Scientology: Miscavige and Sons

[Wings]

1 hour ago, lordonia said:

It's interesting, as I browse around ex-Scientology sites, to see how many people leave that organization and then replace it with another belief system or religion. I'm not dissing that at all, but wonder if perhaps the people who are drawn to Scientology in the first place have a deeper need for structure and hierarchy.

Here's the pitch: Help save the planet, live a fulfilled and ethical life, experience peace, joy, and success beyond your wildest dreams. Just follow these rules; no need to think.

Personally, I hate being told what to do and would never give up my free will or sarcastic side eye view of life. I can understand the appeal, though, even as I mentally tsk at adherents for their intellectual laziness.

Yes on all. The initial draw is structure and if there from childhood you know nothing but.

I have difficulty with authority,  too.  If someone puts themselves on a pedestal, I take out my.chain saw. :^)

[DangerousMinds]

But how exactly are they saving the planet?

[Wings]

2 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

But how exactly are they saving the planet?

In their minds! I

[Brattinella]

3 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

But how exactly are they saving the planet?

They aren't.  It is like a sideshow at a carnival, drawing in the suckers with pretty words "Every game's a winnah!"

[spiderpig]

3 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

But how exactly are they saving the planet?

They'll tell you when you achieve OTLVIXX at a bargain price of 10 mil.

[Glade]

 

I watched this documentary on youtube about a struggling young actor who was lured into the scientology celebrity center, and I was blown away by his description of how much they were shaking him down for money.  It was almost too much to sit through even the description of it happening on a 24/7 basis.  Scientology sounds like it's practically a multi-level marketing scheme of pushing products and courses and crap on people, with sea org reg members having daily quotas for how much money they have to raise/bully out of people. 

[zxy556575]

Goodness. That's a sad and distressing story, but Steve still said at the end that yeah, Hubbard maybe wasn't such a great guy, but Scientology still has some good points if only Miscavige hadn't ruined it, and maybe reform could come, etc. This seems to happen a lot with former members who simply cannot allow themselves to accept that they were completely hoodwinked and used for years.

It's interesting that Steve had what can only be described as a negative experience from his very first interaction with the church as they hounded him for money, yet he persisted for four years because they promised him personal gain/success as an actor.

[spiderpig]

4 hours ago, Glade said:

 

 

I watched this documentary on youtube about a struggling young actor who was lured into the scientology celebrity center, and I was blown away by his description of how much they were shaking him down for money.  It was almost too much to sit through even the description of it happening on a 24/7 basis.  Scientology sounds like it's practically a multi-level marketing scheme of pushing products and courses and crap on people, with sea org reg members having daily quotas for how much money they have to raise/bully out of people. 

Yep - it's the Amway path to success and personal fulfillment.  We take cash, checks, credit cards, family estates...just sign on the dotted line.

[mbaywife123]

36 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

Yep - it's the Amway path to success and personal fulfillment.  We take cash, checks, credit cards, family estates...just sign on the dotted line.

This brought up memories of when I was in 5th grade and our neighbors (Mormon) down the block were really into Amway. The neighbors on our block avoided them and their hang-tags.

Edited December 25, 2016 by mbaywife123
Spelling

[zxy556575]

Something also struck me this week about children who are raised in or brought into Scientiology by their parents even later in life -- they really believe. How many people have we seen on the show whose children disconnected? I think all of them?

Contrast that to people who were brought up in other mainstream religions and have no problem ditching the teachings they were raised with -- probably a million Catholics alone!

It kind of reinforces how good Scientology is at indoctrination and cultish mind control. You'd think the children of someone like Rinder, for example, would listen to a man who was formerly at the highest level of the organization -- and THEIR FATHER -- when he tells them the church is bogus. But no.

[GreyBunny]

On 12/14/2016 at 0:41 PM, justjen said:

The Church of Scientology in Atlanta is 1.2 miles away from me (not far from a Waffle House) and I would be willing to try to get audited For the Cause. I think I did it once in college for a free tshirt or hacky sack or something.

