S02.E16: Doomworld

[scarynikki12]

Quote

After obtaining the Spear of Destiny, the Legion of Doom rewrites reality, leaving the Legends changed, perhaps forever.

 

[Last Time Lord]

This was a ton of fun, but man, I was not expecting Amara to be frozen and shattered like that.

[dkb]

First, Go Gideon!!

Second, those cakes looked great. 

Poor Rip, losing his teammates and no mission to go on.

Hehe, "how are these sandwiches so good?!"

Jax was pretty good at yelling and poor Stein.

Ray was adorable again, and I laughed at the "sooo many toilets."

I can't believe I'm going to say this but Nate didn't bother me this episode and was pretty funny. I can't believe I just said that, am I in an alternate reality?? :)

Sara and Amaya were kickass and Rory was great. Stop punching him people! Also stop being so mean to him.

Wow , the episode took a dark turn. Rory makes the right decision and Amaya's dead? Omg Rip and the Waverider are right there!! I guess Stein is going to be the key cause he still has access to the lab.

If I didn't love the legends so much and seen all the horrible things he's done before, I wouldn't actually mind Thawne. In his wacked out way he's being kind by not killing all of them.

Lastly, god why did I watch live?, its so tedious with all the commercials. 

1 minute ago, Jediknight said:

Come on show, there's no way Ray would just stand there and not stick up for Mick.  2 episodes in a row he's done that, and it goes completely against his character.

Stein saying he didn't want to see Jefferson again was a punch to the gut, he's the son Stein never had, and Stein is a second father to Jefferson.

The Buffy reference was great, and it was by somebody who was in an episode.

 

I agree with this, like I said last episode. But I guess it makes sense in this episode, he did betray them.

Edited March 29, 2017 by dkb

[Jediknight]

Come on show, there's no way Ray would just stand there and not stick up for Mick.  2 episodes in a row he's done that, and it goes completely against his character.

Stein saying he didn't want to see Jefferson again was a punch to the gut, he's the son Stein never had, and Stein is a second father to Jefferson.

The Buffy reference was great, and it was by somebody who was in an episode.

[squidprincess]

I don't blame Ray for being quiet.  Sara was right: Mick had just betrayed them.  That's no way to prove that they were wrong to distrust him.  I was very glad that Mick came through in the end though.  (But they better resurrect poor Amaya!)

Rip's situation was kind of darkly funny, but when you think about it, the poor guy was basically stuck in solitary confinement for a year.  With Gideon, but still, that's a horrible situation to be in.

Edited March 29, 2017 by squidprincess

[Lantern7]

I'll be dipped. The cold gun actually froze somebody solid. Looks like Snart rewrote history to make that happen.

Hardcore episode, even with the camp, an abusive Jax, and Nate in a bad wig. Plus side: Sarah in leather. Almost worth seeing Felicity bite it. At least she didn't dye her hair. Looks like Gothlicity never stopped being a thing.

I feel bad for Mick. He kept the group alive, and he gets smacked for that. He wanted to help his friend, but (this) Snart was a prick. He had to choose between the reset button and being regarded as a traitor and the Twilight Zone episode where the gangster dies and thinks he's in heaven.

They had a Legion of Doom-style building. So awesome. Sucks that the finale is next week. Why can't we get 22-23 episodes?

[Sakura12]

That was pretty dark for a Legends episode. That's why it's called Doomworld. It was definitely an exciting episode, this is still the most improved DC show this season. 

While the Legends were being extra jerky to Mick last episode they never treated him like a dog. They let him plan missions, something Snart never did. Sara did show her trust in him when she handed him the spear, he betrayed that trust. I get why they are mad. He choose right in the end and they showed that he does care about them. He'll help them get Amaya back. 

So their broken rule is to go back to an exact moment they were at. Although I wonder how they get the Waverider out of toy size. 

[SnoGirl]

How did Ray not remember seeing the Waverider on the desk? As the janitor, you would think he would have cleaned that room sometime.

Poor Mick, did the right thing twice and was still punished for it. If he survives the season, I hope someone sticks up for him/becomes a real friend. I have given up on Snart coming back, so I hope someone slides into the Mick friend role. I think he's hilarious!

Speaking of Snart, what a jerk. He was AWFUL.

