S01.E13: Give Us This Day

[formerlyfreedom]

Season finale!!!

Charley continues to make calculated decisions about Davis' basketball career and her desire to secure an investor in the farm. Davis attempts to repair his relationship with his son, Micah, but he faces resistance. Meanwhile, Nova and Calvin finally reunite; however, their relationship causes controversy in the community. Violet learns of Hollywood's departure and tries to make amends, and Ralph Angel makes a shocking discovery that changes everything.Tune in to the gripping season finale of Queen Sugar.

[NowVoyager]

Aw, Lawd! 

Charley done made a deal with two devils---hmm, maybe 3 or 4...--- trying to get the farm & mill right.

Now here come Ralph Angel with all the ammunition to f^ck it up!

And Hollywood's offshore for 6 months?!

Are you trying to hurt me, show?!?

[Dee]

So I'll be back with my full thoughts on this episode later.

But this I will say, I have a LOT of issues with Charley. I mean, a super TON.

But I will NEVER side with Ralph Angel over her. No matter HOW much unearned sympathy the writers toss in his direction.

[wanderingstar]

Charley's savage af. I couldn't decide if I liked or hated all of her manipulations. Glad she's not going back to Davis though.

I'm glad Calvin flattened that guy who disrespected Nova, but I can't see those 2 lasting.

I hope that's not the end of Hollywood and Vi.

[Artsda]

RA has no idea what he's doing, the farm would be nowhere without Charley's initial money. Him in charge of the land is going to be a major mess up. Especially with Blue's mom around. 

Loved the dancing scene of Calvin and Nora. 

Queen Sugar, I get it now with Charley at the end. I loved that Davis even pointed out she's always steps ahead, she is so calculating that I love it. She made all these deals from NBA to Farming all to tie together. Then she threw in a million to charity to boot! 

[mrsbagnet]

I was amazed at how quickly Calvin's friend went from gentlemanly flattery to sexual assault. I could see him being pissed at Nova, but to go from anger to ass grabbing was like, damn, really? Totally plausible, but disturbing nonetheless.

Charley was all kinds of wrong. I'm glad Davis and Remy both saw right through her.

ETA: I understand Charley's motivations, and I admire her acumen, but she is lying to and manipulating so many people that I can't side with her methods.

Edited December 1, 2016 by mrsbagnet

[Dee]

32 minutes ago, mrsbagnet said:

I was amazed at how quickly Calvin's friend went from gentlemanly flattery to sexual assault. I could see him being pissed at Nova, but to go from anger to ass grabbing was like, damn, really? Totally plausible, but disturbing nonetheless.

When he spat in her face I wanted her to make a voodoo doll of him and puncture it with all manner of stickpins.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Dee

[mrsbagnet]

I just rewatched that scene because I wasn't fully paying attention the first time. I can't believe he spit in her face like that. I don't see Nova and Calvin lasting, either. The antipathy of his friends? The label of "homewrecker" that she'll be forced to wear, justified or not? I don't see Nova staying for that.

On a happier note, I'm so glad that Too Sweet got the chance to leave town. I hope all goes well with him.

[DearEvette]

Charley took me on a rollercoaster ride.  One the one hand I LOVE what she is trying to accomplish with the mill and how she hustled Felix.  But I hated all the stuff with Davis and it cost her Remy. But I did like her interaction with the owner of the NOLA team who seemed to think she was too good for Davis.

I like Ralph Angel and do think he is being dismissed by Charley, but I am not convinced he has the maturity to run the farm on his own.  But I do hope that he, Darla and Azul (ha!) form a strong family unit.  That would be a fantasy outcome and very affirmational.

God, Nova and Calvin are all sorts of screen chemistry but they feel like they are doomed and that makes me sad because they looked so happy.  I can't help but think that the guy's reaction to her, once he discovered she was Nova Bordelon is a not-so-sly dig at how out of control irrational and even violent some folks get at a little bit of criticism toward the police.  Because god forbid, someone criticize the police.   I do think this is a meaty conflict to place on their relationship.  One would think that the bigger obstacles toward them being happy would be him finalizing his divorce and to some extent their interracial relationship.  But those two things aren't even their biggest barrier to their happiness.  And the hardship isn't necessarily Nova's, it is Calvin's.  So does he put his money where his mouth is?  Is she worth the ostracism he will face from his brothers in blue?

Overall such a strong season and  great show that deceptively packed a LOT of stuff in to 13 episodes. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by DearEvette
typos galore!

[Arcadiasw]

I was expecting the other shoe to drop with Two Sweet but if he’s leaving then good for him. It’s best to leave town and start a new and hopefully happy life elsewhere.

I didn’t see the assault coming but I knew Nova’s stories about the police wouldn’t sit well with Calvin’s brothers and sisters in blue. It’ll be interesting what Nova’s friends think of the relationship given their feelings towards the police.

Looks like there will be an ugly fight over the land between Charley and RA but before RA challenges her, he needs to remember Charley can easily pull her money out and leave. He needs her and at this point I think more than she needs him. Charley has the money, the business mind and influence to get things done. She could contest that will if she wants. RA has nothing but a piece of paper saying he owns the land. He’ll be in the same position his father was in when he battled the Landrys and Boudreauxs alone if he battles with Charley. I hope they don’t fight because the Landrys and Bourdreaxs could take advantage of the situation.

The only thing I agree with RA is waiting to get the mill running next season. It’s going to cost a lot of money and manpower to get that mill running in time. Charley can get help outside the parish but I question the time and it’s a huge gamble that will affect the Bordelon family and the other people in the parish they convinced to join them if it doesn’t work out.

After last week, I can't be surprised about Charley's actions. It's only adding on to what we saw last week. I'm not sure Micah has seen that side of his mother before but it could greatly affect their relationship and might change Micah's perspective of his Dad and his parent's marriage.

[LydiaMoon1]

1 hour ago, Arcadiasw said:

RA has nothing but a piece of paper saying he owns the land.

....aaaaand this is the part that I just...can't.  If their daddy thought that giving RA sole possession of the Bordelon land was a good idea, then he was as big a dumbazz as RA.  With RA in charge, that land would be in Landry/Boudreaux hands in no time flat and without the exchange of one thin dime.  SMH.

Stay tuned.

