S06.E12: Murder Most Foul

[formerlyfreedom]

Before Hook takes the next step in his relationship with Emma, he wants to make sure David sees him as more than just a pirate. So when David asks Hook to help him uncover the truth about his father’s death, Hook agrees. Meanwhile, Regina works to acclimate Robin to life in Storybrooke, but soon discovers he has a dark side that makes the task much more complicated than she anticipated.

 

[InsertWordHere]

I really, really wish the show hadn't gone there. 

[Mari]

"I need you to promise to stop running away and trying to kill people."

Just looking at it makes me laugh.  I don't know if that was their intention, or not, but it was the best line of the night.  Closely followed by "The hearts of . . my enemies.  But."  And, why did this have to happen in the Evil Crypt of Sex?

David's meltdown at the end, about his fear of the future, was also well done.  The show would be better served by having a few more reaction scenes that feel sincere.

I truly enjoyed the episode . . . right until we found out that Hook killed the father.

So, why do we keep having August/Pine Boy scenes?  Because while it's nice to have characters that aren't part of the main drama to interact with once in a while, his continual appearances have to mean something.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Mari

[FormerMod-a1]

Eion seems be looking extra fine this season.  That's all I'm going to say about anything right now.

[ParadoxLost]

Damn it. 

West Coasters.  Stop watching the episode 5 mintues before it ends.  Don't read any farther.  And then give up OUAT.

End it on a good note.

Damn it!

Edited March 13, 2017 by ParadoxLost

[Worsel]

I really liked this episode.  I adored the bromance and the interactions between Hook and David.  The acting and the emotions were genuine and moving.  I definitely did not expect the ending where Hook killed David’s dad.  It adds an extra layer of depth to all the scenes.

Dear writers:  thank you for the scene with Hook, David and August that allowed me to see three gorgeous men on screen at the same time.   

Nottingham:  the human punching bag in every realm.  It’s nice to see such great consistency. 

Well it certainly looks like Wish!Robin is not only different but also much more sinister than original Robin.  I wonder if the writers are setting him up as a major villain.  It certainly makes him more interesting than the hero version.

Edited to add: I guess anyone can perform magic with a book and some ingredients. Seems to make magic less special if anyone can do it. 

Edited March 13, 2017 by Worsel

[Sarcastica]

I was ENJOYING this episode SO SO MUCH. A David and Hook adventure with his murder board and magic time. It had everything. 

I would have married this episode. I was loving it THAT much!

And then........

Of course......

Sigh....

Edited March 13, 2017 by Sarcastica

[mjgchick]

Well that was canceled.

[sharky]

A&E once again proving their plot twists are dumb. This is Marian is Zelena level bad. And after such a good episode.

It was frustrating to see that Hook was hiding all this from Emma and didn't tell her what her father was doing. All he had to do was give her a heads up. "Your father us sleep deprived and haunted by his dead dad. Don't worry. I'll stick with him and call you if I need help." Problem solved.

But I loved those Captain Charming scenes. Look! It can be a show with heart and emotion and not have to rely on cheap plot twists to be amazing!

Oh wait....

Anyway, if this is the last season, I will follow Jane wherever she goes. A&E not so much.

[InsertWordHere]

When everything seemed to be ending on a happy note, I thought, "Why did the EQ and Rumple care about this again?" I figured it was just another one of the things you have to fanwank on this show. EQ was just doing it to cause drama for Snowing and make David stressed. Sigh. Nope. The EQ (when Regina was 12ish btw) somehow knew Hook killed papa Charming way back when even George didn't know! And instead of flat out telling Charming this, she sent him on a wild goose chase! Give me a break! 

Edited March 13, 2017 by InsertWordHere

[Arynm]

Hook didn't know right? Right??!! I can't live if he was misleading Charming that whole time. It would be too cruel. I hope he realized what he did after he read the book.

[Curio]

It's okay, Hook. Regina murdered Emma's grandpa and no one gives a shit. You're fine.