If you want to know what it's like for someone who just walks in off the street and gives scientology a try, including attending the basic courses and learning how to audit, give this podcast a listen.  They did a whopping 9-part podcast on their experiences (and would have done more except they got rumbled and kicked out).    

http://maximumfun.org/shows/oh-no-ross-and-carrie?page=1

In their latest pod, they interview Chris Shelton, who appears in Leah's AMA episode.   He had been in scientology for 27 years and the Sea Org for 17 years (and wrote a book about it) and here he discusses the higher OT levels and Xenu/Xemu.

http://maximumfun.org/shows/oh-no-ross-and-carrie

Edited December 28, 2016 by GreyBunny

[zxy556575]

2 hours ago, TaraS1 said:

I just finished Leah's book and she mentioned how a Scientologist couldn't just donate money to the Red Cross to help with something like Hurricane Katrina. You have to give the money to Scientology first and they supposedly send help in those kinds of situations. Riiight. You know that money goes right into Miscavige's pocket. She said they couldn't show her a single instance where even a bottle of water was handed out on behalf of the Church.

I can't remember which, but one of the anti-Scientology sites I've run across recently has photos of members "helping" after a disaster by setting up a tent, handing out their pamphlets, and doing "touch assist" on people.

Here's at least one instance of their volunteer "ministers" providing direct assistance (mostly for PR is my guess).

[Guest]

On ‎12‎/‎23‎/‎2016 at 5:36 PM, mbaywife123 said:

$cientology: The most expensive book club in history.

Your membership lasts for a billion years or until you run out of money or write a bad review.

This is one of the funniest things I ever read, so I'm quoting it so everyone can read it and appreciate it again. :)

[TaraS1]

25 minutes ago, lordonia said:

I can't remember which, but one of the anti-Scientology sites I've run across recently has photos of members "helping" after a disaster by setting up a tent, handing out their pamphlets, and doing "touch assist" on people.

Can you imagine having just gone through some terrible ordeal and one of these oddballs hands you a pamphlet and wants to put their hands on you?  I think I'd be giving them a 'touch assist' back, with my fist.

[juliet73]

Scientology claims they are saving the planet, but I have never seen anything about them helping to bring clean water to countries that desperately need it, or helping to fight the AIDS epidemic in Africa,  or donating food and medical supplies to third world countries, etc.

Hopefully, government officials will soon see Scientology not as a "church", but as business that steals people's money, is involved in human trafficking and physical/sexual/mental abuse, and God only knows what else!

[Wings]

Their vibe is helping the planet and the notion that COS will grow to take over the world as the only religion.  Something like that.

[Evil Queen]

2 hours ago, juliet73 said:

Scientology claims they are saving the planet, but I have never seen anything about them helping to bring clean water to countries that desperately need it, or helping to fight the AIDS epidemic in Africa,  or donating food and medical supplies to third world countries, etc.

Hopefully, government officials will soon see Scientology not as a "church", but as business that steals people's money, is involved in human trafficking and physical/sexual/mental abuse, and God only knows what else!

I can imagine that if any homeless get to close to their buildings they make sure to shoo them away instead of offering some sort of help to all of those out there as well. Heck they could be going out every day here in Los Angeles helping those on the streets alone but yet that would mean they would have to leave their compounds and such to do so. SMH 

[zxy556575]

Chris Shelton mentioned in one of his Q&A videos (and I shouldn't have been surprised at this point but still was) that everyone who is sent to the Rehabilitation Project Force knows about it and signs an agreement/waiver beforehand that spells out the terms of their confinement. I had imagined that people were taken from their offices without notice and frog marched away under guard, but no. As usual, they WILLINGLY COMPLY and in fact consider themselves fortunate to have been given a chance at redemption.

There is just no getting through to these people! I wonder if any families have used cult deprogrammers and if they were successful?

An excerpt from a waiver is below. Reading it, I can understand how the courts might very well rule against someone who subsequently tried to sue.

Edited December 28, 2016 by lordonia

[Sew Sumi]

Not sure where to put this, but Nightline did a piece with Jenna back in 2008.

[AZChristian]

Just finished Ron Miscavage's book, "Ruthless."  It was a quick and easy read.  I think it provides a good "entry-level" explanation of the initial draw of Scientology.  He does define his own son as a sociopath ("no conscience"), and while it seems clear that he can live happily without David in his life, he has regrets as a father that his son turned into the monster he became.  He even refers to David as "Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde."

