OK...What's Next?

[Padma]

2 hours ago, callmebetty said:

There are people who believe the moon landing was faked and other major events. So when does the Constitution isn't real start to come into play? Are people going to start saying: How can you prove it's that old? well thats just scientists talking they also lie about the environment and global warming so I don't know that any of that is real. So this Constitution that's not real either, Obama and Hillary just wrote it last year, its true and if it's not prove it to me?

I think we got there last week when Trump broke out his view that "When the president does it, it isn't illegal" and there was little push back--nor, per usual, is anyone still talking about it.

It's getting to be like a new Dark Ages, but we have to keep pushing for facts and against ignorance, no matter how widely and easily spread.

[ruby24]

48 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

I am born and raised in Chicago but recently had to relocate to a republican part of Washington state. But isn't the only real blue part of Minnesota St. Paul-Minneapolis. Although Washington goes blue usually, I can tell you it wouldn't if Seattle and Tacoma were not here.

 

(I miss home so much.)

Yeah, the eastern half of WA is the other half of Idaho, basically.

But luckily, Seattle-Tacoma is where all the people live, so that's what counts. Like it should on the national level with the popular vote. I can't handle these claims that whole sections of the country should be written off, because what, they have too many people there? That's just too bad, everyone's vote should count equally.

[Enigma X]

I got a reprieve. The "trip" begins tomorrow not today.

[izabella]

1 hour ago, Enigma X said:

I am born and raised in Chicago but recently had to relocate to a republican part of Washington state. But isn't the only real blue part of Minnesota St. Paul-Minneapolis. Although Washington goes blue usually, I can tell you it wouldn't if Seattle and Tacoma were not here.

 

(I miss home so much.)

I moved to San Francisco in 2000 and lived there for 7 years, and was surprised during a road trip to visit Lassen Volcanic Park in Northern Cali, and then up to Crater Lake in Oregon...redder than reddest Southern state.  I honestly didn't know back then that California was blue mostly along the ocean and mostly concentrated in the cities. 

[Grommet]

^^Good luck!

Possibly OT, but what the hell happened to Chris Cillizza? He was one of my TV/WaPo boyfriends before the election and now he's a shill for Trump. I'm almost as upset as when I found out Tom Selleck is a conservative. (Say it ain't so, Magnum!)

[AntiBeeSpray]

3 minutes ago, Grommet said:

^^Good luck!

Possibly OT, but what the hell happened to Chris Cillizza? He was one of my TV/WaPo boyfriends before the election and now he's a shill for Trump. I'm almost as upset as when I found out Tom Selleck is a conservative. (Say it ain't so, Magnum!)

Well at least Tom Selleck didn't vote for Drumpf. He voted for someone else instead. Heard about during his recent visit to the View. So at least there's that.

Source: cbsnews.com

[potatoradio]

However much Wisconsin makes me sad these days, there are still plenty of good people: Penzey's spices CEO speaks out against Trump's racism

And let's keep these Trumpgrets out there: Trump voter unhappy with treasury secretary pick.  

The Tubby voter I know voted for "change" and a belief that he "didn't mean everything he said during the campaign." Also, because Hillary. So, I wonder how bad things have to be before she'll decide to "change" again. She was an Obama voter, so I think she's someone who just gets this idea that "change is needed." Will she decide for change after 2 years or 4 or stick it out the whole 8 defending her choice? 

I volunteer with the Tubby supporter and it's definitely made things far less genuine and friendly between her and the rest of us on her crew (the rest of us hate Tubby). I was talking with another volunteer about what we were going to do and Tubby supporter came into the room and the two of us just shut right up. Just a tad awkward and divisive and high schoolish, but I can tell she doesn't want to talk about her vote. So, I won't push her directly...yet. Let her see how concerned her crew is about this "change" she wanted. Let her see us talking about resistance and education and plans and fear and anger. She wants to start a conversation with us, by all means....

[bittersweet4149]

11 hours ago, Duke Silver said:

Trying to sincerely engage a Trump supporter has been an utter waste of time every time I've tried.  I have since given up.  I can only hear "STFU, quit whining.  We won. #MAGA.  Locker her up!!" so many times as a rebuttal.

