S05.E13: Spectre Of The Gun

[jay741982]

1 hour ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I couldn't get past Oliver's convo with Thea. Susan is "good" at her job?!?! The woman who is basically prostituting herself for a story!?! Fuck this show! Why are they making their hero so fucking dumb?!

Cause they get off on him being dumb per MG. He said they get story mileage from him being dumb. Never mind it's stunting character development having the hero regress and look stupid every year. Shouldn't the title hero have a Brain? 

[jay741982]

51 minutes ago, benteen said:

Was anyone else concerned that Diggle and Dinah were (or are) getting too close?  I was afraid they were going to set up a "John cheats on his wife" storyline.

Ugh no take that back don't put that out there! You can't trust these dim writers!!

[Pete Martell]

2 hours ago, kismet said:

Guys, that live chat was fun! Thanks :) I remembered how much fun I used to have discussing Arrow.

That episode was horribad... They really should leave the big social/political episodes to higher caliber shows & writers room. #sorryNOTsorry

Especially when next week they will be back to killing a lot of people whether its guns or not. Somehow the message gets a little cloudy when your show is run on violence.

It reminds me of when General Hospital won a Daytime Emmy not long after Columbine, and the producer gave a lovely speech about gun violence...even though at the time, there were what seemed like monthly shootouts, glorified with slow motion, and even a disgusting scene where one of the "good" criminal characters used his son's stuffed animal to staunch his bleeding as he read his son a bedtime story. 

I don't know if a lot of Arrow viewers care about being told about gun violence. I don't, not because I disagree that it's a serious issue, but because I don't need out of touch television personalities to tell me so, especially since it wasn't that long ago that what seemed like 50 people were killed in an episode. It may not have been by guns, but I'm not sure if, "Kill people, just don't use guns," is the best message.

This type of episode is what you get when showrunners are too focused on the critics who tend to give them a pat on the head and endlessly talk about their "rejuvenation" (I think the show has been "rejuvenated" more times than Jocelyn Wildinstein at this point).

[Sunshine]

The good news about this episode is that Oliver finally had a reason to "save his city."  Since Tobias Church left there's been no real crime fighting.  Oliver's just been after Prometheus, who has been on vacation since 5.11. He is trying to destroy Oliver, not the city. :-)   The best way to save the city might be for Oliver to leave it.

[Trisha]

Oof, that episode was a stinker. And is it just me or is SA making some really, really weird acting choices this year? In this episode in particular it felt like he was putting emphasis on odd words, acting really pouty as the mayor and gesticulating a lot more than usual (especially in that last speech with the shooter). I also wonder if his petulant "so there" to Thea was a SA ad lib...

[catrox14]

That was a steaming pile of poop. What a terrible episode. Did everyone forget how to act? Were they cringing as they were reciting their lines, as much as I was watching it?  Egads.  What a disaster.

[benteen]

Quote

No, actually they had Oliver mention his mom and his sister and Tommy.  NONE OF WHICH WERE SHOT!!!!

Same thing I was thinking.  His mom and sister were the victims of sword violence and Tom got killed by a giant earthquake machine.

Now Oliver's father did commit gun violence on one of his employees before taking his own life.

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

There were lots of acting choices I don't get but Oliver's praise of Felicity making a break through in tracking down Prometheus's mother stood out.  Why did he act so surprised?  This is Felicity.  This is what she does.  And why again is she even hiding this data cache?  Just having it should not be seen as a problem.  The logic is just not there.  

That took me totally out of the episode. That's another mark in my ledger of Prometheus!Oliver or HumanTarget!Oliver being a thing.  It would make a lot more sense than what we are getting now

[HunterHunted]

3 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

So now I think less of Wild Dog than I did before.  Kid loses her mom and he instead of getting his life together, he goes out to beat up people and eventually join as a full time mask while he lets her stay in the foster care system.   

