S03.E08: No More Blood

[wanderingstar]

Did Annalise really yell, "Do it! Do it for me!" when Frank had that gun to his chin? Damn, these people are in serious thrall to this woman.

[J.D.]

18 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

I'd also add as jaded as we may be, having a gay character on a non cable show obviously giving a BJ might also earn them an parental advisory warning. 

LOL.... yep.  That could do it.  

[Milaxx]

3 minutes ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Did Annalise really yell, "Do it! Do it for me!" when Frank had that gun to his chin? Damn, these people are in serious thrall to this woman.

She sure did.

[lulee]

Having a $400 duvet cover doesn't mean that Michaela paid $400. I could see Michaela sneaking into Tuesday Morning or wherever and getting nice-label things for basement prices, but still referring to them as pricey.

[rubyred]

So this kind of flew by in the general drama of it all, but am I wrong in thinking Bonnie actually urged Frank to go ahead and kill MahoneyAlibiWoman and/or her kid for Annaliese's sake, despite Anna telling him not to?

[RedheadZombie]

1 hour ago, Keepitmoving said:

Exactly, you and I are on the same wave length when it comes to Michaela. Snobs don't take note of how sensitive their boyfriends are and no, she did not make note of that as if it were a negative trait in him. Snobs don't form the kind of sisterly relationship she has with Connor and then let him and her boyfriend practically take over her apt.. because they apparently feel safe there with her. Just bye to all this Michaela is a snob stuff, I'm over it.  I don't even see a snob having the kind of admiration she once had for Anna. Once again, I think she has issues with her own self worth, while that woman who was supposed to become her mother in -law, she to me was acting like the text book definition of a snob.

Isn't it always fucking with us? It's what this show does best.

Snobs do all of those things.  They're snobs, not sociopaths.

I made one comment, one, so I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say, "Just bye to all this Michaela is a snob stuff, I'm over it".  I'm doing what everyone else is doing - commenting on the characters of this show.  People criticize my favorites all the time but I restrain myself from telling them to leave.   I respectfully disagree on a character, and I'm sure I'm being a little touchy.  But maybe we should stop here.

1 hour ago, doram said:

For some reason, I just can't see Michaela as a snob. She's too damaged - has always been portrayed as someone who was neurotic about her Perfect Princess image (remember when Connor said on the night of Sam's death that her brain had "broken" because that image was fracturing) for me to see her as a genuine, Grew-Up-With-A-Silver-Spoon-In-Her-Mouth Rich Girl. And the show has never shown her to be petty about wealth. If anything, she's petty about smarts and getting an academic/professional advantage over her mates. Which is kind of what you expect from someone who's only ever had that card to play. 

(Although this might be personal for me. I have no problem with women and minorities being conceited about their intelligence. I think present-day society goes out of its way to shame or dismiss them so it's always uplifting to see people like Michaela, and Annalisse really, who are arrogant about how much smarter they are than everyone else). 

Michaela might have gone though college and some post-graduate education on a full scholarship if she worked hard enough for one. And from all indications, she worked really hard to get herself out of that "backwater bayou" that she came from. It doesn't explain a lot of the expensive stuff she has, or her lifestyle so either the show's going to delve into that some more (reveal, for example, that she inherited a small nest-egg from her biological parents) or they'll just hand-wave it that she somehow managed to finish top of her class in her pre-law/pre-med degree while holding down 2 jobs and speculating in the stock market or something. 

I'm pretty sure you're not deliberately connecting my comment with yours defending women and minorities being conceited about their intelligence (implying I disagree), but I need to stress that I said nothing of the kind.  I'm still pretty salty about the election, so I don't wish to be grouped with the basket of deplorables. 

56 minutes ago, Tiger said:

Between her work ethic, ambition and token status, Ive always thought Michaela was on multiple scholarships that enabled her to not only not pay tuition and also live comfortably.

Then things have changed dramatically since I've gone to college.

[dgpolo]

3 minutes ago, rubyred said:

So this kind of flew by in the general drama of it all, but am I wrong in thinking Bonnie actually urged Frank to go ahead and kill MahoneyAlibiWoman and/or her kid for Annaliese's sake, despite Anna telling him not to?