I wish him peace and joy in his remaining years.

[LilWharveyGal]

Be careful, everybody.  After perusing these threads, the banner ad at the top of the page became a coupon for Battlefield Earth at Amazon.  I hate that my computer thinks I'm actually into this stuff!

[AZChristian]

8 minutes ago, LilWharveyGal said:

Be careful, everybody.  After perusing these threads, the banner ad at the top of the page became a coupon for Battlefield Earth at Amazon.  I hate that my computer thinks I'm actually into this stuff!

Maybe we should start discussing Sakroots purses.  I get their ads on FB ALL THE TIME.

[juliet73]

10 hours ago, lordonia said:

Chris Shelton mentioned in one of his Q&A videos (and I shouldn't have been surprised at this point but still was) that everyone who is sent to the Rehabilitation Project Force knows about it and signs an agreement/waiver beforehand that spells out the terms of their confinement. I had imagined that people were taken from their offices without notice and frog marched away under guard, but no. As usual, they WILLINGLY COMPLY and in fact consider themselves fortunate to have been given a chance at redemption.

There is just no getting through to these people! I wonder if any families have used cult deprogrammers and if they were successful?

An excerpt from a waiver is below. Reading it, I can understand how the courts might very well rule against someone who subsequently tried to sue.

This is only an excerpt - the entire document could be pages.  I can guarantee these people have no idea what they are signing because 1. they probably aren't allowed to read it in it's entirety 2. it's written with a lot of BS legal jargon that they don't understand and 3. they are probably told to sign it under extreme duress.  I think in last week's episode an ex Scientologist was explaining that if a parishioner was admitted to a hospital, the "church" had the legal right to have a say in their care or have them discharged because they signed a form allowing it when they joined.  Leah was shocked and said, "I didn't sign that, did I?" and the person replied, "Yes, yes you did."

Edited December 29, 2016 by juliet73

[pinguina]

I have found the whole documentary so interesting!  But horrifying as well.  

In what other established religion do people have to pay for classes (well, maybe a nominal fee!) or pay to attend to learn more (like Bible study at my church, people just show up and participate!) Wouldn't having to pay for something so basic be a red flag?  Or are the people who join not have had any kind of contact with a church or religion?  It baffles me.

Side note:  I remember years ago (I was like 20 or 21), my cousins came to visit my family.  My older brother and I took them to Hollywood to see the touristy things there.  As we were walking, two people came out of a building and said to us, "Wouldn't you like to know more about yourself?" (or words to that effect).  They said they were doing a type of survey.  Now my cousin was like 15 or 16 years old.  But we thought "Why not?'  So in we went.  They separated us as soon as we went in.  I sat down across a desk and the person began to ask me questions.  After the first five or six questions I just felt weird, so I wan't consistently "honest".  When we were done, the person "analyzed" my responses and began to tell me what I needed to become more aware.  By this time I just wanted my cousin and get out of there.  Got my cousin and we went outside. We had been told the exact same thing!  We had the exact same "strengths" and areas that needed to be developed or helped!  As we walked away, we both turned back to see what building it was - Scientology!!

[HunterHunted]

21 hours ago, juliet73 said:

This is only an excerpt - the entire document could be pages.  I can guarantee these people have no idea what they are signing because 1. they probably aren't allowed to read it in it's entirety 2. it's written with a lot of BS legal jargon that they don't understand and 3. they are probably told to sign it under extreme duress.  I think in last week's episode an ex Scientologist was explaining that if a parishioner was admitted to a hospital, the "church" had the legal right to have a say in their care or have them discharged because they signed a form allowing it when they joined.  Leah was shocked and said, "I didn't sign that, did I?" and the person replied, "Yes, yes you did."

Oh they absolutely have no clue. The psychiatric hospitalization provision is probably not legal either. Most states don't allow people's medical power of attorney to stick an adult in a psych hospital or to discharge them either. Sometimes guardians can do it, but there has been a big push by disability advocacy groups to limit it to court orders only. To be the guardian of an adult, you need to go to court to prove that your adult ward is incapable of caring for themselves. Scientology is not doing this because it would invite unwelcome scrutiny.

