S03.E04: Sabrosito

[Tikichick]

Mike's photos could be submitted to Adult Protective Services with a request for a welfare check.

[carrps]

3 hours ago, Tikichick said:

Have to admit, I'm completely lost in the timeline when it comes to that.  I had assumed the infamous pool scene hadn't occurred yet, but apparently it has according to those who follow along more sharply than I do.  

There were actually two BB "infamous" pool scenes. The first was when Max was shot -- that has already happened in BCS. The second is the poisoning of Don Eladio -- that happens years in the future from where we are now in BCS.

[Tikichick]

2 hours ago, carrps said:

There were actually two BB "infamous" pool scenes. The first was when Max was shot -- that has already happened in BCS. The second is the poisoning of Don Eladio -- that happens years in the future from where we are now in BCS.

I was referring to the first, in a rather oblique way for those avoiding BB plotline discussion.  I had actually managed to catch on to the fact that Don Eladio was in fact present in the scene from the current timeframe.  If we want to parse it fine enough, BB pool scene could refer to another plotline entirely.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Tikichick
missing word

[J----av]

On 2017-05-02 at 0:22 AM, Sharper2002 said:

I was wondering the same thing. I know Hector is doing this as a reaction to being busted by the DEA, but I'm assuming this wasn't the reaction that Gus wanted. He wanted to take Hector out of the game; he didn't want to have to carry his competitor's product. Right? I have a feeling that "agreement" won't hold for too long.

Ugh. Hector is such a deplorable human being. He's a deplorable human being that raised more deplorable human beings (Tuco and the shiny-suit Cousins) and I find him to have no redeemable qualities. And he's a petty man, too? Even worse.

I know Hector and Gus are both slinging meth and in an awful business, but at the very least, I think Gus did care about the well-being of his employees and customers. Yes, it would have been bad for business if anything happened to them, but I don't think he'd want them to get hurt because they're not in the "game", as Mike would say.

Shout out to Nacho for finally appearing! Also, another shout out to him for giving his counterpart a "WTF" look when the guy was blocking the mom and child's way. He was looking like, "Don't be a dick, man."

More Mike and Chuck scenes, please. Mike scaring Chuck away with the power drill was beautiful. That's how you handle an asshat like Chuck.

Looking forward to how next week will unfold in brother vs. brother. Hoping Kim will come to the rescue!

 

 Thats just how good Gus is. He doesn't give a fuck about the well-being of his employees and customers. This is the same guy who had a child murdered on BB 

[J----av]

On 2017-05-02 at 9:24 AM, nodorothyparker said:

It turned out to be a good episode, but if you're not hardcore into the BB universe 25 minutes of subtitles between people you mostly haven't been watching for 2 1/2 seasons is a rough start for 10 p.m. on a school night.  I almost gave up and went to bed.

Of course Jimmy's best man for the job is Mike, and Mike basically chasing Chuck upstairs with the power drill was terrific.  That entire sequence from start to finish was fantastic in showing that even though Jimmy may have been blindsided by Chuck he really does know him that well, and no surprise that Chuck can barely contain his disdain for a lowly handyman.  I was really struck by the scene afterward when Jimmy was trying to get Mike to agree that Chuck was indeed an asshole and Mike could only look at him like what does that have to do with the job and does it even matter.  It didn't really hit me until then that in all of Mike and Saul's interactions in BB, Mike knows all about Jimmy and his asshole brother issues too.

Mike seems so close to just wanting to be done with all of these people, even remarking that it's nice to be fixing something for a change.  But Kaylee needs her shiny new house in her shiny new school district and Mike is Mike, so there he is.  His late meeting with Gus was nicely done as you could almost see the wheels turning in his head that Gus with his genial outward demeanor and his understanding about "civilians" is someone he could do business with after all.  Giancarlo Esposito was doing nice work this episode in reminding us what a complete split personality Gus can be, even though I doubt his employees really cared all that much about his stirring speech as much as they cared that they were being extremely well compensated as far as fast-food employees go for whatever weirdness their boss is involved in.

Kim really went all in this episode, which Jimmy was clearly aware of and appreciating it and that kind of breaks my heart a little bit knowing that it likely won't end well for her either.  Of course Chuck is such a pedantic asshole that he would want restitution for a cassette tape.  Jimmy's "apology" was extremely pointed in saying "no brother should ever treat his brother that way" but I'm sure in his self-righteousness that went completely over Chuck's head too.

 Chuck is an ass, but he is brilliant and understands Jimmy better then anyone. He knew what Jimmy meant

[J----av]

On 2017-05-02 at 1:03 PM, Bryce Lynch said:

Jesse came up the magnet idea.  Mike and Walt were bickering, with Walt talking about getting a "device" entered into evidence and Mike accusing him of wanting to commit a whole other crime and then kill a bunch of cops.  Jesse, sitting off to the side, keeps saying, "What about a magnet?"  

Stealing the methylamine  from the freight train tanker and replacing it with water was also Jesse's idea.  There seemed to be a pattern where Jesse would come up with a great idea, it would work, but then Walt  would push things to far causing it to backfire.

Walt going too hard on the magnet controls, cause the picture frame of Gus and Schuler to be broken revealing the off shore bank accounts.  Walt trying to get every last drop of methylamine almost cause them to get caught and might have contributed to the Drew Sharp shooting.

 

Both of these are probably not true.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, J----av said:

 Chuck is an ass, but he is brilliant and understands Jimmy better then anyone. He knew what Jimmy meant

Yes, even though while Jimmy was giving the no-brother-should-treat-his-sibling-that-way "apology" we just saw Chuck's shadowed profile, you could see the tensing of his facial muscles, and the camera was placed so that Chuck's profile was almost as if it was the viewer's looking at Jimmy across the room. It told what Chuck was thinking and feeling as clearly as if it was written in a novel.