Shockingly, I actually enjoyed that episode? It felt like classic OUAT again for the first time in a really long time. Even though it's going to piss off a lot of people, I'm pretty sure we all called the Hook "twist" at the end since this summer when the spoilers came out, but the ending still felt a bit retconned to me. Over the course of five years, they've never actually shown Old School Captain Hook killing a lot of people on screen, but the people he does kill are usually asking for it or in the way of his vengeance to kill Rumple. He's never been shown murdering unless that person did something to upset him. There's a bad storm coming through so my television's sound kept cutting in and out, but did Hook ever say anything about despising the decision David's father made to sell his own son—which would have reminded him of his own father who sold him into slavery—and that's why he killed him? If not, it seems like a really out of character move just to provide a shocking twist.

Also, Regina? You don't just sound like a hypocrite, you are a hypocrite. You can drop the "sound like" part.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Curio

[ParadoxLost]

What the hell.

I was writing an epic post in my head.  It was a tongue bathing of praise (which eww).  I loved this episode.  I was happy.  It restored my faith in this f'ing series.  I was happy.

They just hate praise that much.  It was not god damned necessary.  I can't have anything good.

I hate shows that try to be edgy just for the sake of it.  Stop flipping having characters redeem themselves and then flashback to murdering their girlfriend's grandfather.  Damn it.

I can't even post about an episode that I 95% loved now. Damn it.

[Shanna Marie]

Apologies if I woke up anyone's babies with my loud scream of "ARRRRRGGGHHHHHHH!" there at the end. I'd just been applauding them for doing a very moving episode that incorporated existing characters without feeling the need to tie in all the other characters, too, and I'd been glad that my prediction that Hook would turn out to be the killer was totally wrong. I was satisfied with having been right that George had been behind it. And then they went and ruined it all.

And they'd been doing so well. That big meltdown scene of David's, ending with him crying on Hook's shoulder, was so good. Josh and Colin play so well off each other, both in serious scenes like that and with the comedic bit of them working on the potion together. I could have done without all the Robin and Regina interludes, though I did get great amusement from Robin's reaction to Regina's case full of the hearts of her enemies and her insistence that she's changed (then why not give the hearts back?), but otherwise, I was loving the episode. And then they did exactly what I predicted they'd do from the moment I heard about this plot.

[Artsda]

Oh no! I was loving the episode so much with all the Hook & David scenes and then the show had to go there. 

"I didn't realize you were that old fashioned."

"I am over 200 years old, mate." <3 Loved this scene.

I'm going to at least believe Hook didn't figure it out until David confronted the King. 

Edited March 13, 2017 by Artsda

[sharky]

4 minutes ago, Arynm said:

Hook didn't know right? Right??!! I can't live if he was misleading Charming that whole time. It would be too cruel. I hope he realized what he did after he read the book.

That's what I'm going to believe. Because any other way just makes me more mad about this stupid plot twist.

[AmeliaBedelia]

I got sucked into watching this one based on the promos. It was uneven, but had interesting moments. I ignored Regina/Robin/Snow/Zelena like I always do.

It was nice to see Hook and Archie share a scene. The writers go out of their way to write awkward/unnecessary explanations for things though. Why can't Hook go into the shed at his own damn house? Why is Emma kayaking/canoeing in winter? She doesn't strike me as the type to go "I almost died last night. Today, I kayak!"

David was kind of pissing me off with his attitude, but it is true to character and reminiscent of the Neverland arc.

At the beginning of the ep, I was totally convinced that Hook had killed David's dad. By the ask permission to marry Emma scene, I was really glad he wasn't responsible. The end was shocking...in a bad way. I don't care that Hook's a murderer, but I don't want Emma to excuse his behavior.

Blah, the engagement is kind of tainted which sucks. Not confident the writers can turn things around in a satisfactory way.

[KingOfHearts]

Well, that was a stupid waste of time.

