S03.E07: Call It Mother's Intuition

[jvr]

Quote

 

Also, Oliver consistently stopped Thomas when he felt they were entering the danger zone, had tried to tell him before and got cut off, and Thomas was never in any danger. Especially since Oliver is undetectable.

Legally, at least where I live, you don't have to disclose a positive HIV status if you are undetectable and use a condom (for heterosexual vaginal intercourse, assumed/generally interpreted to be the same for anal and oral but hasn't been tested at the Supreme Court level). Ethically, it's a bit more dicey, but based on the science, the risk of transmission is not considered a "realistic possibility".

I totally agree that the Stanford thing was awful and I'm not sure Oliver will ever be able to make up for that (in my mind, anyways), but I don't think the timing of his disclosure makes him horrible.

This discussion reminded me of this time I was reading an article that was something HIV related and there was a guy in the comment section that was adament he didn't have to tell sexual partners that he was HIV+. The way in which he kept going on about it seemed so, ugh, like gloating that he had sex with people unaware of his status. His whole attitude made me pause and *shudder*. I was expecting Oliver to not say shit, he would just comfort himself by thinking he tried to say something, he has shown himself to be selfish and creepy as fuck at times.

Saying all that, Oliver went from one of my favorite characters to my least favorite character in record time, I wish he was #underthesheet. It will be Connor.

[Delphi]

I also wanted to add , although I'm not getting to change anyone's opinion on Connor he was horrified when pax killed himself.   I just watched the episode the other day,  he was a wreck. 

[Michel]

13 hours ago, bantering said:

It's like we don't even care that she was murdered by Bonnie because logic seemed to elude her so much (and yeah, I pin that blame on Bonnie, not Wes or Rebecca herself. But I also don't pin that on Analise since I can't recall Analise giving dumb instructions like that. As I said in my previous post, it's when these people go off and do something on their own that they mess up.)

Why did Bonnie kill Rebecca?  Did she ever say why?

[Milaxx]

Bonnie killed her to protect Annalise. Wes suddenly got all paranoid and distrustful of her. The K5 tied her up and put her in Annalise's basement. Bonnie felt they were backed into a corner because if they let her go she would go to the police and tell on them. While Annlise was trying to figure out a way out of this, Bonnie killed her. When Annalise found the body she had Frank dispose of it.

[helenamonster]

On 11/4/2016 at 2:16 PM, ribboninthesky said:

How I plan on making it through two more weeks till midseason's finale with my edges and sanity still in tact is a code still uncracked. Next week has a viewer discretion notice warning too? Pete Nowalk's gonna be responsible for picking up the tab if this keeps up.

I heard the viewer discretion warning but didn't think anything of it until now...for some reason I thought there always was one for this show but I've realized now that there's not. I'm, uh, nervous, considering all the shit we've seen sans warning. And I have a queasy feeling it's not going to be something in the sex department. The last time I saw a viewer discretion warning for a show that usually doesn't have one was Downton Abbey and that...that did not turn out well.

On 11/4/2016 at 3:19 PM, Keepitmoving said:

I can't buy the whole love stuff either but I might be getting confused with all the flash forwarding and backward, so the timing that has gone buy, for Laurel to be confessing love for Wes seems unreal to me. Because I feel I've watched her for episodes with her panties in a bunch trying to find Frank for herself, worried about Frank, Frank, Frank Frank....  I did buy her getting close to Wes as a friend with attraction but her heart still always seemed to be with Frank up to two episodes ago. I mean that's what she's been about, I more buy Wes, because I think I've watched him get more into her for some time now than vice versa. I mean, I felt and bought her fall for Frank, what's going on with Wes, something's missing in the build up to this "love.".

I didn't feel that Laurel's "love you" to Wes was heartfelt or real. I mean yeah there is the whole "in vino veritas" thing and maybe deep down she does love him...not necessarily romantically but as someone she's become extremely emotionally close with over the past year due to the trauma they've endured together and secrets they shared. But as soon as she said it she seemed to freak herself out. Idk, I don't buy that they're suddenly all in lurrrrve but I don't think the show is trying to sell us that either. YMMV.

