S04.E19: On the Eve

[BitterApple]

47 minutes ago, ChromaKelly said:

Ivar is still disturbingly hot. What's wrong with me? 
 

Crazy guys are oddly sexy....

[bluvelvet]

I have to give Bjorn his respect for being open minded to Ivar's plan, that is a true leader. 

I saw Torvi blink but she had 2 arrows in her, I just don't know if she is alive but I hope she is. She has young children to take care of.

So if A-red if A-wulf and Judith's older son, isn't he in line to be King so why was Ecbert schooling Alfred?

[whoknowswho]

58 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

Crazy guys are oddly sexy....

Ain't it the truth?

1 hour ago, ChromaKelly said:

The openness of Alfred being Athelstan's son takes me out of things a bit. It feels too modern.
I hope Torvi isn't dead! I hate if she goes out with Bjorn being a dick to her and basically leaving her and the kids. Bleh.
Ivar is still disturbingly hot. What's wrong with me? I'm still Team Viking, even without Ragnar. Sigurd is growing on me for some reason.
I just can't get into any plots involving Harald and Halfdan. I don't even know who is who most of the time. They are just Ugly Tattoo Brothers Who Hate The Lothbroks to me. I was hoping the princess would kill Harald.
I didn't like Lagertha torturing the bastard earl guy. That was a bit much.

 

I have hated Harald and Halfdan since their smirky, rap-ey faces first came onshore, and they seldom disappoint in being skeevy.   Question--when did he become "King" Harald? I noticed several people addressed him as King Harald.  I know the real Harald Fairhair becomes king of Norway (and his father was Halfdan the Black)--there in't a Norway yet, is there? Where is Kattegat--what country? Is it not Norway? (I'm horribly, terribly Scandinavia challenged--I know Icelandic horses come from Iceland, and it's farther north than I am, and Vikings lived in my province of Newfoundland.) 

I didn't like Lagertha roasting dude either--and I hope at least his wife is spared, she appears innocent.  I think they are trying to set Lagertha up as unappealing the way they did last year with Ragnar and Yidu, and seem to be also doing with Helga--to make their loss less difficult, perhaps?  I miss Ragnar though, the show is rudderless to me... but still I will watch until I get to see Rollo "dance naked on the beach", any beach...  :) 

I don't think Torvi's story is done yet, and I hope Helga's never is, though making her look the crazier between my demented leprechaun buddy Floki, is hard to take. 

[green]

17 hours ago, PreviouslyTV said:

Is Ivar maybe not total garbage? And is even a stupid Viking a better warrior than the guys from Essex? Liane Bonin Starr has questions.

View the full article

Like your review as always but may want to put those guys back in Wessex where they came from.  Loved your line about what would have happened if the attack happened on Aslaug's watch.  That she probably would have gone off and taken a nap.

 

12 hours ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

Armies used to have lots of women come along. Usually called camp followers, they mostly weren't the wives or families though. Don't forget they also have a few shieldmaidens. I don't think all of them stayed behind in Kattegut.

Well put.  Most armies throughout history traveled with the men's wives and/or "girlfriends".  Molly Pitcher of Revolutionary War fame was a camp follower with her husband serving in the army.  It really wasn't until the 1900's when camp followers faded away from the battlefields.

8 hours ago, magdalene said:

I am sad about Helga. I have always liked her and her common sense. Where is that common sense now? Transplanted into Floki...

She is probably next to go since she has had for no reason whatsoever a "crazy" twist added to her personality so as to make her less liked by the viewers.

3 hours ago, whoknowswho said:

She was shot in the shoulder once before too, I think. Or maybe that was Helga...shoot, now I forget!  I think it was in Paris but too lazy to look it up... 

 

It was actually Lagertha during the very last Paris battle on the river in the boats.

2 hours ago, bluvelvet said:

So if A-red if A-wulf and Judith's older son, isn't he in line to be King so why was Ecbert schooling Alfred?

Because Alfred is Athelstan's son.  The one person Ecbert totally loved in his whole life aside from Ragnar and so those emotions got transferred to his son.  He sees his "stock" as superior to Aethelred's (yes another Athel, Aethel) who is Aethelwulf's biological son and is indeed older.  But it is a dangerous world and no one lives all too long in it so Alfred is in the wings right behind his older brother.

2 hours ago, whoknowswho said:

I didn't like Lagertha roasting dude either--and I hope at least his wife is spared, she appears innocent.  I think they are trying to set Lagertha up as unappealing the way they did last year with Ragnar and Yidu, and seem to be also doing with Helga--to make their loss less difficult, perhaps? ...

I agree about Helga like I posted above.  But I didn't think Lagertha was less appealing during her "put some Egil on the barbie" scene.  It was pretty damn mild stuff compared to what Ragnar did to someone else trying to grab Kattegat away as in remember the fate of one Mr Borg.

Edited January 27, 2017 by green

[Kalliste]

@whoknowswho, Harald was King of wherever he's from (King of Vestfold & Rogaland according to this wiki) since he's been in the show. He introduced himself (to Aslaug I think it was?) as King and that one day he'd be the King of all of Norway which apparently included Kattegat if you believe that conversation. He also mentioned in this episode (or maybe the one previous) that Ealswith married an earl even though she told him she couldn't marry him because he didn't have enough power (hence his quest to be the king of Norway), although he was king at the time she said it.

