Politics in the Media

[Cupid Stunt]

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 3:14 AM, Giant Misfit said:

Last week I read about the story of Comet Ping Pong (a pizza restaurant in DC) and how some fake news sites where running stories that the restaurant was a front for a child sex abuse ring led by Hillary Clinton and John Podesta. Naturally the stories, now dubbed "Pizzagate," ended up on being shared constantly by malleable useful idiots on every social media platform available and, naturally, the death threats came pouring in. (Here's the NYT article)

So, it came as no surprise to me that last night some crazy asshole from NC drove to DC to do some "self investigation," and brought along his gun (for assistance, I guess) and threatened an employee before firing inside the restaurant. Luckily, no one was killed and the asshole was apprehended. {Man Motivated by ‘Pizzagate’ Conspiracy Theory Arrested in Washington Gunfire)

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2016 at 9:36 AM, fishcakes said:

And one of the people who spread the lies about Comet that led to the shooting was Trump's pick for National Security Advisor.

Currently, Flynn's idiot son's entire twitter timeline is that the rumors are true, the shooting inside the restaurant was staged, and the gunman was an actor. The last bit is based on the fact that the gunman's name is Edgar M. Welch and there's a person listed on IMDb with a couple of acting credits named Edgar Maddison Welch, which is obviously ironclad proof that Hillary is a pedophile.

I guess this is how it's going to go from now on. Trumpists will concoct some ridiculous lie/conspiracy theory, one of their more insane brethren will act on it and innocent people will get hurt, Trumpists will then say, "NO THAT WAS U!" and back it with a new lie/conspiracy theory. Fun for the whole family!

 

Pizzagate, possibly to become the textbook example of how inventing “fake news” can lead to “real, tragic consequences”. I’ve been ignoring it — I suspect a lot of us have — because it seems one of those wingnut-shit-dumps designed, like cholera, to spread its contagion further with every mention. But given that one of its deluded proponents has managed to push the argument from banned-on-reddit to national news outlets, I have to recommend Gizmodo‘s Pizzagaters Aren't Giving This Shit Up :

Quote

For months, 4chan and Reddit users have delved deep into the emails of John Podesta as they were released by Wikileaks and concluded that the emails contained coded language about a secret child-trafficking ring operating out of Comet Ping Pong, a Washington DC pizzeria—a ring ran by Podesta and former presidential hopeful Hillary Clinton. The theory was known as “Pizzagate,” and until recently it was just another of the internet’s outlandish conspiracy theories. Two of pizzagate’s loudest mouthpieces have backed off their support after a man armed with a AR-15, a Colt. 38, and a shotgun entered the restaurant to “investigate.” And yet, pizzagate somehow trudges on, without them.

(Pizzagate has been debunked by Snopes and the New York Times, and one of its biggest communities—r/pizzagate—was booted off Reddit for the repeated release of personally identifiable information, as Gizmodo reported last week.)

Two of the most vocal (and visible) entities propping up pizzagate’s absurd claims were, predictably, arch-troll Mike Cernovich and the Alex Jones’ Infowars….

There have always been people on the fringes making unsubstantiated claims and then covering their asses, just as there have always been angry, confused people willing to believe and forgive them. And while connections have been drawn by other outlets to Welch’s associations as a possible motivation for entering an otherwise unassuming pizzeria with a small arms cache, the connection is unprovable. But, hopefully the risk of having emboldened a gunman might cause Cernovich, Jones, and their ilk to reconsider fueling the fires of internet conspiracies.

What we’ve all been learning during Trump’s ascendence, though, is that the fringes are closer than ever to the center of power in this country. Among the pizzagate truthers, as Politico reported yesterday, is Michael Flynn Jr., close adviser to his father Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn—Trump’s pick for national security adviser…

Maddison Welch has the excuse of being a petty-criminal substance abuser with nothing more pressing on his calendar than investigating the ‘basement sex tunnels’ in a building with no basement. But what’s Alex Jones’ excuse — or Lt-Gen Flynn’s? Lulz nothing matters?

