S07.E08: Boys, Blades And Bag Of Pills

[Former Nun]

Jerry Oppenheimer's book on the Hiltons includes Kathy Hilton's mother's (Big Kathy) bad marriage to Kim Richard's father.  It states that Kim began "bringing in the big bucks at four months of age."    Kim's father had been married before and had children, so his income probably had to support two families.

[KungFuBunny]

Mikey’s prayer included “sex on a platter” and “throbbing cocks”. So it was what he is wishing FOR as opposed to hoping for Erika to have a great performance.

Lyrics I remember from Ericka’s new song

My Kitty is a python

Tick Tock Time bomb

Huh? LOL

I’m picturing Mikey telling Erika that her costumes need to be sent to the cleaners. Fast forward to Mikey, dressed like Ericka Patting the Prick and Slinging the Schlong in the dance studio

[WireWrap]

44 minutes ago, Former Nun said:

Jerry Oppenheimer's book on the Hiltons includes Kathy Hilton's mother's (Big Kathy) bad marriage to Kim Richard's father.  It states that Kim began "bringing in the big bucks at four months of age."    Kim's father had been married before and had children, so his income probably had to support two families.

Yes, it says Kim started making "big bucks" but the author never claims Kim supported her family as so many seem to think she did.

[breezy424]

I've read excerpts from House of Hilton online and I take it all with a grain of salt.  It's just one viewpoint on the sisters and the author does tend toward sensationalism to sell books.  JMHO.

On another note, I kinda liked LR's outfit at Dorit's party.  It was cute...and different.  I know.  I'll go back to the corner. 

[Inspectabecky]

On 1/25/2017 at 9:16 PM, Sai said:

Greece would have been much better if it was Kyle and LVP.  Erika is just so damn boring.  All she talks about is herself.  When Kyle was telling Erika about her scripted show Erika asked her how she felt about the memories it brought up and Kyle looked a little sad and was going to say something but Erika quickly interrupted her and said she was going to call her husband.  WTF was that?!  Your friend who leaves her family and flies a zillion miles away to watch your boring ass is about to open up about her feelings and you cut her off so you can out of the blue call your husband?  Was it necessary to call him right that very minute and then throw in how much money he's spending on all this crap?  It's all about Erika all the time.  I can't stand her.  I'm just glad her stupid concert is finally over so I don't have to hear her yammer on about it constantly and watch any more of her dumb rehearsals.

I was glad to see Camille.  Whenever she's on the first thing I do is see what she's wearing and it rarely ever disappoints.

 Watching now and check the editing out again, it's far from seamless so I doubt she interrupted anything.

It actually drives me crazy how they refuse to let us watch a good conversation once in a while. They're constantly cutting in and out then the THs blah blah.  The VERY few times in a season they let something play out in a serious moment, it stands out so much to me because of the change in rhythm.

[Inspectabecky]

5 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

What got me was her admission that she blew Mack Miller.  I have met Mack Miller.  He was a very short (as in shorter than my height of 5'5), horribly bad skin, and was so stoned it was difficult to talk to him.  He was nice so I will give him that.  I am not against the herb however, moderation.  She is too old to do the groupie thing on such a young person.

Eek I waiting for someone to snark on this! While he seems very cool and talented.. barf. Not to mention he was an admitted cokehead (and got over a lean addiction now that im remembering) till recently. But she couldn't date a smoker. 

[swankie]

On Wednesday, January 25, 2017 at 10:17 AM, Normades said:

Hanging up on your sister the day she died and bragging about it later, just WOW!

Thank You!  I think Eden is hanging on to a lot of guilt and is projecting it onto Kyle and Kim.  And for some reason, I get the vibe from Eden that she halfway blames Kim for her sister's addiction since they used to party together back in the day.  When she included Robert Downy Jr. in that crowd, the first thing I thought was, "That whole crowd was using drugs."  We all know of his drug abuse back in the day.

[zoeysmom]

8 hours ago, Former Nun said:

Jerry Oppenheimer's book on the Hiltons includes Kathy Hilton's mother's (Big Kathy) bad marriage to Kim Richard's father.  It states that Kim began "bringing in the big bucks at four months of age."    Kim's father had been married before and had children, so his income probably had to support two families.

Just to put things into perspective-Kyle's dad would be a 100 years old this year had he not died 18 years ago.  His first family were adults by the time Kim came along.  So I don't think he was supporting two families.  He obviously married Kathy before Kim began modeling at four months.  Just once I would like someone to actually quantify how much money Kim made.  I don't think Kim has a very realistic idea. 

[Juliegirlj]

I understand why people don't like Dorit. Even though she does have a great body, is beautiful and is not dumb, don't forget she chose PK as a mate. Who we choose as a partner speaks volumes about who we are. 

[Yours Truly]

16 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I can already see that Eden might have some issues, but, so far, I still agree with her about the dysfunction in the Richards family.  I hope that I misunderstood Eden when she said that she takes drugs, but doesn't drink.  Was that right?  My understanding is that if you are a recovering addict, you don't drink and if you are a recovering alcoholic, you don't do drugs.  No matter which your drug of habit is, you don't partake of the other.  That's my understanding of it.  ANYWAY, I have been SHOCKED and DISMAYED of how little Kyle or Kim know about addiction and sobriety.  With all the years of major substance abuse that Kim was in and her sister Kyle seemed to learn nothing about addiction nor enabling.  She's never said or did anything that seemed to indicate otherwise.  