I was a bit confused about the timing of this also, when Bonnie said that those were my thoughts exactly. That she was telling him to go back in to kill her, but right at that moment Annalise came in with the burner phone, so then he went in to place the call to the burner phone, from the house.

But Bonnie told him to go back in the house before the phone became part of it all.

[Tiger]

29 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

I'd also add as jaded as we may be, having a gay character on a non cable show obviously giving a BJ might also earn them a parental advisory warning. 

Wait, when did they happen?

It was clear Connor was about to get pounded in the shower with Oliver (again).  

But I couldnt understand what Connor & Thomas were saying.  Did one just finish giving the other a blowjob?

[Milaxx]

14 minutes ago, rubyred said:

So this kind of flew by in the general drama of it all, but am I wrong in thinking Bonnie actually urged Frank to go ahead and kill MahoneyAlibiWoman and/or her kid for Annaliese's sake, despite Anna telling him not to?

Yes she did. Bonnie has proven she will literally do anything for Annalise if she feels it's needed. Remember it was Bonnie who killed Rebecca.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Milaxx

[Milaxx]

Just now, Tiger said:

Wait, when did they happen?

It was clear Connor was about to get pounded in the shower with Oliver (again).  

But I couldnt understand what Connor & Thomas were saying.  Did one just finish giving the other a blowjob?

I feel kinda dirty having to explain this. In the scene with Connor & Thomas,  Connor was not only giving him a BJ, but it appears that Thomas ejaculated on Connor's face. Hence the reason Thomas apologized and tossed him the black towel to clean his face. The implication is that Connor was wiping cum off his face.

[Tiger]

8 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

Snobs do all of those things.  They're snobs, not sociopaths.

I made one comment, one, so I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say, "Just bye to all this Michaela is a snob stuff, I'm over it".  I'm doing what everyone else is doing - commenting on the characters of this show.  People criticize my favorites all the time but I restrain myself from telling them to leave.   I respectfully disagree on a character, and I'm sure I'm being a little touchy.  But maybe we should stop here.

I'm pretty sure you're not deliberately connecting my comment with yours defending women and minorities being conceited about their intelligence (implying I disagree), but I need to stress that I said nothing of the kind.  I'm still pretty salty about the election, so I don't wish to be grouped with the basket of deplorables. 

Then things have changed dramatically since I've gone to college.

I dont known when you went to college, but when I went at literally the beginning of the 00's there were tons of scholarships available that required very little work to get or maintain.  Between my grades, extracariculars, and technically being a minority, I lived very comfortably in college and grad school.  

I also know straight white guys that got scholarships, so you didnt have to be a minority to get them.  You did have to have steller grades and extracirculars no matter who you were to get them.

At least back then, lot of scholarships went unused because people simply didnt even apply.  We had a woman in the guidance office whose entire job was helping students get scholarships.  

[Keepitmoving]

I'd really like more background on Connor. Really, what is his story?

[Tiger]

5 minutes ago, Milaxx said:

I feel kinda dirty having to explain this. In the scene with Connor & Thomas,  Connor was not only giving him a BJ, but it appears that Thomas ejaculated on Connor's face. Hence the reason Thomas apologized and tossed him the black towel to clean his face. The implication is that Connor was wiping cum off his face.

Okay, but what did Thomas & Connor actually say?

ETA: Connor's face looked clean, so I guess he swallows : )

Edited November 12, 2016 by Tiger

[Milaxx]

Scene started with a close up of a bottle of lube and Thomas saying "Oops." Then he tosses the towel (or is that someone's underwear? Connor typically wear black briefs) to Connor. Connor comes up from under the covers wiping his face. (Convo starts about .40 in).

Connor says, "Happens". Thomas says, "Can it er, happen again?"

Edited November 12, 2016 by Milaxx

[Milaxx]

10 minutes ago, Keepitmoving said:

I'd really like more background on Connor. Really, what is his story?

Yes this. He's overdo for some background info. We haven't gotten anything about him since the Christmas scene (?) in season 1. 

