The After Show: Because You Can't Get Enough

[Tatum]

I didn't think Susie wanted to be on another challenge? Someone posted excerpts from an interview she gave recently saying the payoff (around $150-200K before taxes) was not worth losing 6 weeks with her family, and that maybe for a show like Survivor where the prize is a million dollars, would be worth it. She also said that John may be financially better off than she is at this point but implied he was a huge loser for still doing these shows as he's closing in on 35.

[Watermelon]

I don't see how it's worth it for most of the losers, but if you can manage to at least place, 30k even before taxes is a shit ton of money for 6 weeks of "work" in a foreign country you never would have gone to otherwise.

[KerleyQ]

I think it's a perfect "job" for the younger cast members who don't have family obligations or an established career.  You get to travel to all these exotic countries on MTV's dime, you get to do some cool things you never would have done in your normal life.  You get to hang out and drink with a bunch of other (generally) attractive people.  You get a certain level of fame out of it so that you can make some money on public appearances.  And you have a shot at winning a decent amount of money.  For someone older, married with kids and a career, it's not worth it.  But for the younger cast who don't have those ties yet?  I can see the attraction.  (I wouldn't have done it at that age, because I'm painfully shy and would rather do just about anything other than be on TV, but I see what the appeal is for a lot of them.) 

I can see why Susie doesn't want to do any more of them, but is willing to film the occasional interview segment or after show appearance.  That's one piece of a day out of her life versus weeks.  And, when I was her age, I was also married and a mother.  I would have been happy to get paid a little to take a day out of my life to film something for them (if I was remotely interested in being on TV, which she is).  But no way in the world would I have wanted to give up more than a month of my life and sit around watching drunk people hook up and fight.  

Edited July 12, 2016 by KerleyQ

[dangwoodchucks]

1 hour ago, Tatum said:

I didn't think Susie wanted to be on another challenge? Someone posted excerpts from an interview she gave recently saying the payoff (around $150-200K before taxes) was not worth losing 6 weeks with her family, and that maybe for a show like Survivor where the prize is a million dollars, would be worth it. She also said that John may be financially better off than she is at this point but implied he was a huge loser for still doing these shows as he's closing in on 35.

At the time of her article, Susie said she would still entertain the offer of another challenge, and that was after she had her son and got her degree. I don't know anything about now, but by being involved with MTV and Challenges I meant things like participating in the After Shows and doing her podcast. Seems like she wouldn't want anything to do with it after her negative experiences.

As far as Susie considering John a loser for still doing the Challenges, he's a strong competitor so the work's not that hard, he's a manipulator who knows how to play the game, MTV loves him and keeps inviting him back, he gets to travel on someone else's dime, and he usually wins. It's like having a job where you travel and work out, why would he not take advantage of it. Depending on how you look at it, he's either smart or a loser.

Disclaimer: I DO NOT like John, but as long as MTV does he'll be on the Challenges.

[scrb]

Her PhD must not be bringing the income if she's considering another Challenge.

[Steph619]

Ha ha, I can't get enough of the "Johnny Backpack" clip. It's definitely my favorite elimination moment of all Challenge history.

[Unclejosh]

Are Phds in Religious Studies even in demand for high paying gigs if she even was interested in pursing a career in the field which she does not seem to be?

[Unclejosh]

The Johnny Backpack is the single greatest moment in all Challenge history in my opinion. It has everything.  Humor, crazy twist, insane beast performance by a formerly banned cast member trying to earn a redemptive way back on the show , complete humiliation of the most deserving cast member probably of all time, the reactions of the other cast members, etc.

I have watched just about every single episode of the Challenge since its inception (still haven't seen the Spring Break Challenge) and I have not seen another individual moment that compares.

[luckyroll3]

45 minutes ago, Unclejosh said:

The Johnny Backpack is the single greatest moment in all Challenge history in my opinion. It has everything.  Humor, crazy twist, insane beast performance by a formerly banned cast member trying to earn a redemptive way back on the show , complete humiliation of the most deserving cast member probably of all time, the reactions of the other cast members, etc.

I have watched just about every single episode of the Challenge since its inception (still haven't seen the Spring Break Challenge) and I have not seen another individual moment that compares.

This is the absolutely greatest moment in Challenge history and I loved that they showed it in all its glory!  I have said this before, and I'll say it again, I wish the producers would have that clip handy to play every time John starts acting like Challenge king.  But in order for that to happen, the producers would have to finally stop hyping him as the main attraction. 