[green]

17 minutes ago, Kalliste said:

Harald was King of wherever he's from (King of Vestfold & Rogaland according to this wiki) since he's been in the show. He introduced himself (to Aslaug I think it was?) as King and that one day he'd be the King of all of Norway which apparently included Kattegat if you believe that conversation. He also mentioned in this episode (or maybe the one previous) that Ealswith married an earl even though she told him she couldn't marry him because he didn't have enough power (hence his quest to be the king of Norway).

Yeah in the first meeting with Aslaug when Harold said he was going to become king of all Norway Aslaug pointed out that he would have to take Kattegat to make that come true.

About Kattegat's location.  I saw a map once when googling early on in the show where Kattegat was shown as a region in the 800's, not a town.  And it ran along the western coasts of modern day Denmark, Sweden and the southern part of Norway.  The Ragnar legend seems to be more set in Denmark (or the Dane Mark in olden times).

But it was clear early on that Hirst had moved this village of Kattegat to Norway in that Swedish earls like the old fat one who was married to Earl Haraldsen's daughter much to Siggy's disgust and Jarl Borg were always referred to from being from there (Sweden) as in another land other than Kattegat.  Also the mountains and fjords were obviously not Danish geography.  And you got to admit it's a far more spectacular coast/area to use scenic-wise.

So you have to take it with a pinch of salt where the fictional town of Kattegat is located in this show.  I say fictional again because the name seemed more applied historical to a whole region back in the 800's.  And besides the modern day countries didn't exist back then anyway.  So Kattegat is located in Future Norway in this show I'd say.

Edited January 27, 2017 by green

[millennium]

23 hours ago, Haleth said:

Since Ragnar's death I am totally Team Saxon now.  This made the episode hard to watch for me.  I hate, hate that stupid Ivar was right and out thought Aethelwulf.  I want to see the English destroy the heathen army and the Ragnarson boys, especially Ivar.  (Yeah, I know the history.)  

 

I wanted Athelwulf to win, too.   I must say, it was damn hospitable of those Saxons to clear all the woodland paths of fallen trees and protruding roots in advance so Ivar the Brat can zip around unimpeded in his go-cart.   

I don't know why I'm still here.  

[nodorothyparker]

13 hours ago, pixieil said:

I just don't understand why Ivar thinks Ragnar chose him. Ragnar asked everybody else first and they all said no. He took Ivar because that was all that was available. I also don't understand why somebody who was there (like the brothers who refused to go with Ragnar ) don't point out that Ragnar didn't choose Ivar. Ragnar got stuck with Ivar.

I think it depends on how you choose to look at it.  From Ivar's perspective the rest of the brothers passed on the chance to spend that one on one time with Ragnar, and especially in Ubbe and Sigurd's cases for some pretty weak reasons that didn't even pan out.  Ragnar singled him out as being special because of the brilliance of his mind and unconventional thinking in the face of constant underestimation.  He specifically told him that he of all the sons was the the most important for the destiny of their people.  So he sees it as Ragnar chose him to carry his final message and instructions and bear witness.  For people who believe very strongly that everything is fated, that's powerful stuff.

On a more personal level the fact that it was Ragnar and not Aslaug, who mostly coddled him, seeing strength in him and telling him this after probably a lifetime of pity and condescension from most people obviously matters a great deal to him.  I would imagine the other sons probably also feel a little guilty in hindsight as well.

Edited January 27, 2017 by nodorothyparker

[Evagirl]

13 hours ago, pixieil said:

I just don't understand why Ivar thinks Ragnar chose him. Ragnar asked everybody else first and they all said no. He took Ivar because that was all that was available. I also don't understand why somebody who was there (like the brothers who refused to go with Ragnar ) don't point out that Ragnar didn't choose Ivar. Ragnar got stuck with Ivar.

I feel the same way you do.  When Ivar and Ragnar were in the great hall, Ivar even told Ragnar "I want you to ask me to go like the asked the others," or something like that.

[ChromaKelly]

Oh I forgot the Crazy Helga storyline. WHY???? Why are they doing this to Helga? She was always the one who kept Floki grounded. I get that she is grieving their daughter, but IDK kids died frequently back then, would she really go insane over it? I'm tired of seeing her pet that poor Moorish girl's hair. Why on earth did Helga 1) come along on the raid, if she's not going to fight, and 2) bring that girl with her? The girl playing her is doing a good job of looking scared shitless, I'll give her that. I thought Floki was going to tell her to run away, you're free now.

[insubordination]

I like Ivar scenes with Flocki and Ragnar, but Ives just looks like a petulant dick when he's having a pissing contest with his brothers.  Still, I guess I wouldn't want to watch if they all got along.  I still remember Ivar/Ragnar massacring their own people. It was chilling, and I know now that there is no place Ivar won't go. He practically orgasmed at some of the violence towards Aelle.

Quote

Ugh.  I don't care about Finehair and his rejection issues.  What was the point of introducing Swedish hat girl and her hubby, only to kill them off by a tertiary character?  Pointless.

Agreed.  Even though the axe to the forehead was sudden and kinda cool in Vikingy way,  I can do without that 'character' development at the expense of that woman.  Her death seemed too Game of Thrones or something for me (as did Daenerys/Lagartha's 'fire' scene).  Can't recall seeing a roasting before though.