[KaveDweller]

4 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Right. You would think that Oliver committed some major crime from some of these comments. He is practically a saint to compared to everyone else on this show. Also, not only did Oliver admit what he did soon after, Connor never had a shot of going Stanford with failing grades so the outrage is so over the top.

I agree Oliver is a saint compared to everyone else, but he never admitted what he did to Connor. He let it slip to Analise, and she told Connor.  The sad part is if they had left town to go to Stanford, Connor would no longer have reason to lie and could be in a better place.

[Milaxx]

I don't think Oliver is anything close to a saint. He's just one of the few that hasn't murdered or helped cover up a murder. However, I'd be royally pissed if I moved across country based on a lie. If Connor continually feels he has to lie to protect Oliver, how could he ever truly feel safe. 

[J.D.]

@Tiger, @Milaxx..... your Connor / Thomas conversation was cracking me up.  Oh lawd!!!!  

[Deanie87]

1 hour ago, Milaxx said:

I'd also add as jaded as we may be, having a gay character on a non cable show obviously giving a BJ might also earn them a parental advisory warning. 

And if I'm not mistaken there was some lube and other things in plain view on the bedside table.  That could do it too!

[DearEvette]

20 hours ago, Milaxx said:

I find it hysterical that Asher/Michaela/Connor all seem to love Michaela's floral robe.

I love this.  it feels like a ceremonial friendship robe.

17 hours ago, NUguy514 said:

Oliver can go fuck himself.  He actually isn't entitled to know every detail of Connor's work life, and his incessant badgering of Connor to tell him everything about said work life has nothing to do with wanting Connor to be open and honest with him and everything to do with wanting to be in the perceived inner circle.  I loved Oliver so much last season, but they have made him into such an unbelievable asshole with this bullshit and the turning down Stanford behind Connor's back and the breaking up with Connor for shit I'm still not clear about.  I'm glad Connor fucked Thomas, and I will delight in Oliver's pain when he finds out.  Serves him right.

Yeah.  This is my take.  But then again I've never liked Oliver. He could've been under the sheet and I would have been super happy.  He always seemed way to eager to be included in all the Ana shit.  And knowing what we do about the K5 and how toxic they all are when they are together, I think Connor was right to try to keep him as much in the dark as he could.  I do see Oliver as being the one thing of normalcy in Connor's life during all the shit going down and that is probably why he clung to him and probably why he tried to keep him out of Ana's clutches.  To keep him normal.  But from a relationship standpoint that isn't a bad thing.  At least Connor's action toward Oliver seemed to come from trying to protect him.  Meanwhile Oliver's declining the acceptance, telling Stanford not to contact Connor and not being the one to actually fess up about it came from a place of pure selfishness.  Also now that he has his toe in with Ana he conveniently dumps Connor.  It feels awfully like he was using Connor too.

8 hours ago, doram said:

Can Connor move out of Michaela's house already, please? Between having sex in her bed, smashing her coffee table, barging into her bedroom mid-coitus, and probably leeching off her food and electricity and wifi for free, he's turned in the world's worst houseguest. The show keeps trying to sell them as these ride-or-die BFFs, but I just see it as totally one-dimensional with Connor getting all the perks of the relationship and Michaela getting all the abuse. I still can't get over how he gloated over Aiden's new engagement to her. Like, was that shit supposed to be funny?

As much as I like Connor he does take more than he gives. Michaela is usually giving him support.  The last time I can remember Connor being there for her was when they discovered who Eggs was.  I hope we get some more parity in that friendship.

[secnarf]

1 hour ago, rubyred said:

So this kind of flew by in the general drama of it all, but am I wrong in thinking Bonnie actually urged Frank to go ahead and kill MahoneyAlibiWoman and/or her kid for Annaliese's sake, despite Anna telling him not to?

The first time I watched, this is what I thought, but the second time, I thought she was telling him to make the call - we only saw later on that AK had come in with the burner phone. I think they were a bit too keen to surprise us with the flashback, though, that they ended up confusing the audience by showing the storyline out of order and not telling us which pieces came when.