Edited December 1, 2016 by LydiaMoon1

[Dee]

14 minutes ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

....aaaaand this is the part that I just...can't.  If their daddy thought that giving RA sole possession of the Bordelon land was a good idea, then he was as big a dumbazz as RA.  With RA in charge, that land would be in Landry/Boudreaux hands in no time flat and without the exchange of one thin dime.  SMH.

Stay tuned.

Thank you.

It also doesn't square with Ernest mindset prior to his death. When Ralph Angel approaches him offering his ill-gotten convenience store cash, Ernest gives him a long, hard stare before reluctantly pocketing the money. Money which I sincerely doubt he would've accepted at all, had his personal life, and by extension the farm, not been in such dire straits.

And it's clear from the Pilot that Ralph Angel supposedly had been actively looking for work elsewhere, so why all of the sudden would Ernest feel the need to bequeath the Bordelon Family Farm, to Ralph Angel, wholesale? Especially when he's the father of two daughters who have very active careers and/or significant business experience whom he also supposedly holds in equal regard as his only son?

Edited December 1, 2016 by Dee

[Sheenieb]

Quote

Looks like there will be an ugly fight over the land between Charley and RA but before RA challenges her, he needs to remember Charley can easily pull her money out and leave. He needs her and at this point I think more than she needs him. Charley has the money, the business mind and influence to get things done. She could contest that will if she wants. RA has nothing but a piece of paper saying he owns the land. He’ll be in the same position his father was in when he battled the Landrys and Boudreauxs alone if he battles with Charley. I hope they don’t fight because the Landrys and Bourdreaxs could take advantage of the situation.

Yeah, though now that she has investors, it's way too much on the line now for her to just pull out. I hope it doesn't end in an ugly court case. Property will do that, though.

Charley and RA are both right and wrong. RA is thinking too small. It's a dope idea to own and operate their own mill. Why depend on the people that hate them and enslaved their ancestors? Charley's mistake is acting like the sole proprietor instead of co-owner. RA will most likely challenge her since I doubt the revised document will be a Chekov's gun. I just want him to be smarter and realize that while their father might not have thought about having a dynasty, he did want his children united. This is their chance to honor that. 

[DearEvette]

I am wondering if Earnest wrote that in preparation for changing his will but was waiting for Ralph Angel to settle a bit and maybe spend time with him before he did it with his lawyers.  I could see it as something he thought was right.  I mean, Charley was barely in NOLA she had her life in LA.  Nova showed no interest in the farm and had a full life with her community projects.  But maybe he saw this as a way to give RA something of his own and possibly keep in for Blue.  But he knew RA wasn't ready (why it was still in a locked box ion a top closet shelf).  And of course, Death waits for no one.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Good on Charley for not being willing to prostitute herself for a basketball deal. However, I still don't like her using her child to try to work her husband.

Oh boy, that was impressive the way Charley took Felix down. I think rich men who can't control their libidos deserve to have it cost them every dollar the women (and children) they hurt can get.

Poor Nova. Now that Calvin has chosen her over his marriage, next he'll have to chose between her and his career. I'm thinking she won't let him choose her even if he says he wants to.

How convenient for Ralph Angel now to find the will. But I don't understand: on what legal document have he, Nova, and Charley been operating under so far? Whatever, of course Charley will challenge it, especially since Darla was involved in its discovery.

Kind of a weak season finale though, IMO. I wonder if they knew they'd been renewed when this was filmed?

Edited December 1, 2016 by Joimiaroxeu

[Dee]

I normally love this show. Mainly because of the actors, but the finale was a huge letdown.

There is SO much wrong with this show, primarily the writing but because it's a "positive Black show" it largely escapes genuine criticism.

Hopefully Queen Sugar gets it together next season. But I'm not holding my breath.

[LydiaMoon1]

48 minutes ago, Dee said:

There is SO much wrong with this show, primarily the writing but because it's a "positive Black show" it largely escapes genuine criticism.

Just curious.  What about the show would you change?

[copshop]

A lot of shows that I like have had jumps in quality in second seasons (The Americans, Bloodline), so I am optimistic. The parts are all here, the writing just needs some fine-tuning. I loved that they jerked us around with Charley--I really thought she might go back to Davis just to get her way, but she was working a long con and good on her! She is now my favorite.

I call total BS on Ernest making that will change. He was as suspicious about RA getting his act together for good as many of us still are. The siblings are the heart of the show so I hope they work it out and do not subject us to a long rift.

[Keepitmoving]

3 hours ago, Dee said:

.aaaaand this is the part that I just...can't.  If their daddy thought that giving RA sole possession of the Bordelon land was a good idea, then he was as big a dumbazz as RA.  With RA in charge, that land would be in Landry/Boudreaux hands in no time flat and without the exchange of one thin dime.  SMH.

Stay tuned.

True, but that's why I think the dad kept calling Charley but she never made it there in time. He wanted her business skills to help him make plans and square away his will. He probably wrote that note at the last minute because he didn't know if Charley would ever make it down there. 

I look at this way, no one in the family can kick RA off that land and I guess that's a good thing, not that I see anyone in the family wanting to do that. But hey, you never know.

But in terms of running the farm, that's my concern.

But didn't the letter also include mention of RA's siblings owing that land or at least working together to keep it up?  It did.  In the letter the father says that he  wants RA to remain on the land, live there, build on it, it is his to build on, but he goes on to mention the other two children in relation to the land didn't he? I think he covered himself if I understood that letter correctly in that how to run that land is not just for RA to decide, it is for all of his children to decide together, but they can NOT under any circumstances sell it out from under RA. That's his home, the father left him a home on that land that his sisters cannot sell out from under him. But I sure didn't get that letter implying that RA could make all the business decisions in terms of farming that land.

Edited December 1, 2016 by Keepitmoving

[LydiaMoon1]

1 hour ago, Keepitmoving said:

But didn't the letter also include mention of RA's siblings owing that land or at least working together to keep it up?  It did.  In the letter the father says that he  wants RA to remain on the land, live there, build on it, it is his to build on, but he goes on to mention the other two children in relation to the land didn't he? I think he covered himself if I understood that letter correctly in that how to run that land is not just for RA to decide, it is for all of his children to decide together, but they can NOT under any circumstances sell it out from under RA.

