S01.E10: Chapter Ten: The Lost Weekend

[Neurochick]

On April 13, 2017 at 10:54 PM, RealFantasies said:

It's not inherently bad that so many of the people of color on canvas are either recurring and/or antagonists but the fact that they are not shaded out and given further nuance like Cheryl is, is a gross oversight.

This is one of the reasons I feel I have to stop watching this show.  I just can't stand how they treat POC, ESPECIALLY black people.  Fuck you, show.

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

I think Dark Betty would murder Chuck before screwing him. She almost killed him for his behavior 

Have we ever speculated that Dark Betty killed Jason Blossom out of a crazy Dark Betty vengeance stream of thought for violating Polly?

Point - For someone who seems pretty on the ball, Betty professes to have had NO awareness that her beloved sister was in a very serious relationship with Jason Blossom.

Where was Betty when Jason Blossom died?

[peachmangosteen]

12 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Have we ever speculated that Dark Betty killed Jason Blossom out of a crazy Dark Betty vengeance stream of thought for violating Polly?

This episode made me think they might actually go that route. I love the idea myself.

[jay741982]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

This episode made me think they might actually go that route. I love the idea myself.

It would definitely tell the viewers that this isn't Betty from the comics but her having this dark side already said this. That being said if Dark Betty ever kills anyone I can see it being Chuck. For Extra drama Jughead sees it happen but covers it up cause he knows about her darkness, loves her and doesn't want her to be in Jail.

[shapeshifter]

6 hours ago, jay741982 said:

I seen someone speculate that Betty might gonna dark and end up fucking Chuck. Which ew that's so gross. We already have way too tv relationships that sell POS Guys getting the girl is right when it's fucking gross. I think Dark Betty would murder Chuck before screwing him. She almost killed him for his behavior 

Betty + Chuck seems like the inevitable teen-triangle-angst story resolution to me.  Hmmm. Maybe that's why I hate triangles (other than having always wound up in the losing corner, myself).

[Bill1978]

On ‎15‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 11:04 AM, ottoDbusdriver said:

I found it strange that they played Sins and Secrets just because Cheryl said so -- she didn't hold a gun to anyone's head, all she did was lock one door. Plus it wasn't her house so Archie could have just told her to GTFO anytime.

That was probably the funniest part of the show for me. When Cheryl locked the door I instantly thought 'Umm Cheryl that won't keep people leaving as they can just unlock the door and walk out, all you've done is stop people entering the house' I was hoping when we came back to the scene we would see Archie lean over and unlock the door. But then Cheryl proved me wrong as everyone was trapped in the house, thank goodness FP knows how locks operate.

[jay741982]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Betty + Chuck seems like the inevitable teen-triangle-angst story resolution to me.  Hmmm. Maybe that's why I hate triangles (other than having always wound up in the losing corner, myself).

Id rather she black out and kill him. She'd have to hate herself to fuck him cause she knows what kinda guy he is. It's gross on so many levels 

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah count me as another who isn't up for a Chuck Betty hook up. I think I would legit hate this show if that happens. That's gross on so many levels. I'd rather she be a crazy killer than that. Although in all honestly I'm not fond of that scenario either.

As for the sinners and saints part of the party, I was wondering when Cheryl locked the door, isn't there a back door? Like couldn't everyone just walk out the back way? Also I found it odd that FP was just like chilling at a party with teens. That's so weird.

Edited April 16, 2017 by WhosThatGirl

[RealFantasies]

Show, you need to either redeem Chuck if shuffle him off campus to fix this mess.

I'm giving you til season 2 to clean that up.

And fix what you've done to Dilton, too. I don't care how you do it, say he was battling depression or anxiety like Betty is, or that his parents were splitting up, whatever. It's understood that this show will always revolve around the Big Four but you have to get your supporting crew in working order with a narrative that feels genuine and isn't making negative stereotypes or tokens of your PoC and LGBTQ characters. If you can't figure out how to write non-white, queer characters, then DON'T. I'd rather watch an entirely white, straight "Riverdale" than this graceless fumbling, at least then, respect would be shown in acknowledging your own ignorance.

Reggie is on the backburner because of 13RW, fair enough.

Betty is romantically or sexually fixated on Chuck? Oh, well, of course, she is. Women dig sexual harassment, slut-shaming, and rapists, it just makes them SO hot and bothered. And you know, if a woman has a bone to pick with you, don't ever reflect on what behavior may have prompted her fury, she just hasn't gotten 'any' in awhile. Sarcasm over.

