OK...What's Next?

[random chance]

15 hours ago, jhlipton said:

1) If it's from the WaPo or NYT, the rubes won't believe it

2) They DON'T CARE!  Trump has insulted POWs and admitted to sexual assault and like any victim of domestic violence, they excuse his behavior and beg for more.

They're not wrong.  See above.

This really can not be emphasized enough. They don't care. There is no point in trying to change the minds of his supporters, that road is a dead end. Use your time and energy for calling and writing your reps, they still technically work for us. 

[NewDigs]

Rachel Maddow highlighted the power of grassroots movements that have found direction through the Indivisible guide. A Google doc that went viral.

And you really can't go wrong with Charles Blow. Yesterday's column, The Anti-Inauguration  speaks to more resistance.

Sometimes I go to bed feeling so hopeful with positive thoughts informed and bolstered by Ari and Rachel and Chris et al. And sometimes the next morning is like being slapped in the face by a media bent on covering this mess as "Entertainment". Not a lot of in-between, these days.

[izabella]

36 minutes ago, Shannon L. said:

These may be stupid questions, but I've never done any phone calling or writing to representatives before:

1. I live in California:  We have Feinstien and Harris as Senators and my local representatives are democrats.  Would flooding them with phone calls be like preaching to the choir?  Should I wait and see if they say anything about compromising on an issue that I'm against?

2. Do representatives outside my district (but still in CA) care about my phone calls since I'm not one of their constituents?  Or should I call them, too?  (or do they not ask you where you live?)

I don't live in California, but have the same questions! 

Both of our senators are Dems now (yay for Illinois, we rejected our incumbent Republican-lite and sent a female Dem to the Senate!), and my House Rep is also a Dem and has been vocal and speaking out on issues every time Ryan utters some new stupidity).  Do I need to be contacting them regularly since they pretty much get it already, and would any other Senators or Reps care if I contacted them?

[candall]

18 minutes ago, Shannon L. said:

2. Do representatives outside my district (but still in CA) care about my phone calls since I'm not one of their constituents?  Or should I call them, too?  (or do they not ask you where you live?)

Check out that Indivisible Guide.  I thought even the few points mentioned when Maddows was interviewing the author were interesting.  (Petitions?  Enh.  Form letters?  Enh.  And nope, Congresspeople couldn't care less about the opinions of anyone who resides outside their own bailiwicks.)

 

[About your unexpected grill guest, how do those guys shimmy up metal poles anyway?  Tiny suction cups from Amazon?   Parkour?   My winter supply of dog food bags (in the barn) are getting ripped and nibbled, even though they're sitting on a new chest-high shelf of a set of wire shelves that I made sure wasn't close to any wall or solid climbing surface.  I wondered if a deer could be wandering in for a snack . . . but not really.   : (   ]

[izabella]

Rats and mice are wily and can get into anything and climb on anything.  Invest in big plastic storage bins from Target and save your dog food!

[Duke Silver]

This is a long'ish article, and might read as dense to some.  I started to include some quotes, but thought better of it when I noticed this post would likely take up half a page because of them.  Worth reading when you have the time.

[stillshimpy]

Oh boy, it's going to be a long day judging by all the news pieces on what horror the GOP is trying to visit upon our democracy, isn't it?   *waves to absent friends*  We'll try to hold the fort, but if we're all drunk as lairds by the time you get back, you'll know we gave into despair and gin.  I might just skip the despair and hit the gin.  Actually, thank goodness, I have a volunteer shift this afternoon and can do something other than bounce off of the walls, with my anxiety, getting increasingly stranger in my humor.  

Quote

1. I live in California:  We have Feinstien and Harris as Senators and my local representatives are democrats.  Would flooding them with phone calls be like preaching to the choir?  Should I wait and see if they say anything about compromising on an issue that I'm against?

 

 

 

 

 

Call and offer your support via voicemail.  It actually does help.   For the opposition, I will actually call and leave a voicemail supporting their actions when they are trying to get anything decent done and I don't even mention, "Hey, technically dislike most of your viewpoints" and just leave my name, what state I'm a registered voter in (without mentioning party affiliation and if they look it up, I'm actually a registered independent ....which helps since it helps sort of leave it foggy if they give enough of a damn to look) because for the very few Republicans who are fighting back (Lindsay Graham won't have a bridge to stand on after he's done torching everyone he's ever crossed) whereas I don't like his politics, I appreciate that he's trying to be a patriot).  