And though I'm a long time Lisa V fan, she's obviously very ignorant on the matter too.  Have they never heard of a dry alcoholic?  Here's a link. It sounds a lot like Kim.

http://alcoholrehab.com/addiction-recovery/dry-drunk-syndrome/

Kim seems to get rehabbed a lot, but she never follows up and does any work in order to sustain her sobriety.  Eden was trying to point that out. 

And may I add that a huge thing about Kyle enabling Kim involves the DOG situation.  No one, including Kyle will stand up to Kim about that dog.  They enable her bizarre and dangerous behavior regarding that dog and refuse to discuss it.  That was the last straw for me and their selfish and dangerous conduct, so if there is anyone willing to stand up to those two, I'll support them.  So Eden, bring it on. 

I want to know who will stand up to Kim when she's babysitting her grandchild and she wants Kingsley to hang around and love the baby.  There is no doubt that she would think it was appropriate.  I pray that her adult kids will not allow this to happen, because Kim and Kyle don't have the wits to figure it out. 

 

 

K

Thank you for introducing me to the term dry drunk. Didn't not know about this at all and does sound really spot on. It expresses why it's such a slippery slope when it comes to addiction and recovery. This outlines such a sad existence and I can't ever understand how people could still go on witch hunts after knowing all that goes into an addicts struggles ESPECIALLY when they are in their dry periods and making new attempts at sobriety whether it be the 5th time or the 100th time. Which brings me to this key part of the link you shared:

Critics of Dry Drunk Syndrome

The term dry drunk is used as a pejorative in AA circles to describe people who aren’t working the program. It tends to be said in a judgmental way and for this reason may be considered an unhelpful description. It can also be used in an unfair way that amounts to victim blaming. Just because an individual is struggling in recovery does not necessarily mean that they are doing anything wrong. A significant number of alcoholics have a dual diagnosis which means that they have another mental health problem to contend with as well as their addiction. Describing such people as dry drunks is just ignoring their real problems and is therefore damaging.

 

This is where I've always stood in the matter of Kim and her addictions. It is what it is and the true challenges really fall on her, her family and close friends. She'll reap whatever outside consequences she brings upon herself and that's fair but within her circle of people who love her and care about her I don't see why anyone would expect them to give up on her or use more extreme measures. First we don't know exactly how they are manuvering through Kim's new attempts at sobriety and Second there is much to consider, as outlined in the link, so now I understand even more why people don't just "cut them off".  There's so much to the recovery process, no wonder it's so hard for people to succeed.

[Yours Truly]

15 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Kim has demonstrated herself in media, on the tv show, and in a very public way.  She appeared on Dr. Phil, she's been arrested multiple times, etc. I don't think her condition is secret, even though she and Kyle may wish it so.

Kyle stood by and refused to report it when Kingsley bit her own daugther Alexis several years ago.  She zipped up and refused to report it because he daughter asked her not to.  Granted, her daughter did want to be the cause of the dog being confiscated, but, it was a safety matter and of course, Kyle folded because of Kim's feelings.  Then, there is the lawsuit where Kim is sued, in addition to Kyle and Mauricio, but, of course, they are defending Kim's actions, paying for her defense and generally protecting her more.  They are responsible too, imo. They allow Kim to live on their property and they know how she is with the dog. She lies and will keep the dog no matter what.   We'll see what the court finds.  I hope Kyle and Mauricio get hit with a big figure, but, of course, it'll settle.  Dangerous dogs with prior bites are strict liability. 

http://people.com/celebrity/former-stylist-suing-kim-and-kyle-richards-for-alleged-pit-bull-attack/

The Richards girls intellectualizing?  WHAT? lol  I won't touch that one. 

Wait, it sounds more like Kyle didn't report it cause of her DAUGHTERS feelings and yet in the same sentence you blamed it on Kyle doing it because she was more concerned about Kim's feelings.

I think the automatic jump to Kyle protecting Kim is what really gives off this enabler narrative. No matter what the details it seems people can't help themselves from coming to that conclusion.

And I don't usually defend Kyle.

[heatherchandler]

20 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Heather this is just factually incorrect.  Kim and Kyles parents were married before Kim was born.  So I think you have your story screwed up.  Kim is five years older than Kyle.  If there are idiots out there trying to peddle such crap without fact checking then I think the wiser path would be to listen to Kyle's version.  The one who lived with the woman.

This account may be wrong, but it comes from the daughter of Kim and Kyle's half sister, Diane Richard's, the father's (Ken) daughter from the first marriage.  This is also in the book about the Hiltons.

Big Kathy and Ken were married before she had Kim, but she got pregnant when he was still married.  

[Yours Truly]

13 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Kim's father was always gainfully employed.  He was transferred to LA before Kyle was born and he bought the $60,000.00 home the girls were raised in.  Kim's role on Nanny and the Professor, was only after the child actress who played Dodie on  My Three Sons fell through. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0528184/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm The father was an executive of a large department store franchise and transferred to LA.    So breadwinner is not really accurate.  Kim's doesn't resent her days as a child star and her mother had to give up working another job to be on set with Kim.  So it is kind  of a big bag of bullshit Kim supported the family.  Parents bear the burden as well.  It is like every gymnast/ice skater in the Olympics (US) the parents make some sacrifices.  It was like Kim saying she always wanted to go to school and ride a school bus.  Kim and Kyle remarked on Kim wearing hair curlers as something their mom did when she picked them up from school.  Kim has kind of hazy memories.  In the first episode Kyle rematrks that KIm took her childhood earnings moved out of the house and bought a Porsche.  Within a year Kim met up with Monty and they bought matching Ferraris.