George Orwell would’ve been gob smacked ...

All human knowledge and history accessible at the click of a few buttons, and people are using it… to embed themselves, and each other, further and further in a matrix of unbreakable, shatterproof, venal stupidity.

[potatoradio]

Also, Liz Spayd? You who thought perhaps a few of your journalists went too far anti-Tubby in their Tweets?  Why don't you apply at Brietbart? That may be more your speed, dear.

Has anyone actually read the Time article on Tubby? Or isn't it out yet? I'm just curious as to the tone. In the event that it's an actual, 'wow, he's bigly great!' ring kissing article, I won't chance the click (I want to keep my breakfast down), but if they are, indeed, painting it as an unfavorable or dubious influence? I might take a look. 

I almost wish I had a Twitter account, because I would have thrown a Tweetertantrum of my own when Chris Hayes delayed his show (or let the coverage from bootlicking spittle boy Matthews seep over into his show) to play the N.C. version of Two Minutes Hate with Tubby. However, a few other MSNBC watchdog Twitterers did it for me. And Hayes retweeted them. If he did that as a wee jab at his corporate masters, then, hey, I'm definitely 'all in' :

 

Edited December 7, 2016 by potatoradio

[Padma]

Love those tweets! I was thinking exactly the same thing. Is "news" in 2017 going to be "all Tubby, all the time"? I did not need to have him broadcast live across all cable networks for his "In your face, haters! I'm gloating now!" tour.

As for the TIME story, I skimmed a little on their website and it seemed promising (i.e. not gushing and somewhat critical, at least in tone, in parts. Their online reasons for choosing him were negative enough that I don't think he'd be a fan.)  The cover is funny to me--in a chair, turning to face the camera and scowling--not sure what the photographer & editor were going for but it's not "a great man, dignified and thoughtful".  Apparently, Trump didn't like the caption "President of the Divided States of America".

He told Lauer on Today, "the magazine’s decision to list him as the “President of the Divided States of America” on the cover was “snarky.” “I’m not president yet, so I didn’t do anything to divide,” he said.

When he frames it to hang in his office with all the other magazine covers, at least it won't be giving the message that he's so great. It's very ... qualified.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Padma

[bittersweet4149]

1 hour ago, potatoradio said:

Also, Liz Spayd? You who thought perhaps a few of your journalists went too far anti-Tubby in their Tweets?  

Liz Spayd needs to be neutered.

Quote

Why don't you apply at Brietbart? That may be more your speed, dear.

Straight to the litter box.

[Padma]

If Tubby had any sense of decency (we know otherwise, sadly), he would at least GO to Comet Ping Pong, tv cameras following him, of course, talk with the owner, eat and praise the pizza, chat with the kids having fun there, etc.

Because facts and truth aren't going to change the way his most whacked out fan club members think.  At least if the place gets Tubby's own Seal of Approval--and he says how sorry he was about "the fake news on the internet"--maybe they will listen.

As for Flynn's son, well David Frum said "maybe he was also responsible for the conspiracy tweets/retweets his father's Twitter feed had."  Well maybe he was and maybe he wasn't.  And maybe either way its still Gen Flynn's responsibility.

And maybe I don't believe ANYTHING Tubby & his team say unless there's proof of it. That includes the origins of the Taiwan call, the 2.5 million "illegal alien vote for Hillary", the Carrier deal, the supposed June sell off of ALL of his stock at once, and now, the "firing" of Gen Flynn's son.

"Trust but verify," Reagan liked to say. But now, with Tubby it's better to say, "Distrust until you verify." The man lies All. The. Time.

[MulletorHater]

8 minutes ago, Padma said:

If Tubby had any sense of decency (we know otherwise, sadly), he would at least GO to Comet Ping Pong, tv cameras following him, of course, talk with the owner, eat and praise the pizza, chat with the kids having fun there, etc.