[FortKnox]

12 hours ago, carrps said:

There were actually two BB "infamous" pool scenes. The first was when Max was shot -- that has already happened in BCS. The second is the poisoning of Don Eladio -- that happens years in the future from where we are now in BCS.

Which is why when the show opened up on the pool I yelled out, "Oh shit", because I figured someone was going to die and I kept waiting for that to happen.

Was kinda disappointed when that didn't happen. Lol

[Bryce Lynch]

8 hours ago, J----av said:

 

Both of these are probably not true.

The Drew Sharp thing might be a stretch.  But it is possible that if Walt had stopped pumping the methylamine when Mike told him the track was clear and the train was about to move, and they immediately started packing up their gear, they would have been in a less compromising position when Drew Sharp saw them.  He might have only seen a bunch of guys hanging out in the desert, like he was, and Todd might not have felt the need to shoot him.

I think the magnet thing is unquestionable.  When they did the test at the scrapyard, the laptop was fried well before it was ripped out of Jesse's hands.  Fring's laptop would have been fried well before Walt turned the power all the way up, and caused all the evidence to fly all over the room.  Plus, Hank said that the laptop was all encrypted, so they probably wouldn't have gotten anything off of it anyway.

The authorities had no idea that the offshore bank account numbers were hidden behind the photograph, until the police re-inventoried all the evidence and saw the numbers behind the photo in the damaged frame.  If the frame doesn't get broken, the police and DEA probably never find out about Mike and his guys, Mike doesn't get killed and Walt doesn't get connected with Jack and the Nazi's to kill Mike's guys in prison.  

[Bryce Lynch]

9 hours ago, J----av said:

 Chuck is an ass, but he is brilliant and understands Jimmy better then anyone. He knew what Jimmy meant

I agree, Chuck knew Jimmy was really "apologizing" to himself, on behalf of Chuck.

The only thing Chuck doesn't understand about Jimmy is how much Jimmy loved, admired and respected him.  

He immediately knew Jimmy had pulled the billboard "rescue" scam and knew Jimmy was hiding something from him when he didn't bring the local paper.

He figured out that Jimmy had left the paperwork for the wills at his house, so he  would do them.  I think he might have misinterpreted Jimmy's motive on that one.  I think Jimmy wanted Chuck to get engaged in the law again, as a sort of therapy, though he probably didn't mind having his work done for him as well.

And, of course, Chuck totally figured out every detail about Jimmy's cut and paste scam, including him bribing the copy shop guy.  

Chuck also knew that when Jimmy found out about the tape, he would try to steal or destroy it.  What he didn't realize is how deeply hurt Jimmy would be and that he would break down the door in broad daylight, rather than sneak in "under cover of darkness".  Again, that is a result of Chuck not understanding how much he means to Jimmy.

[Tikichick]

3 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I agree, Chuck knew Jimmy was really "apologizing" to himself, on behalf of Chuck.

The only thing Chuck doesn't understand about Jimmy is how much Jimmy loved, admired and respected him.  

He immediately knew Jimmy had pulled the billboard "rescue" scam and knew Jimmy was hiding something from him when he didn't bring the local paper.

He figured out that Jimmy had left the paperwork for the wills at his house, so he  would do them.  I think he might have misinterpreted Jimmy's motive on that one.  I think Jimmy wanted Chuck to get engaged in the law again, as a sort of therapy, though he probably didn't mind having his work done for him as well.

And, of course, Chuck totally figured out every detail about Jimmy's cut and paste scam, including him bribing the copy shop guy.  

Chuck also knew that when Jimmy found out about the tape, he would try to steal or destroy it.  What he didn't realize is how deeply hurt Jimmy would be and that he would break down the door in broad daylight, rather than sneak in "under cover of darkness".  Again, that is a result of Chuck not understanding how much he means to Jimmy.

The tragic irony, Chuck is attempting to destroy the person who embodies what Chuck has wanted most -- love and unquestioned respect of his intellect, his legal acumen and his moral superiority.   

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, Tikichick said:

The tragic irony, Chuck is attempting to destroy the person who embodies what Chuck has wanted most -- love and unquestioned respect of his intellect, his legal acumen and his moral superiority.   

Another irony is, that while I think Chuck is right to fear Slippin Jimmy with a law degree, I am pretty sure Jimmy became a lawyer largely out of admiration for Chuck and wanting to be like him.  I think Chuck assumes Jimmy became a lawyer to run more profitable scams.  

[Tikichick]

2 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Another irony is, that while I think Chuck is right to fear Slippin Jimmy with a law degree, I am pretty sure Jimmy became a lawyer largely out of admiration for Chuck and wanting to be like him.  I think Chuck assumes Jimmy became a lawyer to run more profitable scams.  

I absolutely believe Chuck assumed Jimmy had bad motivations in becoming a lawyer.  I also absolutely believe it appealed to Chuck's vanity to watch his little brother attempt to imitate him by becoming a lawyer, always secure in his belief Jimmy would never be an ounce of the lawyer he was himself.  No doubt in my mind it rattled Chuck's ego to understand that Jimmy uncovered the Sandpiper scheme using legitimate talents Chuck knows down deep he himself does not and will never have, genuine people skills, a mutual likeabilty factor wherein people like Jimmy and Jimmy genuinely likes a lot of people he encounters.  

I'd genuinely like to know some of Chuck's backstory to find out how he's become the twisted figure we've come to see thus far. 

[scenario]

I wonder if the judges at the New Mexico Bar Association hearings will be as cooperative of Chucks request to have no electronics at the hearing? No electronic court recorders, lights off, etc. 

[scenario]

On 5/4/2017 at 11:26 PM, J----av said:

 

 Thats just how good Gus is. He doesn't give a fuck about the well-being of his employees and customers. This is the same guy who had a child murdered on BB 

I disagree. I think Gus cares about the well being of his employees but probably with little or no emotion behind it. He cares about him the same way a mechanic cares about his tools. It costs a lot of time, money and effort to train them the way he wants them and he doesn't want to lose them. He wants them happy and hardworking. 

