Season 1 Talk

[Reghan]

I watched the series within about 20 hours. That last episode was hard to watch, but they definitely left it open for a season 2. I've been waiting for this for 10 years, and the show was much more than I had imagined. They did such an amazing job with it! I'm glad they could go into so much more depth with each character. I wouldn't mind one more season. I'm really interested in finding out what happens to everyone. I will be rewatching this show over and over for years to come.

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, AttackTurtle said:

 And speaking of Jessica, I don't see her Dad sitting on the information of what happened to her.

Me neither. He told Jessica he'd kill anyone who hurt her and he's also military, so he's likely got a strong sense of fairness and is used to seeing actions have consequences. I don't think he'd actually kill Bryce but I do think he'd go straight to the cops.

[QQQQ]

I swear he's channeling Brian Krakow.

[mansonlamps]

3 hours ago, DittyDotDot said:

While I agree it would be unusual for teens to have cassette players, I'm pretty sure my 14-year-old niece knows what a cassette is, even if she hasn't used one herself. I think it's reasonable that a guy like Tony would have a cassette player in his car and the other kids would've been able to find one just like Clay did. I used to keep an old boom box in my garage until recently, so it totally made sense to me.

I was telling a friend the show reminded me of both Pretty Little Liars--although I only watched a couple episodes of it--and Veronica Mars. 

I agree, I know what a Victrola is, doesn't mean I've ever used or actually even seen one.  I loved Veronica Mars and really want to like this, but the first episode didn't really grab me.  Frankly, I find Hannah a little off-putting for some reason.  I'll try at least one more episode though.

[tennisgurl]

I read this book quite a few years ago, so I cant say I remember all the details, so I'm looking forward to revisiting the story. I remember really liking the book, but being frequently irritated with the characters, so I'm interested in seeing how they translate it from book to TV, especially the Netflix format. I liked this episode, so I'm excited to get back to watching! I kind of want to go online to be reminded of what all happens, but I also want to be surprised by things I didn't remember, so...I don't know. On to the next episode I guess.

I don't mind the tape thing (although I feel like, by 2017, Hannah would have recorded this some other way) because I think most parents still have cassette players laying around, so I buy it. It adds to the old school teen noir thing it has going on. I also see the Veronica Mars comparison, with the voice over and the main character trying to piece together the circumstances of a friends death.

[Nkiru]

On 2017-04-01 at 0:59 PM, absnow54 said:

This show is sort of toeing the Manic-Pixie-Dream-Girl line that was popular during the John Green era a little too hard, and the analog tape catalog being traded between teenagers in 2017 is a little much. You could have gotten away with it in 2007 when the book was written, because it was a plausible transition time when teens would have leftover Walkmens from the early-90's, or, more likely have a tape player in their car instead of a CD player.

 That said, this show's also got a Veronica Mars/noir element to it that I'm really digging. The kid playing Clay is doing an excellent job, although I'm really worried about his erratic bike riding all over town.

Well the book was written in 2007 and the writers and director want to stay true to the book for the most part. 

Edited April 2, 2017 by Nkiru

[Mama No Life]

I'm enjoying it.  

I can buy the "I wanted listening to this to be hard for you" cassette element.  It also makes his actions stand out to even the adults in his life who aren't listening to cassettes either.  I get that they put that in to make the 13 sides work, but I'm letting it slide.  Not the hardest thing I've had to accept for a show...

[bettername2come]

Yeah, I think Clay not being able to marathon the tapes makes sense, and it got me on a meta level since, there's two types of people watching the show - those who speed through and those who have to watch slowly. I feel like each tape is about a day or two in terms of the storyline, but I'm not positive. There was something about what Clay said the foreign exchange program students happening yesterday, but that was the episode before last, right? I'm totally losing track of time as I watch.

[STFUFrank]

I think that Justin if there is a season 2 will show some growth. I think after seeing the avalanche of events and the guilt I think he felt for not only stopping Hannah's photo from going out but also not stopping Bryce from raping Jessica will change him and hopefully for the best. Like in a perfect world he'd become an advocate for survivors to atone for keeping quiet. I don't think that's the direction the show would go but I could see it. 

[iggysaurus]

I want to like this, but ... Nobody talks like these teenagers. I can't stand that oh so witty, self aware banter that these characters are constantly spouting. I'll try to stick with it but it might be hard to get past the precocious dialogue.

[mansonlamps]

I really disliked him on Parenthood, but like the job he's doing here.

[bettername2come]

I've liked the Clay actor since he was on Awake. It's nice to see him in something serious again, because the last thing I saw him on was the Goosebumps movie and this is several steps above. 

Edited April 3, 2017 by bettername2come

[truthaboutluv]

On 4/1/2017 at 6:27 PM, toogoodtobetrue said:

I wondered if the show was hinting that Tyler had actually shot Alex and made it seem like a suicide-- he seemed to have pictures of the "13" people in his darkroom and took down Alex's picture as if he had taken him off his hit list. 