I have written letters and mailed them to opposing, out of state representatives, but I keep it incredibly civil and simply ask them to reconsider their positions, as the will of the people on this matter is not being upheld.   I have no idea if it does anything, but it at least makes me feel like I'm doing something (see weird frog posts for why I need to keep myself occupied because my anxiety goes through the roof when I'm entirely idle) .  

I do that on the "it might be a waste of my time, but I'm going to do it anyway" because even if this all ends in the ashes of our republic, I figured I'd at least know I tried something, anything".  

Again, others may do things in a different fashion, but the true twerps ....like that lunatic talking about how Jesus got to face his accusers, so why should an anonymous tip-line be part of Ethics investigations?....I never go anywhere near.  They are impervious to facts, uninterested in their duties and are so corrupt it's not even worth the calorie burn getting het up would afford me for all the good it would do. 

I log a new call, send a new email per issue, even for the poor patient souls who keep hearing from me.  I keep those short and supportive.  Elizabeth Warren is trying her damnedest, too, so whenever she's preparing a bill or anything, call and email of support (just what I do, no clue if it's from the "get stuff done" person's handbook or anything).  

I guess I'd rather risk doing too much than too little but I never have seen the point in trying to communicate with people who are clearly unethical.  I also don't nastygram anyone no matter how tempting it might be to give them a piece of my mind because the only thing that holds true is that as soon as people start shouting, no one gets heard above the din so there's no point.  

Then lastly, as hard as it is to believe, I can actually edit things down to a concise form....I just suck at it as a practice....so I try to keep it brief and to the point.  

Hope that helps.  We're into the weeds here, so whenever an important bill comes up,  I'll place a support call to whoever is supporting it, regardless of where that person was elected.   

ETA:

Quote

 Ah, yes.....I discovered that a few years ago when I uncovered the barbecue for our first grilled meal after a long winter only to see a rat staring back at me.  I don't blame him--it was a nice home--sheltered from wind and rain, little bits of food, lots of room....In all honesty, he was looking at me with curiosity and I feel a little bad about scaring the hell out of him, but maybe if he'd asked first  :)

 

 

 

Yeah, there's something about the sensation that "something that should not be blinking, just blinked at me...HOLY GONZO! What the hell?!" of that unexpected moment of finding something that shouldn't be there.  In my case, the extended dance had to do with....I had no idea if that rat could get into the car with me...and I was very much against that concept but abandoing my car and running swiftly away seemed a bad plan, so rat was my copilot and all that.  Then I did the appropriate "Aaaaiiiiieeeee" dance. 

Did you end up yelling, "Honey? Heat up the broiler instead!!" 

Edited January 6, 2017 by stillshimpy

[possibilities]

4 hours ago, Chicken Wing said:

Seventy-five percent of the country disagrees with what Congress is doing right now. When are these bozos on the hill going to realize that being in control of Washington (holding the majority in both chambers and the White House) does not constitute a mandate to do whatever you want? Just because "the people" voted you in doesn't mean they actually agree with what you want to do; many of them voted for you purely on principle but actually hope you don't do what you said you'd do.

Honestly, I can't blame them for being a little bit confused about this. I certainly am. It's not like they were hiding their plans. So why did people vote for them, despite disagreeing? Why would people want you to not do what you promised? I don't think being voted in makes it ok to do whatever the hell you want, but at the same time, if you campaign on something, I don't think it's entirely crazy to think that if people vote for you, that they want you to do what you said you'd do.

Right now, there doesn't seem to be any rational basis for anything going on with the Republican base or the people they voted for. So maybe that's the answer: they voted because they resonated to the irrationality? And the hate. So now that they're in power, they are directing the irrationality and hatred toward each other? It's confounding. Has this ever happened before, that someone campaigned on something, won, and immediately their base asked them to not do what they promised?

2 hours ago, Shannon L. said:

1. I live in California:  We have Feinstien and Harris as Senators and my local representatives are democrats.  Would flooding them with phone calls be like preaching to the choir?  Should I wait and see if they say anything about compromising on an issue that I'm against?

2. Do representatives outside my district (but still in CA) care about my phone calls since I'm not one of their constituents?  Or should I call them, too?  (or do they not ask you where you live?)

The Indivisible guide says that if your elected people agree with you, you can support them by calling to thank them for doing what you want-- this helps them be bolder and not back down. They also say that it does not help to call people who are outside your district, but you can support organizations that are opposing them or working on the issues you are concerned about.

