dezi

I didn't say anything about anyone in this thread calling Mickey a saint. But pointing out his flaws is mostly met with bullying and intimidation across the internet. So yes, it is a rare occurrence.

Ian's purpose is not to serve Mickey's needs. Ian has his own trauma, even though he doesn't dwell on it and take it out on other people. He spent too much time giving Mickey patience and understanding, at his own expense. It was about time he put himself first. Pointing out the reasons Mickey is not a saint may be unpopular and a rare occurrence, but it is not oversimplification.

Yeah, they were just sort of friends, who have sex. That’s why self-loathing Mickey felt the need to gay-bash anyone else Ian had sex with. And stalk Ian on his date. That might be where Ian got the idea that there was something more. Ian finally summoned enough self-respect to stop being Mickey’s dirty secret and left. While he was away he developed bipolar disorder (because even while you’re throwing a tantrum about a fictional character it is not okay to be derogatory about mental illness). Then Mickey tracked him down and tried to pretend that the reasons Ian left didn’t exist, so that he could continue to get what he wanted out of him. When Ian reminded him that he still wasn’t prepared to live in the closet with him, Mickey tried to keep things as easy for himself as possible, with no consideration of what Ian wanted or needed. Until he realised Ian wasn’t his fuck puppet anymore and that he was about to lose him. Only then did Mickey make the decision to step out of the closet to be with Ian. And other than some physical and emotional damage, Mickey didn’t do much to Ian.

Fiona did not say any of the things about Mickey that she is being accused of. She did not once blame him for any of Ian’s past or current issues. She merely pointed out that, due to his fugitive status, Mickey was no good for Ian’s future. Fiona is not a Mickey/Gallavich fangirl. She is Ian’s sister. Of course she is going to try to dissuade him from getting back together with his fugitive ex. I really can’t see what else she would reasonably be expected to say.

Fiona is so full of shit. She has made no effort to repair her relationship with Vee. Instead she has just written it off as Vee having turned against her. The last time they spoke Vee told her they could discuss their issues later. Fiona refused and stormed out in a huff, and has not reached out to Vee since. Unfortunately, she's right that Svetlana is not to be trusted. I wish she had the same insight into her own faults, too. I felt for Lip, for maybe the first time ever. Then he went straight into self-destruct mode and ruined it.

That sounds about right. He also blames himself for Oliver's HIV status. Connor clearly has self-loathing issues, but that doesn't make either of those things true. Oliver is damaged too, but Connor doesn't feel the need to throw Oliver's shortcomings in his face at every turn. If Connor is treating him like a special refuge, what is it called when Oliver runs to him for validation after being rejected? I think they are both responsible for the dysfunction but Oliver is so mean-spirited.

My memory of those events is not as good as yours but I remember Oliver getting huffy because Connor had sex with someone other than him. I can’t call it cheating because Oliver had no reason to believe they were in an exclusive relationship. If I remember correctly all signs pointed to the opposite. Connor did do those things and that’s part of the reason that relationship is nothing but dysfunction. But he has gone out of his way to protect Oliver’s heart, which is what I expect from someone who claims to be in love. Unlike Oliver who has used Connor for self-gratification while simultaneously denigrating him. I do not have a problem with the veracity of Oliver’s words. What I take issue with is the ease with which he tears Connor to shreds, on top of all the other mistreatment he has thrown Connor’s way as of late and his complete lack of self-awareness.

Oliver knows, by Connor’s own admission, that Connor is keeping things from him. If that is too much for him to take then he should walk away. I think he is an absolutely terrible person for keeping Connor on the hook for whenever he needs to feels better about himself. Then he berates and puts Connor down for doing exactly what he [Oliver] is doing. Other than it being hypocritical and manipulative, it reeks of emotional abuse. Connor is a terrible person, too, but at least he acknowledges it and doesn’t shit all over the person he claims to love. Agreed that he has to get off Michaela’s couch. I can’t enjoy their friendship when it has been so one-sided for so long. Asher and Michaela might be growing on me. I like that they can be on opposite sides of the Wes issue but still come together for a cuddle and a head rub. I’ll be very surprised if Frank and Laurel didn’t sleep together. If anyone can cheat on her boyfriend, convincingly lie to his face about it and then play the part of the most devoted girlfriend in history, its Laurel. I hope I’m wrong but I don’t see how, or why, Show would pass up the opportunity for a WTD storyline.