In the story about the psychotic woman in the hospital, you'll notice that the Scientologists convinced her to leave. She checked herself into the hospital and could check herself out. The hospital hadn't filed paperwork to have a court order her into treatment and the Scientologist contract is nonsense. The only thing the Scientologists could legally do is badger the woman until she left.

I'm sure many Scientologists and former members agree to this and the freeloader debt because they are naive and ignorant about what the law allows you to do.

[Glade]

On 12/28/2016 at 6:24 AM, lordonia said:

Chris Shelton mentioned in one of his Q&A videos (and I shouldn't have been surprised at this point but still was) that everyone who is sent to the Rehabilitation Project Force knows about it and signs an agreement/waiver beforehand that spells out the terms of their confinement. I had imagined that people were taken from their offices without notice and frog marched away under guard, but no. As usual, they WILLINGLY COMPLY and in fact consider themselves fortunate to have been given a chance at redemption.

There is just no getting through to these people! I wonder if any families have used cult deprogrammers and if they were successful?

An excerpt from a waiver is below. Reading it, I can understand how the courts might very well rule against someone who subsequently tried to sue.

I'm sure they'd sign anything the church put before them; the church doesn't take no for an answer and knows how to manipulate it's members with maximum pressure.  And remember the alternative is to be disconnected from their family and friends, thrown out into the streets with no money, no skills, no retirement benefits, labelled an evil, 'suppressive person' who is going against what they spent their whole lives fighting for.  They still believe the church is good and that they will be ultimately redeemed and treated well and save the world, even in the midst of the abuse, until they don't. 

[zxy556575]

I was listening to one of Chris Shelton's Q&A podcasts and he was asked about psychiatry. Even after being out of the cult for 3+ years and devoting himself to anti-Scientology and critical thinking, he STILL wasn't able to let the question go by without slamming the "many abuses" in psychiatry and saying it might be okay for others but he would never use it himself.

That shit cuts DEEP.

Edited January 5, 2017 by lordonia

[bubbls]

David Miscavige's dad's comments are interesting. The term sociopath and psychopath are tossed around too casually online, but as I was watching Going Clear I was thinking David is one. I think his dad would know. 

 

What I wonder is when these COS defectors are being harassed why don't they spout off all kinds of negative info regarding Scientology? I'm sure they just want to be left alone, but if there's one thing scientologists don't want to hear and aren't allowed to hear it's the truth. It's like garlic to a vampire. Maybe they've tried though. 

[Sew Sumi]

I've read a shitton of CO$ books in the last 10 days or so, but I am pretty sure that either Miscavige's dad or Marc Headley openly called him a sociopath. With the experiences either one endured at the hands of this man, they wouldn't be incorrect. 

For those who don't know, Headley blew because he was going to be thrown into the Hole. Miscavige beat him up pretty good, and Headley was *this* close to retalitating before the goon squad dragged him out of the room. 

[bubbls]

I finally watched most of Leah's documentary. Wow! I had no idea things were this crazy. I'm not really feeling too sympathetic towards the parents who abandon their children to the care of COS and only see them a bit per day. I'm sure the guilt Mike Rinder and Mary Kahn are living with is horrendous. 

[zxy556575]

When criticizing their apostates, Scientology often sneers that they (including Leah) tried desperately to remain in the organization but were expelled. Politifact would probably rate that a True.

But here's the thing. The exes may have become disillusioned and quit their staff jobs or the Sea Org, but they tried to follow the required steps and remain "in good standing" because they didn't want to disconnect from spouses, family and friends. It was only after they were declared, disconnected, spied on and harassed that they felt they had nothing to lose and began speaking up. Basically Scientology created its own enemies.

Edited January 8, 2017 by lordonia

[HunterHunted]

If Scientology is so great and can cure anything, why is David Miscavige still so short?

How David is running this organization guarantees that it will be gone in 50 years. It's bleeding its members dry financially. It encourages intense paranoia in its adherents. It prohibits its most faithful from having children. And it is a faith that is fundamentally not generous. When a member has something terrible happen to them, they cannot go to the Church of Scientology for assistance. No cash to help the person out. No one baking casseroles. No assistance with childcare or job opportunities. When something bad happens to a Scientologist, their faith teaches them that the Scientologist is at fault that he or she has caused this horrible thing to happen.