[Tiger]

What has happened with Connor this season reminds me of what happened to George the season he was killed on Grey's.  Just like Connor, George was striped of his personality, his screentime was extremely dimminished, and by the end he was basically a glorified extra.   

IIRC, the character had been involved in an extremely unpopular story, publicly complained about the show, and asked to me let out of his contract.  I wonder if maybe in this case Falahee is tired of people expecting/wanting/thinking him to be "Connor" when by all accounts he is nothing like the character.  

Edited November 6, 2016 by Tiger

[Milaxx]

Connor hasn't been stripped of his personality nor screentime unlike TR Knight, Jack has never given an inkling of being upset with his character. In fact he was quite vocal in support of his character on twitter, particularly when Italian tv edited out a Coliver kissing scene. From what I have seen of the actors on this show who are active on social media, they share a nice balance of  their own life experiences, things they do with or in support of other cast members and their own activities. The TR  situation was the result of in fighting behind the scenes between him and Isaiah Washington (who was also fired) and likely spurred on by his friendship with Katherine Heigel who also asked to be let go/was fired. 

NONE of these characters are exactly who they were season 1. They are all changed as a result of knowing each other and Annalise, the things they have done, etc... That's real life. People grow and change.

As for Laurel's ILY, I got the impression that the wine made her say it a little earlier than expected, not that she didn't mean it. Laurel's usually the one who stays calm and collected. I buy there was an initial attraction, but they both mentally friend zoned the other thinking neither stood  a chance. Once the got involved with others, it was easy to keep them friend zoned by telling themselves the other was involved with someone else. Once we find out who's under the sheet and who exactly Wes is ratting out, it might be interesting to see how this relationship works out.

Edited November 6, 2016 by Milaxx

[Eolivet]

11 hours ago, jvr said:

there was a guy in the comment section that was adament he didn't have to tell sexual partners that he was HIV+. The way in which he kept going on about it seemed so, ugh, like gloating that he had sex with people unaware of his status.

Yikes. There was a Law & Order episode about that in the mid-90s. They prosecuted the guy for attempted murder, I think. I still remember Briscoe testifying when they caught the guy in flagrante: "Hey, no, baby, I never wear condoms, it's better bareback."

I have to think Frank is under the sheet now. I keep coming back to the fact that why would Laurel and Nate both be in Annalise's house? Frank and Laurel there together makes it more dramatic -- if "all he wants to do is come home." I'd actually argue that Bonnie's pushing Frank so vehemently away will have great dramatic implications for next year if he really is dead. And for Laurel, who I don't believe is in 100% with Wes -- I'd argue their romance is like the non-calculated showmances on reality TV: where people are under great duress together, and bond because of it. Unless she and Frank get it on next week, and it's a "Who's the Daddy" thing (except it's one week prior to the fire, and can you tell one week post-conception? I know the tests that advertise "7 days before your missed period," so maybe). Also, I feel like a theme of this season has been "what happens when you disobey Annalise." Frank would become a cautionary tale in that case.

Then there's the fact that I feel like this show, which loves throwing social norms out the window, would be the one to go "Let's make it seem like the African-American man is irrelevant for half the season, before we kill the 'more important' straight white dude" -- almost as a protest against the recent controversial character deaths on TV.

[Chicago Redshirt]

The thing about the show is that they can contrive any reason for anybody to be there. It is easiest to imagine that some sort of lover's triangle explodes between Frank, Wes and Laurel that happens to take place at Chez Annalise. But Nate could swing by the house for any random reason, including a) attempting to get back together with Annalise b) retrieving stuff he left at Chez Annalise c) helping/warning Annalise about a CotW d) telling Annalise that ADA Yummy is on the warpath about something.

Remember S1 and confluence of events that had Sam, Rebecca and Michaela at the house at the same time, even though any pairing among the three had hardly interacted and there was probably no previous scene with all three of them interacting together? It could totally be like that.