[DeLurker]

16 minutes ago, possibilities said:

The Indivisible guide says that if your elected people agree with you, you can support them by calling to thank them for doing what you want-- this helps them be bolder and not back down. They also say that it does not help to call people who are outside your district, but you can support organizations that are opposing them or working on the issues you are concerned about.

I haven't read the guide so don't know if this is addressed, but if an elected representative has bigger ambitions I would think they might care a bit about how their position plays outside their current district.

[Bastet]

5 hours ago, Shannon L. said:

1. I live in California:  We have Feinstien and Harris as Senators and my local representatives are democrats.  Would flooding them with phone calls be like preaching to the choir?  Should I wait and see if they say anything about compromising on an issue that I'm against?

Call to thank them when they vote the right way!  We tend to take for granted that they will, because they usually do, but it's important to make clear that we appreciate them working in our best interests; the opposition makes sure to complain, and it's not good if the only constituent feedback that gets registered is negative.  I confess to being somewhat lazy about this in the past, but I am going to step up my game.  I thanked Feinstein and Harris for their votes against this week's ACA repeal effort.

[BBDi]

10 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Call to thank them when they vote the right way!  We tend to take for granted that they will, because they usually do, but it's important to make clear that we appreciate them working in our best interests; the opposition makes sure to complain, and it's not good if the only constituent feedback that gets registered is negative.  I confess to being somewhat lazy about this in the past, but I am going to step up my game.  I thanked Feinstein and Harris for their votes against this week's ACA repeal effort.

That kind of support also gives them something quantifiable that they can use politically or with the media; e.g., the number of supportive vs negative calls they got. I'm sure it is helpful in a number of ways. 

[Bastet]

13 minutes ago, BBDi said:

That kind of support also gives them something quantifiable that they can use politically or with the media; e.g., the number of supportive vs negative calls they got. I'm sure it is helpful in a number of ways. 

Exactly; that's what I meant by not allowing the calls/letters/etc. of opposition to be the only constituent feedback registered.  It's human nature to be more likely to take the time to contact a representative, company, etc. with negative feedback than with positive.  So it's important to be aware of that and, especially on major hot-button issues that attract a lot of media attention, take a moment to contact our representatives when they vote the way we wanted them to, so that positive feedback can be tallied and reported.

[possibilities]

3 hours ago, DeLurker said:

I haven't read the guide so don't know if this is addressed, but if an elected representative has bigger ambitions I would think they might care a bit about how their position plays outside their current district.

I would just read it. It's not that long, and it explains why it makes the recommendations it does, so you can decide for yourself whether you think their advice is credible.

Very few people in Congress are going to ever get higher office than what they already have, so the idea that they may have ambitions that require national approval is not really the most pressing issue for many of them, and definitely not in the moment. DURING a national campaign they might be engaged in, sure. But they are not focused on that now, and even the ones who secretly think they might run for higher office in the future are more interested in staying in their current office than anything they might do in a year or two or 4 or whenever.

I personally don't see any harm in writing to them anyway, but if your energy is limited, I think it's about making priorities and focusing on what will be most effective, to see results before you burn out.

----

Upthread there was some discussion of how coal jobs aren't coming back, and whether computer jobs are being considered not a respectable replacement, and other issues about a changing economy and needing to be realistic about what kind of jobs are possible.

I want to comment on that, because I think it's very important in terms of actually solving economic problems and also winning elections.

I agree coal jobs aren't coming back. I'm glad of it. But honestly, I don't think most people who have been working in the coal industry are necessarily suited to computer jobs, any more than I think most computer professionals would take to suddenly being sent to work in the coal mines or on a factory assembly line or some other blue collar job they have no experience with. It's just not the kind of switch most people are capable of doing, switching in midlife from not just one career to another but one entire set of physical and mental skills to the other.

We have to all learn to adapt and retrain but it's not as simple as just having a can-do spirit and doing whatever's offered. People's bodies and minds develop along the paths they are both naturally talented in and also groomed for starting at a young age. When it's been going on for generations, it's a ROUGH transition. I think policymakers need to be sensitive to that and figure out what's realistic.

We need to start with education reform, so that kids are learning these new economy skills from the get go. It is simply not so easy to take adults and suddenly re-direct them into things they may simply not have the skills to do or the ability to develop facility with later in life.

It's just not so easy to do whatever is most hire-able.  A friend of mine went back to school in her 40s after decades in retail management and food service industry positions (she had owned her own wholesale business, worked as a the manager of a grocery store, and also done catering and other food-oriented jobs). The job training people put her in a computer-oriented program because there were jobs around for that in the local economy, and my friend was simply a total failure at it. She worked hard at it but it was obvious she had zero aptitude for it and she was not getting any better over time.

