Underground - General Discussion

[mrsbagnet]

On 4/12/2017 at 11:25 PM, MatterofTime said:

She could have been talking to all of us today.

I have no doubt that she was talking to us. The writers/producers did that on purpose. They even made an unsubtle dig at "Make America Great Again," which I loved.

[catrice2]

Add me to those that who couldn't make it through the episode.  I know it was important and that she probably did a great job...but it just didn't hold my interest....which pretty much sums up this season for me.   

[ixixan]

Holy shit, Clara was horror movie levels of scary hehehe but I liked that Ernestine was one step ahead and when she told her "you can't have [my blood]"

I knew Cato would sell Devi out the second she said she'd rather be sold, but I still couldn't help it and gasped when it happened.

[sweetcookieface]

I'm curious how people are feeling about Season 2 overall. I can't help but feel underwhelmed. After getting off to a somewhat slow start, Season 1 completely hooked me - I thought the whole stretch from Episode 4 to Episode 8 or 9 was beautiful, shocking, and heart-breaking. There were so many memorable moments, from Ernestine poisoning Pearly Mae, to James being sent to the fields (that whole episode - especially James' segment - killed me), to Rosalee and Cato passing as a free couple, to Sam hanging. I think there have been occasional moments of brilliance in Season 2 - "Ache" and "Minty" were the high points (I especially love that whole segment set to "Oya" in "Ache"). But the rest of it has been a bit of a slog for me. Rosalee and Noah in particular have become pretty boring (and I feel like Jurnee's acting is glaringly bad at times - something I didn't really notice last season). Ernestine has been the MVP of the season for me. I didn't think last night's episode approached the brilliance of the other episodes I mentioned, but at least it seems to be setting various plots in motion, and I found the Clara plot compelling (if a bit over the top). I'm still waiting for Bokeem Woodbine's character to link to the others in some way. Anyway, I really hope the last three episodes leave me with a more positive take on the season!

[Galloway Cave]

2 hours ago, sweetcookieface said:

Anyway, I really hope the last three episodes leave me with a more positive take on the season!

I'm feeling exactly the same way as you. Jurnee's acting is too frantic this season. Each episode seems to build to something, but cuts off too soon, or fizzles out without that satisfaction or feeling of anticipation that the episodes had last season. Hopefully by the end of the season it will all make sense, because I do love the series and how they approach telling the stories.

[wanderingstar]

I'm loving this season, but this episode broke my heart. Seeing Cato and Rosalee tortured, Devi sold into slavery and James selling out Rosalee and Noah, it was all too much.

The performances were excellent as always, especially DeWanda Wise as Clara. She was pretty terrifying. I was glad to see Ernestine coming out of her fog - though her ending up in August Pullman's clutches made me want to throw stuff at my TV.

[tricknasty]

Where was Stine when she ran into Stabler? Clara terrified me and this show is depressing me. Not good...

[Dee]

Why would Cato (who has extremely noticeable facial scarring) return to the US where he's still a wanted fugitive?

[MonicaBang]

Quote

Why would Cato (who has extremely noticeable facial scarring) return to the US where he's still a wanted fugitive?

Cato had the Macon 7's "papers" that showed they were free persons (the ones Pearly Mae created with the plantation seal stolen by Rosalee).  Cato took two out at the Dr's house when the Sheriff asked to see their papers.  At least one belonged to Pearly Mae. Rosalee grabbed those two when they were rushing out of the house and those papers were seen being burned with her dress. Cato still had the rest.

Cato probably thought money cures all problems, but he might have thought that his papers were enough to get him by as long as he avoided the slave catchers they had already encountered (plus its not clear if they know Tom Macon died). We did see one of his men tell him he was poking a bear by being so public back in the states.

[Maryamagenia]

https://www.facebook.com/Undergroundwgnfanvids/

[wanderingstar]

This episode ("Auld Acquaintance") was EVERYTHING.

From Cato singing the drinking gourd song to Rosalee torching the Macon plantation, there were so many breathtaking moments, I lost track.

Loved seeing Harriet again.

Noah and Rosalee were amazing in this episode. I loved Noah's conversation with James. And while I was shocked to see Rosalee knock out James, I'm glad she did it so they could escape with him.

Also loved Elizabeth "helping" her friend donate to the cause.

And I'm hella intrigued to see what kind of long con Cato is playing.

Next week looks intense!
 

[Dee]

Elizabeth has come a LONG way since the pilot.

[InsertWordHere]

I hope all of the other people were out of the plantation house when Rosalee set it on fire. I assume they were because that seems really out of character for Rosalee but they didn't really make it clear. TR was also really close to the burning building but I've got a feeling he'll survive.

[ruby24]

I feel like this season really started picking up steam from the Harriet Tubman episode on. These last few episodes have been great!