Edited November 6, 2016 by Chicago Redshirt

[Dee]

The strange thing is the show listed Ophelia as a potential victim yet she has no motive and/or screen time (thus far) this season.

[secnarf]

1 hour ago, Eolivet said:

Unless she and Frank get it on next week, and it's a "Who's the Daddy" thing (except it's one week prior to the fire, and can you tell one week post-conception? I know the tests that advertise "7 days before your missed period," so maybe). Also, I feel like a theme of this season has been "what happens when you disobey Annalise." Frank would become a cautionary tale in that case.

I think the end of this episode was two weeks pre-fire, so that's enough time. Also the tests they use in hospital are typically not whatever you see advertised on TV, so that wouldn't really apply. The earliest you would see a positive hCG blood test is about 10-11 days after conception, so we still have time for a plausible Frank-fathered baby if that is what the show wants to do. One week, probably not, so we should find out next episode if that's where they're heading.

[jhlipton]

19 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I guess maybe Bonnie meant she's Frank's second choice but then she knew that when she slept with him so I don't know why she's all offended now. Oh, wait, there's my pregnancy theory...

She just meant that he went to Laurel's first, so she was his second visit.  She used the term wrong but the meaning was clear to me.

4 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Nate could swing by the house for any random reason, including ,,, elling Annalise that ADA Yummy is on the warpath about something.

Thank you!

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

This. I don't think that Annalise is intentionally evil and I *really*

What she is, is not well. She needs a real therapist and not the quack of therapist her dead husband was, crossing all kinds of lines. I saw that somewhat warm moment between she and university president and I was like, run girl, run. Yeah, when she took her phone and seemed like she cared about her situation and thus recommended an attorney for her yeah, run. All I could think was if she got mixed up with Anna she would surely relapse and lose her kids for good. That twice a week visitation would be gone. Anna should not be in contact with healthy people let alone the characters on this show who have issues. They all have issues and you throw a destructive puppet master in the mix to manipulate and control them and...

She's not evil, I agree, she's just not well and she attracts others who are not well. She researched the Keating-5 and picked them based on their weaknesses, she surely didn't want any of them for any strengths they may have. She's also afraid to be happy, she all but said it I think during the Eve episode. Of course if she and any of these characters were healthy and happy we wouldn't be loving this show so much.

Edited November 6, 2016 by Keepitmoving

[skotnikov]

10 hours ago, nosleepforme said:

 

I feel like Pete Nowalk broke up Connor and Oliver just to explore the difficulties of a HIV+ gay man dating. At least it somewhat feels like that, not that, not that I'm complaining. I think it's an interesting storyline. I just wish it was explored with a better actor/character. The increased screen time is really not doing any favors to Oliver IMO. That's also one of the reasons why I don't think Connor is under the sheet. Oliver is just not working without him as a character.

 

Exactly my thought. There is no sense of having  Oliver as a regular once Connor is dead. And I doubt they could get rid not of 1 but of 2 gay characters at once without loosing  more viewers and causing a sh*tstorm  

Edited November 6, 2016 by skotnikov

[stuckin60s]

Do we know what type of person AK was before the show started? Before Sam was involved with another student, before her students killed Sam, etc???

[Milaxx]

We can put  together bits and pieces based on the Eve scenes and the flashback episode that showed their marriage collapsing.  It appears AK has always been smart & ambitious, and she has always run from emotionally difficult situations. Wealth and career advancement only appears to have magnified her feeling unlovable and allowed her to better mask it.

Edited November 6, 2016 by Milaxx

[kentlady]

I'm glad the house burned down because I seriously hated that house!  From Day One, I hated that house. I always thought it was dark and dreary, spooky even.  I hated that long hallway, I hated the stairway leading to the 2nd floor, and I hated the "living room/waiting room".  As a potential client, I would not feel comfortable walking into that living room, which by the way also serves as a work room.

The only room in that house I liked is the kitchen.

I'm curious, seems like the same students have been student interns now for way too long.  When does that end?  

My total apologies for this rant and for taking this off topic.  Back to topic now, sorry. 
 

