S12.E20: Twigs & Twine & Tasha Banes

[rue721]

I wonder if there's some way to Pinocchio doll!Alicia and turn her into a real girl. Wouldn't that be convenient?

Was it a fairy who was able to do that for Pinocchio? Fairies are generally pretty famous for replacing people with bundles of sticks.

Hmmm something just keeps nagging at me, making me think that fairies should/could come up sometime soon.

Here's a quote about the bundle of sticks thing, if you haven't heard that particular fairy story:
 

Quote

 

In some cases, there is not even a sickly Fae child to exchange as a Changeling. Left instead in the place of a bouncing baby boy or girl is a bundle of sticks, or a log, or other inanimate object, bewitched to look like the missing infant. In a few days or weeks, the “baby” will appear to become ill and die, leaving the human parents broken-hearted (and none-the-wiser as to the pilfering by the Faeries). 

Ah, but human babies were not the only target of the Fae. They were even known to take full-grown adults, leaving exact-duplicate Changelings in their place.

 

[Dobian]

40 minutes ago, SueB said:

Wow, the Barnes family is actually in worse shape the The Winchesters. Only Max left and he's criminally insane. 

I wouldn't call him criminally insane, he just lost his mom and his sister within minutes of happily chatting with them, so he was freaked out and acted impulsively.  Of course, when your impulsive act is to bring your sister back as a life-size puppet, you've got some consequences coming.

[Geordiegirl1967]

23 minutes ago, Dobian said:

Of course, when your impulsive act is to bring your sister back as a life-size puppet, you've got some consequences coming

You mean like when Dean brought Sam back ?? Honestly the 'they are just like the Winchesters' anvils were raining down on us non stop in this ep; from the 'moms on a hunting trip...' line to looking for their mum, to tragedy to losing a sibling to doing a deal to get her back. It was like all of s1-3 of SPN in one ep all tied up in a 'wouldn't this be a good spin off' bow.

Short answer? No it wouldn't!

I'll comment on the actual ep when I've had some sleep but initial impression is that I was distinctly underwhelmed 

[mertensia]

Those twig people were creepy as hell. Watching the twigs move under their skin.

I think Sam was tired after twigTanya nearly strangled him.

Yes! More bluegrass! 

[Boopsahoy]

On first watch I really liked it. Need to rewtch tonight without commercials to really grasp it all. A lot was going on.

[SueB]

4 hours ago, Dobian said:

I wouldn't call him criminally insane, he just lost his mom and his sister within minutes of happily chatting with them, so he was freaked out and acted impulsively.  Of course, when your impulsive act is to bring your sister back as a life-size puppet, you've got some consequences coming.

You're right. It was hyperbole.  But he's definitely 'mad with grief' (in the 'not in his right mind' kind of 'mad'). 

Yeah, this isn't going to end well for Max.

But as someone else said, it sure looked like an origin story of a supernatural villain.  And honestly, if it is a spin-off contributor*, it was REALLY well done IMO. I CARED about those twins. Between that short conversation w/ Sam in "Asa Fox" and this episode, I LIKED them as people. Plus, we got "Mom's on a hunting trip and she hasn't been home in a week." Nice nod.  

So, clearly Trisha (their Mom) was a natural. As is Max.  Alisha was a muggle -- but such a very LIKEABLE muggle.  And she was taken down by Not!Trisha. Which makes her a really good hunter -- because you don't see the knife coming from you mother. Trisha just got beat by an ancient witch.  And I'm going with Ancient.  Perhaps natural can last a longer time but I suspect Borrowers may have only a few centuries.  It clearly was more than a 10-year demon deal.  But, at the end of the day, you now have  a natural witch (Max), augmented by demon power (from Cranky Old Lady). He's got a kick-ass hunter made of twigs at his side. Notice Sam was tossed about quite easily by Mr Flower Arranger. So, there's some supernatural strength. But what does the controlled person remember? Because Trisha was really sweet and fun which she didn't turn into murderous twig person. There's a lot of complexities here IMO. Also, the two qualify as preternaturally beautiful in my book. 

*Other spin-off contributors thus far:
- Claire, CLEARLY. 
- Possibly Alex
- Possibly Kate (the werewolf)
- Possibly Eileen
Note: I say contributors because I think they learned last time that we could not invest in a bunch of spin-off character we didn't know.  So they are taking a slow burn approach. Now if they could just get back KEVIN -- man, I'd be in. 
 