H&H certainly have a true bromance happening.   In general, I find sibling relationships to be much more interesting on screen (and in books) than romantic ones.  I wonder if H&H might one day turn on each other a la Ragnar/Rollo. H&H are hammy/scenery chewing annoyances at the moment, so I want something other than rape/fight/murder.  Speaking of sibs, I am surprised Ubbe didn't bring his wife along to keep the family happy.  Then again, I'm worried Ivar might kill her at some point - just 'cos.

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I'm sick of Helga treating that poor girl like a pet rabbit.  I'm ready for Helga to go now, maybe go drown her crazy self in the river so that Floki can take care of the girl.

I found the dynamics in that scene with Flocki and the girl interesting.  I'm sure Helga used to be a favourite of mine. Now I can't even remember why I used to like her and it's only been a few episodes since she started changing for the worse.   Like others, I find it very confusing that Flocks is now the sane(ish) and likeable one.  I'd rather keep him this way.

I agree that the actor who plays 'Aethelwulf' did a fine job in this episode. Since we didn't 'know' anyone else in the army, all the burden of the scenes fell on him, and he pulled it off.

I also found the scene with Alfred a little unrealistic because we'd never seen them interact much before. Just a nice little scene to foreshadow his upcoming death? Not history-spoiled for A-wulf's character, so I guess I'll find out next week.  Don't want the fella to suffer too much, but Ivar does have a bone to pick with him.  Then again, I haven't hated Aethelwulf all along, 'cos the position he's in really sucks. I also liked his thing with Queen K.  However, I haven't forgotten that massacre.

Even though I miss Ragnar (and Rollo), I feel I want to watch the show next season.  Pure escapism and I don't think about something else when I watch it.

Not that I especially want more Judith scenes, but a reaction to her father's (sister's) death might have been warranted.

[SharonH58]

On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2017 at 2:49 AM, green said:

 

Strange that the Moorish girl seems to like Floki better than Helga.  Well maybe not strange in that Helga has gone off the deep end.  The silent look of "help" she gave him when Helga clutched her away from Floki when he returned from finding the girl was telling. 

Floki really had a short but sweet scene with her when he found her too just like Aethelwulf had with Alfred.  Who knew the two most religiously intolerant of the other guy's God/Gods would be the sweet, tolerant  guys in this episode.

I laughed when she looked at him silently pleading for help!   That story is a waste.  I'd rather them kill off Helga than Torvi.    There is a giant hole that Ragnar has left and his 5 sons cannot fill it.  I don't like Ivar.   Find his chariot unbelievable. 

I like Aethelwulf and wish they hadn't killed of Crazy Queen K.  I liked them together and he deserves some happiness..  

I thought Harald and his brother were hysterical!   Comparing notes on how they don't know women.   Of course now that they have a tiny bit of character development they are dead. 

Edited January 27, 2017 by SharonH58
adding stuff

[PatsyandEddie]

I'm wondering if the girl is going to kill Helga so that Floki has to kill her. 

[Evagirl]

17 hours ago, pixieil said:

I just don't understand why Ivar thinks Ragnar chose him. Ragnar asked everybody else first and they all said no. He took Ivar because that was all that was available. I also don't understand why somebody who was there (like the brothers who refused to go with Ragnar ) don't point out that Ragnar didn't choose Ivar. Ragnar got stuck with Ivar.

I feel the same way you do.  When Ivar and Ragnar were in the great hall, Ivar even told Ragnar "I want you to ask me to go like the asked the others," or something like that.

[The Kings Foot]

On 1/26/2017 at 2:12 AM, BitterApple said:

 

I'm also surprised at how many women tag along on these campaigns. It seems like it would be an unnecessary waste of resources and supplies, especially if they're not shield maidens who can fight.

 

Who do you think does the washing and the cooking in medieval armies ?

On 1/26/2017 at 2:30 AM, gwhh said:

The human roaster Lagertha was using. Is it only used for that. Or do they use it for other things?  

Pigs I imagine

[Evagirl]

I wish all the main players who had some kind of relationship with Ragnar would go away and just start from scratch with the sons.  Start developing the characters of the next 3 youngest sons.  We know a lot about Bjorn.  We pretty much watched him grow up from the time he was 12 or 13 years old.  He's turning out to me a not-so-nice man.  We know more about Ivar's life than any of the other 3.  The show without Ragnar has potential, but IMO they've got to let go of the past.  They can keep A-wulf though.  He's growing on me.

[The Kings Foot]

I'd have preferre it if Princess Nice Hat did stab Finehair, then Halfdan shows up kills her then waits till his brother bleeds out before calling for help.

[nowornever]

48 minutes ago, PatsyandEddie said:

I'm wondering if the girl is going to kill Helga so that Floki has to kill her. 

When Tanerus disappeared, I thought that maybe Ivar had taken her.  When they first met back in Kattegat, he reached out to touch her, and she recoiled- that was a weird moment.  I was shocked that she was so calm with Floki, but not surprised that she's terrified of Helga.  

I think that Torvi will live for a while, if only to extend the story with Bjorn and Astrid.  Maybe she'll die of infection, but I don't think they're done with her yet. 

Ditto with Halfdan and Harald. I think they'll have to survive the battles in Wessex now that Lagertha knows what they were planning.  it will be interesting to see what she does with that information.  Will she head out to warn Bjorn, or will he and his brothers discover it on their own?   

I couldn't figure out what those ditches around Kettegat were for.  They'd slow down a horse and wagon, but people could get through them fairly easily, especially if they had nice 2x8 boards to run across.

