S01.E06: Career Days

[PRgal]

On 2016-11-04 at 0:00 AM, luna1122 said:

I think Hollywood and the fashion industry really does believe that anything over a size ten is morbidly obese. a 12, a 22, a 32....all the same in the entertainment world.

 

Try being Asian - especially first generation with strong connections to the old country.  Back in the 90s, my went back to Hong Kong to visit family  and a sales associate at a department store suggested she look in the plus department.  My mom was probably an 8 at the time.  She's still 8-ish now, 20 years later. 

[SlackerInc]

On 11/4/2016 at 10:50 AM, random chance said:

Me too. I can watch (fictional) people do any number of godawful things to each other without crying, but show me an animal in a bad situation and I'm toast. Even cartoon animals.

I know SO many people who feel this way.  I don't understand it personally, even though I do like animals (well, dogs), but it seems to be super common.  My soft spot is when children are in harm's way.

On 11/4/2016 at 3:27 PM, kili said:

Kate fully expected to get fired for what she did. Kate did not want a job where she was expected to drive around a nasty teenager who took pleasure in endlessly humiliating her. If Kate wanted a job rehabilitating brats, she would be looking for job with that as the job description. She wasn't. She was looking for a job as a party planner.  Kate came back expecting to be out of a job, but her employer admitted that she was more out of line than Kate was.

Yes, this.  She was out of fucks to give, and not only expected to be fired, but to be reported to the police.

On 11/4/2016 at 4:39 PM, Eeksquire said:

Sadly, I think this is part of the problem - statistically, kids are now safer than they have been (at least in the US, broadly speaking - specific locations obviously vary) at almost any other point in history.  But because we have mass media, any one instance is much more publicized than it ever was in history, so there is more fear of something that is less likely.  I don't think Kate was terribly out of line in doing what she did, but I think it was BONKERS for her to expect continued employment.

Where do you get that she expected continued employment?  And while you are right that kids are safer than they have ever been, I think that's mostly because of the trend toward what is often derided as "helicopter parenting".

22 hours ago, BoogieBurns said:

I've cried every single episode, but not because of something I wish I had. I'm not trying to say psychology is wrong, I just wonder why my brain is wired different. I cry almost every time William is on the screen. When he was getting blood tests and such at Randall's doctor referral, that was the hardest I cried until Kate grabbed the urn. I just cry. Only during this show. But I don't wish I was given up for adoption and my birth father was dying of cancer. It makes me sad.

Yeah, I don't totally buy the theory either.

22 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

My take wasn't that he was making it about himself, at least initially. The widow had just offered him her husband's clothes, saying that her teenage son didn't want any of it. I think it started as a clumsy attempt on his part, using his own experience,  to tell the widow not to be in a hurry to get rid of stuff, because her son might come around to wanting something of his father's and regret that he'd rejected the idea of keepsakes.

Right.  This, and also: "Don't worry that your son is being abnormal or cruel.  My dad died at a similar age and I reacted the same way."

[OtterMommy]

3 hours ago, possibilities said:

What I thought happened with Kate is that they got in the car, turned off the driveway into the street, Kate asked where they were going, the kid refused to tell her, and Kate kicked her out. In other words, the kid was right by her very own house. It was bolder than I would have been. But if you have a teenager who is this defiant, Kate had not many good choices.

 

This is a good point.  I highly doubt Kate (or anyone) would drive for 20 minutes before going, "Hey, do you have the address to this place?"  She probably dropped the girl off one block from her own house.

[Randomosity]

On 11/2/2016 at 9:41 AM, GodsBeloved said:

And did I feel Kate when she saw that S on Becca's shirt then checked out the XL on her sweater.

 

On 11/2/2016 at 10:31 AM, ZaldamoWilder said:

So I get what we were supposed to get here but I thought even the fictional comparison was unfair if Kate never realizes that she's looking at a tag in children's sizes compared to a tag in adult sizes.   A girl's 8-10 XL and and adult S, not that far apart.

I just came to say the same as the second quote. I see what they were going for, but it didn't actually make any sense because it's not like little Kate was wearing an adult XL.

 

 

On 11/2/2016 at 2:07 PM, ClareWalks said:

That's a good point. I wonder why the principal didn't suggest some other options (like a G&T program, or a tutor, or maybe even skipping a grade). 

 

On 11/2/2016 at 2:09 PM, PRgal said:

There are also public school programs for gifted kids.  They usually require testing and admissions is basically like a private school.  Except, of course, you save like $20-30K.