[possibilities]

RE how Annalise was before the K5, we also know she went through periods of hallucinogenic grief over her miscarriage, from the episode where Bonnie is taking care of her and clearly recognized the situation as though it was not the first time it happened.

[Milaxx]

3 hours ago, kentlady said:

I'm curious, seems like the same students have been student interns now for way too long.  When does that end?  

They've only completed their first year of law school.

[helenamonster]

13 hours ago, Dee said:

The strange thing is the show listed Ophelia as a potential victim yet she has no motive and/or screen time (thus far) this season.

Did the show float Ophelia as a victim or was that just early spec around these parts? Either way, we know it's not her now because we know the body is male.

6 hours ago, stuckin60s said:

Do we know what type of person AK was before the show started? Before Sam was involved with another student, before her students killed Sam, etc???

The second half of last season is significantly comprised of flashbacks to ten years before the current timeline.

3 hours ago, kentlady said:

I'm curious, seems like the same students have been student interns now for way too long.  When does that end?  

They're not her interns anymore, they're just taking her pro bono clinic. She doesn't teach crim law anymore so she doesn't have any official interns for her non-pro bono cases, and I don't think we've seen her try any non-pro bono cases this season (she may have offscreen).

[dgpolo]

6 hours ago, stuckin60s said:

Do we know what type of person AK was before the show started? Before Sam was involved with another student, before her students killed Sam, etc???

Wasn't she sexually abused by her uncle?

[Keepitmoving]

I don't get it though, are we supposed to assume that they are taking other classes? Because no way can they just be taking courses still with just Anna. They started with her HTGAWM 101 class, now we are in this clinic. They're still first year right? So 101 course, and now this clinic, does that seem right? Shouldn't they have other law professors?

[PBGamer89]

Call me crazy but when the Case of the Week had the mother poison herself to teach her kids a lesson, I half expected the rat to turn out to be Annalise herself in a parallel to that storyline.

[Dee]

10 hours ago, helenamonster said:

Did the show float Ophelia as a victim or was that just early spec around these parts? Either way, we know it's not her now because we know the body is male.

Entertainment Weekly counted her among the possible victims along with Nate, Eve, Soraya and The Murder Clan, which is a fairly weird red herring. But since the writers reportedly hadn't settled on the victim until they were close to the end of the first half of the season, I guess they can be forgiven.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Dee

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, Keepitmoving said:

I don't get it though, are we supposed to assume that they are taking other classes? Because no way can they just be taking courses still with just Anna. They started with her HTGAWM 101 class, now we are in this clinic. They're still first year right? So 101 course, and now this clinic, does that seem right? Shouldn't they have other law professors?

They have talked periodically about the other classes they are taking. There was a subplot about the K5 trying to get the outline (a study aid) for another class, and there was a scene recently where one was quizzing another one.

They are presumably blowing off a good deal of their other classes, though, as the president talked about how her main students weren't doing well.

They are in their second year (of three, normally).

9 hours ago, skotnikov said:

Exactly my thought. There is no sense of having  Oliver as a regular once Connor is dead. And I doubt they could get rid not of 1 but of 2 gay characters at once without loosing  more viewers and causing a sh*tstorm  

Oliver has more of a role than Connor's love interest/ex. Even assuming they didn't want to develop his backstory, at a minimum there is the usefulness that Oliver as a hacker manages to make the Cases of the Week flow. And with Frank not as available to be an investigator/fixer, Oliver can step into that role. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 11/4/2016 at 9:07 AM, bantering said:

Michaela still has agency though. It's not Analise's fault that Michaela was dumb enough to sleep with him.   It's not like it's impossible to control one's self when it comes to sex, especially when the person is your client with whom you're having professional discussions, not some  person you started kissing while drunk at the bar.

Annalise suggests that lawyers use their charm. It's part of the job to some extent to get the information you need (they've all done it, including Connor when he needed to get the old lady who was abused to admit to the Board why she killed her husband). But I think that's the extent of most mentors' advice.

