Ask Me Anything #2 / 2017.01.17

[Wings]

31 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I'm going to be a little critical of this episode. Both "AMA" episodes have started out with Leah answering questions but quickly changed over to guest interviews. I would have liked to have heard more questions and answers from viewers like us. I also thought they sort of glossed over a lot of the answers. For example, I found it interesting what Kevin James' reaction was to any attempt she made to recruit him, but that just raised another question: to what extent was she asked, or expected to recruit Kevin James or any other co-star into Scientology? And by whom? Then they brought up the church's position on homosexuals but didn't utter a peep about all the rumors swirling around both Tom Cruise and John Travolta. I realize they don't want to get sued but it's the big elephant in the room and they could have simply referred to unnamed celebrities who may or may not have joined the church to be "cured." We'd all know who they meant.

Also, it sometimes feels like Mike Rinder is somewhat less remorseful than he ought to be. When Steven Hassan was tearing up and saying how Mike used to scare the hell out him, Mike just sat there stone-faced. I felt he should have been a bit more apologetic.

That said, this was some pretty engrossing stuff.

 

Leah will never out someone or talk negatively about any celeb.   She is there to report the facts not pass judgement.  Her response is always, Scientology is working for them.  She is respectful.

 Next week is about her experience and the pressure she got to recruit Kevin may come up.  I think it is safe to assume she got a lot of pressure!  How much she tried, we don't know.  I think he shut her down with his comment about Tom's glare.  She was very young.   

Rinder does not need to apologize any more.  He has said how horrified he was by his actions and at how and why they happened.  He spoke of his remorse.   Those who have left understand Rinder, they are on the same page.   Ex clams become friends instantly because they get it. 

---------------

As far as Nicole not speaking out.  Actors don't usually say things in public that could effect their box office draw or ability to get hired.  Nicole is reserved in all interviews about everything.  Her silence is loud.   Most know her story and can fill in the blanks.  

Edited January 18, 2017 by wings707

[ALittleShelfish]

2 hours ago, aamankwah said:

I would like to take this time to point out another A&E cult docu-series called Escaping Polygamy. It has two seasons and is about a group of sisters trying to help others escape the polygamous group they grew up in called the "Order" or "The Kingston Clan". Watch it, enjoy it.

One of the networks had Escaping the Prophet (maybe it was A&E after all, I forget; it wasn't renewed because of pressure from the Jeffs family. Or so I'd read.) with Flora Jessop and watching her so boldly help women escape the FLDS, so inspiring. All I've done is convince a friend that she doesn't want to sell body wraps to people for a living.  

I could watch these kinds of shows and read books about them all day long.  But I have a job where I sit and read these forums all day long instead.  

[iMonrey]

Quote

Leah will never out someone or talk negatively about any celeb.

Nor am I suggesting that she should. But let's face it, the rumors about Cruise and Travolta are one of the biggest things associated with Scientology. Since she allowed the question about the church's position on homosexuality the next logical step is to acknowledge that some people may join the church in the hope of being "cured." She doesn't need to name names.

Quote

Rinder does not need to apologize any more.

Whether he "needs" to or not is a judgment call on the part of those he has wronged. My point was that he looked rather stoic in the face of a guest telling him how scared he used to be of him. So he came off as kind of an ass, frankly. 

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

This series is so intense, it's always nice when Leah comes out with some zinger that breaks up some of the sadness.  Her "That's disgusting, Mike" comment when he said he'd seen her Stuff magazine cover was hysterical!  Followed by him giving her a look of adoration that said, "You are crazy and hilarious and I love you for it."

That and when he busted up laughing because her punishment was not being allowed on a float!

I find both of them surprisingly likable. 

Edited January 18, 2017 by TattleTeeny

[Carolina Girl]

9 hours ago, AnnieGirl said:

.....audit the gay out of them.....

Uh huh, good luck with that!

Screen writer Paul Haggis, who had joined Scientology in his 20's, cited one of his reasons for leaving CO$ was their treatment of his lesbian daughters by other members and their official endorsement of Proposition 8 by the San Diego Chapter.  He asked about it and they essentially blew him off.  

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Kevin James Was Never A Target For Recruitment And More Wonders Of Leah Remini: Scientology And The Aftermath's Latest 'Ask Me Anything' Special

We're invited to ask her anything but no one's got questions about her nails?!

[Cherry Cola]

1 hour ago, Ananayel said:

They love to throw around the words "hate crime," but how is sending people dressed in Nazi uniforms to "protest" at the home of a Jewish man not a hate crime? That's the point where Leah broke down, when Mr. Hassan was telling that part, if I'm not mistaken. Just when I think there's no way they can sink any lower, they find a way.