Other bits:
- Go Mary!  I liked her this episode.  She APOLOGIZED for not being there for the boys.  Not enough, mind you, to ease MY wounded heart (so, I over identify... don't judge me).  But it was a straight-up admission she hadn't been there and needed to make it right. Also, interesting to note the exchange between Alicia and Sam, with Alicia describing Mary as "not a hugger."  
- Shout out to Jody Mills for an APB.  They've never done that before.  They've never sicked the police on Cas.  That's new. And smart, tbh.  It extends their intel network and it's not like Cas is going to actually die if shot.  And he could bust outta jail. But they may get sightings and that would help.
- Creepy Murder Room: Mission Impossible Style - had the 3 winchesters, Claire, Garth (!), and Eileen.  
- Go Mary Part 2! Nice badass beatdown of Psycho Brit.  Please note: I was clearly WRONG upthread about the power of the brass knuckles, according to Keth they are just for Angels. Although I'm glad she got Ketch in the privates. And really f*cked up his arm.  Between the extended fight sequence and the shifter bit, Sam Smith REALLY got a workout in this episode.
- Frozen Mick. Well, that's just odd.  Why keep him on ice. Why not ship him back in the belly of Ms Hess' plane. Or burn the body?
- *Gasp-worthy* phone message from Dean. He's REALLY putting himself out there. And I'm so very impressed!  He let Mary know he just wants to talk to her.  And it was adult, and honest. And I'm so glad Mary responded appropriately. This exchange fits the narrative that they are just trying to work out a relationship.  Although Mary needs to learn to hug. A lot.  And seriously, I would think Sam Smith would be lobbying for that.  Just sayin'.
- Melted Colt -- here's hoping they find a way to fix her.  She got in two more good kills (the Alpha Vamp and the god Molloch) but she needed to be in the inventory longer IMO.
- I was worried about Sam sleeping in the car. Just seemed like it took a moment to wake him. 

That's it.  I'll be back later. 

[Wayward Son]

This episode is far from what I'd call a classic! However, it has some interesting guest characters (the twins) and some interesting emotional beats so I'd consider it a success overall. The episodes main let down is that its attempts to create a parallel between the story of the Winchester's and the Banes is far from subtle. 

 

The Good

• Mary shows a little bit of compassion for her sons. I loved the voicemail she left for Dean :) 

• I loved the Mary and Ketch fight scene! While I dislike Mary's actions throughout the season, I like her more than Ketch so I was rooting for her to win! Shame he succeeded in taking her down in the end :( . Although I had guessed that the shifter torture scene was foreshadowing the real Mary taking its place by the end of the episode. 

• Dean got the kill this week! It was definitely his turn to have a win! Too bad he also had to deal with the guilt that comes with stopping Max from making the deal. 

• Dean acknowledging the fact that it would have been hypocritical of them to judge Max for making such a deal. My biggest pet peeve is hypocrisy, so therefore episodes like Pac Men Fever where the brothers are lecturing others on the importance of letting go always make me roll my eyes! I appreciated Dean being self-aware enough to know that telling Max such a thing would be hypocritical. 

 

The Bad

• I fear that they were foreshadowing a confrontation between the brothers and Castiel, which will involve the colt. I got this impression from the fact that seconds after Dean speaks of "not recognising the guy staring back at me" Sam reveals the colt, and they start discussing the need to fix it. 

• I was not a big fan of the Pilot drawbacks. I'm not one for overly getting into "bitch vs jerk", but I found it jarring that Sam needed to remind Dean, of all people, the fear that comes with a parent going missing during a hunt. 

• Lady IHateHerAndSheNeedsToDie is back! 

Edited May 5, 2017 by Wayward Son

[Demented Daisy]

37 minutes ago, SueB said:

So, clearly Trisha (their Mom) was a natural. As is Max.  Alisha was a muggle

Shouldn't she be a squib, then?  ;-)

37 minutes ago, SueB said:

- Creepy Murder Room: Mission Impossible Style - had the 3 winchesters, Claire, Garth (!), and Eileen.

Shouldn't Crowley and Rowena have been on that wall, too?  What is the official BMoL position on witches, anyway?  Seems odd that they would kill every monster (and some hunters, too), but leave the witch and King of Hell alone.

I expected more rejoicing around here over the fact that Dean got the kill while Sam was getting his ass kicked.

I don't expect to see Max and the Alisha Doll again -- unless TPTB decide that Max has gone full evil and needs to be killed by Sam and Dean.  He certainly has to avoid them at all costs because one look at her and they would know what he did.

All in all, not bad.  

(ETA  BTW, the name Max automatically makes me think of Azazel's special kid Max from S1.)

Edited May 5, 2017 by Demented Daisy
Redundancy. Odd. ;-)

[Katy M]

6 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

Shouldn't Crowley and Rowena have been on that wall, too?  What is the official BMoL position on witches, anyway?  Seems odd that they would kill every monster (and some hunters, too), but leave the witch and King of Hell alone.

That was their hunters wall. Crowley and Rowena aren't hunters.  I guess they could kill Rowena.  But, I'm not sure they have the means to kill Crowley.  Maybe th BMOLs don't care that much about demons and ghosts because they aren't monsters per se.

[DeeDee79]

2 minutes ago, Katy M said:

That was their hunters wall. Crowley and Rowena aren't hunters.  I guess they could kill Rowena.  But, I'm not sure they have the means to kill Crowley.  

Would they be able to kill Rowena though? When she came back to life after being killed by Lucifer I think she said it was a spell that she created to bring her back whenever she died.

