S05.E07: The Committee on Human Rights

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

As Paige becomes even more enmeshed in her parents' world, tensions with Matthew Beeman come to a head, Philip and Elizabeth's honeytraps take surprising turns, and Stan faces the consequences of overplaying his hand at the FBI.

Promo:

[John S]

I do NOT want to see Paige working as a spy for the Russians. I did NOT want to see her go to Gabriel's home.

[Ellaria]

Ben the Wheat Guy is shown getting out of a taxi (with Tennessee license plates) with a woman with long blonde hair. Who would this be? A fellow tai chi enthusiast?

Our dear Paige: "are you a spy?" Yikes!

Edited April 13, 2017 by Ellaria Sand

[Razzberry]

Yikes is right.  I used to think Phillip had some redeeming qualities, but walking his own daughter into Gabriel's lair was chilling.  Some see him as "family", but I can't think of a single conversation that didn't relate to what they're there to do, bottom line.  They may even be offering her up as a way to boost their own standing, whether they realize it or not. 

[SlovakPrincess]

Elizabeth, Ben is cheating on you!  Lol

Yeah, not really sure why P and E are convinced Gabriel and Paige will connect on any emotional level.   Next to Claudia, I guess Gabriel seems downright avuncular.  But still.

Also, how well does Gabriel really know them?   They talk about assignments and Gabriel has read their files.  He knows how taxing the spy life can be for them, that their childhoods were pretty crappy, and that the Centre holds grudges and can turn on you.  All of this information is distressing, and unlikely to Be anything young Paige can handle.

[Sarah 103]

One reason to bring Paige to Gabriel is that they think he can do a better job of explaining what they do and why they do it. Another explanation is that Philip knows after Gabriel meets with Paige and talks to her he will realize that using her will be a bad idea, and having that information come to the Centre from Gabriel instead of them will be better for everyone involved. 

[sistermagpie]

1 hour ago, Razzberry said:

Yikes is right.  I used to think Phillip had some redeeming qualities, but walking his own daughter into Gabriel's lair was chilling.  Some see him as "family", but I can't think of a single conversation that didn't relate to what they're there to do, bottom line.  They may even be offering her up as a way to boost their own standing, whether they realize it or not. 

 

27 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

Yeah, not really sure why P and E are convinced Gabriel and Paige will connect on any emotional level.   Next to Claudia, I guess Gabriel seems downright avuncular.  But still.

Also, how well does Gabriel really know them?   They talk about assignments and Gabriel has read their files.  He knows how taxing the spy life can be for them, that their childhoods were pretty crappy, and that the Centre holds grudges and can turn on you.  All of this information is distressing, and unlikely to Be anything young Paige can handle.

I think Gabriel knows a lot about them. He's been a father figure to them for years. And it's not totally related to the work because the work is their life. He knows what make them tick, understands the struggles they've had with the work especially recently, knows how much they love their kids, has seen their relationship evolve. I'd say he's definitely family the same way that Philip and Elizabeth became family despite being put together for work.  Compared to Elizabeth's mother he's at least as able to talk about them personally.

6 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

One reason to bring Paige to Gabriel is that they think he can do a better job of explaining what they do and why they do it. Another explanation is that Philip knows after Gabriel meets with Paige and talks to her he will realize that using her will be a bad idea, and having that information come to the Centre from Gabriel instead of them will be better for everyone involved. 

I'm not sure what Gabriel could see in a single meeting that would convince the Centre she's not right for the work. 

[Erin9]

I hope Ben and the mystery woman indicates this story element is finally going somewhere interesting. Ben's scenes have been excruciatingly boring so far. I usually don't think of anything on this show as boring, but he sure has been. 

So Philip is still stuck with Deidre. I wonder what will come out of that. At least with them, I'm already curious about what'll come out of her mouth and how Philip will respond. 

Stan's gotten away with more or less doing what he wants for a long time, culminating in blackmail of the government. Honestly, if Philip is on thin ice, the ice under Stan should be cracking. Stan's invited more ire from his bosses than Philip imo. 

I don't mind Paige meeting Gabriel. This is more personal for them. This is Paige's one chance to meet and talk to someone who actually knows her parents.  And Gabriel is the closest thing to family they have. Given Philip realizing how he truly knew nothing of his own parents, this isn't a shock. And Gabriel is leaving. She won't be meeting him regularly. This doesn't represent a radical change in Paige's life. 