* The casting for Young Ruth was spot on. Congrats to the casting department on that one.
* I'm sick of hearing the word "pirate" like it's some sort of derogatory slur. Hook is always having to prove to Charming, a sexist bigot, that he's noble enough for his daughter. We've been through this since 3A, and nothing has changed.
* Hook going to Archie felt out of place to me. He's just a really bad psychiatrist, and he doesn't help.
* Couldn't Charming just ask Regina for information on his father? Wouldn't she know because the Evil Queen knew?
* I never understood the coin. It kept being shown everywhere, yet its significance wasn't clear. I thought maybe it was important because it was the coin Rumple flipped to choose between the twins, but I guess that wasn't entirely it. How did it show up in front of Emma's house? Was Daddy Charming a ghost tied to the coin? Why did we get so many freaking lingering hots of a coin?! It could compete with Regina's tear shots in 2B!
* Regina and Robin were so cringey. I got secondhand embarrassment just watching their scenes. Ew.
* ZELENA! Our girl is back. Nice to see her defending her child.
* When did the Sheriff of Nottingham get his tongue back? Rumple poofed it into nothingness.
* Well, at least Robin got to call Regina out on her hypocrisy. So we got that.
* The counter-clockwise scene was goofy, but I won't complain. This show needs more lighter moments.
* Pleasure Island was a... pleasant surprise. The visuals were well-done.
* Are you telling me Pinocchio was a wooden puppet boy for 20 years?! 
* Why does August get to be slotted into everything, even when it shouldn't be about him? Is he Rumple 2.0 now?
* When Regina wondered why Robin was able to get through the portal I thought, "So he can be with the Evil Queen!"
* Freaking ugh. Hook murdered Charming's father? Really? Do we have to go there? That was so ridiculously contrived and stupid. We don't need to put more speedbumps like that on the road to Captain Swan. We just don't. That was so unnecessary.

I've never been a fan of Charming. He's a hypocrite. I'm glad his centric is over so we can move on to better things.... maybe. I personally enjoyed the premiere much more. Sorry, I'm a bit of a Charming hater. I thought Hook was amazing in this episode until the very end.

Edited March 13, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[tennisgurl]

*Sigh* And it was all going so well too...

Honestly though. I think plenty of people called the Hook "twist" eons ago, but I was really hoping that wasn't going to be where they go. I'm just on a bit of a rollercoaster right now. I LOVED most of the episode, and then...the "twist". Oy.

Too bad Hook doesn't have access to whatever spell Regina used to make everyone stop caring about her past murder victims. That would be nice right about now.

[Curio]

23 minutes ago, Arynm said:

Hook didn't know right? Right??!! I can't live if he was misleading Charming that whole time. It would be too cruel. I hope he realized what he did after he read the book.

 

 

I really, really, really hope he didn't know. But that's such a specific death so it seems weird that he wouldn't remember it, especially since he's the kind of guy who keeps rings of his enemies and can list off very oddly specific details about each of their deaths.

22 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

I was writing an epic post in my head.  It was a tongue bathing of praise (which eww).  I loved this episode.  I was happy.  It restored my faith in this f'ing series.  I was happy.

 

1

I literally did the exact same thing. Had a huge post ready then had to course correct. There was so much to love about that episode, and then...

I don't really care about Emma's reaction, I'm actually more curious how Hook is going to confront David about it.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Curio

[Katherine]

Ugh. I shouldn't be surprised. Everyone predicted that stupid "twist" before the season even started. But then as I was watching this episode, I actually thought to myself, "Thank God the writers decided not to go that route. That would have been beyond stupid". Well.

Aside from the morality issues, there's also just the issue of why. Why would they do this? To shock the audience? It was predictable. To create even more angst for Emma and Hook? There were so many other, less damaging ways to do that. To lower Hook to Regina's level? Maybe. To piss off Hook fans? Mission accomplished. 

I know this won't lead to Captain Swan breaking up (at least not permanently), but it's still frustrating and unnecessary. Someone put this show out of its misery.

[FormerMod-a1]

Hook didn't know.  It wasn't until he saw the picture that he realized that was the a man he killed.  The picture triggered the memory and the angst.

