S05.E06: Marion

[Mick Lady]

Bates Motel Marion

Norman checks in a special guest at the motel. Dylan grapples with devastating news. Sam and Madeleine face a crossroads in their marriage.

[peacheslatour]

Oh boy, I wonder if they'll eat in the parlor? Because the office is just too "officious".

[Mick Lady]

I see what you did there!

I'm a little bit concerned about how early Marion is checking into Bate's Motel. There are five episodes left, right? That's a lot of time to lead up to Psycho, if they end the series with the start of the movie. Could they be retelling the first half of Psycho, or all of it? 

Wrong thread probably, but I'd like to know what you think Peach.

[Spartan Girl]

The moment we've all been waiting for, and this show manages to do it in a way we don't expect. Instead of Marion, Sam is the one that dies in the shower! What a twist!

So many homages to the original movie: the stuffed owls, the sandwich, the talk about "traps". I was so sure Marion was about to get it in the shower; that scene was almost exactly done in the buildup to the original murder...only to have it be a fake out. The writers must have been laughing when they wrote that scene.

I like that Norman is now aware of the trap in his own mind. It makes the Mother relationship so much more interesting. Freddie really sold that scene when Marion put her head on his shoulder and he panicked. For a moment, it was the old Norman, the one that was willing to kill himself before risking killing another person.

And then Sam came to the motel.

It would have been enough getting his comeuppance with Marion smashing his car and Madeline kicking him out. But while he might not have deserved to die, he was still a scumbag. So I'm not going to waste any sympathy on him.

Four more episodes!

[Lamima]

Wow, didn't expect that twist. Loved it!

[Chaos Theory]

Well damn!

That  got a little twisty but in a good way.  Interesting that Marion drove away unharmed but it was Sam Loomis that got shower murdered.  

I really enjoyed the multiple fights Norman had with Mother.   They were incredibly well done.  How real was Mother.    Really good scenes.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[CynicalGirl]

Holy crap!!

[Ms Lark]

Awesome!! Although, I really did want the classic "reet reet reet" during the stabbity part. Poor Norman.

[thuganomics85]

Honestly did not see that coming.  Instead of playing out like the film, Marion Crane gets away with the money, while it's dickbag Sam Loomis, that meets a fatal in while showering.  That's what you get for using the hotel's services without paying, Sam!  And I got a kick out of Madeline inadvertently setting up his downfall, by tossing coffee on him, and that's why he decided to shower.  Hee!

I thought Rihanna was slightly better this go around, although I still thought Freddie Highmore pretty much carried the majority of their scenes.  Even during her speeches, I was more interested in seeing how Norman/Freddie reacted to her, then what she was actually saying. Again, I know what they were trying to do: have a well-known face playing Marion again and Rihanna apparently is a huge fan of the show, but part of me still wonders how a more experienced actress would have fared instead.  Oh, well.  She was only in two episodes and still served her purpose, only in a way I didn't expect.

As usual though, the highlights were Norman and Norma, especially the big blowout in the kitchen scene.  I love how the dynamic has changed with Norman knowing Norma is all in his head, but being unable to resist her still.  Even with this knowledge, she just knows how to push his buttons and how to get him to do what she wants.  Still, I'm guessing his final line meant that he actually was conscious when he killed Sam, so it's going to be interesting to see how he reacts after his "first kill" more or less.

Oh, boy!  That phone conversation between Norman and Dylan was brutal.  I feel for Dylan and can understand why he wants to find out the truth, but as usual, a part of me just wants him and Emma to never, ever go to White Pines Bay again, because I fear for their safety.

It was mentioned before, but gold star to Isabelle McNally, because during the scene when Madeline was yelling at Sam, she really does eerily come off like a younger Norma.  I can totally see why Norman is obsessed with her.  

Noticed Romero was missing again.  I wonder when he will factor back in.

The previews for next week were cracking me up.  It's like Norman has suddenly found himself as a villain in an episode of Fargo (or any Coen Brother movie.)

[Mick Lady]

26 minutes ago, CynicalGirl said:

Holy crap!!

My reaction exactly!

BTW, I love Daria!

[FlickerToAFlame]

That camera angle where Norma was saying how she and Norman were two halves of the same person, and you could see half of each of their faces at a 90 degree angle to each other was awesome. 