Gus also cares about his customers the same way. They are ultimately his secondary source of income and cover for his primary source of income. He wants them happy and satisfied with his service. He doesn't want them calling the health department or any other government agency because he doesn't want anyone to start looking around. 

He is very good at making people feel that he cares about them personally. He doesn't care about them personally as people. He cares about them as useful tools. 

In some ways that is better than many bosses I've had. Gus looks at his employees as valuable tools that need to be taken care of. Many bosses I've had look at their employees as annoyances they'd really rather not deal with but have to. 

[MisterBluxom]

On 2017-05-04 at 11:06 AM, Ottis said:

Me, neither, no matter what Gus said. Life is short and those were mostly kids. There are lots of similar jobs available where scary drug dealers don't show up.

I hear you, and I'm not quite there, yet. BCS has taken great pains to show us how Jimmy cares for Chuck, even after Chuck has done all kinds of shitty things to Jimmy. This might be the last straw, but if it is, it negates so much painstaking storytelling. I can't get there, that Jimmy has lost empathy. It isn't who we have been shown he is - even in the future scene in the mall, where he stands up and tells the kid to get a lawyer. So I keep wondering if Jimmy has something else in mind besides committing Chuck, or if he actually has no plan and Howard (or Kim, or someone else) is the key to what happens to Chuck.

I would be very happy to see Chuck get a just comeuppance. If anyone deserves to get a swift and painful uppercut, it would be Chuck the Cluck!.  He has been getting away with all kinds of crazy and nasty shenanians for far too long - way too long.  IMHO, he is deserving of a great big smackdown and a nasty uppercut delivered by someone who would really enjoy it.

20 hours ago, Tikichick said:

The tragic irony, Chuck is attempting to destroy the person who embodies what Chuck has wanted most -- love and unquestioned respect of his intellect, his legal acumen and his moral superiority.   

For what it's worth, your description of what Chuck has wanted most,  makes me drool with anticipation of seeing Chuck getting what he deserves.

I can't wait. I just can't wait!

Edited May 6, 2017 by MissBluxom

[scenario]

There's a LPH training video on the official BCS website. It's not really a spoiler because it doesn't talk about anything that is going to happen. I found the video funny in part because Lyle is following the video's rules on how to handle a difficult customer to the letter.

[ByTor]

On 5/5/2017 at 4:35 PM, Tikichick said:

Jimmy uncovered the Sandpiper scheme using legitimate talents Chuck knows down deep he himself does not and will never have, genuine people skills, a mutual likeabilty factor wherein people like Jimmy and Jimmy genuinely likes a lot of people he encounters.  

Hell, even the judge commended Jimmy for practicing elder law.  It makes me sad that Jimmy becomes "criminal lawyer' Saul, I loved his interaction with the seniors, and they seemed to love him too.

[SnarkyTart]

I have a dichotomy.  I want Chuck to get the biggest smackdown imaginable, crumble into a million tiny shattered pieces, and be locked up in an institution for the rest of his miserable life.   On the other hand, I also want Chuck to remain at least as a semi-active character on the show, perhaps not as prominent as he's been, but weaving in and out of the storyline from time to time.   Michael McKean has been killing it in this role, and he and Odenkirk have terrific chemistry.  The Jimmy/Chuck relationship is a classic story well told, as old and deep as time.     Maybe they could re-boot the Chuck character...have him be disbarred, completely humiliated, with his vaunted reputation well beyond repair...then have him totally Break Bad.  I can think of a lot of ways the show could make that happen, while making Chuck a more riveting character, making the Saul/Chuck relationship even more intense, darker, and scarier.       

[ShellSeeker]

22 hours ago, scenario said:

I disagree. I think Gus cares about the well being of his employees but probably with little or no emotion behind it. He cares about him the same way a mechanic cares about his tools. It costs a lot of time, money and effort to train them the way he wants them and he doesn't want to lose them. He wants them happy and hardworking. 

Gus also cares about his customers the same way. They are ultimately his secondary source of income and cover for his primary source of income. He wants them happy and satisfied with his service. He doesn't want them calling the health department or any other government agency because he doesn't want anyone to start looking around. 

He is very good at making people feel that he cares about them personally. He doesn't care about them personally as people. He cares about them as useful tools. 

In some ways that is better than many bosses I've had. Gus looks at his employees as valuable tools that need to be taken care of. Many bosses I've had look at their employees as annoyances they'd really rather not deal with but have to. 

Yes! I've been trying to figure out what makes Gus tick in this regard and I just couldn't put it into words. This is a perfect analogy. On the surface he seems to be concerned and caring, but of course we've seen behind the facade and know how ruthless and deadly he can be. 

[ByTor]

@SnarkyTart, I completely agree with you about Chuck.  Now, I'm no insider and know nothing with regard to spoilers (in fact, I was furious with AMC for blabbing Gus' return all over the place, I would have loved the surprise of seeing the resurrection of Pollos!), but I have a feeling Chuck's getting killed off, and that is what will push Jimmy right over the edge.

Edited May 7, 2017 by ByTor

[Wiendish Fitch]

Quote

 

  ON 5/6/2017 AT 1:05 AM, SCENARIO SAID:

I disagree. I think Gus cares about the well being of his employees but probably with little or no emotion behind it. He cares about him the same way a mechanic cares about his tools. It costs a lot of time, money and effort to train them the way he wants them and he doesn't want to lose them. He wants them happy and hardworking. 

Gus also cares about his customers the same way. They are ultimately his secondary source of income and cover for his primary source of income. He wants them happy and satisfied with his service. He doesn't want them calling the health department or any other government agency because he doesn't want anyone to start looking around. 