Once again....the Waverider can go anywhere in time. Why can't the steal the pieces of the spear DAYS before the Legion? Guh. This is what frustrates me about time travel. I also would have suggested getting Barry to rescue Snart as well, but that's just me.

Edited March 29, 2017 by SnoGirl
Words need to be spelled right.

[kirinan]

First, I wish they had never brought Snart back--and considering how much I love the character, that's something I never thought I'd say. I would rather remember him the way he was last season. Even on The Flash, he wasn't this (heh) cold. I hate you for ruining that memory, writers and producers. Absolutely LOATHE you.

Second, this was by far the best episode of the season, IMO. The right mix of action, and suspense, and comedy. I knew Mick would come through, and I still believe he'll help save everything. And I don't think he's going to have to die to do it. I'm hopeful no one will have to die this season. 

Third, I'm so sorry that next week is the season finale. I wish we had more episodes! This has become by far the best of the DC shows (well, the three that I watch. I don't know about Arrow). But I'm pretty sure that finale will be kickass. 

Edited March 29, 2017 by kirinan

[dippydee]

Nooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!! Amaya better not be dead. I will be seriously pissed at the show if we lose her.

I enjoyed Evil Sara and Amaya kicking ass. They were great. I also loved the joke about Sara always dying- i almost wish she was the one shattered at the end because at least we'd  know she was going to be ok.

Poor Mick he finally does the right thing and all he gets are punches. He deserved one maybe but not one from everyone. Plus now he's broken up with Snart too. Someone needs to be on his side. I volunteer!

i loved Rip's cakes. They looked so yummy. Drunk Rip was pretty funny but I'm glad Gideon got him to snap out of it. I really hope they get AI Gideon soon because I'm totally shipping them at this point.

Edited March 29, 2017 by dippydee

[unlfan03]

12 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

That was pretty dark for a Legends episode. That's why it's called Doomworld. It was definitely an exciting episode, this is still the most improved DC show this season. 

 

The reason that this is the most improved episode is that they don't take themselves seriously and allow the actors to break the 4th wall and wink at the camera. They have interfered/influenced with 2 beloved geekdoms and it has been glorious, now they just need to get to Gene Roddenberry and they'll have a trifecta. (and maybe some more riffs on Dr Who I think if they could get Karen Gillian to do a cameo it would be brilliant.) It is obvious that I am not the only one that wanted someone to miss with the memory gun and hit Snart, the only way that I accept this current Snart is if he turns out to be like Rip and had his memory modified. This is not Snart in any form after he got the ice gun on Flash.

The rest of the show was good, I liked everyone in Nate's Moms basement as well as Ray's gamer pad. My only other hand waving was the fusion reactor to destroy the spear...I mean why wouldn't Rip just have thrown it into a star if it could be burned in a fusion reactor that could be contained on Earth?

Edited March 29, 2017 by unlfan03

[tennisgurl]

19 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

Come on show, there's no way Ray would just stand there and not stick up for Mick.  2 episodes in a row he's done that, and it goes completely against his character.

That was my last favorite part of the episode. Did the writers really forget that Ray and Mick were BFFs for most of the season? Although, Ray did have to clean A LOT of toilets. Plus, it seems like they actually made Ray dumber (beyond his muscle memory that let him create the memory thing), and that had to hurt a lot, given his massive inferiority complex. I`ll cut him some slack. But I want a reconciliation next week damn it!

Other then that, it was awesome! I'm disappointed so many people on the Arrow board are so pissed off about Felicity being killed, but at least she got to go out fighting and telling the bad guys to suck it. Just give this show a chance damn it! It had so many great moments!

This was a pretty damn dark episode, especially for this show, but it had some really hilarious moments too, like Damian and Nate momentarily celebrating together and almost high fiving before Damian was like "this seems weird", everyone hanging out in Nate's moms basement and going on about how great her sandwiches are, and Rip being a deranged cake baker. Granted, the Rip stuff was more darkly funny then anything, and mainly just made me feel bad for him. Its actually really awful when you think about it. Rips whole deal is that he failed his family, and now he had had to live in solitary (well, at least Gideon is there) confinement knowing he failed again, and his new family have been brainwashed to happily serve the villains. Poor guy has had THE WORST year, and he came from a post apocalyptic future!