"The Lost Weekend" (and kudos for naming this after one of my favorite older films, as I share my love of classic Hollywood is common with Jughead) was the best episode of "Riverdale" thus far. It can't be said enough how much I enjoy this show, there's tons of nostalgia and charm along with just the right amount of soapy, familial and whodunnit elements. It's also a classic teen drama that's been missing from Primetime for a minute, and the source material is extensive enough that I can see it going six, seven, and eight years from now. But there's room for improvement and I want season 2 to truly live up to this show's potential. It was a good freshmen kickoff, now I want to see more nuance, experience, and care put into effect with the stories and mysteries they're winding and weaving.

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

I'd rather watch an entirely white, straight "Riverdale" than this graceless fumbling, at least then, respect would be shown in acknowledging your own ignorance.

I am really really certain there would be flak to be caught if the show was all white and all straight. I absolutely think the lgbt and poc characters could be depicted *better* on this show, but there's utterly no way people wouldn't be complaining mightily if everyone in Riverdale was white and straight. And trust me, no one would be saying "well, I can at least respect that they're acknowledging their own ignorance".

Edited April 16, 2017 by ZoloftBlob

[Lady Calypso]

8 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

As for the sinners and saints part of the party, I was wondering when Cheryl locked the door, isn't there a back door? Like couldn't everyone just walk out the back way? Also I found it odd that FP was just like chilling at a party with teens. That's so weird.

It's kind of funny because FP was chilling there, allowing the party to happen, but in a way, he was supervising it too. As soon as it got too rowdy, he broke it up immediately and everyone listened. It's funny that he became unintentionally helpful in that situation. I'd probably invite FP to parties more often if he can break them up if they get too violent but he's still cool with everything else. 

As for the Cheryl issue, yeah, everyone could have left. They all chose to stay.

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, ZoloftBlob said:

I am really really certain there would be flak to be caught if the show was all white and all straight. I absolutely think the lgbt and poc characters could be depicted *better* on this show, but there's utterly no way people wouldn't be complaining mightily if everyone in Riverdale was white and straight. And trust me, no one would be saying "well, I can at least respect that they're acknowledging their own ignorance".

The thing is, the source material has mostly characters who are white and straight as far as I can recall. Although I've seen people posting about Jughead being asexual, but maybe that's happened in the last decade or two.

While there would probably be some backlash if the show had cast a white Chuck and Valerie (the only characters that I can think of that were minorities in the original comics) or turned Kevin straight (instead of making catty gay his only personality), I could see people preferring that to what Riverdale is currently portraying people of color and LGBTQ people as.

[FurryFury]

Freakin' loved the ep. I think it was the best one yet. I liked them giving flaws to both Betty and Jughead, esp. Jughead. I still felt for him, he does seem to have abandonment issues/social anxiety or something like that. It's understandable for him to lash out like that, and thankfully, they were able to overcome this. Unfortunately, he didn't realize that Betty having a "dark side" basically makes her his counterpart and not a perfect girl next door he thought she was.

Still don't care about Archie, but I do like Veronica, and she makes him a bit more palatable. 

I don't have any sympathy for Chuch. I don't care that he was a nice guy in the comics, and, go ahead and call me a racist, I don't really care if he's black or white or whatever. He's a dick. Full stop. Don't want to see him redeemed or anything like that. And the idea of Betty ever having a thing with him makes me want to vomit.

[scorp01]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

It's kind of funny because FP was chilling there, allowing the party to happen, but in a way, he was supervising it too. As soon as it got too rowdy, he broke it up immediately and everyone listened. It's funny that he became unintentionally helpful in that situation. I'd probably invite FP to parties more often if he can break them up if they get too violent but he's still cool with everything else. 

As for the Cheryl issue, yeah, everyone could have left. They all chose to stay.

I think FP was hanging around to see if he could get any more information about Jason's murder, rather than to supervise.  But he did come in handy once punches started being thrown.

[Snookums]

Quote

It's kind of funny because FP was chilling there, allowing the party to happen, but in a way, he was supervising it too. As soon as it got too rowdy, he broke it up immediately and everyone listened

FP is an excellent bouncer. He obviously watches Roadhouse at least twice a week.

I especially liked when he kicked Chuck out after he and Jughead exchanged punches. Chuck clearly isn't used to being manhandled but FP made it so clear with his body language that taking him on would be writing a check Chuck's butt couldn't cash. The difference between "high school bully" and "actual dangerous man" was shown without a word.

