morning ritual (makes his own coffee!) followed up by getting confronted by Oswald and Bridget right outside his front door was not only a good sequence but filled with light!

[Spartan Girl]

55 minutes ago, Kostgard said:

Yeah, Jim is the common denominator in these disasters

I don't think it's fair to blame Jim for Barbara going bonkers.  Lets not forget that Barbara 1.0 was the one that treated him like crap, left him to go screw the ex that was trying to sabotage him, and then expected him to still be waiting for her after months of no contact.

But at least she had the decency to leave a breakup letter.  Lee, on the other hand, didn't even have the decency to let him know she lost the baby and moved somewhere else, and a few months later she got engaged to some other guy.  You'd think a SHRINK would know better than the reattach herself so fast after a miscarriage.  And then she went back to Gotham and kept rubbing it in Jim's face, then acted like he was the jealous ex stalking her when he tried to warn her about the Tetch virus.

So whether or not Lee has a point, she doesn't deserve the moral high ground.

[HoodlumSheep]

I'm pretty sure I finally  remember the last time Jim amd Ozzy interacted. It was the beginning of season 3. The episode where penguin let fish and hugo get away and flee gotham or whatever. That was the point where Ozzy basically broke up with Jim over the phone and moved on to Ed at that point. So i think it's been about 15+ish episodes since they've had solid interaction. Too long. You'd think him being mayor would have meant they would have continued interacting more. 

Correct me if I'm wrong about the last time they interacted, but that's the last time I remember them sharing scenes. Maybe I have a terrible memory, i don't know.

This might be a little out there, but Lee oddly reminds me of Montoya??? Remember her from season 1??? The lady who didn't trust Jim and was fixated on bringing him to justice about the Oswald "murder" stuff. That's what Lee has been reminding me of lately. Which is never a good thing.

Makes me sad; lee and Babs basically had a total reversal in terms of likability for me. Hated babs, then she turned evil and awesome and was actually given stuff to do and now I love stabby babs because she's so fun. I Enjoyed lee at first because she seemed pretty fun and nice (i especially liked the graysons case murder date episode), but now I just want her gone. :(

[opus]

I don't know if I can reconcile the fact that the big bad this season is a 60-ish woman with a mask fetish.

[thuganomics85]

GUILTY!!  I forgot all about Barnes, but tonight reminded me how awesome he became once he got infected, and Michael Chiklis went from playing a blustering captain, to full-on, hammy rage machine.  Glad he's back in the fold and off his leash.  Also glad for a Tetch sighting and, yep, Hugo Strange!  B.D. Wong as Hug is still some of the best casting this show has ever done.

At this point, I'm starting to think Jim's break-up and post-relationship with Barbara is going to end up better then Lee.  Barbara might have turned into a nutty, insane criminal, but at least she owns it.  Lee is just becoming a preaching jackass, who would probably blame Jim if her car got a flat tire or her steak was overdone.  Going as far as to even tear into Bullock and Lucious also.  Really wished one of them just told her to stuff it, but I guess they're too decent for that.

Jim already is exposed, because he naturally sucks at the whole undercover thing.  At least he's better off then Oswald, who gets himself captured and is now neighbors with Nygma!

Bruce continues his training with Arlo Al'Ghul, who, unsurprisingly, is actually using him for his own gain.

Selina wakes up (thanks to Ivy and her plants), and is already prepping to go to Wayne Manor and hopefully give Not Bruce the ass-kicking he deserves.

Bullock wins the night with his "you logical bastard!" line.

[Kathemy]

Really fractured episode but the good craft involved made it palatable.

http://www.douxreviews.com/2017/05/gotham-light-wick.html

[Perfect Xero]

On 5/16/2017 at 0:25 AM, Kostgard said:

Jim spent this episode being pretty smart and also being kinda dumb. There had to have been a better way to do this. Sure, he saved 200 socialites, but he probably doomed thousands by letting the Court know he isn't loyal.