All of these people are running around doing things she never told them to do (i.e most recently, Wes lied to the police about the blonde guy being at the scene of his father's murder; Frank randomly murders people). And yet most of them, with the exception of Frank which is probably why I have some sympathy for the half-sociopath/half-human and Bonnie,  have the gall to blame her. Most of the time she's giving advice that makes sense. It's when they decide to improvise and deviate from what she told them to do that they all land in trouble. 

Michaela is (presumably) a 22ish, star-struck girl who seemingly had only one major boyfriend prior to meeting Annalise, and he was from all appearances gay and closeted.

It is true that Annalise didn't say "Sleep with him," but it is also true that Michaela is young and prone to making mistakes. It is also true that Annalise pretty much tells people to do whatever it takes to win. So I don't think it is that much difference between "Use your boobs" and the logical extension of that "Screw him if you have to." Let's also keep in mind that Annalise didn't order Wes to sex up Rebecca or Connor to sex up people to help with his cases, but I'm pretty sure she knew about both and was happy to use both to get what she wanted and to keep people in line.

It is also worth pointing out that Michaela blamed Wes for her sleeping with Levi/Eggs 911, which he could only be said to have done by not telling Michaela who Levi was. So even if we agree that Annalise didn't push Michaela to sleep with Caleb, it's in Michaela's character to blame people for at lest some of her dating decisions and to not take ownership of them. 

[Milaxx]

8 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

I don't get it though, are we supposed to assume that they are taking other classes? Because no way can they just be taking courses still with just Anna. They started with her HTGAWM 101 class, now we are in this clinic. They're still first year right? So 101 course, and now this clinic, does that seem right? Shouldn't they have other law professors?

AS @doram pointed out they are taking other classes but other than mentioning them in passing it is not shown, and yes they are likely blowing off, skipping some classes. My guess is unless it involves the COTW we won't see them attending any other classes. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

How To Get Away With Murder Holds An Airing Of Grievances

Annalise doesn't want her students to murder her someday, so she encourages a healthy exchange of ideas (bitch sesh).

[helenamonster]

11 hours ago, Dee said:

Entertainment Weekly counted her among the possible victims along with Nate, Eve, Soraya and The Murder Clan, which is a fairly weird red herring. But since the writers reportedly hadn't settled on the victim until they were close to the end of the first half of the season, I guess they can be forgiven.

But Entertainment Weekly still isn't the show. Any speculation that Ophelia was a potential victim came from the viewers/media outlets. This show by design encourages wild mass guessing, but they never floated Ophelia as a possibility, and now we know she's not.

[Dee]

That particular article includes commentary with the cast members, and the show's creator, Pete Nowalk.

Why then, would they arbitrarily include Ophelia, a fairly minor character, with the main characters and this season's heavily recurring characters if she wasn't involved? If adding her into the mix was solely EW's call that seems like something Pete would've/should've acknowledged in the article itself.

And if it was just speculation on EW's behalf why include her yet leave out Simon who's logged a significant amount of screen time this season?

[Milaxx]

Personally I think it's just to keep everyone guessing like that list of people with grievances against AK that was floated earlier this season. If it was truly Ophelia Annalise would be much more broken up bout it. That's her mom and while the relationship has been shown to be turbulent, time and again when things got truly rough that's who she ran to.

As an aside I just realized where I saw Thomas. He had a few bit parts on Looking. 

Edited November 7, 2016 by Milaxx

[muessigkeit]

29 minutes ago, Dee said:

And if it was just speculation on EW's behalf why include her yet leave out Simon who's logged a significant amount of screen time this season?

I think that's actually the most obvious clue that the list was made by the EW people and not Pete. That article was published right after the season premiere aired. At that point the viewers had no idea yet that Simon would play such a big part this season, but Pete definitely knew that. So the EW people just compiled a list of characters who had been important to the show in the past. (If you ask yourself "Well, why was Soraya included then? She's new this season, too," that's because it was officially announced that the actress has been cast in a prominent recurring role before the season started.) 

[Dee]

4 minutes ago, muessigkeit said:

(If you ask yourself "Well, why was Soraya included then? She's new this season, too," that's because it was officially announced that the actress has been cast in a prominent recurring role before the season started.) 