[rmontro]

14 hours ago, Bill1978 said:

That was probably the funniest part of the show for me. When Cheryl locked the door I instantly thought 'Umm Cheryl that won't keep people leaving as they can just unlock the door and walk out

I thought that was funny too, it was done in such a sinister manner.  But it was like "Wait, all she did was lock the door.  Anyone can unlock it and leave".  Oh well, it's silly things like this that keep me watching.

I thought it was kind of odd that Jughead's dad would be at the party.  Aren't these a bunch of high school kids?  Are they supposed to be seniors or what, anyone know?  If the law showed up Jughead's dad would be in hot water with all that alcohol there, he'd be contributing to the delinquence of multiple minors.  And then he straight up punches Chuck?  If Chuck is under 18 that could be another big issue.  Oh well, I guess if he cared about stuff like that he wouldn't be a Serpent.

[UNOSEZ]

Yes yes hooray to the middle aged alcoholic biker criminal thug who manhandled a teenager who his son just sucker punched.. 

[Chas411]

Alice being a serpent was the most interesting development. Jughead and his man pain was kind of dull but I love seeing FP.

[maxineofarc]

8 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

The thing is, the source material has mostly characters who are white and straight as far as I can recall. Although I've seen people posting about Jughead being asexual, but maybe that's happened in the last decade or two.

It's been made explicit in the last few years in the recent comics line, but for most of his 2D existence Jughead mostly just ran away from Ethel. I don't think he's ever been shown as very interested in dating.

[MarkHB]

Hi everyone,

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Your Faithful Moderators

[RealFantasies]

13 hours ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Quote

I'd rather watch an entirely white, straight "Riverdale" than this graceless fumbling, at least then, respect would be shown in acknowledging your own ignorance.

I am really really certain there would be flak to be caught if the show was all white and all straight. I absolutely think the lgbt and poc characters could be depicted *better* on this show, but there's utterly no way people wouldn't be complaining mightily if everyone in Riverdale was white and straight. And trust me, no one would be saying "well, I can at least respect that they're acknowledging their own ignorance".

Trust me, the negative stereotyping does FAR more damage. And literally hundreds of shows and films every year have all white, straight characters, hell, most the of CW's shows are, and there's no issue. Either do it right or don't bother, because getting it wrong just perpetuates ignorance.

Edited April 17, 2017 by RealFantasies

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Riverdale Throws Jughead The Birthday Bash He Never Wanted

Betty bets wrong that Juggie will enjoy a nice 'lowkey' surprise party, and what results is an overstuffed episode that still manages to satisfy with secrets and sex.

[maxineofarc]

A Nice Moment: After ranting about how Betty's never seen him without his stupid hat, in the later scene at Pop's Jughead wasn't wearing it.

[Chick2Chic]

I honestly don't see how Veronica is any type of good influence on Archie. She's not a bad influence and I like him but he's still doing his usual Archie stuff. They have ok chemistry but I'm not blown away. I know some of it my own saltiness about how Archie & Valerie dated offscreen after a hot kiss and some initial maturity from him with her before the bad HS drama ridiculousness of the last few eps plus my belief that Veronica has better sexual/romantic chemistry with the ladies on the show than with any of the guys on the show. That may change going forward but this episode did nothing more but confirm in my mind several things, none of them hopeful about the remainder of this season. 

13 hours ago, RealFantasies said:

Trust me, the negative stereotyping does FAR more damage. And literally hundreds of shows and films every year have all white, straight characters, hell, most the of CW's shows are, and there's no issue. Either do it right or don't bother, because getting it wrong just perpetuates ignorance.

And frustration. At least for me. I am very frustrated about the misuse of POC/LGBT characters on the show especially for the show to cast so many - one even on contract! I just wish the mainstream media cared more about too.

[truthaboutluv]

I always hesitate to get into these discussions because passions run very deep and to be frank, I feel it always tends to get messy, no matter how polite and respectful everyone tries to be. However, I am only going to say this and then I'm done. It has been TEN episodes - seriously. I feel the same as when people complain about lack of development of characters when like two episodes of a new show has aired. It seems a bit exaggerated to me to talk about this overwhelming consistent issues and negative portrayals on a show that's barely been around for little more than a few months. Especially when YMMV but I'm not seeing this overwhelming negative and/or stereotypical portrayals of minority characters. 

