S05.E02: The Convergence of the Twain

[Spartan Girl]

And it looks like Chick and Caleb will be the first to go this season...

Did anyone else get Animal House flashbacks when Norman was watching Madeline to the soundtrack of "What A Wonderful World This Would Be"?

I was right: Sam Loomis is Madeline's husband. And he's a total dick. Now I don't feel bad that Norman will kill his mistress (and probably his wife).

So Mother still has some feelings for Alex? Oh that is going to be fun...

Norman's epitaph on Norma's grave was so creepy.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Spartan Girl

[KaveDweller]

I'm kind of disappointed Caleb saw Norma, because that has to mean he's about to die. He did terrible things in the past, but he doesn't deserve that fate.

I guess it is ultimately good for Dylan and Emma though, because if Caleb can't tell them Norma's dead it keeps them far away from Norman.

[denny2016]

I have a couple of questions/clarifications regarding Chick. 

Obviously from the end of the current episode, he now knows Norman is dressing like Norma. But...how much of what actually happened does he know?

Does he know Norman killed her? Was his remark tonight about the freezer some clue that he has known for some time that Norman is keeping Norma in the frozen basement? When he said to Caleb outside the bar "maybe you don't know Norman like you think you do," it sounded to me as though he doesn't know that Norman is indeed a killer (or at least, didn't know he killed Norma) but I can't remember the tail end of last season.

The only thing I do remember specifically is Chick bringing Norman some type of casserole to say sorry about Norma's death and seeing her dead body on the couch. This was the scene where Norman glued her eyes open. 

[Mick Lady]

Were the hell is everyone? Even Mick loved this one, and he's not a big fan!

What was the epitaph on the head stone? Would someone post it please? I was in the kitchen.

Does Chick know what he's dealing with?

[tikirocker]

Thumbs up on this episode. Norman/Norma at the bar, loved it.

[thuganomics85]

Don't you just hate it when your dead mom that only you can see, crashes your double-date with a married woman you are creepily stalking and her tool bag husband that you know is cheating on her (oh, and also your actual "date" is there too), and you have to finally tell her to leave through the bathroom window?  Such a pain!

Norman and "Norma" continue to be the best.  It's just so well acted, but I also just get the sense that Vera Farmiga and Freddie Highmore truly have fun acting with each other, and it just makes everything so much fun.  Out of all things about this show that they got right (which, thankfully, was a lot), the casting of these two is at the top of the list.  I will miss it when it is over, but I will enjoy it while I can!

So, yeah, I have to think both Caleb and Chick are on borrowed time.  Both know that Norman has Norma just chilling in the basement, Caleb knows Norman killed her, and Chick has already shown that he is willing to stand up to Norman to try and benefit himself, so I suspect this is all going to end with "Mother" taking out both of them.  Maybe not at the same time, but I think it is totally going to happen.

Romero's strategy know is to claim he is not safe in prison, and get transferred to another one?  I guess one less secure or something, so he can try and get to Norman?

Sure enough, "David Davidson" is Sam Loomis, and he and Norman are already at each others throats.  The double-date scene and their sniping was priceless.  But credit to Austin Nicholas act making Sam such a tool, that I'm siding with the creepy stalker in their battles.

Only one Dylan and Emma scene.  Surprised that Emma actually told Dylan that she talked to Caleb about leaving.  Her bringing up her mother again makes me fear Dylan is going to snoop again, and will drag them back into the thick of it.  Stay in Seattle, guys!
 

[Evie]

The grave was so creepy - the epitaph and Norman's shared plot.

Mother is smoking and learning French and climbing out restaurant windows. Of course. 

Yep, Caleb is a goner. Dylan's going to feel extra guilty, and then there are his suspicions that Norman killed Emma's mom that Emma knows nothing about. Trouble.

[mwell345]

This show continues to excel. Everything from the acting to the direction, the writing, the music, the way it's filmed.  I  was glued to the TV both times Caleb was walking through the house. 

I do have a question:  As he (Caleb) was walking through the house the first time, he walked by the living room and there appeared to be a bloody sheet or something on the couch. Did anyone else notice that - what was it?  Caleb didn't see it because he walked past the room and did not go in it.  Or maybe MY eyes deceived ME. 