[Demented Daisy]

4 minutes ago, Katy M said:

That was their hunters wall. Crowley and Rowena aren't hunters.  I guess they could kill Rowena.  But, I'm not sure they have the means to kill Crowley.  Maybe th BMOLs don't care that much about demons and ghosts because they aren't monsters per se.

Well, maybe they labelled it a "Hunter's Wall", but it looked more like "Winchesters and their Allies Wall" to me.  Didn't Garth stop hunting when he became a werewolf?  Are we supposed to believe that the people on that wall are the only hunters left in America?

Didn't one of the BMoL say they had eradicated all monsters and demons from the UK at the beginning of the season?  Which several people around here questioned because, if so, how did Bela make a deal?

1 minute ago, DeeDee79 said:

Would they be able to kill Rowena though? When she came back to life after being killed by Lucifer I think she said it was a spell that she created to bring her back whenever she died.

But they don't know that.  I'm just curious why they don't seem to be trying to kill witches.

[Thriftykins]

Wow.   Supernatural fans really hate Supernatural.

[mertensia]

51 minutes ago, Wayward Son said:

 

• Dean acknowledging the fact that it would have been hypocritical of them to judge Max for making such a deal. My biggest pet peeve is hypocrisy, so therefore episodes like Pac Men Fever where the brothers are lecturing others on the importance of letting go always make me roll my eyes! I appreciated Dean being self-aware enough to know that telling Max such a thing would be hypocritical. 

The thing is is Dean knew he couldn't stop Max. He knew he could help Charlie heal. 

I did wonder what the crossroads demon's reaction would be about her exchanging her soul for one of the Winchester's. Pure horror? Glee? Running away screaming and hiding?

[auntvi]

53 minutes ago, SueB said:

But, at the end of the day, you now have  a natural witch (Max), augmented by demon power (from Cranky Old Lady). He's got a kick-ass hunter made of twigs at his side. Notice Sam was tossed about quite easily by Mr Flower Arranger. So, there's some supernatural strength. But what does the controlled person remember? Because Trisha was really sweet and fun which she didn't turn into murderous twig person. There's a lot of complexities here IMO. Also, the two qualify as preternaturally beautiful in my book. 

I would much, much prefer Max and Alisha (beautiful, interesting characters and good actors) in a spin-off than the wayward girls, if they're even thinking spin-off. IMO.

[Katy M]

8 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

Didn't one of the BMoL say they had eradicated all monsters and demons from the UK at the beginning of the season?  Which several people around here questioned because, if so, how did Bela make a deal?

This is the line from Keep Calm

Quote

So much better. You drive back roads, catching cases at random. You get word a body's dropped, you check it out, and maybe you even kill the thing that did it. But that person is still dead, and maybe a few more. But my people? We plan ahead. We study lore, and we use it against our enemies. Back home, every thoroughfare, every bridge, every dock, every airport has been warded. The moment a monster steps foot in Britain, we know about it. Within 20 minutes, he's been picked up. And within 40, he's dead. There hasn't been a monster-related death in Britain since 1965 because we are good at our job.

Demons teleport, so their system wouldn't work on them at all.  So, like I said earlier, I don't think they count demons in their "monster" definition.  Because Bela's parents' death would be demon related.

[DeeDee79]

32 minutes ago, Demented Daisy said:

But they don't know that.  I'm just curious why they don't seem to be trying to kill witches.

I know that they don't know about that. My statement was in response to Katy M's statement that the BMOL could probably kill Rowena but not Crowley.

[SueB]

@Demented Daisy Of course! A squib.

[Thriftykins]

I feel like they're kinda blowing it with the British Men of Letters.  Earlier, you could kind of root for them because although they're pretty ruthless and don't show mercy to monsters, they were still overall doing a good job protecting humans.  Although their track record of protecting the U.K. versus the Americans is less impressive when you consider they're covering 1/40 the land mass.

Now they're just kind of killing humans capriciously.  It doesn't make sense.  Even if the disorganized American hunters aren't as effective, they're still basically on the same team.

[Aeryn13]

Credit to Yockey, this was the first episode in months now that I didn`t think to be a raging dumpster fire. It wasn`t perfect but pretty decent.

I was so disheartened when Dean lost his weapon and was pinned to the chair but kudos, he managed to get the gun back and get the kill. Not a flashy kill of a big monster but nevertheless I needed to see him be a hunter again so hallelujah. Major improvement over valium!Dean. He wasn`t useless and incompetent and again all kudos to Yockey.

The gripping the wine glass was stupid, though. To me it`s a director`s job to say "this ain`t funny, just stupid".

I was glad Mary didn`t just breezily manage to walk out of there because that pimping of super-badass rankled this Season especially. I needed to see her brought down a peg. And even if she managed to turn ice-water into a bit of blood here, the last 19 episodes did a LOT of damage to the character in my eyes. I need to see a shit-ton more grovelling from her before she even approaches redemption territory.  

The "please fix the Colt for I have no idea about weaponry" was stupid but eh, the sneak peak already prepared me for it.

