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S04.E01: Echoes

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Please refrain from posting here until AFTER the episode has aired.  I do not wish to lock the thread, but if this keeps up, I will.

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tap. tap.. Is this thing on?  I don't think the thread is locked.

Okay, I'll start.  A little too much political jockeying, but love it when the OG are together.  Also, Show, please don't kill Jasper.  No matter how Emo he gets.   Nice to see King Roan and his abs.  And Skye and Bellamy working together.  

Why is Jaha still around?  I don't get the point of his character.

I think they're trying to set Bellamy up with Echo, but I'm not feeling it.

More adventure and stopping the end of the world, less the 100 13 clans/who-gets-to-keep-the-flame politics.

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9 minutes ago, MostlyC said:

Also, Show, please don't kill Jasper.  No matter how Emo he gets.  

Ehhh. I've been wishing his death since the beginning of last season. I've had more than enough of his man pain and whining.

I really need them to get my original delinquents back together again. The show is at its best when they're together plotting things and making shit happen.

Im happy Murphy and Emori are ok and together. I kinda love them doing their own thing but I hope they hook up with Clarke and her crew soon. Murphy needs people he doesn't like to snark on. Emori makes him a little soft.

My favourite moment was probably Octavia showing off her warrior skills and taking those Ice Nation guards out. I love kick ass Octavia so much! Though I think she might have a little too much rage at the moment.

Of course it also goes without saying but it sucked that there wasn't nearly enough Raven in the episode. I could have done with a fewer Roan/Echo scenes and more Arkadia stuff instead. I hope the show does better with the balance in the future. 

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2 hours ago, MostlyC said:

I think they're trying to set Bellamy up with Echo, but I'm not feeling it.

Nothing says upcoming Becho upcoming romance as Echo's numerous betrayals, her being at fault of blowing up Bellamy's girlfriend (that was blown up 2 weeks ago in the show's timeline) and another bunch of people, threatening and trying to kill Bellamy's best friend and another bunch of Bellamy's people and stuff like that. If Clarke could do that with Lexa, I'm sure it'd be great for all other characters.

Now we just need for Murphy to broke up with Emori and get together with Raven, whom he's crippled for life.

Edited by CooperTV
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I think they're trying to set Bellamy up with Echo, but I'm not feeling it.

This is annoying. They already had Clarke falling for someone (Lexa) who had betrayed her and her people and had been in charge of an army that had killed a lot of her people, and who had on many occasions tried to wipe out her people (not to mention being responsible for ordering Finn's death, Clarke's first love). Going down this road with Bellamy/Echo, especially given how destroyed Bellamy was because of Echo's betrayal...eh, horrible relationship plot and just horrible in general. Still hated it as a plot point for Clarke, would hate it for Bellamy. 

Tonight's episode felt almost too fast paced. Everything happening in a bit of a whirlwind. I hope the season isn't as fast-paced continually. I think I'd like to see some deeper character development that takes a little more time, and there is so much repair these relationships need and I would love to see that repair on screen. Yes, the apocalypse is nigh, but I still would like character development. Especially after so many WTF moments we saw in S3 with the characters. 

Edited by Calypzo
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13 hours ago, dippydee said:

Ehhh. I've been wishing his death since the beginning of last season. I've had more than enough of his man pain and whining.

As soon as he swiped the gun I said, "Oh, thank god." But then - with the whole set up, I just knew he'd be interrupted. DAMN IT!

Also, more Roan abs. Please? Thank you.

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1 hour ago, piequinn35 said:

Roan is not a nightblood?

All nighbloods are dead or unavailable, as far as this show is concerned.

Edited by CooperTV

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This was a bit of tie up some lose ends and set-up, which I didn't mind because a first episode of a new season should do that. There were some things that was a bit iffy (like the sudden explanation of why Raven could code, which was obviously inserted after fans critizsed a mechanic being a master coder last season), but there was also some things that worked.


I can't say I was glued to the screen. Things kinda moved along at a slow pace and yet it went through a bunch of stuff? Like the events that took place, several of them were big, but it hobbled through them.


I was really glad to see Indra again, and the hug with Kane was so sweet and so Indra with how she did it. The moment between Kane and Abby with Clarke observing was really well done, and Abby and Clarke scenes are always powerful.


The plot was a bit weak at points, like Clarke and Abby suddenly by the door to the room with Roan despite us seeing maybe around 50 people guarding that small area. It is pretty unrealistic they could sneak past all of that.


Octavia, Indra, Kane and Abby make for a very interesting group that I'm actually intrigued and looking forward to see how they work together and interact. The setup

Spoiler

also seems to explain why Octavia becomes an Ice Nation assassin. They need/want to keep Roan in power, so she gets sent out to do the dirty work. One thing that is a bit weird is I would think the Ice Nation got plenty of assassins on their own that have trained for decades unlike a few months like Octavia.


While I enjoyed Roan last season, I'm already feeling a bit bored by him? Zach (whose name wasn't even spelled right in the credits) isn't really giving me much in the sense of a powerful presence at the moment. He is pretty reactive as a character instead of proactive, and rather predictable as a player at the moment. Echo on the other hand as a player was interesting, and it fit that she would adapt constantly and try to move things in favor of the Ice Nation after we learn that she is both part of the Royal Guard and a trained Spy. Hopefully he will become more of a force to be reckoned with, since he is a regular now so he will probably have a significant amount of screen time.


For potential Bellamy and Echo pairing, Imma withhold judgement. Would feel be pretty hypocritical not to considering other pairings on the show. For example Kane shock lashed Abby and they were antagonists at first, but they are together now and in general people like them including myself. Emori/Murphy is another overall favorite that involved betrayals but from looking around fandom and various media sites, people like them and they work rather well. The show managed to develop them in a way that made them work. I'm a bit hard pressed to think of a couple that has never had problems with betrayal.