But he didn't necessarily blow his cover there. He had already told Kathryn that Oswald was on the hunt for the Court, Penguin showed up and roasted Talon which caused a commotion that cleared the place out. He could have got out of that with his cover intact (and apparently did).

The dumb thing he did was not closing that drawer all the way.

16 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

 

They basically retreaded on why they weren't together and angry at each other in case we forgot.  (Which I kinda did).  To be honest I am taking Lee's side.  Hey Jim when you drive one ex bitter and/or crazy you can say it's her.  When you drive two exes bitter and/or crazy....it might be you.

I mean, it's kind of hard to think that the problem is with Jim when Lee is the one blaming him for the actions of a rhyming lunatic who was obsessed with him.

[Kathemy]

It's one thing that Jim has been generally unsympathetic and often really dumb throughout the show, but Lee has been a total jerk ever since she returned in season three. So I said this in my review, but basically, she returns to Gotham with her new fiancé, returns to her old job at Jim's workplace, forcefully inserts herself into his life, constantly trolls him for affection including visiting him the day before the wedding to make out with him to "say goodbye", thereby provoking Mario's jealous rage. Then she has the gall to whine that Mario gets in the way of the crazy daily life of the GCPD and ends up a victim, thoroughly blaming it on Jim and taking zero personal responsibility.

The only real bonehead moment by Jim in all of that was confessing his love for her at her wedding day. That wasn't very smooth.

[Dobian]

Glad to finally see Jim unload on Lee's judgmental ass.  No one told her to go back to work in Jim's precinct after getting engaged to Falcone's kid.  Plenty of other doctor jobs out there.  She's the only downer on this show now and needs to leave.  Barbara followed a similar arc before taking a u-turn into crazy town.  Maybe they'll do that with Lee.

Edited May 18, 2017 by Dobian

[Snookums]

Quote

Jim spent this episode being pretty smart and also being kinda dumb.

Sums the dummy up in a nutshell. I did like his "ah, screw it" line before fighting the Talon, but as posters have pointed out, he had everything in place to blame Penguin for that, and it would have worked if he knew how to close a damn drawer all the way! Why the hell would Katherine want this nitwit anywhere near her plans? As much as Lee rubs my fur with a balloon, she's right in pointing out that Jim leaves a trail of YOU STUPID PERSON destruction behind him.

And speaking of Lee, I am totally willing to cut Jim some slack because he finally told her off! And I wish I could tell off the writers in a similar fashion, because Lee is actually correct in her accusations: Jim's uncle was set up to look like a murder faked as a suicide (even though we know he shot himself Lee doesn't) Jim is involved with A Big Bad, Harvey is covering up for him, Lucius is refusing to tell her what's going on. She isn't wrong. But because the writers insist on having her present everything through the lens of "JIM MURDERED MY HUSBAND" she comes off as whiny bee-yatch who's paranoid and stupid. What is with this show, which is so flawless in its casting, insisting on making the female leads do this penance of unlikability?

Moving on: Ivy, in polar opposition, is just absolutely fabulous as Tween In Ruffles And Responsibility, taking it on herself to find and help Selena. Her excited babbling to Tabby was spot on in its Babysitters Club breathlessness, and her genuine terror that Selena, who's always been her protector, might not come out of this was also perfectly channeled as a young girl with no power desperately seeking it out. Her plants might as well have been a her favorite teddy bear that she tucked in beside Selena to keep her safe. (Of course, said plants actually do have more power, apparently, than a teddy!)

Oswald was slotted in perfectly to the story: I loved Jim coming out his door, seeing him and just being "Well, crap." Because of course this was the cherry on top of his shit sundae of a day. And he and Ed's mutual shock at seeing each other (say what you want about Jim's methods but Pengy got what he wanted!) was perfectly played. Nicely done.

And last but not least, Doctor Strange, whose bizarre Javanese paper puppet gestures and husking voice continue to be terrific. That voice, you guys--every time he has a scene I feel like those vocals are trying to physically stick a hand up my skirt.

