S03.E18: Abra Kadabra

[Proteus]

31 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

It's also the reality of the situation.  Cisco's vibe powers aren't fatal to anyone he uses them on, and he doesn't depend on the constant use of his powers to survive.  Caitlin does.  She has to kill others just to live.  The necklace WAS her "power suit" to keep her lethal powers in check.

That's not true. The show has never stated that Caitlin needs to kill people to live.

[legaleagle53]

35 minutes ago, Proteus said:

That's not true. The show has never stated that Caitlin needs to kill people to live.

Oh, but it WAS true of her Earth-2 counterpart, and Caitlin knows it.  That's why she's so afraid of her powers in the first place -- she knows only too well the price for having them.

Edited March 30, 2017 by legaleagle53

[Proteus]

12 minutes ago, legaleagle53 said:

Oh, but it WAS true of her Earth-2 counterpart, and Caitlin knows it.  That's why she's so afraid of her powers in the first place -- she knows only to well the price for having them.

They never said that on the show.

[immortalfrieza]

Heroes, whenever the deal to obtain anything from a villain, much less information, has "let the villain go" as any of the conditions the villain is bullshitting you. Even if he actually knew something Abra Kadabra had no motivation to tell Team Flash ANYTHING once he was let out of his cell, especially since he had the power to disappear into thin air whenever he wanted. "I will do anything to save X" loses any justification for anything when it's incredibly obvious that "anything" doesn't have a chance in hell of working, so I'm not excusing Joe for letting him out at all.

It was obvious that Catlin was going to go completely off the rails and become Killer Frost for real the second they threw in that whole "powers=evil" thing with her. It's nonsensical of course, and if it leads to anything other than Catlin getting her powers under control and becoming a superhero it's pointless. If she dies or leaves, they could have killed her off or had her leave in any number of ways that would make far far more sense than this, and if she just loses her powers there was no reason to do the arc in the first place.

Edited March 30, 2017 by immortalfrieza

[Spaceman Spiff]

The "previous on the Flash" reminded me of how off Iris' reaction to the proposal at the end of the musical episode was. It shouldn't have been hands to mouth eyes all wide OMG! She had already been proposed to and had the ring not but 2 weeks prior, with the addendum to propose for the right reasons,the idea that this second proposal was a surprise didn't fit imho.

Also if Savitar is someone we know it will be extremely weak writing. That would be 3 seasons in a row where some trusted member or mentor has pulled the wool over everyone's eyes.

[AudienceofOne]

8 hours ago, Proteus said:

That's not true. The show has never stated that Caitlin needs to kill people to live.

Thank you. This is not true and I don't know why people keep saying it. Neither Killer Frosts need to kill to live in this iteration.

At least if that was the case, we could have had Caitlin deal with a genuine moral dilemma about her powers. Instead, we have this terrible 'my powers make me evil just brcause' plotline, which is..

9 hours ago, doram said:

the layers of misogyny that have informed this storyline where: giving a woman powers makes her evil; and stripping a woman of her agency by making her "possessed" by her powerful side.

That. 

Merlin anybody? Women can't handle power. They always have to be protected from themselves because they're moral infants. Add to that, Saint Joe the world's greatest misogynist blaming Gypsy for his decision to let Kadabra loose and every other male on the show backing him up because his myopic crusade to protect a poor little woman is noble and shit but hers is selfish. Fuck you, show.

Also, if Snow needed to kill to live then that's not something that would be turned on and off. She wasn't killing because she had no choice. She was killing because being a meta magically made her a completely different person for no reason whatsoever.  I'd be angry about this plotline if I still gave a crap about most of the characters on this show. 

[maxineofarc]

I don't remember it being said anywhere on the show that Killer Frost is a heat vampire in any universe - genuinely asking, can someone direct me to that? If so, I feel like it's bad writing not to emphasize that that's why Caitlin is afraid of her powers. I still don't see why turning on the Frost should change her personality. It removes any potential internal conflict that might make that character, I dunno, interesting. As much as I like some of the characters on this show, I think the writing for the female characters has been weak from the beginning and hasn't gotten much better.

I do suppose this could be the lead-in to the fulfillment of Cisco's vibe of him and Killer Frost battling it out.

(Also, I looked this up because it was bugging me: the minimum enlistment in the British army is 4 years. Julian is either one hell of a multitasker or he's secretly 45 years old.)