I think it I an easy out to say I was a childhood star.

Did Kim know that when she was a child?

This has been debated over and over again and it just hit me. Sure, sure parents had money had jobs had this had that so the semantics of Kim being the breadwinner seems to get debunked all the time but I just realized did Kim REALIZE that if she didn't work the family would be just fine? I think that's key. It's not like children understand all that. Especially if she was constantly encouraged to keep that paycheck rolling in.

Let's lose the term bread winner. It's still just as bad if they just wanted the added HEFTY income Kim was bringing in for even MORE of the finer things in life. Either way, the way things were set up back then I don't have any problems believing that she was feeling some sort of pressure to contribute to the family finances. Regardless of whether she was the "breadwinner" or not.

Also, plenty of child stars had parents working and taking care of them before they hit it big and once they did........ You think the family didn't move on up to bigger and better USING the extra income from their children? How do you expect they maintained the bigger lifestyle if not for the additional income? You can't tell me that Kim's money wasn't a big part of whatever lifestyle they graduated to and maintained. I mean that would be a pretty reasonable assumption no?

Edited January 27, 2017 by Yours Truly

[itainttippithebird]

This picture is begging for one of those "How I Think I Look vs. How I Actually Look" captions. (Not a knock on Kyle's looks , just the drastic difference in sex kitten realness they're bringing.)

 

 

Edited January 27, 2017 by itainttippithebird

[walnutqueen]

45 minutes ago, itainttippithebird said:

This picture is begging for one of those "How I Think I Look vs. How I Actually Look" captions. (Not a knock on Kyle's looks , just the drastic difference in sex kitten realness they're bringing.)

 

 

I think Kyle looks much better (and, dare I say, sexier) in this picture.

[AndySmith]

I think they both look good.

[MaggieG]

14 hours ago, Rosebud1970 said:

And Dorit, oh, Dorit. All this rhapsodizing about being a mother--baby spit up, poopy diapers and all. Tell us again, just exactly how many nannies have you got for your 2 children? 5? 10? I forget. You never see your kids, don't interact with them.

Poor Jagger goes to speech therapy with a minder because you're oh, so busy doing...what is it exactly that you do, again? The only time we ever see the littler one (Phoenix? Thunderbird? Bluebird?), she's fully-dressed and in the arms of one of the nannies. It's as if you bought your children off the shelf to serve as accessories. They certainly don't seem to know you're their mother. Do you know you're their mother. I kinda doubt it.

It does seem like she uses them as props. I really noticed it this episode. The nanny (or baby nurse) brought Phoenix out, the ladies oohed and aahed at her, then you can tell she was getting fussy and crying and she immediately handed her back to the nanny.

[SunnyBeBe]

1 hour ago, Yours Truly said:

Thank you for introducing me to the term dry drunk. Didn't not know about this at all and does sound really spot on. It expresses why it's such a slippery slope when it comes to addiction and recovery. This outlines such a sad existence and I can't ever understand how people could still go on witch hunts after knowing all that goes into an addicts struggles ESPECIALLY when they are in their dry periods and making new attempts at sobriety whether it be the 5th time or the 100th time. Which brings me to this key part of the link you shared:

Critics of Dry Drunk Syndrome

The term dry drunk is used as a pejorative in AA circles to describe people who aren’t working the program. It tends to be said in a judgmental way and for this reason may be considered an unhelpful description. It can also be used in an unfair way that amounts to victim blaming. Just because an individual is struggling in recovery does not necessarily mean that they are doing anything wrong. A significant number of alcoholics have a dual diagnosis which means that they have another mental health problem to contend with as well as their addiction. Describing such people as dry drunks is just ignoring their real problems and is therefore damaging.

 

This is where I've always stood in the matter of Kim and her addictions. It is what it is and the true challenges really fall on her, her family and close friends. She'll reap whatever outside consequences she brings upon herself and that's fair but within her circle of people who love her and care about her I don't see why anyone would expect them to give up on her or use more extreme measures. First we don't know exactly how they are manuvering through Kim's new attempts at sobriety and Second there is much to consider, as outlined in the link, so now I understand even more why people don't just "cut them off".  There's so much to the recovery process, no wonder it's so hard for people to succeed.

You are welcome, but your outtake is only reference to a critical viewpoint. It's not the only perspective and it doesn't negate the fact that the problem exist.  The full article is quite informative. Here's another portion from it.

Quote

The first step of avoiding dry drunk syndrome is recognizing the symptoms. The individual needs to be committed fully to recovery and to regularly monitor their own progress. They need to understand that recovery is a lifelong commitment that requires continued change and effort. After a few years, the pace slows down, but it should never stop completely. If life in recovery does not feel satisfying and fulfilling for much of the time, it is a sign that something is not quite right. It is vital that the individual looks closely at what is going wrong and remedies the situation or seeks help.

http://alcoholrehab.com/addiction-recovery/dry-drunk-syndrome/

[zoeysmom]

51 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Did Kim know that when she was a child?

