Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)

[VCRTracking]

3 hours ago, slf said:

So that Johnson is framing it that way means one thing and one thing only: Kylo's gonna get a redemption arc.

The irony is it's something Han, Leia and Luke want but some fans really don't.

[scriggle]

They can redeem him the same way Vader was redeemed: dying to save Rey or Finn or Poe. That's the only redemption that I'd find acceptable.

[Wynterwolf]

13 minutes ago, scriggle said:

They can redeem him the same way Vader was redeemed: dying to save Rey or Finn or Poe. That's the only redemption that I'd find acceptable.

Which would nicely parallel when he made the choice to kill Han, give him an opportunity to make a difference for good by choosing to sacrifice himself instead (and let him stay dead!!  Let that be his end!).  Like the Rogue One crew did.  

[VCRTracking]

And for the Skywalker Family saga to truly end the last Skywalker has to die(I'm believing Rey isn't one).

ETA: And any other villain I wouldn't mind 1 dimensional villainy and simple evil motivations but it's Leia and Han's son and Luke's nephew. I want there to be complexity.

Edited December 3, 2017 by VCRTracking

[Spartan Girl]

If they want to redeem him (and kill him off in the process) that's fine with me as long as they don't try to justify his actions. Because the whole "boo hoo, my parents didn't pay enough attention to me so I joined the dark side" shit doesn't work.

But pair him with Rey and we riot.

[Wynterwolf]

44 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

ETA: And any other villain I wouldn't mind 1 dimensional villainy and simple evil motivations but it's Leia and Han's son and Luke's nephew. I want there to be complexity.

Absolutely, me too.  But I don't want the enormity of the evil that he's done to be whitewashed or mitigated in any way.  He's made those choices, he needs to own them.  But, no matter what someone has done, there's always the opportunity to learn, understand and realize mistakes.  There's always an opportunity to make a different choice.  

[slf]

7 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

And for the Skywalker Family saga to truly end the last Skywalker has to die(I'm believing Rey isn't one).

ETA: And any other villain I wouldn't mind 1 dimensional villainy and simple evil motivations but it's Leia and Han's son and Luke's nephew. I want there to be complexity.

I'm all for complexity, don't get me wrong. But in tv/movies that usually means they're going to make excuses for what he's done. "He felt unloved, Snoke manipulated him, etc." They're going to give him "reasons" and reasons always mean humanity and humanity always means you can be saved (which isn't true at all, but hey, always gotta romanticize and prioritize the violent white guy). Kylo helped slaughter his uncle's students and became a leader in a regime that has destroyed planets (killing millions, if not more), kidnapped children and kept them as slaves, murdered countless men and women for refusing to submit, etc. IMO it doesn't matter if he felt neglected. I believe he has a soul and reasons for why he's done what he's done and I think neither of those things matter. I don't believe that one guy's potential for redemption is so utterly important he should be given a chance to come back. At the very least even if Kylo helps brings down Snoke he should be immediately arrested and spend the rest of his life in prison.

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, slf said:

I'm all for complexity, don't get me wrong. But in tv/movies that usually means they're going to make excuses for what he's done. "He felt unloved, Snoke manipulated him, etc." They're going to give him "reasons" and reasons always mean humanity and humanity always means you can be saved (which isn't true at all, but hey, always gotta romanticize and prioritize the violent white guy). Kylo helped slaughter his uncle's students and became a leader in a regime that has destroyed planets (killing millions, if not more), kidnapped children and kept them as slaves, murdered countless men and women for refusing to submit, etc. IMO it doesn't matter if he felt neglected. I believe he has a soul and reasons for why he's done what he's done and I think neither of those things matter. I don't believe that one guy's potential for redemption is so utterly important he should be given a chance to come back. At the very least even if Kylo helps brings down Snoke he should be immediately arrested and spend the rest of his life in prison.

Exactly, Kylo can be redeemed, that's fine. But he still has to pay for what he did. 

[VCRTracking]

9 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

15 hours ago, slf said:

I'm all for complexity, don't get me wrong. But in tv/movies that usually means they're going to make excuses for what he's done. "He felt unloved, Snoke manipulated him, etc." They're going to give him "reasons" and reasons always mean humanity and humanity always means you can be saved (which isn't true at all, but hey, always gotta romanticize and prioritize the violent white guy). Kylo helped slaughter his uncle's students and became a leader in a regime that has destroyed planets (killing millions, if not more), kidnapped children and kept them as slaves, murdered countless men and women for refusing to submit, etc. IMO it doesn't matter if he felt neglected. I believe he has a soul and reasons for why he's done what he's done and I think neither of those things matter. I don't believe that one guy's potential for redemption is so utterly important he should be given a chance to come back. At the very least even if Kylo helps brings down Snoke he should be immediately arrested and spend the rest of his life in prison.