And when Caleb found out about Norma, I thought that would obviously lead to Dylan finding out, but it looks like Caleb is a goner. 

I also am not sure how much Chick knows, but he seems to know quite a bit and Norman seems to be aware that Chick knows something.  But I don't remember the details either. 

ETA:  The scene of Norman/Norma in the bar was brilliant- the way they finished each other's sentences and the way the camera cut from one to the other.  

Edited February 28, 2017 by mwell345

[mwell345]

5 hours ago, Mick Lady said:

What was the epitaph on the head stone? Would someone post it please? I was in the kitchen.

According to the E Recap this is it

“Loveliest mother, sweetest friend, most beautiful woman, dearest heart, purest soul, happiest playmate, wife.”

I think "love Norman" was on it as well.

[Bec]

Of course Norman set it up so that he'll be buried with Norma when he dies! Why did I ever think it would be any different?

The epitaph on the tombstone:

Quote

Loveliest Mother, Sweetest Friend / Most Beautiful Woman, Dearest Heart / Purest Soul, Happiest Playmate. Wife. / The World has Lost an Angel You Will / Always Live in My Heart / I Will Never, Never Forget You Dear Mother, There's / a Cord Between Our Hearts. Forever / and Ever Until the Sky Falls Down / Always / Love, Norman

He's not kidding about her always living in his heart. Also... playmate? I can just imagine Norman reading that to the tombstone engraver, he would spit out the word "wife" as if it's poison. And then towards the end he would start talking way too fast.

I was pretty much cackling in glee just waiting for Mother to show up and get him when Caleb just barged into the Bates house. Twice! So rude. Faster pussycat! Kill! Kill!

Is this the first time we saw that little playground set in front of Bates Motel? Out by a road in the middle of a parking lot is a great place to put a playground! (I know, I know, that was only put there so no one would dig up Emma's mom. But still. Couldn't he have put a gazebo there instead?)

I love how we're getting to see so much of what Norman's inner world looks like. It really puts a brand new perspective on the original film.

[quangtran]

1 hour ago, mwell345 said:

I also am not sure how much Chick knows, but he seems to know quite a bit and Norman seems to be aware that Chick knows something.  But I don't remember the details either. 

It looks like Chick knew about pretty much everything since bringing over that casserole, and all their interactions since (including the ruse about taxidermy business) was just for the sake of pumping him for details for his book.

1 hour ago, Bec said:

 I can just imagine Norman reading that to the tombstone engraver, he would spit out the word "wife" as if it's poison.

In my mind, Norman sees "wife" only in reference to her first marriage.

[Chaos Theory]

Another great episode.  Loved Chick and Caleb.  Thought the tombstone was the right mix of funny, sad, sweet and creepy just what the show does best but even better was when "Norma/Mother" asked Norman if he still liked her.

[luna1122]

Oh, I couldn't read the headstone, so thanks for bringing that here. That is the creepiest thing ever.

Caleb is toast. I don't know about Chick yet--he might manage to finesse his way out of this way for a little while.

Loved Emma coming clean to Dylan; they are so sweet. They are so doomed.

[Avaleigh]

This show is so great. For all the people who were worried that it wouldn't work with Norma being dead, I feel like the show has become even more interesting and even fun in a freaky sort of way. There's an unexpected level of humor to all of this that makes it a lot of fun to watch. The dialogue between Norman and Norman have been my favorite parts about this new season. 

I'm glad that Dylan and Emma are happy but they're easily the least interesting thing about the show to me. 

Chick is a great character and I loved how nobody in the bar reacted to Caleb nearly kicking Chick's ass. It was like they see this shit all of the time. 

So Sam is having an affair with Norman's date or is he the character who will be involved with Rihanna Marion Crane? I'm hoping that Madeline lives. 

Agreed with those who feel like they're weirdly rooting for Norman over David Davidson. This guy is putting his wife in danger by lying to her. 

I still find it hard to believe that Dylan and Emma don't know when any random person in town knows. The fact that it made the local news and not one person reaches out to Emma? She'd lived in the town her entire life. What happened to her father, I can't recall. I just feel like they would have stumbled upon something via Facebook if nothing else. 