Edited March 30, 2017 by maxineofarc

[Grace19]

16 hours ago, Al Herkimer said:

Iris scrubbed in on Caitlin's operation. That was bizarre.  Doesn't she have an actual job they could show her doing?

She dose, but the writers refuse to show her at her job and the same goes for everyone on this show. Albert also have a job but I don't see anyone asking about him being at his job. Barry and Joe are barely shown at the station, I don't even think we've seen him at his job for more than a few episodes this season. Except for this episode he was only at his job at the start of the season when Albert was introduced, once he joined team flash, all Barry, Joe and Albert scenes went back to starlabs.

Starlabs is really bad for the characters developement. I hope that next season it will be done away with. Show Iris, Barry, Joe and everyone else at their jobs and contributing in their own way. This will especially help Barry as it will make him rely less on starlabs and make him a better hero that can think on his feet without anyone reminding him to run.

[ElleMo]

On 3/29/2017 at 1:50 AM, Trini said:

Also the whole thing with not taking Caitlin to the hospital was stupid. (Yeah, yeah, it makes a 'better' scene to have the team save her, BUT STILL.) They'd rather her die than go to jail? The Central City Hospital screens for metas now? And even then, she still would have gotten proper medical care (it's a TV show, I'm assuming). But it brought up something that hasn't been touched on AT ALL since the "Killer Frost" episode -- has Caitlin been living as a fugitive this whole time??

 

Yeah, I found this pretty stupid too.  And Barry is a speedster.  Can't he  carry her to Star City or some other hospital that doesn't screen for Metas?

 

I don't think she has been living as a fugitive, but I guess once the hospital realizes she's a Meta someone might put two and two together. 

[tennisgurl]

8 hours ago, AudienceofOne said:

They always have to be protected from themselves because they're moral infants. Add to that, Saint Joe the world's greatest misogynist blaming Gypsy for his decision to let Kadabra loose and every other male on the show backing him up because his myopic crusade to protect a poor little woman is noble and shit but hers is selfish. 

Yeah...this is rubbing me the wrong way too. I hate to be the girl who cried sexism, but it does really suck that this shows two main female characters still around are both victims who need to be protected and saved by men, and that's what has been driving most of the show this season. It stands out even more because, in the other three shows in this universe, they've also had plots where the good guys had to save another good guy from either a villain, or from themselves...except they were all guys. And it wasn't patronizing and stupid.

[bettername2come]

On 3/29/2017 at 7:40 PM, Al Herkimer said:

Iris scrubbed in on Caitlin's operation. That was bizarre.  Doesn't she have an actual job they could show her doing?

Thank you! Aside from HR, she's probably the least qualified to assist in surgery from the team. When was the last time they showed the newspaper office? Last season?

[Trini]

4 hours ago, bettername2come said:

When was the last time they showed the newspaper office? Last season?

In 3.11. ::SIGH::

 

4 hours ago, doram said:

Cisco, Barry, Julian... unless they had interned with Meredith Grey - had about as much qualifications to do that surgery as Iris. 

The whole concept was ridiculous but as always, it's Iris that gets the heat for it.

And all she did was sop up blood. I'm actually surprised they didn't have Cisco assist. On the other hand, Caitlin did save Iris' arm (and life) a few episodes ago, so why not have her try and return the favor?

[Trini]

On 3/29/2017 at 8:14 PM, ruby24 said:

THIS!!!!! A thousand times this! Thank you!

God, I wonder if there's any way the people behind the show can see how clear that is. The show is being suffocated by Star Labs, imo. There's very little sense of the wider world of Central City that Barry is the supposed to be the hero of. Season 1 did a much better job at being more broadly focused, with the Wells storyline not heating up until around episode 15 or so. 

Next season they need a different kind of villain who is after the city itself in some way, and The Flash incidentally, but no more of this personal revenge stuff directed at Barry.  If Caitlin can stay Killer Frost for a full season that immediately negates a lot of the need for Star Labs (Cisco can work in CCPD), but the big problem is Tom Cavanagh, who they don't want to get rid of. I don't know how they can work that one out.

I wish they would though.

I have some broader thoughts related to this that I'm taking to the Series Discussion thread.

[ElleMo]

14 hours ago, doram said:

What exactly does Star Labs do to sustain itself as a business, and presumably pay the salaries of Cisco and Caitlin*?

