Zach and Tori

[LilyD]

On 10/21/2022 at 7:52 PM, Redrum said:

A c-section is major abdominal surgery. Like Tory or hate her, any woman whose had a c-section isn't calling it anything but major abdominal surgery.

Thank you for saying this! Two of mine were born this way and it frankly makes me sick when people shrug it off as “the easy birth” or too afraid to give birth. It literally saved lives here! It was worth the long recovery. (6 weeks to go back to normal and then another z6-8 weeks to rebuild your strength)

I remember the OB talking to Tori about the potential risk of giving birth to Jackson naturally. His bigger than average head was a serious problem and she could have experienced the same like me, which I don’t wish for anyone. I can only applaud her for taking the doctor’s advice and putting her body through massive surgery instead of trying to do it naturally and put the baby at risk. A c-section isn’t easy, particularly when you already have one or two kids and a lazy husband like Tori!

[BAForever]

45 minutes ago, LilyD said:

Thank you for saying this! Two of mine were born this way and it frankly makes me sick when people shrug it off as “the easy birth” or too afraid to give birth. 

Lily D. I commented on that and certainly meant no disrespect to women who have had C sections. I was showering and chilling in hospital after a vaginal birth while my roomie (full maternity wing that day) was moaning with a catheter. Mine was so much easier. 

My comment was her verbage- "major abdominal surgery", which I know it is. It just sounded strange as opposed to "C-section."

Apologies for my lack of clarity.

Edited November 7, 2022 by BAForever

[suev3333]

Zac and Tori can pound sand. I'm over them.     They need to grow up.   I know Caryn isn't an angel but to me I could see she really cares about and loves the grandkids. And they love her. And you can tell she's sad she can't see them anymore .   I like Caryn.....but that's MO

[Redrum]

I'm not without sympathy for Caryn, but whatever she said in that deal meeting offended Tory and Zach enough that they're willing to apparently greatly inconvenience themselves to keep her away from the kids. The kids belong to Zach and Tory, maybe Caryn should consider why they've made this judgment call.

[b4pjoe]

5 hours ago, Redrum said:

I'm not without sympathy for Caryn, but whatever she said in that deal meeting offended Tory and Zach enough that they're willing to apparently greatly inconvenience themselves to keep her away from the kids. The kids belong to Zach and Tory, maybe Caryn should consider why they've made this judgment call.

I can’t imagine Caryn said anything so terrible that would warrant never letting her see those kids again or meet the latest one. I’ll need a word by word account of the meeting before I believe it. Not taking Zach and Tori’s word of it.

[Redrum]

53 minutes ago, b4pjoe said:

I can’t imagine Caryn said anything so terrible that would warrant never letting her see those kids again or meet the latest one. I’ll need a word by word account of the meeting before I believe it. Not taking Zach and Tori’s word of it.

Thats certainly your right but you're unlikely to get it. The decision, by both sides, is that the details won't be shared. 

I also would simply say that Caryn may not feel she said anything so terrible or that she was simply being honest. Zach and Tory may be overreacting or may be terrible people keeping their children away from Caryn out of spite. But... their kids, their call. Caryn is not owed access. 

I do think Caryn is capable of saying something unkind or disrespectful and since she doesn't seem that apologetic over it, she's also making the choice to keep the kids at bay. Neither Zach or Tory seem like they wouldn't accept a genuine apology.

[65mickey]

There is nothing more selfish than adult children using thier children to punish grandparents. We only see what is on the TV show and none of us knows what was said by whom at the meeting over the farm sale. But I have not seen anything that would warrant Zach andTori keeping their children away from Caryn. Caryn has been shown to be nothing but loving and caring to their children and Jackson especially was very fond of her.  It's telling that before the farm sale fiasco Caryn and Matt were fine grandparents and babysitters. All of a sudden Zach wants nothing to do with Caryn.  I agree that these children belong to Zach and Tori and it's up to them to decide who can see their children but I feel like it is a selfish move that in the long run hurts the children as much as it hurts Matt and Caryn. But this is the ultimate way to punish Matt for not getting their way about the farm. And I would not be surprised if Amy was not in some way behind this.

[Libby]

Zach and Tori aren't keeping their kids from their grandparents. Matt and Amy, the grandparents, both see the children. 

Caryn isn't related to Zach and Tori's children.

[Ms.Lulu]

I remember reading that when the sale fell through Tori and Zach had two issues with Caryn.

• Caryn was in the negotiations and ZiT didn't believe she should be there because she was not Matt's wife
• When things got heated Caryn was the person who said that the negotiations were over

If Caryn had said something about ZiT's family I think it would have been shared. There is no reason for Zach or Tori not to share it. Such a claim would surely throw sympathy their way.

