S01.E12: The Big Day

[chocolatine]

Could it be that William and Randall's biological mother stopped using during the pregnancy, and William started using again when he brought Randall home because he was overwhelmed with grief and the prospect of raising the child by himself? Then, when he was high, he decided the best option would be to leave Randall at the fire station? I'd like to think that they at least made an effort to get clean when they found out they were having a baby.

[OtterMommy]

On 1/20/2017 at 4:42 PM, ClareWalks said:

The circumstances around Randall's birth, I am very curious about. So if his mother died in childbirth, did she give birth in a hospital? Or in some alleyway somewhere? Either way, I assume the baby then found itself in William's care (either officially as the birth father, or by default because the mom is dead). But if she just died on the street or in their apartment after giving birth, the story becomes a LOT darker and makes William look pretty awful. Because you know that if he'd called a coroner or ambulance that they would have known she had given birth before she died, and wouldn't they have been all "where's the baby? Why didn't you go to the hospital?" The whole thing is just odd to me. Maybe they'll have an episode about it, but so far William's just like "I don't even remember what happened," which means he was basically high at the time.

I've been wondering the exact same thing.  I mean, it wasn't like the biomom disappeared into thin air and a medical examiner could easily tell (I believe) that she had given birth, which would lead the authorities to wonder what happened to the baby. 

Maybe this isn't a big deal, but this is one of those little plot holes that is bugging me more than it should.

On 1/20/2017 at 8:09 PM, chocolatine said:

Could it be that William and Randall's biological mother stopped using during the pregnancy, and William started using again when he brought Randall home because he was overwhelmed with grief and the prospect of raising the child by himself? Then, when he was high, he decided the best option would be to leave Randall at the fire station? I'd like to think that they at least made an effort to get clean when they found out they were having a baby.

I would like to think that too, but addiction is pretty darn strong.  The people I've known who were dealing with an addiction (usually nicotine, but sometimes alcohol) were, unfortunately, unable to stop when they were pregnant.  It's very sad...

But, that makes me think that what Randall believes about his birth mother, that she was a drug addict, may not be true.  I know that there was a huge discussion about the likelihood that Randall would be born addicted and such.  But, let's say that the stars aligned that the bio-mom was using and Randall was not born addicted.  He probably would still not have been born especially healthy.  Even if the drugs didn't get to his system. his bio-mom was probably not taking care of herself.  The baby we saw looked incredibly healthy.  He also looked to be about 3 months old....

[chocolatine]

10 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

I would like to think that too, but addiction is pretty darn strong.  The people I've known who were dealing with an addiction (usually nicotine, but sometimes alcohol) were, unfortunately, unable to stop when they were pregnant.  It's very sad...

But, that makes me think that what Randall believes about his birth mother, that she was a drug addict, may not be true.  I know that there was a huge discussion about the likelihood that Randall would be born addicted and such.  But, let's say that the stars aligned that the bio-mom was using and Randall was not born addicted.  He probably would still not have been born especially healthy.  Even if the drugs didn't get to his system. his bio-mom was probably not taking care of herself.  The baby we saw looked incredibly healthy.  He also looked to be about 3 months old....

IIRC, they were both high in William's flashbacks, but that was before she was visibly pregnant. I know that addiction is very strong, but some addicts manage to stay clean for long stretches of time before something happens that leads to a relapse. Maybe the mother did try and mostly stayed clean during pregnancy, which is why Randall didn't have any "crack baby" symptoms. 

[kili]

Quote

Could it be that William and Randall's biological mother stopped using during the pregnancy, and William started using again when he brought Randall home because he was overwhelmed with grief and the prospect of raising the child by himself?

Maybe his report card isn't so far off (if we ignore the year). Perhaps he was born a few weeks before the twins and William spiralled back into drug addiction after his wife died during the birth. Randall would have been a few weeks old when he was delivered to the fire station after William realized he was an unfit parent.

Eventually the authorities matched Randall with his birth records and figured out that his Mom was dead (and extinguished William's parental rights). 

In order for Randall not to feel too different from his same-aged siblings, they celebrate his birthday the same day as the twins? It is the day he was metaphorically born into the family.