 

On 11/2/2016 at 2:24 PM, ChromaKelly said:

Yeah, I really can't see a public school recommending a student NOT attend public school anymore, unless they are such a bad fit and the school system has exhausted every opportunity to serve that child.
This is the 80's when kids were all tested and put in their tracks - below average, average, and GT. Everyone knew who was in what. There were no attempts to mainstream or come up with cute names for the reading and math groups in elementary school. I remember our reading groups were gold, silver, and bronze. Gee, lets crack that code. I thought when I saw the previews about Randall being gifted, he was going to get moved to the GT class while K&K stayed behind and that would cause a rift.
Oh well, this is TV, and for plot expediency, this is the route they went.

Gifted programs were not a hard and fast rule. You can't assume those schools would have had them, even in the 80s and 90s. Nor can you assume there were tracks. I'm a grand total of two years younger than the triplets, and my school was already plowing ahead with 'Everyone is equal' before I even made it to middle school. They did away with the talented and gifted program after I finished third grade. The only 'gifted' thing I had in middle school was thanks to three teachers who took it upon themselves to make an after-school advanced math program when I was in 6th grade. They got rid of honors classes in high school after my 9th grade year. I'm lucky they at least kept AP classes, though they pretty much let anyone attempt those, not just 'gifted' kids. My class was the first year to not have a valedictorian/salutatorian because it was unfair to the 400 kids who weren't the two smartest.

The only thing my district ever offered was skipping a grade. But that's not a particularly good solution given potential social hurdles associated with being the 'wrong' age for your grade. My parents refused skipping for both me and my brother.

Public/private also varies considerable by region/district. My school district was solidly mediocre, but offerings at local private schools were even more limited. In large part, kids at private schools near me were either there for religious reasons, or because they had behavioral/scholastic problems in public school. On the other hand, I had cousins in a similar geographic setting but a state over. Their public schools were abysmal and private schools were well regarded. So we stayed public, they went private.

As other people have mentioned, smart kids are generally going to succeed whether or not they have gifted classes, whether or not they stay in public school. I was fine. I went to one of the top universities in North America. I have a PhD. Even coming out of my mediocre school district. Someone mentioned Gilmore Girls - I actually think Rory would have been better off coming out as tops of her small-town school. Places like Yale get smart prep/private school kids by the bucketful, but a small-town smarty pants adds to their diversity. Didn't matter for Rory regardless, so I digress.

In Randall's case, I think getting him away from his same-grade siblings was crucial, and a factor that would not have played in were he a differently-aged sibling or an only child. So I'll give the private school thing a pass here.

 

On 11/3/2016 at 3:44 PM, BoogieBurns said:

Depends on the school. But they don't have the same requirements for licensing (at least here in Texas) because they aren't funded by taxes. My good friend has her master's in History but zero knowledge about how to teach it and she is the head of the History department at a private middle school. A Master's in US History is much different than a Bachelor's in Secondary Education and her students would be behind if they transferred to public school. She never even took a certification test, and none of the teachers in 7th grade with her did either. 

Yup. Public school teachers need to be certified by the state in which they teach, for the subject they teach. The tests are not particularly rigorous, so often the public school teacher has far more background in pedagogical techniques than actual subject matter. Meanwhile, private schools are not subject to the certification tests, so they can go out and get a biology teacher who has a PhD in biology, but not necessarily background in teaching. So what one considers 'qualified' depends on your perspective.

[femmefan1946]

Somebody posted that at private schools, the teachers could be less qualified than at public.  Is there truth to this?  

My nephew teaches in private schools (English as a Second Language, mostly Asian). He has an Ontario teaching certificate, but it's well out of date and he doesn't teach in that province. Many of his colleagues don't have any teaching backgrounds.

My husband's uncle was Registrar at THE Ontario private school (he got the job by having the right accent) and his son was accepted there. He always said his daughters got a much better education at the public schools they attended than their brother, in part because the teachers were better. Again, hired for having the right background, not their academics or teaching skills.

And this was in the 50s and 60s when public schools, overwhelmed by the Baby Boom, were taking anyone as teachers. (In Grade 13, where most of us were 18 years old, our German teacher was 20 and our English teacher was 21. There was one boy in the class who was older than either of them.) (He was also  the school bootlegger, btw.)

[jeansheridan]

On 11/1/2016 at 8:56 PM, voiceover said:

Aw, crap.  I've been sitting here, trying to remember a better TV dad than Jack.  

(Gimme a minute.)

Milo is killing it with the young actors who play his children.  Every time I think it'll drop into schmaltz, he just...saves it.

Veronica Mars had the Best. Dad. Ever.  Heck, he booby trapped a safe with blue ink because he knew his daughter well enough that she couldn't resist breaking into it.  

[jeansheridan]

I loved loved loved not seeing Toby.  Not sure why I dislike him so, but there you go.  Kate is a 1000 times more interesting without him.  I have no idea if they will show her former boss but if they do cast the character please let it be either Adam Baldwin or Oliver Platt.  

Randell is a delightful geek as is the 8 year old who plays him.  His joy at wearing a tie!  I know little boys who love wearing ties.  