Because facts and truth aren't going to change the way his most whacked out fan club members think.  At least if the place gets Tubby's own Seal of Approval--and he says how sorry he was about "the fake news on the internet"--maybe they will listen.

No--no--a thousand times--NO to this!  

We don't want or need that kind of drama in our neighborhood.  Ever.  My memories of Comet Ping Pong have been ruined as it is without the spectacle and sleaze that follows that orange shit stain wherever he goes.  The damage is done.  He's already shown how evil he is because he had no problem with these lies being disseminated because they benefited him.  We don't want his fake sense of decency here.  He would find a way to make it all about himself as usual.  And, what parent would want their kids chatting with this fucker especially after this?  Even if he gave his seal of approval, the trolls' hatred of Hillary Clinton far outweighs their worship of their fuhrer.  They'll just whine and express regrets about voting for him just as some of them are doing now because prosecuting her is off the table (for now).

I was gratified by the outpouring of support that the owner of the restaurant has received in the last few days from people all over the country, as well as overseas.  People posted signs of support outside the restaurant ("Stand With Comet"), and it is reopening. 

BTW--it should also be noted that the other businesses on the block, Politics and Prose Bookstore and Coffeehouse as well as the seafood restaurant next door to Comet Ping Pong (which is owned by the same gentleman) received threats.  There is nothing Drumpf can say or do at this point to mitigate the damage.  

[callmebetty]

35 minutes ago, MulletorHater said:

No--no--a thousand times--NO to this!  

We don't want or need that kind of drama in our neighborhood.  Ever.  My memories of Comet Ping Pong have been ruined as it is without the spectacle and sleaze that follows that orange shit stain wherever he goes.  The damage is done.  He's already shown how evil he is because he had no problem with these lies being disseminated because they benefited him.  We don't want his fake sense of decency here.  He would find a way to make it all about himself as usual.  And, what parent would want their kids chatting with this fucker especially after this?  Even if he gave his seal of approval, the trolls' hatred of Hillary Clinton far outweighs their worship of their fuhrer.  They'll just whine and express regrets about voting for him just as some of them are doing now because prosecuting her is off the table (for now).

I was gratified by the outpouring of support that the owner of the restaurant has received in the last few days from people all over the country, as well as overseas.  People posted signs of support outside the restaurant ("Stand With Comet"), and it is reopening. 

BTW--it should also be noted that the other businesses on the block, Politics and Prose Bookstore and Coffeehouse as well as the seafood restaurant next door to Comet Ping Pong (which is owned by the same gentleman) received threats.  There is nothing Drumpf can say or do at this point to mitigate the damage.  

It's like when the Bernie supporters said the movement he started was no longer about him and they weren't going to back Hillary .  The same here, this is more than just backing him, this is a whole thing on its own. He made it acceptable to be truly awful, hateful bullying people and they are not going back into the bottle no matter what he might say or do.

Edited December 7, 2016 by callmebetty

[izabella]

1 hour ago, Padma said:

If Tubby had any sense of decency (we know otherwise, sadly), he would at least GO to Comet Ping Pong, tv cameras following him, of course, talk with the owner, eat and praise the pizza, chat with the kids having fun there, etc.

He only chooses to address things that piss him off - Hamilton, SNL, etc. - or enhance his personal sales activities - calls with Taiwan, etc.  He has no time or words for things that are actually happening, like the fires and tornadoes in red Tennessee, hate crimes committed by his supporters, or the potentially tragic consequences of fake news stories trumped up to attack Hillary (pizzagate).

[ChiCricket]

This has probably been posted before, but it was news to me.

      I can see why this bit about tRump by President Obama in 2011 probably infuriated him and made him want to run for president. I bet tRump's been simmering about this for YEARS.

Thanks, Obama! ;-)

PS I voted for President Obama twice.