[chocolatine]

3 minutes ago, kili said:

Maybe his report card isn't so far off (if we ignore the year). Perhaps he was born a few weeks before the twins and William spiralled back into drug addiction after his wife died during the birth. Randall would have been a few weeks old when he was delivered to the fire station after William realized he was an unfit parent.

Eventually the authorities matched Randall with his birth records and figured out that his Mom was dead (and extinguished William's parental rights). 

In order for Randall not to feel too different from his same-aged siblings, they celebrate his birthday the same day as the twins? It is the day he was metaphorically born into the family.

That's a really interesting theory, but would he still have been put in the hospital nursery if he was two months old? I thought the nursery is for newborns only, but I'm not 100% certain. My theory was more along the lines that William relapsed the day he took Randall home, and made the decision to give him up on the same day or the next day.

[kieyra]

The pregnancy conversion is interesting because I'm watching the middle seasons of Gilmore Girls right now, and many women on that show become seemingly psychotic both when pregnant and in labor. (Sookie multiple times, and Sheri.) To the point that when one character is being paranoid and mean and bitchy, the episode culminates in the realization that it all must mean she's pregnant. 

[Guest]

I think one reason they're not going to give a lot of details of the birth is they probably are not going to suggest Randall was literally a crack baby, with defects from it.  I don't think they want to suggest their lovely, gifted specimen is physically or mentally damaged, or ever was.  It would make William more a villain and Rebecca more a hero.  I think they like William being saintly and Rebecca pretty morally gray.   

[sasha206]

Did Rebecca and Jack come home with 3 babies?  Or was there some lag time.  Because if not, how were they able to adopt an infant?  Or does the show want us all to suspend belief that you just walk out with a kid without going through any type of social worker screen?

[Guest]

Yes, I think it does.  You know, back in the days when a fireman takes an abandoned baby to a hospital and the doctors put it in the nursery for the first taker they approve to walk out with.  

[kili]

Quote

Or does the show want us all to suspend belief that you just walk out with a kid without going through any type of social worker screen?

Naturally. What social worker would approve adoptive parents who live in a house that is still under major renovations and live out of boxes?

[Court]

Adoption rules/laws were not as strict in 1980 as they are today. PA is still one one of the least restrictive states in regards to adoption.

I doubt renovations would have prevented the Pearsons from adopting Randall.

While there is some handwaving done surrounding it, I don't think a ton is required.

[CofCinci]

7 hours ago, Court said:

Adoption rules/laws were not as strict in 1980 as they are today. PA is still one one of the least restrictive states in regards to adoption.

I doubt renovations would have prevented the Pearsons from adopting Randall.

While there is some handwaving done surrounding it, I don't think a ton is required.

Also, keep in mind that Randall was an African-American baby.  He didn't have the same social value  as a white infant, sadly. 

[ShadowFacts]

9 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I think one reason they're not going to give a lot of details of the birth is they probably are not going to suggest Randall was literally a crack baby, with defects from it.  I don't think they want to suggest their lovely, gifted specimen is physically or mentally damaged, or ever was.  It would make William more a villain and Rebecca more a hero.  I think they like William being saintly and Rebecca pretty morally gray.   

Back when the first episode aired I read about crack babies, and it turns out that it was overblown as to the effects of prenatal exposure.  The worst case scenarios have been proven wrong.  Any deficits are not long-lasting.   And as I mentioned, it all depends on how much, how often, and how recently the mother used.  We don't know any of that.  That part of the story so far doesn't tingle my spidey senses, it's what happened to the mom afterwards that I wonder about.  How that death was reported, what investigation was done, etc.  I want to think William is telling all he knows to Randall, but who knows.  I don't know if they will or will not gloss over it, remains to be seen, but it is as least as important as the fireman's wife, so I would think it will come up in the future.  They're going to need some meat to their flashbacks in the next two seasons.  Dr. K is kind of wrapped up, unless Rebecca gets pregnant again. 

[Randomosity]

Regarding the age that the baby actor was and the age that infant Randall was when he was dropped off...