That thought definitely crossed my mind, especially because we never saw Alex shoot himself. Granted, I know that was partly done to build the tension as viewers wondered who it was, but I can definitely see that being a possible direction they go in. That said,  I wouldn't be surprised if it was a suicide attempt because I definitely agree that Alex was showing signs of being suicidal throughout the episodes. In each episode he seemed more and more emotionally and even physically checked out. 

On 4/1/2017 at 7:46 PM, ban1o said:

I really disliked Jessica initially but by the end I just felt really sorry for her. Like for 90% of the show she was being manipulated and seemed confused and lost. And idk I guess I didn't really like how hannah put that on the tapes for 11 other people to hear. But Hannah did seem remorseful for what happened. 

Not that it makes it better, plus most of the people who listened to the tapes figured out who it was but Hannah made sure not to ever say Jessica's name when talking about what happened that night. She mentions Justin, but not Jessica. That being said, it may just be me, but I actually got the feeling that Jessica did know what happened and didn't really believe what Justin told her, so much as she wanted to believe it. But the second time they flashed back to the rape, Jessica was remembering it and I think it was clear that she woke up enough during the act to have some understanding of what was happening to her.

She probably tried to bury and deny it to herself and probably asked Justin the next day, who gave the story of them having sex. But when she heard Hannah's tapes, she couldn't keep lying to herself and maybe thinking she was just confused because she was so out of it, because Hannah was clearly there and saw the whole thing. 

Quote

I assumed the pictures at the end of his scene was his hit list. Alex was taken off because he stood up for Tyler. 

Honestly, this may be unpopular but I kind of hate Tyler as much as I hate Bryce. Yes, he's being bullied and is ignored and treated like crap by the popular kids as they do to many others. But these other people aren't stalkers. I never saw any damn remorse from Tyler for his behavior and instead, he tried to justify it when Clay confronted him, trying to throw in Clay's face how he always just stood on the sideline, silently in love with Hannah. That may be true but Clay wasn't stalking Hannah. Tyler was well aware how freaked out Hannah was when she heard him in the bushes.

His so called crap about people being their most honest when they don't know the camera is there means there is no way he missed the obvious fear on her face. And yet he kept doing it. And then he spitefully publicly released the picture when Hannah laughed incredulously at his invite to hang out because of course she did. The girl just found out he'd been creepily stalking her and that's when he wants to ask her to hang out. But of course he makes it seem like he's so the wronged and mistreated party. I also didn't miss the slight smirk and pleasure he took at mentioning Clay was the one who had the tapes, knowing Clay's mom was the lawyer for the school and in the room. 

One of my favorite scenes in a movie is from The Social Network, when the woman says to Mark that he'll go through his whole life convinced that people don't like him because he's a geek or a nerd and in fact, the truth is people didn't like him because he was an asshole. In other words, even the bullied can be bullies themselves and be assholes. And in my opinion, that was Tyler - a creepy, asshole little shit. 

Quote

Really the only characters I personally outright disliked were Courtney, Marcus and obviously Bryce. 

I feel like I almost hated Courtney and Marcus more than Bryce, just because Bryce, as bad as this sounds, is such an unfortunate stereotype. He is every rich privileged jock who's been made to believe that they're a God in high school and that means taking whatever they want whenever, including girls because well what girl doesn't want them.

So if she says no, she doesn't actually mean it. He was every sexually aggressive predatory bully in sadly every teenage/high school story. People know the Bryce's, they're usually just too afraid and intimidated to stand up to them. Courtney and Marcus though are the sociopaths that most never see coming and never know about. The "perfect" high school students with their perfect grades, perfect manners and who everyone likes. And instead they're awful human beings who lack any kind of empathy for anyone. 

Quote

Ryan was just kind of there for me the entire season. 

His lack of screen time is the only thing that saved him in my opinion, because I put him as low as Marcus and Courtney and found his judgments of Courtney to be pretty rich. This is a guy who preyed on an obviously very vulnerable Hannah for his stupid little school magazine and felt zero remorse for it. The girl was already basically being treated like shit around the high school and he knew it and didn't give a shit. And like many of the others, he felt little remorse after the tapes and only just cared about protecting his ass. 

Quote

Sheri's probably the only truly likable person in that entire non-Clay group, but she was never really part of the group in the first place. 

I like Sheri and I liked that she was never part of the group stuff regarding the tapes and in the end basically said screw it and called the police to admit what she did. And honestly, I can't say her leaving the scene of the accident was something most people would not do, especially because she didn't hit anyone. It's awful that the accident happened right after that and likely was because the stop sign was down but I just never thought she was a bad person. Also, I liked her and Clay's chemistry and enjoyed them far more than the coffee house girl. I hate to sound harsh but Clay and his angst is enough, I don't want to watch him with a girl who is even angstier than he is. 

I have to say that one of the saddest parts of the series for me, was the realization of Jeff's death, which I didn't put together until I realized a student died in the accident that happened after Sherri accidentally hit the stop sign. As soon as I saw the scene of Clay at school and Hannah walking up to him emotional, I knew and that made me really sad because I really liked Jeff and especially his friendship with Clay. I thought he seemed to genuinely like and care about Clay and was just a seemingly nice guy.