He is very good at making people feel that he cares about them personally. He doesn't care about them personally as people. He cares about them as useful tools. 

In some ways that is better than many bosses I've had. Gus looks at his employees as valuable tools that need to be taken care of. Many bosses I've had look at their employees as annoyances they'd really rather not deal with but have to. 

Quote

Yes! I've been trying to figure out what makes Gus tick in this regard and I just couldn't put it into words. This is a perfect analogy. On the surface he seems to be concerned and caring, but of course we've seen behind the facade and know how ruthless and deadly he can be. 

 

I second this. Gus is so good at presenting a kindly, professional, caring facade, even I bought it... even though I watched every single episode of Breaking Bad, and knew what he was capable of. Always remember: this is the man who calmly threatened the life of Walt's baby daughter, and you know he would do it, and you know he'd lose little to no sleep over it. 

Gus has become one of my favorite TV villains ever. Giancarlo Esposito has a special gift of playing various despicable characters (Buggin' Out in Do the Right Thing comes to mind).

[ByTor]

I have never seen Giancarlo Esposito in anything else, but it is amazing how he pulls off evil hard-ass drug lord/mild mannered business owner/friend to law enforcement all at the same time.  Probably my favorite Gus moment was when he provided what seemed like endless amounts of chicken to the DEA when that annoying twin was in the hospital.  You couldn't help but see him as a good guy, even knowing what he was!

Edited May 7, 2017 by ByTor

[Auntie Anxiety]

On 5/4/2017 at 11:06 AM, Ottis said:

I hear you, and I'm not quite there, yet. BCS has taken great pains to show us how Jimmy cares for Chuck, even after Chuck has done all kinds of shitty things to Jimmy. This might be the last straw, but if it is, it negates so much painstaking storytelling. I can't get there, that Jimmy has lost empathy.

As I see it, Chuck trying to screw Kim out of the Mesa Verde account was all Jimmy needed to push him over the edge.

[Jextella]

There is lots of speculation about what happens to Kim.  There is even a theory that she kills herself based on a possible Easter Egg where she stands on a rooftop smoking a cigarette and says she should just jump off the roof....or something along those lines.

We don't see her at all in BB so she's out of the equation in one shape or form.

My guess is that Jimmy's breaking point with Chuck hasn't happened yet.  It will happen when Jimmy loses Kim.  IMO, hurting Kim would be the only thing that flips Jimmy's switch with his brother.  

Chuck brings Jimmy down and he won't think twice about using Kim to do it.  If Kim does survive, she'll have to choose sides and I suspect she'll choose Chuck's only because Jimmy is a sinking ship and she's going down with it.

Losing Kim will be the turning point in the entire story.

Somewhat off topic....I'm loving the show but I'm also finding it very depressing in contrast to Breaking Bad.  Watching Jesse spiral downwards in Walter White's  clutches was painful and sad but the drama of the rest of the story, i.e. with Hank, the drug dealers, kids, wives, etc. balanced it out.  Plus, Walt was still in the game, and we could route for him - and Jesse.  We didn't know how it played out. 

With BCS, all we see is Jimmy going down, down, down.  And, we know from BB that it doesn't get better.  Walt had a bit of success and a bit of glory along the way.  

I read an article in which Vince talked about how long BCS could run.  He said indefinitely because Saul doesn't have an expiration date like Walt, i.e. cancer.  The other interesting thing he said is that this also provides flexibility.  The writers can take us to pre-BB days but also to post-BB days.   Maybe there is hope for Jimmy - and Kim - in post-BB era????

Personally, I would love to see Jimmy/Saul achieve a little success along the way.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Jextella

[scenario]

2 hours ago, Jextella said:

There is lots of speculation about what happens to Kim.  There is even a theory that she kills herself based on a possible Easter Egg where she stands on a rooftop smoking a cigarette and says she should just jump off the roof....or something along those lines.

We don't see her at all in BB so she's out of the equation in one shape or form.

My guess is that Jimmy's breaking point with Chuck hasn't happened yet.  It will happen with Jimmy loses Kim.  IMO, hurting Kim would be the only thing that flips Jimmy's switch with his brother.  

Chuck brings Jimmy down and he won't think twice about using Kim along the way.  If Kim does survive, she'll have to choose sides and I suspect she'll choose Chuck's only because Jimmy is a sinking ship and she's going down with the ship.

Losing Kim will be the turning point in the entire story.

Somewhat off topic....I'm loving the show but also finding it very depressing in contrast to Breaking Bad.  Watching Jesse spiral downwards in Walter White's  clutches was painful and sad but the drama of the rest of the story, i.e. with Hank and the drug dealers, etc. balanced it out.  Plus, Walt was still in the game, and we could route for him - and Jesse.  We didn't know how it played out. 

With BCS, all we see is Jimmy going down, down, down.  And, we know from BB that it doesn't get better.  Walt had a bit of success and a bit of glory along the way.  I hope we see Jimmy get something good out of all this.

I read an article in which Vince talked about how long BCS could run.  He said indefinitely because he doesn't have an expiration date like Walt, i.e. cancer.  The other interesting thing he said is that this also provides flexibility.  The writers can take us to pre-BB days but also to post-BB days.   Maybe there is hope for Jimmy - and Kim - in post-BB era????

Personally, I would love to see Jimmy/Saul achieve a little success along the way.

Just because we don't see Kim doesn't mean she isn't there. It's unlikely that they are still a couple but it's possible they are still friends. There are a lot of possibilities.

They've broken up but they're still friends and she's still a lawyer.

They've broken up, she hates him but she's still a lawyer.

She's in prison.

She's moved to another state.

She's disbarred and working at something else.

She's in a long term hospital.

She's dead.

[dbro]

On 5/3/2017 at 4:50 AM, Bryce Lynch said:

Yet, he takes 2 of his goons to LPH and basically takes over the restaurant, first holding the customers hostage and then kicking them out.  Doesn't he realize this could bring unwanted attention from law enforcement?