 

I think Barry just inherited a lot of money.  Maybe he invested it wisely?  I hope he didn't ask Ollie for investment advice because his family was stupid enough to have everything wrapped up in his business - he couldn't even keep his house and somehow didn't seem to even get dividends when his business had a hostile takeover - but that it a whole 'nother thread.

And HR set up that museum a while ago so they would have an excuse to actually be at the building. Which is actually a really good point -- why would people continue to visit a closed lab?  Didn't look likethe museum would be a big money maker, though.

 I don't know why they couldn't just say it the lab is open again and the company is working on secret projects.  Businesses generally don't announce that they are researching unless they need capital or are close to released whatever it is they are working on.

[Trini]

Nice to see Cecile again! But tickets to Hamilton that can’t be used?? Use them for currency. I do want to see a double date at some point.

So in the first scene at STAR Labs, they’ve got the board with all the future headlines, and “Music Meister gets 6-figure book deal” is NOT crossed off, but “STAR Labs Museum Closes” is crossed off. So did it close offscreen (a cut subplot?), or did it NOT close and that’s why it’s crossed off?? My guess is the former.

No, just NO to Cisco defending Caitlin taking the Philosopher’s Stone fragment and lying about it. I feel like the writers threw Caitlin under a bus with that development.

Thought that Abra Kadabra was menacing, and I hope they do more with him if he shows up again. (Although, I don’t want him to escape from Gypsy.) Too bad Joe had to get the idiot ball here. He knows better than to trust the word of criminal.

Glad to see Gypsy again, and some incremental movement with her and Cisco — but they should have just skipped the cliché backstory of a dead partner/lover.

Still not a fan of them pairing up Caitlin and Julian, but at least Tom Felton is selling it on his end. Not feeling it from Danielle. (And not just this episode, the previous few, too.) Maybe she doesn’t like this subplot either. And while it's still silly she didn’t go to a hospital, I did like that they showed off her (TV) doctor skills.

I guess it’s good that they have scenes where Barry is considering his options, but on the other hand, we know he wasn’t going to let Kadabra go free. He needs Iris to keep his head straight.

A Joe/Iris scene!! Not enough father/daughter moments. It always great when they give JL Martin material to work with.

Did not miss HR at all.

When the show puts their minds to it, they really know how to do a cliffhanger. They made Cisco cry!  :(  I already shared my thoughts on the Killer Frost arc, but I have to say that was a really powerful scene of the birth of Killer Frost.

[Katsullivan]

1 hour ago, Trini said:

Not feeling it from Danielle. (And not just this episode, the previous few, too.) Maybe she doesn’t like this subplot either.

Well, the actress has been pointedly disinterested in any of her canon romantic plotlines, preferring instead to talk up the crack ship between her and Barry so I won't be surprised if that influences her performance. 

[mac123x]

Tom Felton in a tank top... I'll be in my bunk.  Lusting aside, he really is a fantastic actor.  The joy and relief when he was holding Caitlin's hand was palpable, and the panic when she coded.  I did roll my eyes when he said "bring the oxygen" and Cicso shows up with a breathing bag, though that was the right tool.  I'm also glad that when er heart stopped he did CPR instead of the usual "shock paddles" bullshi... oh, wait, of course they did.

 

Killer Frost on Earth 2 -- didn't she help the team out at one point?  I seem to remember her making an ice slope for them to climb up to reach the lair of [generic evil speedster number 734], and ice-tombing him to give them enough time to escape.

 

Barry is going to run to the future!  Yay, that won't have consequences, most likely being the genesis of Savatar.  "I wouldn't exist if you hadn't run into the future, Flaaaaash!". 

 

I guess they've milked the "Barry runs into the past and fucks things up" cow dry, so here's something new.  Or newish.  Next year, in order to foil [Generic evil speedster number 736] Barry will have to run forward and slightly to the left!

[Proteus]

5 hours ago, Trini said:

 

Still not a fan of them pairing up Caitlin and Julian, but at least Tom Felton is selling it on his end. Not feeling it from Danielle. (And not just this episode, the previous few, too.) Maybe she doesn’t like this subplot either. And while it's still silly she didn’t go to a hospital, I did like that they showed off her (TV) doctor skills.

I like them together. I think both Danielle and Tom were great in their scenes this week.

