S05.E03: The Midges

[Eulipian 5k]

11 hours ago, RedHawk said:

Two seasons ago I declared either that wallpaper had to go or I did. We're both still with the show. 

 Non-us Sequitur-us: Wasn't that Oscar Wilde's last words?

[Eulipian 5k]

I guess the couple that slays together , stays together. Liz and Phillip really are a brutal killing machine! In two instances this season they have pronounced and carried out death sentences with just a glance. They were both in lockstep.

When they replied to Gabriel "We'll be in Oklahoma" it was clear they were going there to KILL something or somebody.

However, in their "defense", they are both enraged about the idea of poisoned grain and that clouds their judgement even to the point of feeling that this is a "good mission" to tell Paige about. Even though they know they will surely have to kill to stop the US "plot".

[RedHawk]

17 hours ago, ptuscadero said:

I can relate. I immediately flashed back to Commander Salamander when I heard it.   ;-)

Speaking of Commander Salamander, I totally expect Henry to come in some day wearing a Dead Kennedys t-shirt, a pair of Doc Martens, and an X on the back of his hand.

Edited March 22, 2017 by RedHawk

[Sarah 103]

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I'm with everyone else with my "MARTHA!!!!" reaction. I was wondering why we were focusing so long on this random woman, and then Martha! What a great surprise! Maybe we will see her again and see how she is doing in the USSR, or maybe we were just checking in on her to show us that she made it to Moscow, either way works for me. I would be happy with seeing more Martha, but if this is the last time we see her, I'm alright with that. It looks like she is living her life, but isn't very happy. Going from supermarkets in DC to supermarkets in the USSR must be a hell of a transition.

I love how almost everyone seems to have had the same reaction of shock and excitment at seeing Martha alive. It's also a great tease for the audience, because now that we know she's alive that means there's the potential to see her again. It lets the audience play a guessing game/debate whether or not we'll see her again. 

3 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Oleg is still all kinds of sexy. Nobody looks as good as him walking down the street in a billowing black boat looking troubled. The poor guy knows how he screwed he is, and where this is all probably going to end up, but he is still trying to do his job damn it! I give him props for actually trying to do his job and make the system run smoother all the while having this giant cloud over his head. I don't think he cared what the woman was up to, he is just trying to figure out who her connection is. I'm not sure what exactly his plan is, but I hope he gets to do something good before he gets his one way trip to the gulag.

100% Yes! He's got this whole troubled brooding weight of the world on his shoulders thing going on, and he's still incredibly attractive. My guess is that Oleg may take refuge in his work. He may be the type to put all of his troubles aside and focus on work as an escape. Also, maybe he hopes he will find something during his investigation that will give him leverage/an ace in the hole. I agree that Oleg isn't after the store manager, but instead is trying to use her to get to bigger fish. I'm not as convinced as others are that his story will end with him in the gulag. 

3 hours ago, Dev F said:

And really that's just the impression he's trying to convey to the market manager, since who he's actually after are the Party bigwigs who are entangled in the scheme. But admitting that would amount to an acknowledgment that he's not just a humble Food Police agent but an actual member of the KGB.

Agreed. What Oleg is doing reminds me of the way law enforcement agencies in this country go after drug kingpins or organized crime. They try to build the case step by step and go up as any many levels as they can to ultimatley capture and punish the highest ranking member of the organization that they can. 

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I'm not sure if it was Clarke's landlord or the people from Martha's building, but, it seems like there was a sketch.  They also discovered that the ID of Clarke was a dead man, right?

That sounds right to me. My guess is that for Stan it's a low priority investigation and on the back burner for now. 

[Umbelina]

17 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Personally, I think never if you're Philip. The kids grow up and have lives of their own. I don't think he'd sacrifice the kids for her sake, but then neither would she want the kids sacrificed. He's faced this choice multiple times on the show and each time it seems he chooses Elizabeth without having to think about it.

Misha will change all of that.  That's one of his kids that he can't just "take back to Russia" if/when they are burned.  I think Misha will put the focus for Philip where it belongs, not on his great love, but on his children, and what going to Russia will do to them.  It's a good sign, for me anyway, that this resolve or ending will come down to the relationship vs mother Russia, instead of Paige.

--

They told Paige about this particular operation because it was one where they could wear (literally as it turns out) the white cowboy hat, and be the good guys.   I loved that when it backfired and they murdered an innocent scientist Philip said something like "should we tell her about this too?

[minamurray78]

17 hours ago, willco said:

I've often wondered why Elizabeth fights so hard to defend Russia. I know that's her home country and all, but is it so terrible here in the U.S. ? Life is pretty nice compared to what she grew up with. Maybe they explained this sometime in the past, but I don't remember.

 

6 hours ago, chick binewski said:

I have always found Elizabeth's point of view to be the most maddening part of this show. If her unwavering devotion to her country is due to her being a forever true believer as @Umbelina stated, I'm not sure how the show could do it but I'd love to see it addressed in some sort of way where we could understand it better.     

It was in season 2, that episode where Phillip buys the flashy car, when he's asking E if she really didn't enjoy the electricity, food, her shoes, etc. And she was all about how there were people in the streets 5' away from were they lived and how it was all a cover for their work, and he insist:

P: "Do you like it?"

E:"You know how I grew up. It's nicer here, easier. It's not better."

And I think that really tells you a lot about her and how strong her ideals are. I think she would have no problem going back to the USSR and adapting to getting in line for food, and living in cramped quarters, because she despises the american capitalist way, and even if in her country there's also corruption above, she still believes it's a better system and worth it. She was mad about Pasha's father complainig about being in line for hours to get food, because he was old enough to remember when there was no food to get in line for, whereas Phillip is questioning WHY you gotta get in line, and there's still not enough, considering the land they have.

But I also wonder how much bullshit they are being fed by the center. In season 2, the handler told them that, according to a source, the navy was planting hundreds of fake plans all over, one of which made its way to the motherland, and was responsible for a catastrophic failure in a propeller and the death of a 160 russians. Phillip felt responsible and Elizabeth was seething (which I thought was hypocritical of her, like sure, the US were monsters for planting fake plans knowing the russians would go after them how dare they). But later Oleg told Arkady that what was not being said, was that the gov put that propeller in a smaller submarine than it had been designed for, and they only tested it for 3 weeks rather than the 5 months they should have.

So yeah, we are right to doubt this whole crop business. And I abhor their mentallity, that makes them want to kill Alexei, not just for his apparent involvement in some yet-to-be-proven conspiracy, but also just for leaving and ill-speaking about his life in Russia, because how dare he have an opinion different than theirs, and be "ungrateful" to have something to wait in line for, and try to live his life in whatever place and whatever manner he sees fit.

Also, the blond store manager was the cousin of Tony Soprano's grilfriend Irina, though they did have a one night stand. Svetlana was a great character.