[Milaxx]

Why is keeping secrets from your partner, even in his so called best interest a good thing? I'm a grown up. I expect the person I love and hope to spend the rest of my life with to trust me with the truth both good and bad. If it's bad we can fight it together as the unit we are supposed to be. Connor lying and repeatedly saying "you'll get in trouble" just sound hypocritical when Oliver already  committing cyber crime on the regular. Especially when both Connor & Micheala repeatedly get mad at Wes & Laurel for keeping secrets.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Milaxx

[RedheadZombie]

Why do I think Connor is a rich kid?  Where did he live before Oliver?

[Milaxx]

I didn't get rich kid from Connor. Maybe upper middle class. His family did have enough money to send him to boarding school (where he met Aiden), but the brief shot of the house in that Christmas episode wasn't insane. He was also impressed at the thought of how rich Laurel might be. Before Oliver he lived in an apartment but I don't think we've ever seen it.

[possibilities]

I think Connor and Oliver both share blame for the mess of their relationship. Also, when Connor participated in the post-murder-of-Sam cover up, he and Oliver were very new in their relationship. I don't think Connor's keeping the truth from Oliver was purely to protect Oliver at that time. I think he was using Oliver for his own comfort, and protecting himself as well as their relationship because if he seriously thought his new boyfriend was going to be willing to just handwave the murder/cover up, that would have made Oliver no longer a refuge of sanity in the chaos, and it would have also been one hell of a gamble because how many people would be willing to go along with that?

Keeping work secrets is one thing, but "My colleagues and I just burned and dismembered and threw away a corpse one of them accidentally murdered" is the kind of secret that goes way beyond the usual work secret. I think it's reasonably the sort of thing you aren't supposed to do at work, and the kind of secret that your significant other would possibly sense was more than just the usual confidentiality of cases.

I want to know more about Oliver's backstory. We know exactly zero about his family or life before Connor, really. He does seem to be very drawn to the illegalities of Anna's practice, and to find them exciting and to not feel any qualms at all about vigilante justice. So maybe he WOULD be the sort of person who'd be down for a murder/dismemberment cover up. My hope is that we find out soon.

[jhlipton]

10 hours ago, Dee said:

They work much better, at least for me, as an Oedipus and Electra Complex tormented version of Nick and Nora Charles.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around this -- gaily sipping cocktails while fixated on one's opposite-gender parent!

3 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

I believe that mention of some meth cousin, didn't she say meth as in drugs?

She said that her mother would ask for money for herself or for a meth-addicted cousin.  So Mom might be stealing for the cousin in the present.

2 hours ago, rubyred said:

So this kind of flew by in the general drama of it all, but am I wrong in thinking Bonnie actually urged Frank to go ahead and kill MahoneyAlibiWoman and/or her kid for Annaliese's sake, despite Anna telling him not to?

That's what I thought too, but I was confused by the timeline (easy to be with this show!

 

1 minute ago, possibilities said:

Keeping work secrets is one thing, but "My colleagues and I just burned and dismembered and threw away a corpse one of them accidentally murdered" is the kind of secret that goes way beyond the usual work secret. I think it's reasonably the sort of thing you aren't supposed to do at work, and the kind of secret that your significant other would possibly sense was more than just the usual confidentiality of cases.

Just maybe. [snort]

[Milaxx]

3 minutes ago, jhlipton said:

2 hours ago, rubyred said:

So this kind of flew by in the general drama of it all, but am I wrong in thinking Bonnie actually urged Frank to go ahead and kill MahoneyAlibiWoman and/or her kid for Annaliese's sake, despite Anna telling him not to?

That's what I thought too, but I was confused by the timeline (easy to be with this show!

That what I got as well, and the only thing that stopped him from going back in to do it was AK walking in with an alternate plan to use the burners instead.

[love2lovebadtv]

23 hours ago, Milaxx said:

He probably did indeed kill the girlfriend he was on trial for in the first place since his father was willing to go to such lengths to get him free.

The wiki may be helpful.

My bad. I thought the son's name was David. Let me correct.

I think David was Wes' name before it was changed. 

[Milaxx]

Wes's name was Christophe. I just had a brain fart and somehow came up with the name David.

[sking24450]

1 minute ago, love2lovebadtv said:

I think David was Wes' name before it was changed. 