Any other significant couple canon or fanon also got aspects of betrayal that I can think of. Even fanon ship like Bellamy and Clarke that got the 2nd biggest fanbase have numerous betrayals and a shit ton of dishonesty between them. I.e. S1 Bellamy -> manipulating and using the 100 to get everyone on the Ark killed including Clarke's mom -> S2 Clarke betrayed Bellamy's and his trust when she lied about Octavia who she knows is his number one priority -> decided to not warn Octavia about the bomb -> S3 Bellamy stabbed Clarke in the back when he manipulated her, crossed the line into verbally abusive and took her prisoner to hand over to Pike that would interrogate her and then put a bullet into her head.

Only ship with I can think off that has a foot into canon and some fanbase without betrayal currently is Raven and Bellamy, that despite Bob's and Lindsey's support is very unlikely.

I think what matters with regard to the show for me, is if the show can make a pairing work. With Echo they are at least already putting in some more work towards trying to redeem herself for her betrayal than they did with Bellamy betraying Clarke in S3. She outright apologized to him for it in front of her people, and explained her actions. They have made Kane and Abby work, so I won't rule out Echo and Bellamy, though I think Bellamy deserves absolutely no one after his actions in S3.


For other couples I honestly don't care for Harper and Monty. It came out of nowhere and Harper is such a non-character despite having been here since S1. One episode with Ontari gave us more than we gotten about Harper (I would argue Harper and Monty is currently a non-working pairing. I don't think many if anyone really cares about their relationship truly?).


Murphy though tends to be a bit of a VIP. His scenes here were good, and it is refreshing to have someone around that isn't all up in the 'big picture', and make decisions based on something that isn't "For My People".  Him and Emori remain rather sweet but I don't want them to be off at their own. I think it would be more interesting with having them around one of the two narrative areas (Polis and Arkadia currently).


Jaha and Jasper are of zero interest to me, and the former really should had face some sort of consequences, but in true the 100 fashion, if they are Arkers, they have a ridiculously high chance of avoiding any real consequences as long as they brood. Finn being the only real exception but the actor wanted off the show badly.

I don't see what Jaha as a character can really offer, except maybe some stuff about Becca/ALIE that the rest don't know. I honestly don't get why he is allowed to wander around by any of the factions on the show.

In not liking the 'foreshadowing' of Raven having trouble with her leg. I get that Raven didn't solve her issues last season. She just made herself immune to the pain so it is the show actually having continuity. But for once, here I would be absolutely fine if the show didn't. Would be nice if Raven could be a badass mechanic with scenes of friendship and also involvement in the moral decision making instead of another trip down paintown

 

On 2/2/2017 at 8:41 AM, Calypzo said:

This is annoying. They already had Clarke falling for someone (Lexa) who had betrayed her and her people and had been in charge of an army that had killed a lot of her people, and who had on many occasions tried to wipe out her people (not to mention being responsible for ordering Finn's death, Clarke's first love).

Lexa's army caused over S1 and S2 maybe the grand total of 40ish deaths of the Arkers vs. 300 warriors + 300 defence force + the bridge blowing up a bunch, and unknown amount of civilians (minimum 18 from Finn + the village burnt down in S1 + the peace negotiations Jasper opened fire on + the deaths caused by ALIE that Jaha brought to Polis). The numbers of casualties for the Grounder side is at least over 7 times higher, if not 10 times than what the Grounders have inflicted on the Arkers. Bellamy and Kane has caused the death of 3 times more Arkers within the first half of S1 than the all Grounders managed throughout the entire series. So it is in my opinion rather disingenuous to present it that way. Not to mention they have numerous times been told to leave the lands they are invaders on. They were even offered free passage but they decided that it was their lands now.

And lets be real here, Finn caused his own death when he gunned down 18 innocent civilians. Saying Lexa caused his death is like saying the death of the serial killer Pee Wee is the fault of the judge, and not his actions of murdering a bunch of innocent people. Though the judge in our world wasn't going to be murdered by his own people if he let Pee Wee go, unlike Lexa whom we were explicitly told would be killed if she didn't demand Finn's death.

Edited by Gabe Torres
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Unpopular opinion: The show would be 10x better if they got rid of Clarke. Between her designated sad face, her constant manipulation, the writers' tendency to attribute every victory as her doing regardless of the role others play and everyone becoming incompetent in her vicinity so she can look good, I'm just tired of her. 

I have no problem with any other character, not even the mostly-hated Jasper whose PTSD storyline I started to like at the end of the last season and whose storyline has plenty of potential now that he's going to start living, because he expects the end of the world to be there in six months time.

 

Edited by shireenbamfatheon · Reason: grammar
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6 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

I barely remember his girlfriend from the mountain.

The 100 is so non-sequitur with this, though. Maya was killed three months ago. Clarke had got over Wells's death after a week and never mentioned him again. Clarke pretty much doesn't give a fig she killed Finn (who everyone, including Jason and Eliza call her true love, BTW) and only person who remembers Finn for plot purposes is Raven. Gina was fridged and will never be mentioned again in any context outside Bellamy's "devotion" to Clarke. Lexa (who was a huge part in Finn's death and who is also Clarke's true love (because relationship writing on this show makes total sense) had more time spend on Clarke's mourning her than she ever mourned her 1st True Love or Wells (the person she knew since childhood).

Is Monty allowed to fall apart for three months after he killed his mother twice or should he also get over it, as Hannah was a garbage person and it was two weeks ago already?

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Ugh, I turned this off after 20 minutes and took it off my viewing roster.  More of the same crap from previous seasons.  This show has sucked for a while now and it didn't get any better during the off-season. 