Pretty sure it was Fiona who screwed that up. After she almost killed Liam no one wanted to bring their kids over anymore.

Torture porn is GoT’s Joffrey, who was already known to be a vile excuse for a human being, brutalising and murdering women no one cared about. It didn’t add anything to the story and it didn’t move anything forward. TWD is far from perfect but I feel like many of the deaths serve a significant purpose and/or reverberate throughout the series, or at least for multiple seasons. Actually, they have often shied away from much of the extreme violence in the source material. Torture porn, in this instance, would have been if it was say Aaron who was beaten to death and by next episode TF are back in Alexandria, unaffected and carrying on as normal. Diebartdie's post explains very well why this episode wasn’t that.

Are you suggesting that untreated or mismanaged mental illness is due to the selfishness of the one experiencing it? Or does that just apply to Ian? Even if they had used the palest white actress, this viewer would still appreciate that Ian wasn’t punished for his misguided compassion.

On a show where characters routinely get away with intentional acts of destruction and cruelty, I am perfectly okay with Ian getting a pass for his terrible mistake made with good intentions. I fully support Fiona’s new-found (again) ambition but she needs to quit carrying on like she didn’t already stop raising her siblings 3 seasons ago. How I wish she had left Liam with that couple in S3. Sure wanting to keep the family together was a nice sentiment, but she really failed him there. He had it good, with two attentive parents. Now he’s stuck being raised by anyone who can be bothered, raising himself, or worst of all being raised by Frank. Even after they saw what a rogue he was turning into under Frank’s influence they leave Liam with him again at the end of this episode. Poor kid doesn’t stand a chance.

I don't know that the show was prescribing either of those things but bipolar disorder and heroin use are not comparable. Sean has the ability to stop using heroin. Ian does not have the ability to stop being bipolar, no matter how hard he tries. Barring some miraculous breakthrough he never will have that ability.

Good to see Ian remember how to have basic human interactions. It was nice to see him taking his turn as Liam's caretaker seeing as the job is up for grabs. I'm back to enjoying him and Caleb. Although, they really need to quit it with the Mickey anecdotes. We get it; Caleb is the anti-Mickey and he's showing Ian a whole new world. Let the memory of Mickey rest in peace. But, of course, they'll never pass up the chance to remind us how amusing male rape is. We're back to season 5 Fiona. Disappointing. That impassioned speech she made to the judge back in season 3 now feels like it was just another Gallagher scam. Such a pity as it was one of my favourite moments of the series. I suppose I should be glad that she at least intended to take Liam with her. Carl must be the most successful small-time criminal in history. I wish he'd go away. For once I was glad that another pretty woman was inexplicably throwing herself at Lip. Anything to get rid of Helene. But, alas. I can't even get annoyed at Lip getting everything handed to him, anymore. It's beyond ridiculous. I don't get why Debbie moved back in. I thought she moved out in protest against Fiona and in preparation for when the baby comes. So, what's changed? I'm happy she's back but I'm confused.

Caleb probably knows that Ian risked his life to save a stranger's. He knows that Ian holds down a job, even though it's a job he hates. (Janitors deserve love too.) He also got to see Ian's care and concern for a stranger, first hand. Pretty sure he knows nothing about Ian's bipolar and living situation. The point of dating is usually to get to know someone better and most of the time, in my experience, it starts with physical attraction. This is the groundwork being laid. Neither of them have made any declarations of undying love yet. Ian was instantly smitten with Mickey after their first time. This was back when Mickey looked like he smelled bad (not Frank level bad but bad). All Ian knew about Mickey was that he was the local thug, terrorising Ian's boyfriend and saying mean things to Ian. Yet Ian couldn't get enough. I doubt Ian/Caleb will have longevity but their early days make far more sense than the early days of Ian/Mickey. I agree with your assessment of Ian's "dating" history and it explaining why he would have trouble being a good date. The way that this was shown is the problem. Ian is not a chatterbox and is not one to have deep emotional conversations. But Caleb was asking him the most basic of questions. There was no reason, even with his dysfunctional history with men, that Ian couldn't have engaged. I would have preferred it if they'd shown him getting tripped up by a deeper topic. That part of it just seemed like lazy writing at the expense of characterisation.