Sure, the actor baby looked "older" and quite healthy for having been in the care/uterus of (possible?) active drug users. But how are they supposed to do it much more realistically without CGI? What doctor and/or parent is going to volunteer their unhealthy (or at least not-healthy-looking), 2-day old to film a TV show? Would the industry even allow such a thing? Unless the baby is obviously an 11-month old near-toddler portraying a newborn, I usually give a pass to shows/movies, because I would think they probably CAN'T use a baby as young as they're meant to be showing.

I do think, regardless of the actor baby's age, that Randall was meant to be a true newborn. Didn't the firefighter's wife push the firefighter more urgently to get rid of the kid and bring it to a hospital once she got a good look and realized how young/small he looked? I may be remembering wrong, but wasn't she on the couch away from firefighter/Randall and then once she stood up and got close enough to see the baby, she said "That's a NEWBORN, you have to get him to a hospital" or something to that effect?

Of course, that then leaves the other question of birth location/birth mother's fate still open...

[talktoomuch]

1 hour ago, CofCinci said:

Also, keep in mind that Randall was an African-American baby.  He didn't have the same social value  as a white infant, sadly. 

Yet in our show we have not one but TWO white Dads considering adopting a black baby!

[SlackerInc]

44 minutes ago, Randomosity said:

Regarding the age that the baby actor was and the age that infant Randall was when he was dropped off...

Sure, the actor baby looked "older" and quite healthy for having been in the care/uterus of (possible?) active drug users. But how are they supposed to do it much more realistically without CGI?

He was definitely intended (in the script) to be a newborn.  And I agree that they can't use actual newborns on TV shows.  But there is a fair deal of variety in terms of how old the babies are that they use to portray newborns--and that baby was on the way upper end of the age range that I've seen.  (Maybe when looking for African American babies, they have fewer options?)

[talktoomuch]

I'm sick of the answer that eventually we'll get to see more layers to Jack that make him less perfect. We sure haven't wasted any time getting to Rebecca's layers. But here we are 12 eps in and are still constantly reminded that Jack is perfect.

At this point any flaws they show us in Jack will be amply minimized by his perfection. It's like when a person waits until you're totally in love with them to reveal a major secret or flaw. They know you now will weigh it against all the love you gave for them. Though had they told you in the beginning, you would have judged the reveal on its own merits.

I'd just prefer to judge Jack on his own merits. Not in the lens of "but he's so perfect otherwise" that the show insists on as its singular focus.

[Guest]

Yeah, I'm surprised when I see the speculation that they're building Jack up to knock him off his pedestal, then kill him, presumably?  I think they're building him up to kill him as a saint.  That would lay the groundwork for present day stories like how Miguel will never measure up, Toby will never measure up, etc.  And we already know the adult kids revere him.  

[Clanstarling]

15 minutes ago, talktoomuch said:

I'm sick of the answer that eventually we'll get to see more layers to Jack that make him less perfect. We sure haven't wasted any time getting to Rebecca's layers. But here we are 12 eps in and are still constantly reminded that Jack is perfect.

At this point any flaws they show us in Jack will be amply minimized by his perfection. It's like when a person waits until you're totally in love with them to reveal a major secret or flaw. They know you now will weigh it against all the love you gave for them. Though had they told you in the beginning, you would have judged the reveal on its own merits.

I'd just prefer to judge Jack on his own merits. Not in the lens of "but he's so perfect otherwise" that the show insists on as its singular focus.

I can understand your preference, but I have a slightly different perspective.

For me, I kind of like that the relationship we are having with him as viewers mirrors the way real relationships occur. There's the honeymoon, "he's perfect" phase where in your eyes he does nothing wrong, then there are the little hints that there might be, but we dismiss - such as his grand gestures, pressuring Rebecca to have kids, possibly pressuring her to adopt Randall, the hints about drinking issues and a very slight hint about possible cheating. But then when the big flaws arrive, you do view everything through a different lens - which is how we flawed humans manage to have long term partners - we weigh the importance of the flaw against the love. Some things you can accept, some things are deal breakers.