Exactly, Kylo can be redeemed, that's fine. But he still has to pay for what he did. 

I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished.  I do think it's better for fans to believe Kylo has always been a bad seed and irredeemably evil because it let's Leia, Han and Luke off the hook.

[Spartan Girl]

47 minutes ago, VCRTracking said:

I'm not saying he shouldn't be punished.  I do think it's better for fans to believe Kylo has always been a bad seed and irredeemably evil because it let's Leia, Han and Luke off the hook.

Unless Leia and Han physically/emotionally abused Kylo to the point where he became so twisted that he joined the dark side -- which is pretty damn obvious that they didn't -- I don't think ANY other possible parental failings justify Kylo's choices.

Han and Leia weren't perfect and they probably weren't perfect parents.  But they didn't deserve Kylo betraying them.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Spartan Girl

[VCRTracking]

23 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

Unless Leia and Han physically/emotionally abused Kylo to the point where he became so twisted that he joined the dark side -- which is pretty damn obvious that they didn't -- I don't think ANY other possible parental failings justify Kylo's choices.

Han and Leia weren't perfect and they probably weren't perfect parents.  But they didn't deserve Kylo betraying them.

I agree.

[DollEyes]

ITA. Hàn, Leia & Luke may not have always been "perfect" where Kylo Ben was concerned, but at least Ben hàd a family; Finn & Rey didn't but they still are much better than Ben, who had a loving family who did the best they could for him, but he betrayed them &  everything they believed/believe in to become a petulant, fascist, genocidal & patricidal maniac of his own free will.

Instead of learning from his late grandpa's mistakes,  Ben turned to the Dark Side & destroyed his family. Ben is evil because of his  choices, not theirs. Given all the crimes that Ben has committed, especially against his own flesh & blood, prison and/or death are his only choices for redemption, as far as I'm concerned.

Às for Finn & Poe, I think they're just friends. I don't see any romantic chemistry between them & I don't believe that TPTB will/should make them a couple. Subtext-wise,the closest that the Stár Wars movie verse ever came to real same-sex couples was Qui Gon Ginn & Obi-Wan Kenobi from Phantom Menace, Chirrut Imwe & Maze Balbus from  Rogue One & C-3PO &R2D2. The first word that Finn said when he woke up was "Rey," so I believe that the chances of Finn & Poe getting together are slim to none.

That being said, Finn & Poe would make more sense than Reylo. Ugh! Even typing the name makes me sick.

Edited December 5, 2017 by DollEyes

[Spartan Girl]

Yeah Finn and Poe just seemed like good buddies with mutual admiration and respect. Rey on the other hand...it was made pretty clear that Finn does have more than platonic feelings for her. "Do you have a boyfriend?" LOL.

[Wynterwolf]

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Rey on the other hand...it was made pretty clear that Finn does have more than platonic feelings for her. 

And yet she treats him like a brother, and as their interaction progressed through the movie, it became more even more brother-sister-like, not less...

 

2 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Yeah Finn and Poe just seemed like good buddies with mutual admiration and respect

I'll agree that Finn's interactions with Poe, so far, don't feel like more than that, but Poe's "Keep it, it's suits you," about the jacket was as flirty as Finn's 'boyfriend' question to Rey (and frankly, was a much better 'come on' line).  And it is clear, as you point out, that Finn and Poe have a strong connection of mutual admiration and respect.  Other grand romances have started on much less.  

Both John Boyega and Oscar Issac have said that Poe and Finn don't have much in the way of 'romantic' interaction in TLJ (though actors aren't always a good judge of how their interaction will come across to an audience), so I don't expect much more than them still being bonded over fighting for this cause together... but even if they still just continue to develop their friendship, that is another step in a potential romance.  And with Rey's focus being taken up with finding and training with Luke, and the pursuit of finding her own destiny, I actually expect her and Finn to have even less interaction than Poe and Finn in this movie.  