Really, what Thawne did in general seems kind of funny on the surface, but it was honestly really fucked up, and I actually do get why he did this instead of killing them. He made it so they all either fear or worship him, and he gets to see his enemy's calling him "Sir" and acting like he's hot shit or cowering in his presence, while he giggles over having total power over his enemy's. He was practically doing a happy dance a few times. He is a super great villain, but that asshole needs to be dead. And poor Sara has to be the lackey of the guy who killed her sister. There is going to be a line of people a few miles long ready to kick the Legions asses after this.

I keep telling myself that this Snart isn't the same guy from last season who sacrificed himself for everyone, but this is still really sad to see. I am glad that his dick behavior helped Mick see he made the wrong call. I hope they can really trust him after all this, and get Amaya un frozen ASAP! This is not alright!

My heart broke when Stein said he never wanted to see Jax again. Jax looked like he got punched. This shit needs fixing.

Edited March 29, 2017 by tennisgurl

[thuganomics85]

Well, that was a bleak ending.  Obviously, I doubt Amaya is gone for good (certainly hope not), but Snart just freezing and shattering her like that was... ice cold (sorry!)  Interesting that they really didn't focus on Nate's reaction to her death, but Mick's instead, but I'm fine with that, because I do think it would effect him a lot.  The one person who believed in him, and Snart took her off the board without a second though.

The Legion's (or Eobard's) perfect world was something to behold.  Fun seeing a Vigilante Felicity, until she got brutally killed (by "Sara" no less!)  But I love that all of them still can barely get along, and are already at each others throats.  The snark was off the charts!  Especially when Snart was mocking Damien for the bad guy monologue (hey, at least Malcom liked it!)  And, sure enough, they all hate Eobard, because while they all might be villains, he's a villain on another level.  Credit to both the show and especially Matt Letscher, because they really have made him one of the best season long villains in quite some time.  I will almost be sad if/when he is finally defeated, but it will be totally well-deserved!

Glad Mick saw the error of his ways (twice!), but I don't blame Sara for wanting him to stay behind, and not being able to trust them.  He does have to reprove his loyalty again, even if the Legions were being dicks to him last episode.  Although, hopefully the rest will try to lay off of him as well.  Still, I'm curious to see if Mick will ever be able to be a full team member, again.

Rip stuck in a miniature Waverider was a hilarious surprise!  But Gideon proves to be the real hero of this episode.

Interesting that Martin is still stuck without his memories, so he'll likely remain an enemy to the Legions for now. 

Curious to see how this will all get wrapped up next week!

[Sakura12]

I did like seeing both Malcolm and Darhk acknowledge Sara's ability to never stay dead and to rally her team. Those are her super powers. I guess they heard one of her motivational speeches. 

Damian and Nate almost high fiveing was great. For a moment there they were all on the same side trying to kill Eobard. 

[kismet]

That was a really whoa episode. Dark for LoT, even with all the humor. I did not see that happening to Amaya, that was a shocker that I kept my jaw on the floor for longer than I thought. I really hope them breaking the time travel rules helps get Amaya back. I thought we might lose her this season, but that was definitely how I wanted it to happen.

Loved all the alternative realities for people, they were kinda perfect in their own way. Rip baking, was hysterical, glad Gideon broke him of it, although I truly have no memory of how that happened on the show. All the sudden Rip was in his jacket.

I didn't mind the punches for Mick, he did betray them and the Legends aren't always best at using their words. I also did not like how Snart treated him, it was nice to see the show made Mick realize how badly Snart was treating him. The Legends might not have treated Mick ideally, but they never treated him like a dog.

All in all, I think it was a really good episode. It was not predictable at all. I thought some stuff was pretty on point. Loved that even in the alt-reality Bad Guy monologues are not as effective as the Villain thinks they will be. Also loved that MM still tried to make DD feel better.

Lastly, I was really excited to see EBR/FS guest star on the show as one of the last Heroes of Star City. Her cameo, was way too short. And I really wish it could have been longer and more substantial. The neck breaking was brutal, but appropriate for SL. I still would rather take neck breaking over freezing & breaking into many pieces.

[tennisgurl]

Also, I freaking LOVE that they made the lab look like the actual Legion of Doom headquarters from the carton! This show, yall.

[Primal Slayer]

THe episode wasn't as exciting as I was hoping it would be but it was ok. I wasn't surprised to see Felicity bite the dust but thought she'd be given a bit more to do.

Evil Sara was fun, shame they didn't really let Amaya cut loose with her. 

