S05.E23: Scrambled

[minamurray78]

In last week's episode, Sherlock also fell asleep while pulling an all-nighter, and Watson woke up first and pointed it out. I started thinking it was strange how interested she was in the case, carefully watching the pictures from Sherlock's phone (why show her anyway) and how after that conversation, he left her in that room in the Police Station and closed the door behind him.  So when next morning he slept in for a second time, it had me wondering whether Sherlock was in an altered state, imagining this lady and maybe even losing time assuming he's the one who sent the message to the detective. There were no scenes of her interacting with anyone else, and nobody's shown seeing her either. Except that whole "people who love each other don't make threats, they make promises" thing is too weird. Maybe she is real, some kind of a stalker? 

[dargosmydaddy]

31 minutes ago, minamurray78 said:

Maybe she is real, some kind of a stalker? 

Her behavior is stalker-ish, but I don't see Sherlock spilling that whole story about the case to some random woman from AA (particularly one with stalker-ish tendencies, which I would think he'd notice). And her arrival on the scene seems way too forced/ sudden unless she's anything but a hallucination.

I'm still hoping it's post-Shinwell-fight concussion related, and not a brain tumor or something equally jumping-the-shark-esque.

[Moxie Cat]

I totally thought she was a hallucination, especially when he barked at her for coming to the police station and then left her in a room (with a closed door) by herself.

Sherlock DID admit to sending the text, though, right?  I thought at the end he said he lied to the cop about not remembering doing it. The whole thing was bizarre, though.

The other weird part was the strangulation case that came out of nowhere...until he met with the cop in the backyard, I thought he was making that story up. I mean, not one convo with Watson about this case?

I also wondered if Sherlock was off the wagon again, though that would really be tedious to rehash again.

On the plus side, I liked the main plot. They actually had an SBK storyline that a) I could follow, and b) didn't bore me.

[jhlipton]

22 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

As soon as they narc cop pointed out how the supposed kingpin's social media was just full of a bunch of pictures and memes, I knew that it was going to be a code, and was frankly surprised it took Sherlock and Joan that long to figure it out.

I was expecting the text on the meme to be part of the code, but otherwise got it right away.

 

1 hour ago, Moxie Cat said:

Sherlock DID admit to sending the text, though, right?  I thought at the end he said he lied to the cop about not remembering doing it. The whole thing was bizarre, though

He said that he lied to the cop about who sent it -- he told the cop that he didn't know, but he knew it came from the hullicin-stalker.

[Vermicious Knid]

Maybe someone is gaslighting Sherlock?

[MisterGlass]

It's possible, though I think it would be pretty hard to gaslight him.  I initially thought she was one of Moriarty's proxies sent to monitor Sherlock.  However, I concur that she seems like a hallucination.  I was amused when he was awakened by Joan the first time, but a second time is worrying.

If it's his mother that would justify S. Holmes.

[juliet73]

I too think she is imaginary. What are the odds that he goes to a meeting of only a few people, and one of the attendees is British? I know it's NYC, but still. And then without knowing anything about "her", he starts discussing a case? That is so the opposite of what Sherlock would do. He scolded "her" for showing up at the police station and demanded she never do it again. IMO, he doesn't want whatever is going on with him mentally to cross over into crime solving life or his master detective skills. He was sleeping in this episode and he was sleeping last week too. I've also noticed lately that Joan has figured out some clues quicker than Sherlock. I thought maybe the writers were throwing her a bone, but now I think it's related to something with Sherlock's mind. I wonder if Shinwell caused some brain damage when he beat up Sherlock or maybe he ate a parasite when he dined at the bug restaurant a couple of episodes back. (He took Bell who said he would watch Sherlock eat). Thinking of Shinwell, I'm glad he's dead. The entire SBK/Shinwell storyline was bad. Just bad. I'm disappointed that Joan, Sherlock, Gregson, etc are acting like Shinwell was some noble person and are going to great lengths to find his killer. Shinwell was a murderer and a thug and he didn't deserve Sherlock and Joan's help before or after he was killed. 

Was it ever explained why Sherlock shaved his head? It's growing back now so I don't think it was a JLM thing. 

Edited May 16, 2017 by juliet73

[basil]

Quote

If it's his mother that would justify S. Holmes.

Aside from the fact she's too young, didn't his mother die in a fire long ago? Unless he's doing a Norman Bates thing, this doesn't make sense. 