Edited December 5, 2017 by Wynterwolf

[DollEyes]

Regarding TLJ, because of Rey's Jedi training with Luke & Finn's new friendship with Rose, a fellow Resistance fighter, they probably won't have much, if any, time together, but I'm optimistic. Just because a couple doesn't spend every second together, that doesn't mean they don't love each other. Case in point: Han & Leia.

  I'm not sayng that Finn & Rey are even  remotely in their league, although I ship them, but I do think that they've got potential. When a frantic Finn chased Ben's ship after Ben took Rey in a futile attempt to save her, I knew that if he didn't already love her, he was getting there. When Finn had his lightsaber fight with Ben after he attacked Rey again despite his lack of training, I was sold. By the same token, when Rey cried over an unconscious Finn & even kissed his forehead after kicking Ben's ass, that showed me that she has feelings for him. They may be platonic, but just because Finn & Rey started in the friend zone, that doesn't mean that they'll stay there.

[Wynterwolf]

2 minutes ago, DollEyes said:

They may be platonic, but just because Finn & Rey started in the friend zone, that doesn't mean that they'll stay there.

And you can say this exact same thing about Finn & Poe.  ;-)

[DollEyes]

4 hours ago, Wynterwolf said:

And you can say this exact same thing about Finn & Poe. 

True, but I still don't think that TPTB will go there because of the more conservative international markets where homosexuality is illegal,  especially in China & Russia, which are notoriously homophobic. In fairness, there are similar attitudes towards interracial relationships, but since they're not sexually explicit & they're straight, that makes them easier to market internationally. 

On another note, I'm calling it now: either Rose is directly involved with the First Order or she knows someone who is.

[afterbite]

Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - the most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia shipper war".

[Wynterwolf]

49 minutes ago, DollEyes said:

but since [snip] they're straight

There's... actually no way to know this without the character specifically identifying as such and providing there's no story/character reason for them to lie or hedge or lack self-awareness.  The viewer can assume they are straight, most people are subconsciously conditioned to not see potential romantic chemistry between two men, or two women.  Financial implications for other countries notwithstanding, dismissing out of hand the idea that at this point, there is just as much potential for a Finn/Poe romance as there is for a Rey/Finn one is called hetero-normative bias.  Whether or not someone personally likes the idea of a specific potential romance is another matter altogether.  And it's always possible to release versions in other countries that eliminate certain scenes, and I think it's likely there'd never be more than a kiss shown in this trilogy so it would probably be easy to lift out... or TPTB could choose to forgo any kind of romantic arc between any of the main three heroes and focus solely on the familial/friendship relationships instead.    

[DollEyes]

I somewhat agree. It's true that same-sex kisses can be edited out for foreign versions of films, but my point is that while some countries are more tolerant, other places-including, unfortunately, some parts of America- are still so backwards that chances are they won't even film a same-sex kiss in the first place, let alone cut it.

  Chemistry is subjective. Just because someone doesn't see it between two characters of the same gender, that doesn't mean that they're guilty of "heteronormative bias" anymore than someone's not seeing chemistry between two characters of different colors means they're guilty of racism.

 Moving on, Daisy Ridley is on the covers of V & Glamour magazines while Adam Driver is on the covers of the new issues of Esquire & British GQ.

Edited December 5, 2017 by DollEyes

[Wynterwolf]

2 hours ago, DollEyes said:

Chemistry is subjective.

That's true, and I was trying to differentiate between potential and preference and I shouldn't have used the word chemistry where I did.  Right now, the potential is there for any of those pairings and each is equally as valid to speculate about and explore as the others.  But assuming that anyone is straight is a bias.  

 

eta:  Oscar Isaac's take on Poe's sexuality.

Edited December 6, 2017 by Wynterwolf

[DollEyes]

Quote

But assuming anyone is straight is a bias.

So is assuming that anyone is LGBT unless they say it themselves. :)

It would be nice if a Star Wars movie had a major LGBT character, but if it doesn't, I wouldn't be surprised.

8 hours ago, afterbite said:

Ha ha! You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders - the most famous of which is "never get involved in a land war in Asia shipper war".

 I'm not in a shipper war, but if I was, since I'm immune to iocaine powder (unlike Vizzini), I'll be fine. 

[jah1986]

Really looking forward to this, can't wait for December 15th, may have to take off work early.  I still don't completely trust Poe. I haven't been able to reconcile his getting off that planet and back to the resistance, haven't been able to buy his explanation to Finn.  So I can't relax when his character is on screen enough to get invested in a potential relationship because I still think he's shady.

