S05.E09: IHOP

[dubbel zout]

I don't know why she'd be embarrassed. That baked potato looked delicious to me!

[SunnyBeBe]

When Martha grabbed that potato off the table when Gabriel showed up, I thought that she was trying to avoid offering him something.  Like, hey, that's all I got to hold me over until tomorrow night. I'm NOT sharing.  lol 

[lcarolynl]

I was so happy to see Kimmie and catch up with her. How sad is her life that she is spending her birthday with this older guy and no one knows or seems to care she is alone at home on her birthday? Poor thing. Phillip (I can't remember his fake name with Kimmie) is the most loving, present person in her life. She's cute but it sucks to be Kimmie!

And Martha, wow, what a crappy life she's living in the Soviet Union! Remember her home in DC? It was a small apartment but it was cheerful and homey. Her bed was visible from the front door (through the glass paned french doors) and it was always very attractive. I got the impression her attractive and pillowed bed was important and a source of happiness for her. In her grey, sad apartment in Moscow, her small bed against the wall was unmade. It was when I glimpsed that small, unmade, bed crammed up against the grey wall I was reminded of her cheerful, happy US apartment and it dramatically added to the comparison between her two lives. Set designers for the win!

Her unstyled hair and that hideous sweater added to the evidence of her fall. I liked that she still had the gumption to turn down a friendship with the also lonely Gabriel. I don't know that I would have turned away someone who spoke excellent English and with whom I could share memories of the US. Martha has always surprised me with her inner strength and honesty.

Tuan's situation is so sad for me. I believe him that he's reaching out to his Seattle foster brother. He is so scared to be sent back because he dared to make a connection with another human being. I was pretty impressed he realized he was being tailed but .... to live a life so alone has to be horrible. 

[Mumbles]

As for the potato, the last time we saw Martha she was shopping at a supermarket with practically empty shelves and looking at the remaining offerings with disappointed skepticism. So who knows maybe this is the only palatable choice for her. Or maybe it's the only choice for her. Who knows? Sad either way.

Ah Martha. Remember how P&E cruelly edited one of the tapes to make it sound like Stan and Gaad were laughing at how homely they found her? And how hard she fought for her freedom once Clark's gig was up? I think she may be the best character on the show, alternatively breaking my heart and making me cheer for her.

[sistermagpie]

Kimmy wasn't with Jim on her birthday.  They were having a late celebration. 

[Knuckles]

16 minutes ago, lcarolynl said:

Set designers for the win!

Great point. I am always looking at the rooms of the characters on this show...in a way I don't on other shows. Paige's wallpaper makes me nuts, as does the backsplash in Elizabeth's kitchen. And that Moscow apt. looked like an SRO squat, it was so dismal. And yes, I think she was not sharing her potato...that trip to the nearly empty grocery store for the "elite" was the tell. And the clothes she was wearing looked like they were rejected by the Goodwill. In her pre-Moscow life, she was carefully made-up and dressed, and her apt., though small, was tastefully decorated.  Every day has to be a bitter reminder of all she has lost...including her trust and her illusions. And for entertainment, she had an old radio playing the Red Army choir. My choice...fed prison. The food would be better, there would be a chance to get out, and there would be books, TV and occasional movies. And her family would not be lost. She was close to her parents...that is a very hard blow.

[SunnyBeBe]

Of all the people that I can empathize with is Martha. Seeing her looking so alone in that apt was sad, but, at least she's alive.  I'm so glad they didn't kill her off.  I've just always liked her character.  From day one, I liked her.  I'm not sure why.  This actress is just so special to me.  Of course, I have empathy for P & E too.  Granted, they are killers, but trained as soldiers at an early age.  Akin to brainwashing really.  They were robbed of a normal life and put into the Cold War as no more than children really.  Still, they continued to kill....do they know it's wrong? I think it took a while for them to come to that conclusion.  

Edited May 3, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[Knuckles]

And a last point, even as the USSR dissolves, Martha's problems do not. The KGB does not go away...they become Putin's core group of oligarchs. And they do not let someone like Martha just walk away. And even if they did, she is not getting back to the US...she does not have her passport, and if she tried to apply for it, or even cross a border, she would be stopped. The FBI would have an interest in finding her...she was Gaad's secretary who disappeared shortly after his murder.  And if and when she was found, even with a guilty plea, she faces plenty of US Fed jail time.  Her mistake was not going to the FBI to confess. After that, her fate was sealed.