The fact is this is a fairly large cast and as is the case with shows with large casts, some characters don't get as much focus. And I don't know about anyone else, but frankly, yes, when I hear a show is based on the Archie Comics, I expected that the focus would be on Archie, Betty, Veronica and maybe Jughead. Frankly Jughead's overwhelming focus is a surprise to me but I think that's a result of the writers' love for Cole Sprouse. But putting all that aside, let's look at what's actually happened in said ten episodes regarding the minority characters. 

We met Josie and The Pussycats and the first time they're introduced, you can say Josie acts rude and bitchy to Archie. I'm sure if they'd left it at that, the show would be accused of feeding into the "angry black female" stereotype. However, the writers proceed to give Josie layers and nuance by showing she has obvious daddy issues, wanting to impress a father who treats her dismissively. Meanwhile, she appears to have a very good relationship with her mother and said mother happens to be the mayor of the town. Yes, a black woman is the mayor. And yes, her mother seems ambitious and possibly manipulative but with the exception of Fred Andrews (and who knows, that might change later), every parent and adult on this show has been shown to either be insane, manipulative, awful, lying, etc. All of them and they're all white. 

Then there is Kevin. Many complain not enough has been done with Kevin and his relationship with Joaquin was rushed and happened mostly off screen. Okay fair enough, except a common complaint about this show is that all the relationships have been rushed. Archie went from his so-called love for Grundy to making out with Veronica in a closet to being with Valerie a half a second after the Grundy mess to back to eyeing Veronica this week. And as much as many love Betty and Jughead, that's the same complaint some have about them. So yes, Kevin and Joaquin was fast tracked and they're not showing much of the relationship beyond us knowing that Joaquin is working to find out what Kevin's dad knows. But in these ten episodes we've also seen Kevin's relationship with his dad, however briefly, that highlighted their closeness and I don't know about others, but I thought those were sweet scenes.

Then there are the complaints about the lack of Reggie who we know had to do with time constraints because the actor was also filming another show while doing Riverdale. And then there's Chuck, who's been portrayed as a villain of sorts and this is a problem apparently because he's black. Except Chuck is hardly the only "bad" guy on this show or this big evil. No, that's the Blossom family who are all white. Veronica's dad is also seemingly an invisible evil force from a distance, at this point. FP is head of the Serpents which are apparently so awful that Jughead never wanted people to know that his father was in the Serpents. And it's clear there's something more going on with them, considering he has Joaquin dating Kevin to know what Sheriff Keller knows. All the finger pointing at this point for Jason's death has been at white characters - Cheryl, Jughead, possibly FP. 

I just don't feel like the show has done anything so egregious in ten episodes for the racist accusations to already start flying, in my opinion. Archie and Valerie's relationship was a blimp and that bothered some. Okay, I get it. Except I don't think that had anything to do with Valerie's being black and everything to do with Archie as a character being kind of all over the place. Again, he's kissing Cheryl, making annoyingly "jealous" faces every time Jughead is referred to as Betty's boyfriend, but then eyeing Veronica, etc. And again, it's only been ten episodes.

With all that is going on on this show, between the Coopers, Blossoms, Veronica's parents, Jason's murder, etc. of course not every character is going to be fully fleshed out and nuanced in ten episodes. Hell, some of the lead characters aren't even fully fleshed out and nuanced right now. Just recently, I read comments complaining about the writers not doing enough with Veronica's character and some expected more. How many comments has there been about how Archie as a character is kind of a mess. It just feels like some expect the show to be all things to everyone immediately and that's not fair or realistic. More importantly, it's only been ten episodes. It's like the writers and the show aren't being given any breathing room to grow before there's already the screams of, "why are you doing this, why aren't you showing this more, oh why is this character bad, etc.?"

Edited April 17, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[AdorkableSars]

On 4/15/2017 at 11:39 PM, WhosThatGirl said:

As for the sinners and saints part of the party, I was wondering when Cheryl locked the door, isn't there a back door? Like couldn't everyone just walk out the back way? Also I found it odd that FP was just like chilling at a party with teens. That's so weird.

 

On 4/16/2017 at 11:39 AM, rmontro said:

I thought that was funny too, it was done in such a sinister manner.  But it was like "Wait, all she did was lock the door.  Anyone can unlock it and leave".  Oh well, it's silly things like this that keep me watching.

Haha, yeah my first thought was that Jughead (or anyone) could've just unlocked the door after Cheryl locked it. I'm with you rmontro! But if I watched this show for the believability. I would've checked out quite a while ago!