And just no to any kind of Rey/Kylo romantic relationship.

[Wynterwolf]

7 hours ago, DollEyes said:

So is assuming that anyone is LGBT unless they say it themselves. :)

There is a difference between unconsciously assuming something is true, and understanding that it's something that is unknown (like Rey's parentage), and being open to different possibilities.  I'm not saying any of these characters are queer, I'm enjoying speculating on the possibility that they could be, and how that could be supported by the text and actor portrayal.   There is a romance trope where Character A (in this scenario, Poe) has a crush on Character B (Finn), but Character B has a crush on Character C (Rey) and either C is an entitled douchbag (not the case here), or C just wants to be friends with Character B.  And eventually through the story, Character B grows to understand that Character C is actually the one that is perfect for them.  I'm not saying they will do that here, I'm saying that based on what we know so far, they could do something like that here.  But my suspicion is that they are mainly going to focus on the conflict and drama of the non-romance relationships, and I'm expecting that to be thrilling and gut-wrenching.  But my being able to imagine feelings eventually growing beyond friendship between Finn and Poe is going to enhance my enjoyment of the movie, just as I imagine other's being able to imagine feeling growing beyond friendship between Finn and Rey will enhance theirs.  

There's also been a lot of speculation that Luke Skywalker could be asexual as well and Mark Hamill has answered that much the same as Oscar Isaac did about his character, since nothing has been stated in the text of the movies either way.  I believe it will be an important step for the franchise, once they begin to add canon queer human characters to the movies.  

 

7 hours ago, DollEyes said:

It would be nice if a Star Wars movie had a major LGBT character, but if it doesn't, I wouldn't be surprised.

I wouldn't be surprised either, because seriously, who would be surprised by a lack of queer representation in any property?  But Star Trek has done it (both the movie franchise and the TV show) and there is a canon gay character in the Star Wars: Aftermath book series, so they are getting closer.  I am hoping for sooner rather than later.  

1 minute ago, jah1986 said:

I still don't completely trust Poe. I haven't been able to reconcile his getting off that planet and back to the resistance, haven't been able to buy his explanation to Finn. 

Yeah, that was a pretty big plot hole.  I think I remember reading that they hadn't intended his character to live, so they didn't have an answer for that, but maybe we'll find out in this movie if he and Leia talk at all about what happened to him.  **fingers crossed**

[VCRTracking]

Here's a great interview with Rian Johnson and producer Ram Bergman:

Entertainment News: How to Direct Star Wars with Rian Johnson and Ram Bergman

[DollEyes]

Mark Hamill, Daisy Ridley & Adam Driver are on the cover of the new Rolling Stone.

[VCRTracking]

On 12/6/2017 at 5:41 AM, Wynterwolf said:

On 12/6/2017 at 5:40 AM, jah1986 said:

I still don't completely trust Poe. I haven't been able to reconcile his getting off that planet and back to the resistance, haven't been able to buy his explanation to Finn. 

Yeah, that was a pretty big plot hole.  I think I remember reading that they hadn't intended his character to live, so they didn't have an answer for that, but maybe we'll find out in this movie if he and Leia talk at all about what happened to him.  **fingers crossed**

Blowing up Starkiller Base was all part of Snoke's plan!

[Wynterwolf]

1 minute ago, VCRTracking said:

Blowing up Starkiller Base was all part of Snoke's plan!

He's a crafty one!!  :-D

[Perfect Xero]

4 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Blowing up Starkiller Base was all part of Snoke's plan!

Hux Weasley would have totally used it to blow up all the Republic planets rather than just the capital and what's the point of being an evil space wizard if you don't have any good guys to subjugate?

[VCRTracking]

From EW.com:

Star Wars: The Last Jedi scores major praise in first reactions from premiere

ETA: This heartwarming moment Kelly Marie Tran who was emotionally overwhelmed at the premiere and Daisy Ridley(who had experienced the same thing two years ago) comforting her:

And this:

Edited December 11, 2017 by VCRTracking

[VCRTracking]

94% on Rotten Tomatoes of 111 reviews(104 fresh, 7 rotten)

[SimoneS]

I can't wait. I am going on Saturday.

[Spartan Girl]

Planning on Saturday but if I can get into a late show on Friday I will.

[CofCinci]

The spoilers are all over the Internet now. 

Spoiler

This ‘Force Bonding’ crap sounds a little too TWILIGHT for my taste but I’ll see it on screen before making my final ruling. 