I haven't lived in my hometown in years, but I hear all kinds of news and gossip without seeking it out.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Avaleigh

[islandgal140]

And away we go.  Loved that there was significant movement this episode. I am left in this awkward untenable position where I can't wait a week for the next episode but yet the faster the week comes the sooner this series will be over. 

I'm surprised that Norman's mental version of Norma is as dimensional as it is. I was expecting Norman's 'mother' to have less of Norma's weird somewhat endearing quirkiness. 

I hated the Chick and Caleb drug story in the woods story. It is amazing how much more intriguing they all are now that they are folding into the main storyline, especially Chick. It is funny but he keeps reminding me of the wizard in the woods that communes with the animals in the movie Hobbit, Radagast. I expected to see bird shit in his hair when his hat is off.

 

It is amazing how much more sympathetic Chick has become, which all seemed to start last season when he began interacting with Norma. I am rooting for him to be one of the last ones standing. Seems like he is writing this all down, maybe he is meant to represent the author of the book? There does appear to be town gossip that Norma's death may have been at the hands of Norman but there is no proof. I don't believe Chick thought gentle Norman capable of violence. I think Chick had pieces of the puzzle (knows Norman is keeping Norma's body in a freezer in the basement) but hasn't known the full depth of Norman's mental illness until now. Maybe now he can see him being capable of murder. Next week's dinner with Chick and Norman/Norma is going to be made of awesome! I'm so glad I am off next week to enjoy! LOL!

I literally guffawed when Caleb walked into the kitchen and they showed the dog food bowl on the floor overflowing with food because of course Norman is feeding the imaginary dog. 

The other moment that made me chuckle was Norman oozing in smug when David Davidson turned out to be Sam Loomis. The looks Norman was giving Sam and then Norman popped the collar of his coat in a jaunty manner and sassily walked out the coffee shop door. The next scene Norman is on the front porch of his home and turns his collar down into its normal, natural position because I guess Mama Norma don't allow popped collars in her house. LOL! 

[luna1122]

Sam Loomis is the name of the man in the film who is sleeping with Marion Crane, so yeah, gonna assume he's going to be the guy doing Rhianna. It IS hilarious that he  is such a creep that he has us rooting for psychopathic Norman.

[TattleTeeny]

Was it supposed to be a big reveal that "David Davidson" was Sam Loomis? It seemed so clear from minute one that I actually feel like they came right out and said so last week. 

I am so, so happy that there's still so much Norma. When last season ended, I worried that we wouldn't see her very much. Oh, that actress is too fabulous!

Caleb's face keeps reminding me of Todd Chrisley.

[Lostinthehouse]

Last week we saw a brief glimpse of the woman with "David Davidson" in Room 1 of the Bates Motel.  As I recall, she had BIG hair - like 1960's-greaser-big-hair.  It's not hard to imagine that Rihanna (Marion Crane) would have big hair, and it's not hard to imagine that Sam Loomis would be with a woman of a different race.  But it's hard to understand that bit of anachronism -  Since the show takes place in the 21st century, why would a woman have intentionally over-teased hair?

[Madding crowd]

41 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

Was it supposed to be a big reveal that "David Davidson" was Sam Loomis? It seemed so clear from minute one that I actually feel like they came right out and said so last week. 

I am so, so happy that there's still so much Norma. When last season ended, I worried that we wouldn't see her very much. Oh, that actress is too fabulous!

Caleb's face keeps reminding me of Todd Chrisley.

I think Caleb looks a lot like Dylan-good casting there. Sam Loomis is a cheater, but I don't think he deserves to die. I am rooting against Norman, while still enjoying the heck out of the show. In previous seasons there was still a sweetness left in Norman, now I think it is all gone. I think with Norma's death-all the good parts of him are mostly gone. Even his friendship with Madeline is based on his mother obsession rather than a legitimate like.

I'm hoping Romero is left standing at the end and he is the one who gets Norman put away. I think Norman really has no idea what he is doing. I did find it interesting that he is imagining Norma learning French-seems kind of random. Hope Dylan and Emma stay far away but I don't think they will continue to just show them being happy so I have to be prepared for Dylan at least returning home. 