[Rumsy4]

I was enjoying the episode until the very end. Now the whole episode is ruined for me. How disrespectful to the charatcers! The writers don't give a crap about anything but the "twist". Even trying to pull our heartstrings all throughout the episode was only in order to shock us with the final twist. Man I really might hate this Show now.

[InsertWordHere]

I don't think Hook knew until he saw the picture of Papa Charming. It was random how August brought those pages to him and not David, but kind of nice that they finally answered the question of what he took from the book. 

[Shanna Marie]

3 minutes ago, Artsda said:

I'm going to at least believe Hook didn't figure it out until David confronted the King. 

I don't think he figured it out until he saw the pages. David's dad is certainly not the only person whose death George engineered, and the means of death was fairly generic. Past Hook didn't know all the circumstances of why George was having this man killed. It was only when Hook saw the picture and recognized the man that he realized.

Just now, Rumsy4 said:

The writers don't give a crap about anything but the "twist".

Which wasn't even shocking because these writers are so predictable. We knew they wouldn't be able to resist.

Wasn't David's truck parked in front of Emma's house when they were digging around in the shed? Did she not notice and wonder why her dad's truck was parked in front?

Who's teaching Snow's classes when David's spending all day awake?

[KateJones]

August is clearly up to something. 

[Mrs. de Winter]

15 minutes ago, Arynm said:

Hook didn't know right? Right??!! I can't live if he was misleading Charming that whole time. It would be too cruel. I hope he realized what he did after he read the book.

I don't think he knew - when August gave him the pages from the book I think he saw the drawing of David's father and that is what triggered the memory.  I admit I don't pay a ton of attention to August so I may have missed something, but I think that also explains why he gave Hook the pages instead of just giving them to David directly. 

What I am not sure of is if we are supposed to think that Hook killing David's father is in the pages themselves - I assume so, but the rule for the book have never made a ton of sense to me.

[Curio]

2 minutes ago, Katherine said:

Ugh. I shouldn't be surprised. Everyone predicted that stupid "twist" before the season even started. But then as I was watching this episode, I actually thought to myself, "Thank God the writers decided not to go that route. That would have been beyond stupid". Well.

 

 

I predicted this last summer, but I'm pretty sure I predicted it with the caveat that they actually wouldn't go ALL THE WAY there with Hook doing the murder. I figured they'd go a more complicated route (you know, because this show always brags about being "grey" and not "black and white") where Hook was the one who inadvertently got David's father killed by being a bad influence in the bar and purposely getting him drunk in order to steal his money, which would lead to David's father getting killed by some other dudes. But yeah, wow, they once again went the laziest, most predictable, and most character-assassinating route.

[mjgchick]

3 minutes ago, KateJones said:

August is clearly up to something. 

Yeah the way he looked at Hook in the first scene and then he goes and gives Hook the pages and not David? That bitch is shady.

[Rumsy4]

8 minutes ago, Katherine said:

Aside from the morality issues, there's also just the issue of why. Why would they do this? To shock the audience? It was predictable. To create even more angst for Emma and Hook? There were so many other, less damaging ways to do that. To lower Hook to Regina's level? Maybe. To piss off Hook fans? Mission accomplished. 

...Someone put this show out of its misery.

Yes to all.

[Curio]

Man, if Hook feels this bad about killing David's father he only knew for six years of his life, imagine the episode where August discovers the missing pages about Graham's death and shows them to Emma!

Wait...

1 minute ago, mjgchick said:

Yeah the way he looked at Hook in the first scene and then he goes and gives Hook the pages and not David? That bitch is shady.

Omg, please don't let this lead to a love triangle with Emma, August, and Hook. Is that why they spent a weird amount of time setting up Emma and August last episode? 

[Souris]

These writers are pathologically incapable of not going for the cheap, contrived twist. Even when they have something good going, they can't help themselves from ruining it by throwing in something stupid. Especially if it pisses off fans in the process. They laugh over that, I'm sure.

Nobody should expect this show to deliver a happy ending for Captain Swan in the end. They will NOT be able to resist having some sort of dark twist at the end.