[goldil]

Two things that have been bothering me. Didn't Susanna have a baby last season? Where is that kid?

Also, are we 100% positive Ben is dead? August has never said that he's dead, only that his son got hurt. In one of the S2 trailers, he's briefly shown wailing at a gravesite, but that scene hasn't aired yet. And Patty's biographer also offered to write a letter to him for August. I don't imagine Patty is going to be very happy to learn August killed her fucktoy and appears to be traveling away from her with her Black Rose bait, so I don't think the Ben storyline is dead and buried yet (no pun intended).

Edited April 29, 2017 by goldil

[mrsbagnet]

On 4/27/2017 at 0:42 AM, InsertWordHere said:

I hope all of the other people were out of the plantation house when Rosalee set it on fire. I assume they were because that seems really out of character for Rosalee but they didn't really make it clear. TR was also really close to the burning building but I've got a feeling he'll survive.

My only thought was, "Did she really just kill all those people." James hardly seems worth that.

Rosalee glaring at James had me dying. She was trying to lay down some serious guilt.

Edited April 29, 2017 by mrsbagnet

[North of Eden]

Okay, let me preface this by saying I am a couple episodes behind (Whiteface being last watched) and everything could have turned itself around completly...but I doubt it.

This season has really been a let down (at a time when it can't afford to be...see OUTSIDERS cancellation). Whoever said it was nonsensical above was spot on. There seems to be no thruline...random things...just happen...everything is disconnected...

My theory on what happened is this. WGN and the producers probably didn't realize how big a hit the first season would be so they burned through characters and story at a lightening pace so it could all be wrapped up in a season. The season had a compelling narrative....the planning and the escape. All this could have easily been stretched out...the whole planning could have been one season like season one of Prison Break and season 2 picking up with the actual escape.

Also a mistake killing Sam and and the master. Ernestine had a compelling storyline I'd never seen before...the way she controlled the master to an extent. All of that could easily have gone on into season 2. Instead we get an Ernestine who is a shell of her former self and a dope addict to boot placed in a far less interesting plantation.

John Dies! I really wanted to see the dynamic between John and his new found colored niece but that went out the window right quick.

If anyone can explain the whole Georgia passing storyline I'm up for hearing it.

Cato's storyline....I just can't with it.,...makes no sense.

Also I am to understand Noah is somehow blissfully riding off with Rosalee and doesn't know she's pregnant? And Elizabeth never said anything?!

Capping everything off the show has embraced the worst aspect of THE WALKING DEAD in which characters disapear for whole episodes at a time or be reduced to a cameo in order to "spotlight" a character of the week....nobody likes that.

With falling ratings....hoepfully the show will fix itself for season 3 if it gets one and will sharpen the narrative back to a compelling story for the characters we love.

Edited April 30, 2017 by North of Eden

[LoveIsJoy]

I'm only still watching this because I have an unfortunate obsession of needing to finish a book or series to see how it ends; no matter that I ceased caring about these characters ages ago.  My husband threw in the towel near the start of the 2nd season.

As you say, North of Eden, everything seems so rushed and random.  Characters come and go with no explanation (still have no idea where Georgia came from or why/how she's "passing."  Cato's story makes zero sense, and Rosalee has become less a fully realized character and more of a canvas to illustrate every horror that slaves endured, whether or not it moves the story forward.  I'm truly disappointed in the series, but I'm hanging on until the end.

[Boofish]

Did I miss an entire episode? How did the new character Bokeem Woodbine go blind?

And do I start mourning all the slaves that worked so hard to get into that house for one day only to be burned alive by Rosalie? Or do I have satisfaction that the truly awful Mrs Macon and her equally horrible kid saw everything they owned burned to the ground. Too bad they weren't still in the house.

[catrice2]

I tried to catch up on all the episodes I have missed, but I ended up fast forwarding through most of them as I could not take Aldis' bulging eyes in every scene and lord knows I thought Rose was the weak link last year and nothing has changed.  Reed Diamond, the man who played Sam ....so many others were much stronger actors than these two, and let's face it, Stine carried the show last year, along with Cato. 

I can't even watch long enough to figure out what Cato's story is supposed to be, or what happened Meloni's character.  The side story with the black lady of the manor and Stine was the clincher for me....this season is awful. 

[mrsbagnet]

7 hours ago, catrice2 said:

Aldis' bulging eyes in every scene

Yes, this. Enough already. It makes him look crazed.

9 hours ago, Boofish said:

Did I miss an entire episode? How did the new character Bokeem Woodbine go blind?

Either last week or the week before, there was a scene with him teaching others to read when night riders showed up. He got caught, so I assume they blinded him for reading. I'm hoping (perhaps foolishly) that the damage is temporary. The phrase on the stone he was carving means Wisdom Itself Is Liberty. What I really want to know is where/when he's going to fit into the main story.