Edited March 22, 2017 by minamurray78

[Quando]

I liked the scene with Phillip and Elizabeth in the hotel room when she puts on his cowboy hat.  The lighting in that scene was particularly good.  It had a real Urban Cowboy feel to it.  I almost expected the Johnny Lee ballad Lookin' for Love to start playing.  

[sistermagpie]

14 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Misha will change all of that.  That's one of his kids that he can't just "take back to Russia" if/when they are burned.  I think Misha will put the focus for Philip where it belongs, not on his great love, but on his children, and what going to Russia will do to them.  It's a good sign, for me anyway, that this resolve or ending will come down to the relationship vs mother Russia, instead of Paige.

 

Pure speculation, but I find myself imagining the Mischa situation doing that for Elizabeth. If they know he's on his way, the Centre might tell Elizabeth about it and not Philip because they don't trust him. Then Elizabeth would have to choose between the relationship and Mother Russia, and I'm not so sure she'd choose Mother Russia, being a mother herself. It might take her a while, but if she lied about this to Philip it would fundamentally change their relationship. It would go back to the stuff in this ep where Elizabeth explains about how you always hold something back in relationships and you don't want to "burden" people with information. All of Elizabeth's beliefs would tell her to side with the Centre, but it's hard for me to imagine her living with the loneliness of cutting herself off from Philip that way. Back in S2 she talked about wanting to be able to be there for him the way he was for her because she'd never really done that in the past. She's really never had to do it, still. 

I think Philip's desire for Mischa, if he meets up with him, would be to send him somewhere safe. He's a grown man that Philip's never been responsible for, so he'd probably feel good getting at least one kid into a life of his own. And he can't have him in his life as Philip Jennings since that would endanger his own family.) I think that was always his hope for the kids he had, that they would grow up and have their own lives in the US, whatever happened to him. (Still seems like a better parent than the kids' mother. Just hearing her referred to made me annoyed all over again.)

But yeah, of course Philip would take Mischa's side against the state, no question. And I think he'd secretly try to hide him and get him to safety away from the Centre if he showed up, which would certainly be going against orders, but there's no way Philip would do anything else. Maybe he'll use one of Pastor Tim's trips to get him away somewhere.

Edited March 22, 2017 by sistermagpie

[Umbelina]

6 hours ago, Gabrielle Tracy said:

I mean this in the nicest, most loving way possible, but you are one sick pup Umbelina! ;)

I wish I could find the exact artwork, but this is one of them.  ;)  Those kinky Disney employees...

 

Poor Oleg, I'm just so glad he's on screen and not in a Russian or American prison.

@sistermagpie

Oh wow, I love that idea of Elizabeth being faced with the choice because of Misha.  It makes more sense, we know what Philip would do, it would be so much better to have Elizabeth faced with those choices.  I'm sure Paige and Henry's well being would be part of it, but her doing it, giving that to Philip?  It could be wonderful.

That would be much better, if Elizabeth was the one to side with her spouse for once, instead of the other way around.  My mind immediately went to:  She dies protecting Misha for Philip.  That seems much too complicated, and a bit melodramatic, but this show could pull it off in a subtle way.  Philip continually chooses Elizabeth, over his heart, his guts, and even their kids.  It's tearing him apart, "I feel sick ALL the time" or whatever it was he answered.  It would be so wonderful if just once, when it really came down to it, Elizabeth sacrificed for him for a change.  Bittersweet, but still...

Edited March 22, 2017 by Umbelina

[Trillian]

36 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

They told Paige about this particular operation because it was one where they could wear (literally as it turns out) the white cowboy hat, and be the good guys.   I loved that when it backfired and they murdered an innocent scientist Philip said something like "should we tell her about this too?

Even if I didn't agree with the sentiment, this would've deserved the like for the hilarious - and grammatically correct - use of the word "literally"!

[RedHawk]

8 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

2. I thought that Alexei shared part of his pain from childhood with P & E about his father's imprisonment and treatment.  It seemed to go right over their heads. I noticed they didn't share this story with Tuan.  This man sure is very vocal with his anti-Russian sentiments.  Wouldn't you think that he'd be a little afraid of that? If Russia is that horrible, wouldn't they send people to address him? Is he that naive?  

Except it seemed to bring back a hidden or repressed memory for Philip, that of being with his mother, a brother?, and seemingly his father coming to his mother with pants to be mended. Child Philip was very young, and maybe had not before remembered anything about his father. I think these interactions with Alexi will be very important for Philip's evolving disillusionment with Soviet life.

[Umbelina]

6 hours ago, Bannon said:

Presumably, for research purposes, there are exceptions, but it is problematic that a pest with such economically devastating potential would not be handled any more carefully than what was shown last week at the greenhouse, or even this week at the office. Hell, just a typical Illinois thunderstorm means the entire American wheat industry suffers massive losses. The writing is just sloppy.

The greenhouse could have just had regular midges from the USA though, which also destroy wheat, but didn't come from Australia.  It's pretty easy for me to imagine that US scientists (and others around the world) were trying to find a way to control/obliterate the midges.  The Australian imports could simply be part of that study.  There was also some Australia/Africa connection about the Aussie ones, so perhaps our tight connections with South Africa at the time was the reason for studying them, or one of those "if we find a way to kill this kind, or change their behavior, we can find a way to kill this other kind" type of research.  The Kansas lab looked pretty secure.

6 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

If they weren't so damn sloppy, they wouldn't have left a trail full of bodies.   P & E should have been caught by now.  Given the brutality of the way they have killed people, doesn't take away from their sloppiness.

 

That's the only part of this show I just have to accept.  For dramatic purposes, Philip and Elizabeth do all this spy shit that the KGB would NEVER have them do, it's much too big a risk for these valuable agents.  A KGB break in team would handle routine crap like that, not deeply embedded spies.  (Ditto the mail robot operation, etc.)  There is no need for perfect American accents and deep cover on B & E's.  AT ALL.  Routine hits like the guy under the car?  Same deal.  Arkady's agents would handle simple hits.

[Umbelina]

Let's put this together.

Philip is from Siberia.  His flashback showed a filthy, near hut, weren't the floors even dirt?  It seemed like it.  From his age, this would  have been sometime in the 1940s. 

What do we know about Siberia, oh yeah!  Labor camps!  Gulags!  It's been place of imprisonment and banishment for centuries.  Logging and lumber work were part of the prison work in several areas.

Quote

Almost as soon as Siberia was first colonised by Cossack conquistadors in the 17th century, it became a place of banishment and punishment. As early as the 1690s the Russian state began to use Siberia as a dumping ground for its criminals, as though its vastness could quarantine evil.  https://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/07/siberia-always-a-byword-for-despotism/

If Philip's dad were a guard, he would have a uniform, not those torn pants that looked like they wouldn't fit, given to his wife or mother to try to mend. 

