Season 1 Talk

[Miles]

On 16.4.2017 at 3:32 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

From a practical point of view, convicting Bryce of rape would be very difficult. There was no physical evidence from either rape because neither girl went to the police to have a rape kit done afterward. Hannah is dead so all Bryce has to say is that it's his word against hers. She can't refute anything he says. Jessica didn't want to admit she'd been raped and even if she did report it, she would have to admit that she was so drunk that she passed out and unfortunately, that would not work in her favor at trial. Keep in mind that I am NOT defending Marcus, Courtney, or any character who wanted to keep the tapes secret. I'm just saying from a logical and legal standpoint, a rape conviction would be VERY unlikely due to the lack of evidence so Marcus and Courtney don't want to ruin their perfect reputations for a crime that would go unpunished/unconvicted. It wasn't so much that they were actively trying to protect Bryce as that they were willing to stay silent in order to save themselves from being outed for what they'd done to Hannah (and being gay, in Courtney's case).

I mean it would be very difficult, but it wouldn't exactly be a he-said-she-said situation. You'd have Jessica's and Justin's testimony and Hannah's dying decleration, which is admissable in court.

 

On 20.6.2018 at 4:17 AM, 1775rik said:

However, as I understand it, Hannah picked up her check from the Crestmont about three weeks after Jessica's party.  During that encounter, Clay was very cold towards her, treating her, at best, as a casual business associate.  Both actors were very good in the scene--Clay's indifference and Hannah's wish to engage him and disappointment when he gave her nothing back were both very clear.  Go back and look at how fast she spun around when he called her back.  It had to be crushing for her discover he only wanted to tell her to return her uniform.

I don't think he was cold. I think he reverted back to his usual scared/cautious self. He thought he had somehow done something wrong that night and then he also lost his best friend. He was clearly hurting himself and didn't understand. Three weeks isn't a long time.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Miles

[Jax7917]

8 hours ago, Miles said:

The story between Hannah and Clay is really tragic. I wish Hannah would have used her words when she was alive and not only after. I actually said "use your words" out loud a feww times. That would have solved most problems here. Clay would have understood. If it was too hard for her to tell him in person, she could have sent him a tape (or an MP3).

So the last two tapes are Bryce and Mr. Potter. Yeah, no giant surprise there, but good having it confirmed.

 

Well that's just wrong. Depressions can be and often are situational. Just because brain chemestry can be the cause doesn't mean it always is. Hannah's depression seemed to be caused by her situation. We saw her happy at the beginning (and kinda smug) and then a bunch of bad shit happened to her which made her depressed.

 

I'd like Clay to get together with Tony. I think those two are cute together. I know Clay isn't gay, but maybe a little bi?

But I know that will never happen, so whatever.

And if clay and her had broken up .. she’d be depressed again . Not saying situations don’t bring on depression , I know they do . But she obviously couldn’t handle her feelings and chose to make the decision to end her life . That is not something everyone does . so no I don’t believe he would have fixed her life long term .. I think unless she got proper help , it would have happened at one time or another . 

[MarylandGirl]

On 4/16/2017 at 5:15 PM, The Mighty Peanut said:

I didn't think the suicide looked glamorous. I thought it looked like someone who googled how to commit suicide right the first time. Cut vertical. Do it in the bath to eliminate mess. Use warm water to encourage the flow of blood. Wear clothing if being discovered nude is a concern to you. 

It hurt. There was SO much blood. She died terrified and alone, IMO regretting her decision once it was too late to change it. For anyone who thinks it's a brief moment of pain followed by immediate blissful sleep...no. 

I agree that it didn't look glamorous. And also that she was trying to "do it right" vs. doing something as a cry for help.

Trigger warning: When I attempted in college (over 20 years ago) in a similar manner, I was surprised by how much it hurt. I'm not sure why I thought it wouldn't? Maybe at that point I was sort of numb. And I didn't make tapes, but I did mail letters to people. They were more apologies than accusatory. Of course, then I was stuck with the awkward position of having to call people and tell them not to read them (I know at least one friend read his anyway, as he told me--I suspect I wouldn't have been able to resist the temptation, in his position, either).