Edited December 7, 2016 by ChiCricket
Grammar

[Padma]

Trump's been toying with running for president since 2000. It's actually true, as he says, that in election years people on the street called out to him asking him to run. He toyed with the Reform Party in 2000.  I think the NYT's reporters' conviction that it was being joked about at the WHCD that motivated him isn't very likely to be true. I kind of actually believe him, when he said he loved it because "the whole evening was all about me." This is a guy who complimented himself for service to the country when Obama produced the long form birth certificate showing everything Trump said was a big waste of time.

He's an egomaniac who loves attention. No way to know for certain, but I don't believe that Obama's funny jokes in 2012 kept Trump stewing for revenge until 2016. I think at 69 years old, it was just his last chance at getting that kind of attention and he figured "why not?" and "it'll be good for business--especially for the new DC hotel."   (And now, this.)

[fishcakes]

1 hour ago, stewedsquash said:

I think he was very unprofessional in tweeting since he does seem to be a qualified journalist. Someone who is a respected journalist should hold himself up to a higher standard

Yeah, how dare he tweet. Who does he think he is, the President Elect?

[Lantern7]

3 hours ago, Padma said:

If Tubby had any sense of decency (we know otherwise, sadly), he would at least GO to Comet Ping Pong, tv cameras following him, of course, talk with the owner, eat and praise the pizza, chat with the kids having fun there, etc.

 

YKW would lose the media if he digs into his pizza with a knife and fork. It would only be worth it if Jon Stewart magically appeared, bypassing the bodyguards and throngs, and gave him shit just about that.

Also, if you don't know about "PizzaGate," I recommend Samantha Bee's take on it on Full Frontal. John Oliver probably would've went into greater depth, but he's on vacation.

[ari333]

It's been almost a month and I'm still sick.

[fishcakes]

7 minutes ago, stewedsquash said:

Different rules for different things, gotta love it.

I'll love the First Amendment instead.

[Padma]

1 hour ago, stewedsquash said:

Nah, Trump isn't involved in the pizzagate, he should stay away from it. Let the ones involved handle it.

About that journalist above being investigated by the FBI: I think he was very unprofessional in tweeting since he does seem to be a qualified journalist. Someone who is a respected journalist should hold himself up to a higher standard and not get caught up in jokey tweets. He wants it both ways, it is a joke, I am a professional, the jokes where not professional, I don't want to pay for a lawyer for myself, let my boss get me a lawyer.

Maybe he needs to learn to tell a joke better. Like those hilarious ones Trump told during the campaign. You remember, "Obama's the founder of ISIS" and how second amendment people would know what to do about Hillary. 

Oh, and how Russia should hack into her email and release it!  Those were rib-ticklers we can all learn from!

[NewDigs]

5 hours ago, izabella said:

He only chooses to address things that piss him off - Hamilton, SNL, etc. - or enhance his personal sales activities - calls with Taiwan, etc.  He has no time or words for things that are actually happening, like the fires and tornadoes in red Tennessee, hate crimes committed by his supporters, or the potentially tragic consequences of fake news stories trumped up to attack Hillary (pizzagate).

And quite conveniently the things that piss him off always happen when there's an inconvenient truth.

 

sorry al. why?

[sistermagpie]

So I just watched that Jake Tapper interview with Pence. He's asking him about the fact that there was some attempt, before Flynn's son was dumped, of getting him security clearance. Pence just kept saying that he was aware that Flynn's son was helping him "with scheduling" and that this was all a distraction from the real issues which were blah blah MAGA.

And I know that on some level, this is what all politicians sometimes do--gloss over bad things and try to get back to your talking points. And God knows I had already seen the right wing has taken this to an extreme to the point where they barely say anything in a real interview.

But I still found myself watching this with amazement. This thing that Pence was dismissing as a distraction (he uses that word, I assume, because it's one thrown at Trump a lot and rubber/glue is a standard play for them) was actually very serious and really straightforward. Here's a man whose ideas are irresponsible and dangerous. He is either is too stupid or too lacking in discernment to be able to tell obvious lies from fiction, or else he doesn't care what he uses to attack people, or he's so paranoid he isn't always attached to reality. And somebody at some point suggested giving this guy security clearance.