I did have a few moments of wondering where he was in the present day, but just figured he had nothing to do with Hannah's suicide so that's why he only appeared in the flashbacks. However I should have realized that didn't make sense considering how invested he was in getting Clay to go after Hannah. No way he wouldn't be there a bit more for Clay after Hannah killed herself.

Finally, I have to head to the Book thread because I feel like there were a number of things in the series that weren't in the book. Because I read the book years ago and a rarity for me, I didn't remember much about it after, other than Hannah left tapes and there were these 13 reasons why she killed herself. I know she ended up liking Clay and his tape turned out to be different than the others but I didn't really remember anything more than that, other than when I was done, feeling like I actually didn't get why she killed herself.

Like not to minimize someone's pain but that the things she mentioned just didn't seem that big and I can't imagine I would have thought that if she'd been raped. I feel like I remembered reading the book and coming away thinking that her main reason for killing herself seemed to be that she felt like most of the people on the list didn't care enough or see her enough. So it's possible that I just completely blanked out on the story and don't remember the book very well at all or the series added some major things that weren't in the book. 

Edited April 3, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[QQQQ]

Who did he play on Parenthood? Though I didn't recognize Alex right away from Parenthood.

[Ikki]

I was wondering if it makes it better or worse that the first two people to get the tapes (Justin and Jessica) were the two who knew about Jessica's rape already. On the one hand, at least Jessica was aware of what was on the tapes before others found out. At the same time, there was this threat of her having to pass them on herself or face having it exposed to anyone. 

[Lady Calypso]

5 minutes ago, Ikki said:

I was wondering if it makes it better or worse that the first two people to get the tapes (Justin and Jessica) were the two who knew about Jessica's rape already. On the one hand, at least Jessica was aware of what was on the tapes before others found out. At the same time, there was this threat of her having to pass them on herself or face having it exposed to anyone. 

Well, did Jessica actually know about her rape? Subconsciously, maybe. But I do think that she was mostly in the dark so hearing the second Justin tape just had her assume that Hannah was lying, probably with Justin convincing her it was a lie. So her passing it on wasn't about her letting people know about her rape, because she didn't seem to want to even believe it and she probably buried the memory deep within her mind until Clay got the tapes and started actively questioning them. So, for me, it makes it worse because Jessica wasn't consciously aware of her rape when she passed along the tapes, AND Justin knew about what Hannah was talking about and chose to let her pass them along. However, we do see that it does affect him deeply so at least he didn't get off scot free with the tapes. 

23 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

I have to say that one of the saddest parts of the series for me, was the realization of Jeff's death, which I didn't put together until I realized a student died in the accident that happened after Sherri accidentally hit the stop sign. As soon as I saw the scene of Clay at school and Hannah walking up to him emotional, I knew and that made me really sad because I really liked Jeff and especially his friendship with Clay. I thought he seemed to genuinely like and care about Clay and was just a seemingly nice guy.

I didn't put it together until the hallway scene with Clay/Hannah and her mentioning Jeff's name. That's when the shock hit me when I realized that Jeff was missing in the present day timeline and I had no idea. I remember in one of the previous episodes, it was mentioned that two students had died in the span of a few weeks, but I didn't put two and two together until much later. It's kind of sad that his death kind of got swept under the rug due to shock value. Actually, now I want to go back to earlier episodes and look at any hints. 

26 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

His lack of screen time is the only thing that saved him in my opinion, because I put him as low as Marcus and Courtney and found his judgments of Courtney to be pretty rich. This is a guy who preyed on an obviously very vulnerable Hannah for his stupid little school magazine and felt zero remorse for it. The girl was already basically being treated like shit around the high school and he knew it and didn't give a shit. And like many of the others, he felt little remorse after the tapes and only just cared about protecting his ass. 

Oh yeah. In terms of likability or sympathy, it probably goes Sheri>Alex>Zach>Jessica>Justin>Ryan>Tyler>Marcus>Courtney.  At least that's my list. I do rank Tyler above Courtney/Marcus because, despite his attitude and how he had no clue what he was doing to hurt people (but Marcus, Courtney, and Ryan were all pretty much the same in terms of empathy), he was still being bullied by people, he got humiliated the worst from Clay (rightfully so, don't get me wrong, but others needed just as much humiliation but Tyler seemed to be the only true target because of whatever Clay's mindset was during his tape), and it's easy to see him as an example of someone who's being bullied and makes the wrong choice in his actions to stand up to them. While Hannah caused harm to herself, Tyler is going to cause harm to others. However, that doesn't mean that I like Tyler. I may be on your side about hating him as much as Bryce. I think my list pertains to pure sympathy factor, rather than likability.

I don't know; I felt a little more annoyance toward Marcus and Courtney. They were the ones most proactive in trying to provoke Clay into submission and Courtney was defending a rapist, for crying out loud. Courtney was the first to approach Clay as soon as they realized he had the tapes. She was the one to pretend like they were best friends, even though I don't think they've ever hung out together. Marcus just provoked everyone and everything, and was a genuine ass who showed no remorse. Even in this finale, when he's talking to the lawyer, he partly owns up to his actions but not really. That's why I do think Marcus may gain sympathy points faster than Courtney. 