I hope Paige's time with Matthew is short. It's really not that interesting in its own right- just how it relates to the secret. 

Edited April 13, 2017 by Erin9

[Ellaria]

27 minutes ago, Erin9 said:

I hope Ben and the mystery woman indicates this story element is finally going somewhere interesting. Ben's scenes have been excruciatingly boring so far. I usually don't think of anything on this show as boring, but he sure has been. 

So Philip is still stuck with Deidre. I wonder what will come out of that. At least with them, I'm already curious about what'll come out of her mouth and how Philip will respond.

From the episode description above: "Philip and Elizabeth's honeytraps take surprising turns."

Agree that Ben's scenes have been boring. Without overthinking the preview, is someone - Elizabeth perhaps? - watching him and his lady friend? If so, why is she observing him when he is out on the town? It looks like Boring Ben is not what he seems to be.

I guess Phillip is still working Deidre? Nothing much seems to have resulted from this assignment so far other than bland sex and an intro to spreadsheet software.

[Umbelina]

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/rossrights/docs/cases/Broeks.html

http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Publications/FactSheet30en.pdf

The first seems to be about non discrimination based on sex.  The second is about torture.  the committee on human rights stuff from 1984, all I found so far.

I agree that Gabe probably knows both Philip and Elizabeth better than anyone else.  Gabe's done, he's leaving, or at least that's what he's intending, so letting blabbermouth Paige meet him doesn't really endanger anything but the safe house.  Still, it seems sentimental to me, more than to convince Paige of anything.  We shall see.

[Bretton]

It'd be great if Ben was more than he claims to be. Because, thus far, he's felt like a bit of a caricature. Which would actually be a perfect set-up if there's more than meets the eye going on there.

Either way, while we can't discern too much from previews, this one seems to portend some real movement in the storylines!

Edited April 18, 2017 by Bretton

[pavlovsbell]

On 4/13/2017 at 4:08 PM, Umbelina said:

https://www.law.georgetown.edu/rossrights/docs/cases/Broeks.html

http://www.ohchr.org/Documents/Publications/FactSheet30en.pdf

The first seems to be about non discrimination based on sex.  The second is about torture.  the committee on human rights stuff from 1984, all I found so far.

I agree that Gabe probably knows both Philip and Elizabeth better than anyone else.  Gabe's done, he's leaving, or at least that's what he's intending, so letting blabbermouth Paige meet him doesn't really endanger anything but the safe house.  Still, it seems sentimental to me, more than to convince Paige of anything.  We shall see.

I did a search incorporating psychiatry because that is Elizabeth's new mission, and it returned results related to soviet psychiatric incarceration of political prisoners (like Mischa). Coincidence or Gabriel leaving breadcrumbs? Or it could easily turn out to be something else entirely.

https://www.csce.gov/sites/helsinkicommission.house.gov/files/Abuse of Psychiatry in the Soviet Union.pdf

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_Commission_to_Investigate_the_Use_of_Psychiatry_for_Political_Purposes

http://psychnews.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/pn.45.22.psychnews_45_22_023

Edited April 18, 2017 by pavlovsbell

[kokapetl]

On 13/04/2017 at 3:59 AM, Ellaria Sand said:

Ben the Wheat Guy is shown getting out of a taxi (with Tennessee license plates) with a woman with long blonde hair. Who would this be? A fellow tai chi enthusiast?

Our dear Paige: "are you a spy?" Yikes!

It'll probably be his sister or something. 

[MisterBluxom]

IMHO, there are only two things that could be interesting or exciting between Paige & Matthew:

1) she is pregnant

2) her family secret somehow becomes known to Matthew

As far as the mystery blonde goes, if it turns out to be Elizabeth trying out a new wig for him, I will seriously consider revising my opinion of this show. Please, let this season finally go somewhere. At this stage, I'd prefer almost anywhere to where we are now. (creeping and crawling along).

Edited April 18, 2017 by MissBluxom

[Bannon]

I really fear the writers have botched the ending to this show. The Centre suspects Phillip as being unreliable, but wants to continue to recruit Paige, who they know has already blown her parents' cover, to her Pastor and his wife?  Ick.