I hope you're right. I imagine I missed a significant portion of the details during the time I was muttering and ranting and getting a glass of water. I should have paid better attention, but RA finding that letter angered me.  I know a family like the Bordelons; two sisters and one brother.  Despite any evidence that his son had an ounce of sense, the father left the family's considerable tract of land to him.  It was gone in three months. 

[Keepitmoving]

1 hour ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

I hope you're right. I imagine I missed a significant portion of the details during the time I was muttering and ranting and getting a glass of water. I should have paid better attention, but RA finding that letter angered me.  I know a family like the Bordelons; two sisters and one brother.  Despite any evidence that his son had an ounce of sense, the father left the family's considerable tract of land to him.  It was gone in three months. 

LOL, at first I was side eyeing Darla until RA said something about noticing that the letter was in his father's handwriting. So, I let the theory of Darla writing that letter go once he said that. Not to mention, yes, the father definitely spoke of the land and tending to it in terms of all of his children and I don't think Darla would have mentioned them in the letter at all if she meant to steal it all out from under Charley and Nova. Ah, who knows, I'm letting it go for now.  But that letter definitely mentioned his two other children and that land as the legacy he left for them all, not just RA. But it was specific to RA that he remain on the land and build his life there. The father knew what he was doing, he knew he was the "black sheep" and  if any of them would lose their way and end up with no roof over their head without the know how to survive, it would be RA. So he left him a roof over his head, but including the other two children in that letter means that they have a say in how the land around that house should be farmed.  Because remember, at first the two sisters wanted to sell it, fortunately aunt Vi convinced them to give it a go for their father and for RA's sake; but this letter now makes it official that they can't sell that farm out from under RA. Now they can pull out and good luck to RA if that happens, but they can't unilaterally put anything up for sell and  kick him off that land. 

Edited December 1, 2016 by Keepitmoving

[ribboninthesky1]

After watching the preview for this episode, I knew the "Ernest really wanted Ralph Angel to have the land" was coming.  The same Ralph Angel that was completely down for selling the land to the Boudreaux family, sight unseen, a few episodes ago. And that's not to mention the criminal activities he engaged in AFTER his prison release. Chile... 

I don't care about Hollywood and Vi. I hope Vi moves on.  If that man is willing to jump ship because he saw you dancing with another man, then let him. It really annoys me that that Hollywood is expected to be forgiven (per the writers) for lying about being married, not to mention financially and legally supporting said spouse via his insurance, because he was "good" to Vi.  I could write a dissertation about the bullshit that women, especially black women, are expected to tolerate in their relationships.  And if they do play a little dirty, they are certain to be held accountable in a way that men rarely are. 

I think there were strong performances by all, but I feel like the show didn't really know what it wanted to be and particularly who Charley and Nova are meant to be.  I'll never understand why they had Calvin be married in the first place.  As I've shared from the beginning, Nova and Calvin had plenty of realistic, meaty conflict to mine without throwing in an extramarital affair.  

Maybe next season will feel more grounded? I was hoping for more family cohesion in the 2nd season, and certainly less Rah whining. I doubt that will happen. 

[damalanop]

11 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Good on Charley for not being willing to prostitute herself for a basketball deal. However, I still don't like her using her child to try to work her husband.

Oh boy, that was impressive the way Charley took Felix down. I think rich men who can't control their libidos deserve to have it cost them every dollar the women (and children) they hurt can get.

Poor Nova. Now that Calvin has chosen her over his marriage, next he'll have to chose between her and his career. I'm thinking she won't let him choose her even if he says he wants to.

How convenient for Ralph Angel now to find the will. But I don't understand: on what legal document have he, Nova, and Charley been operating under so far? Whatever, of course Charley will challenge it, especially since Darla was involved in its discovery.

Kind of a weak season finale though, IMO. I wonder if they knew they'd been renewed when this was filmed?

Regarding the legal document that the siblings had been operating under: after Ernest's death, there was a reading of a will that left the land to Charley, RA and Nova, if I recall correctly.  What Darla and RA found seems to be a codicil of some sort.

I'm in agreement with the comments above, Ernest leaving RA the land solely, was a terrible move and sets up a potentially ugly fight between the siblings.  Also...Nova and Calvin...damn.  Couldn't they have been happy for at least a couple of "real" dates before something bad happened? I absolutely love them together! Charley has me rooting for her and disliking her at the same time. Love her talking charge with the mill and even strongarming Davis to sign in N.O., but using Micah and marginalizing Remy while doing the badass stuff doesn't set well at all.  Charley may end up with nothing the way she's going.

Next season can't come soon enough, so we can see how all of these cliffhangers play out!

Edited December 2, 2016 by damalanop

[DearEvette]

31 minutes ago, damalanop said:

I'm in agreement with the comments above, Ernest leaving RA the land solely, was a terrible move and sets up a potentially ugly fight between the siblings.

It does set up the potential for a fight.  It'll all depend on if RA feels he is being heard and if he sees this as some trump card he can play if he feels Charley and/or Nova are shutting him out of decisions.

The story has the potential to play out in a lot of different ways.  First there would be the determination if the letter constitutes a legal will.  States have different requirements.  Some states requires a will to be witnessed by at least two people, i some states the states wishes of the testator was enough.  If it is legal and RA wants to claim it solely for himself he is up a creek.  He can't get a loan, he has no money and he has to way of getting the sugar milled.  He really needs Charley's capital.

And second, even if what Earnest wrote isn't legal, then Charley and Nova will know that Earnest really did not intend for them to share in the farm.  That is a psychological kick in the taint for them. 

No matter how it turns out, there is the potentail for some real discord there.

[rozen]

I was behind, so got to watch Charley bring the fire and ice in back to back episodes. My main takeaway was man is Davis screwed without her running assist for him anymore. She's a goddamn shark, and she was a shark in love in that girlish way that makes you go all out for your spouse, and he wrecked it.  Charley is literally never going to love like that again and Remy was just setting himself up for heartache if he thought could get even a fraction of what Charley gave Davis. I have thoroughly enjoyed ice cold Charley and if these menz (Ra included) can't handle the icicles they don't deserve to experience her greatness!

Couldn't care less that Micah may be slightly scarred by this. She's taken a half dozen shots protecting him from everything and all he's done is whine and flip flop on how he feels about his Dad. He hates him now? Sure, whatever, in two months when Davis is back in top he'll love his Dad again and be mad at Charley for keeping him away. 15 years old is the definition of emotional turmoil, he'll survive.