[dubbel zout]

2 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Still, they continued to kill....do they know it's wrong?

I think they've always known killing is wrong, but it's also necessary to the cause, which is what was the most important thing. If it isn't us, it's them. What's different now is that their belief in the cause is starting to waver, and collateral damage isn't as easy to justify as it once was.

[EtheltoTillie]

3 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Walkman on the plane? Like books on tape in the car?

I thought of that too, but it might be a forbidden security risk. He only listens in his safe room. 

[misstwpherecool]

It could be me but did the KGB or who ever brought Oleg in for questioning be one of the guys that approached Gadd in the hotel room in Thailand?-Never did find out what they wanted other than recruitment. On one hand they looked like agents looking for a lead or suspect to satisfy their bosses. But why then search Oleg's room unless they wanted to make sure he wasn't into anything that would bounce back on them.

I think Martha finally gets the full gravity of her situation and consequences of her decisions. Still think Gabriel is there to fish information or set her up for an assignment.

Still not buying Henry's 'success'. Setting up story where he comes crashing down?

Did Tuan really catch their surveillance or was it a quick excuse? Story to be verified next week?

Wonder if P & E taught Tuan take a measurement on the opening trick. E was very diligent using the ruler on the  closet.

Edited May 3, 2017 by misstwpherecool

[SunnyBeBe]

Why would the Russians give Oleg that horrible job when he returned?  I mean, I thought his dad had clout.  Everyone seems to talk as if he does, but, then they give Oleg a job that will get him killed?? Odd. They know Oleg is the only child now, so, they place him in a job that is so risky.  I don't get it. 

[Dowel Jones]

4 hours ago, GussieK said:

Phillip has to listen to hours of taped material each week?  How does he fit that in with his trips to Kansas?

Simple.  He just fast forwards straight to the important stuff.  Happens all the time on tv tape recordings.

[Sarah 103]

19 hours ago, gatopretoNYC said:

Martha!

Poor Martha. :(

That pretty much summed up my reaction. I'm glad we saw her again, because I was not expecting that. I also like that they explained what they were planning for her future, so if we never see her again, we have a better idea of where she is know, and where she is headed. 

19 hours ago, benteen said:

Letting Henry go to that school would be a good idea for Philip and Elizabeth.

I know. It gets him out of the house, which means less hiding for them. The only kid at home will be the one who already knows the big secret. They don't have worry about him at school. If he tells people his parents are travel agents and he's there on scholarship, the jerks might tease him about being a scholarship student, but no one is going to doubt or look into what they tell him. They might like the idea of someone who they can use to help plan fancy vacations during school breaks. 

19 hours ago, crgirl412 said:

I want to know more about that poor girl who takes and gives messages.  I think she works 24/7 and can't leave her apartment.  She's like Martha if she lives such a solitary life. 

I doubt it. Working 24/7 everyday would kill someone. I'm sure they work in shifts, and we just happen to always see her shift. 

19 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Hogwarts? Sounds more like Henry's aspiring to be the villain in an 80s teen movie. I'm not sure what to make of Elizabeth's reaction to Henry literally using the word "capitalize" to tell her he wants to become one of the ruling class and she seems to think it's a good idea, the woman who's obsessed with making sure Paige is as much like her as possible. 

It really is sad to think of the little we've seen of Philip's childhood contrasted with Henry feeling entitled to go to Eton since he's started doing his homework and is too good for public school. 

Henry's going to be a scholarship student at a fancy boarding school-he's not the villian in an 80s teen movie, he's the hero. Henry might have a point based on how he described the public schools, it seems like private schools may be a better option.  

19 hours ago, Mumbles said:

Henry going to Saint Edwards (aka Saint Paul's IRL) would resolve s lot of logistical problems for the gang, and he could get an in with all the elite that they may be able to exploit. Still, ideologically I can see why P&E would be Icked out by it on principle.

 

19 hours ago, crgirl412 said:

The Centre would be really into smart child of an illegal hobnobbing with the 1% as he would have access to homes, boats and cars as he would be BFFs with some of their kids AND some of these kids would soon be in positions of power just like their family.

Yes! It's like a win win all around. Henry is out of the house, which makes things easier for Philip and Elizabeth. The Centre is happy, because they have access beyond thier wildest dreams in the present, and it sets up Henry's future quite well. 