Well, I will hope for the best, which also includes not having Elizabeth kill anybody for the rest of the season. I also really hope that they don't double back and have Tai Chi Ben actually be involved in clandestine anti-Soviet activities, because that would really be stupid.  It'll be much better if he exposes Liz to something  (even though it really makes more sense for Liz to end the operation with him) that causes her to question her Faith (and makes no mistake, Liz has Faith), as long as it is well-written.

[Bannon]

On 4/13/2017 at 0:12 PM, Erin9 said:

 

Stan's gotten away with more or less doing what he wants for a long time, culminating in blackmail of the government. Honestly, if Philip is on thin ice, the ice under Stan should be cracking. Stan's invited more ire from his bosses than Philip imo. 

 

Stan should be investigating cattle rustling on Indian reservations in South Dakota by now, and the show would have been better for it.

[Bannon]

7 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

IMHO, there are only two things that could be interesting or exciting between Paige & Matthew:

1) she is pregnant

2) her family secret somehow becomes known to Matthew

As far as the mystery blonde goes, if it turns out to be Elizabeth trying out a new wig for him, I will seriously consider revising my opinion of this show. Please, let this season finally go somewhere. At this stage, I'd prefer almost anywhere to where we are now. (creeping and crawling along).

The only way they could get more elaborate jumping of cartilaginous ferocious fish is if they have Pastor Tim convert himself and his flock to Catholicism, then have Matthew enter the confessional booth, to tell Father Tim that he is betraying his father, by not informing on his Commie gf and her family! It would be glorious!

[MisterBluxom]

2 hours ago, Bannon said:

The only way they could get more elaborate jumping of cartilaginous ferocious fish is if they have Pastor Tim convert himself and his flock to Catholicism, then have Matthew enter the confessional booth, to tell Father Tim that he is betraying his father, by not informing on his Commie gf and her family! It would be glorious!

If we could vote for "Best Post of the Month", you would get my vote for that. I wonder how many people will look up the word "cartilaginous"?

[Moose135]

4 hours ago, Bannon said:

Stan should be investigating cattle rustling on Indian reservations in South Dakota by now, and the show would have been better for it.

He should be in a cell someplace, cut off from contact with the outside world, for multiple breaches of national security.

[Umbelina]

moving my response to the Stan thread

Edited April 18, 2017 by Umbelina
s

[SunnyBeBe]

22 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

It'll probably be his sister or something. 

What state is that plate from?

[Moose135]

Tennessee

[AimingforYoko]

"I...I didn't know he was like that." Oh Liz, you are sooooo full of shit. I'm not saying she was jealous, but I do believe the pride was stung a bit. And Phillip ain't exactly tearing it up with his mark, either. Could the golden couple be experiencing a slump?

I'm going to miss Frank Langella, he really brought a touch of class to the proceedings.

[Primetimer]

But does Commie Grandpa effectively impart his wisdom before he goes?

View the full article

[RedHawk]

Ugh, dullest episode ever? Elizabeth being cheated on was fun. I thought Paige would actually end up having sex with Matthew, at least that would have been interesting.

I thought Deidre was going to say she knew Philip was some sort of industrial spy or something like that. It seems like their dull relationship was written to be humorous but I don't find any of it funny. There was a lot of hilarious stuff in Clark and Martha's interactions.

Gabriel's final words were surprising, and at first I thought he was going to say The Centre had changed their minds about her. Where would that have gone? "Ok, Paige, it's been decided you're not spy material. Forget everything you know about us and return to normal teenage life. Oh, and could you please ask Henry to come in here?" 

Speaking of Henry... I sure miss that kid even if his family doesn't. 

[benteen]

I thought the episode was very good even though this was more of a low-key episode.  Thought there was some pretty good humor too, like Philip and Elizabeth's reaction to Ben's cheating on her and Gabriel's "Are you serious?" to Philip.

Thought the scene with Paige and Gabriel was short but sweet.

Stan being removed from counter-intelligence is completely illogical.

I don't see how the Centre could think that Paige would make good spy material.

I hope we see Frank Langella again on this show.

[sistermagpie]

15 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

Speaking of Henry... I sure miss that kid even if his family doesn't. 

Another sign that Henry is great spy material. He really does make you long for him when he's not there because he lights up this glum family!

Little things I noticed--"Gus" (that's Philip's name with Deirdre, right?) has a big stain on his shirt. Obviously he knows not to try to hard, but he's still too needy for asking about a second bowl. Deirdre is the anti-Martha. He should be relieved.