[peacheslatour]

Quote

The double-date scene and their sniping was priceless

It was, but in that scene and also in the bar scene (which I thought was brilliant) I kept waiting for Norman to be asked to show some ID. He is nineteen and the drinking age in Oregon is twenty one. I just thought it was odd.

[quangtran]

15 minutes ago, Lostinthehouse said:

Last week we saw a brief glimpse of the woman with "David Davidson" in Room 1 of the Bates Motel.  As I recall, she had BIG hair - like 1960's-greaser-big-hair.  It's not hard to imagine that Rihanna (Marion Crane) would have big hair, and it's not hard to imagine that Sam Loomis would be with a woman of a different race.  But it's hard to understand that bit of anachronism -  Since the show takes place in the 21st century, why would a woman have intentionally over-teased hair?

I was pretty sure that the carefully shot it so that we saw virtually nothing or the girl in Room 1, and going back to rewatch the scene (thus having to rewatch Norman masturbating) confirm that all that was shown was some of her hand and a quick silhouette.

[TattleTeeny]

Probably just some little style references to the movie, I assume--sort of like how Norma favors a retro aesthetic in her clothes and listens to music that might be before her time.

[Evie]

12 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

It was, but in that scene and also in the bar scene (which I thought was brilliant) I kept waiting for Norman to be asked to show some ID. He is nineteen and the drinking age in Oregon is twenty one. I just thought it was odd.

With the time jump it's Oct. 2017 so Norman is 21 or 22 now.

[Avaleigh]

17 minutes ago, Evie said:

With the time jump it's Oct. 2017 so Norman is 21 or 22 now.

Right. The tombstone shows that he was born in 1995.

[Nutjob]

I'm so glad Norma/Norman acknowledged the attraction to Madeline basically being all about because she looks like Norma, because we were all thinking it already. Ha! Even if Norman were, er, "normal," the poor friend was so very not his type, it wasn't even funny.

I kind of love this Norma. She's like temper tantrum, freaking out Norma all the time and it's my favorite.

Caleb is dead, right? I mean, we didn't see him die, but he's surely not gonna make it out alive...

[Stringey]

Wow the preview for the next episodes got me intrigued.  I wil need to look at this again but I think we saw things in that preview from Norman's delusional point of view. I swear I saw in the preview caleb hugging what appeared to be a real life Norma and smiling. If I saw that right it was obviously from Norman's delusional mind. And from the preview Norman does not kill chick at least not yet. I think chick is going along for the ride it appeared he was at the table with Norman. And we know that chick needs the income from his offer to work with Norman with the taxidermy thing. Also totally off topic hi but on demand the last several days it appeared that episode one disappeared from the listing but it was on there at first strange. However right now when I go on demand I see both episodes listed. Oh and forgot to mention I enjoyed the episode especially the later half.

6 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

It was, but in that scene and also in the bar scene (which I thought was brilliant) I kept waiting for Norman to be asked to show some ID. He is nineteen and the drinking age in Oregon is twenty one. I just thought it was odd.

Yep drinking age in California is also 21.

[Stringey]

7 hours ago, quangtran said:

I was pretty sure that the carefully shot it so that we saw virtually nothing or the girl in Room 1, and going back to rewatch the scene (thus having to rewatch Norman masturbating) confirm that all that was shown was some of her hand and a quick silhouette.

Lo I know we have seen Norman in sexual situations before but is it just me or was the masturbating thing weird even for him. It's not unexpected but just weird I started laughing. The remake of Psycho had Norman masturbating while he was watching Marion. This scene reminded me of that.

[KaveDweller]

9 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

I still find it hard to believe that Dylan and Emma don't know when any random person in town knows. The fact that it made the local news and not one person reaches out to Emma? She'd lived in the town her entire life. What happened to her father, I can't recall. I just feel like they would have stumbled upon something via Facebook if nothing else. 

I agree. This isn't 50 years ago where moving to a new state meant you hardly heard news of where you used to live.

But I can't remember...where Dylan and Norma on bad terms when he left? Did he know about Romero and Norman being hospitalized? I thought he did, but that they were in a pretty decent place, but Dylan just wanted to move with Emma and get a fresh start. Her dad was moving with them. So it is weird that Dylan would not try and talk to Norma once in that time. Or to at least check in on Norman.