[bettername2come]

Poor Clay, taking on the guilt for everything that happened the night of Jessica's party and Hannah's death. He couldn't have known better. He listened to her. I hate that Tony put that guilt on him beforehand, even if he is trying to help him get through the tapes. Glad Justin finally told Jessica the truth. Also glad she hit him. Can't believe Bryce fucking texted her. 

[Lady Calypso]

You know, it's really sad that I didn't piece together Jeff's fate until they had to spell it out this episode. I did figure it out before the actual reveal, but I didn't realize that Jeff was purposefully missing from the present day timeline. They did a good twist with the cover up behind Hannah's suicide, but I did like Jeff and feel bad that I didn't realize that he died. He was a really good guy, probably the best guy out of them all, so of course, TV rules have him die. I can't remember if he was in the book or if he had the same fate. I haven't read the book in quite a few years so I'll have to go back. 

Ultimately, I don't think the accident is Sheri's fault. Ultimately, it could have had an impact but I understand why Sheri thought that it wouldn't be a big deal to call it in right that second (I guess, though, she might never have called it in, which is where her guilt comes into play). I can understand why she feels guilty, though, and why she has been trying to make amends. I think it's honorable that she tried to change her life and make amends, even before the tapes. I can't blame her for being scared to come forward. It was a wrong choice maybe, but she's a scared teenager. I might have done the exact same thing in her situation and I know now that it's not a bad thing to admit that.

[Lady Calypso]

34 minutes ago, QQQQ said:

Who did he play on Parenthood? Though I didn't recognize Alex right away from Parenthood.

He played Drew, the teenage son of the eldest adult daughter Sarah. I actually liked him on that show because he shared a lot of my own traits of being introverted and awkward. I think he's done a fine job on this show so far. It's very interesting to see the contrast between Justin/Jessica's reactions to the tapes and Alex's reaction. 

[Lady Calypso]

I remember from the novel that Clay's tape is not last, although I believe his tape came much earlier than number 11 (I could be remembering wrong, though), but I think it makes sense as to why Hannah included Clay in the tapes without having him at fault. I also remember that book Clay felt relief after hearing his tape; I think I love this Clay's reaction more. The fact that Hannah's absolving him from guilt, but he feels like it's his fault anyway. He's been breaking down all season bit by bit, and having this as his reaction makes total sense. It also doesn't help that Tony said yes to his question about killing Hannah, but whatever. I do think Tony was trying to get the point across that they were all responsible and that they all killed Hannah in a way. 

I think they've been showing Tony's own guilt and own loss in a more subtle way. I'm not quite sure it's been working, but they've been attempting. 

As for Bryce, the fact that he's acting like everything's cool is pretty horrific. I can't imagine that he's forgotten about raping Jessica. I'm actually surprised that Justin's managed to stay somewhat cool around Bryce. I do buy that Justin loves her and that he's horrified by his own bystander actions that led to Jessica's rape, but him not punching out Bryce the day after or something? And Justin choosing to protect not Jessica but Bryce? That's all I can see right now, is Justin protecting Bryce. 

[bettername2come]

I think there's a mixup upthread. Clay wasn't on Parenthood just Alex.

Edited April 3, 2017 by bettername2come

[QQQQ]

Ok, I think I see the confusion. My initial comments above were about the actor portraying Clay. Miles Heizer portrayed Alex/Drew.

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, bettername2come said:

According to imdb, this guy played Drew http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1851028/?ref_=tt_cl_t10

Yep, and he also plays Alex here. I think it's hard to tell at first because of the different hair colour. I almost didn't recognize him either.

Ah, I understand the confusion. I guess the confusion is with Clay/Alex. Ooops! 

[Anela]

7 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

Crickets  on this forum!  Wow.  I am getting a slight Veronica Mars vibe from the style of the production but without Veronica's humor.  

The guy playing Clay is perfect.  Nerdy, awkward,  tongue-tied.  

I love him in this. If I'd known him in high school, I would have liked him. 

[tennisgurl]

Interesting to see everyone's reactions to the tapes. I really like the guy playing Clay. I've seen him in a few things before, and I'm glad to see more of him here. Lots going on here. Really, I'm not sure WHO is heading towards a nervous breakdown quickest, but right now, my moneys on Alex.

Makes me wish I remembered more about how the book ended..but also not.

[STFUFrank]

I think Justin protecting Bryce was some sort of misplaced loyalty for all the times Bryces family helped him out because of his home life. It doesn't make it right but I could see the guilt he was feeling when talking to Jessica. He realized he made a huge mistake. I'd like to believe that as time goes on Justin will become a better person out of this. 

[Mama No Life]

OMG I'm already annoyed with Clay.  STOP asking everyone and just listen to the damn tapes okay?  Bruno Mars is not going to tell you the answers!