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15 hours ago, CooperTV said:

The 100 is so non-sequitur with this, though. Maya was killed three months ago. Clarke had got over Wells's death after a week and never mentioned him again. Clarke pretty much doesn't give a fig she killed Finn (who everyone, including Jason and Eliza call her true love, BTW) and only person who remembers Finn for plot purposes is Raven. Gina was fridged and will never be mentioned again in any context outside Bellamy's "devotion" to Clarke. Lexa (who was a huge part in Finn's death and who is also Clarke's true love (because relationship writing on this show makes total sense) had more time spend on Clarke's mourning her than she ever mourned her 1st True Love or Wells (the person she knew since childhood).

Is Monty allowed to fall apart for three months after he killed his mother twice or should he also get over it, as Hannah was a garbage person and it was two weeks ago already?

 

I agree with the overall point you're making, but I just want to mention that Gina's murder was mentioned in the season premiere. But yeah, The 100 is terrible when it comes to this. Seems like the only character who mourned/are mourning their loved ones for a longer period of time are Octavia, Raven and Jasper, though I think with Jasper it has more to do with his PTSD than just Maya's death. Realistically everyone would be as screwed up as Jasper, especially Raven and Bellamy taking into account the number of times they've been tortured/beaten/almost killed, and of course Monty for what happened to his mom (though the trailer gives the impression that he's not doing so well either). 

The strangest part is the extent of Clarke's love for Lexa. I'm not sure if Rothenberg is trying to appease fans of this ship, but regardless it seems that her death made more of an impact on her than Wells of Finn's deaths. Hell, she wasn't even that affected when she thought her mother had died back in season one as she is by Lexa's death, who she was with for like a week.

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20 minutes ago, shireenbamfatheon said:

I agree with the overall point you're making, but I just want to mention that Gina's murder was mentioned in the season premiere.

Wait, you're right! Echo went all "I'm sorry I couldn't tell you to bring the girl" like the creeper she is. Although I'm blanking on how would Echo know about Gina's specific importance to Bellamy?

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Oh, yeah, this show is back!  Kind of forgot about it.

That said, a decent enough premiere, even though a lot it seem to be putting the pieces on the board and setting everything up.  Nothing too major or surprising happened.  Abigail was able to save Roan, so he has reinstated the coalition.... for now.  Raven finds proof that the nuclear holocaust will happen, so they are totally boned if they don't figure it out in six months.  Jasper is still suicidal.  No one really trust one another, but they need each other.  Murphy will be separated from the rest of the main cast again.  Jaha is still hanging around.  No significant deaths.  An average day for The 100 crew!

Octavia killing those three guys was badass.  Glad that Indra is still around too.

Have more confidence in yourself, Harper!  If anything, Monty should be thanking the powers that be that he gets to be with an awesome woman like you!  I'm worried that the actress still isn't a regular, although to be fair, being in the main credits doesn't mean you're safe. Just ask Finn.  Or Lincoln.

So, I guess Kane's "turn the page" speech to Bellamy is the show's way to try and make him and the entire viewing audience try and move past what an utter dick he was last season.  We'll see....

Show has never been shy about finding ways to sex it up despite the gritty setting, but even by that standards, they seem to go out of their way to highlight Eliza Taylor's cleavage.  Not complaining mind you, but I have to wonder if a part of her is thinking "Sheesh, camera guys.  You know there is more to me then my boobs!"

Lexa's death really seems to have effected Clarke the most out of everyone she's lost so far.

They are either going to go there with Bellamy and Echo, or this will end with Bellamy killing her.  Or maybe it will be both!

Curious to see where this season goes, but like with most The 100 episode, I demand more Raven!

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Regarding that end scene, how exactly is there anything that Skaicru or any other tribe to do to stop that massive radiation storm -- so massive it destroyed the Sphinx ... and the pyramids ... and incinerated that Grounder in seconds ?  This massive radiation storm that apparently came from all the nuclear reactors in north Africa (whatever).

Do they expect the audience to believe that self-repairing nuclear power complexes lasted for nearly 100 years and all failed at the same time to create this massive radiation storm ?  And no one "remembered" these power plants so they all went unused and unnoticed -- you would think that someone would have noticed that the lights were still on over there in that industrial looking complex, and decided to investigate.

Are they going to build a wall to stop it ?  Seriously, how will they stop it ? I've got no ideas at all, other than a wizard fixing everything.

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20 hours ago, CooperTV said:

Chelsey Reist said she is on Twitter.

I hope her name gets added to the IMO AWESOME Opening Credits and Theme Music to even up the Female to Male regular cast members!. Men are Bellamy Jasper Monty Roan Jaha Murphy and Kane while Only Clarke Abby Octavia and Raven represent the Ladies. I say put Harper and Indra in the main cast!

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I wasn’t sure I’d be back after season 3 (there was so much I didn't like about the season), but then I heard Roan was coming back... I have to say Roan’s abs did not disappoint. Lol

However, I was disappointed with Roan as a character. He seemed weak, reactive, and lacking in presence. Also his story seems predictable; the clans will be unhappy with his decision to allow Skycrew to live, he’ll struggle to maintain control, there might be an assassin attempt, the other clans might try and take control. We’ve already done all these stories with Lexa, so I hope the writers have something different planed for Roan.

Part of me was routing for Roan to go full on ‘Games of Thrones’ and kill Clarke! I like Clarke for the most part, but I really wanted Roan to do something to not look so weak.

Not much else really happened during the episode; some lose ends were tired up and some set-up for the coming season happened but it was kind of a filler episode which is not surprising considering this is the first episode.

Echo could be an interesting character, but I have no interest in seeing a romance between her and Bellamy. However, I’m not sure who else the writers will hook Bellamy up with. This is the CW so I doubt they’ll leave Bellamy single.

Spoiler

There’s always Raven which I wouldn’t mind per-say, but they’ve already hooked those two up. There’s also Clarke, but I doubt the writers will go there and risk pissing off Lexa fans. So unless they introduce another female character I’m betting we’ll see an Echo + Bellamy paring.