Why would Calvin take Nova someplace where his cop friends go? They both need to go at least a couple parishes away so neither one of their respective crews see each other. This is some Montague vs Capulet shit, it's not going to be resolved because y'all woke up one morning deciding to screw around like respectable people. 

Ugh, Earnest, ugh. So he wanted Charley to drop everything and come get his farm in order so it would be tidy upon handoff to knuckle-headed son to screw up? I don't think he can own the farm anyway because of his probation right? He needs a boss signing a time slip, I don't think he can write his own and say it's good. I don't necessarily disagree with Darla's attempts to build Ra up as a man, but he always applies her advice in the most petulant way possible and I'm not sure she sees that. She seems a little like a shark, too.

[LydiaMoon1]

7 hours ago, rozen said:

I was behind, so got to watch Charley bring the fire and ice in back to back episodes. My main takeaway was man is Davis screwed without her running assist for him anymore. She's a goddamn shark, and she was a shark in love in that girlish way that makes you go all out for your spouse, and he wrecked it.  

I love, Love, LOVED Charley "the shark".  She was doing the darn thing, wasn't she?  That dumb-bunny Davis clowned himself by taking her for granted because you're so right.  He will sorely miss all that she brought to the table.

7 hours ago, rozen said:

Ugh, Earnest, ugh. So he wanted Charley to drop everything and come get his farm in order so it would be tidy upon handoff to knuckle-headed son to screw up?

Thank you!  I've gotta hand it to the finale though.  It laid the foundation for a season 2 filled with conflict; Charley vs. RA, the Bordelons vs. the Landry/Boudreaux clan, Calvin and Nova vs. the World.  It will be good, even though I'll have to subject myself to listening to more of RA's whining and demanding respect that he hasn't earned.

[Neurochick]

I'm annoyed but not surprised at this show.  Their father showed the serious misogyny that exists.  In too many communities, the males are uplifted by the females and the males, most of the time, never reciprocate.  I'm sick of seeing black women being the soldiers (Nova and Charley) while man children like Ralph Angel, who I'd never even pee on if he were on fire, get all the goodies. 

I don't think I'll watch this show next season if they're going that way.  I'm not surprised black women are behind this show either; too many of us are male identified for my taste.

[ribboninthesky1]

8 hours ago, rozen said:

Charley is literally never going to love like that again and Remy was just setting himself up for heartache if he thought could get even a fraction of what Charley gave Davis.

This reminds me - I like Remy.  He's a mature, reasonable, intelligent man.  But I've never been that invested in Remy and Charley as a couple.  (As I'm writing this, I realize that I'm not invested in any of the women's romantic relationships because of the writing). I've no problem with Charley moving on. However, Remy has known from the beginning that she's in a messy situation. He knowingly chose to pursue a woman who is still technically married.  I don't agree with Charley playing both sides, but this is what I meant by women playing a little dirty.  I wrote a couple of episodes ago that I would have been fine with Charley remaining married to Davis for access to his money. I like the way she played it with Felix and and Frank, but I think she pivoted when it was clear that Davis wanted more than a performance for the cameras and wouldn't stay in NOLA to play house. I hope we're not subjected to lectures next season because she doesn't play nice in business when it comes down to the wire.          

Two things I did appreciate about the finale:

One, Charley's chess moves weren't just to benefit her family - she had a larger vision in uplifting that entire community in concrete, economic ways.  That's the stuff the draws me to this show.  Nova's take on social justice, while valiant and relevant and necessary, bothered me for reasons.

Two, Nova and Charley are solid with each other and with Vi. Please, showrunners: they can argue, disagree, whatever.  Just let them remain close.  I never knew how much I needed to see black women have healthy, functional, supportive relationships with each other on TV. But I do. The most impactful scenes for me in this episode involved Nova having Charley's back.     

I'm not looking forward to the Ralph Angel vs Charley (and Nova?) conflict because the show has already demonstrated that it's entirely sympathetic to him. I don't have much confidence that it will be a circumspect, rounded conflict. Anything's possible, though. 

9 hours ago, rozen said:

This is some Montague vs Capulet shit, it's not going to be resolved because y'all woke up one morning deciding to screw around like respectable people. 

I.am.unable, rozen! In truth, I always wondered why Nova wasn't threatened by local officers after she wrote that article. Calvin is all kinds of sexy (didn't know Greg Vaughan had moves like that - I may have watched the dancing a few times, ahem).  We'll see how it plays out. I'm praying there is no confrontation with the ex-wife.  I don't want to see her, and don't care about her perspective.  Not sorry.     

Side note: Nova's outfits in this episode were everything. I normally don't pay much attention, but her styling really popped for me.           

[GodsBeloved]

2 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

Nova's take on social justice, while valiant and relevant and necessary, bothered me for reasons.

Would you mind sharing those reasons?

[Neurochick]

The scene that really moved me was when Nova was spat upon by that piece of human excrement (I'm sorry to offend pieces of shit).  When that happened it was Calvin who went after "him."  I liked that because so often black women are shown as "mules" and "soldiers", thinking nothing of attacking a grown man.  Nova was frozen and it was Calvin who did the chivalrous thing, to go after the "male" who assaulted her. 

IMO though, the bouncers should have thrown the "male" out of the club on his ass.

[Arcadiasw]

On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 10:26 AM, LydiaMoon1 said:

....aaaaand this is the part that I just...can't.  If their daddy thought that giving RA sole possession of the Bordelon land was a good idea, then he was as big a dumbazz as RA.  With RA in charge, that land would be in Landry/Boudreaux hands in no time flat and without the exchange of one thin dime.  SMH.

Stay tuned.

I agree Ernest is an idiot if that was his intent but I’ve questioned Ernest smarts ever since the Bordelon children learned the truth about the farm. I think Ernest wanted RA to live on the farm so he can have a place to live for him and his son and have a career farming sugar cane because Nova and Charley had their lives together and careers. RA didn’t have that though I really wish we could get insight into why. Nova and Charley went to school and got jobs. Why did RA get in trouble with the law? Nova helped out trouble youths and people in her community like Two Sweet but I’ve wondered why she didn’t do the same for RA unless she Nova tried helping RA or tried to prevent him from getting in trouble and he didn’t listen and as a result didn’t help him out while he was in jail.