I could understand if he and his goons just sat in the store all day, looking scarey and waiting for Gus, like Marco and Leonel did.  But, Hector was way too obvious.

Why bring attention on himself and his new mule?

He could have simply contacted Gus and arranged a meeting.

Agree totally, this for me was a plot flaw that I just can’t get my head around, I mean nobody in that position with that amount of experience behind him could be that stupid.  I find it hard to believe that not one person out of all those employees and especially patrons did not have the presence of mind to contact the police.  It reminded of a scene that prompted me to quit watching the new Hawaii 50.  McGarrett is holed up in a barber shop being attacked by automatic fire from various different angles, yet with hundreds of rounds being fired over about a 20 to 30 minute time period absolutely no backup shows up.  WTF!  Five-0 has got more plot holes than swiss cheese but I stuck with it for awhile because I have traveled there a few times and just needed to get my weekly fantasy escape from the rainy wet coast weather here.  That pushed me over the edge though, that was it, enough Five-0, couldn’t take it any longer. As for BCS, nothing will chase me away, I’m in for the duration. Loved BB and love this show!

Edited May 7, 2017 by dbro

[scenario]

41 minutes ago, dbro said:

Agree totally, this for me was a plot flaw that I just can’t get my head around, I mean nobody in that position with that amount of experience behind him could be that stupid.  I find it hard to believe that not one person out of all those employees and especially patrons did not have the presence of mind to contact the police.  It reminded of a scene that prompted me to quit watching the new Hawaii 50.  McGarrett is holed up in a barber shop being attacked by automatic fire from various different angles, yet with hundreds of rounds being fired over about a 20 to 30 minute time period absolutely no backup shows up.  WTF!  Five-0 has got more plot holes than swiss cheese but I stuck with it for awhile because I have traveled there a few times and just needed to get my weekly fantasy escape from the rainy wet coast weather here.  That pushed me over the edge though, that was it, enough Five-0, couldn’t take it any longer. As for BCS, nothing will chase me away, I’m in for the duration. Loved BB and love this show!

Not all drug lords are brilliant. Hector got into power by brute force and intimidation. When challenged, he attacks his enemies. If you read about real leaders of real organized crime organizations, not all of them were smart. Brute force leadership is pretty common. Also, he probably had lookouts.

Hawaii Five-O was just as bad the first time around and it lasted 12 seasons. My favorite scene was when Dano was being shot at by a half a dozen gunman and hid behind a lawn chair for cover. I couldn't stop laughing. The original five-O had scenes in every other episode where they found something like a candy wrapper at the crime scene and McGarrett turned to his minions and tells them to find out who bought that bar of candy. A minute later they come back and tell him they got lucky. At the 3rd place they checked, a clerk remembered a suspicious looking guy bought a candy bar. He just happened to notice the guy's licence plate number. 

[ShadowFacts]

As to customers calling the cops, what are they going to report, three menacing looking guys loitering?  The DEA is already on to Hector, they can follow him and coordinate with Albuquerque police if they want to. There's also a fear factor/chilling effect of people not wanting to get involved.  More than once I've had police run my info when I've called in a report.  I have a common name and someone with my name apparently has outstanding warrants and it's just unpleasant to deal with.

[PeterPirate]

6 hours ago, Jextella said:

Somewhat off topic....I'm loving the show but also finding it very depressing in contrast to Breaking Bad.  Watching Jesse spiral downwards in Walter White's  clutches was painful and sad but the drama of the rest of the story, i.e. with Hank and the drug dealers, etc. balanced it out.  Plus, Walt was still in the game, and we could route for him - and Jesse.  We didn't know how it played out. 

With BCS, all we see is Jimmy going down, down, down.  And, we know from BB that it doesn't get better.  Walt had a bit of success and a bit of glory along the way.  I hope we see Jimmy get something good out of all this.

I read an article in which Vince talked about how long BCS could run.  He said indefinitely because he doesn't have an expiration date like Walt, i.e. cancer.  The other interesting thing he said is that this also provides flexibility.  The writers can take us to pre-BB days but also to post-BB days.   Maybe there is hope for Jimmy - and Kim - in post-BB era????

Personally, I would love to see Jimmy/Saul achieve a little success along the way.

I wonder if this show will lose viewers if people stop rooting for Jimmy, or if he does something--or just attempts or recommends doing something--particularly heinous.  

[DangerousMinds]

On May 2, 2017 at 0:05 PM, Bryce Lynch said:

I am starting to think the producers have made a conscience decision not to try to make Mike, Gus or other BB characters like Don Eladio look as young or younger than they did in Breaking Bad.  It seems like they have decided that rather hiring the makeup team from Star Trek and trying to make guys look 20 years younger than they really are, by slapping 10 pounds of makeup on them, they are just going to show them as they are and let the audience get used to it.  

Hopefully, in a few weeks, our minds will be reprogrammed to think that they were supposed to look that old in 2002 or 2003.

I honestly am not seeing that much difference in their appearances.

On May 2, 2017 at 0:34 PM, Bannon said:

If the house doesn't have electricity, and thus no telephone (given cell phones are unacceptable, also), then, in addition to the unacceptable risk of document destruction by fire (given the camp lanterns), Chuck, the only occupant, even if he isnt incapacitated, or becomes capacitated as a burglary takes place, or fire starts, has no means to call 911. He can't have a security system. I doubt there is a single law office in Albuquerque without one, and any lawyer who is keeping vital documents in his home for extended periods of time really should be epected to have one, given Albuquerque's high burglary rate, even in good neighborhoods. It really is indisupatable that any location that is used to store vital documents for extended periods of time should have a telephone and/or a security system.

Our disagreement here is kind of minor. We agree that Chuck Howard, and HHM are on the precipice of a disaster, and it is being portrayed in a very entertaining fashion.     