Quote

 I wonder if Shinwell caused some brain damage when he beat up Sherlock or maybe he ate a parasite when he dined at the bug restaurant a couple of episodes back.

Shinwell hit him once in the head, and Sherlock never lost consciousness. One would hope Joan would notice odd behavior. I don't know if you can get parasites from bugs, cooked ones, anyway, which were what Sherlock was discussing, I think.

[theatremouse]

I don't think she was imaginary, but I do think she's a relative and the text from "S. Holmes" was true but not Sherlock.

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

I definitely think the woman is imaginary, and I'll take it a step further and say perhaps she is supposed to be Sherlock's mom? She died when he was fairly young, right? So his memory of her would be a woman about that age. Just my guess...

I'm interested to see where this is going... Like, why did he suddenly crack up now? (If it really had to do with guilt over the swing chain strangling, it might have been nice if we'd actually been shown that case, rather than Sherlock's brief recap.) Could it have to do with some kind of residual head injury from the Shinwell beating? I thought it was a little strange not only that he slept in, but that he was literally staggering when he exited the bedroom and didn't look at all physically well. . .

Yes, yes, and yes, which would also justify the beating scene, but:

6 hours ago, Eneya said:

Oh, god, please... no, this kind of bullshit is so not needed.

and, yes, but:

4 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

Her behavior is stalker-ish, but I don't see Sherlock spilling that whole story about the case to some random woman from AA (particularly one with stalker-ish tendencies, which I would think he'd notice). And her arrival on the scene seems way too forced/ sudden unless she's anything but a hallucination.

I'm still hoping it's post-Shinwell-fight concussion related, and not a brain tumor or something equally jumping-the-shark-esque.

This was the premis of Jonny Lee Miller's show in the 2000s, so redundant.

Edited May 16, 2017 by shapeshifter

[mandigirl]

Oookay. So from last week where the black doctor ended up being a war criminal/child soldier, to Shinwell's misguided arc, to now a successful black business owner is-- you guessed it! really running a drug gang... I'm not thrilled with Elementary's portrayal of black men on the show. Guess what? Not every black man is a criminal or connected in some way with a criminal.  The show needs to work much, much more on giving neutral roles to people of all races. Just saying. 

Which leads me to:

11 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Cracked up at the criminal mastermind brother saying he would sue them for discrimination, and Bell was like "Your gonna sue me for discrimination?"

I wasn't amused by this. At all. In this current climate where we're seeing first hand that police discrimination against black men is all too alive and very real, I'm not amused to see this show having someone, who is probably going to turn out to be a criminal, using it as an excuse. I mean, seriously??  Just poor taste to me. 

[johntfs]

6 hours ago, mandigirl said:

Not every black man is a criminal or connected in some way with a criminal.  The show needs to work much, much more on giving neutral roles to people of all races. Just saying. 

I like that on this show black people are allowed to be master criminals.

[paigow]

The ADA that keeps asking Gregson for proof was black...neutral, because every TV prosecutor tells the cops that there is not enough evidence to charge the suspect.... 

[Clanstarling]

On 5/15/2017 at 0:52 AM, paigow said:

Odd that Sherlock had such contempt for people buying Nazi material a few episodes ago, but matter-of-factly purchased an Enigma machine online [or got it from Morland]. Also odd that there were no Alan Turing / Cumberbatch jokes thrown in.

Others have pointed out that it's not the same as other memorbilia - I just wanted to add that it also represents one of the greatest triumphs of the British cryptographers in WWII.

15 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

I'm interested to see where this is going... Like, why did he suddenly crack up now? (If it really had to do with guilt over the swing chain strangling, it might have been nice if we'd actually been shown that case, rather than Sherlock's brief recap.) Could it have to do with some kind of residual head injury from the Shinwell beating? I thought it was a little strange not only that he slept in, but that he was literally staggering when he exited the bedroom and didn't look at all physically well.

I wish they had spent a little less time setting up the whole Shinwell/ SBK arc, and a little more time setting up this... If we had seen this woman briefly before at a meeting or talking to Sherlock, there would be even more mystery now about what's going on, and it might not be so obvious that she's not real (which would make for a cooler revelation when it comes). And on the (really, really slim, IMO) off chance that she IS real, this is the worst set-up ever in terms of a sudden Sherlock confidant, and definitely needed to be shown before now.