Bjorn and Ivar taking off to scout the location was a good moment, and Ivar being very useful in battle strategy hammers home what Ragnar said to him. 

Back to Torvi for a second, I like that she's a full-fledged shield maiden now, and there was a little build up to it.  I don't think she could have pulled off that shot on Erlandur if she hadn't had some training.  her luck with men hasn't been good.  First Jarl Borg (and the skull of his dead first wife), then Erlandur, then Bjorn.  I wish they had used that alternate scene where he showed her, and mostly the children, a little bit of affection.  As someone mentioned above, Lagertha's partners have been equally unfortunate. 

[whoknowswho]

10 hours ago, green said:

Yeah in the first meeting with Aslaug when Harold said he was going to become king of all Norway Aslaug pointed out that he would have to take Kattegat to make that come true.

About Kattegat's location.  I saw a map once when googling early on in the show where Kattegat was shown as a region in the 800's, not a town.  And it ran along the western coasts of modern day Denmark, Sweden and the southern part of Norway.  The Ragnar legend seems to be more set in Denmark (or the Dane Mark in olden times).

But it was clear early on that Hirst had moved this village of Kattegat to Norway in that Swedish earls like the old fat one who was married to Earl Haraldsen's daughter much to Siggy's disgust and Jarl Borg were always referred to from being from there (Sweden) as in another land other than Kattegat.  Also the mountains and fjords were obviously not Danish geography.  And you got to admit it's a far more spectacular coast/area to use scenic-wise.

So you have to take it with a pinch of salt where the fictional town of Kattegat is located in this show.  I say fictional again because the name seemed more applied historical to a whole region back in the 800's.  And besides the modern day countries didn't exist back then anyway.  So Kattegat is located in Future Norway in this show I'd say.

Thanks Green, I guess I'd forgotten that, the seasons seem to run together sometimes. I remember Horick as a king of somewhere, so I guess Finehair just gave me amnesia because I despise him SO MUCH, and want him to die of boiling oil or something torturous.  Raped to death by all his previous victims of rape maybe...but he'll get a Viking hammer to the head or run over by a runaway chariot horse, or something banal.  Possibly spit roasted would work. Same with Halfdan, something nice and mean would be good, take Astrid with you when you go, boys. . 

[ghoulina]

On 1/26/2017 at 5:06 PM, magdalene said:

 

I am sad about Helga. I have always liked her and her common sense. Where is that common sense now? Transplanted into Floki...

 

It makes me really sad as well. Helga has long been my favorite female character on the show. I like Lagertha and all, but I tend to go for the underrated characters. And I not only found Helga to be sensible, but she was a really good, loyal woman to Floki. She has truly gone off the deep end and I find it very disappointing.

9 hours ago, nowornever said:

I couldn't figure out what those ditches around Kettegat were for.  They'd slow down a horse and wagon, but people could get through them fairly easily, especially if they had nice 2x8 boards to run across.

I wondered if they weren't done with them yet. Maybe they intended to stick some stakes in them, or something. 

Edited January 27, 2017 by ghoulina

[Captanne]

My absolute favourite Helga moment was when she called Floki a narcissistic asshole (she used the word narcissist -- probably not "asshole" per se but it sure was close.)  Brilliant.  She summed up my sentiments exactly.  Very gratifying.

[millennium]

I don't like that Bjorn's being undermined to elevate Ivar.    Bjorn's first command and Ivar comes up with the winning strategy?   Sorry, that just sucks.   In my eyes, Bjorn is the only true son of Ragnar.  He's the offspring of Ragnar and Lagertha, the real family of this show.    He's been there from the start.   Now this douchey Johnny-crawl-lately seems poised to upstage what has been years in the making.   I don't like it. 

[Stratego]

1 hour ago, millennium said:

I don't like that Bjorn's being undermined to elevate Ivar.    Bjorn's first command and Ivar comes up with the winning strategy?   Sorry, that just sucks.   In my eyes, Bjorn is the only true son of Ragnar.  He's the offspring of Ragnar and Lagertha, the real family of this show.    He's been there from the start.   Now this douchey Johnny-crawl-lately seems poised to upstage what has been years in the making.   I don't like it. 

Bjorn was in command of the expedition to the Mediterranean.

[Kalliste]

9 hours ago, insubordination said:

I also found the scene with Alfred a little unrealistic because we'd never seen them interact much before. Just a nice little scene to foreshadow his upcoming death?

Perhaps recently but Ecbert sent Aethelwulf and Alfred on that pilgrimage back when he was younger. And there's also the time gap where we have no idea what happened between them.

[millennium]

30 minutes ago, Stratego said:

Bjorn was in command of the expedition to the Mediterranean.

I should have said battle command.   What happened in the Mediterranean didn't seem to qualify as a battle.

[raven]

Things I do not care about:

The raper brothers.  Waste of time for me. 

Astrid.  Ugh. 

Kattegut since none of Ragnar's sons are there (sorry Lagertha!  plus last week you looked like you were wearing a bird's nest on your head).  At least Lagertha now knows who the sneaky bastards are that can't be trusted.

Show still feels a bit aimless now that Aelle has been blood eagled - which was a much, much less powerful and impressive scene that the first one with Ragnar.  I can't be on the revenge tour with Aelle dead and gone, sorry sons of Ragnar.  I have to side with Aethelwulf here.