Clarke didn’t do much other than declare her love for Lexa. I predict

Spoiler

Clarke will not have a new love interest this season and will mourn Lexa. It’ll be strange if they go that route since Clarke has never been shown to really mourn people. She didn’t mourn Wells, Finn, or even her mom when she thought she had died.

Happy to see Indra again. Don’t care about Abby + Kane’s potential romance. Don’t care about Abby to tell the truth. Octavia isn’t my favorite but she certainly kicked ass.

Jasper--- is it bad that I was hoping he’d pull the trigger? I know that the writers said they thought about ending last season with Japer killing himself, so when they started that scene I was thinking no way the writers are actually going to there. But then they didn’t.

Jaha should have died a long time ago. I really have no interest in him.

Murphy amazingly I have come to like him, but I’m not excited about him being off on his own again.

Edited by Fireball · Reason: because I apparently don't know how to spell Clarke's name
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1 hour ago, Fireball said:

There’s also Clark, but I doubt the writers will go there and risk pissing off Lexa fans.

Jason Rothernberg said multiple times before this season that Clarke will move on. It's obviously not clear with whom she will move on at this point but if the first episode is any indication she ended her mourning with giving away the chip and sharing with her mother (with Bellamy hearing of this and with clear focus on his face, which is a parallel to his and ALIE!Raven's convo in Nevermore, where Clarke had to listen about the death of Gina).

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On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 0:58 PM, CooperTV said:

Jason Rothernberg said multiple times before this season that Clarke will move on.

I didn't read anything before this season, but

Spoiler

 if he says Clarke will more on I'm sure she will. I still have my doubts that Rothernberg would go there with Clarke + Bellamy; I vaguely remember him saying that Clarke & Bellamy will only be friends. And I still think putting Bellamy & Clarke together would piss off some fans. If Clarke does move on I wonder who it would be with? She's heading back home and right now and the options are Bellamy & Jasper.  There's also Roan but he's over with the grounders. Of course they can always introduce a new character to be Clarke new love interest.

ETA: I guess Echo could also be an option.

Edited by Fireball

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I've said it before but because of the incredibly short in show timeline they really do have a problem selling these supposed big loves and losses. I think they bank on most viewers not really keeping track or just not caring.  

That said I did enjoy the opener, yes it was a set up episode but that is to be expected if they aren't going to do a time jump and then an info dump.

The giant death wave is interesting and while the science and mechanics is stupid, the idea of an unstoppable enemy that can't be talked or beaten down is at least new for this show.  

My guess is they work to repair Mt Weather and survive the wave underground and become mole people if they get a 5th season. 

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According to canon, Lexa would had been killed by her own people if she didn't enforce their laws, as said outloud by Lincoln.  Likewise it is also canon that the Grounders on their own would had killed everybody in Arkadia including Finn, and by asking for only Finn, Lexa saved all the other Arkers.

Now some people in fandom pretty much chose to ignore or re-write this, where as others can't remember what Lincoln said so it seems like Lexa could had acted differently. The former though is done blatantly for them in order to fit their own fanon version to villainize Lexa. I remember particularly how this stuff with Finn was not being blamed on Lexa when it happened in fandom 'cause Lincoln spelled it outloud what would happen to Lexa if she spared Finn in any way. But then Clarke and Lexa kissed and suddenly a certain fandom came out and started ignoring canon in favor of demonizing Lexa as the Finn Killer!1 (and anyone with a brain knew what was the cause of the sudden demonization of a lesbian character perceived to be blocking a M/F ship lmao ).

On 2/2/2017 at 11:57 PM, shireenbamfatheon said:

Unpopular opinion: The show would be 10x better if they got rid of Clarke. Between her designated sad face, her constant manipulation, the writers' tendency to attribute every victory as her doing regardless of the role others play and everyone becoming incompetent in her vicinity so she can look good, I'm just tired of her. 
 

Did you then enjoy S3A? Clarke's screen time was very low there, with Bellamy getting the most screen time in S3A, and in general the Arkers like Monty got a lot more screen time. The bulk of the time was spent in Arkadia as well. I'm honestly curious 'cause in my opinion the other cast members can't carry the show in the same way. Monty? The actor is weak and the character potential squandered over and over (he should had gotten Jasper's story line in S2). Harper = non entity. Bryan = non entity. Miller = not very developed and the actor is very uncomfortable at playing gay. Bellamy = xenophobic genocidal post apoc Trump jr that got more free passes and thicker plot armor than anyone else at this point. Not to mention there are enough post Apoc shows with a dude at the center with a lot of Man Pain involved and female character fridged. Octavia? Maybe character-wise but I don't see it on an acting level. Maybe if the show still had Ricky/Lincoln. Raven/Lindsey is the only one I feel like has a character and an actress that could step up. From the adults Abby hasn't really been relevant for a while, Jaha should had been writing off awhile ago. I'm curious as to how you would envision it working?

On 2/2/2017 at 11:51 PM, nosleepforme said:

To feel guilty for the entire season and then sacrifice himself by the end of it to get redeemed, I bet.

Wasn't that his earlier arc though where he "sacrificed himself" for parts of the Ark to make it down? I do believe you are right, but jesus it is repetitive. It also just hurts the credibility of the 100 setting, that these Arkers can get away with so much shit against the Grounders.

18 hours ago, Fireball said:

Of course they can always introduce a new character to be Clark new love interest.

Spoiler

There was a casting call for a character that must also be comfortable with F/F kiss and sex scene. Also rumors of Chai Romruen character being linked with Clarke/growing closer to her. However if you really want more of an idea, the spoiler thread got some likely leaked stuff from the season finale script.