So I'm okay with it, though I agree it's time to give his flaws a little more screen time. Perfection is boring - even when it does have a nice bottom.

[ClareWalks]

1 hour ago, talktoomuch said:

Yet in our show we have not one but TWO white Dads considering adopting a black baby!

Randall had charisma, even then!

[talktoomuch]

I completely appreciate your perspective @Clanstarling. My problem is that Jack seems to be the only character getting the slow-reveal treatment.

Edited January 21, 2017 by talktoomuch
Pretty sure "teetment" is not a word.

[PRgal]

Regarding actor babies:  I guess it's more difficult when you aren't a show about childbirth, but I've read that still-pregnant moms "audition" on behalf of their kids for Call the Midwife!!!!  The newborns on that show are usually a few weeks old. 

[Clanstarling]

16 minutes ago, talktoomuch said:

I completely appreciate your perspective @Clanstarling. My problem is that Jack seems to be the only character getting the slow-reveal treatment.

I agree that he's having the slowest reveal of the characters with a lot of screen time (in terms of flaws). Randall may be right up there with him, though his story is pretty compelling, and Beth's presence is strong and positive, so it doesn't feel as lopsided. 

Though it's not definitively shot that way, it seems to me the flashbacks of Jack and Rebecca are almost being filtered through the perspective of the kids (perhaps from their takes on the family stories). In this case, possibly predominantly Randall's. Maybe the upcoming seasons, and reveals, will shift to Kate or Kevin's.

[HeyThere83]

1 hour ago, talktoomuch said:

I'm sick of the answer that eventually we'll get to see more layers to Jack that make him less perfect. We sure haven't wasted any time getting to Rebecca's layers. But here we are 12 eps in and are still constantly reminded that Jack is perfect.

At this point any flaws they show us in Jack will be amply minimized by his perfection. It's like when a person waits until you're totally in love with them to reveal a major secret or flaw. They know you now will weigh it against all the love you gave for them. Though had they told you in the beginning, you would have judged the reveal on its own merits.

I'd just prefer to judge Jack on his own merits. Not in the lens of "but he's so perfect otherwise" that the show insists on as its singular focus.

Exactly. Same with Miguel. I rolled my eyes at Dan Fogelman (as I often do reading his interviews about this show) when he said we will get to know about Miguel. Oh really....when, exactly? They know exactly what they are doing. 

[ChromaKelly]

6 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Back when the first episode aired I read about crack babies, and it turns out that it was overblown as to the effects of prenatal exposure.  The worst case scenarios have been proven wrong.  Any deficits are not long-lasting.   And as I mentioned, it all depends on how much, how often, and how recently the mother used.  We don't know any of that.  That part of the story so far doesn't tingle my spidey senses, it's what happened to the mom afterwards that I wonder about.  How that death was reported, what investigation was done, etc.  I want to think William is telling all he knows to Randall, but who knows.  I don't know if they will or will not gloss over it, remains to be seen, but it is as least as important as the fireman's wife, so I would think it will come up in the future.  They're going to need some meat to their flashbacks in the next two seasons.  Dr. K is kind of wrapped up, unless Rebecca gets pregnant again. 

Yes, it's true that the long-term effects are not as bad as once thought, but a newborn is still going to have issues with withdrawal. He would at least need some NICU time.
I am with you and others regarding Randall's birth mother and having to really do some handwaving if it's never explained. A dead body would be found with signs of recent childbirth. Police would be searching for a newborn baby. Randall being abandoned, I'm assuming somewhat close to where the body would be discovered, would be suspected to be the child. Even though DNA testing wasn't a thing yet, they could at least check blood types and determine if the baby was related to the mother, right? Then they would try to identify her and family might be found.
This is 1980, not the stone age. There was still a foster care system and background checks and home inspections. I can roll with ok, the Pearsons were given a foster license quickly and were able to take him home. Someone upthread mentioned the state of the house and that is a really good point. Also, yes, people were not as willing to adopt black babies, but there were still foster homes ready to take in children. It's such a leap that they took him home from the hospital. Applying to be a foster family and then taking custody once they are approved? Sure, I can buy that. I just can't see them giving a newborn to a family with newborn twins and mourning their third baby.