So maybe Philip's dad was a prisoner?  Or had been, and like many, simply never left?  Prison accommodations could explain the condition of his home.  Or perhaps Philip's grandfather had been imprisoned, had his family there after release (or brought them with him) and Philip's dad just stayed on as a laborer?  All that dirt was there for a reason.

Anyone?  Just trying to put things together...

Edited March 22, 2017 by Umbelina

[SunnyBeBe]

29 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

Except it seemed to bring back a hidden or repressed memory for Philip, that of being with his mother, a brother?, and seemingly his father coming to his mother with pants to be mended. Child Philip was very young, and maybe had not before remembered anything about his father. I think these interactions with Alexi will be very important for Philip's evolving disillusionment with Soviet life.

Maybe so.  Did I read it on this thread or site that Philip's family shared one pair of pants?  That's pretty poor.  How would the viewer know this?  Was it the way they were handling the pants in the scene?  What was that knocking sound in the background?

Edited March 22, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[Anela]

19 hours ago, Umbelina said:

 

Anyone here not scream "MARTHA!" when we got that little clip?

I'm ashamed to say that I'd forgotten her name. I thought, "Oh! It's, um..."

three minutes later: "...Martha!!!" 

I'm also tired of Elizabeth manipulating Philip, sexually. 

[RedHawk]

12 hours ago, zibnchy said:

It sort of felt to me like the camera lingered on her just a bit and I thought it was odd when Phillip came over to check on her. Has he done that so deliberately before? Maybe we'll see her again. Maybe not. I thought we'd see Kimmie again and she's probably of age by now.

Does Stan seem more smug this season? It seems like he constantly has that smirk on his face. I'm ready for Stan to die. But I want him to find out about Phillip and Elizabeth right before Elizabeth dispatches him.

More Martha!

I read Philip going to that woman in the car as acknowledging to her that her signal had tipped them to the scientist coming into the lab, and that unfortunately they now had to leave a dead body for her to dispose of. Sort of a "thank you and sorry about this" in one brief silent scene. Sucks to be her, ugh.

[jrlr]

2 hours ago, RedHawk said:

Speaking of Commander Salamander, I totally expect Henry to come in some day wearing a Dead Kennedys t-shirt, a pair of Doc Martens, and an X on the back of his hand.

Funny image and a great idea!  And it would give P&E a reason to send him off to some wilderness private school for troubled youth - and then we'd never have to have an explanation for his slide into on-screen invisibility.

[RedHawk]

7 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Philip is from Tobolsk in Siberia. He said his father was a logger, fwiw.

There was another kid in that scene--not sure if it was a communal space or a kid he was related to. Until we know better I'll just assume they ate him. :-)

Also it seems significant that they had Philip's father *not* die in the war--but die not long afterwards.

I suddenly thought maybe the pants belonged to someone Philip's father worked with who had died that day of starvation or perhaps an accident. He may have acquired the dead man's pants while someone else got his shirt, another got shoes, etc. 

[scrb]

20 hours ago, Tetraneutron said:

Does anyone else expect (no spoilers, just a theory) that this grain sabotage plotline will be the first where the Soviets are completely in the wrong? P and E do everything the do, get Paige involved, and it turns out it was all for nothing? In the real world, there was no US plot to contaminate grain, as far as I know. 

No they thought when Reagan got assassinated, the US military (Al Haig saying he's in charge) would take over and possibly attack the USSR.

They show the Jennings as being steeped in American culture but they still think like the paranoid Soviets.  You would think they'd push back on some of the missions if they thought the premise they based those missions on didn't match what they saw, living in America.  But they're still loyal.

As soon as Randy figured out someone had disturbed some of the bugs, leaving them in an excited state, he was dead meat.  They weren't planning to confront a worker there but once they did, he was gone.

The thing is, if that midge comes from Australia, it probably doesn't survive US or Russian winters.  So it may not make sense that Americans are researching it either as a weapon or as a way to make crops more resistant to pests.

Edited March 22, 2017 by scrb

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Let's put this together.

This sentence gave me such a thrill. I love trying to put this together!! And you can see they're doling out his backstory in little puzzle pieces intentionally. Stuff dropped in in earlier seasons is explained later.

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

If Philip's dad were a guard, he would have a uniform, not those torn pants that looked like they wouldn't fit, given to his wife or mother to try to mend. 

 

2 hours ago, RedHawk said:

Except it seemed to bring back a hidden or repressed memory for Philip, that of being with his mother, a brother?, and seemingly his father coming to his mother with pants to be mended. Child Philip was very young, and maybe had not before remembered anything about his father.

He did say his dad was a logger to Paige. And he also had that weighted (seemingly) line to Paige where he specifically described him, saying in response to her asking if he liked Tobolsk that there were things there that he liked, but his father worked very hard and when he came home he was...tired. It seemed like he had very strong memories of his father in some way, despite the guying when he was 6. It's also one of the only true things about himself--the first true thing about himself--he blurted out with emotion to the kids, back when Paige complained about not having a family and he angrily said his father died when he was 6 so who was she to complain about not having family when she had parents and a brother? That's a direct mirror of Tuan talking about Pasha and his father.

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Maybe so.  Did I read it on this thread or site that Philip's family shared one pair of pants?  That's pretty poor.  How would the viewer know this?  Was it the way they were handling the pants in the scene?  What was that knocking sound in the background?

How would a family share pants? LOL! I don't think that was suggested. (Now I'm thinking of Monty Python "We were evicted from our hole in the ground...we had to go and live in a lake!") It would make sense if they were someone's pants he inherited, I think. There would be some reason Philip remembered his father handing over the pants, even if it's not about the pants entirely. Remember when Elizabeth remembered her mother telling her her father was a traitor she claimed she was remembering this blue dress her mother used to wear.

I wondered about the knocking too--was it the older kid hammering something?

ETA: I checked it--yes, the older kid puts something on the thing in front of him, looks like an overturned step tool type thing, and he's hammering at it. Philip seems to be playing with a toy airplane that's been woven together out of sticks--maybe his father did that. They have curtains on the windows but the walls make it almost look like an abandoned building.

That scene also made me think of this very famous picture: https://www.flickr.com/photos/32357038@N08/3820123891

Because reading about the history of it, the academy that judged paintings had some disagreement about whether to make the artist change it because the floor in the painting doesn't follow the rules of Soviet Art. The floor's broken. You're not supposed to show Soviet life as having flaws like cracked floors! Luckily the whole committee didn't agree so it stayed broken. But I thought Philip's house looked like it might have a floor like that. Although the house in the painting looks far happier than Philip's place.

It also makes me think how it seemed like in the other flashback they gave the kid playing Philip some shadows under his eyes for the same haunted, underfed/underslept look he has here.

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

Oh wow, I love that idea of Elizabeth being faced with the choice because of Misha. 