People were happy that Tapper kept pointing out he wasn't answering the question, and that he answered Pence's canned speech about dangerous Muslims with a reminder of Flynn's white man with a gun. But it's not enough. The press needs to go even further with just getting real. Pence speechifying for a minute before just being asked again about the security clearance is a step in the right direction, but there's got to be some way to force him to have an actual conversation. Like lay out the danger here, explain how it's not a distraction, it's not something that no Americans care about. And if he doesn't answer the question, answer it it for him: So what I'm getting from this is that you know it was a betrayal of the country but he's trying to cover for the administration. Or that he doesn't understand why having people divorced from reality privy to dangerous information. So it's not just "you're not answering the question" since Pence (or whoever) is fine with being known for not answering the question.

Because now when people talk about getting people to actually talk they sometimes only mean they're not yelling or talking over to each other. Like Trevor Noah and Tomi Lehran. Only there, too, TN wasn't actually taking the issues seriously any more than Pence was.

[InDueTime]

This was quite tone-deaf, considering what day it is today.

https://mobile.twitter.com/newtgingrich/status/806620424796860418

Can you imagine the firestorm if Pres. Obama said anything like this?

[AntiBeeSpray]

14 minutes ago, InDueTime said:

This was quite tone-deaf, considering what day it is today.

https://mobile.twitter.com/newtgingrich/status/806620424796860418

Can you imagine the firestorm if Pres. Obama said anything like this?

Fuck you, Newt Gingrich.

Word. I have no words.

[sistermagpie]

4 hours ago, stewedsquash said:

Isn't it funny how Trump is the only one who can get away with it? Different rules for different things, gotta love it. 

And what are these rules?

[navelgazer]

1 minute ago, sistermagpie said:

And what are these rules?

I think the first one is IOKIYAR -- It's Okay If You're A Republican.  

Quote

 

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/10/11/iokiyar-and-iaciyad/

IOKIYAR and IACIYAD

OCTOBER 11, 2007 5:06 PM

For years, progressives have responded to news of GOP scandals unpunished, abuses of power unchecked, and outrageous remarks ignored by the media with the acronym IOKIYAR – It’s OK if you’re a Republican.

But I think we need a complementary acronym: IACIYAD – it’s a crime if you’re a Democrat.

Adam Cohen of the Times’s editorial page has written several pieces on cases in which Democrats have been railroaded into jail on charges that either don’t stand up, or don’t sound like a crime. The most dramatic example is former Alabama governor Don Siegelman, “who is serving more than seven years in prison on dubious charges.” Cohen’s latest is here.

[more at link]

 

[AntiBeeSpray]

@stewedsquash  Bad news on the recount. The Michigan one got stopped. It seems as if they're trying to put the blame on Jill Stein, in spite of her saying it isn't about any party. Just more bs. Nothing like wasting taxpayers time and money on something that a lot of taxpayers actually wanted to go through.

One

Source: freep.com

Two

Source: thehill.com

Three

Source: routers.com

[Duke Silver]

Why conservatives might be more likely to fall for fake news

Quote

Numerous reports have highlighted how fake news creators began targeting conservative readers after finding them receptive to stories that reinforced their existing worldview. As one fake news creator told NPR, "We've tried to do [fake news with] liberals. It just has never worked, it never takes off. You'll get debunked within the first two comments and then the whole thing just kind of fizzles out."

-----------

Still, while the apparent one-sidedness of the fake news ecosystem is striking, some researchers of partisan psychology say it's not particularly surprising. A robust body of academic research has sprung up in the past decade or so, documenting the different ways conservatives and liberals process the world.