I think it's amusing that she's more intriguing in the few minutes she was onscreen in this episode than Shinwell ever was.

You've all made a solid case for her being imaginary, and that may well be the case - particularly with the unusual sleeping behavior of Sherlock. I still lean a bit more toward her being his sister for a couple of reasons. When Sherlock said he had to go to a meeting, his tone was less "going to my regular meeting because I need to" than "I have to go to a specific meeting urgently." So it seemed to me, when she smiled at him, that she was the reason he went.

Also, given that the SBK mystery was about two siblings people thought were estranged, but weren't, it fits thematically. Although I hated the sister story on Sherlock so much that I'm done with the show, that doesn't mean it has to be a bad story here. Elementary takes a very different approach to things.

10 hours ago, juliet73 said:

Was it ever explained why Sherlock shaved his head? It's growing back now so I don't think it was a JLM thing. 

JLM had to shave his head to film the Trainspotting2 film. I don't think they ever mentioned Sherlock's reasons.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Clanstarling

[paigow]

1 minute ago, Clanstarling said:

JLM had to shave his head to film the Trainspotting2 film. I don't think they ever mentioned Sherlock's reasons.

Joan shaved Sherlock - livestreamed to Everyone [hacker group] - as payment for their assistance...

[johntfs]

4 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

JLM had to shave his head to film the Trainspotting2 film. I don't think they ever mentioned Sherlock's reasons.

It was to pay a humiliation debt to Everyone.  We see Watson shaving Sherlock's head at the end of "Over a Barrel."

[iMonrey]

Quote

I'm really tired of hearing about SBK, this show isn't supposed to be about gangs. Also, did anybody else have a hard time believing that all these gang members had actua enigma machines? It's not like there's a million of them in existence. 

Agreed. It isn't just Shinwell, the whole season-long arc about SBK just doesn't fit into the Sherlock Holmes world, IMO. It's a terrible story to cap off the season. And as for Shinwell in particular, the show never gave us a reason to care about him one way or another until he beat the living crap out of Sherlock, at which point I loathed him. Why on earth should I care whether or not his death is avenged? 

I'm not sure what to make of the mystery woman, but that cop that showed him the text said it came from a different phone, so he didn't send it himself unless he has a second phone somewhere. Long-lost sister sounds like a stretch so I hope they don't go there.

[orza]

2 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I'm not sure what to make of the mystery woman, but that cop that showed him the text said it came from a different phone, so he didn't send it himself unless he has a second phone somewhere. Long-lost sister sounds like a stretch so I hope they don't go there.

Sherlock has a whole drawer full of burner phones. We saw that in some previous season.

[MissLucas]

Imaginary/not imaginary lady was definitely not always wearing the same things. At the meeting and later in the park she wore a white dress with a floral pattern and a trenchcoat, at the precinct she wore the same dress with a yellow cardigan and in the last scene she showed up she wore a pink dress and the trenchcoat again. Doesn't mean she's not a figment of Holmes' imagination - we know from his days of acting as maid to Watson that he's got a good handle on female fashion.

I hate to think that she's the result of some medical problem but at this point that makes the most sense. Sherlock's suddenly changed sleeping pattern also points into that direction. I really don't see this show copying 'Sherlock' to the point of coming up with a third Holmes sibling. But despite all the evidence against it I'm rooting for her to be a real person since that would be a real twist (plenty of shows have done their variation of the Fight Club twist already).

[Clanstarling]

6 hours ago, paigow said:

Joan shaved Sherlock - livestreamed to Everyone [hacker group] - as payment for their assistance...

Slipped my mind, but now that you mention it...

Thanks @paigow and @johntfs.

[dargosmydaddy]

17 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

This was the premis of Jonny Lee Miller's show in the 2000s, so redundant.

Ha, I almost forgot about Eli Stone... Maybe the producers were so impressed by it that they've been biding their time, waiting for the perfect moment to create an Eli/ Sherlock mash-up... Maybe British woman is the George Michaels proxy, and they'll be singing next week...

[Eneya]

Just to point out, her last comment "people who love each other make promises" sounded really weird, creepy and out of the blue. If she is his sister... ew. But who else could she be, sans a mental problem, which would be waay to stupid for this show?

[kitmerlot1213]

Two episodes in a row have had Sherlock sleeping--that has to have some sort of meaning and I hope it's not that he has some horrible illness or a brain tumor.  Perhaps it's just showing us how much faith he has in Joan's abilities and that he trusts her and can slip away to rest?