[Drumpf1737]

It's kind of funny that there's been so much detective work around adoption law and whether the timeline in the show properly relates everything that was happening at the time; yet no one seems to have appreciated the flashback episode. 

I actually wondered after watching the first episode whether the fireman considered taking Baby Randall home.

I appreciated the fleshing out of secondary characters especially Dr. K. It's always good to see Susan Blakely.

I like how the story is unfolding and I don't need to know right this second what's going to happen next. I think it speaks to why Netflix streaming is so successful when you see the depth and volume of questions about the show.

[ChromaKelly]

22 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I guess it varies, but I find taking things out of boxes and setting them on shelves  to be very mild exertion compared to pounding the pavement in ill fitting shoes all the way to the liquor store and back.  I guess it's just an ongoing sore point with me, the number of stay-at home women who think it's a fair division of labor for her to stay home while he goes to work and then expect him to help with housework when he gets home.  Rebecca seems to think Jack should do everything.

Well, he is the one who bought an unfinished house. So yeah, he can do most of the work. I'm kind of on Rebecca's side here. I have twins and I was about to die towards the end. I was sleeping on the couch, it was hard to get up the stairs.
But I also agree with all of you who are eye-rolling at the bitchy pregnant woman trope.

[NutMeg]

Late to the party, because I wanted to go through all that's been said (TBH I skimmed), and because I have a life (TBH my birthday was between airing and now). So, based on what's already been said, and a lot of it wise and much plus-1ed, I'll focus on what haven't said - BTW I'm one of those who liked the episode but felt underwhelmed by it - first time I felt the cheese that many smelt much earlier.

Miguel and friends: would make Don Draper proud. They look like Neanderthal to me with their "take any time you can to escape from kids", but it's still a relatively popular opinion nowadays, if less blatantly. I've always founded it both sad and frustrating how men - more often than women - do not seem to get it that their kids change so fast that if you don't make time for them when they want you to, by the time you'll want to make time for them they may have moved on. And even if you're lucky enough that they still want your company, you'll have missed huge parts of them, what made them what they are now, what have moved them in the past and what is important to them now, etc.

Also, when has anyone been made to buy golf clubs and ugly trousers before even trying their hand at golf? I found Miguel's insistence that Jack buy all these high priced items very obnoxious, knowing what he knows of his life. Felt like if Jack had a little angel on one shoulder and a little devil on the other, Miguel would have been the little devil, whispering "Jack, your woman in mean to you, Jack, she expects you to do as she says, Jack, you have a right to do something she wouldn't approve of, Jack, spend some of your money on something just for "you" that she wouldn't approve of" and then it verges to Miguel saying "do what I did because my marriage and family is so fucked up that I couldn't bear it if yours was in any way better", "please ruin this great relation you have with Rebecca so that we can be equal once more".

Yes, I'm projecting with the last two lines, or rather dramatising and putting words to what I felt was the underlying meaning.

Also: I am totally sure Dr. K was thinking of offing himself. His wife's medicine vials had "morphine"!!! on the label. And the reasons he didn't was because he felt needed/useful after what he found that what he said to that guy deliver just when he was about to confess to his dead wife/himself that with his life so empty he was done with it and was going end it .

Wedding band: why would a widower stop wearing it? That felt weird that it was thought of as abnormal.

Dating again? anyone  I know with a parent over 60 was shocked, really shocked, when the parent started dated again. May be just my sample.   

[Emily Thrace]

18 hours ago, Kira53 said:

That might have been misinformation from the PI.  Randall didn't not behave like a crack baby and I though about that in the pilot.  I hope that William is consulted about the mother in greater depth.  This was alway a mystery to me.  A good possibility is that she will be revealed to still be alive.  If she died giving birth in the apartment, how would William be able to take the baby to the firehouse at the same time that he would have to be reporting a death.  Maybe she didn't want the baby but had stopped using in the last trimester ......?  Reporting a dead woman who had obviously had give birth would be complicated.  The authorities would want to know where the baby was.  Looking forward to this reveal.  It would be great if after William's death Randall's mother was found and she wasn't so good.