[DollEyes]

13 hours ago, InDueTime said:

This was quite tone-deaf, considering what day it is today.

https://mobile.twitter.com/newtgingrich/status/806620424796860418

Can you imagine the firestorm if Pres. Obama said anything like this?

If Obama had said anything even remotely that stupid, the Republicans would try to have him drawn, quartered and/or deported. 

Once again, Gingrich proves that, to quote myself in the Trump thread, "As far as I'm concerned, the only Newts worth caring about are in Aliens & Fantastic Beasts & Where To Find Them."

[stillshimpy]

This is a really, really tough one to listen to.  Planet Money's The Fake News King podcast.   He's a registered democrat.  He just did it for money. 

Edited December 8, 2016 by stillshimpy

[callmebetty]

43 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

This is a really, really tough one to listen to.  Planet Money's The Fake News King podcast.   He's a registered democrat.  He just did it for money. 

Is this the guy that Samantha Bee was talking about in one of her shows? Or are there more of these assholes out there?

[AntiBeeSpray]

2 hours ago, stillshimpy said:

This is a really, really tough one to listen to.  Planet Money's The Fake News King podcast.   He's a registered democrat.  He just did it for money. 

I have one word for him: TRAITOR.

[Duke Silver]

PEOTUS' favorite media outlet has put out a list:

https://twitter.com/Kantrowitz/status/806674770859167744

[callmebetty]

27 minutes ago, Duke Silver said:

PEOTUS' favorite media outlet has put out a list:

https://twitter.com/Kantrowitz/status/806674770859167744

Ha ha ha ha. Rolling on the ground  clutching sides. Wipes away tears. 

[AntiBeeSpray]

From September but still very nice, via Garrison Keillor. He hit the nail on the head too.

Source: washingtonpost.com

3 hours ago, Duke Silver said:

PEOTUS' favorite media outlet has put out a list:

https://twitter.com/Kantrowitz/status/806674770859167744

Thanks for the list guys. Now I know who to read. Minus NPR so much, given that they're more right-wingish now.

[Duke Silver]

Journalists and Trump Voters Live in Separate Online Bubbles

[Duke Silver]

A counterpoint to the praise I've seen, Re: Trevor Noah's segment w/ Tomi Lahren:

Tomi Lahren Is Terrible. Period. ‘The Daily Show’s’ Trevor Noah and radio host Charlamagne Tha God have been fooled. Don’t follow their lead.

Quote

Ultimately, this type of interview is ineffective: best-case scenario, it makes the subject look stupid, perpetuating the stereotype that the “liberal media” enjoys gawking and laughing at “real Americans.” Worst-case scenario, it provides a larger platform for a hateful human being with a harmful agenda. These types of conversations don’t bring a divided America together—they amplify a voice that has no place in this country, period.

Quote

The erroneous notion that we have to empathize with and understand Trump’s most noxious supporters hasn’t just boosted Lahren’s influence—it’s also led to a slew of contentious articles on the so-called “alt-right.” Apparently, writers and readers alike are fascinated by the notion that, if you squint hard enough, neo-Nazis vaguely resemble Brooklyn hipsters. It’s this brand of normalization that likely prompted Noah to not only respectfully converse with Lahren, but even send her thank-you cupcakes after her interview.

[PatsyandEddie]

Watching the magnificent Joe Biden speaking in our nation's capital of Ottawa, Ontario. Right now,it's all about climate change and how REAL and urgent it is. 

[Duke Silver]

Everyone Wants to Stop ‘Fake News,’ but No One Seems to Know What Exactly It Is

Quote

The types of fake news people usually cite, broadly speaking, fall into three categories: (1) outright fabrications (the pope endorsing Trump), (2) deliberate political propaganda (how many view Russia Today), and (3) political clickbait that isn’t entirely true nor is it necessarily part of a foreign scheme. It’s the casual conflation of (1) with (2) and (3) that should raise alarm for those who value the free flow of ideas and information.