19 hours ago, SailorGirl said:

Oh, and on the shallow side, I am perfectly fine with as many long shots of Oleg sitting in a chair looking pensive as they want to give us. 

Me too! Also Oleg seems so much younger when he's with his parents, especially his father.

19 hours ago, Cosmosgravitation said:

What school does Kimberly go to? Maybe Henry's not being written out, maybe we're just getting that Henry/Kimberly hook up people were hoping for.

Kimberly is at a private school (if she's at a private school) in DC or Virginia. The school that Henry wants to go to is in New Hampshire. 

11 hours ago, Ina123 said:

I think all this jumping through hoops and investigation PGU are putting Oleg through is prepping him to be an easy mark for the CIA to recruit. He's so over that $hit.

Just maybe the PGU are digging into every facet of his life in the US to make sure he is completely clean with the intent to send him back to work on recruiting Stan. Meanwhile, Stan is being asked to back off his threats so that they can recruit Oleg. So, I can see Oleg back in the US (oh, please bring back the Rezidentura) to work Stan and the CIA using that encounter as pressure for Stan to recruit Oleg.

I've been kidding for a while about spin-off involving Stan and Oleg teaming up to fight crime, with Henry along as the computer/technology expert. This episode made me realize the show was actually created the perfect set up for it. Oleg and Stan are each tasked with recuiting the other (The KGB wants Oleg to recuit Stan, and the FBI wants Stan to recuit Oleg). Each one decides, to hell with that and they team up, walking away from thier agencies and never looking back. (I'm telling you, this totally could've been the premise for a 1980s action-adventure series). 

8 hours ago, Gabrielle Tracy said:

I thought exactly the same thing.  If memory recalls, I think I've read that in the old days Ivy League schools were traditional recruiting grounds for the CIA.  St. Paul's, em, St. Edward's sounds like a good start for that sort of thing. 

You are correct. The two big schools that were recruiting grounds for the CIA used to be Yale and American University (even though AU isn't an Ivy League school). 

5 hours ago, Ina123 said:

It's 1984. Coming out is a relatively recent action, especially for a teenager.

1984 isn't too early for someone to be coming out. Coming out goes at least as far back as the 1970s. Diana Ross had a song in 1980 titled "I'm Coming Out," which had a double meaning. 1984 is in the thick of the early years of the AIDS epidemic. This was the era when many people were coming out to thier families and friends as gay and diagnoised with HIV/AIDS. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Is Tuan Running A Con On The Americans?

The Eckerts' little boy makes a big move, Oleg decides what kind of agent he wants to be, and Stan gets the go-ahead for a mission of vengeance.

[kokapetl]

Martha's life isn't so bad. For someone in the USSR, she's got a good deal. She's got her own apartment, it's in a good location. The KGB pays her bills. And she's like an 8 in Russia. 

[Helena Dax]

I think that Gabriel was looking for some kind of connection, but he also wanted to see if Martha was doing well, as a revered Soviet hero.  Like is there any truth in the things he's been believing for decades?  Is there any pòssible happy ending for any of them? He isn't naive at all, but he still needs to believe there must be some purpose to the things they've done and are still doing. (I'm not sure Claudia needs that belief). But no, Martha isn't living like a Soviet hero, even if the KGB is helping her, and she's bitter and cold. So it's another lie he's been telling. 

Martha may be living in a nice apartment for Soviet standards, but she doesn't have Soviet standards. And the job Gabriel was talking about implies, I guess, working for the KGB, which means bertraying her country again. I doubt she's looking forward to it. 

I really can't tell if Tuan is lying or telling the truth. The fact that he wanted Philip and Elizabeth to spend more time with him makes me think he has nothing to hide, but I can't be sure, with this show.

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, misstwpherecool said:

 

Still not buying Henry's 'success'. Setting up story where he comes crashing down?

Totally forgot I wanted to say something like this. What would be great is if Henry didn't get in after all. The school saw one semester of effort after years of not and thought they'd wait and see in spite of his connection he has in Chris's dad. He could still have it as a possibility but not the instant reward. And he'd still have made the point that would change things at home.

Quote

Henry's going to be a scholarship student at a fancy boarding school-he's not the villian in an 80s teen movie, he's the hero. Henry might have a point based on how he described the public schools, it seems like private schools may be a better option.  