This has been debated over and over again and it just hit me. Sure, sure parents had money had jobs had this had that so the semantics of Kim being the breadwinner seems to get debunked all the time but I just realized did Kim REALIZE that if she didn't work the family would be just fine? I think that's key. It's not like children understand all that. Especially if she was constantly encouraged to keep that paycheck rolling in.

Let's lose the term bread winner. It's still just as bad if they just wanted the added HEFTY income Kim was bringing in for even MORE of the finer things in life. Either way, the way things were set up back then I don't have any problems believing that she was feeling some sort of pressure to contribute to the family finances. Regardless of whether she was the "breadwinner" or not.

Also, plenty of child stars had parents working and taking care of them before they hit it big and once they did........ You think the family didn't move on up to bigger and better USING the extra income from their children? How do you expect they maintained the bigger lifestyle if not for the additional income? You can't tell me that Kim's money wasn't a big part of whatever lifestyle they graduated to and maintained. I mean that would be a pretty reasonable assumption no?

The point is the parents had an established lifestyle before Kim ever hit it big in Hollywood.  They lived in the same house that dad's money bought until Big Kathy decided to move to the desert.  I don't think Kim wanted to keep working because of pressure to keep a paycheck rolling in, I think she kept working because she was good at it and jobs were being offered.  It is not as if her mom was putting her out on the stroll at 13 years old.  She had a nice long run of Disney projects before having her James at 16 role and Hello Larry. 

If there mom was just a agent for child actors would this even be being discussed?  A big part of the reason parents get the money, except a statutory percentage, is because they have to forego a job to provide the support system for a child actor, driving them to auditions, work, studying lines, voice lessons, dance lessons and the like.  So do I think they had extras for the family because of Kim (and Kyle's) earnings, yes I do but I do think Kim directly benefitted from her working as she should.  The part about the parent and in Kim's case maternal grandparent are working is lost, their wages also contributed to the lifestyle, there job just happened to be working for Kim and later Kyle.  A part of the child's earnings are there wages for those working to make it happen.  Granted Kim didn't have a glam squad, but the help has to be compensated. 

The way it was best explained to me by an entertainment attorney was that young performers are like racehorses.  Sure it is the horse that runs the race, wins the race, and makes the money but there is a whole lot that goes into getting the horse to the point and maintaining the horse and someone (the owner) has to make it happen.  A horse who is doing well may move to an upgraded stable or get better jockeys and trainers but the owner still has to facilitate for the horse.  And this was from an attorney who advocated for child actors.   

[SunnyBeBe]

18 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Eden doesn't know either Kim or Kyle and she is not an addiction expert/counselor. If Eden were really concerned about Kim, she would have talked directly to her, not taken the word of someone that hates her and doesn't have her, Kim's, best interest at heart (Rinna). As far as I am concerned, Eden has based her entire opinion about Kim/Kyle on Rinna's word alone and nothing more.  

As for the dog, what can Kyle do, really? She doesn't know where that dog is located, Kim keeps moving him under different names so no one knows where he is. That is on Kim and has nothing to do with Kyle. Blame Kim, not Kyle.

Sadly, KIm's situation is very public and by her own volition.  I look forward to seeing if Kim is how she is portraying herself this season.  It's been a long, life long challenge for her and she's never really been honest about it.  And of course, it's always other people's fault.  The problem with knowing how she's doing, is that she lies so much, you can't believe anything she says.  And Kyle too.  Based on Kyle's cheery comments, Kim's always just fine, everything is just fine OR she doesn't want to talk about it.  That's okay, but if that's the case, then, Kim should stay off the show.

 I actually look forward to this season.  Maybe, we can see some real emotions and honest reactions, as opposed to the normal staged, fake, overly exaggerated conflict over trivial issues, like who took certain magazines on their weekend trip.  

[heatherchandler]

16 hours ago, Natalie68 said:

Let me tell you venues and the people in charge of concerts HATE it when the talent is late.  Also, since she wasn't on a tour in that area of the world that show hired her as a one off so they either paid her a ton or she does it just for the publicity.  Guessing just publicity.  But I have to give her credit for pursuing a dream that is costly and usually started by a very young person.

I am pretty sure Erika spends more on this than she brings in.  I doubt people are clammoring to see her.  She seems to have a little following, and she obviously has some success with the singles.  But for the amount of money she spent to rent out that estate in Greece, flying all the dancers out, paying the dancers, wardrobe, etc.  No way is she even breaking even.  This seems to be a dream of hers, and now she has enough money to play "dance star Erika Jayne."  

 

14 hours ago, Roxy said:

 

And LVP seems to be a victim of rapid aging syndrome. I've only seen this in soap operas until now. Maybe it's the not age appropriate long hair and '80's make up but she just seems as if she was hit with the aging stick this season. And she's not very old. I don't know. Maybe hanging out with the morons on VPR is speeding up the process. I don't know. 

Ha!  Yes!  She looks really old.  It is very apparent when you look at the old seasons, then look at her now.

 

12 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Yes, it says Kim started making "big bucks" but the author never claims Kim supported her family as so many seem to think she did.

I thought I remembered either Kim or Kyle saying the stuff about Kim being the breadwinner.  Was it in the 1st season?  I know that their dad had some money (obviously, or Big Kathy would not have hooked up with him) but Kim was bringing in some money, for sure.  I want to say the discussion had to do with who bought who a porsche.

 

1 hour ago, itainttippithebird said:

This picture is begging for one of those "How I Think I Look vs. How I Actually Look" captions. (Not a knock on Kyle's looks , just the drastic difference in sex kitten realness they're bringing.)