If that's the case, EW like most media outlets, would already know, by virtue of casting announcements, whether or not Cicely would be appearing in future episodes.

It just seems rather sloppy, whoever's idea it was.

That said, since the body under the sheet is confirmed male, the issue is irrelevant.

[Major Bigtime]

On 11/3/2016 at 11:24 PM, aquarian1 said:

Did Wes really say he's wanted to be with Laurel since the first day of class?  What about his insta-lurveeee! for mopey girl Rebecca?  Wasn't he pining for her then?  So he was insta-in-love with 2 girls?  Sigh.  

I think that was a Shonda brain fart, there have been several continuity problems in this show.

I'm voting Frank is dead under the sheet. Makes sense he'd be there trying to kill someone.

[bantering]

11 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Michaela is (presumably) a 22ish, star-struck girl who seemingly had only one major boyfriend prior to meeting Annalise, and he was from all appearances gay and closeted.

It is true that Annalise didn't say "Sleep with him," but it is also true that Michaela is young and prone to making mistakes. It is also true that Annalise pretty much tells people to do whatever it takes to win. So I don't think it is that much difference between "Use your boobs" and the logical extension of that "Screw him if you have to." Let's also keep in mind that Annalise didn't order Wes to sex up Rebecca or Connor to sex up people to help with his cases, but I'm pretty sure she knew about both and was happy to use both to get what she wanted and to keep people in line.

It is also worth pointing out that Michaela blamed Wes for her sleeping with Levi/Eggs 911, which he could only be said to have done by not telling Michaela who Levi was. So even if we agree that Annalise didn't push Michaela to sleep with Caleb, it's in Michaela's character to blame people for at lest some of her dating decisions and to not take ownership of them. 

 I agree that she doesn't take ownership of who she sleeps with.

Even if Analise thinks people should do whatever it takes to win, she doesn't really strike me as the type to be interested in "her kids'" sex lives the way that old mother who caused her own fake death attempt seemed to be.   I think she leaves it up to them to do whatever they want with their bodies. They all clearly like having sex -- their cases and/or guilt seem to be a pretext for acting out on their hormones (like when Connor slept with Pax) rather than instructions given by Analise, imo. "Use your boobs" sounds no different to me than a restaurant manager saying to use your charm to get more tips -- while I do find that advice kind of questionable/problematic for women, more so for some reason than when Analise says it,  I still don't think  he's   actually telling his  crew to go and sleep with the customers. 

Edited November 7, 2016 by bantering

[Milaxx]

1 hour ago, Major Bigtime said:

I think that was a Shonda brain fart, there have been several continuity problems in this show.

I'm voting Frank is dead under the sheet. Makes sense he'd be there trying to kill someone.

Pete Nowalk, not Shonda. Except for being under her production company Shonda doesn't have anything to do with this show.

Not sure how this counts as a continuity issue. One can be attracted to more than one person at a time. You meet, think "Hey he/she is cute." then decide that person is out of your league, would never give you the time of day, etc.... and you move on. 

[Keepitmoving]

Was I suppose to empathize with that mother in this week's case? Because I didn't.  There's a difference between trying to teach your children not to be entitled, whiny little bitches, and just being plain evil toward them. She was talking all this shit about what she gave to her children yet I don't recall specific testimony of the "horrid" way they treated her over the years. Were they treating her horribly when she gave them those humiliating nick names, I doubt it. 