Doing callbacks to lines from the Pilot, eh. I enjoyed Dean`s look of "seriously?" when Sam said it. Especially since they put Dean`s line in the previouslies. That worked in calling out the lameness of it. 

Didn`t mind the scene with Dean and Twig!Tasha because I felt it wasn`t a lecture to him for once. His look and an entire reaction showed that he knew this already and that Mary has been an ongoing disappointment to him this Season. Which is totally fair. 

I felt bad for the witch twins. They were good characters played by good actors so giving them the Winchester treatment on speed for the angst of it was just sad to watch.

So overall, this episode manages to score major points in comparism to the previous 8 ones. It was something I needed for sure. 

[bethy]

I was disappointed by this episode. I was actually disappointed that Dean called Mary - I haven't seen anything in show that would indicate Mary is concerned for Dean's heart or state of mind. Why would he reach out to her when as far as I can tell she's been pretty cold toward him and actively worked against him? It made me sad for Dean that he continues to look for comfort from someone who hasn't been able to give him any in the past.

I was disappointed that they had Max choose to trade his soul for his not-sister. I was really hoping that when the witch was making the offer, he would, on his own, say, "That wouldn't be my mother - you killed her - and I'm not going to be so selfish that I take any scrap of something that looks and talks like my mother as a replacement." And then, later in the season when I'm sure one of the Winchesters will have to make some sort of stupid choice between making a deal and "saving" "family," the parallel could be that person also chooses NOT to make the deal because "family." In my head it would be Dean choosing not to save Mary, but to let her go. This show wants to have it both ways - you do for family - but then when someone does that, berate that person for being selfish. It makes me tired because so far at least, no one ever learns. 

I was not disappointed that Mary was beat up and defeated by Ketch. It feels weird to say that I got an odd satisfaction out of her being tased, but there it is. I'm tired of Super Mary, Best Hunter Evah. She's seen Ketch torture monsters before, right? I'm not misremembering that? And she still slept with him. Why suddenly is she worried? She and Sam both said "good" when they hauled a human off to torture, right? The abrupt change of heart is alll plot related, I know, but ugh. 

My bet is that at some point, Max will have to kill his "sister." Because making deals to "save" your family never works out well!

[Katy M]

12 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

The gripping the wine glass was stupid, though.

 

 

I'm going to rewatch this episode right now, solely to see what the big deal is about how he's holding the wineglass.  Can someone narrow this down for me?  Is it when Sam is still in the room, when he's talking to Twig!Tasha! or some other time.  I dont' want to miss what is apparently ridiculous glass holding, whatever that entails.

[Idahoforspn]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

 

 

I'm going to rewatch this episode right now, solely to see what the big deal is about how he's holding the wineglass.  Can someone narrow this down for me?  Is it when Sam is still in the room, when he's talking to Twig!Tasha! or some other time.  I dont' want to miss what is apparently ridiculous glass holding, whatever that entails.

I suspect that was Jensen's choice. I didn't have a problem with it.

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Is it when Sam is still in the room, when he's talking to Twig!Tasha! or some other time.  I dont' want to miss what is apparently ridiculous glass holding, whatever that entails.

It is before Sam leaves and then in a later shot, he holds it normally before that goofy grip again. Basically, it is how a very small child would hold a glass like that because they don`t have the fine motoric skills yet to do it otherwise. 

[mertensia]

8 minutes ago, bethy said:

I was disappointed by this episode. I was actually disappointed that Dean called Mary - I haven't seen anything in show that would indicate Mary is concerned for Dean's heart or state of mind. Why would he reach out to her when as far as I can tell she's been pretty cold toward him and actively worked against him? It made me sad for Dean that he continues to look for comfort from someone who hasn't been able to give him any in the past.

 

 

Because he is Dean. He may be disappointed n Mary. He might not consider her family-or he might. Either way he's a hero and heroes do not leave humans to monsters if they can rescue them. 

[Katy M]

OK, I saw it. It doesn't bother me in the least for several reasons.  1.  Like I said before, anyway that you hold a glass that doesn't result in its contents spilling out is perfectly fine.  2.  It could be symbolic of Dean trying to grip onto Mary, or Cas, or the Colt, or sanity, or anything else he has/thinks he's lost this season. 3. The first time he does it (which is as far as I wathed as I don't generally like doing rewatches so close), he's pouring Sam's wine into his own glass which would make anyone want greater stability. 4. It doesn't really look all that goofy to me.

[Aeryn13]

Somehow my eyes got drawn to it. If someone did that at a party, everyone, really everyone I know would stare at them, it just looks so out of place. Have never seen an adult do it. 

However, the episode had enough good moments that I can forgive a goof like that. 

[gonzosgirrl]

At first I thought all the Very Important Lessons in this episode were meant for poor, plodding Dean - but on rethinking it, hopefully Max's "I could've saved them if only I'd listened to [Alicia]." was meant for Sam. If he'd listened to Dean's instincts in the first place about the BMoL...