 

 

Kyle is sucking in HARD!

[SunnyBeBe]

27 minutes ago, AndySmith said:

I think they both look good.

I think that Erika and Kyle both look awesome in those photos.  What a great backdrop too!  I have noticed that Kyle seems to have a very strong appearance of insecurity in things like photos, clothes, posing, etc.  There's just something there that seems to say that she is not comfortable.  This is when she's with others too, not just Erika.  She looks so nice. I can't figure it out. 

[AndySmith]

I will cop to in that particular picture, she might not be all that comfortable or confident, but what I remember from that scene was that, as it went on, she seemed to find her groove, let go, and started having fun with Ericka, which, good for her.

Regardless, for someone who has had what, four kids? She looks good.

Edited January 27, 2017 by AndySmith

[Former Nun]

6 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

 She seems to have a little following, and she obviously has some success with the singles.

I picture a secretary at her husband's firm having a private office and his only job is to order, store, and TRY to give away those successful singles.

[rho]

24 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

It does seem like she uses them as props. I really noticed it this episode. The nanny (or baby nurse) brought Phoenix out, the ladies oohed and aahed at her, then you can tell she was getting fussy and crying and she immediately handed her back to the nanny.

I love when she was going around like "Have you met my daughter?" The kid is four months old and she's half expecting her to shake hands with everyone in the room. 

[Yours Truly]

26 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

You are welcome, but your outtake is only reference to a critical viewpoint. It's not the only perspective and it doesn't negate the fact that the problem exist.  The full article is quite informative. Here's another portion from it.

http://alcoholrehab.com/addiction-recovery/dry-drunk-syndrome/

I read the whole thing and there is a very sympathetic tone to it that I wanted to put in the forefront. Things that a lot of people seem to ignore or push to the wayside regarding the disease as a whole. This outlines how simplistic it isn't and unfortunately a lot of people like to regard it in a black and white sense which just isn't really realistic to the problem at hand.

[Jel]

Not to sound too much like former model, Pat Stevens (high five to the 90s SNL!), but Erika is much closer to being a pro at this than is Kyle. She has a lot of practice posing for pictures, and knows which poses flatter her the most, etc. For that reason, I'd expect Erika to look more polished in photos, which I think she appears to here. 

They both look good though, even if Kyle looks (understandably) a little uncomfortable sitting next to the Erika Jayne machine.

[SunnyBeBe]

Just now, Yours Truly said:

I read the whole thing and there is a very sympathetic tone to it that I wanted to put in the forefront. Things that a lot of people seem to ignore or push to the wayside regarding the disease as a whole. This outlines how simplistic it isn't and unfortunately a lot of people like to regard it in a black and white sense which just isn't really realistic to the problem at hand.

I agree that addiction is not simplistic, but sympathy offers little real help to an addict.  Addiction is a complex problem that requires an immense amount of education, work and diligence. I have witnessed it within my own family. 

[Yours Truly]

50 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

The point is the parents had an established lifestyle before Kim ever hit it big in Hollywood.  They lived in the same house that dad's money bought until Big Kathy decided to move to the desert.  I don't think Kim wanted to keep working because of pressure to keep a paycheck rolling in, I think she kept working because she was good at it and jobs were being offered.  It is not as if her mom was putting her out on the stroll at 13 years old.  She had a nice long run of Disney projects before having her James at 16 role and Hello Larry. 

If there mom was just a agent for child actors would this even be being discussed?  A big part of the reason parents get the money, except a statutory percentage, is because they have to forego a job to provide the support system for a child actor, driving them to auditions, work, studying lines, voice lessons, dance lessons and the like.  So do I think they had extras for the family because of Kim (and Kyle's) earnings, yes I do but I do think Kim directly benefitted from her working as she should.  The part about the parent and in Kim's case maternal grandparent are working is lost, their wages also contributed to the lifestyle, there job just happened to be working for Kim and later Kyle.  A part of the child's earnings are there wages for those working to make it happen.  Granted Kim didn't have a glam squad, but the help has to be compensated. 

The way it was best explained to me by an entertainment attorney was that young performers are like racehorses.  Sure it is the horse that runs the race, wins the race, and makes the money but there is a whole lot that goes into getting the horse to the point and maintaining the horse and someone (the owner) has to make it happen.  A horse who is doing well may move to an upgraded stable or get better jockeys and trainers but the owner still has to facilitate for the horse.  And this was from an attorney who advocated for child actors.   

Just pointing out that there is plenty of room to believe that Kim FELT as if she HAD to work to support her family. I'm also confused about the downplaying of Kim's contribution to the obvious luxuries that family reaped. Obviously the mom's role earns them some claim over the spoils but at the same time I'm doubt all of this logical reasoning, which of course, holds up tremendously, actually came into play during Kim's childhood interpretation of it.

That's all I put on the table. How did Kim understand it all? I'm more inclined to believe that Kim didn't have the same understanding of it all in the same way you've eloquently outlined it. Or realized that her mom "earned her keep" by promoting and assisting Kim in her endeavors. No one is trying to take away the logistics however there is more to it than rigid definitions of earned wages and percentages. Children don't wrap their heads around business in the same way adults do and I wouldn't fault Kim if she ever expressed that she felt her years of constant work gave her family the luxurious lifestyles they enjoyed while she grew up. She wouldn't be completely wrong to FEEL that way considering her limited understanding of such things as a child. That's all I'm pointing out.