Is is wrong I wanted the widow to hook up with Kevin?  Because I actually think he had more chemistry with her than his method acting co-star.  Damn she really wants another Tony, doesn't she?  I guess whatever works but I think it was utterly crass of her to crash a memorial.  Do actors really do such things?  Just seems excessively self absorbed and intrusive.  

I do like that the New York director and the writer were kind of harsh on Kevin.  He's been the star on what seems to be long-running show and even though that director wasn't especially nice to him either, he was probably catered to in many ways.  No more catering.  And it's good for him.  I hope the play is a success.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

19 hours ago, Randomosity said:

 

On 11/2/2016 at 9:41 AM, GodsBeloved said:

And did I feel Kate when she saw that S on Becca's shirt then checked out the XL on her sweater.

 

On 11/2/2016 at 10:31 AM, ZaldamoWilder said:

So I get what we were supposed to get here but I thought even the fictional comparison was unfair if Kate never realizes that she's looking at a tag in children's sizes compared to a tag in adult sizes.   A girl's 8-10 XL and and adult S, not that far apart.

I just came to say the same as the second quote. I see what they were going for, but it didn't actually make any sense because it's not like little Kate was wearing an adult XL.

 

Are you sure that Kate doesn't get, based on the labels, that she is at the largest end of girl's clothing and her mom is near the smallest end of misses's sizes? (I believe that a girl's XL is 16). And if it's true that a girl's XL is not much smaller than a miss's S, and Kate realizes that, how much the sadder she must be.

Edited November 7, 2016 by ItCouldBeWorse

[Clanstarling]

47 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

I loved loved loved not seeing Toby.  Not sure why I dislike him so, but there you go

You know, I like Toby, but I must admit I did not miss him.

 

45 minutes ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Are you sure that Kate doesn't get based on the labels that she is at the largest end of girl's clothing and her mom is near the smallest end of miss's sizes? (I believe that a girl's XL is 16). And if it's true that a girl's XL is not much smaller than a miss's S, and Kate realizes that, how much the sadder she must be.

That was kind of my thought as well. As a chubby kid, I certainly was well aware I was at the large end of the children's sizes. Even though I didn't have a skinny mom, I still remember when she had to buy to chubby girl sizes for me. I think they were actually called that, or something along those lines (mid-60's). I cried - a lot.

[jeansheridan]

One detail struck me as being so real to my life.  Rebecca rewarding the kids for good grades with ice cream.  My mom did that with all three of us too but I was the big kid.  Imagine how hard it would be to have two brothers who probably eat a lot (especially in the teen years) and you just can't eat the same things and stay thin.  I had older  sisters who smoked and skipped meals to stay thin. Not the best role models.  

 

 And Rebecca's casual, "It's clean and it fits!" to her daughter.  Ug.  Although I have friends with thin children who have growth spurts and suddenly can't fit their favorite jeans or whatever.  So it happens to average kids too.   It just doesn't sting as much.

Also, I would like young Kate to have some interests other than her weight!  Randall has his Rubik's cube and math.  Kevin has airplane models.  Lets see some of this hyper organized skills the adult Kate has!  That's a trait that emerges really young.  

Edited November 7, 2016 by jeansheridan

[Dejana]

2 hours ago, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Are you sure that Kate doesn't get based on the labels that she is at the largest end of girl's clothing and her mom is near the smallest end of miss's sizes? (I believe that a girl's XL is 16). And if it's true that a girl's XL is not much smaller than a miss's S, and Kate realizes that, how much the sadder she must be.

 

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

That was kind of my thought as well. As a chubby kid, I certainly was well aware I was at the large end of the children's sizes. Even though I didn't have a skinny mom, I still remember when she had to buy to chubby girl sizes for me. I think they were actually called that, or something along those lines (mid-60's). I cried - a lot.

Yeah, Young Kate was probably starting to work out that if she'd reached the limits of kids' sizes at Age 8 that when she grows up, maybe she's not going to get twirled around and told how light she is, like Mommy. Culturally, there can be a lot of expectations for a girl to resemble her mother, especially when that mother is considered very attractive. It can really sting for the child if she isn't regarded the same way, and you don't have to be very old to tell which girls are thought to be pretty and which ones aren't.  It doesn't matter to everyone of course, but it clearly did for Kate as a little girl. I worry about the young actress portraying her.

 

I love how TV makes Career Day such a big deal, with the parents and kids having so much anxiety about not having a cool enough job to impress the class, as if no other kid's parent will also have a boring job, or sketchy job, or no job at all for the time being. Of course I went to public schools on the "bad" side of town, so maybe my teachers just skipped Career Day to spare everyone the embarrassment?