Land lines don't always need electricity to function.

[DangerousMinds]

2 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

As to customers calling the cops, what are they going to report, three menacing looking guys loitering?  The DEA is already on to Hector, they can follow him and coordinate with Albuquerque police if they want to. There's also a fear factor/chilling effect of people not wanting to get involved.  More than once I've had police run my info when I've called in a report.  I have a common name and someone with my name apparently has outstanding warrants and it's just unpleasant to deal with.

You can call 911 without giving your name or any personal information.

[PeterPirate]

1 hour ago, DangerousMinds said:

I honestly am not seeing that much difference in their appearances.

Land lines don't always need electricity to function.

Technically, the electricity flows into the phone from the landline. The phone still uses electricity to function. I don't know if it's more or less than the amount of electricity used by the average battery-powered cell phone. 

 

26 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

You can call 911 without giving your name or any personal information.

I've always wondered if a smart lawyer could have gotten hold of a recording of the call Mike made before he confronted Tuco. Mike only slightly altered his voice.  

 

Also, Hawaii 5-0 had the best theme song ever. 

Edited May 8, 2017 by PeterPirate

[TVFan17]

8 hours ago, Jextella said:

 

I read an article in which Vince talked about how long BCS could run.  He said indefinitely because he doesn't have an expiration date like Walt, i.e. cancer.  The other interesting thing he said is that this also provides flexibility.  The writers can take us to pre-BB days but also to post-BB days.   Maybe there is hope for Jimmy - and Kim - in post-BB era????

 

I think that the possibilities are intriguing, because we are already in pre-BB days, but the story can jump back to pre-BCS, and then forward to mid-BB days (for example, scenes of Saul and BB characters in the middle of the Walter White mess, or maybe scenes of Saul's life during that BB time frame that we did not see in BB), and then to post-BB days -- all the way to what Gene does in his Cinnabon life.  I don't think that what we have seen of Gene will be "it."  That can't be all there is.  Somehow, some way, he will probably escape his Gene/Cinnabon life and try to reconnect with Kim (if she is alive and well), or she will go and find him, or Gene/Saul/Jimmy will connect with Jesse to see if Jesse is okay wherever he is, or he will contact Badger and Skinny Pete to do something for him, or we will see a reunion of Jimmy and Chuck as brothers (assuming Chuck is alive and well), etc.  Something has got to happen with Gene beyond what we have seen, and I don't want to assume the worst, such as that he takes his own life or something awful.  

There is also more of the Gus story (pre-BCS and pre-BB) than what we have been shown or will be shown, and that could be fascinating to explore.

However... I just listened to a portion of an interview with Michael McKean (it was on a random channel on Sirius-XM -- not sure which one it was), and he said that he thinks that Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould are probably going to do the same thing with Better Call Saul that they did with Breaking Bad as far as planning for a fixed number of seasons and then wrapping it up.  He said he thinks that's already the plan.  Now, to be clear, (from the part that I heard) MM did not specify exactly how many seasons he thinks Vince and Peter have planned for BCS -- just that they have a similar plan for BCS as what they did with BB.  And it was mentioned -- either by MM or by the interviewer -- that BB lasted a little bit longer than the originally planned timeframe, but that it was always intended to just be a story that unfolded in a fixed amount of time and then would come to an end.  (I am paraphrasing, but that was the essence of it.)

So I, personally, don't think BCS will run for too many more seasons.  Maybe Gilligan and Gould have a specific number of seasons in mind, if AMC doesn't cancel the show before they get to that number.  I am guessing that 5 or 6 seasons will be it.  We might see a lot of jumping back and forth in the timeline in the last couple of seasons (by then I am hoping that this endless drama with Chuck will have taken a different turn), but I don't think BCS is going to go on and on and overstay its welcome (as I think a show such as The Walking Dead is beginning to do).

[Jextella]

5 hours ago, TVFan17 said:

So I, personally, don't think BCS will run for too many more seasons.  Maybe Gilligan and Gould have a specific number of seasons in mind, if AMC doesn't cancel the show before they get to that number.  I am guessing that 5 or 6 seasons will be it.  We might see a lot of jumping back and forth in the timeline in the last couple of seasons (by then I am hoping that this endless drama with Chuck will have taken a different turn), but I don't think BCS is going to go on and on and overstay its welcome (as I think a show such as The Walking Dead is beginning to do).

I believe Vince said he anticipates the show will need about the same number of seasons as BB for Jimmy's story to play out.  While it is possible to jump timelines, I agree that they probably won't do too much of that.  I don't think they need to to get us from Saul to Jimmy.

[Captanne]

it also depends on people's contracts and availability.  IIRC, wasn't Fring tricky to get back because of earlier conflicts?  The BB guys have moved on.

[Bannon]

10 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

I honestly am not seeing that much difference in their appearances.

Land lines don't always need electricity to function.

They don't need electric service from the power company. They do use electricity, in a manner that Chuck would deem intolerable, due to his mental illness

[Bryce Lynch]

On 5/5/2017 at 4:35 PM, Tikichick said:

I absolutely believe Chuck assumed Jimmy had bad motivations in becoming a lawyer.  I also absolutely believe it appealed to Chuck's vanity to watch his little brother attempt to imitate him by becoming a lawyer, always secure in his belief Jimmy would never be an ounce of the lawyer he was himself.  No doubt in my mind it rattled Chuck's ego to understand that Jimmy uncovered the Sandpiper scheme using legitimate talents Chuck knows down deep he himself does not and will never have, genuine people skills, a mutual likeabilty factor wherein people like Jimmy and Jimmy genuinely likes a lot of people he encounters.  

I'd genuinely like to know some of Chuck's backstory to find out how he's become the twisted figure we've come to see thus far. 

I'm not sure I consider Chuck to be "twisted", at least not by the way I define twisted.  When I think of a "twisted" person, I think of one who is evil and generally enjoys harming other people. or doesn't care about harming other people if doing so help fulfill his desires.