[Aeryn13]

And Dean`s instincts kinda were right here, too. He was very doubtful Max was gonna be okay. Turned out to be right. I`ve missed Dean and was overjoyed to kinda see him back here. Hopefully he stays around.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Aeryn13

[Bessie]

I really enjoyed this one!  I liked the twins when they were initially introduced and that continued here. No Castiel/Kelly/Lucifer/Baby Lucifer story, always adds to my enjoyment of the story. The actors all did a great job. And I liked Mary for the first time in a while. Samantha Smith gets a shoutout from me. Ketch and Mary kept my attention and the switching back and forth between the stories was fairly smooth. 

I do have a couple of nit picks. I can't believe they just left Max after his entire family was slaughtered. C'mon, boys!  They should've invited him back to the bunker, at a minimum. I've never thought they lack empathy and I think the writer could've gotten where he wanted to go with Max and maintained the boys characterization. 

As others have said, leaving that ring was stupid. And Dean asking Sam if he could fix the Colt was off-key, for me. I did notice the way Dean held the wineglass. It didn't bother me as much as some of you, but I believe that's an Ackles thing and I give the actors who've been playing these characters for twelve years all the latitude when it comes to small things like that. 

I really wish they would stop killing characters I like and start killing characters I dislike!  I guess I'm selfish that way, but why must we keep Claire and not this lovely witch family?

[gonzosgirrl]

25 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Somehow my eyes got drawn to it. If someone did that at a party, everyone, really everyone I know would stare at them, it just looks so out of place. Have never seen an adult do it. 

However, the episode had enough good moments that I can forgive a goof like that. 

It's probably one of those things like having Dean basically fall over the fence trying to climb it: Jensen thought it was funny, so he went with it. In and of itself, it probably is funny, but in a season where so much of the writing is in disservice to Dean (IMO of course), it just adds to the perceived pile-on.

Gotta be honest though: I didn't even notice it until it was pointed out. Probably my eyes hadn't adjust from rolling so hard at the rest of the scene.

[ZennyKenny]

Ok now that some time has passed, I have some additional thoughts:

- I wish they wouldn't have written Alicia as a fucking idiot. I know finding out that your mom is an imposter is hard. But Sam's literally being flung around the room and she's just sitting there on the floor saying "mom, mom" over and over again to something that has been clearly established to not be her mom.

- Ketch was kind of annoying with his whining about cleaning up after the Winchesters. It's not like he sat them down and explained the BMoL's "zero tolerance for loose ends" policy. Or, you know... gave them an employee handbook. Regardless of whether or not Sam & Dean would have been on board (cos we know they wouldn't have been) you can't complain that someone isn't following the rules if you never even stated what the rules were to begin with.

- I'm pretty sure Crowley would disagree with the old lady's "if you pass to magic torch, your soul no longer belongs to hell" philosophy. I would have liked it better if she succeeded in giving the ring away, and Crowley shows up anyway and is like "nice try, sweetie. That's not how it works".

[ZennyKenny]

13 minutes ago, Bessie said:

I really wish they would stop killing characters I like and start killing characters I dislike!  I guess I'm selfish that way, but why must we keep Claire and not this lovely witch family?

Definitely agree with this!! Although I would just say that I wish they would stop killing characters in general. It's not shocking, it doesn't make for good drama, it just makes me feel like I shouldn't bother caring about anyone on the show. Which is kinda the opposite effect the show should be having on me.

[gonzosgirrl]

22 minutes ago, ZennyKenny said:

<snip>

- I'm pretty sure Crowley would disagree with the old lady's "if you pass to magic torch, your soul no longer belongs to hell" philosophy. I would have liked it better if she succeeded in giving the ring away, and Crowley shows up anyway and is like "nice try, sweetie. That's not how it works".

This SHOULD have happened.

[DittyDotDot]

I know you're a revenent and all, but seriously, 'bout time you started to pay attention, Mary!

I enjoyed some of this one, but did not enjoy all the yapping. But, it wouldn't be Supernatural if they didn't stand around yapping about shit I already knew, now would it? Still, though, all in all, inoffensive and more or less entertaining hour of television. ::shrugs:: 

14 hours ago, rue721 said:

Oh yeah, and I was just thinking last weekend that I wanted to hear more bluegrass on this show! So thanks for the bluegrass/folk soundtrack to the climactic montage, SPN!

I know, right!

13 hours ago, catrox14 said:

Why did the BMOL keep dead Mick on ice? What are they going to do with him? That made no sense because they should have put him in a vat of hydrochloric acid, (Walter White would be ashamed of you, Ketch) unless they plan to do something else with it.

Ketch was on the phone saying something about not being able to ship it airmail, so I'm guessing that even though they killed Mick for being a "traitor" they still were planning on honoring as one of their own. That, or they wanted to set it up to look like he died in the UK, but hadn't had a chance to get the body sent there yet?

13 hours ago, Katy M said:

I hate the insta-Shifting thing too?  But, has anyone shifted any other way since season 5?  I honestly don't think so.

Except for the shifters in Bloodlines (who were, I believe "pure bloods") and the Alpha, all shifters since S5 have been gooey. Perhaps the shifter they were torturing was a closer to the Alpha in bloodline like how they explained the werewolves in Bitten? 