This! It's like Charlie Sheen bit them on the ass, and now all they can say is "Winning!" Why do so many of them get defensive and resort to name calling when sincerely asked to explain why they believe he'll do a good job? 

Good luck, @Enigma X. Please keep us posted.

[Duke Silver]

Not sure where else to put this as I don't consider Wikileaks to be part of the media...

 

Suspected Russian interference in elections around the world is spreading

[Duke Silver]

FFS I wish there was a way to get Paul Ryan the fuck out of office.  He's a fucking disgrace.  He'll never be voted out.

[Padma]

My understanding is that many of the original participants in wikileaks have left due to its changed mission. For me, I like to just think of it now as Assange, Putin's lackey, working with documents Russian intelligence has stolen and helping them subvert democracy in the U.S. and Europe. (Assange, after all, still describes himself as an anarchist).

That he still has credibility as some kind of journalist is very disturbing. He's just part of Putin's propaganda team now, from what I see.

On a related note, I'm going to be VERY disappointed in Obama if he doesn't release the information about Russia and Assange interfering in our election to help get Donald Trump to become president.  Americans NEED to know the details of this--especially as he is currently not taking OUR country's intelligence briefings but IS, per KAC, getting intelligence from somewhere.

From where, exactly?  Flynn is close to Russia. As future NSA is FLYNN now "briefing" him, per Putin's requests? That's the only explanation I can see for the --apparently weeks-in-the-planning--repeated provocations with China.  Trump's gone out of his way to make trouble with them and, since he knows nothing about anything, I have to think he's acting as someone's puppet.

("No puppet, no puppet. YOU'RE the puppet!"*)--Tubby childish debate outburst that still makes me laugh. He's such a buffoon.

*corrected thanks to callmebetty. Tubbyisms must be perfectly preserved in all their idiocy (and sometimes unintended hilarity).

Edited December 5, 2016 by Padma

[callmebetty]

1 minute ago, Padma said:

My understanding is that many of the original participants in wikileaks have left due to its changed mission. For me, I like to just think of it now as Assange, Putin's lackey, working with documents Russian intelligence has stolen and helping them subvert democracy in the U.S. and Europe. (Assange, after all, still describes himself as an anarchist).

That he still has credibility as some kind of journalist is very disturbing. He's just part of Putin's propaganda team now, from what I see.

On a related note, I'm going to be VERY disappointed in Obama if he doesn't release the information about Russia and Assange interfering in our election to help get Donald Trump to become president.  Americans NEED to know the details of this--especially as he is currently not taking OUR country's intelligence briefings but IS, per KAC, getting intelligence from somewhere.

From where, exactly?  Flynn is close to Russia. As future NSA is FLYNN now "briefing" him, per Putin's requests? That's the only explanation I can see for the --apparently weeks-in-the-planning--repeated provocations with China.  Trump's gone out of his way to make trouble with them and, since he knows nothing about anything, I have to think he's acting as someone's puppet.

("Puppet? Puppet? No YOU'RE the puppet!")--Tubby childish debate outburst that still makes me laugh. He's such a buffoon.

It's actually "No puppet, no puppet, You're the puppet . " I still laugh about it.

[bittersweet4149]

29 minutes ago, potatoradio said:

However much Wisconsin makes me sad these days, there are still plenty of good people: Penzey's spices CEO speaks out against Trump's racism

Thank goodness! I'm in my local Penzey's so much the employees know me by name, LOL. It would break my heart if my favorite spice store were run by idiots.

 

2 minutes ago, Duke Silver said:

FFS I wish there was a way to get Paul Ryan the fuck out of office.  He's a fucking disgrace.  He'll never be voted out.

I'm going to do what I can for the cause - pester him and his local office about what he's voting on and why, write letters to the local county newspaper, do volunteer work with the county board, regularly attend town halls, and basically be the most annoyingly informed PITA I can be. Oh, and recruit, recruit, recruit, and recruit some more.

[Duke Silver]

@ the poster who was asking for advice WRT engaging Trump supporters:  This is exactly my POV.  Don't waste your time on the willfully ignorant.

[callmebetty]

2 hours ago, bittersweet4149 said:

Thank goodness! I'm in my local Penzey's so much the employees know me by name, LOL. It would break my heart if my favorite spice store were run by idiots.