Oh my gosh.  I was a little slow on putting that together! I couldn't figure out what the Nazi uniform had to do with it.  Now I get it, and that's absolutely disgusting that CO$ does this.  

I was applauding them all on this episode. Literally.   I am proud Of Rinder, Leah and all the others for speaking out.  They are incredibly brave. 

I surely hope they do more episodes.  

I am honestly surprised that no one has claimed to be LRH reincarnated. Any one could say they were, I mean seriously! Multiple houses waiting for him to come back?! 

[aamankwah]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I'm going to be a little critical of this episode. Both "AMA" episodes have started out with Leah answering questions but quickly changed over to guest interviews. I would have liked to have heard more questions and answers from viewers like us. I also thought they sort of glossed over a lot of the answers. For example, I found it interesting what Kevin James' reaction was to any attempt she made to recruit him, but that just raised another question: to what extent was she asked, or expected to recruit Kevin James or any other co-star into Scientology? And by whom? Then they brought up the church's position on homosexuals but didn't utter a peep about all the rumors swirling around both Tom Cruise and John Travolta. I realize they don't want to get sued but it's the big elephant in the room and they could have simply referred to unnamed celebrities who may or may not have joined the church to be "cured." We'd all know who they meant.

Also, it sometimes feels like Mike Rinder is somewhat less remorseful than he ought to be. When Steven Hassan was tearing up and saying how Mike used to scare the hell out him, Mike just sat there stone-faced. I felt he should have been a bit more apologetic.

That said, this was some pretty engrossing stuff.

Well she probably needs them for self-defense, in case any Scientologists try to drag her back to the church.

I agree that they should have gone into more depth with the viewer questions and with the Kevin James bit. I believe Mike has probably apologised so much over the years his remorse levels are empty. I understand what you are saying but I don't believe he was being cold or hardened, we really don't know what was going through his head. Maybe nothing, maybe embarrassment, or shock with what Hassan said.

[Maelstrom]

4 hours ago, lordonia said:

Good day, my 1.1 Tone Scale brethren!

Good morning fellow Degraded Being! :D

 

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Both "AMA" episodes have started out with Leah answering questions but quickly changed over to guest interviews. I would have liked to have heard more questions and answers from viewers like us. I also thought they sort of glossed over a lot of the answers.

True, it definitely segued from Q&A to interviews, which was a bit of a bummer, but the interviews were so damn fascinating I can't say I minded. I can't help thinking a proper Q&A ep would be fairly easy (apart from the gut-wrenching mindfuckery of the content, that is) to set up and film to help us cope with the drought between seasons (she says hopefully).

 

42 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Also, it sometimes feels like Mike Rinder is somewhat less remorseful than he ought to be. When Steven Hassan was tearing up and saying how Mike used to scare the hell out him, Mike just sat there stone-faced. I felt he should have been a bit more apologetic.

...

Whether he "needs" to or not is a judgment call on the part of those he has wronged. My point was that he looked rather stoic in the face of a guest telling him how scared he used to be of him. So he came off as kind of an ass, frankly. 

Mike had a tweet last night that I found quite interesting:

Quote

Quote

 

Marzipan Wiley @marzipanwiley

Curious how @MikeRinder feels when someone admits to having been terrified of him :( That's gotta be ROUGH #ScientologyTheAftermath

 

Mike Rinder Verified account ‏@MikeRinder

Its one of the hardest things to deal with. I dont handle it well. @LeahRemini #ScientologyTheAftermath

7:47 PM - 17 Jan 2017

 

I can't imagine how someone in Mike's position, who frankly did a lot of horrible things to a lot of people for a long time, would go about coming to terms and making peace with those past actions, both to the people he wronged, and within himself. How would a person live with that? I can't even imagine, truly. When he comes across stiff or indifferent in interviews sometimes, I figure it's just a defense/coping mechanism of sorts. IMO, Mike's current actions speak volumes about his remorse for his past - speaking out so strongly against the cult, both here with Leah and on his own in the blogosphere, and lending support to former and current victims. He's bringing it where it counts.

That said, I found when Hassan confessed to Mike having been scared shitless of him for so many years was the most emotional moment of a very raw episode.

ETA - crossposted with aamankwah, who put things more succinctly than I did

 

6 hours ago, TaraS1 said:

This series is so intense, it's always nice when Leah comes out with some zinger that breaks up some of the sadness.  Her "That's disgusting, Mike" comment when he said he'd seen her Stuff magazine cover was hysterical!

Definitely agree with this! A little levity is necessary with how twisted and heavy this stuff is. I also liked the breakdown of Elleraich's "medals," including ones from other countries and the future, and when Leah cracked that the Moonies' crazy shit was crazier than CO$'s crazy shit, lol.