On 5/2/2017 at 1:09 AM, ottoDbusdriver said:

Are they going to build a wall to stop it ?  Seriously, how will they stop it ? I've got no ideas at all, other than a wizard fixing everything.

I think like a fair share speculated back after S3 finale, that they will go back in space. Maybe some will find a nuke proof bunker as well, so they will be split.

On 4/2/2017 at 5:18 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Lexa's death really seems to have effected Clarke the most out of everyone she's lost so far.

Well it has been an on going complaint that some characters on the show was never really allowed to show their grief - primarily the female characters. Like we had a good arc with Kane changing cause of his actions (the best executed character arc on the show imo), flip flopping arcs with Bellamy (despite the S3 being shit, it was partly about his sadness/man pain/loss/wah wah, and his personality change with Finn in S2 was supposedly consequence of his role in the killing of 320 innocent Arkers), Jasper with Maya, Jaha with Wells. But somehow Raven's grief of Finn was just speckled throughout, Clarke got very little with Wells and also Finn (I would argue that Finn wasn't someone I thought she should grieve a lot considering she knew him for less than 5 days before she broke up with him and then decided to keep her distance. I felt more the action of mercy killing him and mourning what he became should had been focused on).

Fans pointed out that it seems like the female characters had to swallow down their pain very often, whereas the male characters tended to get multi episode long arcs that were central to changing their characters. Now Clarke is a person to REALLY repress her own emotions while she flounders about trying to save people or do shit, but you can have that and still let the cracks show. So maybe the show is trying to do that this season. To know if they are, will be easier to see how Octavia's arc pans out. I thought her grief was grossly neglected last season, where they made the initial focus center a fair share on Bellamy. Like they released the slides from the beat down Octavia gave Bellamy, and it was pretty much all. about. Bellamy. and. his. feelings. That obviously upset fans because why did it have to be about him, and not the character most effected? Why did the entire scene open up with the camera focused on him, and the scene also focused on him instead of Octavia that had suffered this huge loss?

So this could be one of the steps of the writers taking some criticism on board, and allow some characters to grieve a bit. Another example of 'feedback' is the inserted explanation of Raven being a coding master now, which was in S3 a pretty huge plot hole/something that made no sense since mechanic =/= super coder and hacker.

 

17 hours ago, Nay said:

I've said it before but because of the incredibly short in show timeline they really do have a problem selling these supposed big loves and losses. I think they bank on most viewers not really keeping track or just not caring. 

The time line is pretty bad overall with making it believable how some characters have "bonds", and it is only made worse when you consider how much certain characters have been separated. We had the strong attachment the Delinquents showed to Clarke at the start of S2, which felt a bit exaggerated because a reason why Clarke felt it necessary to work with Bellamy was that a lot didn't like her or wanted to follow her ideas. Or like in S2, MW had either Clarke inside or Bellamy inside. And before that we had S1 where they spent most of the time as antagonists, and then Clarke was separated with Finn by Anya. Yet come S3, we are supposed to believe Bellamy is really that upset over Clarke leaving? It made more sense his S2 characterization of being supportive instead of him flip flopping on his support in S3 and throwing a fit over it.

The excuse from the writers have primarily been that the characters are in super intense and frequent life threatening situations. And I agree - to an extent - that it makes sense that you form really strong attachments in short amount of time. But still I feel like we also need to see the characters enjoying themselves together, to really buy or lend credibility to these intense feelings and bonds. Like even if it was cringy, it was good they showed the car sing along at the start of S3. Likewise Clarke relaxing and drawing Lexa showed they felt comfortable letting their guard down and just enjoy each others company or the bits of dialogue that makes it clear that they talked about their life experiences and culture (fx Lexa had told her about the Primfarya and her conclave). I feel like the show could do with weaving in more of those dialogue bits between all the characters, because it lays down the background of them interacting and hanging out, outside of talks of survival/planing/action.

Edited by Gabe Torres
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On 2/4/2017 at 7:09 PM, ottoDbusdriver said:

Regarding that end scene, how exactly is there anything that Skaicru or any other tribe to do to stop that massive radiation storm -- so massive it destroyed the Sphinx ... and the pyramids ... and incinerated that Grounder in seconds ?  This massive radiation storm that apparently came from all the nuclear reactors in north Africa (whatever).

Do they expect the audience to believe that self-repairing nuclear power complexes lasted for nearly 100 years and all failed at the same time to create this massive radiation storm ?  And no one "remembered" these power plants so they all went unused and unnoticed -- you would think that someone would have noticed that the lights were still on over there in that industrial looking complex, and decided to investigate.

Are they going to build a wall to stop it ?  Seriously, how will they stop it ? I've got no ideas at all, other than a wizard fixing everything.

You have to admit the massive radiation storm was impressive from a filming standpoint.  

I agree with you on the viability of nuclear power plants lasting almost 100 years does seem out there.  I am a big fan of shows that depict what happens after people are gone.  The documentary Life After People comes to mind.

On 2/5/2017 at 11:56 PM, Nay said:

My guess is they work to repair Mt Weather and survive the wave underground and become mole people if they get a 5th s

Ok, sounds reasonable.

I am an old lady and my nephew and I share many of the same interests.  From Xbox gaming, Runescape, literature and the love of dystopia in all formats.  I took his advice and turned off cable and it was the best decision I have made in years.  My cable bill dropped by $125 a month as I only have wifi and watch Netflix and Hulu through my Xbox 360.  Found out that most cable channels are already "airborne" if you have a smart tv.  Anyways, I was hooked on The 3% and got him in on that and he got me into The 100.  I had to watch all 3 seasons before the 4th season aired.  It was a race to the finish and I was almost shocked with how good the show was and how brutal it is.  This past week I am being all librarian on him (he started ignoring my texts) and engaging him in my love of real events and places that lead to conspiracy theories.  Mount Weather is real yes, The Georgia Guidestones are also real which got me thinking of Pensmore.....................................