RIP Luke.  

[MrsR]

I see it Friday afternoon.  So excited.

[Spartan Girl]

Must. Not. Look. At. Spoilers. Must. Not....

Oh God, I'm not gonna make it...

[anna0852]

Hang in there! Only 2 more days.

[Iceman91]

Back from the movie, it was very good but it also felt very different from the previous Star Wars Johnson took a few bold choices and I think it's going to be a divisive movie.

And now I'm going to put my thoughts under spoiler tags

Spoiler

-Obviously, the most divisive part will be Luke's story. I like most of his arc, his relationship with Rey that he cut himself from the force and isn't instantly convinced by Rey but his ending, I don't know.

He'll probably be back as a ghost and got to leave on a badass moment but in light of Carrie's passing I'd wish that they kept him around, it gives the impression that they are getting rid of the old generation one by one.

-There were some very cool ideas with the force like Luke using a sort of astral projection and ghost Yoda throwing lightnings, Leia flying through space was super cheesy though not a fan of this one.

- Leia has a few good moments and there's a beautiful scene with Luke sadly done after Carrie's death, Luke's words about the people who disappear were lovely

- Rey and Ben's story was pretty clever, it's played as a romantic story for most of the movie including a scene of Rey surprising  a shirtless Ben and then when you think these two are getting together they commit to make Ben 100% evil

- Finn isn't given much to do  but I really liked Rose, it's too bad that their story turns out to be useless except for the kids' scenes and is part of the portion of the movie that drags too much

- I'm not very confident for episode 9, Carrie was clearly supposed to be a big part of the movie and it's going to be hard to replace her, the resistance is left in an impossible position and they will need a giant ex Machina to defeat the first order especially with JJ's lack of imagination.

It's going to be weird to see JJ come back when Johnson gleefully threw away most of his ideas like Snoke ( a character that clearly nobody knew what to do with) and Rey being the special one.

2

[Captain Carrot]

On 12/12/2017 at 1:07 PM, VCRTracking said:

94% on Rotten Tomatoes of 111 reviews(104 fresh, 7 rotten)

And that's for all of the critics. It's currently at 95% for the top critics. (How often does that happen).

[Joe]

Yeah. What an... interesting movie. I love it, but with reservations. Basically, I found it a little too long.

Spoiler

And Luke was very underdone. He never actually left the planet! He never got into a proper lightsabre duel! However, Ren killing Snoke/tag-teaming with Rey was awesome! Along with Holdo's kamikazi move. Those were my two real highlights. Also, the lightsabre hitting Rey in the head. I laughted, but didn't hear anyone else. Finally, did that kid at the end pick up his broom with the Force? I couldn't be sure.

[Snipsa]

Just back from the movie.  I really enjoyed it a lot.  Answered a few of my questions following Force Awakens, but definitely not a lot of them.

 

Spoiler

I was not a big fan of the Force connection between Kylo and Rey, I didn't feel it was earned and felt that it cheapened the character of Rey in a way - the fact that she felt she could turn him, when his own FATHER could not...

 

Also not sure if I believed Ren's explanation of Reys' parents, think there is still something there.

 

 

I loved Rose and Finn in this.  I know most people said they were their least favorite scenes, for me it was the opposite, I felt real tension as well as chemistry when they were on screen and may have whooped when Finn finally got his revenge on Phasma.

 

I know there are a lot of Poe/Finn and Rey/Finn shippers out there.  I must say I felt more spark between Poe and Rey in the second they were together than anything between Rey and Finn. (Poe and Finn do have chemistry, but I can unfortunately not see TPTB going that route).  I do like the fledgling relationship between Rose and Finn.

 

Luke and Leia were great.  I loved their little scene "together".  Did feel strong emotions whenever Carrie Fisher was on screen.  Ep IX is going to be tough.

 

I do agree with the previous poster that said they don't see how there is any chance for the resistance to conquer in the final part, unless there is a major deus ex machina.  My hope is that there were Rebels on other planets that picked up their signal and are busy getting a massive fleet together (preferably headed by Hera, Jarrus, Ezra or any of the animated heroes) to join this rag tag group, but can't really see that happening...

[Cobalt Stargazer]

I also don't think Kylo wasn't lying about Rey's parents. He has no reason to tell her the truth about anything, and if he can convince her that she's orphan trash then he can get her to cleave to him. Why he would want that when he's made every effort to kill her before this is the mystery.