[Whimsy]

I kinda hated this reveal only because the first few episodes were so obviously just there to keep us in the dark.  But, in reality Justin would not have been just hanging out at Bryce's.  Yes, he was getting stoned out of his gourd, but just to be anywhere in Bryce's presence- I just find that completely unbelievable.  I do like seeing Justin's progressive breaking down, too, though.  It's not just Clay.  I still don't really like him as a person because he's very spineless, but at least they are showing that he feels SOMETHING.

[Whimsy]

9 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

You know, it's really sad that I didn't piece together Jeff's fate until they had to spell it out this episode. I did figure it out before the actual reveal, but I didn't realize that Jeff was purposefully missing from the present day timeline.

This was my exact reaction.  Glad I wasn't alone!

[DittyDotDot]

2 hours ago, TotalHellion said:

I think Justin protecting Bryce was some sort of misplaced loyalty for all the times Bryces family helped him out because of his home life. It doesn't make it right but I could see the guilt he was feeling when talking to Jessica. He realized he made a huge mistake. I'd like to believe that as time goes on Justin will become a better person out of this. 

I think Justin wasn't protecting Bryce as much as he was protecting himself. He let Jessica down and I don't think he wanted Jessica to know that. I don't doubt that some of his misplaced loyalty played into it, but I think it was more he didn't want Jessica to see him that way.

[DittyDotDot]

21 hours ago, Empress1 said:

I doubt he gave it that much thought - he clearly didn't care if people recognized it, otherwise he wouldn't have done it in the first place.

I don't think Ryan understood why she wouldn't want it published. Most writers write for the purpose of having others read their work, to Ryan he really thought it was a good poem and was giving her a chance to show how great it was to the world. I really don't think he had any malice in what he was doing, but at this point, a lot of Hannah's hurts are misunderstandings. She's assuming everyone's intentions were not pure at this point. I kinda took this episode to be where Hannah starts not being able to see other people's POV anymore. It's where she really starts to become isolated and alone.

[DittyDotDot]

I kept wondering why we hadn't seen Jeff in the present, too, but also didn't put it together until this episode. Once I realized where this was going, I did a big old "DUH!" because I remembered someone saying the school had lost two students in a short period of time earlier.

TBH, I kinda got hung up on Tony for a few episodes that totally distracted me. I just couldn't figure out if he was a student or what for a bit. Almost all the actors are too old to be playing teenagers--typical TV, though--but Tony really stuck out to me as not being in high school somehow, the way he talked coupled with his love for antiquity seemed more like he was a teacher or counselor. I think it wasn't until episode 7 or 8 I realized he was supposed to be in high school too. Although, looking back I realized Clay was using the pretense of doing a project with Tony, so I should've realized it sooner.

Anyway, I also don't think the accident is Sheri's fault, but I can see how she could blame herself for it anyway. It's basically survivor's guilt, in a way. And, since Sheri felt like she did a horrible thing, I can understand why she wouldn't want others to know about it. 

[Lady Calypso]

5 minutes ago, DittyDotDot said:

TBH, I kinda got hung up on Tony for a few episodes that totally distracted me. I just couldn't figure out if he was a student or what for a bit. Almost all the actors are too old to be playing teenagers--typical TV, though--but Tony really stuck out to me as not being in high school somehow, the way he talked coupled with his love for antiquity seemed more like he was a teacher or counselor. I think it wasn't until episode 7 or 8 I realized he was supposed to be in high school too. Although, looking back I realized Clay was using the pretense of doing a project with Tony, so I should've realized it sooner.

Same. I have to admit that for a couple of episodes there, even when Clay was calling him Jeff, I was getting him confused with Tony for some odd reason. It's not that they even look that similar, so I don't know what my brain was doing. Yeah, most of them look too old to be in high school. Most look late college age, at least. I don't know how old Katherine Langford (Hannah) is, but she looks like she's nineteen or twenty, but I think she passes for a teen more than some of the others. I totally thought for many of the episodes that Tony was supposed to be a college freshman or something. He sounds, looks, and acts like he's out of high school (also, the actor was married over a decade ago so he's at least in his mid thirties, I'd imagine). Even with Clay using Tony as a project excuse, I still saw him as an older guy. 

Tony is definitely too wise for his age. They did clarify that he is seventeen in the last episode (whichever episode it was that he was telling the story of how he got entangled with Hannah's tapes), but he really doesn't look it.

[braziliangirl]

Clay and Hannah's scene was so beautiful. The chemistry, the song, the way he made sure she was ok with what they were doing. Minette and Langford really nailed their scenes. So sad.

[braziliangirl]

IMHO, Marcus is worst than Courtney. She did awful things but she was motivated by fear ( a powerful tool for making very stupid and awful things). She was scared and I felt from her a bit of remorse. He was just an asshole.

I think Ryan believed his arguments. I think he felt his magazine was extremely important and that he, as an artist, had to publish her work. Was he right? No.