I am most interested in the brotherly dynamics so I was happy that Bjorn showed traits of a good leader by listening to Ivar's plan.  I also liked him more or less laughing at Ivar (with the deer head) when Ivar was acting the bratty younger brother.  I have a feeling that at some point one of Ivar's plans will fail - not this season with one episode left, but next season.  If the brothers are developed and work more or less together, that would be interesting.

I'm also saddened by what the show is doing to Helga.  It's been a while since her daughter died - not that she should be over it, but where is this obsession coming from?  I know she told Floki she wanted to have a baby and he looked shocked so I guess it came from nowhere?  I feel so badly for the girl she is constantly petting, she is so trapped.  It was a nice bit between her and Floki at the river.   I can't see it ending any other way but badly.

Edited January 28, 2017 by raven

[green]

On 1/27/2017 at 10:38 AM, insubordination said:

...

H&H certainly have a true bromance happening.   In general, I find sibling relationships to be much more interesting on screen (and in books) than romantic ones.  I wonder if H&H might one day turn on each other a la Ragnar/Rollo. H&H are hammy/scenery chewing annoyances at the moment, so I want something other than rape/fight/murder.  Speaking of sibs, I am surprised Ubbe didn't bring his wife along to keep the family happy.  Then again, I'm worried Ivar might kill her at some point - j

...

I also found the scene with Alfred a little unrealistic because we'd never seen them interact much before. Just a nice little scene to foreshadow his upcoming death? Not history-spoiled for A-wulf's character, so I guess I'll find out next week.  Don't want the fella to suffer too much, but Ivar does have a bone to pick with him.  Then again, I haven't hated Aethelwulf all along, 'cos the position he's in really sucks. I also liked his thing with Queen K.  However, I haven't forgotten that massacre.

 

Am I looking at the title of the H&H bros new Vikings-style self-help best seller?

Kalliste beat me to it but I concur with that post.  Aethelwulf and Alfred seemed to bond a lot on that pilgrimage and who can forget when the Pope called Alfred up to sit beside him and gave him the fancy sword.  Aethelwulf's reaction to that was a broad, proud smile.  I mean the dude was just beaming towards Alfred.

On 1/27/2017 at 1:40 PM, whoknowswho said:

 I remember Horick as a king of somewhere

He was the major king in the Dane Mark aka Denmark.  We need a chart with graphs and arrows on it to keep these guys all figured out.

18 hours ago, raven said:

...

I am most interested in the brotherly dynamics so I was happy that Bjorn showed traits of a good leader by listening to Ivar's plan.  I also liked him more or less laughing at Ivar (with the deer head) when Ivar was acting the bratty younger brother.  I have a feeling that at some point one of Ivar's plans will fail - not this season with one episode left, but next season.  If the brothers are developed and work more or less together, that would be interesting.

I'm also saddened by what the show is doing to Helga.  It's been a while since her daughter died - not that she should be over it, but where is this obsession coming from?  I know she told Floki she wanted to have a baby and he looked shocked so I guess it came from nowhere?  I feel so badly for the girl she is constantly petting, she is so trapped.  It was a nice bit between her and Floki at the river.   I can't see it ending any other way but badly.

 

Yeah the deer head bit Bjorn did at Ivar was totally a Ragnar-type action.  As for Helga her sudden turn into insanity says exit writing of her character to me.  First make the character a bit less likeable to the viewers (see Ragnar's arc) then kill them off.

Edited January 28, 2017 by green

[spinxella]

Extended scene of Ecbert's farewell to Aethelwulf.

"Know that I love you with all my heart."

[Captanne]

One of our oldest and most beloved cats died last night so bear with me if my post is a bit more unreadable than usual.  I watched the episode after returning from the vet's office.

I liked it fine -- just like the others of 4B.  Obviously the ones leading up to Ragnar's exit were the outstanding ones.  These, leading up to the GHA barreling down on the English are great but I have a feeling the last one will be the outstanding one.  (That said, this show is my absolute favourite and none of the episodes have been clunkers, which really amazes me.  That's more than I could ever reasonably ask for from a television series.)

I am particularly impressed with the attention to historical accuracy (given the need for narrative license because of the venue and medium.)  They strike a terrific balance.

Characters:  Helga, makes me sad.  But we all have our moments of weakness and insanity.  Don't we?  Just me?  Well, then.  

Floki -- is now merely a two dimensional opposite to Helga's irrationality.  But that's okay.  That's all we need.  I did like his stab, "This is what was meant by the piggies" at the Ragnarssons (™, someone else more brilliant than I.)

I continue to like Ivar.

I loved Aethelwulf's devotion to Alfred.  That was a thing of beauty and tells me (and the eavesdropping Judith -- ha, irony given she has one ear flap and that earhole is always blocked by some sort of tortured braid) that we have underestimated Aethelwulf's gentle kindness.  Methinks Ecbert misread his son. And it's sad because it may be too late to rectify that.

I like Alfred but I think we're supposed to.

For the record, I miss Athelstan.

 

ETA:  I want to add that I feel for Aethelwulf on the battlefield.  He is not a great field commander but boy is he earnest.  He's doing the best he can with his righteous anger and his loyal men.  Perhaps, if Ecbert had nurtured him while he was growing up, Aethelwulf would have been what Alfred will become.  Alfred has had the benefit of his grandfather's, the King's, attention and love.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Captanne

[PatsyandEddie]

Captanne, I feel your pain. We had the exact same experience ourselves overnight. You are much more together than I.  HUGS 

[nodorothyparker]

I'm so sorry for both of your losses.  Our oldest cat laid down and died unexpectedly within a matter of hours in September and my son still asks about him almost daily.