[Cotypubby]

That was great! Everyone watching this show expected Marion to be killed in the shower, so what's the best way to make the outcome still be a surprise, the way it was in the original? Don't kill her, and have Sam stabbed in the shower instead! Brilliant! 

[DiabLOL]

That was amazing! Great twist great writing great performances from all!

Ps I don't  know what I'm gonna do if I don't find info on that blue velour hooded coat Rihanna was wearing!

[giovannif7]

That twist was the first big misstep in the series, IMHO. I'm having trouble articulating why the switch in shower victims didn't work for me. The closest I can get is that I've always thought that Norman's killings (in the original film) were reactive, based on either inner turmoil between the Mother personality and the Norman personality, or straight up fear. This episode's murder of Sam Loomis was an act of anger and retribution, and appeared to be a result of Norman agreeing with Mother that Loomis deserved to die. Loomis was no threat to Norman, and lust was not an issue. Add in the lack of a wig and dress during the murder, and Norman's altered line "Oh Mother, what have I done..." - and it's clear that Series Norman's version of mental illness makes him far more proactively aggressive than Film Norman was.

I was also disappointed at the lack of shrieking violins during the murder, as well as the missing crossfade from the shot of water circling the shower drain to the closeup of the victim's eye. Such classic sound and imagery!

[Bec]

I guess they didn't want to straight-up copy Psycho, because that would be too predictable and lazy. I applaud it, and yet I feel kind of conflicted because killing off Sam Loomis is a really big departure. Not just the different victim, but the killer's motivation has changed by a lot as well.

It was satisfying as hell to see Sam get killed, though. I'll give them that. I was like "WTF, why is he taking a shower?" Took me a moment "Oh right, his wife tossed coffee all over him."

LOLed at "some people are mad and they manage to be head of state, I can manage one little motel."

[mwell345]

What an intense episode!   If Highmore doesn't get an Emmy nomination.....He's amazing - you can actually see in his face how he is fighting the insanity and you can see when he gives in to it - without him even saying a word. 

I understand the build up with Marion and that she's integral to the plot - I also  thought for sure she was going to be his victim - but damn, Rihanna was awful and from that perspective, there was way too much of her.

Only 4 episodes left? Where's Romero, where's Chick?  And what's going to happen with Dylan? Sam's wife? I have no idea where the writers are taking this and I love it.

[RedMal]

Oh wow. I was pretty disappointed with last weeks episode, when it focused way too much with Marion and remaking Psycho. But this one made me once again remember why I love this show so fucking much.

I was waiting for Marion to be killed but during her shower scene, I didn't feel anything. No tension what so ever, so I was real glad it turned out different. The final scene, with Mother manipulating Norman and then Sam getting killed. Holy shit, that was amazing, pure perfection. I really don't see how this show isn't more popular, it might be my all time favorite drama series. When they first announced it, I was really skeptical, and only watched the pilot because Psycho is one of my favorite movies of all time. But I would've never guessed how much I'm gonna love it.

I'm really happy they didn't take the most obvious and laziest route with Marion, but the outcome is still the same. She, and this episode overall, was the ultimate point, which sets up the final act. I'm pretty certain that next week we will see Romero and Dylan return to White Pine Bay. The end is very near.

[BooBear]

4 hours ago, giovannif7 said:

That twist was the first big misstep in the series, IMHO.

I agree. Well I am of two minds:

On the one hand: Not taking out Marion was a big betrayal to something most people have been waiting for from the start. It is *THE* moment that makes people  turn in and something we have been looking forward to for 4 years. Not to mention that part of the drama and horror is that an innocent woman dies because Norman is so bad off.  Who cares if bad guy Sam Loomis buys it?  He deserves it. 

On the other hand this result was more consistent with THIS show's Norman. It does make more sense that THIS Norman is more protective of women I could see things going down this way.  Though of course he has killed women.  Sam Loomis' disappearance is likely to cause more interest in Norman than some total stranger that no one really knows is there.  

When Marion managed to leave via Norman's pushing her out of the motel.. what I thought was going to happen was that this was all in Norman's head and it would have been revealed at the end of the episode that Norman killed her during the shower and was just mentally trying to save her after the fact. I really thought from the shower on was going to turn out to be in Norman's mind. 