[Chick2Chic]

37 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

With all that is going on on this show, between the Coopers, Blossoms, Veronica's parents, Jason's murder, etc. of course not every character is going to be fully fleshed out and nuanced in ten episodes. Hell, some of the lead characters aren't even fully fleshed out and nuanced right now. Just recently, I read comments complaining about the writers not doing enough with Veronica's character and some expected more. How many comments has there been about how Archie as a character is kind of a mess. It just feels like some expect the show to be all things to everyone immediately and that's not fair or realistic. More importantly, it's only been ten episodes. It's like the writers and the show aren't being given any breathing room to grow before there's already the screams of, "why are you doing this, why aren't you showing this more, oh why is this character bad, etc.?"

While you bring up some interesting points, I still mostly disagree. IMO, there's been a big shift since ep 7. Other than the terrible Grundy storyline, I thought the first 6 eps were more cohesive and mostly well-rounded in terms of character focus. And then it went downhill. I don't think the writers are racist but I think there's a big problem with how they balance the cast for the current stories and the characters getting the shaft seem to be the people of color . I mostly noticed this being a problem from episode 7 on.  

True that the show is based on Archie Comics, but that doesn't mean that the show can't do better in terms of giving more characters growth. Why have a large cast if you're not going to use them? I saw someone comment on twitter that we know more about Ethel in two eps than Josie (actress on contract), Reggie, Dilton, Melody, or Val (and she dated the show lead for a few eps!!). I'd have more sympathy for growing pains if Riverdale started off poorly/rocky but improved except I feel like the opposite has happened, where Riverdale started off stronger and then the wheels began coming off. 

Also, are we sure about Ross Butler and that filming schedule? Cause it seems like 13 Reasons Why filmed in the Bay Area during Summer 2016 and Riverdale started filming it's first season in September 2016 per wikipedia.

[jay741982]

2 hours ago, maxineofarc said:

A Nice Moment: After ranting about how Betty's never seen him without his stupid hat, in the later scene at Pop's Jughead wasn't wearing it.

That was a really sweet scene cause she got him to take his hat off and she confided in him about how she has the dark side and it scares her along with shoeing the cuts in her palms 

[HariboPeach]

Man, they are taking Betty down a dark path and I kind of love it. 

This was one of the more enjoyable episodes so far.

Veronica has chemistry with the doorknob she touched. Damn.

[truthaboutluv]

35 minutes ago, Chick2Chic said:

Why have a large cast if you're not going to use them? I saw someone comment on twitter that we know more about Ethel in two eps than Josie (actress on contract), Reggie, Dilton, Melody, or Val (and she dated the show lead for a few eps!!).

And that is exactly why criticisms such as this is a YMMV because is the quoted really true? We know what Chuck did to Ethel and that her dad was one of Mr. Lodge's victims. However both of these episodes were tied to a larger storyline and another character. The first being about Betty and Veronica going after Chuck and the second being about Veronica facing the reality of who her dad really is.

We've gotten no real personal look at Ethel's life and family and who she really is. She exists through the other characters, whereas, as mentioned above, we got a storyline that was solely focused on Josie and about her life. It didn't have anything to do with the lead characters. And YMMV but yeah I'm sorry, I just don't think realistically the writers can give nuance to and develop in ten episodes damn near every character that shows up, including every supporting character. 

Quote

Also, are we sure about Ross Butler and that filming schedule? Cause it seems like 13 Reasons Why filmed in the Bay Area during Summer 2016 and Riverdale started filming it's first season in September 2016 per wikipedia.

Filming for 13 Reasons Why took six months and as someone who's seen the entire series, his character is in it quite a bit.

Edited April 17, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Irish Lass]

I am loving all the twists this show is adding every week. Just when you think you have a grasp at the characters and the story they add a huge twist and it gets you thinking hard again. That keeps me wanting more and thinking throughout the week till the next episode on what they are going to give us next. I am loving this.

[HariboPeach]

7 minutes ago, Irish Lass said:

I am loving all the twists this show is adding every week. Just when you think you have a grasp at the characters and the story they add a huge twist and it gets you thinking hard again. That keeps me wanting more and thinking throughout the week till the next episode on what they are going to give us next. I am loving this.

Same here, I like that the show keeps me guessing. This show is the reason I created an account. I think it's awesome that an old comic book can be spun into what we see on the screen.