[truthaboutluv]

19 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

But credit to Austin Nicholas act making Sam such a tool, that I'm siding with the creepy stalker in their battles.

This. It's not so much that I'm siding with Norman as I won't exactly be upset if he ends up killing the tool. 

12 hours ago, quangtran said:

It looks like Chick knew about pretty much everything since bringing over that casserole, and all their interactions since (including the ruse about taxidermy business) was just for the sake of pumping him for details for his book.

I don't think Chick knew everything. I think he knows that something is obviously not right with Norman - I mean the guy dug up his dead mother and keeps her body in his basement - so that's pretty obvious.  But I don't think he knew the extent of Norman's mental illness until this episode, especially based on his reaction, after Norman as Mother, hit Caleb. I also don't think the taxidermy business is a complete ruse. I just think he's writing a book along with it. 

9 hours ago, islandgal140 said:

I think Chick had pieces of the puzzle (knows Norman is keeping Norma's body in a freezer in the basement) but hasn't known the full depth of Norman's mental illness until now.

Basically this. Speaking of, I cracked up when Norman yelled out, "we can go to the basement", clearly trying to signal for his dead mother to hide because Chick was coming in and Chick responds, yelling back, "okay, great..." complete with slight side eye at Norman. 

Definitely loving the season so far. Unfortunately, I don't have A&E anymore, so I always have to wait the next day to watch it. But so far I really think the show runners are delivering and it makes me sad to think the show is ending but again glad that it looks like it will go out on a high. I agree that despite some of the concern about Norma being dead and the show not being the same, the writers are really making it work and doing it in a way that feels completely natural to the characters and storyline. 

Quote

But I can't remember...where Dylan and Norma on bad terms when he left? Did he know about Romero and Norman being hospitalized? I thought he did, but that they were in a pretty decent place, but Dylan just wanted to move with Emma and get a fresh start. Her dad was moving with them. So it is weird that Dylan would not try and talk to Norma once in that time. Or to at least check in on Norman.

Yes, Dylan and Norma were on bad terms when he left. He came to talk to her about recommitting Norman after Romero discussed the idea of he and Dylan doing it behind Norma's back. At that point Dylan had his suspicions that Norman might have done something to Emma's mother and Norma knew and was covering it up. When Dylan confronted with all of these things, she got mean and told him how he was always just jealous of Norman and Dylan basically told her she'd basically been a horrible mother to him. After he walked away, he saw Norman outside and hugged and told him goodbye and told him he was sick and needed help. 

That was the same episode where things came to a head with Romero and Norman basically attempted his murder/suicide plan. Dylan did call to check up on Norman a week or so later, at that point not knowing Norma was dead and Norman basically told him it was better for him to not call and forget him and Norma, which is basically what it seems Dylan has done. 

Edited March 1, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Fable]

I’ve always liked Chick, and his esteem went up in my eyes with the fact that once he realized Caleb had just learned about Norma’s death, even after everything, he showed some empathy.  He also didn’t out Norma’s secret to Romero last season, which also earned him some points.  He may be involved in some shady dealings, but deep down, he has been shown to have a compassionate nature. 

[Avaleigh]

8 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I think Caleb looks a lot like Dylan-good casting there. Sam Loomis is a cheater, but I don't think he deserves to die. I am rooting against Norman, while still enjoying the heck out of the show. In previous seasons there was still a sweetness left in Norman, now I think it is all gone. I think with Norma's death-all the good parts of him are mostly gone. Even his friendship with Madeline is based on his mother obsession rather than a legitimate like.

I'm hoping Romero is left standing at the end and he is the one who gets Norman put away. I think Norman really has no idea what he is doing. I did find it interesting that he is imagining Norma learning French-seems kind of random. Hope Dylan and Emma stay far away but I don't think they will continue to just show them being happy so I have to be prepared for Dylan at least returning home. 

Just to be clear, I agree that Sam Loomis doesn't deserve to die. I meant that I was rooting for Norman during the dinner with their back and forth bitchiness. 

I agree with you that the sweet Norman is as dead as Norma is. In fact, his sweetness died with her. It might have even died the day he found out about the marriage to Romero. 