More on that in the Elizabeth thread...

 

1 hour ago, scrb said:

They show the Jennings as being steeped in American culture but they still think like the paranoid Soviets.  You would think they'd push back on some of the missions if they thought the premise they based those missions on didn't match what they saw, living in America.  But they're still loyal.

Philip didn't ever buy the military coup theory. That's why they didn't tell the Centre about Haig--they did push back. And Elizabeth trusted Philip's take on it. But with this I think it hits too emotionally close to him. It's not about culture it's about food insecurity. He didn't think it was something the US would do, but he knows hunger as a reality that could always happen again.

Edited March 23, 2017 by sistermagpie

[RedHawk]

28 minutes ago, jrlr said:

Funny image and a great idea!  And it would give P&E a reason to send him off to some wilderness private school for troubled youth - and then we'd never have to have an explanation for his slide into on-screen invisibility.

I want very much for Henry to have a role on the show and I think we'll get around to that story line eventually. They did a lot of building up of the buddy relationship with Stan and I think that will go somewhere. All this "he's not here" will likely pay off as well.

If the writers really don't think viewers can deal with Tall Henry, then why do they keep expecting us to believe that trees are full of autumn leaves in February? Sure, it might look weird that he's taller than both Paige and Matthew, but some boys really do shoot up that way. They did manage to hide that Keri Russell was pregnant last season and a few more camera tricks and/or one throwaway line from Philip to Stan: "What are you feeding my kid, Stan, that he's suddenly a giant? Does that boxed mac and cheese have growth hormones in it or something?" would be enough for most faithful fans.

[Umbelina]

The more I think about it, it just makes sense that Philip's dad was in a forced labor camp (gulag.) 

He's said in past episodes that his father was "working all the time, always exhausted," so he rarely saw him, a "logger."  Logging was part of the forced labor camps. 

Quote

However, to one degree or another, the large majority of prisoners at most times faced meager food rations, inadequate clothing, overcrowding, poorly insulated housing, poor hygiene, and inadequate health care. Most prisoners were compelled to perform harsh physical labor.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulag

More stuff in here makes it all make sense, especially when you skip to the WII and just prior and just after situations at the camps.  Starvation, exhaustion, and you really didn't need to do much to be thrown into one, since it was being used as cheap labor and when they died or needed more, people were rounded up easily on one pretense or another. 

Then we have, (was it William?) who was talking about "the camps" or was it someone where Nina was imprisoned?  Anyway, someone on this show said that people imprisoned in the camps often just stayed on after their sentences, too exhausted to move on or start over, living in their little hovels.  Something like that.

That would explain the existence of a family.

I dunno, there's been more said, but it makes since, after seeing the filth and despair, exhaustion, just all of it, that somehow, the Gulags are involved. 

[RedHawk]

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I'm with everyone else with my "MARTHA!!!!" reaction. I was wondering why we were focusing so long on this random woman, and then Martha! What a great surprise! Maybe we will see her again and see how she is doing in the USSR, or maybe we were just checking in on her to show us that she made it to Moscow, either way works for me. I would be happy with seeing more Martha, but if this is the last time we see her, I'm alright with that. It looks like she is living her life, but isn't very happy. Going from supermarkets in DC to supermarkets in the USSR must be a hell of a transition.

The comments about Martha being shocked going from DC supermarkets to those in the USSR give me a little chuckle. Of course, she really would have been shocked, and she sure didn't look happy with her choices of merchandise on those shelves. I laugh because in DC we have the Safeway chain of grocery stores and back in the late '70s or early '80s each one was given an alliterative nickname based on location and/or an identifying characteristic of the store. One of the best-known nicknames was for the one at 17th and Corcoran Streets, which was called the "Soviet Safeway" because it was small and the shelves were so sparsely stocked! I think Martha lived in Georgetown so likely shopped the Social Safeway, named for the upper-crust NW DC types who shopped and socialized there in their cashmere sweaters and pearls. 

For more nicknames https://markovthoughtchain.wordpress.com/2010/05/22/safeway-nicknames-in-the-dc-area/

Edited March 23, 2017 by RedHawk

[RedHawk]

11 hours ago, GussieK said:

Interesting that most places didn't have as many security cameras back then as we do now.  If so, that body could not have disappeared unobserved.  So this guy will disappear with no one realizing where he went at first.

I thought the same thing about how we now have security cameras everywhere so that so much of this show's events wouldn't be possible now. The parking lot would have cameras and the building entrances and hallways and likely even that lab would have cameras inside it. 

The guy may have had a wife or girlfriend or parent who he specifically told "I'm going to the lab." Whether he got there or not, it would be up to investigators to try to figure out. Foul play or did he just run off? I thought the car his body was dumped into was his car, right? So the lady watching the parking lot (and the black male lookout) would have to get rid of car and body.

I also thought once again of cell phones and how they've changed our lives and communication, especially parents with children, and spouses with each other. "Where's Henry?" "I'm not sure, text him it's time to come home." Perhaps in today's world P&E would have "trained" Paige and Henry not to expect to be in electronic contact with their parents all the time like most kids are, but a 14-year-old kid just being off on his own and parents shrugging about his whereabouts would be very unusual. Other parents have called Social Services for less!

Edited March 23, 2017 by RedHawk

[stagmania]

I'd just like to state for the record that I really resent this show moving to Tuesday nights, thus making it nearly impossible for me to watch in a timely manner. And with that, I'm off to catch up on four pages of comments.

(Martha!)

[Umbelina]

I'd love to hear from some of our people with Russian parents on the subject of reactions to American supermarkets.

I've gone in with Russians twice.  One, a Jewish wife during the early release in the seventies of some Jewish "refusnicks."  *Maybe she was traded with her scientist husband for poor Anton Baklanov! 

Anyway, she had been too afraid to go out of their apartment in San Jose Ca at all, she hadn't even talked to another American that wasn't involved in their relocation, until I arranged to meet her because I missed speaking Russian.  Anyway, we became friends of a sort, especially after I helped them out with the Russian Embassy *scary to think of that now!  So, eventually, her husband and I convinced her to go to the store which was very close, within walking distance.  Her reaction was being completely overwhelmed, disbelieving, and a little bit, I don't know what you'd call it, resentful or frustrated at the abundance, she was so worried, about dealing with money, about being followed, she didn't seem at all happy to have so much from which to choose.

The other time was with my escapee friend, who, since he lived in a small town in Alaska for a few years before we met personally, was at least used to that kind of shopping.  Still, he decided he was going to make me a traditional Russian meal (stuffed cabbage, some other things) and we went to the VERY large supermarket in Santa Cruz.  At first he just set about shopping for his ingredients, but at one point he just stopped and looked around, mumbled something like "so much..."  Then he immediately launched into mushrooms, and that we didn't have many choices, and fond memories of collecting all kinds of mushrooms in the woods, their flavor, the fun of collecting...missing Russia. 