13 hours ago, ZennyKenny said:

So, does anyone else get the urge to scream "THE TABLE IN THE MAIN ROOM IS AN ANGEL TRACKER!!!" every time Sam & Dean lament that they can't find Cas? Am I the only one who remembers this from like 6 seasons ago? Or did I miss something?

They never finished making it into a angel tracker. Sam thought they might be able to, but then they found the computer and called Charlie and then the Dorothy and the Wicked Witch showed up. As far as I know, the table was never converted to track angels. It was one of those conveniently convenient plot contrivances.

13 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

It was a good fight scene, but this super-smart badass hunter we've had shoved down our throats should've known better than to let Ketch know she was on to them. 

Have we seen Mary be a super badass hunter, though? I think she relies on the tech and isn't actually all that badass or all that smart, myself. Almost any hunt we've seen her on has gone bad or she's had the tech of the BMoL to make up the difference. 

4 hours ago, Demented Daisy said:

Shouldn't Crowley and Rowena have been on that wall, too?  What is the official BMoL position on witches, anyway?  Seems odd that they would kill every monster (and some hunters, too), but leave the witch and King of Hell alone.

It seemed to be all focused on the Winchesters and their circle of friends, so I think that room were things they were keeping away from Mary; Rowena and Crowley wouldn't be something Ketch would need to hide from Mary. 

Edited May 5, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[Wynne88]

Quote

I would have liked it better if she succeeded in giving the ring away, and Crowley shows up anyway and is like "nice try, sweetie. That's not how it works".

That would have made an awesome scene.

I liked the call back to the line from the pilot and thought it was very well done.  To me, it seemed that Sam made a conscious effort to find the words that would give Dean a frame of reference for why Alicia was concerned.  And it worked, in my view.  Dean listened, thought for a second, then agreed to help.

I liked the episode, thought it was fairly well-paced for a change, and involved Sam and Dean more than some have.  I am sorry to see the twins go in their original state; I enjoyed them a lot.  I expect that somewhere down the line, Sam and Dean will encounter them again, and it won't be a happy reunion.  Max seemed to have a lot of power even before he accepted the ring.

[sarthaz]

Sam's off his game.  When's he going to figure out that Dean has been body-swapped with a mopey, whiny, teenage girl?  It only took Dean half an episode to realize Grand Warlock Gary was in Sam's body, but someone else has been inhabiting Dean's body for months now.  Wake up, Sam!  Literally.  Wake up!

[Myrelle]

18 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

And Dean`s instincts kinda were right here, too. He was very doubtful Max was gonna be okay. Turned out to be right. I`ve missed Dean and was overjoyed to kinda see him back here. Hopefully he stays around.

They were AND yes, he finally got the kill-and even though it wasn't a big bad, it was the kind of dirty work that Dean is accustomed to doing and I thought Jensen played that as wonderfully as he always has in the past. Yockey stayed true and I was happy to see his name as the writer in the opening credits and hoped with all my being that he would stay true to his first outing(Asa Fox), which he did, IMO; and this was especially refreshing to me because not only did he write Dean as a great hunter in that one, too but the twins were also introduced in it.

 

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

I was so disheartened when Dean lost his weapon and was pinned to the chair but kudos, he managed to get the gun back and get the kill. Not a flashy kill of a big monster but nevertheless I needed to see him be a hunter again so hallelujah. Major improvement over valium!Dean. He wasn`t useless and incompetent and again all kudos to Yockey.

You and I must have been telepathically connected at that moment. I felt the exact same way.

 

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

Doing callbacks to lines from the Pilot, eh. I enjoyed Dean`s look of "seriously?" when Sam said it. Especially since they put Dean`s line in the previouslies. That worked in calling out the lameness of it. 

IA with this sentiment. I also agree that anvils WERE raining down on us in this one, but I thought that most of the acting was good and so the anvils were handled with some aplomb, because of that, for the most part.

1 hour ago, bethy said:

I was not disappointed that Mary was beat up and defeated by Ketch. It feels weird to say that I got an odd satisfaction out of her being tased, but there it is. I'm tired of Super Mary, Best Hunter Evah.

You and me both.

1 hour ago, bethy said:

I was actually disappointed that Dean called Mary - I haven't seen anything in show that would indicate Mary is concerned for Dean's heart or state of mind. Why would he reach out to her when as far as I can tell she's been pretty cold toward him and actively worked against him? It made me sad for Dean that he continues to look for comfort from someone who hasn't been able to give him any in the past.

But this I have to disagree with you on. This was one parallel that worked great for me in this episode and it definitely was IC for Dean. He did the exact same thing in Home with John and IMO, John rarely showed that he had much concern for Dean's heart or state of mind either, and this, even though John survived the night that changed all of their lives forever. Dean's face and his oh-SO!-heartfelt relief when he heard that message from Mary in the car turned that parallel on it's ear, IMO and I REALLY liked that. Kudos to Mr. Yockey and to Mr. Ackles, of course.