[wanderingstar]

Citizen was another excellent episode. 

I loved the structure of the episode, where they showed events unfolding from different perspectives (Cato's, Elizabeth's, Georgia's, Harriet's). 

The Noah/Rosalee confrontation scene was great, but I had to call foul on Noah saying Rosalee is just like her father. That was a low blow.

I also thought the scene of Noah, James and Rosalee under that wagon was great.

Curious to see what - if any - long con Cato is playing.

Elizabeth's got the steel-eyed glare. I wouldn't be surprised if she seeks out John Brown's crew.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Gillian Rosh

[Jodie Landon]

I'm enjoying this season, but this was my least favorite episode. I didn't like the repetition of scenes. Comparing Rosalee to her father was harsh, but I understand Noah's anger. The baby will be the only blood relative he's ever known, and Rosalee put that in jeopardy to save her own, and deceived him to do it.

I guess they somehow reprogrammed James. I thought he'd be a problem. I hate that Cora didn't make it.

Hopefully some of these loose ends will be somewhat tied up next week. I'd like to know where Daniel fits in and where Stine and Stabler are headed, but most of all I want Cato and Patty to die.

[sereion]

4 minutes ago, Jodie Landon said:

 I want Cato and Patty to die.

Most definitely; especially Patty.  Cato's doing too much and I am getting tired of him, but I am curious of his game plan.

[Dee]

'Underground' Seeks New Home as Sinclair Deal Leads to "Complete Pause" at WGN America

[catrice2]

Can someone update on the last episode or two? I just had to fast forward through most of it.  Any word on if this was renewed for next year or what the ratings have been? 

[AmandaPanda]

3 hours ago, catrice2 said:

Any word on if this was renewed for next year or what the ratings have been? 

It has not yet been renewed. However, WGN America just merged with Sinclair media group and put an end to all original programming efforts. So, if Underground does come back, it is most likely going to have to find a new home. 

[arachne]

Harper's Ferry? Yeah, that's gonna turn out well.

[CTrent29]

How can I put this?  To me, Season Two was a mess.  The narrative was all over the place.  Noah nearly got pushed to the background . . . the series' leading man.  Cato's narrative arc lacked any logic whatsoever.  And I spotted more historical inaccuracies than I did, last season.  It was just a mess.  If the WGN does cancel the show and it gets picked up by someone else, I hope and pray that the show runners do a better job with the writing.

[LoveIsJoy]

When Rosalee "inconveniently" went into labor and delivered a baby while simultaneously heaving large furniture around to barricade the room, my eyes rolled so far out of my head that I'm still looking for them and typing this blind!  The whole season was about Rosalee unrealistically surviving every imaginable horror (covered in leeches while pregnant...really, show?) armed with a pistol and a few packets of herbs, in a pouch filled with gauze strips.  Who needs Harriet Tubman when you've got "super hero/MacGyver" Rosalee?  And when she does finally reunite with Noah, it was completely anti-climactic since his role was largely in the background this season (as CTrent29 noted above).

I love the premise of the show and some of the cast, but the writing was so scattered and nonsensical this year.  I'm not sorry to see this version of Underground end.  That said, if it does come back on another network, I'll give it a chance and hope for a more solid production.

[North of Eden]

Time for a post-mortem.

In two words the whole season can be boiled down to two words....Disjointed Mess.

In my earlier post I theorized they burned through to much story and characters in season one and were left scratching their head how to fill a season two.

Adding to the problem was Jussie's pregnancy. It is what it is. These things happen in real life but if there was ever a time to go to the old body doubles/hiding behind a potted plant now was the time. Writing in to the story resulted in the non-sensical sight of a hugly pregnant Rosalee running around the Deep South with Noah not even having a clue. Worse yet the kid is an albatross to a future season. Are we to believe either Noah or Rosalee would be up for more daring do when they have a kid at home?

I don't normally recommend replacing the showrunners on their own show but after this season it would be desperatly good idea. Look what they did this season. The leads were reduced almost to bit players (Did Chris Meloni have other commitments). Rosalee is suppose to be the main character but you wouldn't know it. Everyone but Cato was a shadow of their former selves. Ernestine gets my vote as most ruined character. She's a dope fiend now? C'Mon...what a waste of Amira Vahn.

Everything was written for people and by people apparently with ADD. Things skipped wildly around that it was a confused mess and sloppy as hell (in the last episode Georgia and Elizabeth don't wonder where the new border Cato has gone off to). So bang...that's it for the white plantation owner and Ernestine's protege...no resolution...never to be seen again.