[Perfect Xero]

I don't know, Lee is correct that something is off with Uncle Gordo, but I feel like Harvey had been trying to hint to her that there's an undercover operation going on, she just didn't want to hear it, and then she was upset over being left out of the loop when Foxy and Jim basically came out and told her as much in this episode.

When you're involved in putting out a hit on a guy (for saving your life) and basically tell him how much you hate him every time you see him, you can't really be surprised that he and his friends aren't giving you information about a very dangerous situation that he's in.

On the other hand, I feel like nothing from Lee this season has matched who she was in previous seasons. The only way her recent behavior makes any sense is if she's been infected with some slow acting version of the Tetch virus since the same time that her Fiance got infected.

[Kostgard]

15 hours ago, Snookums said:

 

And speaking of Lee, I am totally willing to cut Jim some slack because he finally told her off! And I wish I could tell off the writers in a similar fashion, because Lee is actually correct in her accusations: Jim's uncle was set up to look like a murder faked as a suicide (even though we know he shot himself Lee doesn't) Jim is involved with A Big Bad, Harvey is covering up for him, Lucius is refusing to tell her what's going on. She isn't wrong. But because the writers insist on having her present everything through the lens of "JIM MURDERED MY HUSBAND" she comes off as whiny bee-yatch who's paranoid and stupid. What is with this show, which is so flawless in its casting, insisting on making the female leads do this penance of unlikability?

 

Yeah, I really wish the show would give Lee a little nuance here, or at least some professionalism. Yes, everyone is hiding something from her. But for her, it isn't "Hey, guys. What's going on here? Feels like a crime is being covered up." Instead everything is couched in "Why are you working with Jim? DON'T YOU KNOW HE KILLED MY HUSBAND?!" Lee, they are all well aware. They are also well aware that Jim isn't sitting in prison for the murder of your husband, he's a detective in the police force, and it's their job to work with him. Also, as acting captain Harvey is well within his rights to determine who knows the details and who is kept in the dark about a sensitive case. Be a professional. Do your job or get out. If she thinks Harvey is corrupt along with Jim, there are ways she can address that concern that don't involve constantly whining about Jim and Mario. I think that might be actually more compelling and would put the guys in more peril if Lee went over Harvey's head because she thinks some corruption is going on and it threatens to expose their investigation into the Court. At least it would be much better than her using it as another excuse to dump on Jim.

Thinking back over the episode it feels like if anyone would should be whining about Jim, it's Oswald. Their usual pattern is almost always, "One of them asks for a favor, Oswald holds up his end of the bargain, Jim dicks him over either partially or completely." I mean, I get Jim not wanting to open the door for Oswald to exact revenge on Ed (since it would probably involve murder), but it still feels like he could have arranged for a meeting with the Court that didn't end up with Oswald in a giant bird cage (and hell, Oswald may have shown up with a bazooka again and solved the whole Court problem for Jim). I know Jim is never in an easy situation when he teams up with Oswald, but "let Oswald come by and pull my ass out of the fire and then just be all, 'Oh, the Court will be coming for you'" feels a bit shady. Though not as shady as "Let the guy I teamed up with to get rid of Galavan take the fall for his murder, which I actually committed, and get sent to Arkham to be tortured. I think I'll also ignore his cries for help next time I see him. Just to rub it in." I would say Oswald should have learned better than to trust Jim to hold up his end of a bargain, but...I kinda don't want him to learn because I do enjoy their dynamic.

[Enigma X]

I must say the whole Court of Owls thing seems absolutely stupid and annoying to me. 

[Kathemy]

By the way, anyone remember Lee patronizing Bruce about letting go of his obsessions mid-season two? That seems kinda rich now.

[Twilight Man]

Ivy:  Selina?  You're awake!!  Wait, what are you doing?  Where are you going?

Selina:  I need to go kill someone.

Ivy:  You know, this is the second time in a couple of weeks now that someone has woke up from a coma right next to me and immediately announced that they are going to kill someone.  What's wrong with this city??

[jhlipton]

On 5/16/2017 at 7:46 PM, iheartET said:

Who does Selina want to kill at Wayne Manor and why ?