I really hope Dylan is ok. I did tear up at his reaction to his mother's death.  And I liked that it was explained that Norman mislead them a bit so they wouldn't come back. 

[Chaos Theory]

This has never really been a remake of Psycho in the classic sense of the word.  Norman is a much different man then he was in the movie.  His motivations have always been different.  Even going way back to the first season.  Ironically his first murder was his father even though I am not sure he is even now aware of it.

i think in a weird way Norman is more protective of women then scared and hateful of them.  Women he thinks shared traits of Norma need to be protected against men like his father and Sam.  

Edited March 28, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[lunaseas1122]

They flipped the script! I didn't see that coming, so kudos for going a new way and surprising us all. That said, I felt no tension during the Rhianna shower scene, cuz I had seen the previews showing her smashing up Sam's car, and that hadn't happened yet, so I knew she wasn't about to get sliced and diced. I wish I hadn't, I'd have liked to be truly shocked.  And THAT said, the Sam-in-the-shower scene was really nicely done. I felt bad for the adulterous lying cheating asshole.

I read that the showrunners had this in mind for a long time, and made the very conscious decision to not go with Norman dressed as Norma for the murder because they didn't want to give the impression of transphobia. Have we actually seen him commit any murders in Norma drag? I guess not.

Rhianna was a little better last nite, especially while bashing up Sam's car, she really sold that. But she's just not an actor.

Dylan and Emma continue to break my heart and make me fear for their lives.

[Rustybones]

Ho.Lee.Shit.  I can't bear to think this show will end.

I was leery when Marion stepped out of the shower and no one was there but didn't really expect it would happen that way.  But, I have to say when Norman and Norma were arguing about Marion and the fact that she wanted to have sex with him, they heard the car drive up and Norma said "She's back."  Then we saw Sam and the thought crossed my mind he would be killed instead of Marion.

If Freddie does not win an Emmy there's something rotten going on.  In fact I hope "someone's" been watching and he wins the starring role in a blockbuster movie.  Kudos to you, Freddie.

[bc1795]

Quote

That twist was the first big misstep in the series

That would be Rhianna.

[Ohwell]

Very disappointed that they didn't follow the movie, and killed Sam instead of Marion.  If they're going that route, then Romero should kill Norman in the end.  

[pfk505]

Freddy Highmore is absolutely ON FIRE this season.. just give him all the awards and be done with it.

[Peanut6711]

Well I called that in the last episode's thread--in the original viewers assumed Marion would live since she was the star; in this one viewers assumed she's die. The ultimate twist is spinning expectations in a Hitch approach.  And I gotta say, after seeing it play out and thinking about it, I kinda like it from a modern, feminist point of view. Women are so often portrayed as the victims in fiction so it was nice to see Marion escape, ditch her cheating boyfriend, and speed off, tossing her phone out the window.  I liked the image and the message.   It was interesting that Norman was the catalyst to empower her. He saved her in a sense (from himself) while at the same time sinking deeper into his violent psychosis by killing Sam as himself. I will admit I thought Norman not dressed as mother in the shower scene didn't pack the visual punch although the focus on Sam's eyes (like Marion in the film) had an extra creepy "horror" feel. 

[smorbie]

10 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Honestly did not see that coming.  Instead of playing out like the film, Marion Crane gets away with the money, while it's dickbag Sam Loomis, that meets a fatal in while showering.  That's what you get for using the hotel's services without paying, Sam!  And I got a kick out of Madeline inadvertently setting up his downfall, by tossing coffee on him, and that's why he decided to shower.  Hee!

I thought Rihanna was slightly better this go around, although I still thought Freddie Highmore pretty much carried the majority of their scenes.  Even during her speeches, I was more interested in seeing how Norman/Freddie reacted to her, then what she was actually saying. Again, I know what they were trying to do: have a well-known face playing Marion again and Rihanna apparently is a huge fan of the show, but part of me still wonders how a more experienced actress would have fared instead.  Oh, well.  She was only in two episodes and still served her purpose, only in a way I didn't expect.