47 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Sadly, KIm's situation is very public and by her own volition.  I look forward to seeing if Kim is how she is portraying herself this season.  It's been a long, life long challenge for her and she's never really been honest about it.  And of course, it's always other people's fault.  The problem with knowing how she's doing, is that she lies so much, you can't believe anything she says.  And Kyle too.  Based on Kyle's cheery comments, Kim's always just fine, everything is just fine OR she doesn't want to talk about it.  That's okay, but if that's the case, then, Kim should stay off the show.

 I actually look forward to this season.  Maybe, we can see some real emotions and honest reactions, as opposed to the normal staged, fake, overly exaggerated conflict over trivial issues, like who took certain magazines on their weekend trip.  

Or Kyle can continue giving those answers and they just move on with some other conversation. That would be okay too.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Yours Truly

[Yours Truly]

37 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

I am pretty sure Erika spends more on this than she brings in.  I doubt people are clammoring to see her.  She seems to have a little following, and she obviously has some success with the singles.  But for the amount of money she spent to rent out that estate in Greece, flying all the dancers out, paying the dancers, wardrobe, etc.  No way is she even breaking even.  This seems to be a dream of hers, and now she has enough money to play "dance star Erika Jayne."  

 

Ha!  Yes!  She looks really old.  It is very apparent when you look at the old seasons, then look at her now.

 

I thought I remembered either Kim or Kyle saying the stuff about Kim being the breadwinner.  Was it in the 1st season?  I know that their dad had some money (obviously, or Big Kathy would not have hooked up with him) but Kim was bringing in some money, for sure.  I want to say the discussion had to do with who bought who a porsche.

 

Kyle is sucking in HARD!

DUDE! That's what I was thinking. That just doesn't look right... LOL!

[ElDosEquis]

26 minutes ago, Jel said:

Not to sound too much like former model, Pat Stevens (high five to the 90s SNL!), but Erika is much closer to being a pro at this than is Kyle. She has a lot of practice posing for pictures, and knows which poses flatter her the most, etc. For that reason, I'd expect Erika to look more polished in photos, which I think she appears to here. 

They both look good though, even if Kyle looks (understandably) a little uncomfortable sitting next to the Erika Jayne machine.

I didn't know kyle was pals with Angelyne.......

[heatherchandler]

20 minutes ago, Jel said:

Not to sound too much like former model, Pat Stevens (high five to the 90s SNL!), but Erika is much closer to being a pro at this than is Kyle. She has a lot of practice posing for pictures, and knows which poses flatter her the most, etc. For that reason, I'd expect Erika to look more polished in photos, which I think she appears to here. 

 

"It's a picture of a woman in a fur, and she has a baby. I've always thought that children made the best accessories!"  

I LOVED Pat Stevens!!

"You can tell I'm a former model - thank you!"

[Yours Truly]

27 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I agree that addiction is not simplistic, but sympathy offers little real help to an addict.  Addiction is a complex problem that requires an immense amount of education, work and diligence. I have witnessed it within my own family. 

As have I.  Which is why it's up to each family to decide how much sympathy they are willing to offer or deny.  The journey has no set path and that's the part that should be sympathized with. The fact that each family has their own unique challenge to get through. No one size fits all and there is just no way to truly judge one families set of decisions vs. anothers. It's a hectic puzzle that some choose to help try and solve while some distance themselves from wreck and no matter who chooses what mistakes are gonna happen along the way.

Hits and misses through the whole journey and that in itself is what saddens me about the whole matter.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Yours Truly

[zoeysmom]

44 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

 

 

 

 

I thought I remembered either Kim or Kyle saying the stuff about Kim being the breadwinner.  Was it in the 1st season?  I know that their dad had some money (obviously, or Big Kathy would not have hooked up with him) but Kim was bringing in some money, for sure.  I want to say the discussion had to do with who bought who a porsche.

 

 

Kim claimed to be the breadwinner, Kyle refuted her saying their father always worked.

When Kim reached 18 she cashed in her trust fund and bought a Porsche and lived the good life.

Kim said she bought Kyle her first car (Kim would have been about 20) it was not a Porsche.  Kyle talked about sneaking Kim's Ferrari out and Monty spoke of when he first started dating Kim he bought them matching Ferraris. 

I thought it was funny this episode when Kyle said something about her mom driving around in her Seville, Erika kind of laughed and said, "a Seville?" 

[ElDosEquis]

13 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Kim claimed to be the breadwinner, Kyle refuted her saying their father always worked.

When Kim reached 18 she cashed in her trust fund and bought a Porsche and lived the good life.

Kim said she bought Kyle her first car (Kim would have been about 20) it was not a Porsche.  Kyle talked about sneaking Kim's Ferrari out and Monty spoke of when he first started dating Kim he bought them matching Ferraris. 

I thought it was funny this episode when Kyle said something about her mom driving around in her Seville, Erika kind of laughed and said, "a Seville?" 

EJ laughed because of the idea of someone driving a CITY around is beyond the scope of her comprehension.

[itainttippithebird]

Quote

I will cop to in that particular picture, she might not be all that comfortable or confident, but what I remember from that scene was that, as it went on, she seemed to find her groove, let go, and started having fun with Ericka, which, good for her.

Regardless, for someone who has had what, four kids? She looks good.