Edited November 8, 2022 by Ms.Lulu

[65mickey]

So if she and Matt were married it would be OK with Caryn seeing the grandchildren like Chris is allowed to see the children? I doubt it seriously.  I still question why it was fine for Caryn to spend time a lot of time with the children but now all of a sudden she is not welcome. Oh wait there was the farm sale that fell through and Zach and Tori blame her. It is nothing more then revenge on their part.  

If i were Caryn I would quit the show and leave Matt. She doesn't need this crap from these two entitled ingrates. And I am sure Matt is torn and like he should he will not let this get in the way of seeing his grandchildren. 

[b4pjoe]

15 hours ago, Redrum said:

Thats certainly your right but you're unlikely to get it. The decision, by both sides, is that the details won't be shared.

Until I get proof, which yeah I likely never will, I choose to believe that Zach and Tori are just throwing a tantrum for not getting their way. That seems a lot more likely to me than Caryn saying something so egregious that she is now dead to them. It seems that eventually Matt will be forced to make a choice. And that is never good.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

It's time to find the topic.  This is the Zach and Tori thread.  It is not the all episodes thread.  It is definitely not Caryn's thread.  Posts that are primarily about Z&T with some reference to others are okay.  Posts that only mention Z&T as an aside are not. Capice? 

Posts have been removed.

[Grrarrggh]

I know nothing about genes and probability, but is it surprising that all of their kids are LP? Especially as Tori isn't. Amy and Matt both are yet only 1 out of four kids is a LP.

[Jeanne222]

2 hours ago, Grrarrggh said:

I know nothing about genes and probability, but is it surprising that all of their kids are LP? Especially as Tori isn't. Amy and Matt both are yet only 1 out of four kids is a LP.

Last week Zack mentioned that the doctor told them Zack might have a gene and all of his children will be dwarfs.

[SunnyBeBe]

Yeah, you’ve heard of a super spreader….as in covid?  Well Zach claims he’s a super dwarf spreader.  Genes so strong they overcome all non dwarf genes. Lol. No nondwarfs will come through his loins!  Just kidding.  It doesn’t work like that, but I think Zach doesn’t know that. Lol. He’s fully impressed with his record.  
 

I found this and I’ll admit I’m a little confused.  I’ve studied this in school, but for some reason I didn’t realize the dwarf gene needs one from each parent and an average size parent could have a recessive gene that pairs with the dwarf parents gene to create a dwarf child.  Sooooo….does that mean what I think it means?  Hmmmmm…..I’ve never heard Tori mention that.  

https://www.thetech.org/ask-a-geneticist/inheriting-dwarfism

Edited November 9, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[Redrum]

4 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yeah, you’ve heard of a super spreader….as in covid?  Well Zach 
 

I found this and I’ll admit I’m a little confused.  I’ve studied this in school, but for some reason I didn’t realize the dwarf gene needs one from each parent and an average size parent could have a recessive gene that pairs with the dwarf parents gene to create a dwarf child.  Sooooo….does that mean what I think it means?  Hmmmmm…..I’ve never heard Tori mention that.

She likely doesn't have a dwarf gene recessive or dominant, if that's what you're thinking.

Zach has achondroplasia and its dominant. Any child he has with any average height woman will have a 50% chance of inheriting his dwarfism. 

He likely also carries the gene for dystrophic dwarfism which is Matt's form. If one of the kids had dystrophic dwarfism then Tory would also have to be a carrier as it is recessive. But all the kids are achondroplasic so its all Zach's genes.

[Absolom]

First I think the doctor was joking with Zach and whether Zach was serious or joking I'm not sure.   Zach has achondroplasia which as I understand it is dominant so worrying about the recessive portion isn't needed here.  Only one copy of the mutated gene is needed for the child to have dwarfism.  

Each conception has a 50% chance of resulting in a dwarf child. Zach and Tori have been on the less likely but obviously still possible flipping of the genetic dice.  Each pregnancy has it's own 50% chance so the odds don't change based on the prior pregnancies.  

[SunnyBeBe]

10 minutes ago, Absolom said:

First I think the doctor was joking with Zach and whether Zach was serious or joking I'm not sure.   Zach has achondroplasia which as I understand it is dominant so worrying about the recessive portion isn't needed here.  Only one copy of the mutated gene is needed for the child to have dwarfism.  

Each conception has a 50% chance of resulting in a dwarf child. Zach and Tori have been on the less likely but obviously still possible flipping of the genetic dice.  Each pregnancy has it's own 50% chance so the odds don't change based on the prior pregnancies.  