Edited April 3, 2017 by braziliangirl

[Wizhuzhu]

Just finished the series, and I must say I was exhausted by the end of it. I really enjoyed the earlier episodes, but as it went on I became increasingly annoyed at the overall teen angst and bad decisions made by the characters. I know they are teenagers, and with a series revolving around them, that is what I should expect, but I thought some of them were quite unbelievably stupid and just serves as poor plot points to drag the story.

I'm with most of your regarding Bryce as the least likable character, but his ignorance towards his actions and complete lack of empathy were just too unrealistic for me. Perhaps it's because I've never met a person like him in real life. If I were to rank the teen characters from most likable and/or sympathetic to the least it would be:

Jeff>Hannah>Alex>Sheri>Tony>Clay>Jessica>Justin>Zack>Ryan>Tyler>Courtney>Marcus>Monty>Bryce.

Based on how the characters were portrayed in the show, Jeff was the nicest one. Hannah was mostly sympathetic, but in terms of likability alone, she'd rank lower for me, maybe between Clay and Jessica. Most of you had pointed out the issues regarding Alex, and Sheri really had that one stupid mistake on her plate. Clay is ranked lower because at times he annoyed me with his overall behaviour throughout the series, especially in scenes that involved his parents and/or Tony. I'm rather neutral towards Zack, Ryan and Tyler. Zack quite clearly was not a bad kid, and Ryan was quite harmless, relatively. Tyler seemed like he is turning into someone dangerous, so maybe he will be the main topic of Season 2 if there is one. He did come clean about Hannah's tapes, so at least there's that.

Not sure if I will be tuning in if there is a second season, though it is tempting to see what actions the Bakers will take next.

[ally862]

Man this is hard to watch.  At first Clay was really breaking my heart but I'm starting to get frustrated with him.  I'm also nervous about what his tape says.  Just speculating but I'll tag it just in case 

Spoiler

but I'm assuming that the thing Clay did is he stood by and watched everything happen to Hannah.  I'm so scared for him though that she's going to tell him that was the worst thing of all.  The only thing that's throwing me is that I think in the first episode, Justin told Clay he doesn't think he's blameless?  I don't, in confused and the whole thing is weighing heavily on me but I need to see what happens.

[tennisgurl]

Hannah really just has no luck at all. Even when she's trying to help, it just makes things worse. And she constantly blamed for crap that wasn't her fault. It seems like half this show is just blaming Hannah for their other problems.

I did get a chuckle out of the teacher and counselor walking into the boys bathroom, and their audio "Oh GOD" reaction when the door shut. Its nice to have one or two funny moments in between all the sadness.

I feel bad for Clay. It seems like he really doesn't have any friends at all, and everyone trying to befriend him is just using him to cover their asses, or to forward their own agenda (whatever that is).  

[stagmania]

19 hours ago, iggysaurus said:

I want to like this, but ... Nobody talks like these teenagers. I can't stand that oh so witty, self aware banter that these characters are constantly spouting. I'll try to stick with it but it might be hard to get past the precocious dialogue.

I actually thought they did a great job of showing us that not all of the teens can keep up with the witty banter-Hannah was too fast for Justin, she had to keep explaining what she meant! And yet she was so into him anyway. So real. 

I'm definitely intrigued by this first episode and getting a vibe that this is going somewhere very dark.

[Anela]

On 4/2/2017 at 2:00 PM, DittyDotDot said:

I just finished watching the series and I totally get why it took Clay so long to listen to them. I had to take breaks from the show myself. It's hard to watch knowing how it turns out. I can imagine it being very hard to listen to these tapes knowing there's nothing that can be done to save this girl at this point. It's very sad.

I get it, too. The tapes are going to all of the people she says are responsible for her death, so if I received the tapes, I wouldn't be able to avoid them forever, but I would put it off.

I had typed a lot more, but realized that I was spoiling episode 10 - luckily, before I posted it. 

[Anela]

First of all: WTF, Tony?! Do you want another teen suicide on your hands? I know he asked, but geez. I know Clay has wanted everyone else to take responsibility for their actions, but Hannah herself said they were ALL responsible. Not just one person. 

I'm going to have to go back, and watch again. I wasn't feeling well as I watched most of this, and had a fever, so I was wondering who Jeff was. I feel bad, even though he's a fictional character. I do remember them talking about the loss of two students, though. 

I was suicidal in high school, and dropped out with my mother's permission, because of the bullying that the teachers wouldn't do anything about (sometimes, they were a part of it). The head of year was also my PE teacher, didn't like me, and when I finally started to name names, in a meeting with her and mum, she said, "Those girls wouldn't do that." Yeah, okay. Mum stormed out of there with me, and told me I wasn't going back. We ended up moving over here, later that year (the U.S.), and I was home-schooled from then on - visiting a teacher once a week, in a school building next to a high school in town. Before we moved, a woman from the school board came to see my mother, and asked her some questions. When I checked the website for the school years ago, they had anti-bullying stuff on their site. Too late for me, but I hope they did actually help other students. 