I don't see anything wrong with that. --John Winchester

So Rene's argument was that by being a responsible gun owner, his wife ended up dead?!?!? Or was he making some oblique concealed carry or open carry argument?!?!? Also his wife being a junkie who let her dealer into the house had far more impact on her mortality.

2 hours ago, KenyaJ said:

Seriously! It doesn't restrict gun sales or gun carry laws and it protects gun owners' rights. Great. Sounds like an NRA dream! It was so half-assed to not even attempt to describe what the ordinance restricted. 

It seriously sounds like an ordinance that codified the status quo. "We're going to continue doing what we've always, but make it seem we've done something new and better." After personally spending the past 24 hours working on legislation that exempts people and corporations from a license that doesn't currently exist because certain elected officials don't like regulations, I'm really not feeling shit like the Star City Gun Freedom Ordinance of bullshit, rainbows, safety, family, and freedom.

[wonderwall]

It's hilarious that Guggenheim, an actual lawyer, thinks that Oliver's bill can supersede the 2nd amendment though...

[Pete Martell]

18 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

It's hilarious that Guggenheim, an actual lawyer, thinks that Oliver's bill can supersede the 2nd amendment though...

I guess most of the people who oppose it will probably be killed off via some sort of disaster or criminal rampage anyway...

If Star City needs an ordinance on anything it's on people using the name Black Canary. 

Edited February 16, 2017 by Pete Martell

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, Pete Martell said:

If Star City needs an ordinance on anything it's on people using the name Black Canary. 

And Dinah!

[Pete Martell]

This episode was so '80s and the well-intended hypocrisy/blindness of the show on subjects like these is so '80s that I now know what it reminds me of - when DC Comics used to have "special issues" that would involve Superman, or Batman, or the New Teen Titans. Little Johnny would get shot in the street, or Little Jenny ran away from home, met up with a crack dealer, and ODed. Johnny or Jenny would be in a coma. Their enraged father would go nuts with a gun, or something, and Batman or Superman or Nightwing or Wonder Girl or Cyborg would appear to try to help, and give important moral lessons, and participate in some meaningless law being passed that would Make A Difference. In the last panel, Johnny or Jenny would wake up, as their father and mother would cry at how things are finally going to turn around. 

Green Arrow would not have been in those issues, because he would have told you it was feel-good bullshit that does nothing to help the people who are ODing, being shot, and generally being victimized in a million different ways while the superheroes are too busy playing cards in their orbiting satellite or dealing with evil versions of themselves killing their wives or getting laid or dealing with insane teenagers hooking up with tormented assassins and causing untold carnage before killing themselves. 

I'm not sure what that Oliver Queen would have to say about this Oliver Queen, but I don't think it would be very kind. 

(if you want to read a very good, and very depressing, variation of Oliver Queen's blundering "political" efforts, the Squadron Supreme mini-series from the '80s pretty much covers it). 

Edited February 16, 2017 by Pete Martell

[BkWurm1]

It just occurred to me that Tinah's weapon of choice is Sara's bow staff.  (Not her personal staff but her weapon of choice).  They really must regret killing Sara.  

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

It just occurred to me that Tinah's weapon of choice is Sara's bow staff.  (Not her personal staff but her weapon of choice).  They really must regret killing Sara.  

I love that she used it while undercover in a gang named The Pilgrims. Apparently pilgrims were big bo staff users. 

[statsgirl]

44 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

It's hilarious that Guggenheim, an actual lawyer, thinks that Oliver's bill can supersede the 2nd amendment though...

I think there are arguments that can be made.  Oliver actually made one when he said that all freedoms are limited. Freedom of speech for example.  It's illegal to yell Fire! in a crowded theatre if there is no fire.  Hate speech is illegal too,

The second amendment says "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. "  How do you regulate the  militia if there is no gun registry?  The conceal carry laws are another issue separate from the right to bear arms.   A friend of mine is a university prof and she says she would never teach at a university where concealed carry was allowed because she would be too afraid of being shot by a student that she gave a bad mark to.