 

I'm going to do what I can for the cause - pester him and his local office about what he's voting on and why, write letters to the local county newspaper, do volunteer work with the county board, regularly attend town halls, and basically be the most annoyingly informed PITA I can be. Oh, and recruit, recruit, recruit, and recruit some more.

Is there any way to find out who his sugar daddies (donors) are?

[aradia22]

http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/12/02/504155809/episode-739-finding-the-fake-news-king

ARGH GARGH

[Pixel]

Nobody really gave a shit about exposing fake news until it was too late. Where was all this focus when they were allowing Trump to spew his reblogged lies for the last two years?

[PatsyandEddie]

Just makes me SMDH at how anyone could see this and think it was anything other than bullshit. 

[InDueTime]

10 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2016/12/02/504155809/episode-739-finding-the-fake-news-king

ARGH GARGH

Here's another article about fake U.S. news writers in Macedonia of all places.

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-38168281

[MulletorHater]

11 minutes ago, Pixel said:

Nobody really gave a shit about exposing fake news until it was too late. Where was all this focus when they were allowing Trump to spew his reblogged lies for the last two years?

And it wasn't just him.  His son, Uday, was in on it also.  Media Matters outed that bastard for promoting a video claiming that it had credible evidence that Hillary was a witch and trafficked children.  I wonder how many idiots paid money to have their own beliefs validated.

The whole family sucks--with the exception of Barron and the grandkids who haven't reached the age of accountability yet. 

[aradia22]

From the crazy lady who used to send me emails, her favorites (aside from the racist fear mongering) seemed to be Hillary Clinton is a secret lesbian/Huma Abedin is her evil Muslim lover who has too much knowledge about happenings in the government/Bill and Hillary have some kind of sham marriage... in one combination or another. And that's me putting it nicely.

[KIMBERLYANN11]

I got me two tickets to the Trump rally in Grand Rapids MI!!  Yee HAW!!    It's going to be such a blast except for the fact that I'm not going.  Um - couldn't get out of work, yeah, that's the ticket!  I wonder if they're going to harass me by text if I'm late.  I'll be sure to beg them not to give up my seat because I will be there rilly, rilly soon!!

This wing-ding is being held at the Deltaplex.  The Delta fricking Plex.  My daughter had an event there the last few years and it is ... interesting.  It used to be a warehouse in a not-so-great part of town and they usually have things like monster truck rallies and the like.  Actually, I think the monster truck rallies are at VanAndel Arena down the street which is a beautiful arena - I don't know what the hell is at Deltaplex anymore.  Way to keep it classy tubby!!

[Lantern7]

Maybe the president-elect will drop all pretenses and have Cold Slither headline. If we're gonna go Eighties cartoon, why not go the whole mile?

[AntiBeeSpray]

2 hours ago, Duke Silver said:

@ the poster who was asking for advice WRT engaging Drumpf supporters:  This is exactly my POV.  Don't waste your time on the willfully ignorant.

Word. Better to try to do what you can do instead.

[Pixel]

31 minutes ago, AntiBeeSpray said:

Word. Better to try to do what you can do instead.

Well, today I showed a friend who thought she was a conservative (she did not vote for Trump but identifies as republican) that maybe she's not. And also enlightened her about the lies used to scare people with regard to late term abortion. She's one of my smart friends, and accepted my explanation as true, but admitted that she had believed the rhetoric about it. She thanked me for clearing up her misconception. 

One at a time, I guess. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

Just now, Pixel said:

Well, today I showed a friend who thought she was a conservative (she did not vote for Drumpf but identifies as republican) that maybe she's not. And also enlightened her about the lies used to scare people with regard to late term abortion. She's one of my smart friends, and accepted my explanation as true, but admitted that she had believed the rhetoric about it. She thanked me for clearing up her misconception. 

One at a time, I guess. 

Yea. But your friend is one of the few. There are too many who just are very stubborn and refuse to see any issue from any other side but their own.

[bittersweet4149]

3 hours ago, callmebetty said:

Is there any way to find out who his sugar daddies (donors) are?

A starter list of Paul Ryan's pimps.

I'll look for more info.

ETA: I see my former employer made the top donor list. Now I understand why I thought of that place as Evil Drug Lords, Inc.