She later went back to school and got a PhD in another field, so it's not like she wasn't smart, willing, and able in other areas. But she just did not have the right kind of brain for CAD or any other of the fields the job placement people thought would get her back into the workforce quickly. I can't even imagine what would have happened if they'd tried to put her in a coal mine. She was not going to suddenly become good at that either, even if she tried really hard.

How many people do you know who haven't done manual labor all their lives would be able to do it starting in middle age, without a total physical breakdown? And by the same token, why would we think people who have done manual labor all their lives could suddenly switch to an office job?

I think when people are rejecting the idea of a computer job, or yearning for the return of coal or manufacturing, they aren't just being stubborn. Their identities have been formed around the skills they  have, just like how a lot of people who do white collar jobs feel pride in those skills and feel degraded by being asked to do manual lavor. I disagree with that idea, but it's just as common for people to think that way in one direction as the other.

Besides the identity issue, people who resist change are afraid they can't do the new jobs, may well be right that they are not going to be any good at them, and are used to being mocked and blamed as failures, lazy, stupid, backwards, etc. They don't believe the promises of retraining because they don't really think it's going to work, and it's kind of a "I'll believe it when I see it" kind of thing. If you can't easily transfer from desk work to manual labor, why do we think you can easily transfer from manual to desk? People develop in the direction they've been traveling, and it's not always possible to learn a totally new way of functioning later on. Some can do it. Most can't.

Whether the old way is coming back or not, and whether or not the rejection of new ideas is defensive fear or actually based on wisdom, it's not totally crazy to imagine that people in general are not going to be enthusiastic about a complete reversal of their way of life, especially when the new way is completely unfamiliar, being forced on them by circumstances out of their control, is being touted by people who come from outside, are already comfortable with the stuff they're recommending and are clearly not suited to the things they're saying to leave behind. It's like: what do they know about my needs or abilities? Why should I trust that person's ideas? If people like that have no experience of comfort with the "dying" way of life, and when your lives are already full of disappointment and hardship, it's a lot to ask that trust be put in the "winners of the new economy" who make pronouncements from outside. Even if you know your way is disappearing, it's hard.

So, no, we aren't going to be able to bring back coal or blacksmithing. But rather than laugh at the panic of people displaced by that, consider how your average office worker would feel if told office jobs are over and it's time to go to the steel mills, stop being such an idiot and thinking we can survive on nostalgia alone, and "good riddance to those dirty dying industries anyway!"

If the tables were turned, would you consider voting for someone who promised to revive a dying computer industry or bring back "white collar jobs of yore"? You might think it was an empty promise, but that at least they understood what you were feeling and would be sympathetic to your problems when you couldn't hack it in the factory or the mine.

Now, Hillary had a plan to bring new jobs to coal country, and I believe they were manufacturing and other blue collar jobs in new energy industries. So I still think she would have been better for that sector than the jerk who actually got the win. But as far as the "irrational wish for a return to the way it was" is concerned, I think those feelings are not mockable, they're rational and can best be addressed by sympathy and policy approaches that help rather than demean the people who express them. But part of that means winning people's trust, and building up their confidence that they can do what's being asked, and that the promises will be kept and are well-designed so they can actually succeed.

I think involving the impacted communities in the process, taking the time to explain things and take feedback and be a presence on the ground, not swooping in and dictating it from an Ivory Tower, is the way to win that trust and support and confidence and the votes to make it happen. Showing you get it, not only making your suggestion for the next thing, but showing you understand the past and speak their language and are comfortable with who they are, is what wins people over. It's a marriage of both the intellectual/factual stuff (this is my plan) and the emotional/comfort stuff (you can trust me because we are the same or I express what you are thinking) that bridges the gap.

I have seen plenty of middle class people act distrustful of anyone who doesn't dress and speak a certain way, and the same goes in the other direction.

I think it's possible to win people over, even if you're not like them, by spending time getting to know each other and listening and winning trust over time. We don't all have to be the same. But we have to understand each other and convey that understanding on terms that the other will receive, if we want to build consensus or secure co-operation.

Edited January 6, 2017 by possibilities

[SpencerHawk]

And they have to provide the services to be able to train them for another field. That also costs money. So some might not be able to access it.

[stormy]

Elizabeth Warren says she'll be running in 2018 for her second term.  It's been reported on and off that former Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling is thinking of running against her.  That should be good for some laughs.