So there is room for debate but this episode was far too heavy handed.  Major Crimes made the point better in their 3 x 15 Christmas episode.  A man wearing a Santa suit robs a bank and goes through a flash mob of Santas on his way out.  One of the Santas pulls out a gun and starts shooting, security guard shoots the bystander Santa thinking it's the thief. Point made.

It's ironic that this episode aired the day they repealed a law making it more difficult for people who are too mentally impaired to hold a job to own firearms.

[RobertDeSneero]

5 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

I hope there's more to this story? Something about his 'redemption' or whatever that amounts to more than him just thinking she's better off with a foster family and not even trying to get her back. I guess maybe Zoe's getting the William treatment - relevant for plot purposes and then never heard from again.

In the phone conversation flashback, he says he messed up and offers to seek counseling so that he can see his daughter.  CPS took her away due to an "unsafe environment".  I'm not sure how you get the impression that he hasn't tried to get her back.  He comes across as a man who tried but has given up and tried to convince himself that she is better off without him, but his smile at the end suggests that he still wants her back.

[BkWurm1]

17 minutes ago, RobertDeSneero said:

In the phone conversation flashback, he says he messed up and offers to seek counseling so that he can see his daughter.  CPS took her away due to an "unsafe environment".  I'm not sure how you get the impression that he hasn't tried to get her back.  He comes across as a man who tried but has given up and tried to convince himself that she is better off without him, but his smile at the end suggests that he still wants her back.

I got the impression that he wasn't trying because instead of putting down the bottle and getting his life together, he puts on a hockey mask and goes out beating up people and then joins a team full time to do it and then after nearly dying, still doesn't stop  or second guess his current choice but instead continues creating an unsafe environment for his daughter.  He is currently the issue but he's now further from being deemed good by child services now if they found out he's a full time mask than he was when he was just sad and drinking. Would he even be employed if Quentin hadn't taken pity on him? 

 

Back to the craziness of having Felicity be the one that doesn't think people should talk politics...she's currently supposed to be  in the middle of her arc where she's returning to her hacktivist days.  Do they really expect me to believe that Felicity,the one that previously has NEVER shied away from sharing her opinion and who spent college as a cyber activist  and is now reveling in returning to what she used to do, that she's the best candidate for not wanting to talk or debate about guns when she also just the previous year got totally shot up and left paralyzed if not for the chip??  How is any of this supposed to make sense?  

Edited February 16, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Starfish35]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

It just occurred to me that Tinah's weapon of choice is Sara's bow staff.  (Not her personal staff but her weapon of choice).  They really must regret killing Sara.  

Seriously? :(  Can Sara not have one thing that's just hers? 

(Sorry, I'm exhausted and in caffeine withdrawal and grumpy about stuff that doesn't matter - lol.)

[BkWurm1]

Just now, Starfish35 said:

Seriously? :(  Can Sara not have one thing that's just hers? 

(Sorry, I'm exhausted and in caffeine withdrawal and grumpy about stuff that doesn't matter - lol.)

No apologies needed.  It's really starting to bug me how unoriginal Dinah is.  

[thuganomics85]

Well, that was.... wait, what was it, really?

I kid, because I know what this totally was: A Very Special Episode, where Oliver and Friends deal with the hot topic issue of gun control.  And they do it in the most heavy-handed and most convoluted way possible.  I'm personally on the side of there should be more of it, but there was so much of it that didn't make any fucking sense.  Why is Rene saying that a gun could have saved his junkie wife, when it him shooting the dealer and him accidentally discharging his gun that killed her?  Why is Oliver using all the people he lost as examples of why he should implement it, when 3/4s of them weren't by a gun (Robert, yes.  The rest was death by sword, knife, and an entire building collapsing on him)  And the biggest one of them all: why exactly did this Ordinance of his end up doing, exactly?  I'm serious here, because even after everything, I still don't have a freaking clue what it changes.  It was so incoherent and mysterious, that it felt like the writers suddenly didn't want to alienate anyone, so they played it safe.  Dumb.  Just completely dumb.