[Irish Lass]

3 minutes ago, HariboPeach said:

Same here, I like that the show keeps me guessing. This show is the reason I created an account. I think it's awesome that an old comic book can be spun into what we see on the screen.

Most definitely, I never read the comics but I know what they are and how the show is much darker then the comics. I also heard a lot of die hard Archie comics readers hated that part of the show. Maybe that was a good thing I never really read the comics. The whole plot twists each week are keeping me on the edge of the couch.

[TheLastKidPicked]

14 minutes ago, HariboPeach said:

I think it's awesome that an old comic book can be spun into what we see on the screen.

 

10 minutes ago, Irish Lass said:

I also heard a lot of die hard Archie comics readers hated that part of the show.

I can give you some perspective on that, because I'm one of the few people here who was into the comics long before the show was even a thought.  

If you were a fan of the comics, then there are a few nice suprises that are aimed at you, and only you.   A perfect example is the birthday cake decorated like a big hamburger.  

Edited April 17, 2017 by TheLastKidPicked

[HariboPeach]

Just now, TheLastKidPicked said:

 

I can give you some perspective on that, because I'm one of the few people here who read the comics long before the show was even a thought.  

If you were a fan of the comics, then there are a few nice suprises that are aimed at you, and only you.   A perfect example is the birthday cake decorated like a big hamburger.  

I was an avid reader of the comics too. My grandmother had boxes of the really old ones, so it was nice to read the originals compared to the new(er) ones. The show is nothing at all like the comics, but maybe this is how they would have been in the future. There were definitely no keggers in the 50's editions!

[TheLastKidPicked]

1 minute ago, HariboPeach said:

was an avid reader of the comics too.

Then you got the joke with the cake decorated like a big hamburger.

In the comics, Jug is asexual only because girls would interfere with his quest for more food.

[Irish Lass]

13 minutes ago, TheLastKidPicked said:

 

I can give you some perspective on that, because I'm one of the few people here who was into the comics long before the show was even a thought.  

If you were a fan of the comics, then there are a few nice suprises that are aimed at you, and only you.   A perfect example is the birthday cake decorated like a big hamburger.  

Even though I never read the comics I was aware the Jughead loved hamburgers and food. I remember watching an old Archie cartoon on Hulu and he loved food.

[catrice2]

Well, I don't want to age myself too much, but I can safely say the Jughead in the show is not the Jughead in the comics....and the same for a few other characters.  Jughead absolutely loved food, and he and Reggie loved to needle each other.   As one who was always on the "pick Veronica" train, I am waiting for the inevitable Archie is with Veronica, breaks up and is with Betty nonsense.  I always felt sorry for Reggie, just hanging around for Archie's leftovers as if there were no other girls in town.  I really always felt that Betty and Archie (in the comics) were too similar and Veronica was so elitist that she and Archie made a good contrast. 

With the personalities created for this show, however, I like the pairing of Betty and Jughead.....to a point.  He is a lot too whiny for me.   Archie is just bland, and I don't know if I can remember more than one scene with Reggie.  Since they are really focusing on the Archie/Jughead friendship I am curious to see how they will handle Archie and Betty getting together and the friendship remaining...especially since they already have issues because of their fathers. 

I personally did not have to have Josie and the Pussycats in the show, but if they are there, then use them.  Maybe they should have slowly introduced characters and held some for season two. 

I'm old, so I really don't remember much about Chuck or the Blossoms from the earlier comics.  I can't say I am loving the focus on the Blossoms.  I think they should have saved this storyline for season two.  No one is invested in who killed Jason because they didn't know him, or how he interacted with anyone else. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

2 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

And that is exactly why criticisms such as this is a YMMV because is the quoted really true? We know what Chuck did to Ethel and that her dad was one of Mr. Lodge's victims. However both of these episodes were tied to a larger storyline and another character. The first being about Betty and Veronica going after Chuck and the second being about Veronica facing the reality of who her dad really is.

We've gotten no real personal look at Ethel's life and family and who she really is. She exists through the other characters, whereas, as mentioned above, we got a storyline that was solely focused on Josie and about her life. It didn't have anything to do with the lead characters. And YMMV but yeah I'm sorry, I just don't think realistically the writers can give nuance to and develop in ten episodes damn near every character that shows up, including every supporting character. 

I think that if someone were to try to do some relatively objective quantitative measure like lines or screen time, it likely would show that Ethel has gotten more of both overall than most of the other people listed.

If you look at qualitative measures, that would be more a YMMV situation. 