I thought I remembered last season well but I'm confused as to why exactly Norman kept from telling Dylan what happened when he called. Why wouldn't he worry about the truth blowing up in his face at a later date? 

Also, what did Norma say to Dylan that Dylan can't get over? I remember her saying that Dylan was always jealous of Norman and her full on denial about Dylan trying to get her to see that Norman is dangerous, but I can't recall if she ordered him to stay away or if it's just something he decided to do because he felt that she'd severed the relationship.

40 minutes ago, Fable said:

I’ve always liked Chick, and his esteem went up in my eyes with the fact that once he realized Caleb had just learned about Norma’s death, even after everything, he showed some empathy.  He also didn’t out Norma’s secret to Romero last season, which also earned him some points.  He may be involved in some shady dealings, but deep down, he has been shown to have a compassionate nature. 

Chick is a surprisingly fascinating character. I didn't expect for him to grow on me but I'm hoping he makes it out of this craziness alive. The way he reacts to things is unpredictable and always amusing. This show is really nailing it with humor this season and he's a big part of that along with Norman and Norma. 

Edited March 1, 2017 by Avaleigh
I missed truthaboutluv's post before posting this.

[Mick Lady]

14 hours ago, Bec said:

He's not kidding about her always living in his heart. Also... playmate? I can just imagine Norman reading that to the tombstone engraver, he would spit out the word "wife" as if it's poison. And then towards the end he would start talking way too fast.

Oh Bec! When I found out what it said, I never thought of him reading it to the engraver! Thanks for a good laugh!

[Peanut6711]

14 hours ago, Bec said:

Is this the first time we saw that little playground set in front of Bates Motel? Out by a road in the middle of a parking lot is a great place to put a playground! (I know, I know, that was only put there so no one would dig up Emma's mom. But still. Couldn't he have put a gazebo there instead?)

I noticed it last episode too.  But I rather thought it was out further than where the pool was dug. 

9 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

Was it supposed to be a big reveal that "David Davidson" was Sam Loomis? It seemed so clear from minute one that I actually feel like they came right out and said so last week. 

I thought it was pretty obvious too. Plus one of the show runners confirmed it in an interview last week. 

8 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

Sam Loomis is a cheater, but I don't think he deserves to die. I am rooting against Norman, while still enjoying the heck out of the show. In previous seasons there was still a sweetness left in Norman, now I think it is all gone. I think with Norma's death-all the good parts of him are mostly gone. Even his friendship with Madeline is based on his mother obsession rather than a legitimate like.

Same here.  Adultery and murder are not of the same caliber. And personally, I find Norman's creepy attraction and stalker tendencies toward Madeline, a married women at that, far more disturbing than Sam, a guy clearly unhappy/unsatisfied in his marriage, having an affair.  Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's right that he's cheating on her; he'd be better to simply ask for a divorce. But Norman's actions at this point no longer produce any sympathy.  I'm looking forward to watching his downfall as with this being the final season, it's obviously the path things are going to take.

8 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

It was, but in that scene and also in the bar scene (which I thought was brilliant) I kept waiting for Norman to be asked to show some ID. He is nineteen and the drinking age in Oregon is twenty one. I just thought it was odd.

I thought he would be carded too. The would have actually been a good addition to the scene with the bartender asking for ID and Norman as Mother thinking that was absurd at her age.  Doesn't matter if the viewers know he's over twenty one; if his looks make it uncertain, the bar still has to ask for ID rather than risk getting in trouble. And it appeared he was in an upstanding establishment, unlike the hole in the wall joint that Chick and Caleb were hanging out at.  

[Bama]

That sassy collar pop as Norman took his leave from the coffee shop was simply amazing.

[ganesh]

The cut scene in the bar was fantastic. 

Chick is the master of understatement. I'm actually glad we're getting Caleb out of the way. The larger show down is between Romero and Norman. 

2 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

This isn't 50 years ago where moving to a new state meant you hardly heard news of where you used to live.

You change your phone number, block FB and twitter connections, and don't bother to look anything up. You tell new friends you had a falling out with your family and don't want to talk about it. It's not that unreasonable. It's actually the other way for me. You can set your FB to only be visible to friends, and Caleb said he looked them up. So they could have been even more isolated. 