And, really, why do I have to watch Rene and Curtis bicker about the guns, when if anyone should have an opinion about it, it would be Felicity.  I would have been invested if, say, she wanted more gun control, while Diggle is wary of it, due to some understandable mistrust with the government at the moment.  Thanks to their history, I would have actually been invested in it.  Instead, despite it being totally out of character, I was pretty much with Felicity on wanting them to both shut up.  I already miss Rory.  Come back, Ragman!

Rene's origin story held no surprises.  After warming up to him in the past few episodes, I'm back to caring less.

Dinah with Diggle was probably the most I liked her; likely due to the power of Diggle; until the final scene, when it felt like she was suddenly giving hm seductive looks.  Does Juliana Harkavy only know how to do smolder?  Better not try anything, because even with her powers, I would totally back Lyla in a fight!

Chase is totally Vigilante, right?

The highlight was the return of Thea and her hilariously shitting on Oliver's relationship with Susan, even after he tried to sway her.  It's not like Thea has been doing well in that department either, but even she sees how stupid this is.  I so can't wait for that to blow up in his dumb face.

So, yeah, that was as close to a flat-out bad episode since season three.  At least next week looks like it will fun, but I hope they cool their jets on trying something like that.  That goes for all of their shows.  I don't want to see The Flash suddenly having Barry deal with the immigration debate, or Supergirl having Kara and James argue over Black Lives Matter.  Surprisingly, the only DC show I could trust to not embarrass themselves would be Legends of Tomorrow, who somehow tends to be better at tackling controversial issues on their show.

[dtissagirl]

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Back to the craziness of having Felicity be the one that doesn't think people should talk politics...she's currently supposed to be  in the middle of her arc where she's returning to her hacktivist days.  Do they really expect me to believe that Felicity,the one that previously has NEVER shied away from sharing her opinion and who spent college as a cyber activist  and is now reveling in returning to what she used to do, that she's the best candidate for not wanting to talk or debate about guns when she also just the previous year got totally shot up and left paralyzed if not for the chip??  How is any of this supposed to make sense?  

I'm gonna take it as Felicity doesn't want to talk politics with the people on her team specifically, who all of a sudden weirdly sound like a rich waspy clueless arrogant white male showrunner, but she's way too polite to say THAT to them.

[jenrising]

Wow, that was a really terrible episode, hoss. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

36 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I'm gonna take it as Felicity doesn't want to talk politics with the people on her team specifically, who all of a sudden weirdly sound like a rich waspy clueless arrogant white male showrunner, but she's way too polite to say THAT to them.

This I can get behind, LOL. During the whole episode I was thinking "stop talking you are giving me second hand embarrassment" so I can relate.

[cambridgeguy]

Oliver Queen running around and stopping crime with a bow and arrow is more realistic than Oliver Queen coming up with a meaningful contribution to the gun control debate in 24 hours.

Also, Mayor Queen should be flanked by a platoon of bodyguards at this point.  He was almost gunned down as a candidate (when Felicity got shot), was kidnapped in the season premiere, and City Hall has now been shot up.  Maybe the budget is stretched to thin to cover the costs?

[apinknightmare]

5 hours ago, RobertDeSneero said:

I'm not sure how you get the impression that he hasn't tried to get her back.

I'm under that impression because based on what we were shown last night, instead of trying to better himself so he could see his kid after he was told he couldn't - and fix all the issues that he was told were the reasons why - he chose to put on a mask and go be a vigilante. It's cool if he wants to try and get her back now that Curtis mentioned it to him - but that he seemingly was okay leaving her with a foster family leaves a bad taste. 