If they insist on Freeze and Fire using their guns, they should let them work more properly. Of course the one time they do it in what seems like ages, it's to kill Amaya. What are these writers obsession with filling females? We've seen all of the regulars die while the males continue getting off scott free. 

[Ashand11]

55 minutes ago, kirinan said:

First, I wish they had never brought Snart back--and considering how much I love the character, that's something I never thought I'd say. I would rather remember him the way he was last season. Even on The Flash, he wasn't this (heh) cold. I hate you for ruining that memory, writers and producers. Absolutely LOATHE you.

Second, this was by far the best episode of the season, IMO. The right mix of action, and suspense, and comedy. I knew Mick would come through, and I still believe he'll help save everything. And I don't think he's going to have to die to do it. I'm hopeful no one will have to die this season. 

Third, I'm so sorry that next week is the season finale. I wish we had more episodes! This has become by far the best of the DC shows (well, the three that I watch. I don't know about Arrow). But I'm pretty sure that finale will be kickass. 

Completely agree!

[Primal Slayer]

5 minutes ago, kismet said:

That was a really whoa episode. Dark for LoT, even with all the humor. I did not see that happening to Amaya, that was a shocker that I kept my jaw on the floor for longer than I thought. I really hope them breaking the time travel rules helps get Amaya back. I thought we might lose her this season, but that was definitely how I wanted it to happen.

If everyone else is dead in Doomworld, wouldnt Amaya still be alive if they fix everything.

[Last Time Lord]

7 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Also, I freaking LOVE that they made the lab look like the actual Legion of Doom headquarters from the carton! This show, yall.

If you could have heard how hard I laughed when I saw that...

[Ashand11]

48 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Well, that was a bleak ending.  Obviously, I doubt Amaya is gone for good (certainly hope not), but Snart just freezing and shattering her like that was... ice cold (sorry!)  Interesting that they really didn't focus on Nate's reaction to her death, but Mick's instead, but I'm fine with that, because I do think it would effect him a lot.  The one person who believed in him, and Snart took her off the board without a second though.

The Legion's (or Eobard's) perfect world was something to behold.  Fun seeing a Vigilante Felicity, until she got brutally killed (by "Sara" no less!)  But I love that all of them still can barely get along, and are already at each others throats.  The snark was off the charts!  Especially when Snart was mocking Damien for the bad guy monologue (hey, at least Malcom liked it!)  And, sure enough, they all hate Eobard, because while they all might be villains, he's a villain on another level.  Credit to both the show and especially Matt Letscher, because they really have made him one of the best season long villains in quite some time.  I will almost be sad if/when he is finally defeated, but it will be totally well-deserved!

Glad Mick saw the error of his ways (twice!), but I don't blame Sara for wanting him to stay behind, and not being able to trust them.  He does have to reprove his loyalty again, even if the Legions were being dicks to him last episode.  Although, hopefully the rest will try to lay off of him as well.  Still, I'm curious to see if Mick will ever be able to be a full team member, again.

Rip stuck in a miniature Waverider was a hilarious surprise!  But Gideon proves to be the real hero of this episode.

Interesting that Martin is still stuck without his memories, so he'll likely remain an enemy to the Legions for now. 

Curious to see how this will all get wrapped up next week!

If he wasn't to be trusted then why would he bother fixing them.

[TDT]

7 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Also, I freaking LOVE that they made the lab look like the actual Legion of Doom headquarters from the carton! This show, yall.

All that was missing was the 3 whooshing stars scene transition from Super Friends and a narrator saying "Meanwhile..at the Legion of Doom.."

[Ashand11]

Leave it to Jax to mess up shooting Stein. What was all of the diddie daddling about?

[kismet]

9 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Other then that, it was awesome! I'm disappointed so many people on the Arrow board are so pissed off about Felicity being killed, but at least she got to go out fighting and telling the bad guys to suck it. Just give this show a chance damn it! It had so many great moments!

I mean I get it, but it's their loss. The show is really a lot of fun. It's well written & acted on a consistent basis, and that is a rarity these days in the Flarrowverse. Seriously, I love LoT!

I do think it was not a good move of LoT or CW PR, whoever decided to have MG & co release/leak FS in a mask. I think it built up expectations for a passionate fanbase that didn't pan out well for the Hero. To watch a favorite brutally killed in the first few minutes, after having it built up as guest appearance is a lot to swallow. And for some people, they are really attached to FS, so perhaps it felt a little personal that they took FS and used her for publicity, knowing they were going to kill her. It also doesn't sit well with people that there is a contingency of the Flarrowverse fandom that celebrates FS being brutalized & killed. It must make some fans of FS not feel welcome.