[sistermagpie]

4 minutes ago, possibilities said:

But they are not focused on that now, and even the ones who secretly think they might run for higher office in the future are more interested in staying in their current office than anything they might do in a year or two or 4 or whenever.

Also even if they are interested it's unlikely they're thinking they're going to appeal to one set of voters on the state level and then when they go national start appealing to people who feel differently. They'd probably just reasonably assume that people who like a policy in their own state will like the same policies elsewhere.

6 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I think when people are rejecting the idea of a computer job, or yearning for the return of coal or manufacturing, they aren't just being stubborn. Their identities have been formed around the skills they  have, just like how a lot of people who do white collar jobs feel pride in those skills and feel degraded by being asked to do manual lavor. I disagree with that idea, but it's just as common for people to think that way in one direction as the other.

I had brought up that argument and I agree with this--but I should clarify that this was just another thing that was specious about the argument of the guy on TV. Because presumably the new jobs these people would be trained for as per HRC's ideas would not be about suddenly being the IT guy. They were about working in an industry that provided a different type of energy. So yes, new training, but not completely unrelated to what they were doing before, not learning new manual/intellectual skills that were wildly different.

The guy saying there was "no dignity in computers" was just playing into the anti-intellectual/liberal bias by implying that whatever job liberals wanted to give you would be something a liberal would do--something that left you with lily white hands. (He's not saying outright that they wouldn't be able to do it but the mere mention of computers I think is meant to create that fear.) The fact that it would be unlikely a coal miner would transfer to a job in computer science wasn't even really on the table.

I was actually thinking of it today because there was another article in the NYT about how we need to look past the stereotype of people being bigoted and understand where they're coming from. Unfortunately it was still hard to get around the bigotry that was front and center--wherever it came from. One of the points was that rural people believe that liberals and people in cities do no work, they just get money from hardworking rural people to subsidize them. It started with two young guys who were welders going to work by saying, "Well, let the liberals sleep in. We've got work to do."

It seems relevant because I think there's a common thread there. It's about how liberals=modern and modern = not real work. And that kind of thinking, so the article pointed out, also makes them distrustful of any attempt at better education that would make them, as children, less distrustful. Because education tended to lead kids away from these areas. Outsiders see education as an important thing that will make their lives better. They see it as a threat.

So in general I do totally agree--and what's frustration is I think a lot of people do have compassion for the actual real problems people are facing. There's nothing unreasonable about not knowing what to do when facing a dying economy. It was just that it was hard to know how to get through the attitudes that rejected a lot of solutions to this sort of thing--including, it should be said, constantly voting for Republican state governments that didn't provide services that people needed. Services they then saw people in cities getting and decided those city people were getting their services. Even when they were looking at cities in blue states. It seems like it keeps creating this cycle where people don't get the help they need, then it becomes a point of pride to not take help while also resenting those who get help.

There was also a comment on the article I thought was really interesting in response to the point that to poor white people who were struggling to get by "white privilege" had no meaning, which further alienated them from politicians talking about racial issues. But someone pointed out that while the phrase might not mean anything, the very fact that they felt they'd been robbed because their path to a middle class life had disappeared (robbed by certain urban people, in fact) showed that the concept was right there. Non-white Americans have fewer expectations of that sort of thing.

[Ms.Moon]

Quote

I think when people are rejecting the idea of a computer job, or yearning for the return of coal or manufacturing, they aren't just being stubborn. Their identities have been formed around the skills they  have, just like how a lot of people who do white collar jobs feel pride in those skills and feel degraded by being asked to do manual lavor. I disagree with that idea, but it's just as common for people to think that way in one direction as the other.

Besides the identity issue, people who resist change are afraid they can't do the new jobs, may well be right that they are not going to be any good at them, and are used to being mocked and blamed as failures, lazy, stupid, backwards, etc. They don't believe the promises of retraining because they don't really think it's going to work, and it's kind of a "I'll believe it when I see it" kind of thing. If you can't easily transfer from desk work to manual labor, why do we think you can easily transfer from manual to desk? People develop in the direction they've been traveling, and it's not always possible to learn a totally new way of functioning later on. Some can do it. Most can't.

The thing is that they will HAVE TO make a change and it is not a matter of wanting to learn but it is a matter of needing to learn.  My mother has been cooking for over 40 years food service has been her entire career, from making wedding cakes, catering parties and cooking full time in a kitchen.  My mother went back to school last year and got her GED, got certified to do X-Rays, phlebotomy and nurse's aide she did it because she HAD TO she did well actually and is in the process of transitioning jobs it is very difficult to do my mom was awesome at what she did and she's moved into another field because that's where the work is.  I am sorry for blue collar white men who do coal mining jobs now but that is currently not the future and they have to give up this idea of the world belonging only to them.  The world is leaving them behind because they cannot change, and if they cannot change with it then they deserve to be left behind.  