Edited November 7, 2016 by Dejana

[photo fox]

Guys, just a friendly reminder to keep the focus of the conversation on this episode.  Not that the anecdotes about the comparative benefits of private versus public schools aren't interesting, because they are, but if it doesn't directly relate to Randall's experience in this episode, it's veering away from the topic.

Cheers!

[kili]

Quote

Also, I would like young Kate to have some interests other than her weight!  Randall has his Rubik's cube and math.  Kevin has airplane models.

She was playing the piano in this episode - she was playing almost as well as her mother and she is only about 8 in the episode. Randall also mentions that Kate and Rebecca are talented at the piano.

[PRgal]

I wonder if there's a story on how the family decided Randall was the one to inherit the piano (it's the same piano Rebecca played in the flashback scenes, right?).  Probably something as easy as a distance thing.  I mean, New Jersey vs. California, right?

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Dejana said:

I love how TV makes Career Day such a big deal, with the parents and kids having so much anxiety about not having a cool enough job to impress the class, as if no other kid's parent will also have a boring job, or sketchy job, or no job at all for the time being. Of course I went to public schools on the "bad" side of town, so maybe my teachers just skipped Career Day to spare everyone the embarrassment?

The ones I remember weren't in a school auditorium.   More like a teacher would ask one volunteer parent to come talk to the class for 5-10 minutes at 9am and another to come at 9:15, and so on.  It was no pressure, just casual.  Mostly a short description of your career then you field a few questions.  And it would be a small sampling of parents who volunteered.

Edited November 7, 2016 by Guest

[ZaldamoWilder]

On 11/5/2016 at 8:15 PM, SlackerInc said:

I know SO many people who feel this way.  I don't understand it personally, even though I do like animals (well, dogs), but it seems to be super common.  My soft spot is when children are in harm's way.

Yes, this.  She was out of fucks to give, and not only expected to be fired, but to be reported to the police.

Where do you get that she expected continued employment?  And while you are right that kids are safer than they have ever been, I think that's mostly because of the trend toward what is often derided as "helicopter parenting".

Yeah, I don't totally buy the theory either.

Right.  This, and also: "Don't worry that your son is being abnormal or cruel.  My dad died at a similar age and I reacted the same way."

Which brings me back to the question nobody answered.  If what Kate did wasn't nutty at best and potentially dangerous at worst, why would this have been her expectation?

[Guest]

Because some parents freak out when an employee disciplines their child.  Some expect the employee to.  It's not black or white.  

[ShadowFacts]

I think Kate knew she was wrong and expected to be treated accordingly.  The kid pushed her buttons, she let her emotions dictate her reaction instead of being more calm and mature than the kid was. 

[jeansheridan]

40 minutes ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

Which brings me back to the question nobody answered.  If what Kate did wasn't nutty at best and potentially dangerous at worst, why would this have been her expectation?

Also this mother allowed a relative stranger to drive her daughter around.  A stranger the daughter had been horribly rude too.  And not required to apologize.  She owed Kate a second chance if only to make up for the girl's rudeness.  Oh and she repeated the insult!  Had the girl used a racial slur, she would not have done that.   That girl was old enough to walk home which she clearly did.  It was a reasonable punishment.  But I can see why Kate expected to be fired.  She didn't do a simple task and reprimanded her employer's child.  I am of the opinion if a parent releases their child into the care of a nanny or caretaker that child needs to obey the adult in charge but many parents think otherwise. Kate had no idea how Marin would react.

Edited November 7, 2016 by jeansheridan

[joanne3482]

On 11/3/2016 at 6:44 PM, Big Mother said:

I'm still baffled how a person with incurable stage four cancer is still such a picture of health and good cheer.

I work in HR. I had an employee keep coming into my office to talk about when she would be able to return to work.  I knew she had uterine cancer which had spread to her brain. I called her provider to ask about her prognosis because our life insurance had an accelerated death benefit (basically if she had less than 2 years to live she could get most of her life insurance while still alive and she could use that money to go visit her kids in Europe before she died).  They told me she should have passed months ago. They couldn't explain what was keeping her alive. So people with cancer can sometimes do amazing things. Especially if William is not receiving chemo anymore. 

[DeepPoet117]

2 hours ago, PRgal said:

I wonder if there's a story on how the family decided Randall was the one to inherit the piano (it's the same piano Rebecca played in the flashback scenes, right?).  Probably something as easy as a distance thing.  I mean, New Jersey vs. California, right?

It could also be that Randall has kids old enough for piano lessons. I didn't pay attention to see if it was the same one, but thinking back, it did look similar.