I'm also wondering if the strange woman Sherlock is talking to and meeting up with might have some family connection because he seemed as annoyed by her as he usually is with Mycroft.  Did Morland have other children that Sherlock's never mentioned before?

[MisterGlass]

It's possible for there to be another sibling, but the initial interactions between them weren't very fraternal.  I think he would have commented to Joan if he had another family member in town, let alone at a meeting.  He was keyed up when Mycroft showed up at one of his meetings and listened to him speaking without him realizing it.

[jhlipton]

13 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

Others have pointed out that it's not the same as other memorbilia - I just wanted to add that it also represents one of the greatest triumphs of the British cryptographers in WWII.

And Polish cryptographers too.

[rhys]

If it's his mom, her age may just be the age at which she died. What was mom's first name?

[marina707]

The episode description on my DVR for this episode said something along the lines of "a mysterious woman from Sherlock's past" so I just assumed it was his mom who'd turn out to be alive after all. When she was obviously too young to be his mother, I thought maybe a previously unmentioned sister. But then that "people who love each other" line made me think she was just a random stalker because the way she said that line was creepy, unhinged and somewhat threatening in my opinion, and then his reaction when she showed up at the station only seemed to further that theory. Like, as a couple other people have speculated, she's built up this relationship between them in her head that doesn't exist in reality, and if he does something to piss her off she'll hurt him. I might be reading way too much into it, but I just got that sort of vibe. The way their scenes played out in the episode didn't seem sibling-y at all to me, and it also never occurred to me that she was imaginary just because this doesn't usually tend to be the type of show I'd expect something like that from.

Since the episode description on my DVR for next week says (spoilering this because it's different than the description on the thread for next week's episode and I haven't seen it anywhere else)

Spoiler

"A gang war erupts in New York City as Holmes and Watson pursue an elusive criminal, and a familiar face appears to be pulling the strings" that just made me think there's going to be the "twist" that Moriarty is running SBK, which is ridiculous, but it made me think that the mystery woman could possibly be one of Moriarty's people, and she's going to end up tying into the main gang storyline somehow?

Although after reading the article linked above, which says the woman

Spoiler

is someone the audience "probably assumed they would never get to see" I figure it has to be him imagining his mother, since I can't think of anyone else that specific wording would apply to. And like a few other people have pointed out, his sleeping patterns have been off lately, so I'm sure that ties into him having hallucinations and is probably going to lead to a mental break and that will be the main storyline next season. Which I'm not exactly looking forward to because I feel it's been done so many times before

but I guess we'll just have to see.

Edited May 17, 2017 by marina707

[MissLucas]

Whether mystery woman is imaginary or not I find her introduction this late into the season a misstep. Although I'm not a fan of the Shinwell arc for better or worse it focused on Watson. Shinwell was probably conceived as Watson's Kitty - it didn't really work IMO but I still would have liked to see where they are going with this. What happens to Watson now that her attempt to save Shinwell has so utterly failed? She saved him once (physically) but all her other attempts were in vain. She couldn't bring him redemption, she could not steer him towards a better life, she could not give him a good relationship with his daughter- none of this was her fault but the experience should really have caused her to question her unrelenting faith in humanity and it probably did. Her behavior in front the Tyus and Bonzi's mother was completely OOC. I don't think I've ever seen such a jerk-move by Watson before.

But in light of the crisis Holmes is in Watson and her crisis became almost an afterthought and I suppose that'll remain the case for the final episode. Even worse if Holmes is really in some medical trouble and she did not notice then her arc this season will vanish in a wave of guilt-tripping about Holmes.

[basil]

I really don't think Holmes is going insane. If he was he wouldn't pull a simple shenanigan like calling the police on a burner phone. As the old joke goes, "I'm crazy, not stupid". An insane Holmes, I would think, would be on a grander scale, more on the order of a Moriarity. I do think this woman is from Sherlock's past, someone he never expected to see again, and possibly she's insane. They do seem to have a deep connection. He seems to feel a simultaneously ashamed of and responsible for her, otherwise why lie to the police about the text? Why keep the knowledge of her existence from Joan?

Quote

Others have pointed out that [the Enigma is] not the same as other memorbilia - I just wanted to add that it also represents one of the greatest triumphs of the British cryptographers in WWII.