[Mari]

5 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

 

Which wasn't even shocking because these writers are so predictable. We knew they wouldn't be able to resist.

Yes.

The shocking part was when it seemed Hook wasn't responsible.  Then the final scene, and I just groaned.

[CCTC]

I thought it was a good episode, but could have done without the twist ending.  Not every relationship has to have drama and angst.  With all the darkness in the show, it would be nice to have Charming and Hook settle into a drama free relationship and have some light hearted scenes with some good natured bickering and kidding.  I did like they threw in some humor in their interactions, e.g. the potion scene etc.

They really do under utilize Josh Dallas.  He is actually not a bad actor.  Although, I guess in general they do not give many  emotional scenes for more than 10 seconds like they did today with David and Hook.

Fake Hood is actually somewhat interesting.  I am a bit curious about where his plot is going.  I did not expect Regina to realize she did not love him quite so quickly.  I actually would not mind the Hood plot, except it is something they threw in when they already had too many plots to resolve, EQ, Gideon, Aladdin, etc.

[tennisgurl]

Writer 1: "I'm just so sick of the audience being so hard on Regina! She's only killed a few hundred people or so! Don't they understand that her mom was mean and her boyfriend died, so she is totally justified in all her actions?!?!"

Writer 2: "I know! People love Hook and he was a villain! He might not have been a murderous serial rapist and a bloody tyrant, but he was a pirate! Its basically the same thing, right?"

Writer 1. "I have a great idea! Lets retcon it so that Hook murdered Charming's father! Who cares if it doesn't totally match the characters as written or even the time frame we`ve set up! People will HAVE to love Regina now that they see she and Hook are the same, right?!?!"

Writer 2: "That's a perfect idea! It worked so well when we retconed the Charming's into egg nappers to remind everyone how everyone is worse than Regina! We are just GREAT at our jobs!"

[Mrs. de Winter]

Nice to see that Snow - who has limited time is spending it with her children  - including the one who was almost murdered in the last episode.  Ah, family - the respect this show has for it does a heart good (sarcasm font off). 

David and Hook were a fun pairing. The show actually focused on some real concerns and emotions for once.  Robin and Regina were annoying - but easily mutable so I almost made it through a whole episode without hating myself for still watching.  And then we got to the end - and now I hate myself again.  Sigh. 

[Blue Plastic]

28 minutes ago, Mari said:

Just looking at it makes me laugh.  I don't know if that was their intention, or not, but it was the best line of the night.  Closely followed by "The hearts of . . my enemies.  But."  And, why did this have to happen in the Evil Crypt of Sex?

I guess just so Evil!Robin would have a chance to see the dangerous magical relic, see where Regina put it, and come back later to steal it.  It made no sense for her to take him to her stupid mausoleum.  They could have easily had that discussion at her house.  But they had to do something to get him near the magical box he was going to steal.

SO disappointed about this ending.  After seeing THAT scene I was hoping Hook just didn't know it was David's father that he killed that day, but apparently he does know.  Why must they do this kind of thing with Hook every season?  Crap!  I'm not even the biggest Captain Swan shipper in the world but do like them together and don't enjoy the "secrets" they're always throwing in to potentially break them up.

[Kktjones]

Here's my review of the first 56 minutes of the show:

Love the dynamic between Hook & Charming. The scene with the potion was pure gold. Loved that the characters were both allowed to feel emotions and actually talk about said emotions! So many heartfelt scenes. Can't wait to re-watch this episode as soon as it's over!

Here's my review of the final 4 minutes of the show:

F--- YOU Adam & Eddy. Seriously, you just had to do it didn't you. I know that Emma & Charming will eventually find out and it will somehow all be okay, but for me it will always taint his relationship with Emma. WHY did they think this was okay? There's relationship angst and then there's finding out your boyfriend killed your grandfather in cold blood. Sorry, I just don't know if I can get past it (even if Emma can). 

[InsertWordHere]

23 minutes ago, Katherine said:

 To lower Hook to Regina's level? 