As usual though, the highlights were Norman and Norma, especially the big blowout in the kitchen scene.  I love how the dynamic has changed with Norman knowing Norma is all in his head, but being unable to resist her still.  Even with this knowledge, she just knows how to push his buttons and how to get him to do what she wants.  Still, I'm guessing his final line meant that he actually was conscious when he killed Sam, so it's going to be interesting to see how he reacts after his "first kill" more or less.

Oh, boy!  That phone conversation between Norman and Dylan was brutal.  I feel for Dylan and can understand why he wants to find out the truth, but as usual, a part of me just wants him and Emma to never, ever go to White Pines Bay again, because I fear for their safety.

It was mentioned before, but gold star to Isabelle McNally, because during the scene when Madeline was yelling at Sam, she really does eerily come off like a younger Norma.  I can totally see why Norman is obsessed with her.  

Noticed Romero was missing again.  I wonder when he will factor back in.

The previews for next week were cracking me up.  It's like Norman has suddenly found himself as a villain in an episode of Fargo (or any Coen Brother movie.)

It was a very interesting twist, just all the way round.  Sam Loomis (who's died twice this year) who got stabbified instead of Marian.  The idea that Norman was in control during the murder opens up a whole new can of worms, doesn't it?  He can't plead guilty but insane, because he knew what he was doing.  Unless, of course, he pretends it was mother.  He is quite manipulative these days.  The scene between him and Dylan was heartbreaking.  Poor Dylan.  Cut off from the family even in his mother's death.

But, I'm going to disagree about Rhianna.  I thought her performance was much more ragged this time.  Freddie carried her during all their scenes.  And she did what she does best.  She took her clothes off.  It really seems to be her main gift in life.

The last four are going to be exciting.  This show never goes where you think it will.

[Peanut6711]

5 hours ago, Bec said:

LOLed at "some people are mad and they manage to be head of state, I can manage one little motel."

Loved that line! Made me wonder when this episode's script was written it was so spot on ;-)

[smorbie]

1 hour ago, Rustybones said:

Ho.Lee.Shit.  I can't bear to think this show will end.

I was leery when Marion stepped out of the shower and no one was there but didn't really expect it would happen that way.  But, I have to say when Norman and Norma were arguing about Marion and the fact that she wanted to have sex with him, they heard the car drive up and Norma said "She's back."  Then we saw Sam and the thought crossed my mind he would be killed instead of Marion.

If Freddie does not win an Emmy there's something rotten going on.  In fact I hope "someone's" been watching and he wins the starring role in a blockbuster movie.  Kudos to you, Freddie.

Of course there's something rotten going on.  Emmys go to the most politically correct activist or a show that's been defined as edgy and trendy (in other words, one no one wants to watch)

[Rustybones]

50 minutes ago, Ohwell said:

Very disappointed that they didn't follow the movie, and killed Sam instead of Marion.  If they're going that route, then Romero should kill Norman in the end.  

That's what I think will happen.

[smorbie]

33 minutes ago, Peanut6711 said:

Well I called that in the last episode's thread--in the original viewers assumed Marion would live since she was the star; in this one viewers assumed she's die. The ultimate twist is spinning expectations in a Hitch approach.  And I gotta say, after seeing it play out and thinking about it, I kinda like it from a modern, feminist point of view. Women are so often portrayed as the victims in fiction so it was nice to see Marion escape, ditch her cheating boyfriend, and speed off, tossing her phone out the window.  I liked the image and the message.   It was interesting that Norman was the catalyst to empower her. He saved her in a sense (from himself) while at the same time sinking deeper into his violent psychosis by killing Sam as himself. I will admit I thought Norman not dressed as mother in the shower scene didn't pack the visual punch although the focus on Sam's eyes (like Marion in the film) had an extra creepy "horror" feel. 

To me the visual punch was that he WASN'T dressed in mother's clothes.  It was Norman, really Norman, that sweet, disturbed boy with the angelic, elfin face with blood all over his face. 

[Chaos Theory]

Honestly I think not following the Psycho script was a smart move because now we are back to not knowing what is going to happen instead of having a pretty good roadmap.  

[smorbie]

That's what I think, too.  People have been salivating over the Marian death scene for all these years, and now...we have no idea what's happening next.  That's just excellent screen writing (are you listening, TWD?).

[Nanrad]

I wanted the iconic shower scene, but this show has always been about taking pieces from the lore and making it their own.