So Elizabeth really did have a big ole naive spot when it came to "That Guy." Come on, of course he's seeing other women. As soon as he saw that fireplace he made sure his kitchen was stocked with the ingredients for s'mores so he could lecture women over them. He never said you were exclusive, Elizabeth! (As Dabney Coleman in Tootsie would say.)

Though it was a nice theme running with people who really want to connect vs. those who don't. Ben and Deirdre really aren't looking for a connection, so they can't  be a sounding board for their emotions even in censored form. (But note that he tried to draw Elizabeth out--he'd probably do really well on The Bachelor.) Paige can say she and Matthew just make out. Stan was hilariously happy about telling his redacted story to Renee. Paige could tell Gabriel really cared about her parents and he gave her a tiger. (Henry really needs to know his parents.) I still want to know about Philip's brother.

Oh, and Oleg looked up his mother's record in the camp and wanted to talk to his brother. Nice to have that access.

Elizabeth basically only really broke up with 2 people--Gregory and Philip when she threw him out. I kind of thought Philip might talk about having been dumped at around Paige's/Matthew's age. Leaving out how it got complicated later. Of course Paige thought she was different from everybody else before all of this. It was practically tattooed on her forehead. Also Pastor Tim maybe got the "you're not the most important person in the world" thing when he got lost in Ethiopia but not before. And maybe not still. But Paige's "sometimes" about praying is noted. It would be nice if meeting Paige made Gabriel really see she was not spy material, but he was probably just being morose.

Which reminds me, when Philip was saying good-bye to Gabriel I thought he was going to ask him to look in on his son instead of asking about Stan. His ghost was hovering a bit what with Elizabeth pulling Soviet dissident psychiatric files.

So Henry's going to come roaring into view next episode, right? We're running out of time. We've basically just got a slow drumbeat of discontent about him and now he didn't appear yet again. I was hoping he was going to come in with Philip when he did that weird "hallo!" before walking in the front door. It's like he and Elizabeth have become two birds that chirp to each other before they're even in sight they're so desperate to be together.

"I feel like one of those guys in the posters" is one of the cutest things anyone's ever said on the show.

Stan once again is the luckiest guy at the FBI. He gets caught doing something huge and somebody steps in to protect his job.

Edited April 19, 2017 by sistermagpie

[Erin9]

I can't decide which line was better: Philip saying "thank god" upon finding out Paige finally broke  up with Matthew. (That was certainly how I felt.) or Gabriel's final line that Philip was right that Paige shouldn't be part of this. (True, but it is too late. Breaking up with Matthew is good though. Less stress.) Interesting that Gabriel was more reassuring with Elizabeth regarding Paige though. 

I bet P and E wish they'd never told Paige the wheat story now. I'm not surprised they lied to her though. That could backfire, though I don't see how she'd ever find out otherwise. 

I love how Gabriel's final moments with P and E echoed his relationships with them. Elizabeth's was purely affectionate. Philip's was the questioning Q and A session it has always been. But- I liked that all 3 acknowledged they're like family. Elizabeth wonders what they'll do without him; he clearly wonders what he'll do without them. 

Philip's time with Deidre was predictably funny. She's sure not needy, that's for sure. Philip trying to figure out how to respond to her is priceless. I almost died laughing when she just asked if he wanted to have sex. 

 Love that Ben isn't a saint. Good- he was annoyingly perfect and perfectly boring. Elizabeth didn't really like him "cheating", even though she felt it shouldn't matter. But it does a bit just the same. 

I'm bit annoyed that Stan's consequences are none- at least for now. I was even more annoyed seeing how happy Stan was about getting away with everything again. Getting to determine government ops by blackmailing the government using something criminal he did bugs me. I don't want Oleg to get hurt, but I don't care for this.  If Renee is a nobody, can we skip Stan's scenes with her? Stan's crumbling marriage was interesting. This is just a happy, normal relationship. I'm not sure why we need to see it. 

That said, I appreciated that Stan didn't make false promises to the Russian mother. He made a lot of promises to Nina that he couldn't keep. 

The actress playing Oleg's mother did a great job showing her relief that Oleg's off the hook for now. And Oleg talking about how he'd love to talk to his brother about "anything" was heartbreaking and so true to life. Wonder what he'll get out of looking at his mother's file. 