This is how I originally understood it.  I suppose that is different than the one described in the link above.  I found this. 
 

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/condition/achondroplasia/#inheritance

Edited November 9, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[Back Atcha]

On 11/6/2022 at 6:54 PM, BAForever said:

My comment was her verbage- "major abdominal surgery", which I know it is. It just sounded strange as opposed to "C-section."

She needed to emphasize the seriousness of the procedure/recuperation; too many have no idea that it's MAJOR ABDOMINAL SURGERY ... that takes six weeks to recover WHILE taking care of a newborn and other kids at home.  Perhaps some former C-Section mom in Production provided "her verbiage" in order to educate viewers.

[Phoebe70]

I really dislike every time Zach gleefully exclaims that he has a “dwarf tribe.” It rubs me the wrong way. Has he forgotten all the surgeries and shunt issues he’s had? Why would he want the possibility of major medical issues for his children? Jackson’s already had issues with his legs. Lilah has delayed speech, as well as eye problems. It just seems so smug and selfish when he brags about having a dwarf tribe, team of dwarves, dwarf posse, etc. 

[Absolom]

It may be overcompensation.

[Libby]

1 hour ago, Phoebe70 said:

I really dislike every time Zach gleefully exclaims that he has a “dwarf tribe.” It rubs me the wrong way. Has he forgotten all the surgeries and shunt issues he’s had? Why would he want the possibility of major medical issues for his children? Jackson’s already had issues with his legs. Lilah has delayed speech, as well as eye problems. It just seems so smug and selfish when he brags about having a dwarf tribe, team of dwarves, dwarf posse, etc. 

What's he supposed to say? His children are little people. He is a little person. His parents are little people. Should he cry and be depressed over it? Tori and Zach both knew when they got married and had children that they had a 50/50 chance of a little person with every pregnancy. They also knew that there are medical issues associated with dwarfism. They decided to have children and are happy with their family. The kids are adorable and happy. Zach and Tori should be and are proud of their kids. Yay little people posse!

Edited November 11, 2022 by Libby

[Absolom]

From the Matt and Caryn thread:

Quote

I agree that it's entertaining to watch Jackson in his everyday life; however, I still can't understand a word he says without the "closed captioning."

Of course, Lilah is very cute, too, but has very limited language ability.

Is that a typical trait of dwarfism? 

I recall that the Klein kids, Zoey and Will, in "The Little Couple" also had language difficulties but steps were taken to give them speech therapy. The show was cancelled so I don't know how well they are communicating verbally now.  

Apparently speech therapy is common for kids with achondroplasia.

Quote

In achondroplasia hearing loss due to recurrent otitis media and Eustachian tube dysfunction, macroglossia, tongue thrust, mouth size/proportions, and muscle hypotonicity are the main causes for speech delay and incorrect articulation. Macroglossia in particular can interfere with tongue tip sounds and can obstruct the airways, making sleeping and breathing more difficult.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Absolom

[TipseyGirl]

18 hours ago, Phoebe70 said:

I really dislike every time Zach gleefully exclaims that he has a “dwarf tribe.” It rubs me the wrong way. Has he forgotten all the surgeries and shunt issues he’s had? Why would he want the possibility of major medical issues for his children? Jackson’s already had issues with his legs. Lilah has delayed speech, as well as eye problems. It just seems so smug and selfish when he brags about having a dwarf tribe, team of dwarves, dwarf posse, etc. 

Well, Zach is a proven idiot. So there's that.

Edited November 11, 2022 by TipseyGirl

[Back Atcha]

I doubt if Zack even considered all HIS physical, medical, social, and DAILY difficulties--OR those of ALL "little people," when he "gleefully" uses the term "dwarf tribe." Consider how that minority is ALWAYS ridiculed...made fun of in life, in movies, and on television--not to mention bullied and beat up--and not just as children.  And it never ends...on this website their body shapes are ridiculed. Even the way they walk.  Many are lucky to walk at all!

Actors are usually relegated to parts of elves, evil characters, magical creatures, the butt of jokes, etc.

Not only was Zach the ONLY dwarf child in his family, he was a twin--A TWIN of a tall and athletic brother. You think THAT hasn't affected his entire life?? 