Agreed - the hair flip picture they were passing around at Dorit's party was fantastic! I just thought this particular moment had an air of "nailed it" and "am i...doing this right?!" in their respective faces.

Would that I COULD be look like Kyle Richards, truly!

[Jel]

48 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

"It's a picture of a woman in a fur, and she has a baby. I've always thought that children made the best accessories!"  

I LOVED Pat Stevens!!

"You can tell I'm a former model - thank you!"

I loved her, too HeatherChandler.  And she was so prophetic, with the kids as accessories.

[Jel]

47 minutes ago, zoeysmom said:

Kim claimed to be the breadwinner, Kyle refuted her saying their father always worked.

When Kim reached 18 she cashed in her trust fund and bought a Porsche and lived the good life.

Kim said she bought Kyle her first car (Kim would have been about 20) it was not a Porsche.  Kyle talked about sneaking Kim's Ferrari out and Monty spoke of when he first started dating Kim he bought them matching Ferraris. 

I thought it was funny this episode when Kyle said something about her mom driving around in her Seville, Erika kind of laughed and said, "a Seville?" 

I got the impression that Erika though the Seville was pure 70s awesome. Which, let's face it, it was.

Now I am curious about Monty's situation, if he could buy them both matching Ferraris.  Before they were married no less. The lives some of these people live are unreal.

[zoeysmom]

35 minutes ago, Jel said:

I got the impression that Erika though the Seville was pure 70s awesome. Which, let's face it, it was.

Now I am curious about Monty's situation, if he could buy them both matching Ferraris.  Before they were married no less. The lives some of these people live are unreal.

Monty came from a family that owned a chain of grocery stores in the South.  They sold right before he met Kim for $50 million bucks and Monty became a trust fund guy.  The money was from his mom's side as it was her father that founded the stores.  Shortly before the married, Monty got a million bucks and wrote a movie that Kim and Kyle starred in called "Escape" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099517/fullcredits?ref_=tt_ov_st_sm  You just have to love a movie with a cast that includes Hobo #1.  So he was able to call himself a producer film writer, but mostly he was a professional gambler.

[Inspectabecky]

2 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I think that Erika and Kyle both look awesome in those photos.  What a great backdrop too!  I have noticed that Kyle seems to have a very strong appearance of insecurity in things like photos, clothes, posing, etc.  There's just something there that seems to say that she is not comfortable.  This is when she's with others too, not just Erika.  She looks so nice. I can't figure it out. 

 One of her assistants totally nailed it last season, Kyle has body dysmorphia like a Mofo.  To dig further in my useless anecdotal bag I remember Kim teasing her about weight season one so I'm guessing Kyle has a complex. 

[Madame Helvetica]

While the episode was fairly boring, I totally cracked up at Kyle's talking head when she was imitating Erika in front of the camera. "How many fucks do I give???? ZERO! ZERO! ZEROOOOOO!" 

Well done, Kyle. Well done. 

[ladle]

It's quite a coup that Eden has somehow managed to knock Dorit off her pedestal as most annoying person on this show. 

[heatherchandler]

3 hours ago, Jel said:

I loved her, too HeatherChandler.  And she was so prophetic, with the kids as accessories.

Maybe Dorit was watching her, and decided she needed the right accessories!

Speaking of Dorit, I am trying to figure her accent out.  It is not just an accent, but the WAY she speaks. She is very careful with her words, hesitant.  I usually hear this from people who do not speak English as their first language.  It is a way of speaking slowly and deliberately, using some words cautiously.  Why the f would she need to speak this way???  She knows all of the English words!  Why act like it is difficult to speak in English?  I maybe kind of understand adopting an accent, if you live with someone who has one.  Maybe... BUT to take on this weird, hesitant I-don't-know-if-I-am-using-the-right-word affect, I have to wonder what her deal is.

Edited January 27, 2017 by heatherchandler

[ladle]

3 hours ago, zoeysmom said:

Kim claimed to be the breadwinner, Kyle refuted her saying their father always worked.

What's the deal with their father, anyway?  Is he still alive?  I don't think Kyle's ever mentioned him on the show, and I always got the sense that he was absent during their childhood.  But I guess not!

[Natalie68]

6 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

Did Kim know that when she was a child?

This has been debated over and over again and it just hit me. Sure, sure parents had money had jobs had this had that so the semantics of Kim being the breadwinner seems to get debunked all the time but I just realized did Kim REALIZE that if she didn't work the family would be just fine? I think that's key. It's not like children understand all that. Especially if she was constantly encouraged to keep that paycheck rolling in.

Let's lose the term bread winner. It's still just as bad if they just wanted the added HEFTY income Kim was bringing in for even MORE of the finer things in life. Either way, the way things were set up back then I don't have any problems believing that she was feeling some sort of pressure to contribute to the family finances. Regardless of whether she was the "breadwinner" or not.

Also, plenty of child stars had parents working and taking care of them before they hit it big and once they did........ You think the family didn't move on up to bigger and better USING the extra income from their children? How do you expect they maintained the bigger lifestyle if not for the additional income? You can't tell me that Kim's money wasn't a big part of whatever lifestyle they graduated to and maintained. I mean that would be a pretty reasonable assumption no?

I agree with the thinking that while Kim's salary didn't keep a roof over their head or food on the table it enabled them to live larger than they would have.  Who knows if its true.  It is sad if Kim only worked because she thought she was the breadwinner.  Or had to give up a childhood so the family could have nicer cars and shiny things.