[Shermie]

Quote

Why are they doing this to Helga? She was always the one who kept Floki grounded. I get that she is grieving their daughter, but IDK kids died frequently back then, would she really go insane over it? I'm tired of seeing her pet that poor Moorish girl's hair. Why on earth did Helga 1) come along on the raid, if she's not going to fight, and 2) bring that girl with her? The girl playing her is doing a good job of looking scared shitless, I'll give her that. I thought Floki was going to tell her to run away, you're free now.

To be fair, people respond to grief differently, and Helga's only child died. Not that a mother of 10 kids wouldn't grieve for one, but she was all Helga had and then Floki nixed her request for more.

If Torvi dies or has a long recovery, the Moorish girl can go live there and help with those children. Two birds, one stone.

Edited January 28, 2017 by Shermie

[green]

9 hours ago, spinxella said:

Extended scene of Ecbert's farewell to Aethelwulf.

"Know that I love you with all my heart."

Thanks so much for that extended scene.  It changes everything as far as our take on Ecbert.  Without the whole scene above here Ecbert came off as a creep.  Here, whether he meant it or not, it meant the world to Aethelwulf to hear those words.  (Sorry I couldn't quote this without inserting the video again.  Can't find a way to remove that part).

Why did they edit this out of the American version?  Why do we never get the good stuff here and every other country gets to see it?  Just edit out Astrid whenever she pops up on screen and you can still fit your damn commercials in and leave us the good scenes as well.

2 hours ago, Shermie said:

To be fair, people respond to grief differently, and Helga's only child died. Not that a mother of 10 kids wouldn't grieve for one, but she was all Helga had and then Floki nixed her request for more.

If Torvi dies or has a long recovery, the Moorish girl can go live there and help with those children. Two birds, one stone.

Helga lost her daughter a whole decade ago at this point.  Not yesterday.  This is just contrived writing to make the audience start to dislike her.  Like I said above, this is what they did to Ragnar when they started his write-out out of the show.  I assume Helga is next out.

Edited January 28, 2017 by green

[ghoulina]

21 hours ago, millennium said:

I don't like that Bjorn's being undermined to elevate Ivar.    Bjorn's first command and Ivar comes up with the winning strategy?   Sorry, that just sucks.   In my eyes, Bjorn is the only true son of Ragnar.  He's the offspring of Ragnar and Lagertha, the real family of this show.    He's been there from the start.   Now this douchey Johnny-crawl-lately seems poised to upstage what has been years in the making.   I don't like it. 

IMO, a good leader is one who is able to humble himself and admit that someone else might have a good idea. I know there is a lot of rivalry amongst the brothers, but I appreciated the Bjorn was able to put aside his pride and consider Ivar's idea. Ivar is clearly intelligent, and Ragnar saw that in him. Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I personally consider a lot of history when watching the show. So that may color my view of the sons. But they are ALL equally Ragnar's sons, IMO. And I find their sibling interactions to be very interesting. 

[magdalene]

2 hours ago, green said:

Thanks so much for that extended scene.  It changes everything as far as our take on Ecbert.  Without the whole scene above here Ecbert came off as a creep.  Here, whether he meant it or not, it meant the world to Aethelwulf to hear those words.  (Sorry I couldn't quote this without inserting the video again.  Can't find a way to remove that part).

Why did they edit this out of the American version?  Why do we never get the good stuff here and every other country gets to see it?  Just edit out Astrid whenever she pops up on screen and you can still fit your damn commercials in and leave us the good scenes as well.

Helga lost her daughter a whole decade ago at this point.  Not yesterday.  This is just contrived writing to make the audience start to dislike her.  Like I said above, this is what they did to Ragnar when they started his write-out out of the show.  I assume Helga is next out.

They edit every episode heavily for the American broadcast - for example they edited out Bjorns good bye to his children with Torvi which made him look like a callous jerk.  I think the only way you can (legally) see the unedited version is to buy the blue ray dvds or live in Europe.

[Ohwell]

2 hours ago, green said:

Helga lost her daughter a whole decade ago at this point.  Not yesterday.  This is just contrived writing to make the audience start to dislike her.  Like I said above, this is what they did to Ragnar when they started his write-out out of the show.  I assume Helga is next out.

I like Helga and I really liked Ragnar but I want her to be put out of her misery, just like he was.  I don't know if it's grief over her long lost child, but I just hate to see a traumatized girl who's lost her family have to be subject to Helga's madness. 

[millennium]

1 hour ago, ghoulina said:

IMO, a good leader is one who is able to humble himself and admit that someone else might have a good idea. I know there is a lot of rivalry amongst the brothers, but I appreciated the Bjorn was able to put aside his pride and consider Ivar's idea. Ivar is clearly intelligent, and Ragnar saw that in him. Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I personally consider a lot of history when watching the show. So that may color my view of the sons. But they are ALL equally Ragnar's sons, IMO. And I find their sibling interactions to be very interesting. 

I was speaking strictly in the context of the show when I referred to Bjorn as the only true son; according to history, they all came from the same mother, and that mother was Aslaug.  But I no longer consider history when watching.  Hirst has played so fast and loose with history that the connection between history and Vikings is on a par with a Lifetime movie "inspired by actual events."