Edited January 18, 2017 by Maelstrom

[CatMomma]

18 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Nor am I suggesting that she should. But let's face it, the rumors about Cruise and Travolta are one of the biggest things associated with Scientology. Since she allowed the question about the church's position on homosexuality the next logical step is to acknowledge that some people may join the church in the hope of being "cured." She doesn't need to name names.

 

I just can't agree with this.  This series is about the Scientology organization. Leah made it clear that Scientology believes homosexuality is deviant behavior and that ONLY Scientology can be the cure through auditing.  I see no reason to specifically say that people join to "cure" their homosexuality because that really isn't the point. The point is that the church is harming, even targeting, people who are vulnerable.

[TaraS1]

23 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

Definitely agree with this! A little levity is necessary with how twisted and heavy this stuff is. I also liked the breakdown of Elleraich's "medals," including ones from other countries and the future, and when Leah cracked that the Moonies' crazy shit was crazier than CO$'s crazy shit, lol.

Yes! I knew there was something else she said that cracked me up!  "Your shit was crazier than our shit!"  Brilliant lol.

I also greatly enjoyed her reaction to hearing about sheep-dipping.

[BradandJanet]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I'm going to be a little critical of this episode. Both "AMA" episodes have started out with Leah answering questions but quickly changed over to guest interviews. I would have liked to have heard more questions and answers from viewers like us. I also thought they sort of glossed over a lot of the answers. For example, I found it interesting what Kevin James' reaction was to any attempt she made to recruit him, but that just raised another question: to what extent was she asked, or expected to recruit Kevin James or any other co-star into Scientology? And by whom? Then they brought up the church's position on homosexuals but didn't utter a peep about all the rumors swirling around both Tom Cruise and John Travolta. I realize they don't want to get sued but it's the big elephant in the room and they could have simply referred to unnamed celebrities who may or may not have joined the church to be "cured." We'd all know who they meant.

Also, it sometimes feels like Mike Rinder is somewhat less remorseful than he ought to be. When Steven Hassan was tearing up and saying how Mike used to scare the hell out him, Mike just sat there stone-faced. I felt he should have been a bit more apologetic.

That said, this was some pretty engrossing stuff.

Well she probably needs them for self-defense, in case any Scientologists try to drag her back to the church.

I'm fascinated how well Leah is walking the line between exposing the practices of the cult and avoiding opening herself to charges of libel and slander. I think she's thought very carefully how to protect herself as much as possible.

As for Steve's comment about fearing Mike, I'm old enough to remember rumors of people being killed or disappearing presumably at the hands of the COS. They were one scary "church." Like many 80's cults, they've lost some of their mystique and power now, because of the widespread use of the Internet. Pre-Internet, people dealing with cults had to use pay phones, postoffice mailboxes, and private support groups to get and share information safely. That just added to the stress.

However, google anything negative about Scientology, and the first hit is always a real Scientology website. I can just picture a room of Sea Orgs in their little uniforms working away daily on SEO just to make sure Scientology is always the first hit in a search. 

4 hours ago, wings707 said:

. . . . Cos believes LRH's Navy record was sheep dipped.  They have an answer for everything.  The fake medals would be tricky to defend. . . .

There are groups who believe that Obama's birth certificate is a fake, the president is directly supporting an ISIS takeover, and that in order to stay president for life, he plans (or planned) to gather up white people in FEMA concentration camps in empty Walmart stores--my favorite. Nothing is too far out for some people to believe if they are subjected to the same messages over and over. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

Kevin James Was Never A Target For Recruitment 

That's not what I got out of it. My impression was that Leah was in fact expected to recruit Kevin James, and that she did approach him, but found him pretty solid in his own beliefs. There was some discussion about how she had "failed" because she did not manage to recruit him. Which made me wonder how much celebs like her are pressured by the church to recruit other celebs and bring them into the church. The whole thing just raised more questions.

Quote

Leah made it clear that Scientology believes homosexuality is deviant behavior and that ONLY Scientology can be the cure through auditing.  I see no reason to specifically say that people join to "cure" their homosexuality because that really isn't the point. The point is that the church is harming, even targeting, people who are vulnerable.

You mean . . . like gay people who are trying to change their sexual orientation? Because the way the whole Travolta rumor got started was that a guy in San Francisco was told by the CO$ that they could "cure" him, and he claimed they used Travolta as an example. He later sued the church (after the failure of said cure) and his deposition, which included the reference to Travolta, became public record.

I agree that the emphasis of this season has been on families torn apart by the church but since this was an "ask me anything" episode and the subject came up, they missed an opportunity to address other oft-asked questions about Scientology.

[Wings]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I agree that the emphasis of this season has been on families torn apart by the church but since this was an "ask me anything" episode and the subject came up, they missed an opportunity to address other oft-asked questions about Scientology.