Wes' name was Christoph

[love2lovebadtv]

1 minute ago, sking24450 said:

Wes' name was Christoph

Oh, that's right! David is the little boy I used to teach who looks like Wes and I guess that's why I like him so much.  And it so happens he was a Harry Potter fan. 

[love2lovebadtv]

21 hours ago, Milaxx said:

Agreed. I feel a crash and burn coming from Frank.  I low key want it to be Nate, but I think Frank just has too much blood on his hands. Like Annalise said, he let her go on for all those years not knowing, watching Sam/Annalise's marriage fail apart under the strain of baby Sam dying.

I'm sorry but that relationship was doomed the moment Sam decided to cheat in his previous wife and sleep with his patient, knowing she'd be "easy." 

I do feel for her losing her baby, though. And I agree frank should have told her earlier. Sam manipulated them both. 

[Milaxx]

1 minute ago, love2lovebadtv said:

I'm sorry but that relationship was doomed the moment Sam decided to cheat in his previous wife and sleep with his patient, knowing she'd be "easy." 

I don't disagree, but the fact remains that Sam and AK were a happy couple at one point in time. The death of baby Sam was the beginning of the end. 

[love2lovebadtv]

11 hours ago, Dee said:

I'd dig Wes and Laurel a lot more if the writers weren't so intent on having them declare their love for each other right now.

It's way too early in their relationship, even with all the the extenuating circumstances considered, for them to be acting like Oliver and Jenny from Love Story.

They work much better, at least for me, as an Oedipus and Electra Complex tormented version of Nick and Nora Charles.

I know, right! 

[love2lovebadtv]

10 hours ago, Deanie87 said:

Is it bad that I would have been semi-okay with the hairy, bearded Frank being under the sheet, but now I will be 100% devastated if its buzz-cut, clean-shaven, shirtless, Frank?  Because I will be.  He and Bonnie have renewed my interest in this show and I desperately need them to be together.  The collegiate canoodling of Wes/Laurel/Asher/Michaela will be put to shame beside the dysfunctional, murderous, orphan love Fronnie/Bank.  God and Annalise willing.

Such a weird statement. I totally get it. 

[Nanrad]

Honestly, if I were in Oliver's situation and Connor was lying to me about something like that, I'd either want them to break up with me or not tell me at all. Most of the stuff Connor can't mention is either client-attorney stuff or flat out illegal--I don't want to become accessory after the fact, being question, or being forced to turn them in (with probable cause to doubt my safety). So, Connor saying he can't tell him or whatever the says isn't Connor lying--it is protecting him. Either Oliver should have accepted that or left. Connor does use Oliver for safety, but he does genuinely love and want to be with him as well.

I take more issue with Oliver because Connor has basically let it be known that he shouldn't get involved with AK and Oliver does so anyway. He destroys the admissions letter, kinda acts as if the breakup was Connors fault despite not telling Connor why they broke up other them him needing space, upset that Connor is sleeping around, and then goes back to Connor because Thomas didn't want him. Oliver isn't a bad person, but he ai't looking too good here either.

Someone can correct me on this, but wasn't Michaela adopted, which is where she gets the money from? 

[Milaxx]

Connor is lying so that Oliver doesn't find out about Sam and to a lessor extent Rebecca. It's the cover up of those 2 murders that have the K5 going all hush, hush secretive and it's a huge part of his life. That's not protecting Oliver, that's protecting the K5.  Oliver committing cyber theft was how they met in the first place and Connor initiated that. How can you trust someone who is clearly hiding a huge part of his life from you "for your protection"?  Oliver is a grown up, not some damsel in distress to be kept locked safely away and Connor isn't a knght in shining armor. Oliver isn't perfect and he did a really crappy thing, but Connor is so desperate to preserve some image of saint Oliver he forgives it? That's not healthy. Come clean or break it off.

Michaela's adoptive parents are who she's referring to and they weren't wealthy. She's never known her birth parents.

[dezi]

Oliver knows, by Connor’s own admission, that Connor is keeping things from him. If that is too much for him to take then he should walk away. I think he is an absolutely terrible person for keeping Connor on the hook for whenever he needs to feels better about himself. Then he berates and puts Connor down for doing exactly what he [Oliver] is doing. Other than it being hypocritical and manipulative, it reeks of emotional abuse. Connor is a terrible person, too, but at least he acknowledges it and doesn’t shit all over the person he claims to love.