3 hours ago, Katsullivan said:

Well, the actress has been pointedly disinterested in any of her canon romantic plotlines, preferring instead to talk up the crack ship between her and Barry so I won't be surprised if that influences her performance. 

I've never bought this critisizim of DP. There is nothing wrong with her saying positive things about the Snowbarry ship. I know some loathe that the fanbase exists, but everyone has the right to like what they like.

[bmoore4026]

On 3/29/2017 at 7:14 PM, ruby24 said:

THIS!!!!! A thousand times this! Thank you!

God, I wonder if there's any way the people behind the show can see how clear that is. The show is being suffocated by Star Labs, imo. There's very little sense of the wider world of Central City that Barry is the supposed to be the hero of. Season 1 did a much better job at being more broadly focused, with the Wells storyline not heating up until around episode 15 or so. 

Next season they need a different kind of villain who is after the city itself in some way, and The Flash incidentally, but no more of this personal revenge stuff directed at Barry.  If Caitlin can stay Killer Frost for a full season that immediately negates a lot of the need for Star Labs (Cisco can work in CCPD), but the big problem is Tom Cavanagh, who they don't want to get rid of. I don't know how they can work that one out.

I wish they would though.

I'd love it if we saw more of CCPD.  And I miss Linda the reporter.  She was only in two episodes, but I liked her.

[DearEvette]

I think the insular feel of them being 1)located in Star Labs and 2) being so focused in Savitar  is probably why I think this season is a big dud for me.  I love the forward momentum with WestAllen, for sure, but I think the show just feels so gloomy.  They've become Arrow and I don't watch Arrow because of how dark it is. 

Meanwhile Legends of Tomorrow seems to have inherited the fun zaniness and humor that the Flash had in S1.

I wish they'd go back to what they had in S1.  Barry & Joe dealing with meta human villains (or even just really evil genius human villains sometimes) as part of their work at CCPD.  Iris doing investigative journalism, maybe helping out their cases or even obstructing them in some ways by protecting a source that could help in the case.  And Cisco and Caitlin could continue to be their Star Labs meta human support and called in as experts when needed.

And if they have to have a big bad every season why does it have to be a time traveling speedster?  Think about it, S1 was Eobard, S2 was Zoom and now S3 is Savitar. Why can't is be a more subtle meta human who is really passing as a regular human. One that requires more than just using the speed force or time traveling to defeat?  Someone who would require the use of the police tracking down clues, an investigative journalist using a sourcing to winkle out information and some smart scientists to help tie it all together? And would require them to move around Central City and see more of the citizenry?

[Cthulhudrew]

On 3/29/2017 at 10:34 AM, maxineofarc said:

Speaking of Cisco, I found his attempt at game in this episode really off-putting. If that's the way he talks to people he's interested in, no wonder he doesn't date much.

So it wasn't just me, then.

[Cthulhudrew]

On 3/29/2017 at 5:14 PM, ruby24 said:

God, I wonder if there's any way the people behind the show can see how clear that is. The show is being suffocated by Star Labs, imo. There's very little sense of the wider world of Central City that Barry is the supposed to be the hero of. Season 1 did a much better job at being more broadly focused, with the Wells storyline not heating up until around episode 15 or so.

Funny you both mention this, because when the intro clip aired with Barry's "By day, I'm an ordinary forensic scientist" I commented to my friends they should ditch that, because when was the last time they ever showed him at work? Of course, the show almost immediately put the lie to my snide comment by having Barry actually show up at a crime scene again (lolz). Even then, though, they barely ran with it; it really only served as a touchstone to kick off the Kadabra plot. There was never any subsequent follow up to the CCPD's investigation or anything. 

On 3/31/2017 at 8:11 PM, Proteus said:

I've never bought this critisizim of DP. There is nothing wrong with her saying positive things about the Snowbarry ship. I know some loathe that the fanbase exists, but everyone has the right to like what they like.

FWIW, I think the best onscreen chemistry she's had with anyone was with Barry back in season one, notably in (I think) "Crazy for You."

[Trini]

I think this time at least there's a better reason to time travel than other times when it was dumb. Maybe we'll finally see this Future Flash that has managed to make so many enemies. I guess I don't mind that there's time travel on the show - it's been here since the pilot - and it's one of the Flash's powers, so I'm already expecting it to happen every so often.

Cisco/Vibe has become so powerful, so quickly that I'm a little afraid they'll do something to him so that he's not upstaging Barry/Flash.