I will sum up by saying:

  • I miss Lincoln!!!!!!
  • Octavia is my favorite girl, with Indra right behind her
  • Get sick of the teen angst and then get sick of the smoopy Abbey mothering control
  • Love the idea of an avatar city - which makes me think of the alien conspiracy theory that we are just a computer game
  • I like Roan and wouldn't mind if he and Octavia get together
  • How cool would it be to have Octavia with Lincoln's child - great plot possibilities.

See you next episode!

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11 hours ago, jumper sage said:

You have to admit the massive radiation storm was impressive from a filming standpoint.  

It was a pretty impressive visual.

The problem with the rebuilding Mt. Weather and moving in plan is that the radiation storm will incinerate every plant/animal on the planet.
So unless they plan to stay put in Mt. Weather for years until the radiation dies down ..... again .....  and the biosphere regrows in an unmutated state that can sustain a population, they are kind of screwed.

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2 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

It was a pretty impressive visual.

The problem with the rebuilding Mt. Weather and moving in plan is that the radiation storm will incinerate every plant/animal on the planet.
So unless they plan to stay put in Mt. Weather for years until the radiation dies down ..... again .....  and the biosphere regrows in an unmutated state that can sustain a population, they are kind of screwed.

Yes, I get your point.  I have no idea where they go from here.

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On 6/2/2017 at 9:43 PM, Gabe Torres said:

Did you then enjoy S3A? [...]

 

My biggest problem with 3A was the entire Polis storyline e.g. Clexa happening after Clarke isolated herself for three months because of what the betrayal made her do, Clarke overcoming her PTSD all of a sudden to become ambassador despite having never been to Arkadia since its establishment, Lexa screwing over her own people for Clarke which was a complete 180 from her characterization in season two, the Ice Queen dying off-screen after being set up as a major villain so we could have Ontari instead etc. That and how rushed the Pike storyline was. I actually would have had no problem with it if they'd just fleshed him out more and spent a whole season on that one storyline instead of cramming three/four major arcs into one season (I hated the A.L.I.E. arc as well). 3B wasn't better because Clarke got more screentime; it was better because the show went back to what made people like it to begin with.

As for the acting, that's entirely subjective. I've always maintained that Eliza Taylor and the actress who plays her mom are the worst actors on the show. Lincoln and Finn weren't good either, but the latter died early and the former didn't have the best writing. I've never had any problem with the others' acting, and Monty, Bellamy, Kane and Raven have always been the best parts of the show for me. 

As for Bellamy being singled out as the worst of the worst, please. Clarke let a bomb drop on 300 Grounder allies because she wanted to save her own 40 people, tried to force the chip on Luna against her consent (how much hate would Bellamy had gotten if he'd tried the same - I can just see the rape allegories), wanted to go to every village knowing that A.L.I.E. would butcher everyone because she wanted to find someone with Nightblood etc. So much for "blood must not have blood".

Lexa let her own people die and used their loved ones' grief to get every clan to follow her, tried to assassinate Octavia for knowing the truth and abandoned her allies to be tortured and killed. Jasper shot a Grounder during a truce and then went home and celebrated and got off on being popular, Kane was going to kill off the poorest people on the Ark to save whoever he deemed more worthy of living, Abby maintained the Ark's system with all its fucked up laws and only went against it when it meant she'd have to follow the same rules as everyone else. And she sent traumatized kids into a dangerous environment to look for her kid and then refused to let the others bring Finn and Murphy back because Clarke had returned etc. Literally every person in the show except possibly Raven has done horrible things but Bellamy's the irredeemable one...

Manpain is such an overused term. Everyone on this show is angsty as hell and if you're gonna pull the "would you rather have a dude with manpain at the center of this show or a woman" I'd just like to remind everyone that an Asian lead character, let alone a Filipino, who doesn't conform to any of the stereotypes Asian men in Western media usually do, is a much bigger deal than another white pretty blonde twenties-something woman. 

Edited by shireenbamfatheon
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On 2/3/2017 at 4:06 PM, shireenbamfatheon said:


The strangest part is the extent of Clarke's love for Lexa. I'm not sure if Rothenberg is trying to appease fans of this ship, but regardless it seems that her death made more of an impact on her than Wells of Finn's deaths. Hell, she wasn't even that affected when she thought her mother had died back in season one as she is by Lexa's death, who she was with for like a week.

I think its obvious what they have done.  The only reason Lexa gets this kind of remembrance is because the show caught a shit ton of crap when they killed her off.  So they bring her up to ward any further criticism.  They need to justify killing off this character and you do that by constantly showing her impact.  If the very vocal fans that complained about Lexa's death never opened their mouths then I'm of the opinion that Lexa would've gone the way of every other fallen character.

By the way, please stop pointing out Eliza's cleavage.  It was gone for far too long and I've had to stare at Lincoln's abs in the meantime.  Please give us this.

Edited by MV007

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On 9/2/2017 at 7:22 PM, shireenbamfatheon said:

My biggest problem with 3A was the entire Polis storyline e.g. Clexa happening after Clarke isolated herself for three months because of what the betrayal made her do, Clarke overcoming her PTSD all of a sudden to become ambassador despite having never been to Arkadia since its establishment, Lexa screwing over her own people for Clarke which was a complete 180 from her characterization in season two, the Ice Queen dying off-screen after being set up as a major villain so we could have Ontari instead etc. That and how rushed the Pike storyline was. I actually would have had no problem with it if they'd just fleshed him out more and spent a whole season on that one storyline instead of cramming three/four major arcs into one season (I hated the A.L.I.E. arc as well). 3B wasn't better because Clarke got more screentime; it was better because the show went back to what made people like it to begin with.