Even though when you look at it, the LoT writers did make her the Last Hero of SC, and killed by the show's star assassin. So it was a testament to how great FS is, even if she met her demise, which is bound to happen in a reality where Heroes do not exist.

[squidprincess]

3 minutes ago, Ashand11 said:

If he wasn't to be trusted then why would he bother fixing them.

Maybe he got bored?  Maybe he is indecisive?  Maybe it's a new torment, to bring them back to themselves and give them some hope just to take it away?

I mean, we saw that Mick went to considerable efforts to get the team back.  But Sara didn't see that.  It's understandable that she doesn't know whether they can trust him.

[KirkB]

2 minutes ago, Last Time Lord said:

7 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Also, I freaking LOVE that they made the lab look like the actual Legion of Doom headquarters from the carton! This show, yall.

If you could have heard how hard I laughed when I saw that...

Me too.

The thing with Snart is, and it's easy to forget this, but in his first appearance on Flash he was a much darker character. He killed one of his partners because the guy messed up his plans, he killed the guy who gave him the cold gun, and he killed a guard just to distract Barry. He had little respect for anyone or anything besides himself. It was his later appearances, especially after they introduced his sister, that they started to humanize him. So while he may very well have been altered by the Legion, this was not so far removed from the guy he used to be.

Mick deserved the mistrust. He DID betray them and help screw up the world. The punching thing, while funny, might have been a step too far, though I did like the fact he acknowledged he deserved the one from Sara.

Felicity being killed doesn't bother me and I like the character. But this isn't her show. And let's face it, she outlasted both Barry and Oliver.

Amaya being killed also didn't bother me too much, because I have been kind of meh about her anyway.

[Last Time Lord]

3 minutes ago, KirkB said:

The thing with Snart is, and it's easy to forget this, but in his first appearance on Flash he was a much darker character. He killed one of his partners because the guy messed up his plans, he killed the guy who gave him the cold gun, and he killed a guard just to distract Barry. He had little respect for anyone or anything besides himself. It was his later appearances, especially after they introduced his sister, that they started to humanize him. So while he may very well have been altered by the Legion, this was not so far removed from the guy he used to be.

The weird thing is I was actually a little happy to have early Season One Flash Snart back.

[kismet]

6 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

If everyone else is dead in Doomworld, wouldnt Amaya still be alive if they fix everything.

I have no idea. Honestly, the rules & realities of Doomsworld escape me and I might not really care to figure it out. I know it's supposed to stick because the spear was destroyed. But I have no idea who stays alive or dead. They probably will save Amaya. But it was unexpected that we have to save her at all, and not in that drastic way. I thought we might just get a she wants to return to her time period, not a we need to go back in time to stop this from ever happening and hopefully keep Amaya from being killed.

Just realized, the entire Justice League from the premiere/early episodes are currently dead.

[Lady Calypso]

I'll be totally honest; I was waiting all episode for a Legend to die, since we know that they can just rewrite reality and have them brought back to life. So I wasn't surprised when Amaya was killed. I was more surprised in the brutal way that she was killed and the fact that she won't be brought back until next week. They definitely went dark there, especially with them following through with the destruction of the spear. Now the Legends have to go back in time to save reality and Amaya. I will be genuinely surprised if they can't bring her back. If that happens, then I'll probably feel more than I do now. I just feel confident that it's not permanent. 

Time's confusing. You'd think that reality changing would mean history would be different. I guess this isn't an entirely new reality, after all, if they can go back in time to when they had the spear in the first place?

Damn, poor Rip. He's driven mad and to drink in the Tiny Waverider on Eobard's desk. At least the one thing Eobard can't change is Gideon's devotion to her Captain! Go Gideon! I also love that Eobard took over STAR Labs. What a neat little detail there.

Hey, Badass Felicity! Even if you were killed, you looked badass in your cameo! I was fine with her being killed, because it's an alternate reality at the end of the day, and she won't stay dead. It's Doomworld, after all. People are bound to die. I mean, they basically symbolically showed that all the other heroes were killed as well. 