[ZaldamoWilder]

1 hour ago, jeansheridan said:

Also this mother allowed a relative stranger to drive her daughter around.  A stranger the daughter had been horribly rude too.  And not required to apologize.  She owed Kate a second chance if only to make up for the girl's rudeness.  Oh and she repeated the insult!  Had the girl used a racial slur, she would not have done that.   That girl was old enough to walk home which she clearly did.  It was a reasonable punishment.  But I can see why Kate expected to be fired.  She didn't do a simple task and reprimanded her employer's child.  I am of the opinion if a parent releases their child into the care of a nanny or caretaker that child needs to obey the adult in charge but many parents think otherwise. Kate had no idea how Marin would react.

I agreed that Gemma was disrespectful and typically I don't have any trouble with the adult in charge addressing the disrespect.  My thing is Kate's execution is beyond what Marin would've done.  She said so herself in stating that I've wanted to put her out of the car many a time myself.   That's almost like spanking a kid whose parents don't spank (not b/c it's their policy but they simply haven't).   Substituting your judgement as the adult in charge is what's required and I get that, but taking a step that the child's parent wouldn't (because they have not up to this point) is where it turns problematic (for me).   Marin, thank you lol, couldn't remember Jamie's character's name for anything.  

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Because some parents freak out when an employee disciplines their child.  Some expect the employee to.  It's not black or white.  

Ok.  I'll shutup now cause we disagree on that scenario being disciplinary. 

[kili]

Quote

I wonder if there's a story on how the family decided Randall was the one to inherit the piano (it's the same piano Rebecca played in the flashback scenes, right?).  Probably something as easy as a distance thing.  I mean, New Jersey vs. California, right?

Randall said that only Kate and Rebecca are talented at the piano. Since Kate said that she barely speaks with her mother, she probably didn't want her mother's piano (plus, she told Toby she has given up on music - that may be because of her self-esteem issues or because of the mommy issues).

Randall specifically did not mention Kevin in the "who is good at my family with music", so it is not unusual that he does not have the piano. Plus, as an actor, he probably lived a bit of a transient life (moving for the job, scraping by) until he got his big break on the Mannie.

So, of the three siblings, it makes the most sense for Randall to have it. He lives closest to the family home, has a stable life and appears to still like his Mom.

What is unusual is that Rebecca is not the current owner of her beloved piano. Earlier, her music was very important to her. She's still alive and living in the area. She appears to live in a tax bracket where her husband's co-worker gives other co-workers tickets to "Hamilton" (tickets that you could sell for a lot of money).  Her husband, almost 30 years ago, was her then husband's boss and had a corner office.  So, he is probably doing pretty well and does not need to sell her possessions in order to support her retirement years.

So, did she ditch the old piano because she got a new one? Did you give it to her son so her grandchildren could learn on it? Did she give it up because she lost her love of music?

As Kevin would say, there is probably a story there.

[theatremouse]

3 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

My thing is Kate's execution is beyond what Marin would've done.  She said so herself in stating that I've wanted to put her out of the car many a time myself.

My recollection of the scene was that the mother said she had left the daughter out of the car, on multiple occasions. Kate had no way of knowing that before, so no reason to assume it was cool, and the mom didn't describe doing it in the exact same way (left at mall vs on sidewalk), but I thought when the mother found out her response was basically "yeah, been there, no prob."

Edited November 7, 2016 by theatremouse

[ZaldamoWilder]

I get what you're saying.   I think that it says something that, despite years more experience and temptation with Gemma, and though she's done something similar, Marin hasn't actually put her out in the street before.  

[Sake614]

10 hours ago, joanne3482 said:

I work in HR. I had an employee keep coming into my office to talk about when she would be able to return to work.  I knew she had uterine cancer which had spread to her brain. I called her provider to ask about her prognosis because our life insurance had an accelerated death benefit (basically if she had less than 2 years to live she could get most of her life insurance while still alive and she could use that money to go visit her kids in Europe before she died).  They told me she should have passed months ago. They couldn't explain what was keeping her alive. So people with cancer can sometimes do amazing things. Especially if William is not receiving chemo anymore. 

My aunt was diagnosed with uterine cancer and given three months to live if she didn't have chemo etc. she told her doctors to fuck off, traveled around the world and outlived three of her doctors. She finally passed 10 years later.

[kat165]

Sake, your aunt rocks. And that gives us hope for William.

[possibilities]

Kate didn't know what Marin would or wouldn't have done, and notably Marin didn't tell her, even knowing that her daughter was a hellion. I think Marin was negligent in hiring Kate with the idea that maybe Kate could reach her daughter, who had serious issues, and not sharing this information with Kate, or giving any guidance about managing the situation or even what the situation was.

[Dowel Jones]

On 11/6/2016 at 4:13 PM, jeansheridan said:

...and even though that director wasn't especially nice to him either, he was probably catered to in many ways.

What I got from that scene is that Kevin had been The Manny for so long that he immersed himself in this fluff part that required no real acting ability, and he's still holding on to that philosophy, but the real world's calling now and he has to grow up.