Yes, I was disappointed to see this.  I looked on the reddit site and the questions asked are not ones I would have posted, they were pretty basic.  Somehow I missed that site at a time where I could ask the questions I had.  I hope she will do this again next season so I can participate.  

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

You mean . . . like gay people who are trying to change their sexual orientation? Because the way the whole Travolta rumor got started was that a guy in San Francisco was told by the CO$ that they could "cure" him, and he claimed they used Travolta as an example. He later sued the church (after the failure of said cure) and his deposition, which included the reference to Travolta, became public record.

I missed his suit!  I will google it later when I am not using my phone.   You would think I would have come across this by now!  I have been down the rabbit hole MANY times for hours.  

4 hours ago, BradandJanet said:

I'm fascinated how well Leah is walking the line between exposing the practices of the cult and avoiding opening herself to charges of libel and slander. I think she's thought very carefully how to protect herself as much as possible.

Yes and she is a respectful person who operates with integrity so it isn't all about the law but that is there.  She and Rinder want this endeavor to have legs so they are being careful not to play the same game as COS.  

Edited January 19, 2017 by wings707

[Wings]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

 

Whether he "needs" to or not is a judgment call on the part of those he has wronged. My point was that he looked rather stoic in the face of a guest telling him how scared he used to be of him. So he came off as kind of an ass, frankly. 

He did not look like an ass to me.  The pain under his surface is palpable.  His seemingly stoic pose, we see in each episode, is the way he has found to keep himself pulled together.   In private I would guess there are times when he falls apart.  I have the utmost respect for him. He is doing what he can to make up for what he has done.  Kudos to Rinder.  

These men have talked before they sat down to tape this.  It is logical to think Rinder has expressed his remorse to him personally.  This show is to rally the public to get behind the effort to stop the madness.  Tearful apologies would be out of place here.  Hassan was not addressing Rinder for the first time, he was repeating his story for the public.  Leah had not heard it but Rinder was aware.   

Edited January 18, 2017 by wings707

[Trace]

6 hours ago, wings707 said:

They store food for LRH, too.  Oh good god. Makes me wonder how a 100 year old can of cream of celery soup would hold up.  

A TRUE church would be giving the homeless and starving those cans of food.  The mind - it boggles! A sane mind that is.

[RedheadZombie]

9 hours ago, spiderpig said:

I thought this episode did a great job of clarifying the horrible mistreatment of Sea Org vis a vis the general brainwashing and financial leeching of the average "parishioner".  

Wasn't it telling that Debbie Cooke's case was dropped after one day?  Afraid of those court records, DM?  Supports what Leah has said about suing her and others who blow and talk.  CO$ loves to threaten with legal BS, but they seem scared to death of an actual courtroom.

It finally hit me that Leah was never treated as a celebrity.  They way she was always disciplined and reprimanded, implies to me that they've always treated her as Sea Org.  I doubt other celebrities are grilled about not recruiting their cast mates.  It makes no sense, and they've brought her wrath upon them by their mistreatment of her.  It was that mistreatment that started her search for answers.  Idiots.

8 hours ago, aamankwah said:

Can we please talk about how Anti-Semitic Scientology is as well. How could you stand outside of a Jewish man's house and picket him while dressed in Nazi uniforms? That is so vile and it just shocks me how far they would go to harass someone. Also even though I have a lot of school work and a scholarship to finish I really want to file an IRS complaint against this organisation. They don't deserve the tax exemption! Thank you A&E for this!

I think it was the Nazi thing that made Leah start to cry.  It's what devastated me.  It's evil and there's absolutely no defense. 

[RedheadZombie]

3 hours ago, Carolina Girl said:

Screen writer Paul Haggis, who had joined Scientology in his 20's, cited one of his reasons for leaving CO$ was their treatment of his lesbian daughters by other members and their official endorsement of Proposition 8 by the San Diego Chapter.  He asked about it and they essentially blew him off.  

He stated in Going Clear that he didn't know about their mistreatment until after he left.  They didn't tell him until afterward.

[ketose]

Leah has said she doesn't want to bring down the church, but to make them stop abusing people. That would be fine, but Scientology as a self-help movement sucks ass. Without brainwashing and extortion they'd collapse.

So, Who's more delusional, LRH or DM?

[GreatKazu]

Quote

For example, I found it interesting what Kevin James' reaction was to any attempt she made to recruit him, but that just raised another question: to what extent was she asked, or expected to recruit Kevin James or any other co-star into Scientology?

I didn't hear her say she attempted to recruit him.  She said, and I will re-watch to confirm, is that the "church" expected her to recruit him. Kevin James told her, in his own humorous way (as Leah demonstrated), he was not going to allow her to try to recruit him into Scientology.