Edited December 6, 2016 by bittersweet4149

[theredhead77]

41 minutes ago, Pixel said:

Well, today I showed a friend who thought she was a conservative (she did not vote for Trump but identifies as republican) that maybe she's not. And also enlightened her about the lies used to scare people with regard to late term abortion. She's one of my smart friends, and accepted my explanation as true, but admitted that she had believed the rhetoric about it. She thanked me for clearing up her misconception. 

One at a time, I guess. 

Good for you Pixel! I tried to explain what a "third term abortion just weeks from the due date" is (you know, typically an emergency c-section) to someone who refused to believe me. This person is male and I told him that unless he is transgender and has a uterus inside he doesn't get a say about what me, or the random woman on the other side of the bar do when it comes to our bodies. As far as he's concerned, Planned Parenthood is an abortion factory and the majority of women use abortion as birth control. *SMH*

[callmebetty]

27 minutes ago, bittersweet4149 said:

A starter list of Paul Ryan's pimps.

I'll look for more info.

ETA: I see my former employer made the top donor list. Now I understand why I thought of that place as Evil Drug Lords, Inc.

That whole privatizing health care makes a whole lot of sense now. Damn when your pimps say go make that money you better be making them money . 

[aradia22]

Quote

As far as he's concerned, Planned Parenthood is an abortion factory and the majority of women use abortion as birth control. *SMH*

I don't understand how people can characterize abortion as traumatizing fetus murder as well as casual, easy breezy birth control. Also, if you really think PP is an "abortion factory" I feel like that says more about you than the people you think are performing or having those abortions. And to generalize for a moment, we need to have fewer dudes passing judgment and making decisions over lady bodies. 

[bittersweet4149]

17 minutes ago, callmebetty said:

That whole privatizing health care makes a whole lot of sense now. Damn when your pimps say go make that money you better be making them money . 

Heh, they told that Mitch to work that pole and make it clap.

He. Will. Be. Stopped.

[AntiBeeSpray]

23 minutes ago, bittersweet4149 said:

Heh, they told that Mitch to work that pole and make it clap.

He. Will. Be. Stopped.

Okkkay now that put an image in my head that I have to get out of it O_O.

 

1 hour ago, bittersweet4149 said:

A starter list of Paul Ryan's pimps.

I'll look for more info.

ETA: I see my former employer made the top donor list. Now I understand why I thought of that place as Evil Drug Lords, Inc.

Yea and I saw that AT&T, the ISP I go through made it as well. 

[ebk57]

8 hours ago, Grommet said:

Possibly OT, but what the hell happened to Chris Cillizza? He was one of my TV/WaPo boyfriends before the election and now he's a shill for Trump. I'm almost as upset as when I found out Tom Selleck is a conservative. (Say it ain't so, Magnum!)

I used to think Cillizza was good when I read him in the Post.  Then he started showing up several times a week on Tony Kornheiser's radio show.  Now I want to kill him.  Or at least have him shut his stupid mouth.

[Lantern7]

I'd like to know if Mitch can get up after you knock him on his back. Hey, I blame Jon Stewart.

Thinking the president-elect will stop Guardians Of The Galaxy Vol. 2 from getting released. Too many aliens for him. And trees can't be alive. If they are, he would be a monster for cutting them down to make casinos.

[ruby24]

I read that there are at least 8 Democratic electors in the electoral college willing to turn away from Hillary to help elect a sane Republican alternative to Trump. Their plan is John Kasich.

What do you guys think of this? If this was possible, could we live with it? I could. I'm at the point where I would literally accept anyone other than Trump.

[Dianthus]

Kasich is no prize either, from what I understand. He's not very popular in Ohio. Gah!

[theredhead77]

23 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I read that there are at least 8 Democratic electors in the electoral college willing to turn away from Hillary to help elect a sane Republican alternative to Trump. Their plan is John Kasich.

What do you guys think of this? If this was possible, could we live with it? I could. I'm at the point where I would literally accept anyone other than Trump.

I'd take Jeb.

[izabella]

2 hours ago, callmebetty said:

That whole privatizing health care makes a whole lot of sense now. Damn when your pimps say go make that money you better be making them money . 

That is how the swamp makes wealthy swamp creatures wealthier.  Add some Goldman Sachs investment bankers to the Cabinet, and it's the biggest con pulled on rural red voters.  The swamp suckers take care of their own, and rural red voters are not their own, not unless they have money to invest hidden in their sock drawers.