Edited July 14, 2016 by luckyroll3

[WhosThatGirl]

Johnny Backpack is the best thing to come out of these challenges.

[SophiaPehawkins]

I wish they had spent more time on CT and Johnny Backpacks. I'm glad CT's proud of that, because I'm glad it exists. Johnny may have more challenge wins than him, but he sucks as a person so he loses always. I remember during the reunion he said that he had tired CT out, which is why Tyler won. What a joke. Sometimes I don't know if Johnny actually believes what he says or if he's just playing it up to stay relevant. 

When Katie went off on Sarah, it was definitely brutal. She said some hurtful things to her, but that was also Sarah's first challenge and she was up JEK's ass, especially Kenny, who I'm pretty certain is the one who put the plunger on Katie's bed, while Sarah laughed in the corner. I think that was the Ruins; the infamous season with Tonya and the toothbrush incident. TPTB should never ever show any clips from that season. So disgusting.

CT's beard is definitely growing on me. Still like him better clean shaved, but he's looking good, blue eyes and all.

[Lantern7]

*sigh* I think I peaked when they showed the ice-melting mission from BOTS2. Cue Veronica: "Blow and suck! Blow and suck! Use your hands!"

On Planet Challenge, pussing out on a final mission is far worse than almost dying for lack of stamina. Eric "Big Easy" Banks probably feels so grateful not to have his name mentioned. Meanwhile, people probably point at Jay's crotch and laugh all the time. BTW, does Jenna deserve some scorn for bailing, or was that all Jay?

If you're gonna show Katie going off, run the highlight where she almost kills Veronica, if not for Mike's timely intervention. Katie's a mom now. I feel so old.

Thanks to MTV and/or BMP for not inviting Kenny. He co-hosted the last retrospective, and he probably still needs to be punched in the face. I'll take Marky Mark over him, and Marky Mark probably still thinks he can do another season.

Awwwwww .  . . CT & Diem. Manipulative as hell, but it does get to me. And we got to see Shavoun maybe burst an implant. This is funny because I felt she sucked ass almost as bad as Trisha on Sydney.

[KerleyQ]

44 minutes ago, Lantern7 said:

BTW, does Jenna deserve some scorn for bailing, or was that all Jay?

From what I remember, Jenna was ready to go the distance with it, but once it became clear that Jay was wimping out, she decided "I'm not going to sit here and keep drinking this crap if he's just going to quit."  So I think all the scorn should be heaped on Jay.  

[MVFrostsMyPie]

On 7/12/2016 at 6:13 AM, dangwoodchucks said:

Here's another one for the baby list, Laura from St Thomas RW (I think BOTS was her only challenge) had a baby girl in February.

Was she the ginger who was hung up on Trey? Or the blonde chick hung up on the I-burn-cigarettes-on-myself dude... Rob? Robb? Robbb?

[OnceSane]

13 minutes ago, MattDuffysCat said:

Was she the ginger who was hung up on Trey? Or the blonde chick hung up on the I-burn-cigarettes-on-myself dude... Rob? Robb? Robbb?

Ginger who was Trey-obsessed.

[MaggieG]

Jemmye...did not look good. I don't know if it was the way her hair was styled or the top she was wearing but it was not working. Devyn, on the other hand, looked amazing. I've always liked her. Was she wearing an engagement ring?

My memory must be worse than I thought because during all the replays I saw a guy named Swift and a girl named Cooke and for the life of me I cannot remember ever seeing them. 

TJ being gleeful during trivia is always a good thing. 

[Princess Sparkle]

5 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

My memory must be worse than I thought because during all the replays I saw a guy named Swift and a girl named Cooke and for the life of me I cannot remember ever seeing them. 

 

Heh - you can be forgiven for not knowing them; they were each only on one challenge.  They were both on the Real World; Swift was from the St. Thomas season and was on Free Agents, and Cooke was from the second Las Vegas season and was on Rivals 2.  They both went by their last names because on their RW seasons, there was another Brandon (Swift's first name) and another Heather (Cooke's first name).

[Unclejosh]

I gotta say if the Reunion spoilers are true, there is gonna be a LOT of hate directed towards an already hated cast member.

[TiffanyNichelle]

Hated by who? Fans or other cast members?

[Unclejosh]

Fans I would think.  If you want me to put in in a spoiler tag I can if that is allowed.