William and Randall's mother were using heroin not crack though. Heroin and most opioids don't tend to cross through the placenta very well. That's partly why its used in epidurals. As long as his mother cut down a fair bit its entirely possible Randall didn't have any ill effects.

[NutMeg]

Isn't heroin super expensive? I still don't understand the difference between heroin, cocaine, crack, cocaine crack, heroine crack... 

[kili]

Quote

I still don't understand the difference between heroin, cocaine, crack, cocaine crack, heroine crack...

Heroin is an opiate derived from poppies originating Asia. Cocaine is a stimulant derived from the leaves of the coca plant originating in South America. Heroin can be inhaled, injected, eaten, smoked, whatever. Cocaine is mostly inhaled and is sold as a powder. Crack cocaine looks like a jagged rock and is just a form of cocaine that is mostly smoked. Crack is just crack cocaine for short. Heroin crack is a blend of cocaine and heroin. Heroin is a depressant that may kill you because it can cause you to stop breathing. Cocaine is a stimulant that may kill you by causing a heart attack. There is an antidote for heroin. There is not one for cocaine. Both are addictive. Both are illegal.

Morphine is a medical version of heroin. Types of drugs seem to go in and out of fashion just like pant styles.

[Guest]

I too think we were supposed to think Dr. K was contemplating suicide, and the encounter with Jack and Randall turned him around.  

I agree, it was weird that Miguel wanted Jack to buy golf gear but I think he pretty quickly switched to offering to buy it for him, didn't he?

I think heroin is back in vogue and is probably more expensive now, but then I think it was more of a cheap drug.  Cocaine was pricey then, with the crack version cheaper, IIRC.  It probably still is pricey.  

Odd trivia-- Heroin was so named because the medical community thought it would be a hero drug for people addicted to morphine. 

[ShadowFacts]

1 hour ago, Emily Thrace said:

William and Randall's mother were using heroin not crack though. Heroin and most opioids don't tend to cross through the placenta very well. That's partly why its used in epidurals. As long as his mother cut down a fair bit its entirely possible Randall didn't have any ill effects.

Randall says to Beth that the investigator told him his mother was a crack addict.  However, the vignette or montage we saw of the two of them on their bus rides showed them to be woozy and half passed out as if on depressants rather than hyped up on amphetamines.  So that's sort of contradictory, though they certainly could have used both.  Heroin is a cheap drug now because of a glut on the global market that keeps prices down.  I think it was pricier in the 80s.

1 hour ago, ChromaKelly said:

Yes, it's true that the long-term effects are not as bad as once thought, but a newborn is still going to have issues with withdrawal. He would at least need some NICU time.

He might have gotten some time in the nursery, because they took all three home at once, and the twins were 6 weeks premature, so possibly didn't go home right away. 

[JudyObscure]

2 hours ago, ChromaKelly said:

So yeah, he can do most of the work. I'm kind of on Rebecca's side here. I have twins and I was about to die towards the end. I was sleeping on the couch, it was hard to get up the stairs.

Would you have  walked to a liquor store, without calling first,  on the off chance they had baking needs?  That's the part I can't figure out.  If Rebecca was on bed rest or her doctor had told her that housework was off limits, why on earth would she endanger her babies, for a cake?  My gosh, Jack was a grown man, he isn't going to sob with disappointment because he doesn't get a birthday cake.  My husband and I have never done cakes.  We go out to dinner and the birthday person gets to chose where. If one of us forgot we wouldn't care.