So, with Martha, we get to see the opposite of that, acceptance, resignation, but still unhappiness at the sparse selection, and maybe a little bit of trying to see what a can contained.  I noticed she only had one small can in her basket too.  She seemed to be trying to understand the labels too, and put one back, so maybe she's learned a bit of Russian?  Oh!  The other thing, I didn't realize they had lists and limits about what they were allowed to buy until I watched that You Tube.  Anyone know how often those lists were provided?  Monthly or yearly, based on how many in the family I assume.  How did they track what they'd already bought from their lists at the stores?  Or did the list remain the same regardless of the shopping day?

Edited March 23, 2017 by Umbelina

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

The Americans Go Hunting Bugs Sooner Than Expected

'SOONER.' (They go to Oklahoma.)

[RedHawk]

21 hours ago, Umbelina said:

So, eventually, her husband and I convinced her to go to the store which was very close, within walking distance.  Her reaction was being completely overwhelmed, disbelieving, and a little bit, I don't know what you'd call it, resentful or frustrated at the abundance, she was so worried, about dealing with money, about being followed, she didn't seem at all happy to have so much from which to choose.

I studied Russian in the early '80s and remember my professor describing how Russians who came to the U.S. had that reaction of being shocked and overwhelmed by the abundance or our grocery stores. I can understand the woman's worry and mixed emotions -- perhaps there was a guilt and fear because she thought something along the lines "I am not supposed to be here, at this type of store that has so much, maybe someone will think I did something wrong to be allowed to shop here."

The reverse of that, and how I imagine what Martha feels, is when I've gone into old, very small grocery stores in Appalachian towns where I grew up. Dusty shelves, little variety, strange brands of canned goods, a few sad packs of meat, can only buy white bread, and everything way overpriced.

Years later, early '90s, I went to a brand new super-sized grocery store in the close-in suburbs of a nearby large city and was myself amazed at the size, abundance, and variety. The stores in the small city where I lived were just fine but this one was HUGE and SHINY NEW with fancy displays and a butcher shop and bakery and so on and so on. I honestly thought, "Geez, I really get how someone from Russia feels now." Of course, I was exaggerating, but it did strike me as wonderful but also as a bit too much and yes, overwhelming.

I don't quite get why Alexi's wife is so unhappy, other than because Pasha is unhappy and of course that would matter most to her. Given that all we heard about in the '70s and '80s was the Russian young people's hunger for Levi's jeans (and "pictures of James Dean" -- anyone know that song?), rock'n'roll music, McDonald's hamburgers, etc. I'm a little unconvinced that Pasha truly thinks it would be better to return to the USSR. I get that the family were privileged there and so he had more than the typical Soviet teen, but still... ok, teenage angst, language difficulties, sure sure, but hey, have a Coke and a smile, Pasha! 

I'm starting to think that P&E should recruit Paige to play the Eckert's "niece" and set her up with Pasha. A pretty American girlfriend might cure him and get him to open up. He's much cuter than Matthew, too.

Edited March 23, 2017 by RedHawk
Added a bit

[shura]

1 hour ago, sistermagpie said:

How would a family share pants? LOL! I don't think that was suggested. (Now I'm thinking of Monty Python "We were evicted from our hole in the ground...we had to go and live in a lake!") It would make sense if they were someone's pants he inherited, I think.

Or he needed to return them, slipped and fell in the mud. Ruining the very pants he was about to return.

[dubbel zout]

One of my uncles was a scientist who was involved in some joint experiments/projects with some Soviet scientists. There were some exchanges when my aunt and uncle went to Russia and the Russian scientists came to the U.S. The first time my aunt took the Russians to an American supermarket, they cried. They couldn't believe the abundance of goods.

Edited March 23, 2017 by dubbel zout

[Dev F]

1 hour ago, RedHawk said:

I want very much for Henry to have a role on the show and I think we'll get around to that story line eventually. They did a lot of building up of the buddy relationship with Stan and I think that will go somewhere. All this "he's not here" will likely pay off as well.

I wonder if the idea is to get us and the characters used to Henry never being around, so that it'll be a particular shock when he walks in on them doing something hugely incriminating. (I doubt P&E are foolish enough to just let their guard down, but I could see Paige slipping up at an inopportune moment, and her parents have been relying on her word more and more when determining whether it's safe to talk.)

Edited March 23, 2017 by Dev F

[JennyMominFL]

I can't be the only one who has seen the grocery store scene in Deutschland 83, can I? And I hate to admit to watching this, but I watch 90 day fiance and one of the wives was from Russia and she nearly cried because she was overwhelmed in the grocery store. She thought it was ridiculous how many variants of food we have. I want to see Philip's other son's reaction

[gwhh]

8 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I'm with everyone else with my "MARTHA!!!!" reaction. I was wondering why we were focusing so long on this random woman, and then Martha! What a great surprise! Maybe we will see her again and see how she is doing in the USSR, or maybe we were just checking in on her to show us that she made it to Moscow, either way works for me. I would be happy with seeing more Martha, but if this is the last time we see her, I'm alright with that. It looks like she is living her life, but isn't very happy. Going from supermarkets in DC to supermarkets in the USSR must be a hell of a transition.

You know, I totally get why Alexei keeps going on about how much the USSR sucks. He is getting all this off his chest for the first time, and he certainly has a lot to complain about. However, I do get why his family (especially the son) are irritated with him. Does he ALWAYS bring it back to complaining about Russia? When he was talking about bowling, I was surprised to hear him actually talking about a good memory from his homeland...then of course he started complaining again. He certainly has a lot to complain about, but living with that all the time? Its like having a Russian Debbie Downer around constantly.

I don't think Elizabeth is a sociopath, so much as she is so obsessed with her cause, that it allows her to justify anything she does to herself. I think she still considers the US to be a big opulent country filled with babies (not everyone, but a lot of them) who want nothing more than to see her homeland wiped off the face of the Earth. So when someone tells her that the US is planning a Big Evil Plot to starve her people, she can immediately start justifying killing a guy or two. She is capable of empathy towards others, and she's capable of love or care for other people, its just that she has such tunnel vision that she just goes with whatever she's told to do against the US. Philip is still on Team KGB, but he questions things a lot more. In this episode, he actually listened to Alexei and his complaints, and while he still thinks the guy is a traitor, he was still like "You know, the guy does have a few decent points..."and wondering why the USSR cant just make their own damn food for their own people. I don't know if Elizabeth was working Philip on purpose, but I think it might have been there somewhere. She has always kind of worried about Philips commitment, even though I do think she loves him as much as she is capable of loving a person not her kids or the USSR. She wants to keep that spark in Philip pushed down as much as possible, because I think she is concerned about what could happen if he ever does turn. Would she be able to kill him? I think she could, but it would REALLY hurt for her.