[KerleyQ]

2 hours ago, MaggieG said:

TJ being gleeful during trivia is always a good thing. 

Other than the Johnny Bananas Backpack clip (which is always going to be my favorite Challenge clip ever), TJ's glee during trivia missions was my favorite thing about this special.  I am right there with him on his love for the trivia missions.  I loved his inability to get back to the next question for a few moments after John's "Dutch" answer. 

[LotusFlower]

2 hours ago, Unclejosh said:

I gotta say if the Reunion spoilers are true, there is gonna be a LOT of hate directed towards an already hated cast member.

I feel like you already spoiled it.  Of the five remaining teams, there's really only one cast member who's universally hated...

[Unclejosh]

I never said it was someone who is still there, nor that they are universally hated.  

Edited July 15, 2016 by Unclejosh

[Lantern7]

How awesome would it be if Johnny rolled in expecting the audience and host to blow him as per usual, only to be horrified that they realized that they had teeth.

On-Topic: I still think Devyn should replace TJ as host.

[WhosThatGirl]

3 minutes ago, Unclejosh said:

I never said it was someone who is still there.

I think I may need to know it now. 

3 minutes ago, Unclejosh said:

 

[LotusFlower]

49 minutes ago, Unclejosh said:

I never said it was someone who is still there, nor that they are universally hated.  

Now I'm intrigued....

[SophiaPehawkins]

8 hours ago, KerleyQ said:

Other than the Johnny Bananas Backpack clip (which is always going to be my favorite Challenge clip ever), TJ's glee during trivia missions was my favorite thing about this special.  I am right there with him on his love for the trivia missions.  I loved his inability to get back to the next question for a few moments after John's "Dutch" answer. 

I was thinking about that question and trying to figure out what Johnny was thinking. Maybe he thought TJ had said Austria? But even that's wrong, because they speak German. I do like the trivia challenges, because I love seeing how dumb all these people are.

[lilabennet]

1 hour ago, SophiaPehawkins said:

I was thinking about that question and trying to figure out what Johnny was thinking. Maybe he thought TJ had said Austria? But even that's wrong, because they speak German. I do like the trivia challenges, because I love seeing how dumb all these people are.

I think he had a brain fart and thought it was a trick question because English is such an easy answer.  Why he chose Dutch is anyone's guess.

[scrb]

These people have aged over the years.

[SophiaPehawkins]

20 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

How awesome would it be if Johnny rolled in expecting the audience and host to blow him as per usual, only to be horrified that they realized that they had teeth.

On-Topic: I still think Devyn should replace TJ as host.

I think Timmy would be awesome as a host. Maybe a tag team of him and Coral, who I didn't care for too much during her time, but has since grown on me. Probably because I compare her to the current cast. Devyn is definitely camera ready, but I think her problem is the same as Mark Long. They appear too "on" and phony for my liking. During the challenges they were on, it always appeared that they would give THs and soundbites that they knew would get them airtime. I know Coral and Timmy probably had similar intentions, but it felt more sincere and like that was naturally who they were.

We've had so much of TJ, who I can appreciate, but sometimes grates. I hate that he thinks quitters are the worst thing in the world. I remember BOTS2 when Frank and Zach were verbally abusing Sam throughout the entire season, but especially during the final. I just know that if she had sat out and said I'm not doing it, TJ would have given her his quitters speech, but not said anything to Zach and Frank. Honestly, I wish somebody would read those type of guys their rights. Winning means shit if you're a fucking asshole along the way.

Edited July 16, 2016 by SophiaPehawkins

[rho]

1 hour ago, SophiaPehawkins said:

We've had so much of TJ, who I can appreciate, but sometimes grates. I hate that he thinks quitters are the worst thing in the world. I remember BOTS2 when Frank and Zach were verbally abusing Sam throughout the entire season, but especially during the final. I just know that if she had sat out and said I'm not doing it, TJ would have given her his quitters speech, but not said anything to Zach and Frank. Honestly, I wish somebody would read those type of guys their rights. Winning means shit if you're a fucking asshole along the way.

I think it happened off camera since they were never invited back. Which is alright with me. I don't need those two to get any more airtime, even if it means getting a literal time out.