They are too old to be playing high school students. Eight years ago, when I found the group for the school of mine on facebook, they had posted pictures of their glory days, and I got upset and angry - they had affected my entire life (unfortunately), and I was angry with myself for letting those little pipsqueaks affect me at all. 

Edited April 4, 2017 by Anela

[STFUFrank]

16 hours ago, Wizhuzhu said:

Just finished the series, and I must say I was exhausted by the end of it. I really enjoyed the earlier episodes, but as it went on I became increasingly annoyed at the overall teen angst and bad decisions made by the characters. I know they are teenagers, and with a series revolving around them, that is what I should expect, but I thought some of them were quite unbelievably stupid and just serves as poor plot points to drag the story.

I'm with most of your regarding Bryce as the least likable character, but his ignorance towards his actions and complete lack of empathy were just too unrealistic for me. Perhaps it's because I've never met a person like him in real life. If I were to rank the teen characters from most likable and/or sympathetic to the least it would be:

Jeff>Hannah>Alex>Sheri>Tony>Clay>Jessica>Justin>Zack>Ryan>Tyler>Courtney>Marcus>Monty>Bryce.

Based on how the characters were portrayed in the show, Jeff was the nicest one. Hannah was mostly sympathetic, but in terms of likability alone, she'd rank lower for me, maybe between Clay and Jessica. Most of you had pointed out the issues regarding Alex, and Sheri really had that one stupid mistake on her plate. Clay is ranked lower because at times he annoyed me with his overall behaviour throughout the series, especially in scenes that involved his parents and/or Tony. I'm rather neutral towards Zack, Ryan and Tyler. Zack quite clearly was not a bad kid, and Ryan was quite harmless, relatively. Tyler seemed like he is turning into someone dangerous, so maybe he will be the main topic of Season 2 if there is one. He did come clean about Hannah's tapes, so at least there's that.

Not sure if I will be tuning in if there is a second season, though it is tempting to see what actions the Bakers will take next.

Obviously I don't know Brock Turner (the Stanford Rapist) but I'd say given the fact that his dad was quoted as saying what his son did was just "20 minutes of action." I can only imagine that he was a real life Bryce if that's his dad's reaction to what his son did meaning he may not have seen what he did was wrong just like Bryce could've cared less about Jessica and Hannah. 

Edited April 4, 2017 by TotalHellion

[Jenniferbug]

I think it was during the dance episode that I realized Jeff was absent in the present day and was sort of like "huh, what's up with that?" But didn't expect that he was also dead until the start of this episode. 

I thought including a character like Jeff was a smart choice- here we have a jock, popular guy who genuinely seemed kind and wanted to be helpful and a friend to introverted wallflower Clay. I knew a few guys like this at my high school, and it was a good contrast to the Bryce/Justin group of jocks.

I feel like Jeff is the kind of person Zach would be, if he had the confidence to go against his peer group. I really liked Zach a lot by the end of the series. 

[Zima]

I just started this today. I am a sucker for a good teen drama, and I like the mystery in this too. I can see some of the characters getting on my nerves, but so far so good. I'm in!

[truthaboutluv]

There are plenty of Bryce in this world. Watch the documentary The Hunting Ground to see a closer look at rape/jock culture in schools. That one focused on colleges but it's just as bad in some high schools. There was a clip of a fraternity at Yale (yes, Yale - America's best and brightest everyone), where part of the initiation had the pledges go to a neighboring sorority house where they were chanting outside, "no means yes..."

So YMMV but I don't find Bryce's lack of empathy in any way unrealistic. I also don't think for one second he was ignorant about what he did to Jessica and Hannah. He knew exactly what he did but again he'd been raised by a family and fed by a school culture that made him believe he was entitled to anything he wanted, including any girl whenever he wanted, no matter what she said.

Edited April 4, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Wizhuzhu]

@TotalHellion, @truthaboutluv I do agree that while Bryce felt in some way unrealistic to me (rapist-jock culture to be exact; because they are teenagers and why would teenagers behave this way?), he is not to others. Could be cultural difference, could be because I've been living in a rather safe bubble. But I do see that this is indeed, unfortunately, an actual issue in real-life.

[ban1o]

On 4/2/2017 at 9:45 PM, truthaboutluv said:

 

I feel like I almost hated Courtney and Marcus more than Bryce, just because Bryce, as bad as this sounds, is such an unfortunate stereotype. He is every rich privileged jock who's been made to believe that they're a God in high school and that means taking whatever they want whenever, including girls because well what girl doesn't want them.

So if she says no, she doesn't actually mean it. He was every sexually aggressive predatory bully in sadly every teenage/high school story. People know the Bryce's, they're usually just too afraid and intimidated to stand up to them. Courtney and Marcus though are the sociopaths that most never see coming and never know about. The "perfect" high school students with their perfect grades, perfect manners and who everyone likes. And instead they're awful human beings who lack any kind of empathy for anyone. 

 

I definitely knew Courntey and Marcus types in high school. The over achiever, super involved gunner types who were focused about their reputation and future and such they had no empathy for others. And yeah your right those are the people they don’t usually tell you to be careful of.