I can't lie, I cried the first time Carrie Fisher showed up on screen. And a couple of times after that. And then again when Luke kissed her on the forehead.

Holdo's light speed Kamikaze move made the theater go just as quiet as the movie.

Luke flicking salt off of his robe was hilarious, as was Kylo looking like he was about to cry when he realized he'd been fooled.

And I think Hux is getting about as sick off His Royal Douchiness as I am, which I didn't think was possible. His face when they went into the mine after everyone boarded the Falcon was like, "How much trouble would it be to kill you in your sleep?"

[dkb]

On 12/14/2017 at 2:24 AM, Joe said:

Yeah. What an... interesting movie. I love it, but with reservations. Basically, I found it a little too long.

  Hide contents

And Luke was very underdone. He never actually left the planet! He never got into a proper lightsabre duel! However, Ren killing Snoke/tag-teaming with Rey was awesome! Along with Holdo's kamikazi move. Those were my two real highlights. Also, the lightsabre hitting Rey in the head. I laughted, but didn't hear anyone else. Finally, did that kid at the end pick up his broom with the Force? I couldn't be sure.

 

My theatre laughed at Rey getting boinked in the head with the saber. But, that was my question at the end. I'm pretty sure the little kid moved the broom with the Force, but no one in the theatre reacted to that expect me. Weird.

21 hours ago, Snipsa said:

Just back from the movie.  I really enjoyed it a lot.  Answered a few of my questions following Force Awakens, but definitely not a lot of them.

 

  Hide contents

I loved Rose and Finn in this.  I know most people said they were their least favorite scenes, for me it was the opposite, I felt real tension as well as chemistry when they were on screen and may have whooped when Finn finally got his revenge on Phasma.

 

 

Yayy, I loved Rose and Finn too. I thought their story was great, although I didn't like the kiss at the end. Even Finn seemed confused.

 

On 12/13/2017 at 1:05 PM, Iceman91 said:

Back from the movie, it was very good but it also felt very different from the previous Star Wars Johnson took a few bold choices and I think it's going to be a divisive movie.

And now I'm going to put my thoughts under spoiler tags

  Reveal hidden contents

-Obviously, the most divisive part will be Luke's story. I like most of his arc, his relationship with Rey that he cut himself from the force and isn't instantly convinced by Rey but his ending, I don't know.

He'll probably be back as a ghost and got to leave on a badass moment but in light of Carrie's passing I'd wish that they kept him around, it gives the impression that they are getting rid of the old generation one by one.

-There were some very cool ideas with the force like Luke using a sort of astral projection and ghost Yoda throwing lightnings, Leia flying through space was super cheesy though not a fan of this one.

- Leia has a few good moments and there's a beautiful scene with Luke sadly done after Carrie's death, Luke's words about the people who disappear were lovely

- Rey and Ben's story was pretty clever, it's played as a romantic story for most of the movie including a scene of Rey surprising  a shirtless Ben and then when you think these two are getting together they commit to make Ben 100% evil

- Finn isn't given much to do  but I really liked Rose, it's too bad that their story turns out to be useless except for the kids' scenes and is part of the portion of the movie that drags too much

- I'm not very confident for episode 9, Carrie was clearly supposed to be a big part of the movie and it's going to be hard to replace her, the resistance is left in an impossible position and they will need a giant ex Machina to defeat the first order especially with JJ's lack of imagination.

It's going to be weird to see JJ come back when Johnson gleefully threw away most of his ideas like Snoke ( a character that clearly nobody knew what to do with) and Rey being the special one.

2

 

^^ Agree with what you said  @Iceman91 except the Rose/Finn part.

I swear the director was straight up trolling us with the Kylo/Rey story at first. I was literally like, really their going here. Kylo and Hux are both douche bags, THEY deserve each other.

I really liked it, but I've only watched the 2 new Star Wars movies. Some really badass moments for a lot of people.

Edited December 15, 2017 by dkb
removed spoiler tags

[absnow54]

My first reaction to this movie is pretty meh. It had some great moments, but it had some serious pacing issues. The climax basically happened halfway through the movie. Luke owned the whole movie though. And was that 

Spoiler

Puppet Yoda?

 

oh, and I'm guessing the gold dice are going to be heavily featured in Solo. 

Edited December 15, 2017 by absnow54

[Morrigan2575]

37 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

My first reaction to this movie is pretty meh. It had some great moments, but it had some serious pacing issues. The climax basically happened halfway through the movie. Luke owned the whole movie though. And was that 

  Reveal hidden contents

Puppet Yoda?