Henry doesn't have to be a scholarship student. His parents actually can pay. He's not the poor kid, he just assumes he's smart enough to get one. He's not the underdog just because his actual parents didn't go to the school. Not a total insider but not a fish out of water either. I suspect his public school is fine. He was making a pitch. 

Quote

But no, Martha isn't living like a Soviet hero, even if the KGB is helping her, and she's bitter and cold. So it's another lie he's been telling. 

I really don't think Gabriel's idea of her being a hero was different from this at all. Honestly heroes in the US often wind up in even worse circumstances. People don't remember heroes that way for long.

[Mrs Shibbles]

19 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

Your post made me think about the phone call that E made to Pasha's mom. It seems kind of strange to me they had to feature the actress who plays his mother and show us her speaking into the phone. The entire scene could have been so easily handled just by showing E on the phone and her telling P what she said. Why did we need to see her mouth the words? Even better, E could have just told P in passing, "I called Pasha's mom to see if she knew where Tuan was but she didn't." Seems to me there was no need at all to show her or spend the time it took to watch her say that she didn't know where Tuan was. It just seems strange and somewhat wasteful to spend the time and the production costs to show the actress talking on the phone. I may be acting somewhat petty here. But does anyone else share my feeling that something strange was going on as shown by the decision to show us both sides of that telephone conversation instead of just having E mention the results in passing?  Is it completely unimportant? Or is there some reason why it was important to show us this part of the conversation? It's just puzzling me.

I found it interesting / ironic that  Pascha's mom was speaking to him in Russian, and E would understand it, even though it was harmless information.

17 hours ago, RedHawk said:

 

Well, some nights P or E are supposed to be "home" from their jobs and in the house. We know they haven't been around much lately, but if he's got sense Tuan would not risk going on that long journey every night, just in case one of them did turn up unexpectedly as Elizabeth did. Harrisburg, PA, by bus, to make an "out of state" call? He could get on the DC Metro and ride to a stop in Maryland, find a nearby payphone, and get home in about 2 hours roundtrip. Is he going to Harrisburg every time or different locations by a long bus ride? Or does he only risk calling once every few weeks? If so, indeed, where was he the night before?

That was my thought.  Why so far away , when there are closer places considered "out of state"?

I liked Tuan's TRON poster in his room.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Mrs Shibbles

[TexasGal]

Oh, poor Martha and her sad baked potato.  In her sad apartment.  Wearing her sad clothes.  I now double my wish that she ends up with Oleg somehow.

[shura]

8 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

If Philip hadn't checked in with Kimmy, the information about hemorrhagic fever being used on mujahideen wouldn't have known, and that's another disillusionment for the Jennings.

This disillusionment kind of paints P and E as very naive, I think. They knew they were stealing a weapon in that virus. Did they really believe it was never going to be used as a weapon if need be? Who would promise such a thing to them? It was used against the very same enemies one of which Philip himself has killed before. Is it the repulsive nature of this weapon that shocks him so much? But it's not much different from what P and E used on Weinberger's housekeeper's son. They've seen and done all of this before, they shouldn't have been expecting anything different no matter what Gabriel told them otherwise (if he did). If they feel misled and betrayed by the Center now over this, that's Paige's level of naivete.

8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Also, on a shallow note, Oleg clearly got his looks from his mom.

That's a burn on Oleg's dad, right?

[tennisgurl]

3 minutes ago, shura said:

That's a burn on Oleg's dad, right?

More of an observation really :)

[RedHawk]

I like Oleg's dad, weak chin and all. He was so funny trying at first to act like the "Dating Game" dinner wasn't a set up. Then confessing that he wanted to help Oleg be happy. We're learning how deeply he cares about his family.

[magemaud]

23 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Also, I'm kind of shipping her with Oleg.  I can't help but wonder if those two melancholy somewhat-out-of-place ex-close-to-Stan types are destined for one another.

If Martha and Oleg had a baby, it sure would have amazing eyebrows! 

[scrb]

Oleg is screwed.

And Philip and Elizabeth are suspicious of the Center after 20-30 years?  Because of the bioweapon  they dug up from William's body is probably being used in Afghanistan?

What about the time Claudia had them kidnapped and beaten up to test whether they'd break?  That should be a tipoff that the Center doesn't care what they think, they're to jump if the Center, through Claudia or Gabriel, tells them to jump.