Chuck is certainly mentally ill, falsely believing that electricity is harmful to him.  He is also pedantic, self righteous and condescending.  But those traits, while annoying don't add up to "twisted" in my book.  Maybe Chuck is truly "twisted", but I haven't seen any evidence of it yet. 

When his ne'er do well, con artist, younger brother was facing a felony sex crime charge, he put a big case on hold, traveled half way across the country, got him out of trouble, gave him a job and helped him get his life together.  Sure, he didn't want that con artist little brother to become a lawyer, at least not at any firm he was associated with, but he didn't try to block him from starting his own practice and actually encouraged him and gave him good advice.  

Was it wrong for him to deceive Jimmy and let him think Howard was the "pig f@$&er" who kept him from being hired as an associate at the firm?  Sure.  But it was also understandable that he didn't want his only, living family member to hate and resent him.  To me, that  doesn't add up to twisted.

He latest plotting against Jimmy, was in response to Jimmy betraying him horribly, by breaking into his client's files, doctoring them and causing Chuck great distress and professional embarrassment, at a time when he was already mentally and emotionally fragile.  I can't really blame Chuck for running a counter scam on Jimmy to catch him in his scam.  

To me twisted, would be more like a person who arranges chow line shankings of his own clients, launders money for violent drug kingpins, wants to put a toxic meth lab behind the skee ball machines at a Laser Tag place, etc.. 

All that said, I still root for Jimmy and hope he gets the best of Chuck in their battle.  Vince Gilligan is a master at getting people to root for the bad guy.

[Bryce Lynch]

On 5/4/2017 at 11:26 PM, J----av said:

 

 Thats just how good Gus is. He doesn't give a fuck about the well-being of his employees and customers. This is the same guy who had a child murdered on BB 

Was it ever established whether Gus ordered Tomas killed, or if his "trusted employees" went rogue?  When Walt met with Fring in the desert after killing the trusted employees to save Jesse, he tells Fring that Jesse might have thought Fring ordered Tomas killed.  A furious Fring replied, "Are you asking me if I ordered the murder of a child?" and Walt coyly responded "I would never ask you that."  I think that intentionally left it vague.  

Personally, I don't think Fring ordered, because I don't see what he had to gain.  However hee is apparently capable of killing children or at least threatening to do so as he told Walt that if he tried to stop Fring's crew from killing Hank, "I will kill your wife, I will kill your son, I will kill your infant daughter."

[Bryce Lynch]

On 5/6/2017 at 8:57 AM, MissBluxom said:

I would be very happy to see Chuck get a just comeuppance. If anyone deserves to get a swift and painful uppercut, it would be Chuck the Cluck!.  He has been getting away with all kinds of crazy and nasty shenanians for far too long - way too long.  IMHO, he is deserving of a great big smackdown and a nasty uppercut delivered by someone who would really enjoy it.

For what it's worth, your description of what Chuck has wanted most,  makes me drool with anticipation of seeing Chuck getting what he deserves.

I can't wait. I just can't wait!

Do you have a list of Chuck's "crazy and nasty shenanigans"?  Sure he is crazy, but the only really nasty things I recall him doing have been in response to Jimmy's nasty and felonious actions against him, his firm and his client.  

[MisterBluxom]

11 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

You can call 911 without giving your name or any personal information.

Many people think you must give your name or personal info. But you can always just decline and it's not usually a problem.

I wouldn't lie to them. But I'd just say something like, "I'd prefer to remain anonymous." I've done that in the past.

[Jextella]

13 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

I wonder if this show will lose viewers if people stop rooting for Jimmy, or if he does something--or just attempts or recommends doing something--particularly heinous.  

It occurred to me that Jimmy is easy to root for in the same way Walter was - for awhile, anyway.

4 hours ago, Captanne said:

it also depends on people's contracts and availability.  IIRC, wasn't Fring tricky to get back because of earlier conflicts?  The BB guys have moved on.

Which actors have moved on?  Bryan Cranston certainly might be hard to get, Aaron Paul too perhaps but easier.  The others don't have permanent gigs or big movie careers, right?  Seems any/all could come back at some point.   I believe Jesse hooked Walter up with Saul so could be Jesse connections come into play down the road.

[Captanne]

I don't know.  I'm not a part of their lives.  Not all actors need to be in the limelight to have other commitments that prevent them from taking television seasonal contracts.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Captanne

[benteen]

Quote

I think the magnet thing is unquestionable.  When they did the test at the scrapyard, the laptop was fried well before it was ripped out of Jesse's hands

As much as I loved Breaking Bad, I always found the magnet thing the most ridiculous and cartoonish thing they did on the show.

[Bryce Lynch]

16 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

As to customers calling the cops, what are they going to report, three menacing looking guys loitering?  The DEA is already on to Hector, they can follow him and coordinate with Albuquerque police if they want to. There's also a fear factor/chilling effect of people not wanting to get involved.  More than once I've had police run my info when I've called in a report.  I have a common name and someone with my name apparently has outstanding warrants and it's just unpleasant to deal with.

If Hector and his goons had been a bit more subtle, I might agree.  But they were rather openly intimidating the customers (briefly blocking the mother and child from leaving) and in the time it took for Gus to make it from the fire house (which BTW, was the same one where Walt left baby Holly) everyone had left except the employees.  I would think someone would have called the police.

I don't think Hector would want to bring attention to the business he was planning to use as his new mule.  It would have made a lot more sense to either set up a meeting with Gus, or surprise him after hours at LPH or at his home.  

It is not really inconsistent with Hector's character.  Anybody crazy/dumb enough to pee in Don Eladio's pool is liable to do a lot of reckless things.  It seems to run in the family.  Tuco is also nuts, and  Marco and Leonel weren't the sharpest knives in the drawer either.  The Salamancas seemed to be more of the muscle end of the cartel, while Eladio, Bolsa and Fring were the brains.