 

On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 2:34 PM, Keepitmoving said:

True, but that's why I think the dad kept calling Charley but she never made it there in time. He wanted her business skills to help him make plans and square away his will. He probably wrote that note at the last minute because he didn't know if Charley would ever make it down there. 

I look at this way, no one in the family can kick RA off that land and I guess that's a good thing, not that I see anyone in the family wanting to do that. But hey, you never know.

But in terms of running the farm, that's my concern.

I don't think anyone wants to kick RA off the farm but if RA gets on Charley's bad side who knows.

On ‎12‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 5:35 PM, Keepitmoving said:

LOL, at first I was side eyeing Darla until RA said something about noticing that the letter was in his father's handwriting. So, I let the theory of Darla writing that letter go once he said that.

Honestly I thought the same thing too, especially with the sly smiles on Darla face.

[Neurochick]

13 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

I agree Ernest is an idiot if that was his intent but I’ve questioned Ernest smarts ever since the Bordelon children learned the truth about the farm. I think Ernest wanted RA to live on the farm so he can have a place to live for him and his son and have a career farming sugar cane because Nova and Charley had their lives together and careers. RA didn’t have that though I really wish we could get insight into why. Nova and Charley went to school and got jobs. Why did RA get in trouble with the law? Nova helped out trouble youths and people in her community like Two Sweet but I’ve wondered why she didn’t do the same for RA unless she Nova tried helping RA or tried to prevent him from getting in trouble and he didn’t listen and as a result didn’t help him out while he was in jail.

This reminds me of a comment I heard about 35 years ago.  A black psychologist (don't remember his name) commented that "Black mothers raise their daughters and love their sons."  Meaning they teach their daughters how to get along in the world, while they spoil their sons.  Maybe Ernest did the same for his children.

[talktoomuch]

23 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

Charley's chess moves weren't just to benefit her family - she had a larger vision in uplifting that entire community in concrete, economic ways.     

And this is exactly why I just canNOT with RA and that handwritten "will" that Darla made magically fall from the sky. RA's refrigeration idea was a good idea to facilitate milling the old way that still keeps everybody enslaved to the Landrys-Boudreaux. Charley is trying to shift the entire paradigm. RA is just now learning how to get his own life together, while Charley is trying to change a whole parish's lives forever. Sit down RA, Charley is playing chess, and you're not even playing checkers. You're barely playing that little jump the sticks game at Cracker Barrel.

[ribboninthesky1]

20 hours ago, GodsBeloved said:

Would you mind sharing those reasons?

Most of my reasoning I shared in a post from episode 7:

On 10/21/2016 at 2:54 PM, ribboninthesky1 said:

My main problem with it is that it is very male-centered.  As if black girls and women are impervious to the same conditions that these black men and boys have experienced.  Not nary a mention of the black girls and women who have been beaten, shot, raped, and murdered, not just by police officers, but by the men in these very communities. I mean, if you're gonna go there, then go all the way there and be circumspect with it. I expect that kind of myopia on shows where the leads are primarily black men.  I expect better from this show. 

I'd add that, historically, black women have usually been on the front lines with civil rights and social justice, and are almost always unsung, or their work minimized (example: Rosa Parks did a helluva more than take a seat on a bus). And they did so at even greater risk to themselves than men.  That was largely ignored on this show because Ava and her team wanted to make a point of primarily men as victims of corruption. Even the undocumented workers featured in episodes 8 and 9 were all men.  

Finally, I prefer social justice that truly empowers without seeking acknowledgement and validation from the very people who perpetuate it.  Fact is, white supremacy is woven in the fabric of American society, law, economy.  While not all whites perpetuate it, I don't think that those in positions of power who do are ignorant of their own bigotry.  They know it very well, and knowingly operate in it.  Unless you hit them economically or legally, there's no reason for them to change.  It's why I prefer Charley's approach with the mill - instead of trying to operate and be successful with the current framework, which hasn't benefited the black farmers in that parish - she's looking to build a new one that enables them to be self-sustaining and profitable. And also, the farmers she met with? Men and women.   Her approach is just as difficult, perhaps even more so, but there's a long game that's more beneficial, IMO. 

20 hours ago, Neurochick said:

The scene that really moved me was when Nova was spat upon by that piece of human excrement (I'm sorry to offend pieces of shit).  When that happened it was Calvin who went after "him."  I liked that because so often black women are shown as "mules" and "soldiers", thinking nothing of attacking a grown man.  Nova was frozen and it was Calvin who did the chivalrous thing, to go after the "male" who assaulted her. 

IMO though, the bouncers should have thrown the "male" out of the club on his ass.

I agree, though it seemed like the spitting in her face affected her much more than the physical assault.  And Calvin was being restrained at that point, thus couldn't put a further beatdown on his co-worker.  Nova seemed very alone in that moment, and it was sad.  

[Neurochick]

6 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

I agree, though it seemed like the spitting in her face affected her much more than the physical assault.  And Calvin was being restrained at that point, thus couldn't put a further beatdown on his co-worker.  Nova seemed very alone in that moment, and it was sad.  

And I thought the bouncers were punks for restraining Calvin.  Once he spit on Nova, the bouncers should have let Calvin beat the shit out of that asshole.  

And I think this show is TOO male identified, so much so that I might not watch next year.  So typical that black women do all the soldering and hard work while black men reap all the benefits.  

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

The scene that really moved me was when Nova was spat upon by that piece of human excrement (I'm sorry to offend pieces of shit).  When that happened it was Calvin who went after "him."  I liked that because so often black women are shown as "mules" and "soldiers", thinking nothing of attacking a grown man.  Nova was frozen and it was Calvin who did the chivalrous thing, to go after the "male" who assaulted her. 

IMO though, the bouncers should have thrown the "male" out of the club on his ass.

And I think this show is TOO male identified, so much so that I might not watch next year.  

All I have to say is that they should have made Calvin black cop, because I'm tired of the shit that black women get for dating outside of their race. Now I have to see this shit on tv in 2016? Because despite America trying to go backwards with this latest election, I still call bullshit. Considering I have yet to see the black male character having any issues on  screen or in real life for that matter, when he's in an interracial relationship, not these days anyway. 