Edited April 19, 2017 by Erin9

[Shriekingeel]

Paige's insufferable speech about how awful it is for America to mess with the food (a lie her parents have got her regurgitating) made me want to throw things at my tv. 

[MisterBluxom]

In hindsight, wouldn't it have been better for P & E to have told Paige something close to what they did but agreed to have "distorted" the main facts? For example, they could have told her they worked in espionage but for some other country - maybe some Eastern European country. In that way, if the unthinkable were ever to happen, Paige could never tell anyone anything that would check out. She could blab everything she knew and none of it would ever check out.

Instead of "wheat", they could have told her they were investigating a plot to damage computerized automobile ignition systems. Then, if she ever decides that she just has to come clean with her pastor, they both would just be left holding a big bag of air.

I know this probably sounds like a "childish" kind of approach to prevention. But, given they were determined to tell Paige something that was essentially the truth, couldn't they have made a few "adjustments" to the truth that would have given them a chance to get out of the country before they got life in prison?

Edited April 19, 2017 by MissBluxom

[Umbelina]

Quote

And that’s the queasy theme which, with this episode, seems to be approaching a crescendo: The truth with set you free, but not protected. All these multilayered lies, misinformation, propaganda, secrecy, and fear — fear, above all — allow a people to be manipulated en masse. Not much is said about the group from which this episode takes its title, The Committee On Human Rights. But it refers to a group which investigated and exposed the psychiatric abuse and terror committed by the Soviet government on its people. Before the group’s members were eventually arrested, they revealed a number of ways in which the USSR used (misused, rather) psychiatric methods to suppress dissent, using such tactics as pharmaceutical abuse and false diagnoses like “sluggish schizophrenia.” The latter was an entirely fabricated mental illness “diagnosed” in political dissenters. It was most likely conceived of by the KGB.

http://www.refinery29.com/2017/04/145496/the-americans-recap-season-5-episode-7

Very thoughtful recap, which normally I'd post in the media thread, but this paragraph, describing what it is exactly that Elizabeth stole, seemed to belong here.

[SailorGirl]

On 4/17/2017 at 9:09 PM, Kokapetl said:

It'll probably be his sister or something. 

yeah . . . I don't know anyone who kisses their sister that way. And I don't want to. . . :-D 

Thanks for the agreement that Paige shouldn't have been involved in the work, Gabriel. Too little, too late. . . can't take her out of it now. "That's okay, honey, just go back to your life before you knew mommy and daddy were Russian spies. That won't be a problem, right?" 

[Umbelina]

So, one thing is clear, most of our spies are having serious doubts now.  Stan, Oleg, Gabriel, Philip, and of course our probably still-born-spy Paige.

Ennui has hit most of them, and maybe in some small corner of her heart, Elizabeth as well?  Nah, she'll end up being the last true believer at this point.  Some continue to go through the motions, but barely, Stan warning the Russian the US would let her and her son die without a second thought if operations called for it, Philip's lame honey trap, Oleg not wanting to threaten someone's kid in Afghanistan.  Philip's been ready to get out from the beginning, and Gabriel just bailed, with some cryptic words at the end.

It's all lies, and lies are heavy.  They promised Paige no more lies, just not the complete details, and now both parents are lying their asses off to her rather than admit the USSR got it wrong and what that led to.  Gabe admitted that Center may have lied about Stan's girlfriend, and then lies to Elizabeth about how well Paige is doing, turning around when she's gone and telling Philip the exact opposite, that she should never have gotten into this.  Hunky smores guy lies, and Elizabeth lies that it didn't bug her.  Paige lies to Mathew about why she's breaking up with him.  Elizabeth lies to get the key to the psychiatrist's office, and doesn't even care what she's stealing, or what effect that may have. 

I hope Philip and Elizabeth actually read that thing before turning it over, but will they?  Probably not.

Spy world is closing in on all of them.

Maybe hunky smores guy will be interviewed and that's how Paige could find out about the wheat?

[Erin9]

Wait...so Oleg's mother was in a lumbering camp? So- is that the same as logging?

I think Elizabeth is getting tired of spying. The last several episodes have shown that. She's just not as over it as everyone else is. As usual, she moves slower. Ben was obviously not Philip- it's not like she loves him- but it still mattered to her that he cheated. She did like him a bit. Even though she said otherwise. 