[MaryPatShelby]

On 5/2/2017 at 8:24 AM, nodorothyparker said:

It turned out to be a good episode, but if you're not hardcore into the BB universe 25 minutes of subtitles between people you mostly haven't been watching for 2 1/2 seasons is a rough start for 10 p.m. on a school night.  I almost gave up and went to bed.

I haven't read all the comments, but have skimmed most, and think I must have the most Unpopular Opinion In History: I do not care about the drug trade machinations in ABQ, and I was peeved that it was 32 minutes before we saw Jimmy.  I watched BB, and think it is one of the best shows in history and it's in my top 3 favorites shows of all time. But I don't find it all that interesting (in the context of a show about Jimmy/Saul) for BCS to be BB: The Early Years. I didn't like the subtitles, thought the pool scene went on way too long, and I really really hope that BCS hasn't jumped the shark for me.  

[ByTor]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

If Hector and his goons had been a bit more subtle, I might agree.  But they were rather openly intimidating the customers (briefly blocking the mother and child from leaving) and in the time it took for Gus to make it from the fire house (which BTW, was the same one where Walt left baby Holly) everyone had left except the employees.  I would think someone would have called the police.

I would think so too.  I know I'd have run out of there ASAP & called police after seeing Hector light up the cigar & refuse to put it out...I'd think someone would think something was up by that point.

[ghoulina]

15 hours ago, TVFan17 said:

However... I just listened to a portion of an interview with Michael McKean (it was on a random channel on Sirius-XM -- not sure which one it was), and he said that he thinks that Vince Gilligan and Peter Gould are probably going to do the same thing with Better Call Saul that they did with Breaking Bad as far as planning for a fixed number of seasons and then wrapping it up.  He said he thinks that's already the plan.  Now, to be clear, (from the part that I heard) MM did not specify exactly how many seasons he thinks Vince and Peter have planned for BCS -- just that they have a similar plan for BCS as what they did with BB.  And it was mentioned -- either by MM or by the interviewer -- that BB lasted a little bit longer than the originally planned timeframe, but that it was always intended to just be a story that unfolded in a fixed amount of time and then would come to an end.  (I am paraphrasing, but that was the essence of it.)

So I, personally, don't think BCS will run for too many more seasons.  Maybe Gilligan and Gould have a specific number of seasons in mind, if AMC doesn't cancel the show before they get to that number.  I am guessing that 5 or 6 seasons will be it.  We might see a lot of jumping back and forth in the timeline in the last couple of seasons (by then I am hoping that this endless drama with Chuck will have taken a different turn), but I don't think BCS is going to go on and on and overstay its welcome (as I think a show such as The Walking Dead is beginning to do).

I hope you're right. Because BB is one of the few shows I have watched in its entirety and thought it was just brilliant from beginning to end. While so many other shows start get silly or drag as the seasons go on, that show never did. I hope they do the same with BCS. Have a general outline, a beginning, middle, and end. Things can change here and there, but I think having an end goal in mind is a good thing. 

 

7 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Was it ever established whether Gus ordered Tomas killed, or if his "trusted employees" went rogue?  When Walt met with Fring in the desert after killing the trusted employees to save Jesse, he tells Fring that Jesse might have thought Fring ordered Tomas killed.  A furious Fring replied, "Are you asking me if I ordered the murder of a child?" and Walt coyly responded "I would never ask you that."  I think that intentionally left it vague.  

Personally, I don't think Fring ordered, because I don't see what he had to gain.  However hee is apparently capable of killing children or at least threatening to do so as he told Walt that if he tried to stop Fring's crew from killing Hank, "I will kill your wife, I will kill your son, I will kill your infant daughter."

I don't think Fring ordered it, but I think he was prepared to back his guys anyhow. 

[JudyObscure]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

If Hector and his goons had been a bit more subtle, I might agree.  But they were rather openly intimidating the customers (briefly blocking the mother and child from leaving) and in the time it took for Gus to make it from the fire house (which BTW, was the same one where Walt left baby Holly) everyone had left except the employees.  I would think someone would have called the police.

I don't think Hector would want to bring attention to the business he was planning to use as his new mule.  It would have made a lot more sense to either set up a meeting with Gus, or surprise him after hours at LPH or at his home.  

It is not really inconsistent with Hector's character.  Anybody crazy/dumb enough to pee in Don Eladio's pool is liable to do a lot of reckless things.  It seems to run in the family.  Tuco is also nuts, and  Marco and Leonel weren't the sharpest knives in the drawer either.  The Salamancas seemed to be more of the muscle end of the cartel, while Eladio, Bolsa and Fring were the brains.

Hector and his goons also seem to have made all the employees  sit in a circle.  I don't think the cooks would have come out from their comparatively safe stations if they hadn't been forced to.

I agree that Hector is  crazy/dumb and I would add very childish. Cleaning his shoes over Gus Fring's desk?  Such a very low level power play.  At the pool he seemed so sincerely hurt and angry over the teasing he was getting about his rubber band money and his bobble head gift, I almost felt sorry for him.  Hector's just a mean, school yard bully who happened to make it big in the business.

[Bryce Lynch]

Just now, ghoulina said:

I hope you're right. Because BB is one of the few shows I have watched in its entirety and thought it was just brilliant from beginning to end. While so many other shows start get silly or drag as the seasons go on, that show never did. I hope they do the same with BCS. Have a general outline, a beginning, middle, and end. Things can change here and there, but I think having an end goal in mind is a good thing. 

 

I don't think Fring ordered it, but I think he was prepared to back his guys anyhow. 

I'm not so sure about that.  If he was sincere when he ordered "No more children!" and they defied him, I have little doubt he would have killed the trusted employees, if Jesse and Walt hadn't gotten to them first.