Oleg is still all kinds of sexy. Nobody looks as good as him walking down the street in a billowing black boat looking troubled. The poor guy knows how he screwed he is, and where this is all probably going to end up, but he is still trying to do his job damn it! I give him props for actually trying to do his job and make the system run smoother all the while having this giant cloud over his head. I don't think he cared what the woman was up to, he is just trying to figure out who her connection is. I'm not sure what exactly his plan is, but I hope he gets to do something good before he gets his one way trip to the gulag.

Very well put.  I agree with all your points. 

Edited March 23, 2017 by gwhh

[Sarah 103]

3 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I think Philip's desire for Mischa, if he meets up with him, would be to send him somewhere safe. He's a grown man that Philip's never been responsible for, so he'd probably feel good getting at least one kid into a life of his own. And he can't have him in his life as Philip Jennings since that would endanger his own family.) I think that was always his hope for the kids he had, that they would grow up and have their own lives in the US, whatever happened to him.

I like this theory. Mischa could be hidden someplace, and then gets a new life and starts over in the U.S. What does Mischa expect when he arrives? Does he want to meet his father or have a long term relationship? Does he have any idea who his father really is? 

2 hours ago, Umbelina said:

So maybe Philip's dad was a prisoner?  Or had been, and like many, simply never left?  Prison accommodations could explain the condition of his home.  Or perhaps Philip's grandfather had been imprisoned, had his family there after release (or brought them with him) and Philip's dad just stayed on as a laborer?  All that dirt was there for a reason.

It's an intersting theory, but could you clarify a few parts for me? If it's a prison, how would he bring his family with him? Were there towns on the outskirts/outside the prison where the families of prisoners would live in order to be close? 

53 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

I thought the same thing about how we now have security cameras everywhere so that so much of this show's events wouldn't be possible now. The parking lot would have cameras and the building entrances and hallways and likely even that lab would have cameras inside it. 
 

The cameras are connected to something, so they'd just hack the cameras or the computer the recordings are sent to. 

53 minutes ago, RedHawk said:

I also thought once again of cell phones and how they've changed our lives and communication, especially parents with children, and spouses with each other. "Where's Henry?" "I'm not sure, text him it's time to come home." Perhaps in today's world P&E would have "trained" Paige and Henry not to expect to be in electronic contact with their parents all the time like most kids are, but a 14-year-old kid just being off on his own and parents shrugging about his whereabouts would be very unusual. Other parents have called Social Services for less!

Modern day, I don't know how often kids text parents, especially those that are Paige and Henry's age. I imagine it would be mostly along the lines of, please pick us up at the mall, sports practice is cancelled, can you pick me up early and variations on that. I like your theory that Philip and Elizabeth would have told thier kids not to bother them unless it's an absolute emergency. The part with Paige and Henry is the one that would be the most difficult to pull off if they set the show modern day. 

Edited March 23, 2017 by Sarah 103

[stagmania]

Am I the only one who thought that Elizabeth was comforting Phillip in that hotel scene, not manipulating him? I don't really understand the need to read dastardly intentions into every single thing she does. She loves Phillip. He was troubled, and she had no reassurances to offer. So she did a totally normal thing that happens in all relationships and tried to distract him from his troubles with a little romance. I thought it was a nice scene.

As a few others have mentioned (I had all your lovely posts quoted and then lost them, dammit), Elizabeth absolutely has real feelings and cares deeply about her family and her cause. I've never believed that Elizabeth is sociopathic, and I don't think what we've seen on the show really supports that idea. She had a whole arc last season where she was struggling to deal with her emotions and creeping doubts. Her cause, while hard for many of us to understand or support, means a great deal to her and inspires real feeling. That makes her sympathetic to me, even if I do sometimes get frustrated that she doesn't question things as much as Phillip does. Really intrigued by @sistermagpie's idea about what Mischa's appearance could bring out in her (which I agree is a more interesting question than what it would inspire in Phillip).

On the issue of the realism of this pests plot, did everyone see this article today about the real life inspiration? 

[Auntie Anxiety]

15 minutes ago, JennyMominFL said:

I can't be the only one who has seen the grocery store scene in Deutschland 83, can I? 

I watched the first season, but I can't remember that scene. It was common knowledge during the 80's (I was an adult by that point and watched Nightline every night before bed) that living conditions (housing, food, transportation, clothing) in the Eastern Bloc were deplorable and there were long, long lines to get into a market. You had to hope that there would be something left when you finally made your way to the front door and you would be happy to get it regardless if what it was.

[PinkRibbons]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

I'd love to hear from some of our people with Russian parents on the subject of reactions to American supermarkets.

My folks thought they were slightly prepared; Kramer Vs. Kramer played in the USSR, and a lot of people came to see the grocery shopping scene, (and other general parts of what the Western world looked like) plus they had already been in Italy for two months waiting for acceptance into America, so they had seen better stocked shelves than the ones they'd left behind. Mama however describes walking into her first US supermarket dairy aisle one day very early on to get some milk. There was so much variety that she started feeling queasy and had to leave. (Whether the fact that she was 8 months pregnant at the time had something to do with that, it's up to you to decide.) She says eventually she figured out to just buy the store brand of everything until she could get her bearings.

Three years later Papa begrudgingly agreed to do the grocery shopping with a list Mama gave him. (Much as I love my father, he is such a Jewish stereotype about not being helpful around the house. He only did the shoppings because Mama had just given birth to me and he had to concede that she probably could use a few hours of lying down.) He came home absolutely furious because she hadn't given him the specific brands she was using at the time, and he had had to stare down walls and walls of different versions of everything. In hindsight Mama says she should have sent my then 3-year-old sister with him to tell him what she usually bought.

In a pretty hilarious turnaround, when I visited Lithuania a few years back (Gosh it's been ten, where has the time gone?) I was introduced to something European called a "hypermart". It had about 30 thousand stores in a giganomous building. Made a normal mall over here look like a Mom & Pop Shop. I felt overwhelmed every second I was there.

Edited March 23, 2017 by PinkRibbons

[RedHawk]

37 minutes ago, JennyMominFL said:

I can't be the only one who has seen the grocery store scene in Deutschland 83, can I? And I hate to admit to watching this, but I watch 90 day fiance and one of the wives was from Russia and she nearly cried because she was overwhelmed in the grocery store. She thought it was ridiculous how many variants of food we have. I want to see Philip's other son's reaction

I also look forward to Misha's reactions to everything America, and what he tells P&E about modern life in the USSR. I like watching his journey and although I wanted him to have split his money into different hidden places, I think he had no choice but to let the man take what he wanted. Seems like the guy is willing to help him.

The one discrepancy that jars me is that Misha was a soldier, so I expect him to act a bit tougher, and yet, I can imagine he's terrified to be on this dangerous journey into the unknown and is hoping that by following his mother's instructions he'll be safe.