I believe Zach LOVES having some "little me's" in his life--his tribe.  How can it be anything but an endearing term...and especially something that obviously means a lot to him?  To him, to Tori, and eventually to the kids.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Back Atcha

[BAForever]

On 11/11/2022 at 2:23 PM, Back Atcha said:

I doubt if Zack even considered all HIS physical, medical, social, and DAILY difficulties--OR those of ALL "little people," when he "gleefully" uses the term "dwarf tribe." Consider how that minority is ALWAYS ridiculed...made fun of in life, in movies, and on television--not to mention bullied and beat up--and not just as children.  And it never ends...on this website their body shapes are ridiculed. Even the way they walk.  Many are lucky to walk at all!

Actors are usually relegated to parts of elves, evil characters, magical creatures, the butt of jokes, etc.

Not only was Zach the ONLY dwarf child in his family, he was a twin--A TWIN of a tall and athletic brother. You think THAT hasn't affected his entire life?? 

I believe Zach LOVES having some "little me's" in his life--his tribe.  How can it be anything but an endearing term...and especially something that obviously means a lot to him?  To him, to Tori, and eventually to

Research validates the theory that people like it when others are "like them". Black children do better in school with Black Teachers. We are much more inclusive with children's toys now too, remember when most dolls were white with blue eyes? Our high school cheer team now includes special needs cheerleaders.  Zach makes sense  wanting others he loves to be like him.

Edited November 13, 2022 by BAForever
Reflection

[ginger90]

Edited November 12, 2022 by ginger90

[Back Atcha]

3 hours ago, BAForever said:

Zach is an idiot, but it makes sense him wanting others he loves to be like him.

I wish this sentence were worded differently.  I prefer to read it as a kind thought...but that "idiot" term kind makes me wonder.  

[BAForever]

6 hours ago, Back Atcha said:

I wish this sentence were worded differently.  I prefer to read it as a kind thought...but that "idiot" term kind makes me wonder.  

I agree,  Back Atcha- Kind of passive-agressive on my part. I'll change it. I try to admit when I'm wrong. 

Edited November 13, 2022 by BAForever

[Back Atcha]

1 hour ago, BAForever said:

7 hours ago, Back Atcha said:

I wish this sentence were worded differently.  I prefer to read it as a kind thought...but that "idiot" term kind makes me wonder.  

I agree,  Back Atcha- Kind of passive-agressive on my part. I'll change it. I try to admit when I'm wrong. 

Thanks, BAForever ... I sometimes notice my passive-aggressiveness too.  I'm 82 and learned at my mother's knee.  😇

[hottesthw]

On 11/7/2022 at 8:12 PM, Libby said:

Zach and Tori aren't keeping their kids from their grandparents. Matt and Amy, the grandparents, both see the children. 

Caryn isn't related to Zach and Tori's children.

And that right there shows how petty and childish they are. They can’t hurt her in any other way but to use their kids as weapons. Speaks more about them then it does caryn. 

[Absolom]

Zach apparently answered questions on Instagram:

https://people.com/parents/zach-roloff-gives-update-on-how-son-jackson-5-is-healing-after-surgery-its-tough/

In particular he said Jackson was progressing after the leg surgery, but that it will take a long time to see results.

[ginger90]

2 hours ago, Absolom said:

Zach apparently answered questions on Instagram:

https://people.com/parents/zach-roloff-gives-update-on-how-son-jackson-5-is-healing-after-surgery-its-tough/

In particular he said Jackson was progressing after the leg surgery, but that it will take a long time to see results.

He engaged on Instagram, and the next post was a link to a GoFundMe for his soccer team.

[ginger90]

[Irate Panda]

6 hours ago, ginger90 said:

Considering the nonsense that poor dog probably witnesses she’s likely he just ate a bagel and didn’t drink a glass of wine and pop a Valium 😒

[ginger90]

[stoppro]

It looks to be a bit much for a 3 year old. Looks like 'ptomaine' amy is there also.         

[Ms.Lulu]

I think it is strange that they like to set that child on the kitchen island.

Can't they put that child on a booster seat at a table?

[Teriacky]

Which three year old is Lilah waling up? (Sometimes it’s hard to believe Tori has a teaching credential…).

[65mickey]

17 hours ago, Teriacky said:

Which three year old is Lilah waling up? (Sometimes it’s hard to believe Tori has a teaching credential…).

What does this mean waling up? There is a whole new lingo out there that I have missed.

[ginger90]

[Teriacky]

More of a mood?

[stoppro]

4 hours ago, ginger90 said:

WTF?

[Irate Panda]

Can some translate what Tori is trying to say?

[Dustbunny]

1 hour ago, Irate Panda said:

Can some translate what Tori is trying to say?

Tori desperately wants to sound "cool", "hip", "on trend" or whatever the current term is but she just falls flat.

I checked Tori's instagram of Lilah's birthday and she described Lilah as acting "sassy" strutting around with her new backpack etc so I'm thinking "Mood" means being sassy, strutting, showing off.