Quote

And Polish cryptographers too.

Did Polish cryptographers work on the Enigma? I didn't know that. When I hear "Enigma", I automatically think of Turing.

eta: I don't think Sherlock sleeping is an issue here. People have to sleep, even Sherlock. He doesn't seem to need as much sleep as most people, but we have seen him sleep before. We've even seen him fall asleep mid conversation with Joan. I can't remember which episode, but it's a sweet scene. She tenderly covers him with a blanket and lets him sleep where he is.

Edited May 17, 2017 by basil

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, jhlipton said:

And Polish cryptographers too.

My bad. I'd forgotten the key Polish involvement. History of the Engigma Machine

1 hour ago, MissLucas said:

 Her behavior in front the Tyus and Bonzi's mother was completely OOC. I don't think I've ever seen such a jerk-move by Watson before.

Well, she was still grieving - and grieving people are sometimes unfiltered and rude.

[tvfanatic13]

On ‎5‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 11:07 AM, Trey said:

That's exactly what I thought about her.

Me too.

[basil]

Quote

 

I wouldn't think Sherlock sleeping would be an issue if they didn't kind of make a big deal of it in two episodes in a row. One subdued episode of her putting a blankie on him is one thing.

Him sleeping so hard that she had to yell to get him awake/looking disheveled and groggy in a way he never does, seems like a huge dose of foreshadowing to me.

I don't think so many people would pick up on how unusual Sherlock's sleeping habits have been if it was depicted as no big deal.

 

We of this forum are a tiny subset of those who watch the show. More than once we have seen Sherlock sleeping prior to the last 2 episodes. One person says something here, another picks up on it (like the mysterious woman being imaginary or Sherlock suffering brain damage from one blow to the head that didn't even knock him unconscious). I don't think the show "made a big deal" of portraying him sleeping 2 episodes in a row - they just showed him sleeping 2 episodes in a row. He's a human. He sleeps. We've seen him sleep more than 3 times. They've even made a point of him sleeping anywhere but a bedroom.

Quote

Her behavior in front the Tyus and Bonzi's mother was completely OOC. I don't think I've ever seen such a jerk-move by Watson before.

Watson was a total asshole and unsympathetic when Lestrade was mugged and beaten. 

[sinkwriter]

I don't know... I feel like the emphasis put on Sherlock sleeping in twice in one episode is a detail we're not supposed to overlook. He's usually the one spouting about not sleeping in and not wasting time sleeping too much when you should be studying and reading and advancing your brain skills, etc. He sleeps but it's usually out of necessity. For the writers to emphasize that he's still sleeping while Joan is already up, and then to have him do it again in the same episode (whereas if it was nothing, I'd think they'd only show him sleeping once)... it just feels to me like it's a detail we're supposed to notice.

I could be wrong and they've forgotten their own character and his usual habits about sleeping, but the sleeping combined with the odd stuff going on with that woman just seems like they're going somewhere with this. I haven't a clue where, I certainly hope there's a point to this strange woman (and her obsessiveness) whom we've never met before, but I guess we'll see!

Edited May 18, 2017 by sinkwriter

[johntfs]

8 hours ago, basil said:

Watson was a total asshole and unsympathetic when Lestrade was mugged and beaten.

And drinking from a stash of whiskey hidden on their home grounds, which was against the rules.  In season Two Watson was still extremely protective of Sherlock's sobriety.  Lestrade was fucking with that to her mind, so of course he gets no sympathy.

I suspect that Watson certainly noticed Bonzi's mother sincerely grieving her son, but that she also was thinking about about how many other mothers, fathers, children, etc., had been similarly grieving because of the things that her horrible children had done that she was profiting from.

[basil]

Quote

And [Lestrade was] drinking from a stash of whiskey hidden on their home grounds, which was against the rules.  In season Two Watson was still extremely protective of Sherlock's sobriety.  Lestrade was fucking with that to her mind, so of course he gets no sympathy.

Yes, Lestrade committed the crime of drinking alcohol in their backyard after a traumatizing incident. Watson vastly over-reacted to that (imo). Sherlock's addiction was only heroin, as far as we know. That aside, whether it was "against the rules" or not, the minute she smelled the alcohol, she went from being sympathetic to being outright nasty and uncaring. Would she have been ok if he had not confessed about the bottle in the backyard, and the smell was residual from the drinks he had had  in the bar he had been in prior to the mugging? Joan drinks. Is it ok for her to come home with alcohol on her breath?