I have a little empathy for them but only a little there are blue collar jobs that are manual labor jobs that need to be done here in the United States, there is an entire energy grid that needs to be upgraded, we as a country need to work on our energy independence solar, wind farms, and other forms of green energy that need to be built, and maintained which can help make an impact and bring jobs into these areas everyone needs power but their minds are stuck on coal because that's what dad and grandad did, coal also killed them but they don't think about that.  

[Hooper]

39 minutes ago, stormy said:

It's been reported on and off that former Red Sox pitcher Curt Schilling is thinking of running against her [E. Warren].  That should be good for some laughs.

Just remember that's what we all said when a certain orange gas bag descended on an escalator and declared he was (har! har!) going to run for president.  Never forget.

[Padma]

Robert Reich posted a "First 100 Days Resistance Agenda"  http://robertreich.org/

[possibilities]

19 minutes ago, Hooper said:

Just remember that's what we all said when a certain orange gas bag descended on an escalator and declared he was (har! har!) going to run for president.  Never forget.

So true. I live in Massachusetts, and some of the people we have elected have been shockingly bad. We are often thought of as the bluest of blue states, but we currently (and often) have a Republican governor and our previous senator, Scott Brown, was a Republican who drove a pick up truck, posed nude, and was red as hell. Warren is popular here, but we can't take her seat for granted.

[MulletorHater]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

I think involving the impacted communities in the process, taking the time to explain things and take feedback and be a presence on the ground, not swooping in and dictating it from an Ivory Tower, is the way to win that trust and support and confidence and the votes to make it happen. Showing you get it, not only making your suggestion for the next thing, but showing you understand the past and speak their language and are comfortable with who they are, is what wins people over. It's a marriage of both the intellectual/factual stuff (this is my plan) and the emotional/comfort stuff (you can trust me because we are the same or I express what you are thinking) that bridges the gap.

I have seen plenty of middle class people act distrustful of anyone who doesn't dress and speak a certain way, and the same goes in the other direction.

I think it's possible to win people over, even if you're not like them, by spending time getting to know each other and listening and winning trust over time. We don't all have to be the same. But we have to understand each other and convey that understanding on terms that the other will receive, if we want to build consensus or secure co-operation.

Possibilities, thank you for your very thoughtful post.  The New York Times published yet another op-ed piece today, "Why Rural America Voted for Trump."

I totally get what you're saying and there was a time when I would have--and did--try the very things you suggested.  And, sometimes I had varying degrees of success.  A while back I mentioned the woman who told me straight to my face that she hated that [expletive omitted] Obama so much that she would rather have her son die of his chronic illness than to accept Obamacare.  What was I suppose to say to that other than "fuck" and "you?"  I'm just sorry for her son.

So, let me just say this as tactfully as possible:  Frankly, I'm exhausted.  Tired, frustrated--and sick and tired of being sick and tired.  And, I'm not the only person of color who has felt this way.  I'm tired of being the one who has to always understand how others must be feeling and being asked to adapt my behavior and thought processes accordingly.  For years, people like me were told that we should get an education, become productive members of society, and pull ourselves up by our bootstraps.  A lot of us have done that.  In fact, we have an outgoing President and First Lady who have also done that.  And, the people cited in that article resent it.  They resent us "flaunting" our intelligence and the trappings of our success.  But, they have no problem with people like the Bushes and the Drumpfs of the world doing just that and more.  Because, you know--it's expected and acceptable when they do it.  These voters have been fed a steady diet of hate from various sources--a diet that causes them to demonize people like me.  Just because I vote a certain way, I have my faith and patriotism diminished and am told that I'm not a "real American" because I live in a place like Washington, D.C.

I'm done trying to understand people who despise me, who think I'm uppity because I speak proper English, and who think my husband and I are "out of order" because we're ambitious and enterprising.  How do I begin at this point to try to effectively communicate with people like this when we don't even live in the same reality?  By way of example, a certain segment of the population actually believed that Hillary Clinton was running a child sex ring out of a pizza parlor here.  An even larger segment have believed for years that President Obama is a Muslim, wasn't born in the United States and sympathizes with terrorists.  They believe that Michelle Obama hates White people and hates America.  Some believe that liberals are smug, lazy eggheads who are godless.  They believe people like me are "dependent," which is code for lazy welfare queens and baby-producing young bucks.  They believe they work hard while we in the cities live on the dole.  Never mind that so-called blue states support the red states through our taxes.  