2 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

I agree that despite some of the concern about Norma being dead and the show not being the same, the writers are really making it work and doing it in a way that feels completely natural to the characters and storyline. 

The thing I was going to miss was Norma interacting with other people besides Norman, but they found a clever way around that. 

Quote

Just to be clear, I agree that Sam Loomis doesn't deserve to die. I meant that I was rooting for Norman during the dinner with their back and forth bitchiness. 

Sam physically threatened Norman in the office. Norman has every right to defend himself. And hey, Loomis, you better hope there's no security video in there. 

[Chaos Theory]

3 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

I agree. This isn't 50 years ago where moving to a new state meant you hardly heard news of where you used to live.

 

Not everyone has Facebook.  News and gossip is like anything else you have to have someone give it to you.  I can see Emma and Dylan just being consumed with their own lives and not making too much of an effort to keep in touch with people who make no effort to keep in touch with them.

[Garden Wafers]

4 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Not everyone has Facebook.  News and gossip is like anything else you have to have someone give it to you.  I can see Emma and Dylan just being consumed with their own lives and not making too much of an effort to keep in touch with people who make no effort to keep in touch with them.

I can definitely see how Emma and Dylan could live in their own little bubble and miss news of Norma's death. It's only been eighteen months and Emma's not only undergone a double lung transplant, but she's also successfully navigated a high risk pregnancy (I can only imagine how her transplant team reacted when they found out she was pregnant less than a year post-transplant). By the time their lives stabilized and they went back on social media, I can see how Norma's death was no longer front page news. 

[ganesh]

To be fair, Emma said she does have an FB account, but that doesn't mean you can't block people. Plus, all the turmoil in their lives with Emma's health. It's very easy for me to buy that Dylan doesn't have one. I know people irl I work with that don't have them. 

I can totally by that some 21 y/o bonkers kid killed his mother and hid her frozen corpse in the basement, and oh, he dresses up like her and thinks she's alive. The facebook is well under that. 

[KaveDweller]

I know some people don't have Facebook or they block people, I just think it is rare for people to totally cut themselves off like that. Because even if you ignore social media there's email and cell phones and communication is just easier these days. Emma's father owned a store in town, he must have sold that at some point and would have had some communication with someone there. 

It's not the most ridiculous plot point on the show by any means.

[Lady Calypso]

4 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

I know some people don't have Facebook or they block people, I just think it is rare for people to totally cut themselves off like that. Because even if you ignore social media there's email and cell phones and communication is just easier these days. Emma's father owned a store in town, he must have sold that at some point and would have had some communication with someone there. 

It's not the most ridiculous plot point on the show by any means.

While I do agree that it's rare for people to completely be cut off and not receive important news from somebody, not even a condolence message from a town member, I get that they wanted to have a time jump and have the audience see Dylan's reaction once he hears about it. Plus, Dylan/Emma have been shown to not have any close ties with White Pine Bay besides with Norma, Norman, and Emma's dad so it's not totally unbelievable for them to not hear anything about Norma's death for 18 months. 

Caleb is a lot of things, and he's certainly not a great guy for raping his sister for years, but I could feel some sympathy for him when he heard about Norma's death. She meant the world to him so it's tough to lose someone that close. I love that he immediately knew that Norman killed her. And now Chick is getting information about that family that might lead to his death. I know one or both are probably going to die, but I'd rather they didn't. Since it's the final season, though, I can see them doing it anyway. 

It's hard to watch Norman now, seeing how far he's gone. His innocence is totally gone and even if he mostly believes that his mother is just faking his death, he's slowly morphing into Mother and it's hard now to distinguish Norman and Mother. 

Sam Loomis is definitely a dick, but I agree that he doesn't deserve to die for his dick behaviour. I am impressed by the casting for Sam's wife, though. There are many angles where I truly believe that she is a younger Vera Farmiga. 

I love what they're doing with Vera; I knew they'd be able to still use her, but they have really raised the bar with how they're doing it. That bar scene was brilliant. 

Brilliant ending to the episode, though. Very powerful to see Norman as Mother and reveal herself to Chick, all while Caleb discovered Norma's dead body and that could be one of the final images he sees before he dies. 