 She wasn't Sherlock's sobriety companion at the time, nor did she have a doctor's license, but I would have thought the doctor instincts facing a beaten man would have over-ridden her "protection" of Sherlock from alcohol consumed outside of their house, if technically on their property, when, again, as far as we know, alcohol was never an issue with Sherlock. She couldn't have waited til she saw that he had been treated before she lambasted him? The man was still bleeding, and she was lecturing him, no longer caring whether he was ok or not. I mean, she tried to save a man who had kidnapped her, but Lestrade no longer matters because he broke the rules?

That, to me, was wildly out of Watson's character. So, not the first time Watson has been unsympathetic.  

[basil]

Quote

Just because something is no longer your job, doesn't mean those instincts aren't still there. Especially when you care deeply about someone.

I guess that was kind of my point. Watson is no longer technically a doctor, but we have seen those instincts kick in time after time. People who go into medical fields aren't supposed to care whether the patient is a good person or a bad person. She saved Shinwell's life, even though he was a gangster. She continued to try to help him even after he became very aggressive with her, and going even further, continued to try to help Shinwell after he had beaten Sherlock (a beating, as others pointed out, could have done severe damage with the blow to the head). She knows he has dealt drugs and probably killed people, yet she continued to try to "save" him despite Sherlock's warnings.

Shinwell wasn't a much-liked character (except, apparently, by Joan). Lestrade was really an unlikeable character to most (written deliberartely so), but to our knowledge, he hasn't physically harmed anyone - but take a drink in their backyard after being beaten and locked out, and Watson instantly drops her doctor persona - literally stops treating Lestrade in order to hector him. She could have done both at the same time. Seemed OOC. Sherlock was in no danger from him at that point (or any other, imo). He was just annoying and occasionally comic relief. Her treatment of him when he had been beaten always stuck in my craw.

So when when it comes to Bonzi's mother grieving her sons, Joan's behavior doesn't surprise me at all. She has odd priorities at times - so I guess we agree! ;)

As to mystery woman: if I read them right, the spoilers that were posted were carefully worded. The woman 

Spoiler

existed (or may exist), is definitely from Sherlock's past, but that does not preclude her being dead and is now only in Sherlock's head.

[paigow]

M. Night Shyamalan has hijacked the show.....

Watson is twisting the condolences knife because Mommy likely does not suspect that Tyus turned Bonzi into a turnip....or she approved it...either way, Watson ranks her below Morland as a parent....

[johntfs]

On 5/19/2017 at 8:03 AM, basil said:

Shinwell wasn't a much-liked character (except, apparently, by Joan). Lestrade was really an unlikeable character to most (written deliberartely so), but to our knowledge, he hasn't physically harmed anyone - but take a drink in their backyard after being beaten and locked out, and Watson instantly drops her doctor persona - literally stops treating Lestrade in order to hector him. She could have done both at the same time. Seemed OOC.

Shinwell was okay, he just never quite seemed to fit into the Elementary world.  Which was odd because Alfredo was similar character (urban African-American man with a criminal past) but managed to fit in just fine.  It might be because Joan and Sherlock came off as far more invested in Shinwell than Shinwell ever was in them.

As for Lestrade, there were several things going on there, I think.  Both Joan and Sherlock were, as Lestrade put it, "sick of the sight of his face" by that time, though Joan was making an effort (and it clearly a strenuous effort) to be polite and welcoming.  Joan also had to remember a previous houseguest, Rhys, as someone who threatened Sherlock's sobriety in ways both indirect (by bringing in pot against the rules) and direct, by inveigling Sherlock to stimulate his detective skills by getting high.  Figure with that in mind, Joan tripled down with Lestrade about not having drugs or alcohol anywhere around the brownstone.  So when she found him not all that seriously injured and having been drinking, she blew up at him.  I didn't find it to be out of character at all.  Joan's always struck me as a person who will be polite, gracious and forgiving right up to the point you cross that last line with her (whatever it might be) and then she'll cut a bitch.  I like that.  It's a real character flaw instead of a bullshit flaw like "I dress nerdy" or "I care too much about the people in my life."