Nate was great this episode. I laughed at his long hair and I did enjoy that he was such a believer of the Scars changing reality.  

So...Stein/Jax conflict may be a result of Doomworld, but I now fear that it's really going to affect their relationship going forward. I still see signs of Stein leaving the team. With the Spear becoming a reality changer, they could easily erase the existence of Firestorm to do it.

I do think that the team is right to be pissed at Mick right now, but the punching went too far and them not understanding what their role was in having Mick betray the team was unnecessary. I do like that Amaya's the one to believe in Mick. I did briefly think that they could actually be the true endgame couple for the first time since the beginning of the season. Even with Nate's genuinely heartbreaking reaction to her death. Damn, Nick Zano can cry and he got me feeling for Nate.  

Evil Sara was fun, but did she sound different to anyone else? Like she was making her voice squeakier and perhaps a little stereotypically blonde with the hair twirling? 

[Sakura12]

5 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

IEvil Sara was fun, but did she sound different to anyone else? Like she was making her voice squeakier and perhaps a little stereotypically blonde with the hair twirling? 

Well Felicity did call them them the Bimbo Squad. That was probably Darhk that made her into that. I think Caity lowers her voice to play Sara. She's used her squeaky voice to play younger Sara as well. 

Edited March 29, 2017 by Sakura12

[KirkB]

2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Time's confusing. You'd think that reality changing would mean history would be different. I guess this isn't an entirely new reality, after all, if they can go back in time to when they had the spear in the first place?

The impression I get, is that Thawne, Merlyn, Dark, Snart and Rory made changes they wanted, liking taking control of the Legends, getting their family and hand back, etc. and left everything else the same. So unless they wanted it to happen differently for some reason, it mostly happened the same way it did before. Some things obviously changed, like Felicity taking up a mask, but none of the Legion cared about her.

[kismet]

2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

So...Stein/Jax conflict may be a result of Doomworld, but I now fear that it's really going to affect their relationship going forward. I still see signs of Stein leaving the team. With the Spear becoming a reality changer, they could easily erase the existence of Firestorm to do it.

Evil Sara was fun, but did she sound different to anyone else? Like she was making her voice squeakier and perhaps a little stereotypically blonde with the hair twirling? 

I did notice that about Sara v. DoomSL. I did think that was a good acting choice by CL to play her more like well a bimbo :)

I do wonder what the consequences of the Stein/Jax conflict will be, but I refuse to accept that it means Stein is going to leave the show.

[Primal Slayer]

8 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'll be totally honest; I was waiting all episode for a Legend to die, since we know that they can just rewrite reality and have them brought back to life. So I wasn't surprised when Amaya was killed. I was more surprised in the brutal way that she was killed and the fact that she won't be brought back until next week. They definitely went dark there, especially with them following through with the destruction of the spear. Now the Legends have to go back in time to save reality and Amaya. I will be genuinely surprised if they can't bring her back. If that happens, then I'll probably feel more than I do now. I just feel confident that it's not permanent. 

Amaya is to important for them to not save. Her death would cause the entire present/future to change.

[Cthulhudrew]

Even though he's only been in about half of it so far, Rip is so much more entertaining and enjoyable to watch this season than last. 

[KirkB]

Sara was Dark's toy. Him making her a squeaky little bimbo who obeys his every whim sounds about right.

The thing is, if the show is planning to get rid of Firestorm, Stein HAS to be the one that leaves. Jax can survive with Stein. The opposite is not true.

Rip's situation was hilarious and sad at the same time.

[johntfs]

I loved Nate and Ray trying to persuade Evil Sara and Amaya.  Nate's "You and I had sex and we both liked it very much!" to Amaya was almost worth the somewhat tedious romance between them.

Edited April 1, 2017 by johntfs

[benteen]

1 hour ago, Lantern7 said:

 

I feel bad for Mick. He kept the group alive, and he gets smacked for that. He wanted to help his friend, but (this) Snart was a prick. He had to choose between the reset button and being regarded as a traitor and the Twilight Zone episode where the gangster dies and thinks he's in heaven.

 

YES!!!!!!  I thought about that episode too (A Nice Place to Visit) when I saw that scene and am thrilled that I'm not the only one.  Mick would be perfect for that episode.  Snart too.