Agreed that he has to get off Michaela’s couch. I can’t enjoy their friendship when it has been so one-sided for so long. Asher and Michaela might be growing on me. I like that they can be on opposite sides of the Wes issue but still come together for a cuddle and a head rub.

I’ll be very surprised if Frank and Laurel didn’t sleep together. If anyone can cheat on her boyfriend, convincingly lie to his face about it and then play the part of the most devoted girlfriend in history, its Laurel. I hope I’m wrong but I don’t see how, or why, Show would pass up the opportunity for a WTD storyline.

[bantering]

9 hours ago, SimoneS said:

I don't see why Wes would be conflicted about lying. Wes' father raped his mother and his brother killed his girlfriend and got away with it. If anything there has got to be a sense of satisfaction of sticking it to the Mahoneys who destroyed his life. 

I think it's the accumulation of lies that I think would be hard to deal with. He has to keep lying to protect himself, and I feel like that could take a toll, even when it's justified. Having to perjure oneself when you're a law student seems like it would be anxiety-inducing, based on everything you've been taught about how the law works.

Even though his dad was a dirtbag, he did seem to have an interest in meeting him. I don't think he has affection for his dad necessarily, but the fact that he wanted to meet with him does make me think his feelings for his dad aren't black and white either.

Edited November 12, 2016 by bantering

[Chicago Redshirt]

6 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

Yeah, I'm not saying that Michaela paid the rent, but I do believe that any dime she's ever made her family members have tried to hit her up for it. That's what I took from her saying that her mom was only calling for money, that and I believe that mention of some meth cousin, didn't she say meth as in drugs? That's what I thought I heard, so it could very well be that her mom has a drug habit for all we know. She tells her mother before leaving to go find out if Asher is OK, to not steal anything. Why on earth would you have to worn your own mother not to steal from you unless she's got some addictive habits? Because as I don't see her as a heartless, selfish, snob, if she had a mom that really needed money to pay the bills I can't see her not sending a few dollars home when she could. But if you have drug habit, I'm not sending money to support that habit and the questionable family members and associates you are still surrounding yourself with.

And yeah, I do wonder where Michaela has gotten her money? Where was she before undergrad and law school? That's what I was wondering when she said that she said goodbye to her mother a long time ago. I was wondering how long was that? Did she leave home before going to college? How was she making money?

I imagine that Aiden bought a ton of stuff for MIchaela while the two of them were together. 

[muessigkeit]

49 minutes ago, dezi said:

Oliver knows, by Connor’s own admission, that Connor is keeping things from him. If that is too much for him to take then he should walk away.

What people always forget is that Oliver did try to walk away. After they had broken up before Sam's murder (because Connor cheated on him) Oliver did not want to get back together Connor, but Connor deliberately wormed his way back into Oliver's life. He used the drug addiction he pretended to have as emotional blackmail to make Oliver let him stay ("If you throw me out right now, I can't guarantee that I'm gonna go straight to a dealer and buy an eightball." (1x11) and when Oliver told Connor "You know how you can't do drugs; that's how you are to me" Connor countered with more emotional manipulation by saying that Oliver was "the only one in [his] life [he] could trust." (don't have time to find the episode right now; will amend later) Connor also moved into Oliver's apartment without any prior discussion. Just came to Oliver's door with boxes of his stuff and said "It's done, Ollie. I'm already subletting my apartment." (2x01) Connor has been using Oliver as a security blanket ever since his freak-out after murdering Sam. Oliver wasn't wrong about that; he just has no idea why.

[Nanrad]

I'm not saying Connor is faultless here, but that doesn't excuse what Oliver is doing either. Because, as of now, most of what's going on lies at his feet. He destroyed the admissions letter so Connor wouldn't leave, he got himself hired by AK despite Connor warning him against it, he broke up, and then went back to Connor after facing the reality of how hard it would be for a man to date who is positive. And during the break up, he kept telling Connor, I believe, that that's something he's going to have to learn to deal with.