[Stratego]

1 hour ago, magdalene said:

They edit every episode heavily for the American broadcast - for example they edited out Bjorns good bye to his children with Torvi which made him look like a callous jerk.  I think the only way you can (legally) see the unedited version is to buy the blue ray dvds or live in Europe.

I interpret the scene that Aethelwulf believes he is being lied to--hence how he walked away from King Eckbert and said nothing.

[gwhh]

Aethelwulf is very loyal, very crazy, very smart.  But the problem is each one is equal in him and you never know which one is going to be in the driver seat when you need him most. 

Lagertha really was down with that fire this week!!  She a "hot " shieldmadien for sure  

Edited January 28, 2017 by gwhh

[millennium]

23 minutes ago, gwhh said:

 

Lagertha really was down with that fire this week!!  She a "hot " shieldmadien for sure  

The roastess with the mostest.

[Captanne]

And as we saw that scene in the US, I took it that way, too, stratego. The full length changes the entire meaning. They must feel that in the overall outcome, whatever Aethelwulf thought of Ecbert doesn't matter. In other words, either interpretation would work so they could cut it for time. 

[pixieil]

On 1/26/2017 at 7:55 PM, Ravenya003 said:

Great episode, especially on the heels of last week (though I was willing to cut it some slack since I suspected the budget was being saved for these final two episodes).

I never know what to make of Athelwulf. We've seen him hit his wife and kill terrified children and generally act like a neanderthal, and yet here he's given a lovely scene with Alfred. I've been waiting to get a fix on their relationship, and despite complaining a couple of weeks ago about how he has to raise his wife's bastard, it's obvious he loves him (and is loved back). He even managed kind words for Athelstan, who he hated during his life time. Who'd have thought he had it in him?

And hey, his biological son! A couple of weeks I wondered whether I had just imagined his existence. 

The Kattegut plot didn't interest me much: I wasn't too worried for Lagertha since we've seen Kattegut get overthrown and taken back so many times already, and there weren't many twists in the battle. After throwing down the flaming torch, why didn't one of the men on the other side just shoot her? Or just run through it? It was staged like some remarkable strategy that turned the tide of the battle, but didn't really feel like anything particularly spectacular. And it ends with Lagertha discovering something that the audience has known from the start: the creepy smarmy obviously evil brothers are out to conquer Kattegut. How'd they not see that coming??

I don't dislike Judith, but I did snorfle when Ecbert praised her brilliant mind. Um, okay. Sure. 

I'm holding out hope for Torvi. They wouldn't have bothered to show her blinking if they didn't want to establish she was still alive at the end of the episode, so maybe there's hope.

That subplot with the Finehair brothers was kinda weird and pointless, but mad respect for Princess Nice Hat. Plotting to stab your husband's killer to death while f***ing him? I'm just sorry she didn't get away with it.

Floki is majorly shook that he's become the sane one. And I noticed that his rapport with the little girl was (presumably) a parallel to Athelwulf's scene with Alfred. The two fundamentalists are the gentlest with children (at least these children).

And the brothers are working together to defeat the Saxons, though not without a little bit of tension. We'll see how this evolves, as I feel that Ivar has inherited his father's battle smarts, but Bjorn his leadership qualities. Yet neither has the charisma that made Ragnar so beloved: Ivar is too creepy and Bjorn too stoic.

Great review! I was worried about Lagertha. She's  my favorite character, and since I know Harald Finehair was ultimately king, I was afraid there was a possibility she was going to get killed. I loved E19. I admit to a sneaking fondness for Aethelwulf ever since he showed up in the tower to rescue Queen Kwenthrth and she asked what took him so long.

Lol. Ivar truly gives me the creeps. I also don't get why Helga took Flokis refusal to have more kids as the final word. It's not like he could really stop her. I doubt if they were abstaining from sex. Her adoption of the girl just seemed so out of character and contrived. I am also crossing my fingers for Torvi's recovery.

[Granny58]

If you notice, they tag that they're in Repton Mercia.  That rang a bell, and I just remembered to look it up.  Not too long ago there was a documentary on about the Great Viking Army remains in Repton.  Worth Googling.  

[whoknowswho]

22 hours ago, green said:

Thanks so much for that extended scene.  It changes everything as far as our take on Ecbert.  Without the whole scene above here Ecbert came off as a creep.  Here, whether he meant it or not, it meant the world to Aethelwulf to hear those words.  (Sorry I couldn't quote this without inserting the video again.  Can't find a way to remove that part).

Why did they edit this out of the American version?  Why do we never get the good stuff here and every other country gets to see it?  Just edit out Astrid whenever she pops up on screen and you can still fit your damn commercials in and leave us the good scenes as well.

Helga lost her daughter a whole decade ago at this point.  Not yesterday.  This is just contrived writing to make the audience start to dislike her.  Like I said above, this is what they did to Ragnar when they started his write-out out of the show.  I assume Helga is next out.