Really good episode and the Legion of Doom just adds so much damn fun onto an already fun show.  Thawne has been great this season.  The alternate world was very interesting although I wish we could have seen more of Vigilante Felicity.  I can understand not trusting Mick after last week but the Legends still seem out of character with their refusal to trust him the week before.  Rip's situation is an interesting one.  One or two annoying things but otherwise, pretty damn good, dramatic and dark.

Edited March 29, 2017 by benteen

[tennisgurl]

20 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Evil Sara was fun, but did she sound different to anyone else? Like she was making her voice squeakier and perhaps a little stereotypically blonde with the hair twirling? 

She definitely was playing Evil Sara different than Real Sara, more of an evil, ditsy blond. As others said, it was probably Damien who made her like that. A lot of the DoomVerse versions of the Legends were different than their actual selves, either obviously (Jax being super growly and pissed off, while Stein is super twitchy and has a shaky voice) or more subtle (Sara and her bimbo voice, or the wide eyed dumbass voice Ray had going). It was all the LoD doing stuff that they knew the actual versions of them would hate, just for shits and giggles.

[Cthulhudrew]

I know they're just going to end up resetting all of this, but I must say- it would be an incredibly ballsy move to have this be the actual rewritten timeline from now on. 

A little disappointed to see that Thawne apparently didn't keep Cisco and Caitlin around in this reality (at least that we saw). I'd have thought he wanted to keep them on.

All the depth they gave the Legion kind of got tossed away to have them just become "Bwahahaaa" villains in the new reality, which is a bit of a shame. But once again, Mick proves to be the show's greatest asset in more ways than one. To think that Dominic's Heatwave was so one-dimensional when he first showed up in the Flash, and now he's at this point. "My little baby's all grows up."

[KirkB]

Thinking back to the masks, I'm a little surprised Thawne apparently let someone else kill Barry.

[Artsda]

While Mick did take the spear, Sara's "we trusted you" made me roll my eyes. No you didn't. At least Amaya believed in him. All the punching him was annoying. 

That Felicity cameo sure happened fast.

[Miss Dee]

I'm still kinda anxious Mick is going to sacrifice his life next week to save Amaya. They really hit home that he does love her, even if she's with Nate. He hasn't even punched Nate out for it. You know he's a smitten kitten. So I can't celebrate yet.

On the other hand, Leonard Snart treated him like a lapdog, basically told him he was too stupid to be without him, and then froze and smashed the woman he loved, WHILE STATING OUTRIGHT THAT HE KNEW MICK LOVED HER BEFORE SMASHING HER. Please God, assuming Mick actually lives, not even the Arrowverse writers can possibly believe that they can plausibly write Mick back into the Rogues after that...can they?? So I'm hopeful Mick does not have to suffer that indignity, at least.

*Sigh* Writers, do you remember that Ray and Mick were partners near the beginning of the season? That Mick has tried to have Ray's back no matter what since the fifth episode of Season 1? I am tempted to think that you don't, because watching Ray dismiss him along with everybody else just hurts. But there are three things that give me hope: 1) Other than Nate, who happened to be Johnny-on-the-spot, Ray was the first person Mick looked for (granted, he already knew where Amaya was). 2) The utter confidence and belief in his voice when he kept telling Janitor Ray that he knew Ray could fix this. 3) The writers had Ray looking after Mick's rat.

Other things I loved:

--The tension was unbelievable this episode.

--Nate's hair.

--"Because I'm an idiot." Purcell said that with the perfect amount of disbelief and resignation. ONE OF US, ONE OF US....

--Damn, Miller was chilling (no pun intended). He makes a good villian.

--The sandwich love. Please let this be a thing from now on. They chill at Nate's every nowand then to learn how to make perfect sandwiches.

--The falling lights on the wall in Star Labs looked like the green lines from The Matrix. As did the beginning when Overwatch was running away from the Legion. Clever, show.

--Cake Boss Rip. Damn, that was brilliant - really funny on the surface, but very creepy when you thought about it. And that ending! God, Eobard is a sadistic bastard.

--Axle! He has a name! You have no idea how happy I am that Mick still has the rat. I have a theory Mick can bear the loss of any human being right now without losing it, but the day that rat dies is the day he breaks and finally becomes human.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Miss Dee

[ElleMo]

2 hours ago, Jediknight said:

Come on show, there's no way Ray would just stand there and not stick up for Mick.  2 episodes in a row he's done that, and it goes completely against his character.