At one time I would have felt their pain.  But, they are not the only people who feel alienated and left behind and have seen their retirement savings dwindle.  I'm sorry that their jobs no longer exist, but guess what?  Some of us have had generations of parents and grandparents who were aboard the last-hired-first-fired train.  And, I would bet dollars to donuts that those same rural voters would have had absolutely no sympathy for them whatsoever.  Just so long as they could look down on those "other" people.  They preach about personal responsibility but take virtually no responsibility for the choices they made.  Instead, they choose to blame boogeymen, i.e. President Obama, those brown people, the "illegals," women who don't know their place, etc.

So, yes--I'm exhausted by nearly 8 years of effort in trying to get certain people to understand that just because I wanted a piece of the pie, too, didn't mean I was trying to take something from them.  I'm tired of the alternate reality they choose (the operative word) to live in.  I'm done trying to get folks to understand that I also believe in hard work, faith, and family.  We have a president who spent years listening to the people like the ones described in the article.  Not only did he listen, but he tried his best to come up with workable solutions to address their issues.  He understood that the loss of those jobs is a global issue and that they were gone for good.  He tried to make healthcare affordable for all; to institute a jobs bill to rebuild our infrastructure to put people back to work; to make community college affordable for all so that those left behind could get marketable skills to compete in the new job market; to come up with new and innovative sources of energy.  He understood that this would be a tough sell.  His biggest mistake?  He foolishly believed that the people who didn't vote for him loved this country more than they hated him.   And, yet he did all this only to be angrily rebuffed and obstructed at every turn.  

[EyewatchTV211]

[SpencerHawk]

2 hours ago, Padma said:

Robert Reich posted a "First 100 Days Resistance Agenda"  http://robertreich.org/

I hope he's able to keep things up!

[EyewatchTV211]

[BBDi]

You guys.  I just read the post from the moderators pinned above regarding shutting down the forum (though posts will be archived).  

I just want to say that I really love all. Selfishly speaking, you have saved my sanity over these last few weeks. 

If anyone has suggestions for an alternate meeting place, please post it or PM me if you don't mind. 

Truly, thank you all so much. 

[SpencerHawk]

6 minutes ago, BBDi said:

You guys.  I just read the post from the moderators pinned above regarding shutting down the forum (though posts will be archived).  

I just want to say that I really love all. Selfishly speaking, you have saved my sanity over these last few weeks. 

If anyone has suggestions for an alternate meeting place, please post it or PM me if you don't mind. 

Truly, thank you all so much. 

Definitely. This board is far from perfect, but I'm going to miss it. For the good that came from it. Both user wise and information wise. You guys are pretty decent, and I hope to see all of you on the other parts of the forums.

Edited January 7, 2017 by SpencerHawk

[Bastet]

I, too, am going to miss this forum.  I talk about all this stuff with my friends and colleagues, but it was nice to also have a wider circle of people to discuss - and commiserate - with.  And there have been many a time when it was someone here, not someone in my real life, who made me laugh when nothing else could, rekindled that spark of hope that was just about extinguished for the day, etc.  So thank you.

[Padma]

6 minutes ago, BBDi said:

You guys.  I just read the post from the moderators pinned above regarding shutting down the forum (though posts will be archived).  

I just want to say that I really love all. Selfishly speaking, you have saved my sanity over these last few weeks. 

If anyone has suggestions for an alternate meeting place, please post it or PM me if you don't mind. 

Truly, thank you all so much. 

I just saw that, too!  I can understand that moderating like that would be a big drain on time and energy, but I'm kind of surprised. I didn't realize it was a problem--except for a very occasional (imo intentional) provocateur showing up and getting, maybe, too much response until being reminded.  What a shame.

Anyway, I want to also say a big THANK YOU to all of you.  This has been a sanity saver and also so informative with so many different points of view and so many great resources that I'd never have known about otherwise (esp. not being on Twitter!)

Maybe we can still carry on elsewhere because it's going to get harder, not easier, in two weeks.

Not sure when the final "curtain" is scheduled for, but thank you all (including the mods for responding to the need when they did and letting it keep going as it has--much appreciated.)

[BBDi]

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

So true. I live in Massachusetts, and some of the people we have elected have been shockingly bad. We are often thought of as the bluest of blue states, but we currently (and often) have a Republican governor and our previous senator, Scott Brown, was a Republican who drove a pick up truck, posed nude, and was red as hell. Warren is popular here, but we can't take her seat for granted.