[benteen]

Quote

Back to the craziness of having Felicity be the one that doesn't think people should talk politics...she's currently supposed to be  in the middle of her arc where she's returning to her hacktivist days.  Do they really expect me to believe that Felicity,the one that previously has NEVER shied away from sharing her opinion and who spent college as a cyber activist  and is now reveling in returning to what she used to do, that she's the best candidate for not wanting to talk or debate about guns when she also just the previous year got totally shot up and left paralyzed if not for the chip??  How is any of this supposed to make sense?  

Yeah, I thought it was out of character for her not to want to discuss this at all considering she always speaks her mind.  Once again, Arrow's writers write their characters to fit their scripts instead of writing their scripts to fit their characters.  It's bad writing.

I  can understand her trying to stop a heated conversation between her teammates while they are in the middle of doing their job though.

Great job bringing up the point that Felicity was the victim of gun violence.  I had actually forgotten that with how ridiculous her paralyzed storyline ended.  Though her shooting was the result of an "criminal mastermind" and his organization as opposed to random gun violence or as the result of the mass shootings that you see today.  Damian Darhk would get weapons anywhere.

Edited February 16, 2017 by benteen

[LeighAn]

Sounds like I picked a good week to go on a work conferrence. I'm not missing anything

[Chaser]

13 minutes ago, benteen said:

Yeah, I thought it was out of character for her not to want to discuss this at all considering she always speaks her mind.  Once again, Arrow's writers write their characters to fit their scripts instead of writing their scripts to fit their characters.  It's bad writing.

I  can understand her trying to stop a heated conversation between her teammates while they are in the middle of doing their job though.

Great job bringing up the point that Felicity was the victim of gun violence.  I had actually forgotten that with how ridiculous her paralyzed storyline ended.  Though her shooting was the result of an "criminal mastermind" and his organization as opposed to random gun violence or as the result of the mass shootings that you see today.  Damian Darhk would get weapons anywhere.

This is interesting. I just read an op on tumblr that said Felicity was a white victim of a terrorist act and this episode was about poc victims of random gun violence therefore Felicity's thoughts on gun control aren't relevant. 

Personally I find that a flawed argument.

[Tazmania]

While Suzy got a lot of hate in absentia from Thea (you go girl) I find nuBC to be even more annoying than Suzy Snoozefest. Like she is the best bo staff fighter already coz she went undercover with a street gang (who the fuck goes undercover for street gangs yo?) and she was making faces that were either turned on or orgasmic ... and it was not just with Diggle or Oliver, she was turned on talking to everything and everyone, Felicity, Curtis, the computers and the wall .... like WTF! 

[apinknightmare]

17 minutes ago, Chaser said:

This is interesting. I just read an op on tumblr that said Felicity was a white victim of a terrorist act and this episode was about poc victims of random gun violence therefore Felicity's thoughts on gun control aren't relevant. 

Personally I find that a flawed argument.

Yeah, same.

Had Curtis been the victim of gun violence? I was under the impression that he was arguing from a place of fear and statistical likelihood of being a victim, not from his actual experience as one. 

And Rene wasn't a victim of random gun violence, either. And the shooting at City Hall WAS a terrorist attack? Like...that argument makes no sense. 

[Tazmania]

Btw ... how easy it is to get a job with SCPD and that too directly as a detective without any background checks and stuff. I don't really know how police recruitment works if you have previously worked in the force but I do know that under cover work is very different from regular detective stuff and they are not that easy to switch from one to another. 

[apinknightmare]

There are basically no requirements to be an SCPD officer. You don't even need to be able to hit the broad side of a barn with a machine gun. They're so short-staffed that if you want in? You're in.

[insomniadreams88]

I'm pretty sure the only requirement to be an SCPD officer is you have to be willing to live in Star City.

[Primetimer]

It's a Very Special Episode as everyone debates the pros and cons of gun control for an hour. Really.

View the full article

[ComicFan777]

I really don't know what to make of Curtis's strong position about anti-guns.  Granted, I don't remember if when he was threatened with a gun when he got mugged at the beginning of the season or not.  However, Felicity did save his life using a gun against Double Down, so a gun saved him from cards.