 

On 4/2/2017 at 9:45 PM, truthaboutluv said:

 

Not that it makes it better, plus most of the people who listened to the tapes figured out who it was but Hannah made sure not to ever say Jessica's name when talking about what happened that night. She mentions Justin, but not Jessica. That being said, it may just be me, but I actually got the feeling that Jessica did know what happened and didn't really believe what Justin told her, so much as she wanted to believe it. But the second time they flashed back to the rape, Jessica was remembering it and I think it was clear that she woke up enough during the act to have some understanding of what was happening to her.

She probably tried to bury and deny it to herself and probably asked Justin the next day, who gave the story of them having sex. But when she heard Hannah's tapes, she couldn't keep lying to herself and maybe thinking she was just confused because she was so out of it, because Hannah was clearly there and saw the whole thing. 

 

Yeah the end of episode 9 shows Jessica definitely had memories of what happened. I think she was in deep denial and wasn't exactly sure if her memories were real. She seemed to really depend on Justin and since he kept on insisting it was a lie she wanted to believe that it was but you could see it was having an effect on her, such as the heavy drinking. I honestly felt bad for her because not only was she raped but she was betrayed by  someone she really trusted. 

I'm just glad she told her dad at the end, meaning he'll most likely do something about it. 

[ban1o]

On 4/2/2017 at 7:44 PM, TotalHellion said:

I think that Justin if there is a season 2 will show some growth. I think after seeing the avalanche of events and the guilt I think he felt for not only stopping Hannah's photo from going out but also not stopping Bryce from raping Jessica will change him and hopefully for the best. Like in a perfect world he'd become an advocate for survivors to atone for keeping quiet. I don't think that's the direction the show would go but I could see it. 

I would hope so. The guy was an asshole but I couldn't help but feel a little bad for him. I don't really think he was an inherently a bad person. It seemed his friendship with Bryce made him that way  and that he wasn't able to stand up to him but he felt indebted to the guy because he was always there for him throughout his shitty family situation. By the end you could really see that his world was falling apart. 

But ugh at him for not only letting his girlfriend get raped but lying about it for so long. SMH. And for letting Bryce spread that picture and not speaking up to defend Hannah. If there is a season 2 (which I'm not sure?) he better have changed. 

 

On the note of season 2. Would it really work without Hannah? She was the whole catalyst for the show what would season 2 focus on. Tyler's school shooting plans? I don't know if it would work, but they seemed to have changed the ending so much from the book it feels like they are pushing for a season 2. ( I haven't read the book just based on what people told me).  

Edited April 4, 2017 by ban1o

[truthaboutluv]

7 minutes ago, ban1o said:

I would hope so. The guy was an asshole but I couldn't help but feel a little bad for him. I don't really think he was an inherently a bad person. It seemed his friendship with Bryce made him that way but he felt indebted to the guy because he was always there for him throughout his shitty family situation. 

Yes but there was also his constant not so subtle suggestions to physically attack Clay. Now I get it, he was clearly an abused kid with a shitty mother who kept having even shittier boyfriends who clearly physically abused him. But it didn't make him any less of a little asshole and a violent one at that.

Honestly, I couldn't understand where Justin's seeming hatred and rage towards Clay, right from the start, came from. It was almost like he resented Clay for, in a sense, getting off easy on the tapes with Hannah basically saying that Clay really didn't belong on them because at the end of it all, he really was just a genuinely nice guy.

For some reason that seemed to just enrage Justin. His whole, "you're not that innocent" to Clay when Clay was looking at Hannah's locker before poor Clay even knew the tapes existed, complete with seething hatred was really over the top. Though Clay's, "do you even know my name", was kind of hilarious. 

Edited April 4, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[ban1o]

26 minutes ago, truthaboutluv said:

Yes but there was also his constant not so subtle suggestions to physically attack at Clay. Now I get it, he's clearly an abused kid with a shitty mother who keeps having even shittier boyfriends who clearly physically abuse him. But it didn't make him less of a little asshole. Honestly, I couldn't understand Justin's seeming hatred and rage towards Clay, right from the start. It's like he resented Clay for in a sense getting off easy on the tapes with Hannah basically saying that he really didn't belong there because at the end of it all, he really was a genuinely nice guy. For some reason that seemed to just enrage Justin. His whole, "you're not that innocent" to Clay when he was looking at Hannah's locker before poor Clay even knew the tapes existed, complete with seething hatred was really over the top. Though Clay's, "do you even know my name", was kind of hilarious. 

lol Justin's hatred and obsession of Clay was so weird. And yeah his suggestion to kill him was so OTT.  Was it supposed to be a joke because it was ridiculous.

I think at that point he was scared of people figuring out it was true because he was telling people it was lies. Also Clay's tapes right before Bryce's who they were all trying to protect. And Clay had the least defamatory tape so they were afraid when he got through the tapes he would report it or tell someone. 

I agree he is 100% an asshole Like I would rank him a little bit below Courtney and Marcus on an "asshole list"  but I still felt bad for him. 

Edited April 4, 2017 by ban1o