As for Bellamy being singled out as the worst of the worst, please. Clarke let a bomb drop on 300 Grounder allies because she wanted to save her own 40 people, tried to force the chip on Luna against her consent (how much hate would Bellamy had gotten if he'd tried the same - I can just see the rape allegories),

[...] if you're gonna pull the "would you rather have a dude with manpain at the center of this show or a woman" I'd just like to remind everyone that an Asian lead character, let alone a Filipino, who doesn't conform to any of the stereotypes Asian men in Western media usually do, is a much bigger deal than another white pretty blonde twenties-something woman. 

 

For the italics:

Thing is, not all 'bad actions' are morally equally bad. It would be pretty disingenuous to present it as so. There are some that are definitely worse than others, which isn't only measured on the action itself, but also the context and motivation.

In a prison, ideally all of the people in there has committed a crime, which makes them all criminals. But would one consider them all equally morally bad? No, because there are different crimes that require different amount of disregard for other human beings or lives. Someone that has to serve time because they can't pay their parking tickets is not as bad as someone in prison because they kicked a dog to death.

Even if you take the same crime, motive still makes a huge difference. Say a person killed a man because this man raped their daughter and got away with it. Now another man killed someone, and their motive was because the victim was black. Would you really look at both and call them equally bad?

Motive matters. Context matters. That goes particularly for talking about the morality and likeability of characters on a show such as the 100. If a story is trying to sell me the idea of the character X being a flawed hero that just messes up sometimes, it needs to not make that character do things that go into the area of irredeemable/actions of a villain.

Jasper fried 300 Grounders at the end of S1, but I've never seen fandom hold that against him, because (from my impression) its understood why. Its known his actions didn't come from a place of selfishness or outright bigotry. His actions were by far tied primarily with that if he didn't push the button, him and all his friends would had been dead within a couple of minutes.

Of the current main cast, no one has committed the same or more horrific actions than Bellamy, with so many of them having morally shitty motives. That is in part why I'm not here for the woobifying, or justification that relies on endorsement of xenophobia and imperialism that is tied intrinsically together with white supremacy. And on top of it, he has dodged any real consequences almost every time.

Pre S3, Bellamy already had a bunch of morally horrific actions from S1, where most people let it go as a result of his first redemption go around including myself. Bob put in one hell of a performance back then. Bellamy gets less sympathy from me because his actions have been based on pure selfishness + controlling behavior in S1, and in S3 it was based on xenophobia / misogynistic story telling / man pain, and in S3 it isn't the first time either that he did really awful things. The xenophobic motive of his actions makes irredeemable to me alright? I know it is not a deal breaker for everyone, but it most certainly is for me. Likewise characters that commit acts of murder based on racism/homophobia/sexism are trash to me.

All the bolded parts are basically canonically incorrect or assumption presented as fact. I don't mind discussing the various characters critically - particularly Clarke where I find her much more dark grey with tipping her toes into black area than most of fandom - but we need to have a common base in the show. Also think would need to take it to a different thread.

Would just say at least look up the symptoms of PTSD. Clarke has almost none of them. She has several for depression, which is very frequently a part of having PTSD. Only other thing is can say she might have nightmares (but she doesn't have invasive memories, flashbacks or missing pieces of memory). I'm bone tired of fandom declaring that everyone and their dog has PTSD, when many of the characters doesn't show a single symptom, or any where near enough to qualify. End result is making light of what PTSD actually entails and spreading misinformation about it. Experiencing a trauma or multiple ones can result in PTSD, but it is not guaranteed, which is how parts of fandom and the writers talk about it.

Also implying Bellamy wouldn't get away with the chip part and Clarke did? Lets not pretend Bellamy hasn't gotten away with matters of dubious consent. In  S1 he was sleeping with multiple aged approx.14-17 year old teenage girls that he held a disproportionate power difference over. Fandom completely hand waved or even made shit ton of jokes about that. Even now, there is a gifs popping up about how "this is the guy that had threesomes but lol he can't flirt proper with his lil Princess wuw". Large parts off fandom complete ignores the creepiness and dub con, and even made into something that is presented as something that shows he is this "stud/hurr durr Alpha male". People are straight out making jokes of it, despite several rape victims have expressively asked for people to stop, lots of his fans pretend like there was nothing creepy there. Even Linctavia fans will admit and show much greater understanding for people taking issue with their age difference and development. Clarke wanting to force the chip? Absolutely the worst her character has ever been, followed by her becoming spineless to facilitate Bellamy's redemption/barely giving any negative reaction over Bellamy's and Pike's xenophobic mass murdering ways. How Clarke treated Niylah is also up there in the top 3, because she was an utter d-bag to her and showed so little sympathy or care towards someone that been nothing but kind to her, and risked her life.

Last paragraph about Representation:

Not all representation is good representation. The way you describe Bob as a biracial man representation-wise is rather shallow view point as it omits the problems brought upon various story telling decisions that has been rightfully called out by PoC, fans that are part of groups often victim of xenophobia and particularly Filipino fans. Representation talk under spoiler cut, as it is not really episode 4x02 discussion, but brought up here.

Spoiler

Bob is half Filipino playing a character that committed native genocide, and went out to purge a village of kids and old people to steal their lands based on xenophobia and imperialistic motives and beliefs. Plenty of Filipinos have spoken up in pure disgust over that, as their country experienced decades of imperialistic, xenophobic and racist atrocities. And that is where is the aspect/discussion of not all representation is good representation comes in, and debates about how to measure that.

Like on the massive ratings hit show Empire they had a black(!) wlw played by Naomi Campbell, which is incredibly rare. That seems fantastic but I'll deadass say I wish that character had been straight, and that is typically a huge no no in the community. I stand by it, because the character enforced so many homophobic and biphobic stereotypes and was so shitty, that in the overall picture, we would had been much better off/suffered less damaged if she was straight (also as a black woman I take issue with  the character also enforcing a particular racist stereotype, and in the end would had preferred if the character didn't even exist for all the negative shit it re-enforced to such a huge audience.)