[Carolina Girl]

52 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

He stated in Going Clear that he didn't know about their mistreatment until after he left.  They didn't tell him until afterward.

Thanks for the clarification - it's been awhile since I read it, and they didn't mention it in the documentary.

But I hope I have the recollection about Proposition 8 correct.  

[RedheadZombie]

2 hours ago, wings707 said:

He did not look like an ass to me.  The pain under his surface is palpable.  His seemingly stoic pose, we see in each episode, is the way he has found to keep himself pulled together.   In private I would guess there are times when he falls apart.  I have the utmost respect for him. He is doing what he can to make up for what he has done.  Kudos to Rinder.  

These men have talked before they sat down to tape this.  It is logical to think Rinder has expressed his remorse to him personally.  This show is to rally the public to get behind the effort to stop the madness.  Tearful apologies would be out of place here.  Hassan was not addressing Rinder for the first time, he was repeating his story for the public.  Leah had not heard it but Rinder was aware.   

I agree.  This has been a long, painful journey for Leah and Mike.  Personally, I thought that Mike looked near exhaustion and like he'd been crying when they started filming this episode.  Maybe you and I aren't the people to judge whether Mike has profusely apologized to the proper extent to all of his former victims.  But we've seen him filming with many of those he victimized while he was in CO$, and it's very telling that they've clearly moved on.  John Sweeney, who was made to look like a lunatic, is now considered a friend.  That's very telling, and tells me that Rinder has done a great deal of soul searching and apologizing to these people.  He's in close contact with all of the high profile people who've blown, and they seem to be close friends.  Personally, I think he was too moved by the man telling him how frightened he once was to comment on it.  But that's just me.

[GreatKazu]

Quote

These men have talked before they sat down to tape this.  It is logical to think Rinder has expressed his remorse to him personally.  This show is to rally the public to get behind the effort to stop the madness.  Tearful apologies would be out of place here.

Fully agree to your entire post.

I am all for apologies, but there are times when apologies AND action are needed. This is one of those situations.

Edited January 18, 2017 by GreatKazu

[Domestic Assassin]

Quote

It finally hit me that Leah was never treated as a celebrity.  They way she was always disciplined and reprimanded, implies to me that they've always treated her as Sea Org.  I doubt other celebrities are grilled about not recruiting their cast mates.  It makes no sense, and they've brought her wrath upon them by their mistreatment of her.  It was that mistreatment that started her search for answers.  Idiots.

I would bet a year's salary that the Sea Org people would love to be treated the way Leah was treated.  I doubt Leah would compare her treatment to what the Sea Org people go through.

[ketose]

Leah might be unique because she's a Scientologist who became famous. Her mother brought her into it. Many of the celebrities were recruited as minor celebrities or struggling actors taking one of their BS courses. COS knew they could use the laws of Scientology to control her, while other celebrities had to be manipulated more subtly since they had been on the outside as adults.

[Showthyme]

I expected to hear more too from Leah in this episode but these were 3 powerful guests. I would to learn more from them, especially Steve Hassan. Hassan clarified for me why someone would lick the bathroom floor and make apologies for their behavior to the person who assigned the task!

There are so many heroes and many more to be recognized. Lawyers sometimes are portrayed in a bad light. Ray Jeffreys did a wonderful thing when he took on the Baumgarten's case knowing that the COS is a very litigious group.

Can Mike Ridner be named in a lawsuit for assaulting members of COS when he was a part of the organization?  I don't want to call it a church.

Leah seems like she could use a therapist like Steve Hassan. She appears emotional at times, but also seems disconnected. It will take years for her to really grasp what she and others have experienced. Mike Ridner appears to be removed at times.

Anyone who lives in unincorporated Riverside will reference Hemet. Unincorporated Riverside could be anywhere outside of the city limits. Most would say that I live in the outskirts or Riverside or Hemet. Sorry, Hemet.

Wendy Williams had Kirstie Alley on her show today. Her publicist must have told Wendy not to bring up the COS.

Edited January 19, 2017 by Showthyme
.

[Wings]

6 minutes ago, Showthyme said:

Can Mike Ridner be named in a lawsuit for assaulting members of COS when he was a part of the organization?  I don't want to call it a church.

The statue must have run out by now.  Rinder has been out for awhile.   I doubt if anyone would sue.  If you are in you would not dare because you committed a crime and deserved it and if you are out you understand why it happened.  

[Meadow]

3 hours ago, wings707 said:

He did not look like an ass to me.  The pain under his (Rinder's) surface is palpable.  His seemingly stoic pose, we see in each episode, is the way he has found to keep himself pulled together.  