[Bastet]

Quote

Well, today I showed a friend who thought she was a conservative (she did not vote for Trump but identifies as republican) that maybe she's not. And also enlightened her about the lies used to scare people with regard to late term abortion. She's one of my smart friends, and accepted my explanation as true, but admitted that she had believed the rhetoric about it. She thanked me for clearing up her misconception. 

One at a time, I guess. 

This happened to me when I got my hair cut just before Thanksgiving.  I knew my hairdresser was a Republican, but was hoping that didn't translate to voting for Trump.  (I figured it didn't, since, despite our differences she has always seemed, you know, sane, but you never know.)  It didn't, but as we talked she spouted off with some things about Hillary, protestors, etc. that were patently false.  I corrected her, and she was not just receptive but thankful, talking about how increasingly difficult it is to evaluate the veracity of shared information today.  (And she wasn't just going along to get along since I'm a paying customer, as we've had some lively discussions over the years.  And I don't think it's that difficult, but whatever.)

Unfortunately, this has been a singular experience.

[aradia22]

Quote

I read that there are at least 8 Democratic electors in the electoral college willing to turn away from Hillary to help elect a sane Republican alternative to Trump. Their plan is John Kasich.

What do you guys think of this? If this was possible, could we live with it? I could. I'm at the point where I would literally accept anyone other than Trump.

Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean, but that doesn't make sense to me. It just seems like more wasted 3rd party protest votes and isn't that part of the reason we're in this mess? 

[possibilities]

I know it's hard to talk with certain people, and I'm as guilty as anyone of not having the patience a lot of the time. But way upthread there was a link to an article by a guy who was raised in the belly of the white supremacist beast and was eventually changed by making friends with people who knew better. He was basically disowned by his family when he stopped sharing their racist views, and if he could change, I think there's at least a little bit of hope for others.

What I think though is that it isn't one conversation that does it. So when you engage with someone, don't expect to see a big dramatic change immediately. But think of it like planting a seed. They don't all germinate, and some of them take time to do so, but the more you plant, the more likely something grows.

It's like how LGBT rights got momentum by people coming out, and straights realizing that we're not monsters, and they can't help but love their family members, neighbors, other people they meet who turn out to be "one of them"-- we still have a ways to go, but the amount of progress on this has been dramatic in my lifetime. It may be hard to fully comprehend this if you didn't live through it, but I'm 51, and in my lifetime-- it's like a completely different world than what I grew up with.

I'm not saying "be patient," or minimizing how enraging or terrifying the situation is. I'm just saying that I think if you do have the stomach to engage, it may help more than it looks like on the surface. If enough of us do it, it will build up to critical mass and make a difference.

Of course, I mostly can't handle it because I'm too upset. But the times I have managed it, or seen other people do so, I really believe it helps, even if it doesn't look like it does.

Van Jones did an interview on The Daily Show tonight, talking about why he keeps trying and doesn't write people off, and I found it really helpful. Comedy Central (or Hulu) usually has the interviews up to stream by morning, if anyone wants to check it out.

I think it's delicate when to engage, and when not to, and how to do it when we do. Just like coming out, there are risks, and benefits, and every situation is different. But I just wanted to say don't entirely give up, and when you do feel able to try, I think it's a worthwhile endeavor, and possibly the only thing that might make a difference.

[possibilities]

12 minutes ago, aradia22 said:

Maybe I'm not understanding what you mean, but that doesn't make sense to me. It just seems like more wasted 3rd party protest votes and isn't that part of the reason we're in this mess? 

No-- there is an actual effort among Electoral College members, to NOT elect Trump, and they are trying to get a critical mass of EC members to agree on someone. The woman I heard talking about it said that she's a Dem and thinks Hillary should get it, but would go along with voting for some non-Trump Republican (someone not totally insane and actively trying to rule like an ego-maniacal dictator with no regard for Constitutional principles). It would not be a throwaway vote, it would be a collective EC agreement to actually elect someone and not just a protest. I think her group is called something like "The Hamilton Electors."

I found a link: http://www.wnyc.org/story/hamilton-electors/

[Padma]

She's never going away. Never, never, never.