Edited May 4, 2017 by scrb

[shura]

23 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

I like Oleg's dad, weak chin and all. He was so funny trying at first to act like the "Dating Game" dinner wasn't a set up. Then confessing that he wanted to help Oleg be happy. We're learning how deeply he cares about his family.

He is all right, I guess, although seriously reptilian-looking. I was a bit puzzled at how defensive he became when Oleg mentioned that he knew about his mom's gulag past. There was really nothing there that had to trigger his defensiveness. All that "I could have left her, many people did, but I stuck with her because I am good" - that didn't seem to flow naturally from the situation. I guess the writers just needed him to expose how terrible the Soviet life was. Which, btw, is why I don't think Oleg is about to uncover just the mob behind the food distribution thing - there is nothing particularly Soviet about that, it's got to be the Party higher-ups.

Speaking of people's looks, does anyone else think Major Kuznetsov (?, the guy investigating Oleg) is seriously good-looking? He has this presence about him, this dignity and confidence that somehow still comes across as not disrespectful to the person he has in his sights.

[kokapetl]

Something like Lhassa Fever wouldn't discriminate between Mujehideen or Soviets, so it would be a bad idea to use it. 

I think Henry will go to boarding school, but not permanently. Something will probably go down at the Jennings house, and the writers couldn't figure out a way to have it take place around an oblivious kid. 

[sistermagpie]

12 minutes ago, scrb said:

What about the time Claudia had them kidnapped and beaten up to test whether they'd break?  That should be a tipoff that the Center doesn't care what they think, they're to jump if the Center, through Claudia or Gabriel, tells them to jump.

That made sense, though. The Centre was looking for a mole and they'd naturally test them for it.

Using a bioweapon in this way would be pretty stupid and I think a lot of soldiers would actually believe that it was just being studied for an antidote etc. rather than going to be dropped on people in a war. And that's the thing--Philip and Elizabeth aren't necessarily right about this. It actually would be pretty weird for them to grab this stuff and a short time later it's being used successfully on the battlefield. The Afghani they were talking about actually good have a disease that has nothing to do with a chunk of William's old flesh.  I mean, maybe it's just like the wheat--their paranoia makes them assume the worst.

4 minutes ago, shura said:

He is all right, I guess, although seriously reptilian-looking. I was a bit puzzled at how defensive he became when Oleg mentioned that he knew about his mom's gulag past. There was really nothing there that had to trigger his defensiveness. All that "I could have left her, many people did, but I stuck with her because I am good" - that didn't seem to flow naturally from the situation. I guess the writers just needed him to expose how terrible the Soviet life was. Which, btw, is why I don't think Oleg is about to uncover just the mob behind the food distribution thing - there is nothing particularly Soviet about that, it's got to be the Party higher-ups.

I took it as a specific note about the character. He feels guilty about it and is always defensive. That it didn't really fit with what Oleg was saying was intentional. He just had to bring up the camp and dad felt accused.

[TheBride]

11 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

 

So, maybe both these story lines are preparing us for the end of the show where both the USA and USSR's spies are arrested or killed or imprisoned for life. Maybe they are designed to prepare us so that we don't really care if terrible things happen to these people because of all the terrible things that have happened to other innocent victims as a result of the "work" they do?

The Russians are the spies. The FBI are law enforcers. There's a big difference! This show is not about American spies. It's about Russian spies acting like Americans in the USA.

[Gella]

I love this show. I really do. But no. Martha would not have that sad grey apartment (for one they were all wall-papered, and the furniture was all wrong) and she would have real food. Stores back in 1983-1985 had food. Especially in Moscow. The fruit/vegetable selection was not great, especially in the winter (unless one went to the market where they were more expensive), but the grocery and dairy shelves were not empty. And she would have been connected enough where she could shop in party stores where selections were really really good. She would have access to clothes. And makeup. And not that sad little potato. Like not even a "kotleta" on a plate?
Oleg's story fascinates me. He went from being a well connected playboy to... not quite sure what but it's interesting to watch.

[Bretton]

Seeing the women on here sexually objectify the male actors more frequently than any of the men here are doing so re: the actresses, is kind of throwing me for a loop. Like, my understanding of human nature is flip-flopping. 

[Bretton]

11 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Yet both of them actually went to a Russian version of that.  KGB training school.

Good food, excellent education, nice clothing, hobnobbing with the elite and powerful.

Getting raped by the elite and powerful.