I totally agree with your assessment.  I think Rinder is deeply pained and has probably already apologized to those with whom he is now allied (like John Sweeney and Steve Hassan).  I think it might be helpful for the viewing audience, though, if we heard him say, "I am so very sorry.  I deeply regret how I behaved."

[iMonrey]

Quote

I didn't hear her say she attempted to recruit him.  She said, and I will re-watch to confirm, is that the "church" expected her to recruit him.

Well, that's kind of the point - clearly she tried to talk to him about Scientology because he rebuked said attempts with some crack about a "Tom Cruise glare" or some such. She said she could not pinpoint the weakness or failing she needed to latch onto in order to talk to him about testing or whatever - so obviously, she did make some effort there, and that she felt she had "failed." I just want to know to what extent anyone in the church organization encouraged or urged her to recruit James or any other celeb she knew. 

Like I said, many of the "answers" she gave only raised more questions. The answers felt kind of vague and skimmed over. Then they dropped questions altogether in favor of interviews. I found it frustrating, as an "AMA." As riveting as the interviews were and as compelling as the information in those interviews was, the AMA part was kind of a big fail.

As for Rinder's reaction to Hassan saying how terrified he used to be of him, I freely admit it's open to interpretation, but while I've had no problem with Rinder throughout the seven part series, I found his non-reaction here off-putting. It was an odd edit and not one that put Rinder in a good light. I wanted some kind of reaction - any reaction, not just a cut to Rinder, showing no response. It was just weird.  

[Meadow]

18 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I wanted some kind of reaction - any reaction, not just a cut to Rinder, showing no response. It was just weird.  

I understand what you're saying.  I think that we were about to get a reaction but Leah (God love her) had the "camera worthy" reaction right at that moment instead.  I was frustrated that the camera switched over to her crying and stayed on her getting tissues from her producer and answering his questions about why she was upset.  It ruined a powerful moment where Hassan had more to say to Rinder and Rinder was composing his reaction.  I'm not blaming the producers and cameramen because it's a dynamic situation and they're doing their best.  I just wish that the cameras had stayed on Hassan and Rinder.  That's where the drama was.

[RedheadZombie]

1 hour ago, Moose Andsquirrel said:

I would bet a year's salary that the Sea Org people would love to be treated the way Leah was treated.  I doubt Leah would compare her treatment to what the Sea Org people go through.

Instead of saying they "treated" her as Sea Org, I should have said they looked at her as Sea Org.  They never truly treated her as a celebrity, because they'd already gotten in years of brain washing, and also didn't seem to think she deserved celebrity treatment.   Do we think Travolta, Cruise, or Alley were called in and reprimanded, written up, or forced to retake courses and buy books and tapes?   I don't think they did.  They tolerated Leah, and that's about it.

[ParadoxLost]

28 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Well, that's kind of the point - clearly she tried to talk to him about Scientology because he rebuked said attempts with some crack about a "Tom Cruise glare" or some such. She said she could not pinpoint the weakness or failing she needed to latch onto in order to talk to him about testing or whatever - so obviously, she did make some effort there, and that she felt she had "failed." I just want to know to what extent anyone in the church organization encouraged or urged her to recruit James or any other celeb she knew. 

I thought it was pretty clear that they were saying that Scientology expected all celebrity Scientologists to recruit from their co-stars in return for the perks they received.  I think what wasn't clear was whether it was an "unspoken" expectation that she punished herself for because she was brainwashed into feeling that she was failing to clear the planet.  Or if there were more blatant auditing/crime/punishment type exchanges related to failing to bring in other celebrities.

On the side of demonstrating that Leah wasn't the only one expected to recruit because she was raised in Scientology.

Travolta is known to have recruited....Jeff Conaway, Mikhail Baryshnikov, Patrick Swayze, Forest Whitaker, and Tom Berenger to varying degrees of success.

Edited January 19, 2017 by ParadoxLost

[RedheadZombie]

2 minutes ago, Meadow said:

I understand what you're saying.  I think that we were about to get a reaction but Leah (God love her) had the "camera worthy" reaction right at that moment instead.  I was frustrated that the camera switched over to her crying and stayed on her getting tissues from her producer and answering his questions about why she was upset.  It ruined a powerful moment where Hassan had more to say to Rinder and Rinder was composing his reaction.  I'm not blaming the producers and cameramen because it's a dynamic situation and they're doing their best.  I just wish that the cameras had stayed on Hassan and Rinder.  That's where the drama was.

I think that Leah has also attempted to protect and comfort everyone on this series, and that includes Rinder.  And if she distracted the camera in an attempt to allow him to stay composed, I understand it.