 

On 11/6/2016 at 5:04 PM, Clanstarling said:

You know, I like Toby, but I must admit I did not miss him.

It wasn't till the previews that it occurred to me, "Hey, there wasn't any Toby this week."

[SlackerInc]

18 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

The ones I remember weren't in a school auditorium.   More like a teacher would ask one volunteer parent to come talk to the class for 5-10 minutes at 9am and another to come at 9:15, and so on.  It was no pressure, just casual.  Mostly a short description of your career then you field a few questions.  And it would be a small sampling of parents who volunteered.

Pondering this, it occurs to me that I've internalized the idea that this is a near-universal thing because of TV.  But when I really think about it, I don't think it ever happened where I went to school.  Now, I went to school in three different states (and one foreign country for part of high school), so it's possible it was done in say fifth grade in one place and sixth in the other and I managed to miss it.

17 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

Which brings me back to the question nobody answered.  If what Kate did wasn't nutty at best and potentially dangerous at worst, why would this have been her expectation?

Well, what it incontrovertibly was, was a kind of insubordination when she had just barely started the job.  But when she said "I understand if you want to press charges", that's sort of acknowledging that it would be kind of a "ticky tack" thing to report someone to the cops for.  By saying that, the way I take it is "look, no one was hurt, so let's just part ways amicably...but I'm going to try to defuse any thought you might have that you could technically sic the legal system on me by acknowledging that you have that right".

I just think fundamentally, for a teenager with a phone in a residential neighborhood not far from home, it's not dangerous.

[Sake614]

I can state with absolute certainty that I never, EVER had a 'career day' at school. Not in elementary, not in junior high and not in high school. I grew up and went to school in NYC and never heard of it except on TV. that's not to say it never happened, but certainly not in my schools, and no friends ever mentioned it taking place in theirs either. I can't even imagine any parents getting up in front of an entire auditorium to discuss what they do for a living. Maybe today it's different, but back in the '60s-70s? What parent even had time to take off work for something like that? Hell, my father just barely got off work long enough to attend my junior high graduation and grab some lunch. There was no going out for a fancy lunch like everyone else. We went to the luncheonette and then home because he had to get to work (he was a salesman for an appliance/electronics store).

[Guest]

I only remember my daughter having some sort of career day in elementary school maybe around 4th grade because she came home and told me that a kid in her class, his family owned a local Mexican restaurant, and his dad brought in taquitos for the class, and could we buy them some time.  Heh.  She might've told me a few other of the careers that got shared.  I don't think she asked us to share.  Our careers are hard to describe, much like Randall's.  

I think it's just a fun activity some teachers choose to do, kind of like a zoo field trip.  

[ShadowFacts]

11 hours ago, possibilities said:

Kate didn't know what Marin would or wouldn't have done, and notably Marin didn't tell her, even knowing that her daughter was a hellion. I think Marin was negligent in hiring Kate with the idea that maybe Kate could reach her daughter, who had serious issues, and not sharing this information with Kate, or giving any guidance about managing the situation or even what the situation was.

I agree, and Marin's parenting was sad.  If you have a mouthy child who was just rude and provocative, you don't send them off to their friend's with cell phone in hand unless you want more of the same.  If Gemma suddenly straightens out based off of her interaction with Kate, I won't be buying it, either.  Reversal of this behavior is going to take some hands-on parenting from the parent.  I think more scenes where we can compare and contrast how Kate related to Rebecca will be fine, but I don't want to see Kate become the brat whisperer. 

[joanne3482]

43 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I agree, and Marin's parenting was sad.  If you have a mouthy child who was just rude and provocative, you don't send them off to their friend's with cell phone in hand unless you want more of the same.

Especially since it isn't like Gemma just woke up like this. I always was flummoxed at those Maury shows in the past where "My teenager is out of control." Marin let Gemma get this way. Had she done x, or y or z while Gemma was younger she wouldn't be such a horrible person now.  I hope we do get to see more of Jamie Gertz. I have always liked her. But I do not love the Gemma storyline.  

[ClareWalks]

Totally agree that the parenting is the problem. Whether or not people think Kate dropping Gemma off on the sidewalk was OTT, at least we can agree that the little brat should have been parented better from the jump.

[kili]

My son's class had a career month. The schedule was flexible so that parents could find a time that worked for them (and there would only be one parent per day - 10 parents did presentations). 

Most places also have a take-your-kid-to-work day at some point (Grade 9 here)

Edited November 9, 2016 by kili

[Sake614]

Take your child (formerly daughters) to work day is a national event in mid-April. My company has activities planned for the kids every year. For me, almost any time I was home from school was a 'take your kid to work day,' lol! I went into my mom's office and she put me to work, making copies, typing and/or stuffing envelopes etc.