[jjj]

6 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

I doubt it. Working 24/7 everyday would kill someone. I'm sure they work in shifts, and we just happen to always see her shift. 

The phone call center has had different call-takers (aside from the one who was killed several seasons ago, in the season where the other Russian "American" family was killed in the first episode).  I seem to remember an episode where the handoff occurred from one shift to the next, with the next shift person getting brought up to speed.  (I'm pretty sure I saw this, but would appreciate being corrected if not!)  Wasn't borscht involved?  ("Have some borscht, and have a good shift.") 

[RedHawk]

4 hours ago, shura said:

Speaking of people's looks, does anyone else think Major Kuznetsov (?, the guy investigating Oleg) is seriously good-looking? He has this presence about him, this dignity and confidence that somehow still comes across as not disrespectful to the person he has in his sights.

Yes, I was calling him "the Russian Russell Crowe".

[Ina123]

11 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

1984 isn't too early for someone to be coming out. Coming out goes at least as far back as the 1970s. Diana Ross had a song in 1980 titled "I'm Coming Out," which had a double meaning. 1984 is in the thick of the early years of the AIDS epidemic. This was the era when many people were coming out to thier families and friends as gay and diagnoised with HIV/AIDS. 

Not "too early" but extremely rare at that time and, again, especially for teenagers. Of course, AIDS/HIV forced many to be "outed" unwillingly.

10 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

Martha's life isn't so bad. For someone in the USSR, she's got a good deal. She's got her own apartment, it's in a good location. The KGB pays her bills. And she's like an 8 in Russia. 

Glad you included "for someone in the USSR". I bet if you asked her she would say she should have turned herself in.

[AAEBoiler]

Well, if Henry goes away to boarding school at least Phillip & Elizabeth's water bill would go down. Gotta look at the pros with the cons.

[SunnyBeBe]

I was a little curious about the conversation that Oleg had with his dad about his mom's imprisonment.  Yes, I suppose it was the kind of thing that you don't want to broadcast, but, I found his  father's comment rather odd.  When Oleg asked him why his dad never told him about it, he said that so Oleg could have the life that he was given.  What does that mean? How would having that knowledge, say, after he turned 18 years old, really deprive him of his education, status, comfort, etc.?  The dialogue from his dad during that conversation just seemed odd to me AS does the who story.  I don't get why a man's wife is taken to prison and a few years alter, he become Minister of Transportation.  Either he was a higher up when she was taken to prison OR he rose in status AFTER she was released from prison.  WHICH IS IT?  I find either scenario odd.  

[RedHawk]

I agree that there will be more to the story of Oleg's mom and the Gulag. Maybe Oleg will learn his father did something terrible, something that will forever damage his view of his father, just as we're thinking one day Paige and Henry may learn of all the lives taken and ruined by P&E.

[JasonCC]

I love how Martha was just not going to indulge in Gabriel's "oh once you know Russian you'll be so popular". She was lonely in DC, she's lonely here. Gullible Martha is no more.

Edited May 4, 2017 by JasonCC

[clb1016]

23 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I was a little curious about the conversation that Oleg had with his dad about his mom's imprisonment.  Yes, I suppose it was the kind of thing that you don't want to broadcast, but, I found his  father's comment rather odd.  When Oleg asked him why his dad never told him about it, he said that so Oleg could have the life that he was given.  What does that mean? How would having that knowledge, say, after he turned 18 years old, really deprive him of his education, status, comfort, etc.?  The dialogue from his dad during that conversation just seemed odd to me AS does the who story.  I don't get why a man's wife is taken to prison and a few years alter, he become Minister of Transportation.  Either he was a higher up when she was taken to prison OR he rose in status AFTER she was released from prison.  WHICH IS IT?  I find either scenario odd.  

You raise an interesting question.  My theory has been that Oleg's mother and other women in the camps were used for sex by the guards and whatever Soviet bigwigs were in the vicinity, based on her saying "I did what I had to do" and the father saying that a lot of men divorced their wives after they got home from the camps while he stayed married to her.  That doesn't seem like a good reason or him to be rewarded with his ministerial status, however, so I'm probably wrong (not for the first or last time).