I realize that in the scene where the cop spat on her that it was mainly about her being the reporter who is trying to calling out the justice system and the police dept. in that town for their corruption and he of course thinks that he and his "brothers" in blue can do no wrong, because he was a complete gentleman before he found out her last name. So in that scene they did try to show that it wasn't about her being black, but that doesn't matter to me. Why is a black woman having trouble in a relationship with a white man on screen where race IS at play between the lines? I'm over it, don't want to see it, because I don't see the vice versa.

Edited December 4, 2016 by Keepitmoving

[Happytobehere]

On 12/1/2016 at 10:26 AM, LydiaMoon1 said:

....aaaaand this is the part that I just...can't.  If their daddy thought that giving RA sole possession of the Bordelon land was a good idea, then he was as big a dumbazz as RA.  With RA in charge, that land would be in Landry/Boudreaux hands in no time flat and without the exchange of one thin dime.  SMH.

Stay tuned.

That's where I went when the new will was read.  There is no one who has met RA who could seriously believe that irresponsible dumbass (he couldn't even tell rotted cane and he left Blue eating churro in the park to rob a store, where his face was seen) should be left in charge of a lemonade stand, let alone a massive amount of land, and land that cost that family such a large price.  I'm assuming the father had to be suffering from dementia or some deranged form of melancholy when he wrote that.  the father we saw who knew RA did something illegal to get that money he was trying to give him would never have thought it was a good idea to leave the farm to RA.  

And no, I don't trust Darla even the slightest.  Did you see her eyes perking up. Something is not right with her character.  There is a reason beyond the drugs that Vi doesn't like her.  Something just isn't right.

I like Nova and Calvin and hope they can make things work, but I agree with the poster who stated their biggest obstacle will not be the wife, it will rather be their respective communities (police and those in the struggle with her).  These forces will ultimately pull them apart, love for one another or not and that's a shame because I really do believe they love one another.

As for Charley, it has been my lifelong experience that anyone who can lie and manipulate everyone and everything around them (including her child) so easily is simply not a good person at their core.  I wondered why we didn't get a scene showing her releasing Davis' side piece to the media, and now I know why -- the show didn't want us to even begin to suspect the true nature of her character.  

Having said that, if a battle is coming between Charley and RA over Queen Sugar, I side with Charley because RA will be the cause of that land being right back in the hands of the Landry/Boudreaux family in no time (remember how his eyes practically bugged out of his head at the offer they made).  RA is the type of child you leave things in a trust for until they are 35/40 in the hopes that they have grown up enough to manage life.

[laprin]

If their father thought handing over the farm to Ralph Angel was a good idea, it's no wonder the farm was in trouble when he died. I also take serious issue with him claiming to love his daughters and then ostensibly cutting them out of the will. I am taken by how sexist it is that he seems to think his daughters could serve no purpose in helping to build the farm. 

Charley is one of those "ends justifying means" types and that is going to land her in big trouble sooner rather than later. 

[Neurochick]

17 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

All I have to say is that they should have made Calvin black cop, because I'm tired of the shit that black women get for dating outside of their race. Now I have to see this shit on tv in 2016? Because despite America trying to go backwards with this latest election, I still call bullshit. Considering I have yet to see the black male character having any issues on  screen or in real life for that matter, when he's in an interracial relationship, not these days anyway. 

I realize that in the scene where the cop spat on her that it was mainly about her being the reporter who is trying to calling out the justice system and the police dept. in that town for their corruption and he of course thinks that he and his "brothers" in blue can do no wrong, because he was a complete gentleman before he found out her last name. So in that scene they did try to show that it wasn't about her being black, but that doesn't matter to me. Why is a black woman having trouble in a relationship with a white man on screen where race IS at play between the lines? I'm over it, don't want to see it, because I don't see the vice versa.

I think they were trying to show that the cop didn't have a problem with Nova being black UNTIL she said her name, but I do agree with the statement of "why show a black woman having issues in an IN relationship when no one says "boo!" when it's a black man/white woman."

[LydiaMoon1]

On 12/3/2016 at 4:18 PM, Neurochick said:

And I think this show is TOO male identified, so much so that I might not watch next year.  So typical that black women do all the soldering and hard work while black men reap all the benefits.  

IA that the show is male-identified, but, since I accept that as the mindset of most people in the BC, I see it as a true reflection.

On 12/4/2016 at 3:41 PM, Keepitmoving said:

All I have to say is that they should have made Calvin black cop, because I'm tired of the shit that black women get for dating outside of their race.

Not me.  I’m all for the discontinuance of black women limiting themselves to black men.  Black women during the 60’s marched, boycotted and had water hoses and dogs turned on them, and they were rewarded for their sacrifices by seeing it become the norm for successful black men to marry non-black women and withdraw their money from the BC and for black men in general to trash the image of black women in entertainment, in music (especially rap) and all over social media.  So I’m just fine with Calvin just like he is.  The BC has more than demonstrated that they’re going to give BW sh*t no matter what we do, so go ahead and taste the rainbow.

On 12/4/2016 at 9:16 PM, Happytobehere said:

I like Nova and Calvin and hope they can make things work, but I agree with the poster who stated their biggest obstacle will not be the wife, it will rather be their respective communities (police and those in the struggle with her).  These forces will ultimately pull them apart, love for one another or not and that's a shame because I really do believe they love one another.

That’s not a foregone conclusion.  BWWM have the lowest divorce rate of any couples.  I’m guessing it’s because they are forced to bond together so tightly due to outside forces. Knowing that, Nova and Calvin’s relationship could go either way. I’m interested to see which way they go. Plus, it doesn’t hurt that the actors generate genuine heat onscreen. 

 

Quote

Nova's take on social justice, while valiant and relevant and necessary, bothered me for reasons.

Quote

My main problem with it is that it is very male-centered.  As if black girls and women are impervious to the same conditions that these black men and boys have experienced.  Not nary a mention of the black girls and women who have been beaten, shot, raped, and murdered, not just by police officers, but by the men in these very communities.

The above has ALWAYS bothered me, but Nova’s SJW storyline mainly bothered me for one very specific reason.  To me, social justice is a mirage that keeps people busy, but not productive. 