The final say on whether Bellamy is actually good representation, is not decided by (especially) white people, where you got some that think they are so ~woke cause they read some tumblr post(s), and they stan a biracial man (often in a fetishized way to boot). Nor even by other Asians that aren't Filipino because it is racist, and gross to treat Asian people and their experiences under white supremacy and colonialism as a hegemony. It goes particularly for the Philippines that has a history with white supremacy and colonialism that is significantly different from any other countries in the entire world.

That history is also why Bellamy's S3 arc was absolutely atrocious on more than one level. It didn't just destroy his character by having him do horrific things based on deplorable motivations, but those actions were the actions and part of the motivations of people that brutalized the Philippines for many years. I remember several of his fans (from bellarke, braven and clexa ships) that are Filipino that wanted to call out the show, and trend about it after 3x05 to start discussions. It almost happened, but then the Clexa sex scene leaked, and then the (primarily white) Bellamy/bellarke fandom wanted instead to trend to boycott the show because Clexa was happening. It basically ruined the efforts that were being made cross fandom to bring more attention to these issues (that and also the bullying and harassment thrown their way, even after they stopped communicating in English and instead switched to I think Tagalog).

You omitted that Clarke is the first female bisexual character on US network TV, which I at least consider to have a level of importance. Now Clarke as bisexual representation can also go into bad rep area, as currently it is iffy as hell as all the people she gets physically close to dies or gets horribly beaten and mistreated. That is where also many wlw, particularly bisexuals in this fandom tried to discuss between themselves if Clarke was actually good representation by now and in the future if X Y Z happened, but then got descended on by a horde of straight girls telling them they were being biphobic. S4 will give a better idea where Clarke will end up regarding if good, bad or in the middle bi rep wise. And the judgement of that? Is one for wlw to make, particularly female bisexuals. Not straight girls who use her as their self-insert for imagining her together with the dude they worship that I've seen constantly trying to insert themselves into this discussion.

Edited by Gabe Torres
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 Also, Show, please don't kill Jasper.  No matter how Emo he gets. 

Quote

I've been wishing his death since the beginning of last season. I've had more than enough of his man pain and whining.

Count me in as someone yelling, "God, Jasper, just do it. Please, God, die".

On 04/02/2017 at 2:18 PM, thuganomics85 said:

So, I guess Kane's "turn the page" speech to Bellamy is the show's way to try and make him and the entire viewing audience try and move past what an utter dick he was last season.

Turn the page, Bellamy. And Clarke will thank you for not betraying her for once. And Pike's dead so let's all forget about that time you were pro-genocide. I get that stupid plotline was stupid and Bellamy was way OOC. But it happened. I was hoping the writers would finally own it but apparently they're going for the "time heals all narrative mistakes" policy.

They had Bellamy say that maybe they deserved the Grounder's hate. And then Clarke dismissed it and thanked him. Fuck!

I'm not gonna lie, I think the actor does amazing things with Bellamy. I think that he and Clarke have natural chemistry, of the 'get a room' variety. I love when Bellamy is positioned as her devoted 2IC. But they fucked up his character so much that I'm not sure I can get past it. The guy committed horrific war crimes and betrayed the people who care about him the most. The only remorse he's shown is of the "my sister doesn't like me anymore" kind. I'm not sure I can "turn the page" as easily as the show wants me to.

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On 2/3/2017 at 11:18 PM, thuganomics85 said:

 

So, I guess Kane's "turn the page" speech to Bellamy is the show's way to try and make him and the entire viewing audience try and move past what an utter dick he was last season.  We'll see....

Bellamy's been a dick from the start, with occasional lapses of half-decency.  But last season he was so far over the line that he deserves banishment or long-term imprisonment.   He wasn't chipped.   He made his choices with free will.   Instead, Kane gives him a pep talk lifted from a Hallmark card.  

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I don't know how I feel about the set-up for the season. My interest isn't really there, to be honest. But I'm going to power through because I've come this far and still like some characters. 

I'm still not on board to forgive Bellamy. He's only started his path to redemption, but he has a really long way to go. His selfish actions last season caused hundreds of deaths, and he let it happen. Hell, he even felt it was wrong and still sat by to let it happen. So no, the Kane speech to Bellamy isn't enough to let bygones be bygones. At least it looks like Octavia hasn't fully forgiven him. 

I really like Clarke, but she might need to tone down on the demands when she talks to other leaders. For example, all she threw out were demands at Roan this episode. He could have said no and chopped her head off. Of course, with the world ending, he kind of feels the need to spare her life, to get all hands on deck. I bet once everyone finds out about Apocalypse 2.0, all hell will break loose. I don't blame them for keeping it secret, but it'll guarantee Skaikru being attacked first. 

I'm glad to see Indra still around. I'm glad Octavia's sticking around in Polis with the adults, as well. 

So, what the hell is Jasper going to do this season? I'm still not liking him.

Hey, show, are you going to stop torturing Raven now? No? Ok, then. 

I definitely need to take a little break before continuing with this season.

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Clarke was my favourite character and that, along with the survival aspect, was the greatest pull as to why I watched the show in the first place. I've been frustrated with her characterization since season three and really don't care for a lot of the characters. The survival aspect is being explored in repetitive ways (or parallels as its called in writing 101). So, I finally decided to throw in the towel.

Despite being really unenthused about the inclusion of ALIE at the end of season two, I 'knuckled down' and finished season three as I had to see where Clarke would go as a character. As the setup for season four left me even less enthused, I left it for a while and let my dvr build up half a season before starting. I didn't end up watching the final few eps., but I got the gist from reviews/reading the boards. I'll be interested in reading your reactions for season four though.

Edited by Solace247 · Reason: For clarity.

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