[SunnyBeBe]

2 minutes ago, clb1016 said:

You raise an interesting question.  My theory has been that Oleg's mother and other women in the camps were used for sex by the guards and whatever Soviet bigwigs were in the vicinity, based on her saying "I did what I had to do" and the father saying that a lot of men divorced their wives after they got home from the camps while he stayed married to her.  That doesn't seem like a good reason or him to be rewarded with his ministerial status, however, so I'm probably wrong (not for the first or last time).

I've tried to think of some way it makes sense and I can't either. I suppose that we are just suppose to accept it.  I think Oleg thought it odd too. That's why he snooped around.  I would have thought he might have asked his dad how a highly placed lady got that treatment OR how a person with a ex-con wife grew up the political chain in the Soviet government.  But, no.....odd. 

[shura]

It's possible she was rehabilitated after Khrushchev exposed Stalin's abuses of power in 1956. Then her record probably wouldn't hold back her husband's career.

[SunnyBeBe]

5 minutes ago, shura said:

It's possible she was rehabilitated after Khrushchev exposed Stalin's abuses of power in 1956. Then her record probably wouldn't hold back her husband's career.

Well, Oleg did say that she got a pardon.  I suppose that helps, but, I got the impression that it was her husband who pardoned her years later and that would have been AFTER he rose to power. 

[curbcrusher]

42 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I was a little curious about the conversation that Oleg had with his dad about his mom's imprisonment.  Yes, I suppose it was the kind of thing that you don't want to broadcast, but, I found his  father's comment rather odd.  When Oleg asked him why his dad never told him about it, he said that so Oleg could have the life that he was given.  What does that mean? How would having that knowledge, say, after he turned 18 years old, really deprive him of his education, status, comfort, etc.?  The dialogue from his dad during that conversation just seemed odd to me AS does the who story.  I don't get why a man's wife is taken to prison and a few years alter, he become Minister of Transportation.  Either he was a higher up when she was taken to prison OR he rose in status AFTER she was released from prison.  WHICH IS IT?  I find either scenario odd.  

I don't really have a problem with this. The first thing to remember is that in a totalitarian environment people to go to prison not only because they break the law, but for a variety of other reasons as well. For instance Oleg's dad could have been an up and coming party member that some how offended a more powerful member of a different faction, and his wife was arrested and sent away to make a point. At some future date, Oleg's dad's faction asserts itself, or maybe the offended party dies, or Oleg's dad changes sides for some reason and Oleg's mom is released. For Oleg (and most likely his brother) to have this information growing up, or even as young adults, would impact the way they interact with others,  especially if Oleg's dad changed allegiances at some point (say the guy Oleg thinks of as Uncle Borov that helped him get into the KGB is the one that exerted pressure on his dad by sending mom to prison). It's best for you kid not to ever know that, so you don't tell them.

 

On another note, I think the meeting with priest was a forewarning. Just some basic Googling seems to indicate that the KGB used the Russian Orthodox Church as cover in a number of cases. In this case, what Phillip was told was: 1) My boss is drinking a lot and hanging out with the Frenchman. 2) I don't know how to report using the equipment Gabe left and 3) I hear a lot of things, I'm not sure what's important, but Gabe said is was all worthwhile. My prediction is that Phillip blowing the guy off will lead to (3) bitting he and Elizabeth in the rear.

[SunnyBeBe]

10 minutes ago, curbcrusher said:

I don't really have a problem with this. The first thing to remember is that in a totalitarian environment people to go to prison not only because they break the law, but for a variety of other reasons as well. For instance Oleg's dad could have been an up and coming party member that some how offended a more powerful member of a different faction, and his wife was arrested and sent away to make a point. At some future date, Oleg's dad's faction asserts itself, or maybe the offended party dies, or Oleg's dad changes sides for some reason and Oleg's mom is released. For Oleg (and most likely his brother) to have this information growing up, or even as young adults, would impact the way they interact with others,  especially if Oleg's dad changed allegiances at some point (say the guy Oleg thinks of as Uncle Borov that helped him get into the KGB is the one that exerted pressure on his dad by sending mom to prison). It's best for you kid not to ever know that, so you don't tell them.

 

On another note, I think the meeting with priest was a forewarning. Just some basic Googling seems to indicate that the KGB used the Russian Orthodox Church as cover in a number of cases. In this case, what Phillip was told was: 1) My boss is drinking a lot and hanging out with the Frenchman. 2) I don't know how to report using the equipment Gabe left and 3) I hear a lot of things, I'm not sure what's important, but Gabe said is was all worthwhile. My prediction is that Phillip blowing the guy off will lead to (3) bitting he and Elizabeth in the rear.