Edited May 20, 2017 by johntfs

[dargosmydaddy]

To me, unless I'm forgetting something major, the spoilers

Spoiler

confirm that it is Sherlock's mom. I can't think of any other female character that I as a viewer "never thought I'd see." The way it was phrased made it sound like it is someone we've been made previously aware of in the show's universe, so not a secret sister. We did have mention of Sherlock's mom last season, and we know she meant a lot to him. We also know she's dead (and even if she somehow isn't, she wouldn't be this young), so therefore some kind of hallucination.

[jhlipton]

4 hours ago, johntfs said:

Shinwell was okay, he just never quite seemed to fit into the Elementary world.  Which was odd because Alfredo was similar character (urban African-American man with a criminal past) but managed to fit in just fine.  It might because Joan and Sherlock came off as far more invested in Shinwell than Shinwell ever was in them.

Alfredo also was a secondary character who wasn't asked to carry a main arc. 

[jhlipton]

8 hours ago, SweetTooth said:

Trust me when I say that Alfredo could have carried an arc just FINE.

Probably, since you put it that way.

[kieyra]

As a casual viewer, I assumed Sherlock had a stalker and he was hiding it from Joan because he was ashamed he'd accidentally let someone get that close, and/or frightened. (You can't "solve" your way out of someone being obsessed with you, and a restraining order might just escalate the situation.)

But by the end of the episode I forgot he'd overshared about the case with her ... which does make a stalker seem highly unlikely.

I didn't expect Dr House/BBC Sherlock-style head trips out of this show, but anything would be more interesting than Shinwell. 

[Clanstarling]

On 5/19/2017 at 10:58 PM, SweetTooth said:

Also? Alfredo wasn't the most depressing/depressed man on the planet. Shinwell was a giant lead weight around every episode he was in. He was depressing. His apartment was depressing. His life was depressing.

Alfredo had a fantastic sense of humor. He had great love for Sherlock and interacted with him in a whimsical way. He enjoyed challenging Sherlock, and most definitely Sherlock ENJOYED his time with Alfredo. They GOT each other in a brotherly way.

From the beginning,Shinwell wanted no part of Sherlock, and vice-versa. Shinwell wanted to be in his manpain, and he remained in his manpain until the bitter end. He didn't smile or have one moment of levity throughout his entire arc.

Trust me when I say that Alfredo could have carried an arc just FINE.

I think you're right - but I also know the actor who played Shinwell could have carried the arc fine as well, if he'd been written in a similar fashion. He's a good actor who has easily mixed humor with darkness before. Which was one of the reasons I, and others here, were excited when he joined the cast.

For some reason, dour, depressed, and sleepy was how they wanted Shinwell to be played. It was unfortunate, in my opinion.

Edited May 21, 2017 by Clanstarling

[kieyra]

Agree--the actor was dynamic, flamboyant, charming, vulnerable, and very watchable on True Blood. 

Edited May 21, 2017 by kieyra

[paigow]

Dude bends more than Negan......

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, SweetTooth said:

It's funny, because the show did the opposite for John Noble, who chewed up the scenery (not in a good way) on Sleepy Hollow but was wonderful and dynamic here.

 Now that you reminded me, I had the same anticipation on Sleepy Hollow, because I loved John Noble on Fringe, and in the Lord of the Rings. Hated him in SH. I was thrilled that they gave him a character worthy of his talents on Elementary.

[Rus-L]

On 5/15/2017 at 2:22 AM, Vermicious Knid said:

Oh good, I'm not the only one confused by the British woman. Because I was all "WTF? Did I miss an episode that introduced her?"

I came on this board (just watched the episode) specifically to find out what I had missed.  Glad to see I'm not losing my memory ... yet.  :-)

[Rus-L]

On 5/15/2017 at 11:45 AM, johntfs said:

I'm pretty much okay with it.  I'd be okay with Sherlock getting an Enigma machine just because he wanted one.  History of crime/espionage/codes/etc.  It's different than getting a book of people autopsied in Nazi medical experiments.  Like:

Guy 1: "I'm going to buy an Enigma machine."

Guy 2: "I'm going to buy a Lugar."

Guy 3: "I'm going to buy soap made from the fat of Jews murdered in the Holocaust."

One of these things is not like the others.

Yeah, I don't get why people have an issue owning an Enigma machine.  It was the breaking of that code that arguably won the war for us.  Heck, you see them in museums all the time.  They are a fascinating piece of important history and do not at all fall into the morbid category.

As for "Guy 2" not only do I know "that guy" but he's Jewish.  Seriously.