Quote

Given that some of the most public and viral attempts to build such systems have failed at making this crucial distinction, perhaps before attempting to solve the problem of fake news we should, at least, try to figure out what exactly it is.

[DollEyes]

21 hours ago, AntiBeeSpray said:

I have one word for him: TRAITOR.

A lying, greedy and borderline sociopathic asshole works, too.

Another great article from Charles Blow:

Trump: Madman Of the Year

[AntiBeeSpray]

10 minutes ago, Duke Silver said:

Everyone Wants to Stop ‘Fake News,’ but No One Seems to Know What Exactly It Is

Yep. That article nails it. A lot of it (and it's even NON-political now), has like a little seed of truth, but the rest of it is just hot air. Just something put out there to try to get clicks. Here's one that I've seen around now and then. They figure that the X Files has a nice captive audience that'll keep on falling for their fake news. 

[Duke Silver]

https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/807289774381867009

[KIMBERLYANN11]

I have a question that the informed people here may be able to answer for me.  I have a cow-orker who is obsessed with Wikileaks. Now, his ability to interpret what he reads may be suspect (he insists that one of the emails is Hillary selling classified information to the russians) - but he insists that what Wikileaks releases is 100% genuine.  My question is - how do we know that?   Juilian Assange has shown himself to have absolutely zero integrity in so many ways it's incredible.  He can't even leave the fucking Ecuadorian embassy without being extradited.  How would you trust anything the guy releases?  I think he's on Putin's payroll and it would be so easy to release a ton of genuine emails with one or two fakes interspersed. 

Cow-orker's big thing now is that the democratic party conspired with the "liberal" media to throw the election to Hillary.  If that's true, why did they do such a shitty job?  But -supposedly it's right there in Podesta's emails.  (Probably along with Comet PingPong - and the one that says "Hi Vlad, here's the classified info I promised - thanks for the millions.  We'll have to lunch sometime.  Ciao - Hills).  

I also have the pleasure of finding out I am an "elitist" because of my thoughts on the Carrier deal.  Cool!  Doesn't having money usually go along with being an elitist? Where's mine?

[Moose135]

I guess it's time to stop shopping at Macy's.  And that too bad, I heard they have a big one-day sale coming up. ;-)

[Padma]

On ‎12‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 7:56 AM, Duke Silver said:

Everyone Wants to Stop ‘Fake News,’ but No One Seems to Know What Exactly It Is

Fake news isn't factual.  Sometimes, when it involves the mixture of fact and opinion, the difference isn't clear and opinion (or wishful thinking) is presented as if it IS fact.  Is it harder than that?

[AntiBeeSpray]

22 minutes ago, Moose135 said:

I guess it's time to stop shopping at Macy's.  And that too bad, I heard they have a big one-day sale coming up. ;-)

Yep. Screw you, Macy's.

 

15 minutes ago, Padma said:

Fake news isn't factual.  Sometimes, when it involves the mixture of fact and opinion, the difference isn't clear and opinion (or wishful thinking) is presented as if it IS fact.  Is it harder than that?

Some people are very easily fooled. Fake news counts on it.

[sistermagpie]

36 minutes ago, AntiBeeSpray said:

Some people are very easily fooled. Fake news counts on it.

And really the bigger problem isn't just being fooled as not caring about the facts because the facts just don't seem to be your friend. I mean, anyone can be fooled by something that sounds real and seems like it comes from a legit source. Some of the recent stuff is so nuts it's understandable how somebody could think some other crazy thing is also true--it's like when John Oliver was listing Hillary's scandals and he intentionally made up a fake one and said...but you thought you remembered it when I talked about it, right? Plus Trump is such a liar himself he continually keeps people off balance by denying things he's literally said or having his surrogates say totally different things than he does.