Stein saying he didn't want to see Jefferson again was a punch to the gut, he's the son Stein never had, and Stein is a second father to Jefferson.

The Buffy reference was great, and it was by somebody who was in an episode.

 

I missed the Buffy reference.  I assume something Snart said?  What did he say?

[Lokiberry]

Rip's epic Time Cake looked like the intro to Doctor Who.

Evil Snart was Evil. And much more of a bastard to Mick than he used to be.

I liked that the Legends kept ending up in Nate's mom's basement like the losers they are in this reality.

Too bad they never told us what Felicity's vigilante name was because now I'll never know if I was right about her being Spoiler.

3 minutes ago, ElleMo said:

I missed the Buffy reference.  I assume something Snart said?  What did he say?

"Bored now"

[Cthulhudrew]

1 hour ago, Lokiberry said:

Too bad they never told us what Felicity's vigilante name was because now I'll never know if I was right about her being Spoiler.

Her costume looked a bit like Huntress, at least onscreen. I recall seeing pics of it online and thinking it did kind of look like Spoiler, though.

[TaylorTheLatteBoy]

4 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

I know they're just going to end up resetting all of this, but I must say- it would be an incredibly ballsy move to have this be the actual rewritten timeline from now on.

It would be so ballsy, they'd have to cancel the other Arrowverse shows for it. ;-)

[ItCouldBeWorse]

5 hours ago, Ashand11 said:

Leave it to Jax to mess up shooting Stein. What was all of the diddie daddling about?

He had one job...seriously, if Sara could manage to pull the gun out while suspended in the air and shoot Amaya,  Jax should have been able to hit Stein.

Also, we're supposed to believe that Amaya just ran away before Sara was shot with Ray's gun?

Not sure I believe that Mick would have been able to identify which specific Aramaic words activated the Spear, but ok.

However, I thought the Spear could only be destroyed by blood? Or is that just the original option?

Could Damien have used his magic to grab the spear away from Eobard?

[yellowfred]

6 hours ago, squidprincess said:

I mean, we saw that Mick went to considerable efforts to get the team back.  But Sara didn't see that.  It's understandable that she doesn't know whether they can trust him.

Yeah, that last thing Sara remembers of Mick is handing him the spear for three seconds and him taking it to join the Legion (after which she apparently got to spend a year hunting down and killing a bunch of her friends).  So, yeah, she's perfectly justified in not trusting him.

Personally, I don't have a problem with no one standing up for Mick.  In all honesty, as much as I enjoy Mick, which I do, I could have done without his moping about the team not trusting him.  He betrayed them, and not in a small way.  You don't get to take credit for saving people when you're the one who put them in danger.  

1 hour ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Also, we're supposed to believe that Amaya just ran away before Sara was shot with Ray's gun?

Yeah, that was weird.  Did we even see her leave?  Like, she was suddenly just gone, for no reason.

Anyway, that big fight at the end really didn't work for me.  It felt like too many people were just standing around watching stuff happen, even though they could have been doing something.  Like, how did no one in the room see Snart pointing his gun at Amaya?  Why didn't anyone else try to pick up the spear after she dropped it?  Plus, isn't zombie!Zoom in a cell in that building?  Why didn't anyone think to break him out, since they all wanted to get rid of Eobard?  It just felt like it wasn't well thought out.

[kirinan]

8 hours ago, KirkB said:

The thing with Snart is, and it's easy to forget this, but in his first appearance on Flash he was a much darker character. He killed one of his partners because the guy messed up his plans, he killed the guy who gave him the cold gun, and he killed a guard just to distract Barry. He had little respect for anyone or anything besides himself. It was his later appearances, especially after they introduced his sister, that they started to humanize him. So while he may very well have been altered by the Legion, this was not so far removed from the guy he used to be.

I remember this, but I had managed to selectively forget it because they made him into such an interesting and layered character--as you said, once they brought his sister in. I'm going to go with what another poster mentioned, the thought that the LoD messed with his mind like they did Rip. Probably not so, but it allows me to get the bad taste out of my mouth for this version.

Edited March 29, 2017 by kirinan

[FurryFury]

Really loved the dig at Trump by making him the President in "the darkest timeline".

Lovely episode otherwise, although I'm really annoyed by Snart not interacting with ANY of the Legends except for Mick. It's like he wasn't part of the team. Why the hell would they bring him back at all only to treat like that?