Take Nova for an example.  She ran around visiting jails and hospital and writing articles…and  for what?  Yes, it was nice that Nova was able to help get Too Sweet’s charges dropped (with an able assist from Calvin), but the system is still intact.  If that drug dealer and Too Sweet are pulled over by the cops on their way to Alabama, Too Sweet can easily be right back in the same situation (or worse) all over again.  It’s like Charley and RA’s argument regarding the mill.  RA was probably right.  Earnest probably did envision RA living on that land the same way he did, eking out a living on that farm year after year.  They consider that a win.  Charley, OTOH, is thinking in terms of economic empowerment.  RA was right when he told her that building an empire was her dream.  I’m with Charley.  If you truly want to change your circumstances, you have to begin with a strong economic base and you must build a solid infrastructure.  Queen Sugar (the mill) is infrastructure.

Basically, I look at it this way: Social Justice = give a man a fish. Sure, he’ll eat today, but he’ll be hungry again tomorrow.  Economic Empowerment = teach a man to fish.  He’ll never be hungry again.

Edited December 6, 2016 by LydiaMoon1

[Neurochick]

7 minutes ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

Not me.  I’m all for the discontinuance of black women limiting themselves to black men.  Black women during the 60’s marched, boycotted and had water hoses and dogs turned on them, and they were rewarded for their sacrifices by seeing it become the norm for successful black men to marry non-black women and withdraw their money from the BC and for black men in general to trash the image of black women in entertainment, in music (especially rap) and all over social media.  So I’m just fine with Calvin just like he is.  The BC has more than demonstrated that they’re going to give BW sh*t no matter what we do, so go ahead and taste the rainbow.

Correct.  But I was more upset that Nova/Calvin are going to have issues.  Why not just show them having a good time together? I know this is a soap opera but still...and yes, the BC is too fucking male-identified, so I agree with you there. 

 

8 minutes ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

IA that the show is male-identified, but, since I accept that as the mindset of most people in the BC, I see it as a true reflection.

A VERY true reflection, which is why I like Charley because she's thinking of the long game.  She's thinking about infrastructure; begging massa for crumbs never worked, owning the bread where the crumbs come from does work.

[LydiaMoon1]

17 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Correct.  But I was more upset that Nova/Calvin are going to have issues.  Why not just show them having a good time together? I know this is a soap opera but still...and yes, the BC is too fucking male-identified, so I agree with you there. 

Well, I was actually quoting you for the male-identified part, not the Calvin and Nova part.  Still, I do think the C&N drama was necessary to to give viewers a preview of season two's drama.  As you said, it's a soap.  Even with it's problems and irritations, however, I really hope you don't drop the show.

Edited December 5, 2016 by LydiaMoon1

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

Not me.  I’m all for the discontinuance of black women limiting themselves to black men.  Black women during the 60’s marched, boycotted and had water hoses and dogs turned on them, and they were rewarded for their sacrifices by seeing it become the norm for successful black men to marry non-black women and withdraw their money from the BC and for black men in general to trash the image of black women in entertainment, in music (especially rap) and all over social media.  So I’m just fine with Calvin just like he is.  The BC has more than demonstrated that they’re going to give BW sh*t no matter what we do, so go ahead and taste the rainbow.

So am I, all for it.
So when I said they should have made Calvin black, it was from the frame of mind that if this is where Ava was going to go she could have spared me this bullshit. I don't want to see the black woman have to continue to deal with this hypocritical shit when dating/marrying non-black men.  And I sure as hell don't want to support it in the television programming I choose to watch, so I'm not sure how long I'll be sticking around. Then you go and make him married with kids, just one thing after another to screw over the one female black character who has devoted her time to causes to uplift the black community and particularly the black men in it, and she's getting spat on. If Ava is trying to send some message that you need to stick with your "own" if you're a black woman, then she's lost me before she's even begun. 

[ribboninthesky1]

5 hours ago, LydiaMoon1 said:

The above has ALWAYS bothered me, but Nova’s SJW storyline mainly bothered me for one very specific reason.  To me, social justice is a mirage that keeps people busy, but not productive. 

Take Nova for an example.  She ran around visiting jails and hospital and writing articles…and  for what?  Yes, it was nice that Nova was able to help get Too Sweet’s charges dropped (with an able assist from Calvin), but the system is still intact.  If that drug dealer and Too Sweet are pulled over by the cops on their way to Alabama, Too Sweet can easily be right back in the same situation (or worse) all over again.  It’s like Charley and RA’s argument regarding the mill.  RA was probably right.  Earnest probably did envision RA living on that land the same way he did, eking out a living on that farm year after year.  They consider that a win.  Charley, OTOH, is thinking in terms of economic empowerment.  RA was right when he told her that building an empire was her dream.  I’m with Charley.  If you truly want to change your circumstances, you have to begin with a strong economic base and you must build a solid infrastructure.  Queen Sugar is infrastructure.

Basically, I look at it this way: Social Justice = give a man a fish. Sure, he’ll eat today, but he’ll be hungry again tomorrow.  Economic Empowerment = teach a man to fish.  He’ll never be hungry again.

Good points, especially the bolded. I feel that Nova, and perhaps because she's not a character from the book, suffered a lot in characterization because Ava and team were using her as a cipher for the current social climate and what's hot on Black Twitter.  I'm conflicted about that because, while it's not wrong to incorporate it into storytelling, I wasn't interested in that angle on this show.  The issues with the farm were more relevant and served the same purpose.  There was also an element of magical realism with Nova that felt tonally off to me.

Also, hot as Nova and Calvin are, we barely saw them interact this season.  The actors made the most of their time on screen, which is what saves the pairing for me. But I am curious to see what they will do with them next season.  As for their drama, none of the women on this show get to be happy in their romantic relationships.     

[LydiaMoon1]

2 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

So am I, all for it.
So when I said they should have made Calvin black, it was from the frame of mind that if this is where Ava was going to go she could have spared me this bullshit. I don't want to see the black woman have to continue to deal with this hypocritical shit when dating/marrying non-black men.

You know, I'm the opposite. Since BM are forever dating out and no one says a word to them but act like a BW is Gozer the Destroyer when she chooses to date someone other than a BM, I hope the show goes all in on Nova.  I want them to put that hypocrisy right up there onscreen for everyone to see. Sometimes you can't see how unfairly you're being treated until you see how unfairly you're being treated.  Of course, I understand that not everyone wants to go the that extreme.  Still, I hope you don't drop the show. I enjoy this discussion board and don't want to lose anybody.