[housewifecrazy]

5 hours ago, aamankwah said:

I agree that they should have gone into more depth with the viewer questions and with the Kevin James bit. I believe Mike has probably apologised so much over the years his remorse levels are empty. I understand what you are saying but I don't believe he was being cold or hardened, we really don't know what was going through his head. Maybe nothing, maybe embarrassment, or shock with what Hassan said.

I think it might be partially embarrassment like you said. If I had done the kinds of things he did and then have to sit with those people, yes I would be sorry, but I would be really embarrassed. He can see now that he is out how horrible it all was and he probably has deep regret for so many things. Plus as others have said, I can imagine he has apologized many, many times over the years.

[Wavy]

Travolta is very close with Oprah, yet he never managed to recruit her.  Wonder if he tried ??!!!

[EVS]

Regarding Rinder's reaction, don't scientologists (I refuse to capitalize the s) do training where they have to sit still and not react when people yell horrible things at them?  I think that is early in their training. We've also heard comments about people being punished or beaten by Miscavige if they reacted the wrong way. I think that, having been in this cult for so long and being as high up as he was, Mike Rinder learned long ago not to let his true feelings and emotions show for his own self-preservation. I think that is a hard habit to break and Rinder is still struggling with it.  He may not be capable of showing us remorse right now, but I don't doubt he feels it for reasons others here have already mentioned. 

Edited January 19, 2017 by EVS

[Cherry Cola]

13 minutes ago, EVS said:

Regarding Rinder's reaction, don't scientologists (I refuse to capitalize the s) do training where they have to sit still and not react when people yell horrible things at them?  I think that is early in their training. We've also heard comments about people being punished or beaten by Miscavige if they reacted the wrong way. I think that, having been in this cult for so long and being as high up as he was, Mike Rinder learned long ago not to let his true feelings and emotions show for his own self-preservation. I think that is a hard habit to break and Rinder is still struggling with it.  He may not be capable of showing us remorse right now, but I don't doubt he feels it for reasons others here have already mentioned. 

Yes.  They have to get rid of their reactive mind.  That could explain Rinder's blank expression in those moments.  Man, they have been through some shit. 

[Almost 3000]

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Also, it sometimes feels like Mike Rinder is somewhat less remorseful than he ought to be. When Steven Hassan was tearing up and saying how Mike used to scare the hell out him, Mike just sat there stone-faced. I felt he should have been a bit more apologetic.

I'm starting to appreciate his stillness because it allows others to tell their story without it becoming about him. But I do get what your saying because I originally felt the same way.

[Almost 3000]

6 hours ago, Sgt Pepper said:

Oh my gosh.  I was a little slow on putting that together! I couldn't figure out what the Nazi uniform had to do with it.  Now I get it, and that's absolutely disgusting that CO$ does this.  

I was applauding them all on this episode. Literally.   I am proud Of Rinder, Leah and all the others for speaking out.  They are incredibly brave. 

I surely hope they do more episodes.  

I am honestly surprised that no one has claimed to be LRH reincarnated. Any one could say they were, I mean seriously! Multiple houses waiting for him to come back?! 

I tried to like your comment SGT PEPPER (SP) but it said I wasn't allowed to "like" this user so I figured it was because you are a suppressive person.

[Showthyme]

4 hours ago, Trace said:

A TRUE church would be giving the homeless and starving those cans of food.  The mind - it boggles! A sane mind that is.

Wrong quote. Not going to fix because we all know that craziness to which I am referring.

Isn't LRH supposed to drop himself back into a baby's body? Babies don't need Kool cigarettes and they certainly don't need to have them in two different rooms. 

I wonder if David Miscavige really believes all of this crap. 

Edited January 19, 2017 by Showthyme
wrong quote

[Giselle]

6 minutes ago, Almost 3000 said:

I'm starting to appreciate his stillness because it allows others to tell their story without it becoming about him. But I do get what your saying because I originally felt the same way.

I don't mind Rinder's stillness either. it keeps the focus on the person speaking. There has been a time or two where I've felt Leah spoke over another person who was telling their story and inadvertently changed the conversation.

I know they have probably been bombarded with questions of what else are they doing to go after cos but I wish they hadn't shown them going to a law firm. Don't give them a heads up.

 Hope there is a second season.

[Almost 3000]

54 minutes ago, Wavy said:

Travolta is very close with Oprah, yet he never managed to recruit her.  Wonder if he tried ??!!!

The Oprah seemingly real friendships to John, Tom and Kristie always interested me because you'd think she wouldn't want to be connected to Co$. Oprah put an amazing new kitchen into Kristie's mansion that always got a Scooby head tilt from me.

[toodles]

10 hours ago, aamankwah said:

I would like to take this time to point out another A&E cult docu-series called Escaping Polygamy. It has two seasons and is about a group of sisters trying to help others escape the polygamous group they grew up in called the "Order" or "The Kingston Clan". Watch it, enjoy it.