[SophiaPehawkins]

Didn't Frank appear on a challenge after that? Rivals II with Johnny? Zach has appeared on it off and on. He was on last season as a part of an elimination round. I'd like to think that TPTB put them in their place, but I really doubt it. They most encourage that type of behavior unless it crosses that line like the Tonya assault/incident. Even then, they're were going to sweep under the rug until Tonya filed charges. I continue to watch the show so I'm no better. My first season was Battle of the Sexes I and it's crazy how much this show has changed. I don't like drama. I actually like watching this for the actual competition.

[WhosThatGirl]

Yup, Frank was on rivals with Johnny, I believe they may have won as well. Also their "rival" was based on twitter rants they had with each other, which many pointed back on the TWOP forums pointed out was kind of like scraping for a rivalry, since most of the rivals happened on THE SHOWS and therefore could be referenced back to. 

I agree about TJ's rants on quitters, sometimes it's funny and warranted but other times it isn't. Like during Rivals 1-or 2?- Leroy and Mike were in the final three and it was a final challenge that started one day and went through the night and continued to the next night, and Mike had been coughing pretty bad and looked sick and the final stage of the mission was climbing up a mountain and Leroy told TJ he didn't want to do it since Mike was really sick and TJ gave them crap for it. 

[dangwoodchucks]

I'm happy to report that Frank and John did not win that season, CT and Wes did. *happy dance*

BMP has been reaching with the 'rivals' and 'exes' pairings since they started it.

[Watermelon]

I wish they'd go back to battle of the sexes with at least every other game being some sort of logic/not strength dependent challenge

[mojoween]

It was bullying and I shouldn't have enjoyed it and also Wes has grown on me since then but I wish they would have shown part of the night that CT yelled at Wes for hours and hours.  Wes just did not know what to do except sit there and take it.  He looked petrified.  Which again, I feel badly about, but I forgive a lot of what CT does.

[KerleyQ]

9 minutes ago, mojoween said:

It was bullying and I shouldn't have enjoyed it and also Wes has grown on me since then but I wish they would have shown part of the night that CT yelled at Wes for hours and hours.  Wes just did not know what to do except sit there and take it.  He looked petrified.  Which again, I feel badly about, but I forgive a lot of what CT does.

I laughed all through that one.  Because that was when the rest of the guys managed to talk Wes into trying to get CT to take a swing at him (if I'm remembering correctly), and CT knew exactly what he was trying to do, so, instead of giving him the physical reaction he wanted, he just yelled at him for hours.  

[SophiaPehawkins]

Wes was asking for it, though. He threw his mattress out the window. The psychological duress he put him through was way worse than any punch he could've thrown. There's a couple of clips on YouTube and there's one part where he keeps yelling "die, die, die." It's in my top ten favorite challenge moments.

ETA: just watched the clips again. It looks like Wes threw the mattress after that tirade. He was talking a lot of shit, though. I guess he didn't get the memo that CT's mellowed out. He wasn't going to throw a punch.

Edited July 19, 2016 by SophiaPehawkins

[WhosThatGirl]

16 hours ago, dangwoodchucks said:

I'm happy to report that Frank and John did not win that season, CT and Wes did. *happy dance*

BMP has been reaching with the 'rivals' and 'exes' pairings since they started it.

Oh right! I remember Wes and CT winning one together but i didn't rememeber they beat  Frank and John. I remember Wes and CT really did not like each other, I think they are okay now though. Also, was that rivals the season where John screamed at both Wes and CT one night and CT just kind of walked away? I only remember it because John's stupid cousin Pineapple was on the end of a situation like that this season and John went over to Thomas and was all, 'stop trying to get my cousin riled up, only punks do that' and i was thinking, 'like you did back in the day John'

The one thing I remember from rivals when John and Frank were partners was the unseen moments special where they had a free day and went to the beach and Cara Maria went to draw in the sand and John sat behind her and was mimicking her like a bully and the cast members tried to defend him like, "cara is odd, who draws in the sand? Of course someone is going to make fun of her for it" and then Laurel went over to her and gave her a hug so Frank jumped on Johnny and gave him a hug. Jerks.

[Craphole Island]

Man I really loved Nany this season and I was so happy she called Bananas out on this after show. I REALLY hope she's done with him. I also feel like she rolled her eyes at Sarah at one point but in probably just making that up bc I'm looking at reasons to hate Sarah.

 

I also appreciate the editors recently for not giving Johnny the best edit on these specials and aftershows

[SophiaPehawkins]

44 minutes ago, Sonoma said:

They were spotted having dinner together not too long ago. You'd be surprised how very few of these people actually hate each other. 