[theatremouse]

I can easily buy her urgent desire to walk (without calling first) as part of what was a larger freak out in the moment. She wasn't being rational in general. Plus, ignoring for the moment the issue of state-run liquor stores in PA at the time, since the show did, most liquor stores I've been in that have anything but booze, do usually have certain staples like milk or butter (or possibly eggs). So while I'm not shocked she was SOL on things like flour and sugar, I also didn't find it unreasonable she thought she might be able to get some stuff....and if she was going for the whole almond thing...it actually is sort of possible they would've had things like nuts. I guess what I mean is...her idea wasn't completely preposterous even if it were ultimately unsuccessful.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, JudyObscure said:

Would you have  walked to a liquor store, without calling first,  on the off chance they had baking needs?  That's the part I can't figure out.  If Rebecca was on bed rest or her doctor had told her that housework was off limits, why on earth would she endanger her babies, for a cake?  My gosh, Jack was a grown man, he isn't going to sob with disappointment because he doesn't get a birthday cake.  My husband and I have never done cakes.  We go out to dinner and the birthday person gets to chose where. If one of us forgot we wouldn't care.

Though I'm totally with you about calling first, I figure the cake was one of their early traditions. Especially since she didn't exactly choose a basic cake. Plus, she was in apology mode, she'd realized she'd forgotten his birthday and wanted to make up for her earlier attitude.

I, personally, wouldn't think of going to a liquor store, but my take on the scene was not that she was looking for a liquor store, but that she walked to her limit, and was frustrated and desperate that the only thing she could find was the liquor store. I'm not sure they'd been living there very long.

I don't remember anything about Rebecca being on bedrest (other than the back and forth about whether or not she was lazy by not unpacking), so I'm not sure endangering the triplets came into it.

Rebecca may also have been in transition and operating from that surge of energy we sometimes get. I'm not sure when that starts for most women, since I had an odd labor (tv trope - one hour, but in reality it's all the normal hours compressed into one contraction without pause), my transition came on just before we went to the hospital. Until then, I had more energy and was feeling better than I had during my entire pregnancy. But during our drive, I nearly snapped my supportive and terrified husband's head off when he suggested I do my breathing. And when I was waiting to get taken up to delivery, I glared at the people who walked by me, wanting to rip their "oh, look, she's in labor" smiles off of their faces. I am normally fairly mild mannered. So while I get that it's an aggravating trope, apparently it's Tropes R Us in my household, so Rebecca's snappishness didn't bother me.

Edited January 22, 2017 by Clanstarling

[MaryPatShelby]

I don't think there was any indication that she was on bed rest before the triplets were born.

[theatremouse]

I think the show never explicitly made mention of bedrest, true, but at the same time, realistically, she most likely ought to have been by that point? I think that's where that's coming from.

[tribeca]

I love this show.  Even though I find the big three interesting I did not miss them this episode.   My heart broke for the firefighter praying to save his marriage.   Dr. K story felt so rare and really.  We went from despair to love and hope.   Love and hope won. 

  Another random thought Phyllis is really pretty.   

[theatremouse]

OK, wait, was her name actually Phylis or was that just a name someone came up with as a placeholder because it was easier than "that lady he was talking to at the grocery store"? Because I thought he said "Hello Anne" when they were in the store and the actress is Susan.

[ProudMary]

36 minutes ago, theatremouse said:

OK, wait, was her name actually Phylis or was that just a name someone came up with as a placeholder because it was easier than "that lady he was talking to at the grocery store"? Because I thought he said "Hello Anne" when they were in the store and the actress is Susan.

You're correct.  IMDb has Susan Blakely's role listed as "Anne."

[Emily Thrace]

5 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Randall says to Beth that the investigator told him his mother was a crack addict.  However, the vignette or montage we saw of the two of them on their bus rides showed them to be woozy and half passed out as if on depressants rather than hyped up on amphetamines.  So that's sort of contradictory, though they certainly could have used both.  Heroin is a cheap drug now because of a glut on the global market that keeps prices down.  I think it was pricier in the 80s.

Crack would have been wrong for the time period though. It didn't actually exist until 81 for a start. I assumed they were using heroin because of the era and the flashbacks of them on the bus. I suspect the PI(or TPTB) just made an error. The Randall's mothers records probably wouldn't specified the drug she used unless she died of an overdose. William has also mentioned he was a heroin addict at one point. 

[OtterMommy]

4 minutes ago, Emily Thrace said:

Crack would have been wrong for the time period though. It didn't actually exist until 81 for a start. I assumed they were using heroin because of the era and the flashbacks of them on the bus. I suspect the PI(or TPTB) just made an error. The Randall's mothers records probably wouldn't specified the drug she used unless she died of an overdose. William has also mentioned he was a heroin addict at one point. 