Last week, I speculated somewhere else that Norman hated women (it was a more complex explanation), but perhaps, he hates men. Sam was scum, but Norman rationalized his desire to kill him.

I thought Rihanna was much better this episode and that's including scenes other than taking her clothes off. She wasn't Emmy worthy, but it wasn't distracting me an dI could find it mostly believable.

I'm glad Dylan called Norman out on his shit. Dylan left for a fresh start, but he didn't cut ties completely. Norman initiated all of that.

[Peanut6711]

8 minutes ago, smorbie said:

To me the visual punch was that he WASN'T dressed in mother's clothes.  It was Norman, really Norman, that sweet, disturbed boy with the angelic, elfin face with blood all over his face. 

I'm pretty sure I don't see Norman that way anymore. LOL  Freddie has perfected that sinister look with dark crazy eyes just a few too many times now. Ironically, this shower scene death depicted the psychological angle in that it was Norman as himself while the original did it by being Norman dressed as Mother. Nice continuity at least.  

[BooBear]

1 hour ago, smorbie said:

But, I'm going to disagree about Rhianna.  I thought her performance was much more ragged this time.  Freddie carried her during all their scenes.  And she did what she does best.  She took her clothes off.  It really seems to be her main gift in life.

I am still not thrilled with her but coming from the perspective as an object of pity and a minor player it takes on a different meaning than I thought was necessary last week. I do not see her as pretty or attractive (I think she is kind of fat and skanky with the cheap red hair) but I think she effectively brought out in Norman a reminder of the way his mother suffered - not having the support of a good family and dealing with bad guys. 

Kind of makes me wonder what attracted Rianna to the role when she didn't get the big scene and was pretty forgettable. 

[peacheslatour]

14 hours ago, Mick Lady said:

I see what you did there!

I'm a little bit concerned about how early Marion is checking into Bate's Motel. There are five episodes left, right? That's a lot of time to lead up to Psycho, if they end the series with the start of the movie. Could they be retelling the first half of Psycho, or all of it? 

Wrong thread probably, but I'd like to know what you think Peach.

I think it depends on how they want it to end. Is Norman going to be caught and incarcerated like in the movie? Because if that's the case I think it will be Dylan who finally gets that done. If Romero gets to him first he will just kill him, end of story. Chick, I don't think will be instrumental in bringing Norman down because his interest is in seeing how it all plays out for his book. Dylan cares about Norman and wants to get him help. Maybe Emma will find some evidence of her mother which will lead her to discover Norma and the end will be much like it was in the movie with Dylan standing in for Sam Loomis. I have no idea, but I can't wait to see what happens. Oh wait, then it will all be over....:(

[Lostinthehouse]

Quote

I wanted the iconic shower scene, but this show has always been about taking pieces from the lore and making it their own.

Exactly!  I thought it was perfect that Marion drove away safely, and Sam (the cheating, lying bastard) got his bloody rewards <literally!>.  While there have been so many nods to the movie, it's been clear from the first episode that this is not the movie.  We never saw Mother alive in the film, we never knew her name was Norma, we never knew of the almost-incestuous love between mother & son, we never got any of the side stories or back-story, or the brother who raped Mother and a son (Dylan) came out of the relationship.  This was perfect.

And where do we go from here . . . That's the brilliance of this show and the writing.  We can guess forever, but since the movie canon has been broken, we can only watch and find out. . . 

[luna1122]

If Rihanna is fat, I just need to go throw myself off a building right now. 

[Ohwell]

Just now, luna1122 said:

If Rihanna is fat, I just need to go throw myself off a building right now. 

I'm jumping right behind you.

[Stringey]

Mixed feeling about this episode. In a way in am disappointed that Marion was not killed and not because I wanted them to film it the same way it's just Canon that she dies. I was expecting that she would get killed in a different way. For example they were setting up the shower but the twist would have been she is killed at some other time.  Sam Loomis deserved to die though. This episode was definitely a turning point for Norman. His first conscious and willing murder.

[smorbie]

1 hour ago, Peanut6711 said:

I'm pretty sure I don't see Norman that way anymore. LOL  Freddie has perfected that sinister look with dark crazy eyes just a few too many times now. Ironically, this shower scene death depicted the psychological angle in that it was Norman as himself while the original did it by being Norman dressed as Mother. Nice continuity at least.  