[whiporee]

I think P&E are going to find out the USSR is the one planning the midge infestation, and that's why Alexi is here -- he was the USSR's William, doing his part for the greater good by letting the US know about the plans and the infestation. Because he knows the USSR can't grow enough grain to feed their own people, and if the US were lose its supply, world famine would possibly follow. The Center is just trying to find out what the US knows about their operation. My guess is the corporation they are going to be chasing is going to have Soviet roots. The center is going to call them off before they get there, but they'll find out. All of that -- along with Paige being coerced by E to seduce Matthew, and Misha's arrival -- is going to put Phillip on the road to defecting. 

I'm always amazed at how transparent Elizabeth is with her honey trap. Since the separation, every time she feels Phillip starting to waver in his devotion to The Cause -- like she did last year with Martha -- she turns on the seduction. Every. Single. Time. 

I wonder how things will work when Oleg meets Martha. A lot of dynamics there. 

It always leaves me in a moral quandry when P or E kill a red shirt. I know it's just a story, but I really do want to cheer for the protagonists. And they go and snap the neck of some bug guy -- and hit him with her own version of Ezekial 25:17 -- or drop a car on a guy who's just living his life. 

[RedHawk]

I also don't feel that Elizabeth was just "working" Philip by using sex to distract him from his questions. It occurs to me that maybe she uses it to repress her unsaid questions as well. They have been shown to be able to lose themselves in sex -- with each other -- and the intimacy comforts them. And geez, was Elizabeth, who surely knows Philip's taste for country couture, going to pass up a chance to "fulfill his fantasy" of having sex with a genuine cowgirl? ;-)

[sistermagpie]

14 minutes ago, stagmania said:

Am I the only one who thought that Elizabeth was comforting Phillip in that hotel scene, not manipulating him? I don't really understand the need to read dastardly intentions into every single thing she does. She loves Phillip. He was troubled, and she had no reassurances to offer. So she did a totally normal thing that happens in all relationships and tried to distract him from his troubles with a little romance. I thought it was a nice scene.

Yeah, I didn't think there was anything going on under the surface there. He said what he was thinking, neither of them had an answer for it, she basically suggested romance instead, he thought about it, decided that he liked the idea, and they had a sweet dance. Not even sex that we saw. I mean, it quite probably led to sex, but they were slow dancing and kissing.

10 minutes ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

I watched the first season, but I can't remember that scene.

The East German main character runs into a supermarket, iirc, to just get indoors and hidden, and then he's just overwhelmed by the shelves. It's like a sudden acid trip. He's just arrived.

32 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

Modern day, I don't know how often kids text parents, especially those that are Paige and Henry's age. I imagine it would be mostly along the lines of, please pick us up at the mall, sports practice is cancelled, can you pick me up early and variations on that. I like your theory that Philip and Elizabeth would have told thier kids not to bother them unless it's an absolute emergency. The part with Paige and Henry is the one that would be the most difficult to pull off if they set the show modern day. 

In some ways the texting/phones would make it easier. It's not like you know where someone is when you call them or text them. They could text they were with a client while getting rid of a body. Other ways, not so much easier.

1 minute ago, whiporee said:

I think P&E are going to find out the USSR is the one planning the midge infestation, and that's why Alexi is here -- he was the USSR's William, doing his part for the greater good by letting the US know about the plans and the infestation.

I don't see how this makes sense. First the USSR is attacking its own grain supply, since they know they get grain from the US. Then they send their own agents to uncover the plan? If the US was just finding out about the Soviet Plan they wouldn't need to be breeding their own bugs. And how is Alexei William? If he's supposed to be undercover as a defector the USSR already knows that he's telling the US about their grain plot and he'd now be a traitor to his job--unlike William. The US can just listen to what he's saying.

5 minutes ago, whiporee said:

I'm always amazed at how transparent Elizabeth is with her honey trap. Since the separation, every time she feels Phillip starting to waver in his devotion to The Cause -- like she did last year with Martha -- she turns on the seduction. Every. Single. Time. 

Because it's not a honey trap. It's a woman having sex with her husband. Sometimes actual couples suggest sex to deal with emotional conflicts. If Philip doesn't like it he rejects it--he's rejected it in the past. She turns on the seduction when she wants him to want her. It doesn't have to be a lie. I think the reason we see it so much is that from the beginning Elizabeth has been more in control of their sex life. At first Philip didn't know why. Now it's kind of tied to her all her issues about consent. So we don't see him seducing her the same way.

[gwhh]

Misch is going to be OK. First off he was a member of elite until. Soviet airbrones forces was more or less equal to our "rangers".  He a combat veteran. Anyone who thinks he will be a pushover.  Will be in for a big surprise.  Plus, he get Phillip blood in his veins that a big help also. 

What kind of money does he have with him?  I take it. That its "western Money" how much does he have?  I take it as a good sign they guy did not take all his money!   I think the guy was checking out his backpack to see if it jived  with his story. Since no one know him there. I can't wait tell he get to the promise land!!  USA, USA!!  

[ToniG]

I just finished watching the episode, and read all the insightful comments. I, however, am jumping into the shallow end of the pool.

I think the actress who plays Paige has either learned to control her eyebrows, or has had Botox.  They no longer look like scared caterpillars trying desperately to crawl up her forehead in Every. Scene.

Now, back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[zibnchy]

3 hours ago, RedHawk said:

I read Philip going to that woman in the car as acknowledging to her that her signal had tipped them to the scientist coming into the lab, and that unfortunately they now had to leave a dead body for her to dispose of. Sort of a "thank you and sorry about this" in one brief silent scene. Sucks to be her, ugh.

Thanks. I think you're right. The whole bit went right over my head. I think I was still cringing about the way the guy was killed. It looked (and sounded) like Phillip just sorta snapped him in half. I think I flashed back to the body (forgot her name) in the suitcase. Crack!

[RedHawk]

19 minutes ago, whiporee said:

It always leaves me in a moral quandry when P or E kill a red shirt. I know it's just a story, but I really do want to cheer for the protagonists. And they go and snap the neck of some bug guy -- and hit him with her own version of Ezekial 25:17 -- or drop a car on a guy who's just living his life. 

Dropping the car on that totally innocent guy really turned me against Elizabeth. He wasn't even in the wrong place at the wrong time, like the old lady or this Randy, both coming to work late at night when they weren't expected. He was just working on his car in his own driveway. Then the way Philip took Randy out, that awful cracking sound when his neck broke, UGH! About as bad as the guy in the computer lab whose body Philip carried out in a big trash can. And Gene, that one truly got under Philip's skin. P&E both have so much murder on their hands, they'll never wash that blood off.

I hope we soon see more of Philip (and Sandra) at EST because I love how it reveals Philip's inner conflicts to us and to himself. 