Philip and Gabriel's final conversation really was stunning. From beginning to end. They are so much alike really. And Gabriel is so over spying. 

I think I've decided that I'd like endgame being the Jennings- all of them- fight for their family. This is a show about family and marriage after all. 

[ptuscadero]

1 hour ago, benteen said:

Thought there was some pretty good humor too, like Philip and Elizabeth's reaction to Ben's cheating on her and Gabriel's "Are you serious?" to Philip.

 

Up until that moment, I didn't believe the Renee chick was in any shape or form 'one of them.' However, the way Gabriel responded to Philip, almost like a parody of a bad liar, instantly made me think just the opposite.

[PinkRibbons]

Little to no egregious false translations, hurrah!

This episode felt like everyone taking a sigh of relief about something or other. Philip not needing to go all in with Deirdre. Page not having to deal with Matthew anymore. Gabriel just being Done, and not (as I feared), dragging Misha Jr. into things at the last second. Stan having a stay of execution for the moment. Even Elizabeth seeing that her mark was cheating on her, so using him isn't as bad (which I have to say made me laugh like a loon. Leading up to it I was watching Keri Russel's face and she gave the perfect "that fucker is cheating on me! Her! The me I am with him! Whatever!" reaction. So much hurt pride and I think even Philip found that a tad amusing.)

I absolutely still believe Renee is a spy (although talk to me again after the episode's podcast where they may or may not confirm) and that they didn't tell Gabriel; we're long past due for seeing the chaos the Russian government descended into towards the end, with communication breaking down and the left and rights hands completely oblivious of each other. I know the show runners kind if hate the East German Bomber episode (or they think that it was at least too silly in hindsight), but I loved it because it did show a perfect example of the Soviets imploding, sending orders and taking them back, different people giving disparate commands to the same agents.

I don't know if the director chooses a script or they choose the director for the script, but I really felt Matthew Rhys was brought in because he seems to be so good with Holly Taylor and this was a Paige-heavy episode. Like her character or not (I still like her), she's a good actress and she did some really good work this episode. The little "sorry" when she ran away from Matthew was so perfect.

Edited April 19, 2017 by PinkRibbons

[Bannon]

The Paige arc doesn't make any sense to me, Stan has never made any sense to me, and now the KGB is bothering to steal plants that an American company intends to sell anyhow. What, murder is no big deal, but patent infringement via purchase offends communist sensibilities, so the plant is stolen instead? This is not good writing, and clunky dialogue (except for a few scenes) doesn't help.

It's close enough to the end that sticking it out is likely for me, but if this episode typifies what is to come, it's gonna be a hard slog.

1 hour ago, PinkRibbons said:

Little to no egregious false translations, hurrah!

This episode felt like everyone taking a sigh of relief about something or other. Philip not needing to go all in with Deirdre. Page not having to deal with Matthew anymore. Gabriel just being Done, and not (as I feared), dragging Misha Jr. into things at the last second. Stan having a stay of execution for the moment. Even Elizabeth seeing that her mark was cheating on her, so using him isn't as bad (which I have to say made me laugh like a loon. Leading up to it I was watching Keri Russel's face and she gave the perfect "that fucker is cheating on me! Her! The me I am with him! Whatever!" reaction. So much hurt pride and I think even Philip found that a tad amusing.)

I absolutely still believe Renee is a spy (although talk to me again after the episode's podcast where they may or may not confirm) and that they didn't tell Gabriel; we're long past due for seeing the chaos the Russian government descended into towards the end, with communication breaking down and the left and rights hands completely oblivious of each other. I know the show runners kind if hate the East German Bomber episode (or they think that it was at least too silly in hindsight), but I loved it because it did show a perfect example of the Soviets imploding, sending orders and taking them back, different people giving disparate commands to the same agents.

I don't know if the director chooses a script or they choose the director for the script, but I really felt Matthew Rhys was brought in because he seems to be so good with Holly Taylor and this was a Paige-heavy episode. Like her character or not (I still like her), she's a good actress and she did some really good work this episode. The little "sorry" when she ran away from Matthew was so perfect.

Paige's breakup with Matthew, Phillip's scene in Topeka, and Gabriel's last scene, were the only three where the dialogue wasn't at least a little painful to my ears.