But the one thing to fight against it is actually wanting and demanding the facts. Like that one fake-news creator said in his interview (and this has been stated when discussing other fake news makers as well)--he'd made fake news in both directions, but it just didn't go viral on the liberal side. He said it would usually be debunked within a few comments and then fizzle out. Fizzle out not because liberals can't ever be biased or are so automatically smart, imo, (sometimes they do fall for things too, certainly) but I think because wanting things that are factually true is a value they aspire to. There's just no reason to stick to facts (even if you're interpretation of those facts is going to reflect your pre-held beliefs) if nobody is demanding them and we've seen how hard some people will fight to cling to their non-facts. It seems to be many levels deep too--that is, you've got plenty of people who want to teach this rejection of facts to their children starting at a young age. So there's a lot of people brought up to think critical thinking is evil and wrong and it's a good thing to reject it. 

[KIMBERLYANN11]

I am finding some of the very excellent satire that's out there to be confusing at times.  I got taken in by a meme last week, thinking it was a genuine post by a genuine person.  It had someone insisting that Dunkin' Donuts was giving out donuts with arabic writing calling for "Shakira" law.  My 18 year old had to tell me to chill - it's satire. Nobody is that stupid.  The problem is that I have seen so much that is that stupid, I'm having a problem seeing where the stupid ends and the satire starts.  Or maybe this whole damn year has made  me lose my sense of humor.

Oh - and we decided that when you're under Shakira law, your hips can't lie.

[DollEyes]

More media tweets Re Russia & Election 2016:

From Lawrence O'Donnell:

Quote

There are many reasons for what Trump says and does but the one constant is that he's a profoundly stupid man.

 Next, Matthew Dowd:

Quote

Think about the gop and trump reaction if the CIA said Iran hacked into the RNC to help Clinton win. Have some principles. Now.

Here's Ana Navarro's take on the "12 Days Of Christmas" :

Quote

Trump gave to us: 5 Establishment Republicans, 4 billionaires, 3 current congresspeople, 2 generals and a partridge in a pear tree.

[Duke Silver]

https://twitter.com/mattmfm/status/807685349195522048

[stormy]

I saw Michael Smirconish on CNN with Poppy Harlow this afternoon.   After playing the clip of his brouhaha with Shawn Spicer, Smirconish was a bit peeved at himself for not pointing out to Spicer, that in WI, MA and PA, Hillary lost by a total of 70,000 votes and that she won the popular vote by nearly 3 million (so far).

Edited December 11, 2016 by stormy

[Padma]

And even though Repubs blocked at least one recount, the states had to "correct" the totals for Trump down from 107,000 to 70,000 (roughly) before the counting even began. That was pretty fishy, but of course Democrats made nothing of it.

[editorgrrl]

From the "What Next?" thread:

16 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

When Teen Vogue has better reporting than major outlets... http://www.teenvogue.com/story/donald-trump-is-gaslighting-america

From the link:

Quote

Trump has repeatedly attempted to undermine the press, including such well-respected publications as the New York Times. He has disseminated a wealth of unsubstantiated attacks on the media, though this baseless tweet from April pretty much sums it all up, "How bad is the New York Times—the most inaccurate coverage constantly. Always trying to belittle. Paper has lost its way!" 

As a candidate, Trump's gas lighting was manipulative, as President-elect it is a deliberate attempt to destabilize journalism as a check on the power of government. 

To be clear, the "us" here is everyone living under Trump. It's radical progressives, hardline Republicans, and Jill Stein's weird cousin. The President of the United States cannot be lying to the American electorate with zero accountability. The threat of deception is not a partisan issue. Trump took advantage of the things that divide this country, pitting us against one another, while lying his way to the Oval Office.

[DollEyes]

Another tweet, from Matthew Dowd: 

Quote

So Trump knows more about business than Wall Street Journal, more about military than Generals, and more about intelligence than CIA? Wow

[izabella]

The media are SO irritating, SO full of stories this morning about what John Bolton has to say to about the Russian election hacking scandal, SO full of John Bolton blaming the Obama administration for it, somehow. 

Um, news media?  Bolton hasn't been briefed on a damned thing so his opinion is worth shit.