They've been attempting to do this since last season when they had Hook cast the (useless) curse to get revenge on Rumple and revealed that he also murdered his father. Now they've added the murder of Emma's grandfather to their list of shared traits. 

Edited March 13, 2017 by InsertWordHere

[Souris]

5 minutes ago, InsertWordHere said:

They've been attempting to do this since last season when they had Hook cast the (useless) curse to get revenge on Rumple and revealed that he also murdered his father. Now they've added the murder of Emma's grandfather to their list of shared traits. 

It's just so obvious. They keep doing stuff like that to try to bring others down to Regina's level -- like the stupid eggnapping by Snowing. They can't raise Regina up on her own, they have to tarnish others instead.

[angel1008]

44 minutes ago, aquarian1 said:

Eion seems be looking extra fine this season.  That's all I'm going to say about anything right now.

I wholeheartedly agree!  I do hope we see more of him this season!

[Rumsy4]

More episodes like this one, and I may not even finish watching this season. 

[OnceUponAJen]

35 minutes ago, sharky said:

That's what I'm going to believe. Because any other way just makes me more mad about this stupid plot twist.

I'm blaming August for this one.

[CCTC]

George really is kind of a bastard.  They should have used him more in season 2 and have him join forces with Cora.  They could have caused a lot or problems together.

[Curio]

Quote

But why create brand new drama when there's already similar cases for the writers to mine? Main Character A killed someone significant to Main Character B in the past, but this information has been kept a secret for a long time. When the true information finally surfaces, Character B is pissed at Character A. The writers have already written canon scenarios where they could have explored this, but instead, they decided to completely ignore the organic drama. Regina killing Graham and Emma not knowing, Rumple throwing Milah in the river and Hook not knowing, or you could even include Rumple killing Milah and Belle not knowing but then never properly reacting when she did find out. Those all fulfill the same kind of dramatic effect the writers are trying to achieve with David's father's story, so why the sudden need to create a brand new version of this with David when they didn't even bother to touch on the other canon examples? And the other examples actually elicit more of an emotional punch because we actually knew the characters on screen who were killed. David's father doesn't even have a name that I'm aware of, has only been mentioned verbally in conversations a few times, and died before Charming barely had a working adult memory. Why should I, as an audience member, even care about this? If they wanted us to care, they should have actually given him a name, shown us a photo of the father, or given Charming a decent flashback once in a while.

 

Just re-quoting something I wrote in the speculation thread back in October. It seems fitting for this thread now that the Hook speculation was correct.

[sharky]

@Curio as much as I appreciate your foresight all those months ago, I have to wonder just how hard that was. I mean, are you really that insightful or are A&E really that lame and predictable? Sorry, but I think this is a blame A&E situation. You get an A for effort though. ;)

And really, that was from October? Just let that sink it. We've been predicting this from October, if not earlier. I just.... To quote Liz Lemon, "Blerg."

Edited March 13, 2017 by sharky

[Rumsy4]

And we had yet another moment where Emma mentions something domestic she and Hook will be doing off-screen (was it popcorn?), but we'll never get to witness. This ship is running on empty now.

[irisheyes]

I was loving every single thing about this episode.  It had an interesting storyline, believable interactions, and lots of Charming and Hook.  Plus, no Henry!!  And then, the end. . .

This is why we can't have nice things.

Edited March 13, 2017 by irisheyes

[OnceUponAJen]

1 minute ago, Rumsy4 said:

And we had yet another moment where Emma mentions something domestic she and Hook will be doing off-screen (was it popcorn?), but we'll never get to witness. This ship is running on empty now.

And Hook knows what malted milk balls AND popcorn is.

[InsertWordHere]

Ar this point, I'm wondering why they didn't just go all out and have puppet Pinnochio on his way back to Gepetto's when he noticed that foul Captain Hook killing the nice man Pinnochio had met earlier, causing him to continue his pleasure seeking for decades and later abandon baby Emma for it when he got to our world.

I am side-eying August hard for removing that story in the first place and then giving the pages to Hook. To think I actually almost liked him in his scene with David and Hook.