Then maybe Sarah had a point. It's impossible to know what's real and who's playing a role. It does appear that they come on these challenges and Nany and Johnny get along/fight depending on alliances. Then during "real life" they're friendly again. I'm not sure Nany is that good of an actress so I'm sure some of that is genuinely hurt feelings. I think the one that comes on this show and plays up their persona is Johnny. He was shown in that clip trying to manipulate Nicole, he screwed Nany on the last challenge, and he talks all this shit in his THs. Whatever I read online is that he's in this great person off the challenges. Maybe Nany has a hard time reconciling those two parts of Johnny. I think she would be better off without that friendship, but we only see a sliver of their relationship so who knows. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice...

Nany tweeted that she's going back to school so she's temporarily (maybe) retiring from the challenges, which is probably for the best. She trusts the wrong people when she comes on these things and always ends up near tears on the aftershows and reunion specials. I want to say more about Johnny, but I can't stand him and he never changes so whatever.

[Tatum]

6 hours ago, Sonoma said:

I think you're spot on about Nany not being able to reconcile both sides of Johnny. I also think there are still feelings on both sides but Johnny is better at keeping his professional and personal life and personalities separate while Nany gets so emotionally invested in it all, including everything he says and does to her both good and bad. So I agree it's a good time for her to take a break from these challenges. She needs to separate herself from this whole ongoing storyline with Johnny.

 

I agree, especially about them both having feelings for each other. Nany seems like she's completely in love with John most of the time, even when she's angry at him. I think that's why it hits her so hard when he does his various Bananas behaviors.

 

But something interesting to me- I don't really think Bananas "screwed over" Nany during Bloodlines. Abe got all the votes he needed against Nany- John's vote for someone else wouldn't have mattered. John underestimated Abe and by the time he realized what he was happening, it was too late to try and rally the others to vote his way (for Jenna). Sure, he could have still voted for Jenna as a symbolic gesture but that wasn't helping her stay out of elimination. But the interesting thing to me is that they showed Bananas following Nany around trying to explain himself, which is something I've never seen him do. When his negotiations with Ev and Kenny left Paula on the bad boat on The Island, not only did he not apologize to her, he didn't even seem to care how upset she was. When he bungled the Ruins vote so that Ibis ended up in elimination instead of Veronica (and he was openly hooking up her with that challenge) and Ibis yells at him, Bananas just kind of shrugs his shoulders about it. Nany is the only girl I've seen him try to make amends to, or at least, explain his position. I find that interesting.

[luckyroll3]

But he tried to apologize without the cameras....so his girlfriend wouldn't see him apologizing to someone he was possibly unfaithful with?

[Unclejosh]

On 7/18/2016 at 8:52 PM, SophiaPehawkins said:

Wes was asking for it, though. He threw his mattress out the window. The psychological duress he put him through was way worse than any punch he could've thrown. There's a couple of clips on YouTube and there's one part where he keeps yelling "die, die, die." It's in my top ten favorite challenge moments.

ETA: just watched the clips again. It looks like Wes threw the mattress after that tirade. He was talking a lot of shit, though. I guess he didn't get the memo that CT's mellowed out. He wasn't going to throw a punch.

He has mellowed in real life too. I was listening to a podcast recently that CT was on and he was asked about his last fight in real life of course. It wasn't that long ago and he was sucker punched in the back of the head by some drunk guy in a bar and CT went down for a second but wasn't knocked out or hurt and his boys were holding the guy back expecting CT to wail on the guy but he told them to let the guy go and he just grabbed both of the guys wrists and held him like that and basically berated the guy just like he did to Wes on that challenge.  As others have previously said on the challenge CT is ridiculously strong even for a guy his size and the guy couldn't even move his arms and had to just take the verbal beat-down.

CT has definitely grown up a LOT these past few years.  Losing his brother and Diem plus getting older and wiser has really made a big difference in him I think. If that guy had thrown that punch back in the day CT would have pummeled him regardless of the consequences.  Now he knows he has stuff to lose and life is too short to be stupid and made dumb decisions.