I didn't have a chance to see the sneak peek yesterday, but when I saw it in the episode my initial reaction was also WTF?! DEAN should be the one to fix the colt, but that's obviously going to SuperSam, too. Typical of this season, though.

Still, that was really the only thing that rubbed me wrong in this one. 

1 hour ago, Aeryn13 said:

Didn`t mind the scene with Dean and Twig!Tasha because I felt it wasn`t a lecture to him for once. His look and an entire reaction showed that he knew this already and that Mary has been an ongoing disappointment to him this Season. Which is totally fair. 

IA. And again the facial Ackting saved that scene, IMO, and actually and completely KEPT it from seeming like just another schooling for Dean on Parents Being People, too. More reasons why Jensen should get all the awards for what he's done on this show as Dean through the years.

I'm sure the twins will be back next season or possibly in a spin-off as others have noted. IMO, those two actors could carry off a spin-off better than any of the possibles that we've seen so far. I think their acting is decent enough and with practice might even get better. And yes, I thought their story was sad and hard to watch also even though I felt that the attempted parallel with the Winchester brothers story did not work at all because Max' replacement Alicia was not the real thing or the genuine article. I don't think that either Winchester would knowingly have ever settled for that. Not IMO, anyway. 

[Geordiegirl1967]

2 hours ago, Thriftykins said:

Now they're just kind of killing humans capriciously.  It doesn't make sense.  Even if the disorganized American hunters aren't as effective, they're still basically on the same team.

It doesn't make ANY sense to me. They have gone from an interesting shades of grey combo of incredibly effective but ruthless hunters of monsters and protectors of humans to basically morality-free psychopaths. 

In the very first instance they only wanted to get rid of Sam and Dean because they thought (and they have somewhat of a point looking from the outside in) they were causing more (world threatening) harm than good. They also wanted to recruit US hunters, organise them and make them more effective.They didn't want to eradicate US hunters just because they won't obey British MoL. I mean what is Plan B then? To move their whole operation across to the US? Do they even have that capacity? Britain is tiny compared to USA. 

Nor, until last week, were they portrayed as the kinds of people who would run a Hunger Games/Harry Potter mash up school where they make kids murder each other while learning lore etc. 

It all makes no sense whatsoever and has turned them from intriguing 'allies' but with very different mindsets and methods, to out and out baby eating monsters which are far more dull dramatically. 

[Idahoforspn]

18 minutes ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

It doesn't make ANY sense to me. They have gone from an interesting shades of grey combo of incredibly effective but ruthless hunters of monsters and protectors of humans to basically morality-free psychopaths. 

In the very first instance they only wanted to get rid of Sam and Dean because they thought (and they have somewhat of a point looking from the outside in) they were causing more (world threatening) harm than good. They also wanted to recruit US hunters, organise them and make them more effective.They didn't want to eradicate US hunters just because they won't obey British MoL. I mean what is Plan B then? To move their whole operation across to the US? Do they even have that capacity? Britain is tiny compared to USA. 

Nor, until last week, were they portrayed as the kinds of people who would run a Hunger Games/Harry Potter mash up school where they make kids murder each other while learning lore etc. 

It all makes no sense whatsoever and has turned them from intriguing 'allies' but with very different mindsets and methods, to out and out baby eating monsters which are far more dull dramatically. 

I do kind of like Ketch. The actor is good at portraying a psychopath. 

Edited May 5, 2017 by Idahoforspn

[Idahoforspn]

I thought the acting was really solid by everyone in this episode (except Lady Toni). Some writing missteps but not bad. Sam fixing the Colt still makes me angry but I thought it was a solid episode. It might have helped that for the first time ever, I waited to watch until I could fast forward through the ads. I suspect that the additional advertising we got this time helped stabilize the ratings. I was originally expecting a drop. Wonder why the additional advertising.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Idahoforspn

[gonzosgirrl]

43 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

Have we seen Mary be a super badass hunter, though? I think she relies on the tech and isn't actually all that badass or all that smart, myself. Almost any hunt we've seen her on has gone bad or she's had the tech of the BMoL to make up the difference. 

 

Nope, we haven't, really, but we've sure been told time and again how amazing she is.  My description of her was meant to be slight somewhat complete hyperbole.

[Myrelle]

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

At first I thought all the Very Important Lessons in this episode were meant for poor, plodding Dean - but on rethinking it, hopefully Max's "I could've saved them if only I'd listened to [Alicia]." was meant for Sam. If he'd listened to Dean's instincts in the first place about the BMoL...

Good catch.

There was one other part that rankled a bit. Ketch's monologue to Mary about the killings of the soldiers and the psychic girl at the beginning of the season-all I could do was roll my eyes at that nonsense. That was lame, IMO.

[Morrigan2575]

I both cringed and enjoyed the Mary/Ketch fight. I liked how they didn't go overboard with Mary's skills, she fought dirty.  I was really worried that Ketch was going to force himself (force a kiss) on Mary during the fight. Glad that didn't happen.