[Chaos Theory]

Did they ever say for sure whether what happened between Caleb and Norma was rape or consensual?  I always thought the show left it open ended on purpose.  Both Caleb and Norma admitted the relationship started consensual but then Norma ended it.  Caleb's reaction and what happened after is what is under debate.  Again Caleb was older so you could again say that it was rape regardless but my assumption has always been the relationship was consensual until it wasn't.

[ganesh]

10 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

While I do agree that it's rare for people to completely be cut off and not receive important news from somebody, not even a condolence message from a town member, I get that they wanted to have a time jump and have the audience see Dylan's reaction once he hears about it. Plus, Dylan/Emma have been shown to not have any close ties with White Pine Bay besides with Norma, Norman, and Emma's dad so it's not totally unbelievable for them to not hear anything about Norma's death for 18 months. 

Yes, it's rare, and this is quite a rare case. Getting a new cell phone, and you get a new number. Delete your contacts, etc. Clearly, they're not totally cut off because Emma does use FB, so it's not like they're hermits on a mountain. They had people over for a bbq. 

That hat, Norma. Yes. 

I'm hoping this isn't the beginning of a Caleb escapes plot and seeks revenge. I think his story is closed and he should go. 

[truthaboutluv]

31 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Did they ever say for sure whether what happened between Caleb and Norma was rape or consensual?  I always thought the show left it open ended on purpose.  Both Caleb and Norma admitted the relationship started consensual but then Norma ended it.  Caleb's reaction and what happened after is what is under debate.  Again Caleb was older so you could again say that it was rape regardless but my assumption has always been the relationship was consensual until it wasn't.

Yes this was more or less answered in my opinion. Norma admitted that the relationship started consensual because they were being raised by two mentally ill people and seemed to only have each other. However, Norma stated clearly that as she got older and made friends, it became clear to her that what they were doing was wrong and she decided to end it. Caleb didn't feel the same which is when it was without question rape. Caleb never denied Norma's version of things.

In his conversation with Dylan, when he got to the part of Norma wanting to end things because she realized it was wrong, he hesitated and only said, "you can't help who you love". And that is why I'm sorry, I've never given a crap about Caleb and his sad sack face and have even been disappointed every season where shockingly crazy Norman didn't kill him. I'm sorry, maybe it's harsh but I don't care about nutty Norman killing him and I don't think his death is any great loss to anyone. 

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Chick is the master of understatement

I agree. For all his scruffiness, he has a kind of elegance and refinement.

[Dobian]

So Chick is fully on board the Norman insanity train.  This is hilarious.  So many bad ends are coming.  Caleb, Romero, Chick when his usefulness to Norman runs out or he becomes a liability, blond Norma lookalike and her husband and friend/mistress.  The headstone was great, that's one expensive headstone, it was huge.  The epitaph of course was lovingly creepy.

[seashell]

Assuming Romero is destined for a bad end, that bad end better come at the very end of this series or I won't be watching anymore. For me the best part of this show was watching Vera and Nestor play off of each other and I really miss that now. I like Freddie but there's a limit to how much of Norman and dead Norma I'm willing to sit through.

[ganesh]

Romero v Norman seems to be the prime conflict for the final season. I think we're locked into movie canon with Romero, though I'm not super familiar with the movie, so it would make sense that he would be the last to go before the close of the series. 

[peacheslatour]

There was no Romero character in the movie. Norman was basically caught by Sam Loomis when Vera Miles discovered "Mother" in the cellar.

[Dobian]

1 hour ago, seashell said:

Assuming Romero is destined for a bad end, that bad end better come at the very end of this series or I won't be watching anymore. For me the best part of this show was watching Vera and Nestor play off of each other and I really miss that now. I like Freddie but there's a limit to how much of Norman and dead Norma I'm willing to sit through.

I think you'll be getting liberal doses of Norman and dead Norma for the rest of the season.  I'm still predicting that the final scene of the series will be Marion Crane checking in at the motel, a smiling Norman handing her a room key.

Edited March 1, 2017 by Dobian

[ganesh]

I thought the movie referenced a dead/missing sheriff?