I don't see him that way anymore, either.  But that's who he is.

[Stringey]

1 hour ago, Rustybones said:

That's what I think will happen.

Oh i don't want to see Romero kill Norman.  I don't want to see anyone kill Norman. I either want a rebooted ending like in the movie or I want Norman to get away with it and be stuck forever in his limbo for the rest of his life. The funny thing is though after last night I don't know if he really would live the rest of his life bowing to mother. He is now clear that the person he is hallucinating is mother(his so called.protector defense mechanism that he has used to deal with trauma) and not Norma. So I am not sure if at this point the Mother personality will be able to rule him to the extent that it has before. I mean I think she has still has control but I also think he has more power now. That is just a guess.

[Chaos Theory]

Norman has only actually killed a handful of people himself.  It is usually Mother who has done the killing and usually out of some weird twisted sexual jealousy.  The teacher who was probably seducing Norman was all Mother so we're all or most of the female victims.  I think Norman has killed mainly on the name of Norma.  Which is twisted in its own right.  Mother kills for Norman and Norman kills for Norma.  

[peacheslatour]

11 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Norman has only actually killed a handful of people himself.  It is usually Mother who has done the killing and usually out of some weird twisted sexual jealousy.  The teacher who was probably seducing Norman was all Mother so we're all or most of the female victims.  I think Norman has killed mainly on the name of Norma.  Which is twisted in its own right.  Mother kills for Norman and Norman kills for Norma.  

So much THIS. Mother kills the "evil" women who tempt her precious, pure Norman and Norman kills the evil men who hurt women (read mother). It all boils down to sex and power/powerlessness.

[TattleTeeny]

Loved Marion's "screw this" or whatever she said when she got out of the shower--it was like a double fuck-you: one for the Sam situation and one meaning, "Nuh-uh, that shower is not gonna take me out despite what you expect."

[smorbie]

1 hour ago, Stringey said:

Oh i don't want to see Romero kill Norman.  I don't want to see anyone kill Norman. I either want a rebooted ending like in the movie or I want Norman to get away with it and be stuck forever in his limbo for the rest of his life. The funny thing is though after last night I don't know if he really would live the rest of his life bowing to mother. He is now clear that the person he is hallucinating is mother(his so called.protector defense mechanism that he has used to deal with trauma) and not Norma. So I am not sure if at this point the Mother personality will be able to rule him to the extent that it has before. I mean I think she has still has control but I also think he has more power now. That is just a guess.

That scene was brilliant, with the two of the in the kitchen.  I kept jumping every time she knocked something to the floor.

[Anela]

I mentioned in another thread, that I'd been spoiled. I wasn't spoiled for *that*. I figured it would happen, though, once Sam entered the hotel room, since he had nowhere else to go, and was waiting for Marion.

I do hope that Marion got away, and that Norman didn't imagine that. This is where I feel sad for him: he knows something's wrong, he's realizing the full extent of it, and he told her to leave. 

[skotnikov]

That "twist" was meh. It was kinda tired and predictable (his wife pours wine on him = blood). It feels not like the re-imagining of the original "Psycho" as it felt in the beginning, but rather as a poor-written fanfic, where Norman bonds with Marion (and then they run away with the money together). And the similar shower scene in last year's  "Damien" was done better and was far more disturbing than the one here.  

Edited March 28, 2017 by skotnikov

[Anela]

I was going to respond to posts by @smorbie and somebody else, but the board lost them - damn. I only remember that with this and TWD, Austin Nichols

 

needs to stay away from characters with knives[/spoilers]. 

I like that I run into the same people, in different show threads. :) 

Edited March 28, 2017 by Anela

[Stringey]

22 minutes ago, skotnikov said:

That "twist" was meh. It was kinda tired and predictable (his wife pours wine on him = blood). It feels not like the re-imagining of the original "Psycho" as it felt in the beginning, but rather as a poor-written fanfic, where Norman bonds with Marion (and then they run away with the money together). And the similar shower scene in last year's  "Damien" was done better and was far more disturbing than the one here.  

Don't mean to go off topic but I was one of the few that liked the show Damien and was disappointed they cancelled. I see i guess how many that were fans of the film's did not like that they altered the cannon so much.