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 hours ago, Trini said:

Maybe we'll finally see this Future Flash that has managed to make so many enemies.

This is the sticking point for me; how is this Future Flash even alive to make all the villains hate/be jealous of him? Remember, Thawne came from the...35th century, Kadabra from the 64th. How is Barry even alive? Or is just reading about what a good hero Barry was that caused them to be jealous and hate him? Or, as I asked, either here, or in another thread, does Barry's speed make him immortal? Which, I don't think so, because as we saw in Young Justice, Jay Garrick is an old man, and clearly that Barry Allen is older than Wally West!

[Ottis]

Someone is always dying on this show. Dying or pouting. And if they die, they come back one way or another. And really, Abracadabra? That name persisted until the 64th century? 

Killer Frost is way more interesting than Kaitlin. She and Snark rule. 

4 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

This is the sticking point for me; how is this Future Flash even alive to make all the villains hate/be jealous of him? Remember, Thawne came from the...35th century, Kadabra from the 64th. How is Barry even alive? Or is just reading about what a good hero Barry was that caused them to be jealous and hate him? Or, as I asked, either here, or in another thread, does Barry's speed make him immortal? Which, I don't think so, because as we saw in Young Justice, Jay Garrick is an old man, and clearly that Barry Allen is older than Wally West!

I don't think he is alive through all that time. I think his constant tinkering with timelines makes both the future and the past mad at him. At least he is consistent.

Edited April 2, 2017 by Ottis

[GHScorpiosRule]

8 minutes ago, Ottis said:

Someone is always dying on this show. Dying or pouting. And really, Abracadabra? That name persisted until the 64th century? 

Killer Frost is way more interesting than Kaitlin. She and Snark rule. 

I don't think he is alive through all that time. I think his constant tinkering with timelines makes both the future and the past mad at him. At least he is consistent.

Except that it was Thawne who did the original tinkering-went back in time to kill Barry, but decided to kill Nora instead. And from then on, from that timeline that he created, we got Barry going back and ending with yet another timeline of Flashpoint.

[Argenta]

On 29/03/2017 at 1:33 PM, benteen said:

This is an excellent point.  Thawne has literally wiped his ass with the timeline...

This made me laugh for five solid minutes. Can I buy you a drink?

[legaleagle53]

10 hours ago, doram said:

I'm probably the only one who thinks so but to me, Danielle P and Carlos V have consistently  had more natural, less forced chemistry with each other than with any of the canon or fanon relationships they've Been put in. 

 

 

Even more baffling is that Thawne said that he and Barry have been battling for centuries. Don't know about what you guys think, but that's approaching immortal, god-like characteristics... dun dun dun...

To two speedsters who can travel through time whenever they want to, linear time is irrelevant.  They've simply battled across many centuries because they've encountered each other many times throughout their travels, past, present, and future.  Just because Barry's upcoming trip to the future is his first deliberate trip there, that doesn't mean that it's his only trip there.

Edited April 3, 2017 by legaleagle53

[Cthulhudrew]

BTW, speaking of Future Flashes, have they ever- definitively- settled the question of who the Future Flash that waved off Present Barry waaaay back in 1x23?

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

[So I binged the last 8 episodes I've missed - sorta kinda sometimes maybe missed - to get ready for the show coming back next week.  3.17 Duet was the worst - and by that I mean the episode, not the singing voices or dance moves - and unfortunately can't be unseen now, not to mention horribly misplaced in the production/aired order.  Seriously, what is with this light switch of a WA relationship?;  OFF at the end of one episode, and back ON again at the end of the next one........]

These made up dialogues are where I'm at with this show right now.  And have been for most the season, and last.  This show has become a muddled charicature of it's S1 self.  The only thing I can find to compliment about it is the rare few drama-free WA moments.  That's really about it.

-  "Iris, I (re-)proposed to you, and am so happy you said yes *cough*again*cough*, but you should know by now that the Timeline is my first and only true love.  I am gonna f* it so hard in an attempt to save your life.  I mean, it worked out so well all the times before now, it can only go horribly unperfect this time.  Super stoked."

-  "Barry, time traveling has only ever ended badly for you, for all of us, so you really shouldn't do it."
"Yeah, ok, I know.  So.... I'm just gonna go travel in time again and then cry about the consequences later.  Same song, same verse."