I like this too.  Equally horrific and so sad.  Kudos to a & e for taking the chance on both of these shows.

[Cherry Cola]

12 minutes ago, Almost 3000 said:

I tried to like your comment SGT PEPPER (SP) but it said I wasn't allowed to "like" this user so I figured it was because you are a suppressive person.

Thanks for the laugh!   I probably am!

[Maelstrom]

12 minutes ago, Giselle said:

I wish they hadn't shown them going to a law firm. Don't give them a heads up.

I feel confident in saying DM and co. already knew. The way this cult surveills and stalks people, I have no doubt they know every step Leah takes. Which makes her courage in doing this even more impressive.

[Sup wit dat]

14 hours ago, spiderpig said:

I thought this episode did a great job of clarifying the horrible mistreatment of Sea Org vis a vis the general brainwashing and financial leeching of the average "parishioner".  

Wasn't it telling that Debbie Cooke's case was dropped after one day?  Afraid of those court records, DM?  Supports what Leah has said about suing her and others who blow and talk.  CO$ loves to threaten with legal BS, but they seem scared to death of an actual courtroom.

Yes, but that's their MO.

The thing is, she was kicking their ass in court so I find it incredible that she agreed to a gag order.

Scientology is so good at silencing people it's unbelievable.  Leah mentioned in this episode that they are working on things they can't talk about.  If that's the case, I hope Miscavige doesn't find a way to silence her, too, because every case seems to end in a settlement with the victims silenced.

I often wonder how much they paid that pilot to stop spilling about his six year relationship with John Travolta.

[ketose]

1 hour ago, RedheadZombie said:

Instead of saying they "treated" her as Sea Org, I should have said they looked at her as Sea Org.  They never truly treated her as a celebrity, because they'd already gotten in years of brain washing, and also didn't seem to think she deserved celebrity treatment.   Do we think Travolta, Cruise, or Alley were called in and reprimanded, written up, or forced to retake courses and buy books and tapes?   I don't think they did.  They tolerated Leah, and that's about it.

They absolutely have to retake courses. Celebrities give them PR, but they are also prized by CO$ for their money. They can't let Tom Cruise reach OT VIII. How would they explain that he really can't fly if they let him get all the way up the bridge?

[B3cky50]

20 hours ago, green said:

And really?  Empty houses filled with Kool cigs and that picture of the giant double o part of the Kool logo taken from a drone or something?  So Hubbard can see the Kool label from some cloud or something when he descends to earth and knows where to go to get his nicotine fix?  You just can't make up stuff like this.

Add in the US Navy conspiracy to hide his real identity when he was apparently a naval version of 007 and I just don't know how it is possible for anyone to swallow any of this crap ever.  I know brainwashing is real but come on.  Would these people believe the moon was made of Swiss cheese if it was in one of Hubbard's books?  Sadly, probably.

So this brought up an interesting question for me. I always firmly believed that Miscavige knew that what he was selling was BS, and didn't believe a word of the nonsense, the Xenu/volcano/LRH fiction, etc... 

But these empty mansions of cigarettes and slippers and canned goods.... Do you think Miscavige actually does believe the nonsense? I mean, regardless, he's an evil, abusive, manipulative tyrant of course. But does he buy this gobbledygook? 

[pinguina]

I was wondering about the questions that would be asked of Leah and Mike.  

However, I found the guests that they had on fascinating.  What was shown about the cult leader's "war record" was amazing.  So he went into the future and did something to deserve a medal (then returned to his WWII time?) plus apparently did something so courageous that two countries (who do not give medals to foreigners) gave him medals.  Plus the ability to cure himself of pink eye (my second graders can do this - are they OTVIII?) - wow! What powers he has!!  I personally find him kind of disgusting - some of the pictures that are shown of him are - to put it mildly - off putting.  

Steve Hassen (spelling??) story had me glued! Checklisting the components of indoctrination was kind of eyeopening to me.  Count me in with being left open mouthed by how low the cult would go - sending people dressed as Nazis??  Man, they have no basic decency.  

[Wings]

22 minutes ago, B3cky50 said:

So this brought up an interesting question for me. I always firmly believed that Miscavige knew that what he was selling was BS, and didn't believe a word of the nonsense, the Xenu/volcano/LRH fiction, etc... 

But these empty mansions of cigarettes and slippers and canned goods.... Do you think Miscavige actually does believe the nonsense? I mean, regardless, he's an evil, abusive, manipulative tyrant of course. But does he buy this gobbledygook? 

My hunch is that he doesn't believe most if anything.  He is in it for the power, money and maybe most of all the glory.