In the beginning, I can excuse Oliver for staying around despite Connor's shifty nature--now, it's on Oliver because he could have and did leave, and went back to Connor for the same reasons he's accusing Connor of being with him: safety blanket. 

[dezi]

1 hour ago, muessigkeit said:

What people always forget is that Oliver did try to walk away. After they had broken up before Sam's murder (because Connor cheated on him) Oliver did not want to get back together Connor, but Connor deliberately wormed his way back into Oliver's life. He used the drug addiction he pretended to have as emotional blackmail to make Oliver let him stay ("If you throw me out right now, I can't guarantee that I'm gonna go straight to a dealer and buy an eightball." (1x11) and when Oliver told Connor "You know how you can't do drugs; that's how you are to me" Connor countered with more emotional manipulation by saying that Oliver was "the only one in [his] life [he] could trust." (don't have time to find the episode right now; will amend later) Connor also moved into Oliver's apartment without any prior discussion. Just came to Oliver's door with boxes of his stuff and said "It's done, Ollie. I'm already subletting my apartment." (2x01) Connor has been using Oliver as a security blanket ever since his freak-out after murdering Sam. Oliver wasn't wrong about that; he just has no idea why.

My memory of those events is not as good as yours but I remember Oliver getting huffy because Connor had sex with someone other than him. I can’t call it cheating because Oliver had no reason to believe they were in an exclusive relationship. If I remember correctly all signs pointed to the opposite. Connor did do those things and that’s part of the reason that relationship is nothing but dysfunction. But he has gone out of his way to protect Oliver’s heart, which is what I expect from someone who claims to be in love. Unlike Oliver who has used Connor for self-gratification while simultaneously denigrating him. I do not have a problem with the veracity of Oliver’s words. What I take issue with is the ease with which he tears Connor to shreds, on top of all the other mistreatment he has thrown Connor’s way as of late and his complete lack of self-awareness.

[Panopticon]

6 hours ago, Milaxx said:

It's the cover up of those 2 murders that have the K5 going all hush, hush secretive and it's a huge part of his life. That's not protecting Oliver, that's protecting the K5.  

Even if Connor's only motivation for his "I can't tell you that" were to keep the secrets of the K5 rather than to leave Oliver with plausible deniability, that's not a mistreatment of Oliver per se. Some couples do that-- they say, I promised my friend I would keep this confidential, and my relationship with Friend is apart from my relationship with you unless the secret directly affects you. Other couples don't-- they tell their friends, any confidence you share with me I will share with Partner, even if it has nothing to do with him. 

If Connor falls into category A and Oliver falls into category B, they might be fundamentally incompatible, but neither is wrong. 

[SimoneS]

10 hours ago, muessigkeit said:

What people always forget is that Oliver did try to walk away. After they had broken up before Sam's murder (because Connor cheated on him) Oliver did not want to get back together Connor, but Connor deliberately wormed his way back into Oliver's life. He used the drug addiction he pretended to have as emotional blackmail to make Oliver let him stay ("If you throw me out right now, I can't guarantee that I'm gonna go straight to a dealer and buy an eightball." (1x11) and when Oliver told Connor "You know how you can't do drugs; that's how you are to me" Connor countered with more emotional manipulation by saying that Oliver was "the only one in [his] life [he] could trust." (don't have time to find the episode right now; will amend later) Connor also moved into Oliver's apartment without any prior discussion. Just came to Oliver's door with boxes of his stuff and said "It's done, Ollie. I'm already subletting my apartment." (2x01) Connor has been using Oliver as a security blanket ever since his freak-out after murdering Sam. Oliver wasn't wrong about that; he just has no idea why.

Exactly. Oliver knew something was wrong, but Connor distracted him with the lie about having a drug addiction. Olli's misgivings have never gone away because Connor has always acted suspicious, not introducing him to his friends and his overall secretive behavior. As much as I love Connor, he only fell in love with and committed to Oliver because he felt desperate and alone after Sam's murder and the subsequent cover up. If it had not happened, more likely Connor would have just moved on to the next guy. More importantly, Connor should have never used Olli like that, if he couldn't tell him the truth, he should have ended the relationship instead of pursuing Olli harder. Even the much maligned Wes did the right thing and ended it with Meggie. I do think that Ollie was right to end the relationship with Connor and is wrong to get back involved with him, but at point I don't think that it matters because Olli will find out their secrets soon enough.