[Midnight Lullaby]

Well Curtis was MG so that's why.

[Chaser]

With their experiences, It would have made more sense to have Felicity and Rene connecting in this episode. Curtis could have played the Felicity role.

[Tazmania]

Btw ... everything that was mentioned on the show regarding foster care, I just wanted to scream at my tv and say .... it doesn't work like that ...

Guggenheim is Anastasia Steele level of stupid. 

And now I think Anastasia Steele and Oliver Queen are totally OTP material, because no two dumber fictional characters ever lived ... they are extra special

Edited February 16, 2017 by Tazmania

[LeighAn]

7 minutes ago, Tazmania said:

Btw ... everything that was mentioned on the show regarding foster care, I just wanted to scream at my tv and say .... it doesn't work like that ...

Guggenheim is Anastasia Steele level of stupid. 

And now I think Anastasia Steele and Oliver Queen are totally OTP material coz no too dumber fictional characters ever lived ... 

Haha that comment is gold. I couldn't get through Fifty Shades because the sex scenes couldn't make up for me how inanely stupid and demented I found Anna. 

I don't know that Oliver is there yet but he's getting close.

[benteen]

Just for once I'd like to think that Oliver is playing the long game and knows that Susan is onto him.  But Oliver literally is not that smart.

I agree that I think getting his daughter back will be Rene's endgame.  His life really isn't good for a kid.

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, Chaser said:

This is interesting. I just read an op on tumblr that said Felicity was a white victim of a terrorist act and this episode was about poc victims of random gun violence therefore Felicity's thoughts on gun control aren't relevant.

The City Hall shooter was a white guy who had lost his family to a mall shooting so that argument doesn't make any sense.  The original mall shooting also sounds like it was a domestic terrorist attack so absolutely relevant.

If MG wanted to make a statement about the gun debate, he made three big mistakes in this one:

• The ordinance at the end was nothing and thus terrible. 
• The cop-out that the original mall shooting was with an illegal gun.  There's a correlation between the number of legal guns and the number of illegal guns in a country.  Limit the number of legal guns and there are fewer illegal ones (going by international stats).
• When ER did a shooting episode, they weren't a show where the majority of the action is dependent on violence.  Ditto LA Law and the other shows he referenced. MG's biggest mistake was picking a topic where no matter what a character said either pro or con, they would be a hypocrite.

I just watched Carly Pope on Suits last night and I'm wondering about her acting choices on Arrow because wow, her character on Suits is so much more relatable than Susan Williams.  Warmer, more caring, just overall nicer.

Edited February 16, 2017 by statsgirl

[tv echo]

You know what's worse than Lying Oliver?  Preachy Oliver. His multiple speeches in this episode (esp. to the gunman and to the public) were cringe-inducing.  Oliver also expresses concern that he, as the Green Arrow, is just contributing to the "vicious cycle" of meeting violence with violence.  So I guess he's going to stop being the Green Arrow, right? No?

And Felicity gets thrown under the bus again. In this MG-written episode, the newer characters that're being propped up this season get the desired and popular viewpoints. Curtis is the mouthpiece for MG's position that issues must be debated out loud. Rene and Dinah are the mouthpieces for the pro-gun rights position, a position that is undoubtedly popular with the target male demo for this show. Felicity gets to be the mouthpiece for the position that MG thinks is wrong (that we shouldn't talk about such issues), despite the fact that she of all people should and would want to talk about this issue.

So Felicity wasn't sure if her relationship with Malone was "real", but Oliver is already "getting pretty serious about Susan"? WTF?! Although Susan's absence from this episode is puzzling. You'd think a reporter would have a role to play in an episode about a city hall shooting. Where was she at the press conference? Did I miss something? Is she abstaining from doing her job just because she and Oliver had sex?