Edited April 21, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[legaleagle53]

On 4/20/2017 at 8:12 PM, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

-  "Iris, I (re-)proposed to you, and am so happy you said yes *cough*again*cough*, but you should know by now that the Timeline is my first and only true love.  I am gonna f* it so hard in an attempt to save your life.  I mean, it worked out so well all the times before now, it can only go horribly unperfect this time.  Super stoked."

-  "Barry, time traveling has only ever ended badly for you, for all of us, so you really shouldn't do it."
"Yeah, ok, I know.  So.... I'm just gonna go travel in time again and then cry about the consequences later.  Same song, same verse."

Not really.  Barry has never deliberately traveled to the future before, and he's not doing it with the purpose of changing the existing timeline.  He's going there on a fact-finding mission regarding Savitar's identity in hopes of finding a way to defeat him and prevent him from murdering Iris next month. That's different from going back in time to undo a past murder.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

1 hour ago, legaleagle53 said:

Not really.  Barry has never deliberately traveled to the future before, and he's not doing it with the purpose of changing the existing timeline.  He's going there on a fact-finding mission regarding Savitar's identity in hopes of finding a way to defeat him and prevent him from murdering Iris next month. That's different from going back in time to undo a past murder.

So says logic and facts, but this being the CW, its just much easier (not to mention more cerebral) to pre-accept that unnecessary drama and/or heartache are destined to result from this upcoming venture.

Edited April 22, 2017 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[johntfs]

46 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

So says logic and facts, but this being the CW, its just much easier (not to mention more cerebral) to pre-accept that unnecessary drama and/or heartache are destined to result from this upcoming venture.

Yeah but you pretty much had to know all that going in.  This is a superhero show.  Angst is woven into the costuming.  If you wanted necessary drama and heartache, you have dropped this and Netflixed Breaking Bad or The Wire.

For my part, I agree with Barry's reasoning here.  They can't afford to be fighting Savitar with their eyes closed.  Taking potshots at changing the headlines isn't cutting it.  They need actionable intelligence on just exactly who and what they're up against and the exact events leading up to Iris' murder.  That's the only way they have a real chance to stop it and Savitar.  And the only place to get that knowledge is from the future.  Or at least a future.

[CletusMusashi]

On 4/2/2017 at 3:29 PM, Ottis said:

And really, Abracadabra? That name persisted until the 64th century? 

Maybe his actual name is something like Abraham K'Dabrazorg.

[legaleagle53]

On 4/2/2017 at 0:29 PM, Ottis said:

And really, Abracadabra? That name persisted until the 64th century?

It did in the comics.  The episode writers didn't just pull that name out of their asses.

Although I do wonder how Earth-19 would be able to execute someone who has technology from 4300 years in the future at his command and could use it to escape before anyone so much as said boo.

Edited May 6, 2017 by legaleagle53

[johntfs]

1 hour ago, legaleagle53 said:

It did in the comics.  The episode writers didn't just pull that name out of their asses.

Although I do wonder how Earth-19 would be able to execute someone who has technology from 4300 years in the future at his command and could use it to escape before anyone so much as said boo.

Kadabra was a cool, genuinely evil villain.  I assume that he murdered his way to freedom about 38 seconds after he and Gypsy went through the portal.

[legaleagle53]

2 hours ago, johntfs said:

Kadabra was a cool, genuinely evil villain.  I assume that he murdered his way to freedom about 38 seconds after he and Gypsy went through the portal.

Oh, no doubt.  Didn't he tell Barry that they had fought many times over the centuries?

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Oh, no doubt.  Didn't he tell Barry that they had fought many times over the centuries?

Sure, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.  Kadabra is/was a time traveler.  Even if Gypsy's people killed him really most sincerely dead, his previous (for him) travels could see Barry fighting versions of him for the next twenty years or so., kind of like the business with Thawne in season Two.

[Katsullivan]

After reading @doram's synopsis, I am even more dissatisfied with this episode. Barry should have crossed the line with Abra Kadabra, and helped him escape. AK should have turned around and admitted that he didn't know who Savitar was - no one ever did. Which would have then pushed Barry to almost-murdering him, only to be stopped in time by Team Flash. 

This is what should have led to the Westallen break-up, not that contrived nonsense. It would explain why Iris is not wearing a ring in the future. 

[phoenics]

Nevermind.

Edited May 10, 2017 by phoenics