[Amarg4387]

I was skeptical about Mandy playing this role at first even though I love her but wow, I think she's absolutely killing it! Especially in the episode where Jack's drinking is addressed. Randall and Beth are one of my favorite TV couples ever. Milo is also killing it as Jack and does have such great scenes with the kids.

I'm still warming up to Kate's character. It really broke my heart when she looked at the tag on her clothing and then at her mother's.  I can definitely relate to her the most but I'm wondering where her story line is going.

I'm totally annoyed with Olivia and thought her funeral crashing was super unrealistic and inappropriate. I'm liking Kevin more and more as time goes on. I love that he is struggling to be the best he can be and not settle, he is learning to believe in himself and see what he is really made of. I really loved the closing scene he had with Randall's girls last episode and the conversation he had with William.

Speaking of William, I find it so interesting that Randall is above average intellectually, makes me think that William was also gifted. Unfortunately for William, he probably didn't have the money or means to continue his education and then turned to drugs. I really hope they explore more about Randall's mother, it'd be awesome if it turns out that she is still alive even though it looks as if she has passed away after Randall was born.

Still very interested to see what happens with Jack's death and how Rebecca ended up with Miguel. I also can't wait to have a scene with Rebecca and adult Kate and Kevin. Can't wait till next week!

Edited November 9, 2016 by Amarg4387

[chocolatine]

33 minutes ago, Amarg4387 said:

I really hope they explore more about Randall's mother, it'd be awesome if it turns out that she is still alive even though it looks as if she has passed away after Randall was born.

YMMV, but to me, that would push the show firmly into soap opera territory, and I'd rather not see that happen.

[romantic idiot]

The looking at the tag was the weirdest thing for me (and I've been fat all my life - though never had a skinny mom so maybe that explains it). But why would a kid randomly check out the tag? I'd look at the dress etc. but is it normal practice for little girls to roam around checking out the tags on other people's clothing?

[Sake614]

I think she pulled the shirt out of the closet and happened to see the size. Then she checked the size on her own shirt/dress and became even more aware of her weight/the difference than she was before. At least that's my take. 

[DebbieM4]

On 11/3/2016 at 9:39 AM, PRgal said:

But Kate didn't know what to do.  Gemma was not about to give her Ashley's address.  What's Kate supposed to do?  Just keep on driving?  Was her boss even available to talk (if she called)?

I would have driven her home.  Let her sit in the car if she pouts and refuses to get out.  Or let her get out and walk away if that's what she chooses to do.   But I absolutely would have brought her back home.  IMO, it's the most responsible thing to do in that situation.  Forcing her out of the car in some random location was foolish, and could have had terrible consequences, which would have been Kate's fault.  But regardless, she's not Gemma's parent.  It would have made sense all the way around to have had a discussion to address exactly how much leeway Kate had.  I might be fine having my young child, for example, walk home from school, or having my teenage daughter change her mind & go to a different friend's house than originally planned, or whatever.  But that would be my decision as a parent.  And I would not be happy with someone doing what Kate did unless clear parameters had been discussed prior.  Especially in the case of a brand-new employee.

Personally, if I were Kate, I would have insisted on knowing exactly where we were going before it reached that point.  But maybe that's just me.

Edited November 11, 2016 by DebbieM4
I left out one of my most important points!

[photo fox]

Agreed, @Winston9-DT3 - I don't see any danger there.  Gemma's not a little child.  She's a teenager with a smartphone in a suburban neighborhood.  She can call her mom, text a friend, request an Uber.  Heck, if she was worried, she could have simply apologized to Kate.  She clearly had no hesitance about walking in that neighborhood.  She was just pissed at Kate calling her out and standing up for herself.

If I were Kate, I would have dumped her out just the same.  If anything, I would have called her mother and said, "your daughter was being a total bitch to me, so I kicked her out of my car.  If you want her, I left her at (intersection).  Oh, and I quit.  Be your own kid's mother."

[ZaldamoWilder]

2 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I'm surprised how many people thought that was dangerous.  That never even crossed my mind.  Maybe if it was the freeway.  I have a teen, though.  I'm a helicopter parent but I would totally let her walk in upscale neighborhoods in the day time alone with her phone, within a mile of her house.  At night, even.  Without her phone, even.  

The whole scenario was so manufactured.  If Gemma didn't want to spend time with Kate, which she didn't, why would she not tell her the destination?  It just seemed like an awkward shortcut to arrive at Kate being plucky and standing up for Kate.

It turned out ok, but the potential is what could've been a problem.  

I think an essential part of the argument is that as her parent, that's entirely your prerogative to do.

[ClareWalks]

I just can't even believe people are so upset about Kate ditching that brat in a nice neighborhood right by her house. "Anything could happen," yeah, I guess. Anything could happen to anyone at any time. She could have gotten struck by lightning at her friend's house. She could have walked 2 blocks to the store and been kidnapped and sold into sex trafficking. I guess I just refuse to be that paranoid all the time.

