S03.E04: The New Rogues

[kirinan]

The rest of this episode was fine, but I am SO disappointed in how little they used Snart. It was a waste of the character and a waste of Wentworth Miller, IMO (although to jump into the shallow end for a moment, he looked fantastic in that flashback). You could have inserted any random villain in his place for Mirror Master to be PO'd at. Of course, I'll take whatever we can get of Snart, even if it makes me realize anew how much I miss having the character on my screen every week. So boo, writers and producers, you suck and you owe me more Snart.

One question: I must have missed this part, because I was in and out of the room near the end. How did they get the interactive hologram of Cold in the parka? Do we just assume the team just CGI'd him, or did they explain it at all? 

Good things: Loved Harry and Cisco trying to one-up each other; those two are so perfect together. Also enjoyed the interaction between Joe, Barry, and Iris as they tried to figure the personal things out. I want Joe to ask that woman out--he was very cute with his shyness and all.

Bad things: The handling of Snart--I was at least hoping for a tag at the end where he'd show up. Speaking of which, I just don't care about Killer Frost, although I can't help it, I like Caitlin. And please, don't take Harry away and leave us with Hipster Harry. I just didn't like him at all. I think they mean for us not to trust him, which probably means he's a big red herring, but I prefer irascible Earth 2 Harry, thank you very much.

Edited October 26, 2016 by kirinan

[maxineofarc]

Top's outfit! I want it SO BAD.

I still can't get behind Barry and Iris, A Love For The Ages. I've never felt like the actors had anywhere near the chemistry with each other that they have demonstrated with other people (Barry/Felicity 4eva), and I felt like I needed to avert my eyes during their makeout scenes. I kept thinking "dude, s/he's your sister/brother!" because I haven't gotten the sense of Vast Repressed Passion from them over the last 2 seasons that I think would be required to sell this to me. Basically I am Joe.

I always thought I hated Wentworth Miller's performance as Snart, but when he got a little screen time tonight I realized I've actually missed him. Not enough to start watching Legends of Tomorrow, but I missed him. Missed Julian this week too; he livens things up. I really hope he doesn't turn out to be Alchemy just because he's the new guy on the show, but he probably will.

I'm really going to miss Harry. Tom Cavanagh is half this show for me, and I'm happy to see him getting to have some fun with the alternate Wellses, but Harry's specific prickly chemistry with the team, and especially his dynamic with Cisco, is a pleasure for me to watch and I'm giving HR the side-eye.

I don't think Barry has been taken to task enough for resetting the timelines. I don't get the sense that he understands that when he changes things, he changes them for the entire world, not just his own damn self. For a superhero, he's weirdly selfish.

I like Wally and Jesse together. It seems like he will eventually seek out or be sought out by Alchemy; I hope he doesn't go looking for him. Wally seems brighter than that.

Edited October 26, 2016 by maxineofarc

[Beamish]

I wanted to like this episode. I really did. Mirror Master is of my favorite comic villains, so I was waiting to be happily impressed.

I hated almost every moment of it.

Scudder was so boring and lackluster - not memorable at all. He's just a good looking dude in a suit. In a show where most villains chew the scenery, his underplaying the character really made him vapid and uninteresting. If he were in a team up with the rest of the Rogues, he would be instantly forgotten. His boring personality instantly dwarfed by the other Rogues. The way they displayed his power was pretty lackluster as well. So much wasted potential.

Dillon was a fourth rate Harley Quinn, skipping around like an idiot. I didn't mind altering The Top's actual power, although if she still had the spinning power, that would have been an interesting to see how Barry and Jesse took her out. Once again, limited personality. The only thing I liked about her was her green and yellow skirt, a direct homage to the original Top.

The Mirror World/Barry trapped inside the mirror: Wow. So boring. Wasted opportunity to see what's on the other side of a mirror. Barry seemed more irritated than actually worried about being trapped. The talking backwards part was really clever. Too bad the rest of the mirror world wasn't.

Barry and Iris: cringe worthy. Iris especially. 'You don't want to kiss me? In front of my father? How dare you!" Keep making everything about you, Iris. That's your superpower.

Jesse and Wally: Don't care. At all. Wally really brings this show down.

Favorite part of the show was the continuing intro of Killer Frost. Close second: Barry and Joe talking about the kissing. So awkward, but charming at the same time.

Worst moment of the episode: "Hey new Harrison Wells, this is Barry Allen, the Flash". Yep, total stranger, but let's tell him the most damaging secret we have. Good call, Team Idiots.