In a ten episode season precious time was wasted on the prlogues with Bookime. He could have been introduced in the last episode for all the impact it really had. It could have been any random blind slave needing a help...and I won't even go there sacrificing a whole episode for the Harriet Tubman stage play.

Not all was bad. Episode 8 and the return to the plantation was by far the best episode of the season because it felt like REAL UNDERGROUND...revisiting familiar places and characters. I absolutly loved the episode...especially Rosalee standing up to her brother TR and being open about it.

Also Elizabeth's character arc made her the most improved character. Loved her turn into a militant. (I feel there might be more with her and Cato in the future as he DID save her).

Look...they've set up Harper's Ferry...(intersting to me...I don't know what the real Harper's Ferry looked like but that fort was a dead ringer for my local tourist attraction Fort Ticonderoga.)what they need to do now is get new writers who can craft an epic narrative around it and not completly blow through the whole story of the raid in the first episode and then back to more disjointed mess.

This show can be saved for a potential season 3 but they have GOT to get focused and tell a linear and clear narrative.

Edited May 14, 2017 by North of Eden

[Chatty Passenger]

This entire season was like a wild goose chase! I recapped all of the episodes in a podcast on my website but I must saw, the last episode was a let down.

[goldil]

Ben = Schrödinger's cat.

[Dee]

Jessica De Gouw has been the MVP of this season.

Her handling of every part of Elizabeth's arc has been seamless.

I hope, on the off chance Underground isn't picked up by another network, that she lands more high profile tv/film work.

[LoveIsJoy]

On 5/17/2017 at 6:48 PM, goldil said:

Ben = Schrödinger's cat.

Who is Ben?  I don't even remember a character with that name...

[GodsBeloved]

6 hours ago, LoveIsJoy said:

Who is Ben?  I don't even remember a character with that name...

Ben is August's son.

[LoveIsJoy]

6 hours ago, GodsBeloved said:

Ben is August's son.

Ohhhhh!   I did forget about him. LOL, and now I get the

On 5/17/2017 at 6:48 PM, goldil said:

Ben = Schrödinger's cat.

reference.  Good one.

[CTrent29]

I've passed through Harper' Ferry (via the train) on several occasions.  I don't recall any "fort".  I do know that the U.S. Army had stored some of their arms and ammunition inside the town's firehouse, which also served as an arsenal.

[AmandaPanda]

'Underground' Cancelled - No Season 3 for WGN America Series

[wanderingstar]

I hope the producers find another network.

[Artsda]

Not surprised after what WGN did to their highest rated show The Outsiders.

[North of Eden]

The Final Tally:

So...it's cancelled...mainly due too WGN's change in programming.

However the plummeting ratings based on the woefully creative mess didn't help things.

I'm not sure why OWN or BET aren't picking this up as of this posting. You would think there would be huge support for the show. They say its $5 million per episode to film. I feel Oprah Winfrey could probably get that from her piggy bank.

If it does get picked up it really, truly needs a creative overhaul.

[Dee]

I've always found Blucas to be an appealing actor.

He's not amazingly talented, but, much like Scott Foley, he usually does a solid job with what he's given.

However, on Underground, he was a revelation imo.

He, and Jessica De Gouw, turned John & Elizabeth into two of the most fascinatingly complex characters on television in recent memory. As nosleepforme said, Blucas imbues John with nobility and frustration, but he also wasn't afraid of exploring John's anger and darkness.

The episode where John accepts responsibility for ruining Josey's life was some of the best work of his career.

Edited October 25, 2017 by Dee

[mochamajesty]

On 10/25/2017 at 11:20 AM, Dee said:

I've always found Blucas to be an appealing actor.

He's not amazingly talented, but, much like Scott Foley, he usually does a solid job with what he's given.

However, on Underground, he was a revelation imo.

He, and Jessica De Gouw, turned John & Elizabeth into two of the most fascinatingly complex characters on television in recent memory. As nosleepforme said, Blucas imbues John with nobility and frustration, but he also wasn't afraid of exploring John's anger and darkness.

The episode where John accepts responsibility for ruining Josey's life was some of the best work of his career.

So on this show you focus on the two white characters????

[Dee]

Blocked.

[LJones41]

Quote

Cato had the Macon 7's "papers" that showed they were free persons (the ones Pearly Mae created with the plantation seal stolen by Rosalee).  Cato took two out at the Dr's house when the Sheriff asked to see their papers.  At least one belonged to Pearly Mae. Rosalee grabbed those two when they were rushing out of the house and those papers were seen being burned with her dress. Cato still had the rest

 

What good were those papers when Tom Macon had given detailed descriptions of the Macon 7 right after their escape?  The papers didn't help Cato when Patty Cannon caught up with him.  Why take the chance to return to the U.S., when it would have made more sense to remain in Europe or go to Canada?