[Bill1978]

41 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

No one is invested in who killed Jason because they didn't know him, or how he interacted with anyone else. 

I am, it's the hook that got me into the show and I am always disappointed when an episode does not provide some new bit of information in his murder. I'm not here for the relationships (too many teen dramas in my youth have taught me there is no point caring about who hooks up with who as it will change on the whim of the writers for drama). I'm here for the murder and the ridiculousness

[Irish Lass]

43 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Well, I don't want to age myself too much, but I can safely say the Jughead in the show is not the Jughead in the comics....and the same for a few other characters.  Jughead absolutely loved food, and he and Reggie loved to needle each other.   As one who was always on the "pick Veronica" train, I am waiting for the inevitable Archie is with Veronica, breaks up and is with Betty nonsense.  I always felt sorry for Reggie, just hanging around for Archie's leftovers as if there were no other girls in town.  I really always felt that Betty and Archie (in the comics) were too similar and Veronica was so elitist that she and Archie made a good contrast. 

With the personalities created for this show, however, I like the pairing of Betty and Jughead.....to a point.  He is a lot too whiny for me.   Archie is just bland, and I don't know if I can remember more than one scene with Reggie.  Since they are really focusing on the Archie/Jughead friendship I am curious to see how they will handle Archie and Betty getting together and the friendship remaining...especially since they already have issues because of their fathers. 

I personally did not have to have Josie and the Pussycats in the show, but if they are there, then use them.  Maybe they should have slowly introduced characters and held some for season two. 

I'm old, so I really don't remember much about Chuck or the Blossoms from the earlier comics.  I can't say I am loving the focus on the Blossoms.  I think they should have saved this storyline for season two.  No one is invested in who killed Jason because they didn't know him, or how he interacted with anyone else. 

Reggie hasn't been in the show that much at all so far. Someone told me he is involved in another project which might be the reason for the lack of use of his character at the moment. I am not sure if that is completely true though. When Reggie is on screen he just doesn't seem to fit in as well. I know all the characters look older than the 15-16 years old they are suppose to be, but the actor that plays Reggie looks like he is pushing 30. That actor just does not work for me.

[catrice2]

1 hour ago, Irish Lass said:

Reggie hasn't been in the show that much at all so far. Someone told me he is involved in another project which might be the reason for the lack of use of his character at the moment. I am not sure if that is completely true though. When Reggie is on screen he just doesn't seem to fit in as well. I know all the characters look older than the 15-16 years old they are suppose to be, but the actor that plays Reggie looks like he is pushing 30. That actor just does not work for me.

I've seen so little of him that I can't remember what he looks like.  That's good because if he is such as bad fit it would not be a big deal to recast him for next season. If I am totally honest sometimes it feels as if Jughead is in a different show,or should be in a different show.  It is more, to me, than just him being "different," I also feel like he does not fit with the rest of the crew. The only time he is ok to me is when it is just Jughead and Betty.....oh, and I see zero chemistry with Archie's father and Veronica's mother.

Edited April 18, 2017 by catrice2
correct spelling

[Irish Lass]

16 hours ago, catrice2 said:

I've seen so little of him that I can't remember what he looks like.  That's good because if he is such as bad fit it would not be a big deal to recast him for next season. If I am totally honest sometimes it feels as if Jughead is in a different show,or should be in a different show.  It is more, to me, than just him being "different," I also feel like he does not fit with the rest of the crew. The only time he is ok to me is when it is just Judhead and Betty.....oh, and I see zero chemistry with Archie's father and Veronica's mother.

Reggie is the tall Asian character that mostly has been seen in scenes with Moose, but it has been very rare. I think the only character that may have been seen less is Dilton and he even made an appearance last week. Jughead though to me is a very good actor. You are right though as the chemistry with Archie is not working just yet and hopefully that will change as they really haven't used them together that much because they were supposedly in some sort of feud but now that is changing. I hope the more the two actors work together the better it gets. Betty and Jughead together are the best together in my opinion. They sometimes carry the show. I am actually shocked at the lack of performance that I feel that Luke Perry is giving as Archie's dad. I thought he would be good, but it doesn't seem to work. Actually in my opinion other than maybe crazy Betty's Mom and on rare occasions Cheryl's crazy Mom the younger actors outshine the older actors in the show in my opinion.