I love Olli and Connor as a couple and hope they work it out, but lies and deceptions have got to stop if they are going to make it.

Edited November 12, 2016 by SimoneS

[Grace19]

On Friday, November 11, 2016 at 5:01 AM, Lady Calypso said:

Asher/Michaela somehow went from my least favourite couple to my absolute OTP of the show. How are they so good together? But Asher picking up Michaela's phone, although with good intentions, is probably going to cause a rift between them for a bit.

I was one of the few that liked them from that club scene last season, but I'm still surprised at how I have come to love them, they are my favorite couple on the show.
 

 

[Grace19]

20 hours ago, LaJefaza said:

YES. Thank you. The nerve of him to break up with Connor for...not being angry that he sabotaged him? Did he ever even apologize properly for what he did? Wasn't it all because he didn't want Connor to leave, and then when Connor heard him out and understood his motivations and forgave him, Oliver just dumped him anyway? And now he's run back to Connor after getting rejected and realizing there may not actually be that many fish in the sea that would accept him, and Connor's taken him back... instead of a change in attitude, Oliver's back to being pushy, whiny, demanding? Oliver...boy, BYE.

This so much, I know I'm in the minority, but I never liked Oliver.

[Milaxx]

5 hours ago, dezi said:

My memory of those events is not as good as yours but I remember Oliver getting huffy because Connor had sex with someone other than him. I can’t call it cheating because Oliver had no reason to believe they were in an exclusive relationship.

But Connor did. He said as much when he drunkenly cried to that girl at the bar who told him to try bringing her flowers.  

 

5 hours ago, dezi said:

What I take issue with is the ease with which he tears Connor to shreds, on top of all the other mistreatment he has thrown Connor’s way as of late and his complete lack of self-awareness.

I think last argument completely articulated what's wrong with the relationship. Connor's continual lies make Oliver feel like he doesn't really know the person he's with. Connor treats him like this special refuge to hide away from the awfulness of his like with AK. Connor is damaged but instead of getting offended by Oliver pointing that out he needs to deal with it.  Neither is more right or wrong here, neither is better or worse. The only slight upper hand I see is that Oliver can verbalize the issues better.

[Grace19]

20 hours ago, doram said:

Can Connor move out of Michaela's house already, please? Between having sex in her bed, smashing her coffee table, barging into her bedroom mid-coitus, and probably leeching off her food and electricity and wifi for free, he's turned in the world's worst houseguest. The show keeps trying to sell them as these ride-or-die BFFs, but I just see it as totally one-dimensional with Connor getting all the perks of the relationship and Michaela getting all the abuse. I still can't get over how he gloated over Aiden's new engagement to her. Like, was that shit supposed to be funny?

Thank you, I like Conner, I really do, but, he's been very disrespectful to Michaela on this show, and as much as I love and enjoy his dynamic with Michaela and Asher, the show has never shown us why she would be friends with him, I still don't get why she can't be friends with Laurel.

The fact that most discussion surrounding Conner is based on Colivier, shows how the writers have badly treated Conner as a character on his own, and this is one of the reasons I think, Oliver should not have lasted beyond the first season. they should have waited a bit before giving him a permanent love interest.

I still don't trust Oliver, he is way too interested in what is going on with the Keaton gang.

As much as I love the keaton five, the heart of this show to me is Annalise, Bonnie and Frank and I don't want any of them to die. Please let it be Nate.

I still think Laurel might be the one who ends up dieing, the whole love triangle with Wes and Frank and the baby drama plays to me like they are setting up her exit. Not just her, I don't think anyone is safe, the real mystery might not even be who is under the sheet.

 

[bantering]

I don't think Michaela is a snob either. I think she's simply more neurotic than the other Keating 5. Which I kind of like. Because I feel you should be neurotic in this kind of bizarre life situation.  

Edited November 12, 2016 by bantering