I canvassed for Elizabeth Warren - spent every weekend for about 3 months knocking on doors. And I will gladly do it again. I consider it one of the best uses I've ever made of my time and energy, and it made me feel so much less helpless about our political process. 

I did the same for Ed Markey, with less enthusiasm but an understanding that his senate seat was just as important as hers. 

At the same time, we worked on behalf of candidates for state offices. 

Very inspiring to see a bunch of young    folks, middle -aged, and old folks pounding the pavement together. I realized it was a nice little perk of having grown-ass kids that I could spend my weekends doing this. 

Next week I'll be getting back in touch with my local democrats to see what I can do. 

Edited January 7, 2017 by BBDi

[possibilities]

Before the forum is shut down, I just wanted to thank you all.

Also, re my most recent post, I appreciate the reasons why people are fed up and I apologize if I came off pie in the sky or preachy--especially to those who are targeted by the bigotry and still tried, that's heroic and I didn't mean to come across as chiding you for being done. I wish we had more time to talk about this and many other things!

Love to you all.

[Pixel]

I have really enjoyed all of you! I hope to see you around other forums. You all really saved my sanity. Thank you. 

[PatsyandEddie]

I sincerely want to wish you all the best of luck with those new government. Trying times are ahead for your country and it's people along with America's allies and trading partners. Please phone,write,email or whatever it takes to fight these greedy, selfish thugs who have unfortunately taken control.  Stay safe and maintain a sense of hope. 

[Duke Silver]

We've seen several anecdotes describing this, but I still SMDH.  I'll never not SMDH.

[SpencerHawk]

8 minutes ago, Duke Silver said:

We've seen several anecdotes describing this, but I still SMDH.  I'll never not SMDH.

It's called they want to do things state by state.

[Duke Silver]

Yeah, that's not what I call it.

[fastiller]

Hey, CE&P forum family - I also hope to see you guys around p.tv. This has been a great thread and I'very enjoyed the interaction.  Keep up the fight all.  That's what's next.

Also - watching a bit of  The West Wing now and makes me think of this thread: what's next?!

[random chance]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

Before the forum is shut down, I just wanted to thank you all.

Also, re my most recent post, I appreciate the reasons why people are fed up and I apologize if I came off pie in the sky or preachy--especially to those who are targeted by the bigotry and still tried, that's heroic and I didn't mean to come across as chiding you for being done. I wish we had more time to talk about this and many other things!

Love to you all.

 

58 minutes ago, Pixel said:

I have really enjoyed all of you! I hope to see you around other forums. You all really saved my sanity. Thank you. 

What did I miss, is this being shut down?

[Chicken Wing]

Wow, I can't believe we have to say goodbye to this forum. It's truly been my therapy throughout this whole situation. I also want to thank all of you for sharing your thoughts and being a sounding board for all of us to share, to vent and discuss and commiserate and survive.

[Pixel]

At the risk of being creepy, I am now following those of you who allow it. I don't want to forget my new buddies. 

[ruby24]

Noooo, the forum is shutting down? I will miss this place. A lot.

[MulletorHater]

Nothing creepy about it at all.  You all have helped me get through a very tough time and I look forward to continuing to post with you elsewhere.

My love and best wishes to you all!

[Bastet]

6 minutes ago, random chance said:

What did I miss, is this being shut down?

Yes, per this post that was just pinned a little while ago.

[NewDigs]

I really hurt.

What a crew!

Thanks.

[random chance]

NOOOOoooooo!  How am I going to get through the Orange Menace unpresidency without y'all? Is anybody starting an independent forum, I mean it's just the one thread it wouldn't have to be a big deal? Just hosted somewhere else? Invision still has a free option, right? Well damn.

[ruby24]

Yes, is there any way we can still keep in touch with each other?

[Pixel]

If anyone does, let me know. Y'all are keeping me informed better than Twitchy!

[catrox14]

Im sorry to read this forum is closing.  It as been a wonderful source of support and information. I wish you all sanity and safety!

[NewDigs]

Indivisible!

[ruby24]

This forum has made me feel much less alone over the last few months. Which is important considering the horrors we're facing soon.

[Pixel]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Im sorry to read this forum is closing.  It as been a wonderful source of support and information. I wish you all sanity and safety!

@catrox14, I see you all the time over at Supenatural. I just don't post much there. I'm happy to have interacted with you more thanks to this forum.