Humans banded together in family and community groups way back at the beginning of human civilization so that they could mutually support and work together for the betterment of the group. Scientology is an antisocial religion, which works counter to how humans and human civilization have evolved. 

[AnnieBeez]

16 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

If Scientology is so great and can cure anything, why is David Miscavige still so short?

How David is running this organization guarantees that it will be gone in 50 years. It's bleeding its members dry financially. It encourages intense paranoia in its adherents. It prohibits its most faithful from having children. And it is a faith that is fundamentally not generous. When a member has something terrible happen to them, they cannot go to the Church of Scientology for assistance. No cash to help the person out. No one baking casseroles. No assistance with childcare or job opportunities. When something bad happens to a Scientologist, their faith teaches them that the Scientologist is at fault that he or she has caused this horrible thing to happen.

Humans banded together in family and community groups way back at the beginning of human civilization so that they could mutually support and work together for the betterment of the group. Scientology is an antisocial religion, which works counter to how humans and human civilization have evolved. 

Really?! That's fucked up. 

[HunterHunted]

29 minutes ago, MischaMouse said:

Really?! That's fucked up. 

It was a joke.

[Brattinella]

He IS short.  I am short, too.  I am also fat.  Are we supposed to not notice if someone is short?

Edited January 8, 2017 by Brattinella

[AnnieBeez]

31 minutes ago, Brattinella said:

He IS short.  I am short, too.  I am also fat.  Are we supposed to not notice if someone is short?

Noticing is one thing. Saying it's something that needs to be cured is another. This is off-topic, so I'll just repeat that being short is the least of his issues. 

[Brattinella]

I do hope that Miscavige, Senior will be in the finale.  I liked him very much.

[RedheadZombie]

I re-watched Clear, and I remembered something that enrages me about the whole IRS thing.  LRH refused to pay the IRS, and got away with it.  When they were finally given their tax-exempt status, they owed the government over one billion dollars ....... which was forgiven!!

That should have precluded them from charity status on that fact alone.  Why no uproar?  

And, the IRS officials celebrated with the upper echelon CO$ afterwards.  There are pics proving it. 

[trow125]

On 1/7/2017 at 4:42 PM, HunterHunted said:

How David is running this organization guarantees that it will be gone in 50 years. It's bleeding its members dry financially. It encourages intense paranoia in its adherents. It prohibits its most faithful from having children. And it is a faith that is fundamentally not generous. When a member has something terrible happen to them, they cannot go to the Church of Scientology for assistance. No cash to help the person out. No one baking casseroles. No assistance with childcare or job opportunities. When something bad happens to a Scientologist, their faith teaches them that the Scientologist is at fault that he or she has caused this horrible thing to happen.

Also, because Miscavige is so paranoid, there's no line of succession or second-in-command. He doesn't allow anyone else to hold power because he worries they'd stab him in the back. The nominal "president" of Scientology, Heber Jentzsch, has reportedly been held prisoner in the Hole. It wouldn't surprise me if Miscavige's non-Scientology lawyers (like Monique Yingling) know a lot more about what's going on in the upper echelons, including where all those billions are being held, than anyone in the "church."

[fastiller]

Q for the mod/s: I've seen in a couple of other threads people mentioning that there's no thread for general questions about Scientology.  Would this be the proper/appropriate place for them?  (I don't have any right now, but I am interested to know where they'd land.)

[zxy556575]

Just when I think Scientology can't get any grosser, I read Lois Reisdorf's account of being part of Hubbard's messenger service on the Apollo back in the 70s. She was around 14 at the time and helped get him dressed, gave him backrubs, lit his cigarettes, cleaned his clothes, etc. Basically the messengers acted as his personal gofers. One of Lois's "messages" was to go slap the chief engineer.

Lois said Hubbard always had "at least" his underwear on when they were giving him massages. She said nothing sexual ever happened to her, or that she saw. Yeah, whatever. He had young girls outfitted in short shorts and midriff blouses. GROSS AND SLIMY! I imagine Hubbard smelled like cigarettes, hair grease and rotten teeth.

[DangerousMinds]

That is disgusting. I am now reading a book about the history of Scientology and LRH claims that body odor and bad breath improve as one gains a "higher tone." LOL.