Please, I love Anna and the Keating-5 are adults and should accept culpability, but sorry, Anna is supposed to be the leader. She's the one teaching them about the law and its practice,that's why they're in law school for crying out loud. She's the one who is suppose to be teaching them about ethics.  Quite frankly, I would have gone to the cops but knowing how manipulative and above the law my instructor was, I would certainly be afraid that she would manipulate the situation and I would be the only one in the end going to jail and not fucking special snowflake Wes, who actually committed the murder. Nope, I'm sure as hell not on the poor Anna, the Keating-5 are ungrateful little shits bandwagon.  Her Wes this and that bugs the shit out of me, advising them against going to the cops as soon as Sam was killed, because she's sitting up there trying to protect her favorite Wes at the expense of everyone else. Yeah, when it came to his turn to tell her off, he is actually the only one who should STFU. Now I see why folks hate Wes, I didn't pay attention to it before because I hadn't latched on to a favorite yet. But now that I do have my favorites, I'm sick of Anna trying to protect his ass. She keeps acting like it's about all of them equally, but it's not, it's about that connection she has with Wes. I loved Connor going over to that house and threatening to kill his ass. He's at that police station turning on someone and getting immunity but when he talks is his ass going to sell Michaela, Connor and Asher down the river, meanwhile protecting Laurel of course.  And if he does that he will definitely be on my shit list since Micheala and her little side family of Connor and Asher are now my favorites.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Keepitmoving

[bantering]

The one thing I like about Analise is that I don't think she expects anybody to feel sorry for her. She seems to have self-awareness about her own moral shortcomings.

During their rant against Analise, I think I felt everybody should have turned on Wes and started screaming at him. Maybe that would have also made me feel  bad for him. For this past season, I haven't felt really felt that bad for him, not even when his father was shot in front of him. The nookie he's getting from Laurel isn't helping matters.

Edited November 7, 2016 by bantering

[Milaxx]

2 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

Was I suppose to empathize with that mother in this week's case?

I've never gotten the impression we were supposed to feel bad for this week's COTW or for that matter most of the COTWs. Annalise is a defense attorney and most of her clients aren't nice people. Every so often we get one like the kid Asher was defending,but most of Annalise's cases vary from outright bad to morally ambiguous.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Milaxx

[FormerMod-a1]

They weren't defending the mom, they were defending the "kids" who were accused of poisoning her.  

[Milaxx]

You're right. Still they weren't all sweetness and light.  Going back to the question, I don't think we were supposed to pity them. It's just another way to parallel AK & the K5. 

[secnarf]

17 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

I don't get it though, are we supposed to assume that they are taking other classes? Because no way can they just be taking courses still with just Anna. They started with her HTGAWM 101 class, now we are in this clinic. They're still first year right? So 101 course, and now this clinic, does that seem right? Shouldn't they have other law professors?

They're in second year - a good chunk of the first episode was spent showing how they spent their summers. And as others have said, they talk about their other classes relatively often - mostly in the context of studying for tests/exams.

 

I pity the kids for having such a nightmare mother.
 

[Keepitmoving]

25 minutes ago, secnarf said:

They're in second year - a good chunk of the first episode was spent showing how they spent their summers. And as others have said, they talk about their other classes relatively often - mostly in the context of studying for tests/exams.

 

I pity the kids for having such a nightmare mother.
 

That's right, thanks.

[sking24450]

3 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

Was I suppose to empathize with that mother in this week's case? Because I didn't.  There's a difference between trying to teach your children not to be entitled, whiny little bitches, and just being plain evil toward them. She was talking all this shit about what she gave to her children yet I don't recall specific testimony of the "horrid" way they treated her over the years. Were they treating her horribly when she gave them those humiliating nick names, I doubt it. 

Please, I love Anna and the Keating-5 are adults and should accept culpability, but sorry, Anna is supposed to be the leader. She's the one teaching them about the law and its practice,that's why they're in law school for crying out loud. She's the one who is suppose to be teaching them about ethics.  Quite frankly, I would have gone to the cops but knowing how manipulative and above the law my instructor was, I would certainly be afraid that she would manipulate the situation and I would be the only one in the end going to jail and not fucking special snowflake Wes, who actually committed the murder. Nope, I'm sure as hell not on the poor Anna, the Keating-5 are ungrateful little shits bandwagon.  Her Wes this and that bugs the shit out of me, advising them against going to the cops as soon as Sam was killed, because she's sitting up there trying to protect her favorite Wes at the expense of everyone else. Yeah, when it came to his turn to tell her off, he is actually the only one who should STFU. Now I see why folks hate Wes, I didn't pay attention to it before because I hadn't latched on to a favorite yet. But now that I do have my favorites, I'm sick of Anna trying to protect his ass. She keeps acting like it's about all of them equally, but it's not, it's about that connection she has with Wes. I loved Connor going over to that house and threatening to kill his ass. He's at that police station turning on someone and getting immunity but when he talks is his ass going to sell Michaela, Connor and Asher down the river, meanwhile protecting Laurel of course.  And if he does that he will definitely be on my shit list since Micheala and her little side family of Connor and Asher are now my favorites.