She also labels pics of her kids "I JUST CAN'T!!!!" to express how unbelievably cute and talented her kids are (especially Jackson who can literally make a silly face and Tori loses her mind exclaiming how amazing he is)

Just my opinion but I think Tori's over compensating, exaggerating and trying to build their confidence knowing the challenges they face in the future, unfortunately I think she's building them up (Jackson in particular) so high that they'll be disappointed when other people don't have the same reaction to every silly thing they do.

[Absolom]

3 hours ago, Dustbunny said:

Just my opinion but I think Tori's over compensating, exaggerating and trying to build their confidence knowing the challenges they face in the future, unfortunately I think she's building them up (Jackson in particular) so high that they'll be disappointed when other people don't have the same reaction to every silly thing they do.

Exactly.  She's like a parent I met who told me that she had to build up her child super high because as soon as she started school the world would start cutting her down.  I had to bite my tongue.  As the kid's teacher I could see daily where the other kids were putting her in her place because she was so "big headed" from mama.  I think a helping of humility and big dose of realism helps the kids get the best start at least in kindergarten. 

I posted that and then saw this:

https://people.com/parents/tori-zach-roloff-discuss-fears-son-jackson-dwarfism-exclusive/

Zach is concerned Jackson is getting a bit above himself and Tori says they have to keep building him up.  They seem to be struggling with the differences of a false impression of himself and his place in the world, confidence (which is a good thing), and the effects of realizing what dwarfism will mean for Jackson's life.  It's good they're talking about it.  Zach seems to have not had the support he should have growing up.  No shock there.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Absolom

[AgathaC]

15 hours ago, Dustbunny said:

Just my opinion but I think Tori's over compensating, exaggerating and trying to build their confidence knowing the challenges they face in the future, unfortunately I think she's building them up (Jackson in particular) so high that they'll be disappointed when other people don't have the same reaction to every silly thing they do.

Yep. Reminds me of my 11-year-old stepson. His mom and her parents (he’s an only child and grandchild) have always treated him like God’s chosen anointed one. He’s not a bad kid, but he seems genuinely surprised when people don’t fall all over themselves laughing and fussing over everything he says. It’s been a problem with my family (where he’s one of a pack of kids) because to his mind, if they’re not making a fuss over him, it must mean they don’t like him.

Can also be a struggle in school. The adulation has helped create a kid who’s both lazy and a perfectionist. If he isn’t the absolute best, he falls apart, but doesn’t understand the concept of working to improve.

All that to say, building a kid up too far, no matter how well-intentioned, can do a lot of damage.

[Dibs]

I can only hope this whole thing with ZiT, Matt, and the farm is producer-driven manufactured drama for ratings.  I would hate to think Matt fought his way though disability to success only to have his golden years marred by a "sharper than a serpent's tooth" child.  Reminds me of Queen Elizabeth and the Harkles.

The fact that ZiT is "so offended" is NOT proof that anything "offensive" was said or done.  It's called being a millennial snowflake.  Or is it Gen Z; Gen X?  All the same...

My understanding is that they offered a little more than Matt paid Amy (the actual value at that time being twice the value since he paid her for only half of the jointly owned property), which property has now increased in market value 2-3 times.  To make it happen for that number, he reduced the acreage, ZiT didn't like that, things got heated, Caryn stopped it lest things be said that couldn't be taken back, and ZiT stormed off in an entitled huff.  Oh, they wanted Matt to maintain the property!

If ZiT didn't want Caryn in the meeting, GUESS WHAT?  They didn't have to go into a meeting with Caryn there!  But they did!!!  Since they were all buddy-buddy until that moment, they no doubt thought she would be advocating for their position...

"Because we've been in this whole thing together all along" was the reason given.

In short (no pun intended), ZiT is absolutely ridiculous!!!

Edited November 22, 2022 by Dibs

[Absolom]

My view of Matt has never been that rosy.  What I've seen is a manipulator whose family got tired of it.  I wouldn't last long around him without calling him on it.  Tori also would drive me around the bend in short order.  I don't know what she learned in education classes, but she needs to go to some good parenting classes.  It looks like Zach and Matt went into the negotiation using the same tactics rather than in good faith and not surprisingly it blew up.  Zach did learn a few things from Matt.

[Back Atcha]

13 minutes ago, Absolom said:

It looks like Zach and Matt went into the negotiation using the same tactics rather than in good faith and not surprisingly it blew up. 

I'll always wonder how things would have gone if Caryn hadn't been the Negotiator in Chief.