Edited April 18, 2017 by Irish Lass

[HariboPeach]

2 hours ago, catrice2 said:

Well, I don't want to age myself too much, but I can safely say the Jughead in the show is not the Jughead in the comics....and the same for a few other characters.  Jughead absolutely loved food, and he and Reggie loved to needle each other.   As one who was always on the "pick Veronica" train, I am waiting for the inevitable Archie is with Veronica, breaks up and is with Betty nonsense.  I always felt sorry for Reggie, just hanging around for Archie's leftovers as if there were no other girls in town.  I really always felt that Betty and Archie (in the comics) were too similar and Veronica was so elitist that she and Archie made a good contrast. 

With the personalities created for this show, however, I like the pairing of Betty and Jughead.....to a point.  He is a lot too whiny for me.   Archie is just bland, and I don't know if I can remember more than one scene with Reggie.  Since they are really focusing on the Archie/Jughead friendship I am curious to see how they will handle Archie and Betty getting together and the friendship remaining...especially since they already have issues because of their fathers. 

I personally did not have to have Josie and the Pussycats in the show, but if they are there, then use them.  Maybe they should have slowly introduced characters and held some for season two. 

I'm old, so I really don't remember much about Chuck or the Blossoms from the earlier comics.  I can't say I am loving the focus on the Blossoms.  I think they should have saved this storyline for season two.  No one is invested in who killed Jason because they didn't know him, or how he interacted with anyone else. 

I was also on the Veronica and Archie train in the comics. I loved Betty, but I always felt she was way more into Archie than the other way around and I felt like she could do better. Archie and Veronica had a lot more chemistry (in comic book form at least). Reggie was a jerk but more likable than he is in the show.

[catrice2]

2 hours ago, HariboPeach said:

I was also on the Veronica and Archie train in the comics. I loved Betty, but I always felt she was way more into Archie than the other way around and I felt like she could do better. Archie and Veronica had a lot more chemistry (in comic book form at least). Reggie was a jerk but more likable than he is in the show.

I'm sure the comics have changed a lot since I read them in the dark ages, but in the ones I read Archie was way more into Veronica than Betty.  It was painfully obvious that he was more interested in Betty when he was on the outs with Veronica, and that Betty liked him more.  It was almost like he knew that Betty was the type of girl he SHOULD like and his interest  in her was more about what was easy or what was expected.  That's not to say that he didn't like her as a friend an did not like having her be so interested in him for his ego.

 That's another reason I always hoped Betty and Reggie would get together. For Reggie (at least at that time) it was also obvious that Veronica was only interested in him when she was mad at Archie.   I always felt a little sorry for Betty and Reggie and mad at the comic writers for making them seem so desperate.  My understanding that later comics moved Archie into relationships with  other (Valerie) girls , but I am not sure if they gave other relationships to Betty and Veronica?? 

Back to the show -just saw the dance off on rewatch.  I don't think either of them were killing it.  I really wish they would have made them college students instead of high school.  Some of them look way too old for high school. 

[Bill1978]

14 minutes ago, catrice2 said:

Back to the show -just saw the dance off on rewatch.  I don't think either of them were killing it

Phew, I thought I was the only one. The choreography was cringe worthy and the execution very lame. I couldn't wait for the scene to end. Somehow they made cheerleading really boring...for the second time on this show. Maybe the show runners hate cheerleaders.

[Sisygambis]

I re-watched the episode with friends tonight and what jumped out to me this time was the length of time the Blossom family had been making payments to the Lodges - 75 years.  Could great-grandfather Lodge be involved in great-grandfather Cooper's murder?  The more I think about it, the two murders must be connected somehow.

[Chas411]

Quote

Phew, I thought I was the only one. The choreography was cringe worthy and the execution very lame. I couldn't wait for the scene to end.

Same here I thought the entire dance was mortifying. I didn't even think it looked choreographed it was just both girls trying to out gyrate each other.

[maxineofarc]

5 hours ago, Chas411 said:

Same here I thought the entire dance was mortifying. I didn't even think it looked choreographed it was just both girls trying to out gyrate each other.

What's that German word for vicarious embarrassment? Because that is what I felt watching that. I'm officially old.

I do remember having an Archie comic where Cheryl Blossom tried to start a topless beach, so she's always been a little unpredictable.

[NutmegsDad]

One thing that has bothered me since this episode.

Since Cheryl had a hand in Chuck's downfall from the team through #hashtagjustice, and since Cheryl knew what Chuck and the other players were doing, why would Chuck and Cheryl team up with each other to bring out the secrets at the party?