Rene's back story is predictable and unoriginal. Rene has a 12-year-old daughter? How old is Rene supposed to be? And we're supposed to believe that Rene's back story led to his pro-gun stance? Arguably, if he hadn't had a gun, maybe his wife wouldn't have been shot and killed.

Dinah is saying lines that could've been said by Laurel in the Arrow bunker scenes. It's like they replaced Laurel with Dinah on the team just to get rid of KC.  By the way, Dinah has more chemistry with Diggle (who's married) and Quentin (who's already been married to a Dinah) than she does with Oliver.* Bad news for the EPs if they are positioning her as a next-season love interest for Oliver. But still, a big NO to any Dinah/Diggle romance. 

(* In fact, a few media reviewers - IGN and ScreenCrush - have commented on the chemistry between Dinah and Diggle.)

Adrian Chase is married? I guess the person he lost wasn't his wife. Here's a thought - could Doris Chase be Dinah's sister? Or maybe Susan's sister? They look similar enough to be related.

This episode was the worst episode of the season and arguably the worst episode of the series. It was a very simplistic depiction of a very complicated issue. Oliver's "citywide gun control ordinances" sounded like no gun control at all (Oliver: "Nothing that makes it harder to buy or own or carry a gun." Rene: "It also doesn't prohibit people from protecting themselves from gun violence.") Contrary to what the Rene/Curtis debate seemed to indicate, it isn't a choice between (1) prohibiting citizens from having any guns at all and (2) allowing citizens to have guns freely and without restriction. Just like with free speech, there's an in-between ground where reasonable restrictions can be imposed - but that's a debate for another forum.

This was the wrong show to discuss gun control. This show glamorizes gun violence and killing in virtually every episode, whether it's done with bullets or arrows or swords. What are James Bamford's and Corey Robson's jobs? To make violence look cool.  In fact, this season was promoted last summer by talking up an increased focus on fighting (violence). As highlighted by SA last year: "Oliver kills half a dozen people in the pilot episode of the season."

And you know what's worse?  Next episode, this show will just go back to normal - with Oliver and Team Arrow shooting people, and the Arrow b-t-s crew doing their best to make violence on the show look beautiful.

Edited February 16, 2017 by tv echo

[nitrofishblue]

This was the first episode that had me pissed off. I am a 73 year old retired female. I worked in the male dominated field of electrical engineering. I also spent four years in the Army. I have my Conceal Carry license and have been an NRA member for years. I felt so aggravated  during the show. It was like someone on the producing staff had an agenda that needed to be forced down our throats. I found so much wrong with the weak arguments about gun control. Like the script was written by someone who didn't have a clue. Not sure if I want to continue watching if this trend continues. I watch not because of the wonderful writing (not) but the fact that I like action adventure themed shows. Something outside the realm of reality with a touch of fantasy. I binge watched Defiance this morning just to get my brain rearranged. 

[finnaire]

I didn't hate that, actually.  It wasn’t preachy or condescending and, for the most part the positions stated fit the characters. The discussion started between Wild Dong and Curtis, neither of whom had yet been involved in a mass shooting situation since they joined the team so that didn’t feel out of place and the issue of the gun legislation didn’t come up until it was discovered as the shooter’s motive. So, I thought they were able to transition the subject into the episode just fine. 

I liked the first press conference where Oliver came off as a noncommittal politician to the reporters knowing the possession he was in. On the one hand, as Oliver Queen, he wants to speak out against guns but because he’s also Green Arrow, he sees his own hypocrisy and the duality frustrates him.  I also like the fact that he realized there are consequences to his job as mayor and his inexperience and half assed attention to it effect a lot of people. Sucks to have responsibilities and people relying on you.

I didn’t want or need the show to tell me where to stand or give me the answer because, obviously, there isn’t an easy one and it's an issue no one agrees on completely. I appreciated the fact that they ended on a hopeful note that maybe reasonable people can come together, find common ground and make some progress.  In this often depressing and chaotic time, it's nice to be reminded that sanity can still be found, though, apparently, not by DA Chase who was giving the side eye of foreshadowed doom. Ollie, Vigilante maybe gunning for you (so to speak).