5 hours ago, AndySmith said:

I think they both look good.

Me too

[zoeysmom]

5 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

Just pointing out that there is plenty of room to believe that Kim FELT as if she HAD to work to support her family. I'm also confused about the downplaying of Kim's contribution to the obvious luxuries that family reaped. Obviously the mom's role earns them some claim over the spoils but at the same time I'm doubt all of this logical reasoning, which of course, holds up tremendously, actually came into play during Kim's childhood interpretation of it.

That's all I put on the table. How did Kim understand it all? I'm more inclined to believe that Kim didn't have the same understanding of it all in the same way you've eloquently outlined it. Or realized that her mom "earned her keep" by promoting and assisting Kim in her endeavors. No one is trying to take away the logistics however there is more to it than rigid definitions of earned wages and percentages. Children don't wrap their heads around business in the same way adults do and I wouldn't fault Kim if she ever expressed that she felt her years of constant work gave her family the luxurious lifestyles they enjoyed while she grew up. She wouldn't be completely wrong to FEEL that way considering her limited understanding of such things as a child. That's all I'm pointing out.

Or Kyle can continue giving those answers and they just move on with some other conversation. That would be okay too.

I believe this is the key.  Kim's lack of maturity or unwillingness to look at the black and white have not been her friend. I don't think Kim felt that way as a child, I think she was good at what she did and enjoyed the spotlight and all the love she had from fans and family.  I believe Kim's comments came when she was drinking, her life and financial life was out of control and she has developed over the years the idea she is owed for what she contributed to the family with her talent.  I do believe in her drinking years she grew bitter and continued to live life large with very generous child support. The money ran out because of a lack of discipline by Kim, not because someone stole it from her.   Her mother bought her a house in Indian Wells in the late 1990s-not the goddamn house, but one of three her mother purchased as investments after the sale of the Bel Air home purchased before Kim was a star.  These were not mansions  2000 square feet, but homes.  This is after mom lived and paid for a house in Bel-Air (actually closer to Sherman Oaks) for 28 years-only ten of those years was Kim actually working full time.   Over the years she has received a lot of family help that most likely far exceeds what she made as a child.

I think the idea the luxury lifestyle is misplace the foundation was in place with the Bel Air home and I would like to think that if Kim ever took time to see a balance sheet she would be a little taken back at what her actually contributions were.  Here is the goddamn house in Indian Wells: https://www.redfin.com/CA/Indian-Wells/45389-Club-Dr-92210/home/5962465  As you can see from when it was purchase in 1996 and what Kyle and Mauricio paid for it in 2004, and sold it for 10 years later.  Kim and Kathy made money on it, Kyle and Mauricio lost money.  But in Kim's eyes they sold her goddamn house to buy their 2 million home in La Quinta.  Kim just doesn't get it.  She got a great deal. 

I do know Kim was generous to a fault to friends and family and a certain ex-husband.  Is it unfair and unwise for Kim to continue to ruminate over what could have been. In retrospect perhaps trips to Paris for the family on a whim, or unfettered spending on indulging her children contributed to her precarious situation.  One thing is for sure she needs to move on. 

[Jel]

1 hour ago, heatherchandler said:

Maybe Dorit was watching her, and decided she needed the right accessories!

Speaking of Dorit, I am trying to figure her accent out.  It is not just an accent, but the WAY she speaks. She is very careful with her words, hesitant.  I usually hear this from people who do not speak English as their first language.  It is a way of speaking slowly and deliberately, using some words cautiously.  Why the f would she need to speak this way???  She knows all of the English words!  Why act like it is difficult to speak in English?  I maybe kind of understand adopting an accent, if you live with someone who has one.  Maybe... BUT to take on this weird, hesitant I-don't-know-if-I-am-using-the-right-word affect, I have to wonder what her deal is.

I'm going with "Affectation" for $100!

[zoeysmom]

1 hour ago, ladle said:

What's the deal with their father, anyway?  Is he still alive?  I don't think Kyle's ever mentioned him on the show, and I always got the sense that he was absent during their childhood.  But I guess not!

He died in 1999.  Had he lived he would have been 100 years old this year.  I believe even after the divorce he continued to live on the Bel Air property for years.  He supported his family.

[Jel]

Zoeysmom, thank you for all the extra info and background you provide. It's nice of you to take the time to look that stuff up and post it. Much appreciated :)

PS I somehow thought the goddam house was grander. Maybe it looked better on tv.

PPS Those property taxes are pretty high. 

Edited January 27, 2017 by Jel
Attempting to edit, then quoting myself, then panicking. Sheesh.

[mothmonsterman]

6 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I think that Erika and Kyle both look awesome in those photos.  What a great backdrop too!  I have noticed that Kyle seems to have a very strong appearance of insecurity in things like photos, clothes, posing, etc.  There's just something there that seems to say that she is not comfortable.  This is when she's with others too, not just Erika.  She looks so nice. I can't figure it out. 

Most likely it is because so many people call her fat and make fun of her body.  Somewhere upthread someone mentioned a blog or something that mentions Kyle's backfat every single article.  I think that is beyond stupid, and for someone to make fun of Kyle for being "fat" is warped.  But, it is what it is.  Seems like women are either fat to people or anorexic.  Tearing apart other women's looks seems to be a pastime of many people.