Thanks for that potential scenario about how Oleg's mom went to prison.  I suppose that's possible. 

Ref. the Russian priest. I didn't catch what his role is.  Why would he expect P to take care of his issues?  Does he not have a more direct route to report issues? If he is replacing Gabriel, wouldn't he be able to contact Claudia or call the special phone number and ask for help? I wonder what kind of equipment he was talking about. Did he really mean equipment or was that code word for something else?

 I wonder who the new person replacing Gabriel will be in a couple of months.  Why the lag?  Why wouldn't the KGB have someone ready to replace Gabriel.  They knew how old he was.  My goodness.....

Edited May 4, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[RedHawk]

18 minutes ago, curbcrusher said:

The first thing to remember is that in a totalitarian environment people to go to prison not only because they break the law, but for a variety of other reasons as well. For instance Oleg's dad could have been an up and coming party member that some how offended a more powerful member of a different faction, and his wife was arrested and sent away to make a point.

Yes, remember when Oleg's room was being searched how tense his mother was when Oleg was with her and not observing the search. She said, "They can find something even if it's not there." She may have gone to prison on completely false charges.

Also, after the search party left Oleg's dad was ready to make some calls, and he apparently had the power or thought he had the power to put a stop to the investigation, but Oleg told him not to. That had to tip his dad off that Oleg is in some way "guilty," and lucky that nothing had been found at that time.

I need to watch the scene with the priest again. I expect it to be very important later on.

Edited May 4, 2017 by RedHawk

[dubbel zout]

48 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

Also, after the search party left Oleg's dad was ready to make some calls, and he apparently had the power or thought he had the power to put a stop to the investigation, but Oleg told him not to. That had to tip his dad off that Oleg is in some way "guilty," and lucky that nothing had been found at that time.

Oleg might have told his father not to call so as not to escalate things further: His dad getting involved might indicate to someone there actually is something to hide. His father might be a minister, but if someone higher wants to cause problems, the dad can't stop it. I think Oleg wants to stop all of this as quickly as possible. His parents could be swept up in it, if something happens.

[sistermagpie]

9 hours ago, jjj said:

(I'm pretty sure I saw this, but would appreciate being corrected if not!)  Wasn't borscht involved?  ("Have some borscht, and have a good shift.") 

That was Philip who had the borscht. She was just sitting with him waiting for Martha to call. We didn't know about any shift change. But it would make sense if there was backup and we just see the one person so it's easier for us.

4 hours ago, Ina123 said:

Glad you included "for someone in the USSR". I bet if you asked her she would say she should have turned herself in.

But then, if she was in prison she'd probably say she should have left for the USSR. Prison is terrible. Plus, she'd be facing the shame of being a traitor. Seeing her family is great, but she'd also be seeing them having betrayed her country having taken a specific oath not to do that.

1 hour ago, curbcrusher said:

For Oleg (and most likely his brother) to have this information growing up, or even as young adults, would impact the way they interact with others,  especially if Oleg's dad changed allegiances at some point (say the guy Oleg thinks of as Uncle Borov that helped him get into the KGB is the one that exerted pressure on his dad by sending mom to prison). It's best for you kid not to ever know that, so you don't tell them.

Yeah, I agree. I can see reasons the father would think it was better to just not talk about it. Philip's mother possibly thought something similar.

1 hour ago, curbcrusher said:

My prediction is that Phillip blowing the guy off will lead to (3) bitting he and Elizabeth in the rear.

I hope not just because it's really silly the way everyone seems to think they're entitled to Philip and Elizabeth's personal attention. Not only are they responsible for keeping agent Tuan from feeling lonely Philip has to take on Gabriel's job, which is not his own, to talk to a priest who can't even be bothered to learn to use technology? Honestly, just stick it out for a few months. You've got a number to call if there's an emergency. 

[henripootel]

1 hour ago, clb1016 said:

My theory has been that Oleg's mother and other women in the camps were used for sex by the guards and whatever Soviet bigwigs were in the vicinity,

Am I the only one thinking that Oleg's dad isn't Oleg's biological dad?  

[dubbel zout]

24 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

You've got a number to call if there's an emergency. 

I thought that was one of the reasons Philip met with the priest in the first place, i.e., Philip was the emergency number.