Edited March 23, 2017 by RedHawk
Remembered poor Gene.

[whiporee]

7 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I don't see how this makes sense. First the USSR is attacking its own grain supply, since they know they get grain from the US. Then they send their own agents to uncover the plan? If the US was just finding out about the Soviet Plan they wouldn't need to be breeding their own bugs. And how is Alexei William? If he's supposed to be undercover as a defector the USSR already knows that he's telling the US about their grain plot and he'd now be a traitor to his job--unlike William. The US can just listen to what he's saying.

We have no evidence the Soviets' grain supply is suffering for any reason other than incompetence. The Center says the US may be sabotaging shipments, but that's just the Center talking. However, if the Soviets were to sabotage the US supply, then the two superpowers are on more equal footing. Given the Soviet history of using tactics like that on their own people, I don't think there's any reason to doubt they would be attacking the US supply. As much as we might want to cheer for P&E, the USSR was not the good guy in this scenario. The William comparison was simply that William was willing to get the bio weapon samples -- even after he'd soured on the homeland aspects of his life -- because he thought the balance or terror needed to be preserved. But Maybe Oleg is the better comparison. 

13 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Because it's not a honey trap. It's a woman having sex with her husband. Sometimes actual couples suggest sex to deal with emotional conflicts. If Philip doesn't like it he rejects it--he's rejected it in the past. She turns on the seduction when she wants him to want her. It doesn't have to be a lie. I think the reason we see it so much is that from the beginning Elizabeth has been more in control of their sex life. At first Philip didn't know why. Now it's kind of tied to her all her issues about consent. So we don't see him seducing her the same way.

I don't see how P&E have a marriage in any way that can be defined the way you're defining it. They were assigned each other after both were taught to use sex as a tool to control, if not a weapon. They may care about each other, but I think any time either of them provides solace to the other, I can't see how they would possibly trust it. Elizabeth may want Phillip from time to time, but she also knows -- or at least has been taught -- that the easiest way to control a man is by fucking him. If he's losing his focus on the job, fuck him until he's back on track. I don't know if that's true, but it's clearly what both P&E have been taught. She didn't suggest sex -- she made an aggressive and overt seduction, and the only time we ever see Elizabeth doing that is when Phillip is starting to wander from the corral. It may happen other times, but the times we're shown it, it's when Phillip is at an emotionally questioning time, and Elizabeth needs to reign him back in. 

[spaceghostess]

4 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I wish I could find the exact artwork, but this is one of them.  ;)  Those kinky Disney employees...

 

Poor Oleg, I'm just so glad he's on screen and not in a Russian or American prison.

LOL--I also had this very record set with the storybook thingy (hand-me down from my older sibs). And yes, my very young self did appreciate the prince down there in the dungeon. My mom sold it at a garage sale, but looking at it now? Oh, my. Methinks this may be the foundation of my subsequent Ethan Chandler mega-crush. 

In other news, while I generally have a healthy appreciation for the shades of gray in our (anti)heroes, this was one of those episodes where I just wanted to smack Philip and Elizabeth really hard. Their manipulation of Paige nauseates me, and now she's buying into their spin, because why wouldn't she? Of course she wants to believe her parents are saving the world. I realize that my personal experiences with children (my own) being manipulated (by my malignant-narcissist ex) inform my visceral reactions to these scenes, but still. It's almost easier for me to handle them killing people. Almost. I also wanted to punch them for killing Randy (I'm another one who thought he said "weed eaters"). I guess they had to do away with him, but I really hated them in that scene.

Mischa is my little sweetie. I feel like hugging him and giving him hot cocoa every time he's onscreen. The subtle, but definite, resemblance between the actor who plays him and MR is a beautiful thing.

Oh, and I forgot to say: MARTHA!! I'd watch the hell out of a show about her life in Moscow. In the opening credits, she'd fling her babushka in the air before being escorted off the square to parts unknown.

Edited March 23, 2017 by spaceghostess
MARTHA!

[sistermagpie]

21 minutes ago, whiporee said:

We have no evidence the Soviets' grain supply is suffering for any reason other than incompetence.

I didn't say we did. I'm not assuming that the Americans are actually doing what the Soviets are saying they are. I just don't understand a scenario where the Soviets are actually doing it to the Americans and sending P&E to uncover the Americans appearing to do it because this will show them how much the US knows about what the Soviets are doing. Also the Soviets know or say they think that Alexei is helping the Americans create their own wheat-killing program, so why are they letting him do that? He's not secretly handing over this info like Oleg, he's doing it quite openly.

This doesn't make the Soviets the good guys in the scenario.  It just questions the logic of this particular dastardly Soviet plot.

21 minutes ago, whiporee said:

I don't see how P&E have a marriage in any way that can be defined the way you're defining it. They were assigned each other after both were taught to use sex as a tool to control, if not a weapon.

I'm defining marriage by the common definitions, which P&E very obviously fit. Arranged marriages are marriages, and the people in this one eventually fell in love. To say they're just two people assigned to each other with one of them using sex to control the other without them caring about each other is erasing the whole central relationship of the show. They care about each other. They love each other. They had an arranged marriage/were assigned to pose as man and wife, and now they are in love and have a marriage. The whole first season is explicitly about them both taking that step to being real--and it's mostly Elizabeth who's scared to do it. Even their handlers get that they're actually married now and that's a different thing to deal with.

21 minutes ago, whiporee said:

She didn't suggest sex -- she made an aggressive and overt seduction, and the only time we ever see Elizabeth doing that is when Phillip is starting to wander from the corral. It may happen other times, but the times we're shown it, it's when Phillip is at an emotionally questioning time, and Elizabeth needs to reign him back in. 

That's not the only time we see her aggressively or overtly seducing him at all. We've seen her do it when she just wants to have sex, when she feels insecure about his love for her, when she feels affectionate towards him, when she sees him hurting and wants to be there for him. She thought he had wandered from the corral for years before the show started and did not seduce him to get him back in line. She apparently mostly rejected him entirely sexually except as a sperm donor until the start of the show. You can be a sex worker and still have a genuine relationship with someone. I

Philip's a sex worker too.  He's not controlled by sex. And Elizabeth having sex with him doesn't make his doubts disappear.

I don't understand how their relationship as portrayed on the show makes sense as just Elizabeth fucking this guy into staying with his job. It doesn't make sense as a motivation as most of her actions, if any. Or his.

Edited March 23, 2017 by sistermagpie

[rlc]

Was that Svetlana from The Sopranos?

[MisterBluxom]

12 hours ago, Bannon said:

I think the big reveal will be that Henry has become a staunch Reagan Republican, under the influence of his slightly older high school buddy, Alex P. Keaton. It will be the first episode of The Americans to feature  a laugh track.

Let me predict the three most common probabilities - a girl or drugs or a criminal gang.