And yet she has covered up legit 1st degree murders for the other people.  Annalise was not trying to protect Wes when she was trying to get them all involved in covering up Asher's hit and run, and certainly wasn't protecting Wes when she was gaslighting him about Rebecca when she knew the girl was dead and knew that Bonnie had killed her.  She does have a connection with Wes but she has not gone above and beyond what she has done for the others.  She didn't even know who had swung the fatal blow when she first told Wes to not be sorry.  When they all balked about helping Asher cover up the crime she threatened all of them to get them to fall in line.

Wes didn't say anything because he believes that she is trying to protect him and I do think that he believes that he has caused her a lot of grief so he keeps him mouth shut.  

I doubt Wes is saying anything about the murder that he committed and implicating the other Keating 5 since that would lead them to turn on him, this seems to be entirely about the Mahoney shooting since that is all the NYPD should be interested in and that certainly did not involve anyone else from the Keating 5.

[Tiger]

8 hours ago, Milaxx said:

Personally I think it's just to keep everyone guessing like that list of people with grievances against AK that was floated earlier this season. If it was truly Ophelia Annalise would be much more broken up bout it. That's her mom and while the relationship has been shown to be turbulent, time and again when things got truly rough that's who she ran to.

As an aside I just realized where I saw Thomas. He had a few bit parts on Looking. 

Oh Looking . . . shitty writing, hot as fuck sex scenes . . .  especially that one where the guy on the right was plo . . . ahem, where am I? 

To keep this on topic, Im actually impressed at the things ABC has been able to show and imply on this show.  Because for whatever reason, American broadcast tv show can air all sorts of violence at any hour, yet sex is still kept largely chaste even at 10.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Tiger

[Keepitmoving]

You know what I wonder, who is Bonnie speaking with on her cell when she's at the hospital in the flash forward? It can't be Anna because by that time Anna is in a jail cell without a phone.  She's not talking to Michaela, because Michaela finds out by the phone call from Oliver that was meant for Connor when her mother answered his cell phone. So who the hell is Bonnie updating about Laurel? She's not talking to Frank, or maybe they make up, nope, I don't think so. Whether he's dead or not, would she be calling him? 

Edited November 8, 2016 by Keepitmoving

[Keepitmoving]

8 minutes ago, doram said:

I assumed she was calling Wes. 

I didn't, why would she be calling Wes.   I haven't yet to see anyone knowing that those two have a thing. They are keeping it a secret, no one knows.

[Milaxx]

I'm beginning to think she's calling Frank and it's Nate (hopefully) under the sheet.

[Milaxx]

On 11/6/2016 at 11:08 PM, helenamonster said:

They're not her interns anymore, they're just taking her pro bono clinic. She doesn't teach crim law anymore so she doesn't have any official interns for her non-pro bono cases, and I don't think we've seen her try any non-pro bono cases this season (she may have offscreen).

Bonnie said can't take any "real" cases since she's running the clinic when she was packing up files at AK's. I'm assuming part of the deal with running the clinic is not to take any new cases, Perhaps to avoid any potential conflict of interest (?)

[Keepitmoving]

6 hours ago, doram said:

They're keeping it a secret now. The flashforwards are 2 weeks later.

If Wes's "betrayal" is some sort of Annalisse-esque set-up then that makes it 2 reasons why Bonnie would be calling him. 

We shall see, I'm just not feeling like she's talking to Wes. I can't even see her having Wes's cell number. By the way, did she make the call or was she answering a call?