[VagueDisclaimer]

I definitely think Renee is some kind of spy, but I wonder for who and why. Maybe she's not there for just Stan and that's why they kept Gabriel out of the loop, maybe she's on the US side of things because Stan has had too many things and people go wrong around him, I'm not sure of anything but she is definitely a spy. 

[chocolatine]

"I didn't ask any questions" is the same thing the poor lab guy said before Philip and Elizabeth killed him. Maybe you should have asked, Philip.

I'll miss Ol' Dracula, he's really grown on me. Really sad that he essentially has nothing and nobody to come home to; his cousin and nephew have probably forgotten all about him. Oh well, perhaps he can look up Martha and they can go scouring empty store shelves together.

P&E should have had Paige meet Gabriel years ago as a "family friend". He would have assessed her lack of spy suitability and the show could have spared us that whole lame storyline.

[jjj]

I am so tired of the wheat.  

[NitneLiun]

3 hours ago, Shriekingeel said:

Paige's insufferable speech about how awful it is for America to mess with the food (a lie her parents have got her regurgitating) made me want to throw things at my tv. 

Paige has quickly become the useful idiot. Frankly, she was heading in that direction even before she knew the big secret.

I so want to see Pastor Groovyhair spend the rest of his life in a federal maximum security pound-me-in-the-butt prison. 

Edited April 19, 2017 by NitneLiun

[RedHawk]

36 minutes ago, jjj said:

I am so tired of the wheat.  

I know! A plague of locusts on this annoying wheat story. End it!

[vb68]

It was a rather dull episode indeed.  My biggest reaction is being happy and relieved for Matthew. Seriously he should be thankful  that drama's over. He's also lucky she didn't physically hurt him, which she would've if he pushed any further.

Elizabeth's beaming face cracked me up at the beginning when Gabriel was laying it on thick for Paige about them being heroes and her courage. She was loving every second of that.  Too bad she can't fake it like that for Henry and his math genius.

But I thought Elizabeth and Philip were total fucking hypocrites for not telling her any revised story about the wheat. So much for their high idealism.

And that makes me realize that a missing piece in Paige's internal struggle is that she is in fact American.  She did just accept the wheat stuff too easily. Having been a teenager in this era myself, I remember how strong US pride and anti-Russian feelings were then. We also weren't shy about trash talking commies and what have you.  Just saying I don't think they have really captured that dynamic with the kids. I would think they would touch on it with Tuan and Pavel, who would have likely been called a commie to his face if not worse, at school. In short, kids really were jingoistic assholes for the most part.  But anyway, yeah I would have liked Paige to express more doubt on the wheat stuff. If that is part of what's going on, I wish it was clearer.

Philip should just call it with the Topeka lady. It's obvious that he's wasting his time and might really mess up. Elizabeth is going to bite Ben's head off for something relatively minor. Speaking of him, I totally thought he made her for a second.  It looked like he did a double take in her direction. 

Gabriel's parting really was such sweet sorrow.  And him having to handle the wheat sample like a baby was cute. 

Edited April 19, 2017 by vb68

[MisterBluxom]

Maybe if Matthew would have just gotten a haircut?

OMG! That mop he has been carrying around went out of style at least ten years ago. Just think what it would be like to have a bf like Matthew. He's a complete slug. Isn't he? He is just no fun at all.

I think Paige did him a huge favor. Maybe now he'll think about his personal style a little (including his clothes). I bet if we had Smell-o-vision, he wouldn't even be wearing any kind of interesting scent - above and beyond B.O.

P.S. (the above post was primarily my weak-ass attempt at some humor).

[NitneLiun]

This season is grinding to a halt for me.  I've been thinking of scenarios that could have made it more interesting. One of my favorites is as follows:

Elizabeth tries to seduce Tai Chi what dude, but quickly realizes he's gay.  Phillip attempts to seduce Lotus Lady but quickly realizes she's gay.  P and E report their findings to Gabriel. Gabriel contacts the Center to ask if they have gay and lesbian agents who can carry out the assignment. The Center responds that P and E will have to switch roles. Phillip will have to seduce Tai Chi wheat dude and E will have to seduce Lotus Lady.

I think E would go through with it without much protest. We would get to see just how dedicated Phillip is to the revolution and Mother Russia.

[kokapetl]

Stan finally learnt to stop promising things he can't deliver.

The wheat project's greenhouse now has razor wire fences and at least three guys with semiautomatic rifles guarding the place. That actually is suspicious. 