I loved seeing the twins again and I hate that we lost one of them. Towards the end, i thought i had it figured out, i thought Alicia was going to take the deal since she didn't have natural magic and, save her mother. 

I did love the pilot callbacks.

Edited May 5, 2017 by Morrigan2575
Corrected thought to fought because no one should have dirty thoughts about creepy Ketch

[trxr4kids]

9 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

 

I both cringed and enjoyed the Mary/Ketch fight. I liked how they didn't go overboard with Mary's skills, she thought dirty.

 

Best typo ever! ; )

[Aeryn13]

Quote

Ketch's monologue to Mary about the killings of the soldiers and the psychic girl at the beginning of the season-all I could do was roll my eyes at that nonsense. 

Yeah, he came across as whiny in that scene. Like, noone asked him to kill humans to "clean up messes". And the brothers wouldn`t appreciate it either. Is he actually unclear about this? His attitude would have made sense if he had talked about some BMOL operative who had sworn by their Code but suddenly developed a bleeding heart or something. But applying those standards to people who never adhered to them was ridiculous. No fault to the actor who does a good job with the character. 

Though I found Mary`s "I`ve never seen that side of you" equally ridiculous. They worked together for months and Ketch has no interest of hiding because he is proud of what he is and IMO is incapable of hiding - plus, I never saw him pretend in their previous scenes - so what she claims makes her seem blind and naive. Considering how cold and manipulative she came across in previous episodes, it looked more like she didn`t care how messed up he clearly was. Only now that she is supposed to be "motherly" and warm again, she clutches her pearls. Give me a break. I saw it more as plot convenience and therefore inorganic as character progression. Which makes her still not really sympathetic to me.

I thought those scenes were the weakest parts of the episode. The Barnes family mini arc was a lot more engaging to me.   

[Mulva]

10 hours ago, Geordiegirl1967 said:

You mean like when Dean brought Sam back ?? Honestly the 'they are just like the Winchesters' anvils were raining down on us non stop in this ep; from the 'moms on a hunting trip...' line to looking for their mum, to tragedy to losing a sibling to doing a deal to get her back. It was like all of s1-3 of SPN in one ep all tied up in a 'wouldn't this be a good spin off' bow.

Short answer? No it wouldn't!

I'll comment on the actual ep when I've had some sleep but initial impression is that I was distinctly underwhelmed 

Well at least the Banes family are likeable.  I'm surprised he didn't re-reanimate Tasha too.

[Bessie]

3 minutes ago, Mulva said:

I'm surprised he didn't re-reanimate Tasha too.

Me too. That was a head-scratcher. 

ETA: My only idea is that maybe that doesn't fit with whatever scenario they may have been  foreshadowing. 

Edited May 5, 2017 by Bessie

[Demented Daisy]

3 minutes ago, Mulva said:

Well at least the Banes family are likeable.  I'm surprised he didn't re-reanimate Tasha too.

Since her heart was already used on one "doll" and the witch who performed the magic was dead (something Rowena said earlier in the season could stop the magic), he probably couldn't have re-animated Tasha.

[Bessie]

Just now, Demented Daisy said:

Since her heart was already used on one "doll" and the witch who performed the magic was dead (something Rowena said earlier in the season could stop the magic), he probably couldn't have re-animated Tasha.

That works too. 

[Fables]

I enjoyed this episode, glad the twins were back but sad about the ending. I least expected for both Max and Alicia to survive and go on without their mother as hunters so I didn't see Alicia dying coming.  I don't see Max as a villain for what he did in the end as it kind of parallels what Dean did in season 3 when he brought Sam back to life by selling his soul to a crossroad demon.  I also was glad that Dean brought up the stuff they did to hold on to one another so he couldn't judge Max's choices because I was always hypocritical for them to just expect others to move on from losing a family member when they couldn't do the same.  As for Mary, I'm glad she finally wised up to Mr. Ketch and the BMOL.  I actually like Mary's character and unlike many viewers, see her as misguided and flawed not unloving or cold. The only reason she joined that organization was for her sons, so they can live in a world without monsters once and for all and she saw that BMOL despite not truly trusting them get results and have all this new gadgets they don't.  Sam saw the same thing and wanted to work with them too despite being tortured by rouge agent Toni.  Mary does cares for her sons a lot but she is not a hugger as Alicia says.  Both Sam and Mary were wrong for wanting to work with BMOL but I understand their reasons and don't see Mary needing some huge redemption as both Dean and Sam have made plenty mistakes that made things worse and even winding up splitting up for some time before making amends like in season 5 and season 9 plus the Darkness in season 10.  Mary is allowed to make mistakes too since her intentions were good.   The only problem I had was her character was underused and wasn't allowed to bond with her sons more but I blame that on the writers.  I did enjoy the fight scene between Mary and Mr. Ketch and glad she beat up him even if he did get the upper hand using a taser(she should have knocked him out first).   Lady Toni is back and I hope Mary escapes and takes both Mr. Ketch and Lady Toni down in next episode and finally reunites with her boys.