 

 

FakeBruce -- for trying to kill her

On 5/16/2017 at 10:09 PM, opus said:

I don't know if I can reconcile the fact that the big bad this season is a 60-ish woman with a mask fetish.

"Hello, anonymous people.  Today's totally anonymous member is James Gordon.  James.. I mean, anonymous person, put on your yoask so no one knows you're James Gordon!!!!"

 

On 5/18/2017 at 6:39 PM, Kostgard said:

Yeah, I really wish the show would give Lee a little nuance here, or at least some professionalism. Yes, everyone is hiding something from her. But for her, it isn't "Hey, guys. What's going on here? Feels like a crime is being covered up." Instead everything is couched in "Why are you working with Jim? DON'T YOU KNOW HE KILLED MY HUSBAND?!" Lee, they are all well aware. They are also well aware that Jim isn't sitting in prison for the murder of your husband, he's a detective in the police force, and it's their job to work with him. Also, as acting captain Harvey is well within his rights to determine who knows the details and who is kept in the dark about a sensitive case. Be a professional. Do your job or get out. If she thinks Harvey is corrupt along with Jim, there are ways she can address that concern that don't involve constantly whining about Jim and Mario. I think that might be actually more compelling and would put the guys in more peril if Lee went over Harvey's head because she thinks some corruption is going on and it threatens to expose their investigation into the Court. At least it would be much better than her using it as another excuse to dump on Jim.

On 5/18/2017 at 2:53 AM, Snookums said:

And speaking of Lee, I am totally willing to cut Jim some slack because he finally told her off! And I wish I could tell off the writers in a similar fashion, because Lee is actually correct in her accusations: Jim's uncle was set up to look like a murder faked as a suicide (even though we know he shot himself Lee doesn't) Jim is involved with A Big Bad, Harvey is covering up for him, Lucius is refusing to tell her what's going on. She isn't wrong. But because the writers insist on having her present everything through the lens of "JIM MURDERED MY HUSBAND" she comes off as whiny bee-yatch who's paranoid and stupid. What is with this show, which is so flawless in its casting, insisting on making the female leads do this penance of unlikability?

And last but not least, Doctor Strange, whose bizarre Javanese paper puppet gestures and husking voice continue to be terrific. That voice, you guys--every time he has a scene I feel like those vocals are trying to physically stick a hand up my skirt.

Echoing this above.  Lee was right in saying "There's no place for me here" if she's referring to the GCPD.  If she goes to the (acting) captain with reports of a homicide, an he brushes her off without even trying to explain ("I can't tell you now, but will when I can" for example, then her job is useless..  But the 156th retread of "You killed Mario!" "He was going to kill you!" is tedious, lame and does nothing for either character.

Snookums, having a hand up your skirt can be a Good Thing, if it's an invited hand...  Otherwise, it's a Bad Thing. I'm not sure which way you were leaning.

[Camera One]

There were all sorts of dumb stuff in this episode, but I enjoyed this episode more than most.  I liked seeing a bit of everybody, and there was a bit more hope (and humor) with fewer random innocents dying. 

Ivy really grew on me, and it was amusing to see her use her powers to have people carrying plants for her. 

The Court of Owls is supposed to be super secretive, but Katherine is sloppy as hell.  I guess Jim is a worthy match since he's sloppy as hell too.  It makes zero sense why they would trust Jim Gordon.  If they had taken away that second phone, they would have been home free.  They should have had that ninja strip-search Jim.

Have they ever explained how Jim has master fighting skills and is able to fend off someone with a virus and that super kickass ninja?  I suppose both times, someone "saved" him, but still.

I don't get what the plan for Bruce is.  They want him to lose his emotions?  And then what?  

That scene at the end with Oswald and Nygma in cages was intriguing.  

They've pretty much destroyed Lee as a character.  She is coming off as incredibly grating and whiny.  It would work better if she could face the truth but found it difficult to let go of the anger towards Jim even though she understood why he had to kill Mario.  She knew full well what the virus could do. 

Edited September 23, 2018 by Camera One