[bosawks]

5 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

That is disgusting. I am now reading a book about the history of Scientology and LRH claims that body odor and bad breath improve as one gains a "higher tone." LOL.

Maybe it's just another way to stop Sea Org pregnancies........

Edited January 11, 2017 by bosawks

[Enigma X]

2 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

That is disgusting. I am now reading a book about the history of Scientology and LRH claims that body odor and bad breath improve as one gains a "higher tone." LOL.

I am going to guess that he really did stink and this was his justification. 

[fastiller]

On 1/11/2017 at 9:11 AM, lordonia said:

Just when I think Scientology can't get any grosser, I read Lois Reisdorf's account of being part of Hubbard's messenger service on the Apollo back in the 70s. She was around 14 at the time and helped get him dressed, gave him backrubs, lit his cigarettes, cleaned his clothes, etc. Basically the messengers acted as his personal gofers. One of Lois's "messages" was to go slap the chief engineer.

Reading this now, and I'm wondering WTF does this:

Quote

“I AM AN OVERT PRODUCT PRODUCER”

even mean!!!

[DangerousMinds]

8 minutes ago, fastiller said:

Reading this now, and I'm wondering WTF does this:

even mean!!!

Ha! I read that yesterday and had the same response.

[funky-rat]

On ‎12‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 5:09 PM, spiderpig said:

I always feel I have to put "Church" in quotes when the term is used anywhere near Scientology.  Many religion-affiliated groups do wonderful work with the underprivileged, people needing comfort and solace, and support valid social issues.  It's offensive that CO$ is allowed to be included with other churches (no quotes).

The only thing Davy's crew has done that appears to be a social service is Narcanon, which purports to get people off drugs, but is really a recruiting tool.

I mentioned it on another thread, but I'll keep doing it because it bugs, because I firmly believe COS wants people to mistake it.  It's NarcOnon.  Completely different from NarcAnon (Narcotics Anonymous), or Nar-Anon (Narcotics Anonymous version of Al-Anon for Alcoholics Anonymous - it's for family and friends).  NarcAnon is a legit 12 step group that actually helps people and doesn't charge a dime (donations accepted, if you can afford it).  Novel concept there!

On ‎12‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 3:46 PM, WInterfalls said:

Whatever you do don't give them your real address or phone number or they will never stop hounding you.  Remini talked about in her book about people having to shut down their mailboxes because they got a never ending string of junk mail from CO$. 

When I have to fill-out forms to get something and I don't want to be bothered, I give out several different addresses:

1334 Beachwood Dr, Los Angeles CA (it's where The Monkees lived on their show - I think it's Columbia Studio's real address)
1060 West Addison, Chicago IL (Wrigley Field, and Elwood Blues' fake address of choice)

And since I once had to be Canadian to get a free song download:

941 Progress Ave, Toronto Ontario, M1G 3T8 CANADA (Degrassi High (original - not Next Generation) - in reality, Centennial College)

[spiderpig]

4 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

I mentioned it on another thread, but I'll keep doing it because it bugs, because I firmly believe COS wants people to mistake it.  It's NarcOnon.  Completely different from NarcAnon (Narcotics Anonymous), or Nar-Anon (Narcotics Anonymous version of Al-Anon for Alcoholics Anonymous - it's for family and friends).  NarcAnon is a legit 12 step group that actually helps people and doesn't charge a dime (donations accepted, if you can afford it).  Novel concept there!

All the more reason to loathe CO$ - leeching on a legit service for their own gain.

I can't spell, anyway.

[funky-rat]

3 minutes ago, spiderpig said:

All the more reason to loathe CO$ - leeching on a legit service for their own gain.

I can't spell, anyway.

I wasn't criticizing your spelling at all - that's how it sounds when it's spoken, and when I first heard one of their minions say it, I thought "Oh HELL no!" and I went and looked it up.  :)

[spiderpig]

1 minute ago, funky-rat said:

I wasn't criticizing your spelling at all - that's how it sounds when it's spoken, and when I first heard one of their minions say it, I thought "Oh HELL no!" and I went and looked it up.  :)

I'm glad you did!  I wasn't even aware there was a legit Narcanon.  Learn something new every day.

All this just adds to the Cult's sneaky methodology.

Thanks for enlightening us! (:hug:)(:hi:)