Kellyanne, Planning How To Get Paid Big Bucks Lying for Trump

Forming a group that will get millions from donors who want access and will pay her for lying and hiring others to lie on his behalf.  I hope she continues to experience the Picture of Dorian Gray effect--and that it intensifies day after day, month after month. She is vile.

[Kromm]

57 minutes ago, Padma said:

She's never going away. Never, never, never.

Kellyanne, Planning How To Get Paid Big Bucks Lying for Trump

Forming a group that will get millions from donors who want access and will pay her for lying and hiring others to lie on his behalf.  I hope she continues to experience the Picture of Dorian Gray effect--and that it intensifies day after day, month after month. She is vile.

The sad thing is that she's not even a GOOD liar. She's a terrible one. 

The only "skill" she has is to keep going undeterred when confronted by her lies as if she hadn't just been caught in a bald-faced lie. 

So maybe that's the whole "trick". I mean it's always obvious when she lies.

[ChromaKelly]

5 hours ago, possibilities said:

No-- there is an actual effort among Electoral College members, to NOT elect Trump, and they are trying to get a critical mass of EC members to agree on someone. The woman I heard talking about it said that she's a Dem and thinks Hillary should get it, but would go along with voting for some non-Trump Republican (someone not totally insane and actively trying to rule like an ego-maniacal dictator with no regard for Constitutional principles). It would not be a throwaway vote, it would be a collective EC agreement to actually elect someone and not just a protest. I think her group is called something like "The Hamilton Electors."

I found a link: http://www.wnyc.org/story/hamilton-electors/

If they actually did this, I'd love it if they picked Evan McMullin. If he had been the Republican nominee, I might have even voted for him over Hillary.

https://www.evanmcmullin.com/

[NewDigs]

6 hours ago, Padma said:

She's never going away. Never, never, never.

Kellyanne, Planning How To Get Paid Big Bucks Lying for Trump

Forming a group that will get millions from donors who want access and will pay her for lying and hiring others to lie on his behalf.  I hope she continues to experience the Picture of Dorian Gray effect--and that it intensifies day after day, month after month. She is vile.

Might be time to get on the phones:

'The new group is expected to focus especially on 10 vulnerable Democratic senators who represent states that Trump won: Sens. Heidi Heitkamp (N.D.) and Joe Manchin III (W. Va.), who are reportedly under consideration for Trump administration positions; Joe Donnelly (Ind.), who hails from Vice President-elect Mike Pence's home state; and Sens. Bill Nelson (Fla.), Robert P. Casey Jr. (Pa.), Claire McCaskill (Mo.), Jon Tester (Mont.), Tammy Baldwin (Wis.), Sherrod Brown (Ohio) and Debbie Stabenow (Mich.). Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-Minn.), whose state voted for Hillary Clinton, is also seen as a potentially persuadable Democrat given her publicly stated desire to seek bipartisan compromises.

The Trump group could potentially target each senator by mobilizing followers to call their offices or target the lawmakers on Twitter, Facebook and other social-media platforms. Hand-picked leaders in each of the counties Trump won across the country could also apply more direct pressure by calling state or district offices.'

 

Bastards.

[Duke Silver]

Consider calling this number if you have the time:

Edited December 6, 2016 by Duke Silver

[partofme]

8 hours ago, ruby24 said:

I read that there are at least 8 Democratic electors in the electoral college willing to turn away from Hillary to help elect a sane Republican alternative to Trump. Their plan is John Kasich.

What do you guys think of this? If this was possible, could we live with it? I could. I'm at the point where I would literally accept anyone other than Trump.

I'm very much opposed to this.  I won't accept any Republican and neither should they.

[Duke Silver]

 

In New York, Heroes in Hijabs Face Trump-Loving Haters

Quote

On Saturday evening, an off-duty police officer who wears a hijab in and out of uniform dropped her 16-year-old son off by their hone and returned from parking the family car to see a man with a pit bull harassing and pushing him.
“Go back to your country,” the man was heard to say.
The man then turned on her.
“I’ll slit your throat, you ISIS bitch,” he said.

[Totale]

12 hours ago, KIMBERLYANN11 said:

I'll be sure to beg them not to give up my seat because I will be there rilly, rilly soon!!

Not to worry.  I read the arena in Cincinnati was half empty.