On 7/18/2016 at 8:52 PM, SophiaPehawkins said:

[KerleyQ]

`You can tell Nany is still pissed off, and I don't blame her.  What it came down to was that John let his rivalry with Wes take precedence over their years long friendship.  He not only did't protect her as part of his alliance, he actively gunned for her, even when she (for the first several episodes) was holding Wes back and not letting him play the political game against John.  And then he finished her off by taking her cousin into his inner circle and trying to turn Nicole against her.  And then he kept pulling the "Vince would never do that to me" line when Nany tried to ask how he'd feel if someone had turned Vince against him.  He's such a smug piece of shit.  Sarah was dead on when she told Nany that maybe it's time to just cut off her ties to John, because he's not good for her.  

On a related note, although this goes back to last week's clip show more than this episode, I'm so sick of all these girls falling on their sword for John.  when Camilla was doing her talking heads, and she made some comment that came across as confirming her relationship with him, she backtracked and jokingly tried to pretend it didn't imply exactly what it did.  I was yelling at my TV "Camilla, stop protecting his ass.  Everyone knows he's a cheater anyway, just let him take his lumps and stop accepting the responsibility for protecting him."  If John doesn't want it to become public knowledge that he cheats on his girlfriend every chance he gets, then he should, oh, I don't know, stop cheating on his girlfriend?  You girls aren't responsible for maintaining his relationship with his girlfriend, he is.  So stop playing coy and backpedaling when you "slip" or when someone asks you point blank on an After Show or Reunion show.  He'd throw any one of you to the wolves to protect himself (both in the game and in his relationship), so stop being so stupidly loyal to him.  (Not that I'm discounting their part in getting involved with someone they know has a girlfriend, although I don't know that all of his hook-ups knew when they got involved, but they need to top bending over backwards to protect the "honor" of someone who only likes them as far as they can help him).  I would have loved if Nany had flat out said last night "so you hook up with me while we were partners on Exes 3, the next season you join the crowd and say my name, even though I would have never said yours, and this season, you actively gun for me and turn my cousin against me."  Just burn his little house of cards to the ground already, Nany.  Come on! 

[luckyroll3]

I can't believe John called the producers to complain and whine about Sarah being invited back to do the show.  What a baby!

[Steph619]

As much as Johnny likes to deny it, he's very manipulative. He was obviously trying to stir up stuff with Nicole so she could be against Nany so Nany had every right to be mad at him. There is life beyond these Challenges and no one should be trying to mess up the bond they have as family.

Of course Johnny would call production threatening to quit! I'm very curious to know how that conversation went as I bet there was a lot of sweet talk from production to convince him otherwise. Along with the majority of the contestants, it's also the production's fault that he acts they way he does.

[KerleyQ]

17 minutes ago, Steph619 said:

As much as Johnny likes to deny it, he's very manipulative. He was obviously trying to stir up stuff with Nicole so she could be against Nany so Nany had every right to be mad at him. There is life beyond these Challenges and no one should be trying to mess up the bond they have as family.

Of course Johnny would call production threatening to quit! I'm very curious to know how that conversation went as I bet there was a lot of sweet talk from production to convince him otherwise. Along with the majority of the contestants, it's also the production's fault that he acts they way he does.

I had so much more respect for Wes, who said in his post-elimination comments that he respected Nany not wanting to get physical with her cousin, because it would be weird to try to beat up your family.  That was the exact opposite of John manipulating Nicole to cause drama among the cousins for his own amusement and game play. 

[LotusFlower]

3 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

I can't believe John called the producers to complain and whine about Sarah being invited back to do the show.  What a baby!

Plus, if this was before they flew down to Mexico, then he didn't know it was Rivals, right?  They don't know this ahead of time...right?!  So not only was he angry that she was on the show, but then he gets paired with her. I would say that's sweet justice, but I have a feeling it kinda works out for him.  In more ways then the two of them "rekindling" their friendship.

[lilabennet]

Johnny is manipulative, no question.  But, we have no idea how long that conversation had gone on before that clip.  Nicole was probably bitching about Nany for a while before Johnny chimed in.  He was commiserating with her.  Nany can be mad at Johnny all she wants, but she should be aiming some of her anger at Nicole.  I am fine with the blood before water philosophy and all, but you should draw the line somewhere, so you don't get walked all over.  Nicole deliberately lied to Nany about Camila, threw Nany under the bus to Dario, didn't root for Nany in her elimination vs Nate, and was a full participant in that conversation with Johnny in that clip.  And yet, Nicole gets an automatic free pass no matter what she does just because she is family.  At this point Nicole could probably steal Nany's credit cards and run up 1000s of dollars of charges and Nany would just accept it.