I wish Deirdre had originally told Philip to fuck off. In the real world someone like her would find Philip's persistence irritating, then creepy and scary. 

Elizabeth doesn't necessarily have to care for Wheat Guy, I think she's just feeling some  insecurity about her fake girlfriend skills. 

Edited April 19, 2017 by Kokapetl

[Ellaria]

7 hours ago, Umbelina said:

They promised Paige no more lies, just not the complete details, and now both parents are lying their asses off to her rather than admit the USSR got it wrong and what that led to. 

3 hours ago, vb68 said:

Elizabeth's beaming face cracked me up at the beginning when Gabriel was laying it on thick for Paige about them being heroes and her courage. She was loving every second of that.  Too bad she can't fake it like that for Henry and his math genius.

But I thought Elizabeth and Philip were total fucking hypocrites for not telling her any revised story about the wheat. So much for their high idealism.

Yes and yes. Her "beaming face" is a great description and it really annoyed me. I know that Elizabeth is a true believer and, because of that, I should not have expected anything less but I really wanted to throw pillows at my TV. And then, a few minutes later, neither E or P decide to tell Paige the truth about the wheat. Hypocrites, indeed!

Love - love - love that Elizabeth is bothered that Ben has a girlfriend that isn't her. "I didn't think that he was like that." Like what? Duplicitous, like you? Of course, she "cares" in some way. Phillip knows it and she can't admit it. This wasn't a good Elizabeth episode for me.

Not sure if I am glad or sad that Paige and Matthew are splitsville. I was not invested in the relationship but at least it spared me endless scenes of Paige lying around in her room with that hideous wallpaper. Wonder what Stan's reaction will be.

Matthew Rhys embodies Phillip with incredibly honest emotions. He has become one of the most fascinating characters on TV. Loved his scenes with Paige and Gabriel. Maybe this is finally the year that he wins an Emmy.

The deliberate pace of this show has always been one of its strengths. IMO, it was crucial to understanding these characters and their choices. However, it is testing my patience this season.

Edited April 19, 2017 by Ellaria Sand

[Macbeth]

8 hours ago, AimingforYoko said:

I'm going to miss Frank Langella, he really brought a touch of class to the proceedings.

I am too.  Given that I like Mr. Langella - I have a sense of warmth from his character that is much needed on this cold show, and now it will be gone. 

[benteen]

2 hours ago, MissBluxom said:

Maybe if Matthew would have just gotten a haircut?

OMG! That mop he has been carrying around went out of style at least ten years ago. Just think what it would be like to have a bf like Matthew. He's a complete slug. Isn't he? He is just no fun at all.

I think Paige did him a huge favor. Maybe now he'll think about his personal style a little (including his clothes). I bet if we had Smell-o-vision, he wouldn't even be wearing any kind of interesting scent - above and beyond B.O.

P.S. (the above post was primarily my weak-ass attempt at some humor).

Yeah, it was hard to take Matthew seriously in that scene when his hair was making his face disappear.

Philip and Elizabeth could have told Paige the truth without having to reveal the dirty secrets (ie killing that employee).  But BOTH of them chose to deliberately manipulate their daughter, probably to poison her against her own country.  I think they could have told Paige enough of the truth on this one and still kept her sympathy with them and with "the cause".

I think the season has been good but not great.  There has been no standout episode thus far....last week's episode was close.  It feels a little like they're coasting on their laurels and Season 5 has proven to be the weakest so far.  Hopefully that changes in the back six.

Edited April 19, 2017 by benteen

[Bannon]

57 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

Stan finally learnt to stop promising things he can't deliver.

The wheat project's greenhouse now has razor wire fences and at least three guys with semiautomatic rifles guarding the place. That actually is suspicious. 

I wish Deirdre had originally told Philip to fuck off. In the real world someone like her would find Philip's persistence irritating, then creepy and scary. 

Elizabeth doesn't necessarily have to care for Wheat Guy, I think she's just feeling some  insecurity about her fake girlfriend skills. 

Sloppy writing abounds. A company which is developing wheat for the international market suddenly places razor wire and armed guards around a greenhouse, because somebody who works for yet another company, in another city, raising insects, has disappeared? Huh? 

The writers obviously wanted Tai Chi Ben followed by E & P, so they cooked up this nonsense. Work a little harder, people.