I liked the directing on this one too.  There were a lot of wide shots so it didn’t feel as claustrophobic as a lot of the episodes have been.  Apparently, there really are people still living in Star City, I was beginning to wonder it they actually existed.  And, hail to the dogs, Thea still hates Suzy, as she should. She was the voice of the audience there, amirite?  Oliver, go ahead and develop your “feelings” for the shady reporter (who is so busy looking into her boyfriend/lover/NY Times Top 10 Best Sellers subject’s past that she missed the big story) because I know a couple of fantastically smart, badass women who I think might take her down. Don’t disappoint me Felicity and Thea.

[misstwpherecool]

14 hours ago, statsgirl said:

My respect for both Oliver and Rene just dropped tenfold.  Oliver for being such an idiot for picking Susan over Thea, the sister he's sworn for  five years he loves more than anything and for being such a wimp about the gun argument, and Rene for making his daughter lose both her parents.

And the worst thing was that they ignored Felicity.

That's why.  The argument would have been done then.

Yes and no. Even wild dog reminded Curtis-'...what we do...' .

Felicity and others also have tech and vigilante no holds barred back up so her perspective would be a little different. But this is why politics and tv shows are a dicey proposition including alienating or misleading viewers. Especially over the last year.

My reaction was oh goody another gun control debate and was quite predictable the second they said AR-15.  I looked at Felicity as the moderator which they needed if they were going to interject political topics like an equal time thing. I will say they didn't prolong the scenes with the usual talking points.

I thought Oliver should've mentioned the murder of his mother and friends when trying to talk the guy down. I don't think they used it. Also applying to a police department yet with unaccounted for time, lie detector tests, background checks etc, eh?

[catrox14]

So are they gonna take this episode and do something that changes how Team Arrow does it's vigilante-ing? Because honestly, I'm trying to see this as one off, that doesn't matter except to tell us Wild Dong's origin story.

[DeadZeus]

Hate that though of Oliver feeding in to the cycle of Violence. It's been said multiple times the city was violent and unhealthy before he started doing his thing. Why do they need Oliver to second guess himself every episode it's getting annoying. Just let him have a mission and let him carry it out...

[BkWurm1]

5 hours ago, Chaser said:

This is interesting. I just read an op on tumblr that said Felicity was a white victim of a terrorist act and this episode was about poc victims of random gun violence therefore Felicity's thoughts on gun control aren't relevant. 

Personally I find that a flawed argument.

How can it be an episode about persons of color and gun violence when it was random targets at City Hall?  Baffling. 

 

2 hours ago, misstwpherecool said:

Yes and no. Even wild dog reminded Curtis-'...what we do...' .

Felicity and others also have tech and vigilante no holds barred back up so her perspective would be a little different. But this is why politics and tv shows are a dicey proposition including alienating or misleading viewers. Especially over the last year.

My reaction was oh goody another gun control debate and was quite predictable the second they said AR-15.  I looked at Felicity as the moderator which they needed if they were going to interject political topics like an equal time thing. I will say they didn't prolong the scenes with the usual talking points.

I thought Oliver should've mentioned the murder of his mother and friends when trying to talk the guy down. I don't think they used it. Also applying to a police department yet with unaccounted for time, lie detector tests, background checks etc, eh?

Felicity as the moderator worked at first and made sense to keep the episode moving along, but then MG took reasonable behavior and threw her under the bus by making her the bad guy of the episode for not wanting to talk about it.  Some how I find it more egregious knowing that that position wasn't his plan going into the episode, just that he was struck that he could turn her "let's get back to the business at hand" tone and twist it into what he thinks is most wrong with discourse.  And he spelled just that out in his interviews!  So lazy.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Arrow Takes On The Second Amendment

It's a Very Special Episode as everyone debates the pros and cons of gun control for an hour. Really.