 

oh, and I'm guessing the gold dice are going to be heavily featured in Solo. 

Yeah I didn't come out of it pumped, excited, wanting to talk about it or re-watch it.

I agree with the previous poster about that one scene 

Spoiler

where Leia floats through space. First it thought she died, then I thought force gbost but when it was neither I found it totally cheesy.

[Joe]

I really liked

Spoiler

Leia in space. I'm always curious about new Force powers. If she'd been completely fine after her EVA, that would have been too much. But it felt just enough.

[SNeaker]

I thought there were some really great moments in this one...but that's all it was. A collection of cool moments, but no cohesive story, no plot, no arc, no journey.

No point.

[bluvelvet]

I just got back,  I actually really liked it, it had some tension filled moments. I was unhappy that Luke "died" but then I remembered that he's a Jedi and they can always come back as a force ghost. 

I liked Leia in space, showed some of her force powers and I assume that Luke is the one who got her out of her coma. 

Astral projection Luke got applause in my theatre, cool move show.

I also totally fell for the bait and switch with Kylo and Rey. When he killed Snoke I thought it was a redux of ROTJ with Vader and they totally flipped the script so they get cool points for that one. 

Edited December 17, 2017 by bluvelvet

[calliope1975]

My theater was in to it the entire time, and I was, too. Maybe I just needed to be beat over the head with the message of hope after current world events, but I loved it. 

I was hoping Luke would go out like Old Ben Kenobi and he did, sorta. My whole theater erupted when it was shown that he was floating on a rock the entire time. 

I'm glad Kylo is still the same whiny asshole he was in TFA and that Rey was ultimately not here for his dark side pitch. I look forward to Rey kicking his ass. I liked Finn and Rose (I am in love with Kelly Marie Tran,) and I like their relationship, but that kiss did come out of left field. 

Leia floating her way back onto the ship was cheesy as hell, but CF is gone and I don't care. Every part with Leia was great. I full on started streaming tears when Luke and Leia were reunited, partly because it's been so long onscreen, and partly because it won't happen again without some CGI magic. 

The shots of the speeders/whatever they were trailing the red salt over the white was gorgeous. 

That kid at the end absolutely used the force with the broom, and I was moved with the message of hope (as said above.) I can't wait to see all the new Jedi. Maybe the resistance can finally win this thing. 

The only thing I was waiting for that didn't happen was for someone - preferably a Skywalker - to lose a hand. It's tradition!

Edited December 15, 2017 by calliope1975

[SeanC]

I thought this movie was a total mess, unfortunately. There's like a dozen different ideas mixed in here, and a bunch of dumb plotting -- in particular, everything to do with Laura Dern, who keeps her plan a secret for no reason other than to drive the plot, and then the movie tries to make this out as some sort of moral example about not being concerned primarily with being seen as a hero, as if that was what was driving Poe, rather than the fact that the good guys seemed to have no strategy whatsoever.

And pretty much all the combat sequences feature some bizarre pacing decisions, such as, again, Laura Dern just watching the fleet get progressively slaughtered for like 20 minutes before doing the thing she could have done immediately to save everybody. And why does this supposedly tense chase sequence with the fleet being run ragged make time to send the heroes off on a random James Bond escapade? Why did Del Toro's character have anything to do with the protagonists in the first place when he clearly didn't need anything from them? Are we supposed to think it's good that Rose stops Finn's kamikaze run, even though that sort of sacrifice is something we've seen other characters do in this series before, the result is that the First Order would have been able to kill them all, and is indeed what Luke subsequently does in the same film?

There are some moments that I think work on paper, like the twist of Kylo killing Snoke but the way it's executed is just lame, particularly in that it leaves Snoke, a huge part of this series' putative backstory, totally unexplained. Which, relatedly, this movie doubles down on one of the weak points of the TFA, namely, the new series' shoddy worldbuilding in its desperation to reset things to the status quo of the original trilogy. The opening crawl tells us that the First Order reigns supreme...how? How the hell did these guys conquer the galaxy when the last time we saw them, they sustained a catastrophic defeat? These guys are not the Empire, but you wouldn't know it from this.

The other problem with killing off Snoke is that we're left with Kylo and Hux as villains, and they're both lame.  I figured that if something like this happened Kylo would become more intimidating, but he's still as big a loser as before.