Edited December 5, 2016 by LydiaMoon1

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

You know, I'm the opposite. Since BM are forever dating out and no one says a word to them but act like a BW is Gozer the Destroyer when she chooses to date someone other than a BM, I hope the show goes all in on Nova.  I want them to put that hypocrisy right up there onscreen for everyone to see. Sometimes you can't see how unfairly you're being treated until you see how unfairly you're being treated.  Of course, I understand that not everyone wants to go the that extreme.  Still, I hope you don't drop the show. I enjoy this discussion board and don't want to lose anybody.

If this is where she's going complete with actually characters pointing out the hypocrisy, then I'm fine with it. And I'm not going to stop watching because overall it's good work despite how annoyed I am. It's still early, and I don't know for sure where this is all going. I want to support women of color like Ava in her field, the OWN network and the actors of color. I was just putting it out there that if this is going where I think it is, I'm not going to be entertained by it. But the whole story line with the mill is the main story IMO and worth staying tuned in for. 

Edited December 6, 2016 by Keepitmoving

[Emily Thrace]

Forget Queen Sugar I want Charley to be Queen of the damn universe she was so fucking awesome tonight. I really hope she and Remy work it out though. I have really come around to him in the last couple episodes. He

 

On 2016-12-05 at 3:00 PM, ribboninthesky1 said:

Good points, especially the bolded. I feel that Nova, and perhaps because she's not a character from the book, suffered a lot in characterization because Ava and team were using her as a cipher for the current social climate and what's hot on Black Twitter.  I'm conflicted about that because, while it's not wrong to incorporate it into storytelling, I wasn't interested in that angle on this show.  The issues with the farm were more relevant and served the same purpose.  There was also an element of magical realism with Nova that felt tonally off to me..     

 

Yeah I think that why I had so many issues with the character at first. Especially wince they were doing a lot of telling with Nova and her activism rather than showing.  (Ie her telling her dealer buddy about the march, but not actually showing the march or her doing any actual organizing for it). That and I'm wary of New Age characters in general because they tend to appropriate Aboriginal traditions so much. (And they fucking do it wrong! So many times shows do that. No your not supposed to burn sage for every damn thing it actually has fairly specific uses. Okay rant over )

I love her and Calvin though its a really beautiful story I just hope it has a good ending.

Without a date on that Letter from Pop RA doesn't have much of a case for getting the land from his sisters. It would take a minute for Charleys lawyer to say the will was written before the letter and that was his actual intent.

[healthnut]

Watched S1 on Hulu this weekend and really enjoyed it for the most part. I love Remy and I hope he and Charley get together in S2, it was too early this season. I actually like Nova and the cop, I'm glad he left his wife, I don't need any more of my strong black women carrying on with white married men (yes that was a shot at Scandal). I agree RA is a man child, I just can't get on his team. 

[jhlipton]

I guess I'm the only one rooting for Darla.

On 12/1/2016 at 1:34 AM, mrsbagnet said:

I was amazed at how quickly Calvin's friend went from gentlemanly flattery to sexual assault. I could see him being pissed at Nova, but to go from anger to ass grabbing was like, damn, really? Totally plausible, but disturbing nonetheless.

That right there should tell Calvin about his "brothers" in blue -- that they are not worth defending.

On 12/1/2016 at 9:09 AM, DearEvette said:

I can't help but think that the guy's reaction to her, once he discovered she was Nova Bordelon is a not-so-sly dig at how out of control irrational and even violent some folks get at a little bit of criticism toward the police.  Because god forbid, someone criticize the police.

Oh, god, yes.  The whole #BlueLivesMatter crap because BLM supporters don't want black men, women and children murdered by cops, so they must be anti-cop.  The march in Dallas that was hit by the sniper was put together by BLM working with the police.

[TobinAlbers]

Finally finished the season with a Hulu binge and they set this up nicely as a lowkey Dallas/Dynasty. It's a definite entry in the primetime soap drama with influences from all its predecessors but with it's own tone and flair.

A dead father that all three kids want to honor and live up to.

A very complicated backstory full of secrets and blood with the Borderlones and Landrys. Some way, some how, SOMEBODY is going to pop up as an heir to both down the line. I wouldn't even be surprised if Darla (a great Sami Jo to RA's Steven) is connected to the Landry's making Blue that mutual heir (not that the Landry's would be inclined to claim him unless Darla dies and her family suddenly wants him). The scene of the trio learning about the bloody history of the Borderlones and Landry's was powerful. It went from just business to very very personal and they're now at full bore hate for that clan.

Charley and Ralph Angel as the heirs vying for the land. Both have valid reasons to be in charge:

Charley with her business acumen and vision can do great things not only for her family but the community but even as her personal connection with the land is awakened, Ralph Angel has lived on that land, worked that land for years and it's under his nails in a way it isn't for Charley. Also while Charley's vision is grand, her means of obtaining it could cost her her soul and turn her into the enemy.

Ralph Angel has a lot of problems; easily influenced, a hothead, takes the easy road among other things, but he is personally invested and connected with the land. Earnest definitely knew the more practical decision would be to leave it to Charley, but he also wanted to give Ralph Angel the chance to step up, grow up, and force him to become his own man and leaving the land to him with all the responsibility just might do that. It also shows RA that ultimately Earnest believed in him no matter what. That's a huge statement that RA now needs to make good not just to show Charley and Nova and Aunt Vi but to show himself and Blue.

It most definitely sucks that Earnest left Charley and Nova out of the picture with the land, and was possibly expecting Charley to run the business while RA ran the land with Nova being the bridge. On one hand it puts a lot of responsibility on the women but you can also look at it as Earnest looking at the big picture of knowing his daughters were strong and capable AND that each of his children have a role to play in the ultimate success of the farm and potentially a dynasty. I think RA was wrong when he said their father wasn't ultimately looking for dynasty, but Charley is trying to move a bit too fast; the dynasty and beating the Landry's can happen but only after the farm gets on its feet.  And that's going to be the push/pull for Season 2 and possibly 3/4/5.

All in all a decent first season that sets up an interesting world with stakes for everyone.