[MarylandGirl]

On 4/15/2017 at 8:58 AM, Paloma said:

One thing that seemed unrealistic to me was how Hannah kept up her appearance--nice outfits, perfect makeup, clean and styled hair (despite having been cut, the style was still kind of chic)--right up until the end. Based on both personal experience and what I've read as an editor of psychiatric texts, a common symptom in people who are clinically depressed and/or suicidal is loss of interest in hygiene and personal appearance. This was especially noticeable in comparison with Jessica, whose appearance and dress deteriorated as she spiraled (though this may have been more attributable to the abuse of alcohol and drugs). Hannah's continuing good looks may be one reason why some critics of the series (like the Post article I linked above) worry that it may cause other teens to copy her actions.

I actually saw this as fairly realistic, and it's why people can miss depression and suicidal thoughts in people they're close to. It's a keeping up appearances thing. I was terribly depressed senior year of high school, and an acquaintance made this comment to me about how I'm always smiling (she didn't know about the depression). And I got a 4.0 GPA first semester of freshman year of college (20-some years ago), when I attempted suicide. People can cover up depression pretty well if they want to. Sort of a "Tracks of my Tears" effect, smiling, trying to hide the sadness.

So I think it could be helpful in the show in the sense of, it's not just the ones wearing all black and listening to Joy Division (OK I listened to them) and crying in the corner that you have to worry about. I think a big point of the show was how people missed what was going on with Hannah. Sure, some of that was potentially on her for not really reaching out and confiding in them (though she got burned a few times when she tried to be open, so it made sense that she withdrew). But I think a message could be to check in with people you care about, make sure they're OK, even if they seem fine on the outside. (Ugh, I sound a bit like a PSA there...)

[Paloma]

1 minute ago, MarylandGirl said:

On 4/15/2017 at 8:58 AM, Paloma said:

One thing that seemed unrealistic to me was how Hannah kept up her appearance--nice outfits, perfect makeup, clean and styled hair (despite having been cut, the style was still kind of chic)--right up until the end. Based on both personal experience and what I've read as an editor of psychiatric texts, a common symptom in people who are clinically depressed and/or suicidal is loss of interest in hygiene and personal appearance. This was especially noticeable in comparison with Jessica, whose appearance and dress deteriorated as she spiraled (though this may have been more attributable to the abuse of alcohol and drugs). Hannah's continuing good looks may be one reason why some critics of the series (like the Post article I linked above) worry that it may cause other teens to copy her actions.

I actually saw this as fairly realistic, and it's why people can miss depression and suicidal thoughts in people they're close to. It's a keeping up appearances thing. I was terribly depressed senior year of high school, and an acquaintance made this comment to me about how I'm always smiling (she didn't know about the depression). And I got a 4.0 GPA first semester of freshman year of college (20-some years ago), when I attempted suicide. People can cover up depression pretty well if they want to. Sort of a "Tracks of my Tears" effect, smiling, trying to hide the sadness.

So I think it could be helpful in the show in the sense of, it's not just the ones wearing all black and listening to Joy Division (OK I listened to them) and crying in the corner that you have to worry about. I think a big point of the show was how people missed what was going on with Hannah. Sure, some of that was potentially on her for not really reaching out and confiding in them (though she got burned a few times when she tried to be open, so it made sense that she withdrew). But I think a message could be to check in with people you care about, make sure they're OK, even if they seem fine on the outside. (Ugh, I sound a bit like a PSA there...)

You're right, keeping up appearances and/or "happy face" can be a good way to hide what's really going on inside. And I should know better, because I have struggled with depression for decades (going back to high school or earlier), though I have never attempted suicide. There have certainly been many times when I let my appearance go (not that I have ever been someone who is fashionable and nicely styled). But whenever I have been in social situations I have been outwardly "happy," friendly and smiling a lot, even when I am miserable inside. And yet, despite knowing this about myself, I failed to recognize my daughter's unhappiness in high school because she had so many friends and social activities. 

So I think it's worth emphasizing that we need to check on the people who seem fine outwardly, not just the ones who fit the stereotype or DSM symptoms of depression. Sometimes PSAs are valuable!