[ShadowFacts]

21 hours ago, romantic idiot said:

The looking at the tag was the weirdest thing for me (and I've been fat all my life - though never had a skinny mom so maybe that explains it). But why would a kid randomly check out the tag? I'd look at the dress etc. but is it normal practice for little girls to roam around checking out the tags on other people's clothing?

That was an anvil to me, like it was for the audience's benefit -- see how much the little girl knows she is big and her mom is not?  I got it already.

[possibilities]

Do teenagers never go for a walk just for exercise? Do they never go outdoors at all? I don't get what was dangerous about it. I really don't. It's not like she was five years old, in some unfamiliar part of town, miles from home, with no means of communication.

Also, are employees supposed to tolerate abuse?

[DebbieM4]

16 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I'm surprised how many people thought that was dangerous.  That never even crossed my mind.  Maybe if it was the freeway.  I have a teen, though.  I'm a helicopter parent but I would totally let her walk in upscale neighborhoods in the day time alone with her phone, within a mile of her house.  At night, even.  Without her phone, even.  

The whole scenario was so manufactured.  If Gemma didn't want to spend time with Kate, which she didn't, why would she not tell her the destination?  It just seemed like an awkward shortcut to arrive at Kate being plucky and standing up for Kate.

As a parent, I would do the same.  But as an employee, I would know it was not my call to make.

Parents know their own children and are within their rights to make decisions like that.  Kate is not Gemma's parent.  She was instructed by her employer to bring her daughter somewhere, and that's what she should have done.  If that was impossible, then she should have called to say so and/or returned home with her.  For all Kate knew, there could have been a compelling reason why the mother wanted Gemma to be driven and did not want her out walking.  Maybe she's gotten herself into trouble, maybe she can't be trusted, maybe someone who bullies her lives on the next block, maybe walking by herself has been problematic in the past.   What's perfectly safe for one kid may not be for another.  What she did was way too heavy-handed under the circumstances, IMO, especially considering she barely knew the mother or the daughter, and really had no idea how unhinged this kid could get.  And - as we all know - anything can happen anywhere.  If I were Kate, I wouldn't have decided on my own to take a risk with someone else's child.  I think the point this show was attempting to make could have been accomplished in a much better way.

I do agree that the whole thing didn't ring true.  In real life, Gemma would have been doing everything she could to minimize her time with Kate and to interact with her as little as possible.  I love this show, but felt that the scene didn't fit into it at all.  Neither one of them behaved in ways that made sense to me.  And it's very clear exactly where the whole thing with the two of them is going.  I hope they don't spend too much time on it.  

[DebbieM4]

On 11/6/2016 at 7:16 PM, ItCouldBeWorse said:

Are you sure that Kate doesn't get, based on the labels, that she is at the largest end of girl's clothing and her mom is near the smallest end of misses's sizes? (I believe that a girl's XL is 16). And if it's true that a girl's XL is not much smaller than a miss's S, and Kate realizes that, how much the sadder she must be.

I don't know if a girl that age would care very much beyond the visual of seeing "XL" vs. "Small".   I'm not sure she would be thinking about girl sizes and adult sizes.  I mean, there's her thin Mom, with "S" clothes, and there's Kate, bigger than anyone else she knows, and her labels say "XL".  It probably seemed, in her mind, that she was as far away from "S" as she possibly could have been.  I kind of think that visual was enough all its own, without her thinking things through or understanding exactly how sizes work.  Just a guess.

[lark37]

On 11/2/2016 at 6:22 AM, ShadowFacts said:

There were false notes in this one, chiefly the crashing of the funeral.  Very, very tacky and offensive and they could have just as easily had the memorial be for someone Olivia knew from the theater community.  Sex in the mourner's home, keeping it classy.  The Career Day cringefest was a little over the top.  But it may have been Rebecca that bugged me even more.  It's not realistic for her to have been working on her music in the same room as sleeping triplets.  If you have a sleeping infant, never mind three of them, the last thing you do is make noise.  Even worse was Kate's comment that everyone in sight still to this day hits on her beautiful mother.  Even if it was hyperbole to get through to Gemma, I thought it was a tad too much.  She's not that great!

Private piano and voice teacher here and I have to disagree.  My children even as infants were accustomed to music in the house even when they were sleeping. Haven't you heard that parents aren't supposed to keep quiet when babies are sleeping? Most pediatricians agree that its best to keep your home life normal and not tiptoe around sleeping children. If you are quiet while they are sleeping, they are more likely to develop sleep issues. Obviously one doesn't make loud startling noise but the soft piano and singing she was doing was probably something the children were accustomed to hearing. Also, I adore Mandy Moore, and as the biggest celeb in the cast, I expect some pandering to her ego as they did by having her sing.