Also, "crack" has also become a catch-all term of late.  A "crackhead" may just mean a drug addict, not a crack cocaine addict.

[Guest]

Plus TV writers don't often seem to know much about illegal drugs.  I see it all the time where they say one drug and show the typical usage/paraphernalia and side effects of another.

[sasha206]

23 hours ago, Court said:

Adoption rules/laws were not as strict in 1980 as they are today. PA is still one one of the least restrictive states in regards to adoption.

I doubt renovations would have prevented the Pearsons from adopting Randall.

While there is some handwaving done surrounding it, I don't think a ton is required.

Um, 1980s you weren't walking out of a hospital with a baby same day, especially if the mother is just had 2 babies and a stillborn.  1980s were not an ancient time where people were neanderthals and didn't bother to at the very least do criminal background checks and have a social worker visit the dwellings.    

Edited January 22, 2017 by sasha206

[SlackerInc]

7 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I think heroin is back in vogue and is probably more expensive now, but then I think it was more of a cheap drug.

As someone else said, it has actually become very cheap and very pure (back then it was much more likely to be "cut" with baby laxative or other adulterants) and that's a big reason for why there are so many overdoses these days.

[Court]

We don't know that they went home the same day. Maybe they did a background check. But even with a home visit, renovation wouldn't be a reason to say no adoption in 1980. Plus, they'd already prepared for 3 babies, had 3 bassinets, etc.

I'm simply saying 1980 is not 2017 and things weren't the same then. It's a logical jump that if PA is currently one of the least restrictive states for adoption then it likely wasn't more restrictive in 1980. It's also easier to adopt from the state than a private adoption.

Some handwaving required but not as much as some other things.

An approach pioneered by New York state in 1965 and supported by the federal Adoption Assistance and Child Welfare Act of 1980, was to subsidize adoptions. Subsidies exposed the cruelty of market forces by offering economic incentives to adopt children for whom there was little or no demand. 

In other words, any non-white newborn was (and still is to a large extent, sadly) difficult to place.

Edited January 22, 2017 by Court

[NutMeg]

15 hours ago, kili said:

Heroin is an opiate derived from poppies originating Asia. Cocaine is a stimulant derived from the leaves of the coca plant originating in South America. Heroin can be inhaled, injected, eaten, smoked, whatever. Cocaine is mostly inhaled and is sold as a powder. Crack cocaine looks like a jagged rock and is just a form of cocaine that is mostly smoked. Crack is just crack cocaine for short. Heroin crack is a blend of cocaine and heroin. Heroin is a depressant that may kill you because it can cause you to stop breathing. Cocaine is a stimulant that may kill you by causing a heart attack. There is an antidote for heroin. There is not one for cocaine. Both are addictive. Both are illegal.

Morphine is a medical version of heroin. Types of drugs seem to go in and out of fashion just like pant styles.

Thank you Kili. Very informative and exhaustive.

15 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Odd trivia-- Heroin was so named because the medical community thought it would be a hero drug for people addicted to morphine. 

Thanks Winston for this unexpected trivia - yes, I did wonder about the origin of the name :)

And now I can't get Lou Reed's song out of my head... 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, SlackerInc said:

As someone else said, it has actually become very cheap and very pure (back then it was much more likely to be "cut" with baby laxative or other adulterants) and that's a big reason for why there are so many overdoses these days.

Good to know.  I imagine that could be partly behind it's recent popularity-- cheap and potent.

[Clanstarling]

40 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Good to know.  I imagine that could be partly behind it's recent popularity-- cheap and potent.

That and the hordes of people who've become addicted to opioids through prescribed medication. Over the years, doctors have over prescribed, and people who would, under normal circumstances, never have taken an illegal drug, have become addicted and when cut off from their prescriptions, have resorted to heroin. So a great many of the current heroin addicts are not the "usual" junkies, but "normal" people who've been accidentally made addicts. It's a scourge in most of our cities, and in my little town.