I also mentioned that above.  They did the same with Ragnar, the long, slow, torturous decent into an unlikeable character.  Helga and Floki's daughter died a long time ago, I'm assuming she's now in menopause but hell, menopause did not cause me to want to go steal someone's child. (thank God for small mercies!)  So, I see Helga is on her way out.  I also see the same edit with Lagertha--starting with shooting Aslaug whom I hated, in the back. That's kinda skeevy, but they had history, so I hand waved it. However, roasting the bastard guy over a spit, bothered me greatly. Of all the deaths and tortures, this one bothered me.  We don't get to see Lagertha the normal person at all this year--we just see a cold queen who seems virtually emotionless. She never smiles, she never is anything except icy, although I suppose in retrospect she has not smiled much during this series, so it's maybe nothing. I don't expect her to die this season, but I do expect one of the Ragnarrson's will kill her.

I think back at all Ragnar's old friends and countrymen--his gang--and now the only one left is Floki, who I expected to die 1,000,000 times by now!  (And Rollo)

By the same token--I think Aethelwulf's goose is cooked because he has turned from a hateful person into a kinder one.  So, he'll be out too. 

Was my favorite episode this season, but not a flawless one. The chariot on the moors bugs me, because I don't believe it would work.But it makes for exciting TV. 

[emakalam]

Episode 19 Ending Scene

[magdalene]

49 minutes ago, whoknowswho said:

However, roasting the bastard guy over a spit, bothered me greatly. Of all the deaths and tortures, this one bothered me.  We don't get to see Lagertha the normal person at all this year--we just see a cold queen who seems virtually emotionless. She never smiles, she never is anything except icy, although I suppose in retrospect she has not smiled much during this series, so it's maybe nothing. I don't expect her to die this season, but I do expect one o

Yes. I know there are plenty of Vikings viewers who think it's "cool" and "awesome" to see the blood eagling, the human sacrificing, and now the roasting on a spit. I don't think it's cool to see human beings treated that way.  I don't like it any better from Lagertha, Ragnar's sons than I did from the likes of Aelle torturing Ragnar. It bothers me actually more when someone like Lagertha does it because - while it may not seem like it from my posts in these current episode threads - I used to love Lagertha very much in the first two seasons and I still root for her over someone like the icky brothers.  The roasting over a spit was really done, usually by cruel despots in the Orient to their enemies. And now I associate Lagertha with this sadistic practice.

On a history channel programming aside - I notice the History Channel never cuts the sadistic scenes of torture and violence, they only cut "boring" moments that may be important for character perspective and of course they cut the nudity and sex scenes.  I find that so telling.

[tennisgurl]

Ivar is so creepy, but I love watching him. The actor is so engaging, and he actually seems to be a good strategist.

No, not Torvi! She better not really be dead, an off screen battle death is a lame way for a major supporting character to go. She blinked, so she must be ok!

I really don't like what they are doing with Helga. How sad is it that Floki is starting to look like the sane one next to her. Helga has always been one of my favorites, and I don't get why she is losing her mind all of the sudden. I mean, I know she lost her child, and everyone responds differently to grief, but it seems like she lost it with no lead up. Poor little Moorish girl. Maybe she and Floki will end up bonding.

Bjorn has been acting like a moron lately with Astrid The Useless, but he showed some good leadership skills again this week. The plan Ivar came up with seemed out of the box, and you could read that he was trying to take command out from under Bjorn, but he gave the plan a shot because it made sense to try. Good for him.

I am so pissed that they cut that Ecbert and Aethelwulf scene. Just to get in more stupid shitty commercials? So we could see more of a guy getting roasted like a pig? Yeah its not super plot relevant, but its really good character stuff, and without it, Ecbert comes off as a huge asshole. Is there a petition I can sign or something to let us Americans get the whole damn episodes? Speaking of, Aethelwulf had another great episode. Big props to the actor for making him so human and understandable, despite often coming off as cold and distant. Its something this show usually does a good job at, making characters who do unsympathetic things, especially by our modern standards, but still making them interesting and sympathetic.

On the other hand, I still cant stand the dickhead brothers. Yeah, dude, you almost killed your ex girlfriend in the middle of a crowded room, than axe murdered her husband right in front of her, I'm sure she wants you right now! I was rooting for Awesome Hat Princess. I know they're Vikings, but still.  

Edited January 29, 2017 by tennisgurl

[green]

13 hours ago, Granny58 said:

If you notice, they tag that they're in Repton Mercia.  That rang a bell, and I just remembered to look it up.  Not too long ago there was a documentary on about the Great Viking Army remains in Repton.  Worth Googling.  

Yes, it was on Real Vikings, the Hirst produced tie-in documentaries they showed right after Vikings for the first half dozen episodes of this part of the fourth season.

And yes they are in Mercia which, while "annexed" by Ecbert, is still technically north of the old Wessex homeland and Repton is a very long way still from Ecbert's villa etc.  Mercia geographically is pretty large.  A lot larger than Wessex for sure.

About Ivar's chariot.  Yeah you'd think he'd hit a root or old school pot hole and then flip over or something.  But historically we are indeed told Ivar had that chariot.

[Captanne]

Shallow moment:  May I just say that the actor playing Ivar has the most amazing smile?  If he turned the wattage on "full" he could light Manhattan for a week.  My goodness.

[LennieBriscoe]

There really is nothing to like about the Vikings, is there? Handsomeness or cleverness  doesn't excuse their unbridled lust for conquest and violence, does it?

The human roasting spit did it for me. 

Yes, the English troops seem trapped as Custer's men militarily, but maybe Aethulwulf has one great idea left (although Ivar's chess moves re: the ships were genius). 

Edited January 30, 2017 by LennieBriscoe