[Primetimer]

Someone's getting replaced with a more hipster-y model.

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[Lady Calypso]

27 minutes ago, kirinan said:

And please, don't take Harry away and leave us with Hipster Harry. I just didn't like him at all. I think they mean for us not to trust him, which probably means he's a big red herring, but I prefer irascible Earth 2 Harry, thank you very much.

This 100%. I honestly can't imagine Hipster Harry sticking around all season. I feel like he's a short term character, rather than a long term one. At least that's what I'm hoping. Hipster Harry feels like he'll be too much of a comic relief character, or they'll make him evil. Either way, I found myself liking E2 Harry a lot, and I really like Jesse. Even though they can pop back and forth whenever, I'd rather have them on E1 permanently. It's why I'm hoping Violett Beane can be upgraded sometime this season or next. And I didn't like Jesse much last season, but I enjoy her a lot this season. 

Also, Wally's clearly getting his superpowers soon, probably by midseason. Him being fine with being sped around by Jesse is just another hint that he's already being contacted by Dr. Alchemy. I honestly would be happy if he didn't, especially if Jesse comes back. It's a nice change to have the female metahuman and the male human.

[twoods]

48 minutes ago, kirinan said:

 

Bad things: The handling of Snart--I was at least hoping for a tag at the end where he'd show up. Speaking of which, I just don't care about Killer Frost, although I can't help it, I like Caitlin. 

That's sort of hard to do since his character got blasted and supposedly died last season on Legends. I've always hoped he was stuck in time but it seems he's going to come back as flashbacks this season on different shows. So sad.

[kirinan]

14 minutes ago, twoods said:

That's sort of hard to do since his character got blasted and supposedly died last season on Legends. I've always hoped he was stuck in time but it seems he's going to come back as flashbacks this season on different shows. So sad.

I guess I was hoping for just a hint that he wasn't killed, and that there was an alternate timeline version of him floating around after that explosion, or SOMETHING that wouldn't just keep him relegated to flashbacks, which, sorry, are a waste of Wentworth, if you ask me. They made such a big thing out of him still being in the Berlanti-verse even though he was off regular Legends status that I dared to hope maybe we'd get a little more. Silly me, I guess. 

[cambridgeguy]

Quote

So the pretty DA hit on Joe, Jessie kissed Wally and of course Barry and Iris are kissing all over the place. The romantic prospects of the entire West family were looking good this ep.  Now if Joe would just catch what pretty DA is throwing.

The ladies were the ones taking the lead too.  An outsider's perspective on Barry/Iris would be kind of funny (your de facto son and daughter are hooking up?) so I hope the DA comes back.  Although I do wonder what she would say regarding the legality of what Barry and friends do.

Aside from his The Fast and the Furious buddies does Wally have any social circle outside of the core cast?  His life appears to involve going to school and hanging out at STAR labs.  Of course that does seem to be about what Caitlin and Cisco have 95% of the time so for all of the talk about Iris being marginalized at least she does get the occasional semi-independent plot.

Snart may have originated on this show but since he was a core character on Legends I think any potential return will happen there.

[maxineofarc]

40 minutes ago, twoods said:

That's sort of hard to do since his character got blasted and supposedly died last season on Legends. I've always hoped he was stuck in time but it seems he's going to come back as flashbacks this season on different shows. So sad.

Oh. Oops. Well now I'm DEFINITELY not going to start watching it for him.

[ElleMo]

13 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

On the plus side, communicating with other Earths is now apparently a piece of cake.  Presumably they'll figure out a way to get Supergirl to crossover when the time comes.

2

Yeah, so remind me again, why was it so important to close the portals?

[Grace19]

Great episode, I think the best this season for me.

I love character interactions, the flash characters all feel like family to me, so I Love it when they focus on the characters.

I'm going to miss Harry and Jessi, but I am curious about new Wells.

I am interested to see what direction they will take Caitlin, will she become a villain?

Jessi/Wally were cute.

Barry with the super-speed to pretend like he wasn't kissing Iris and His awkwardness with Joe was hilarious.

More than anything I like that the writers are letting Barry/Iris talk about their issues, that how adults deal with problems. I just hope they don't screw them up by manufacturing drama for them, that's the fastest way to get people fed up with a pairing. Just let them have a loving matured relationship.

Joe was not against Barry and Iris kissing, he just felt weired watching it, thats normal for an over protective parent like Joe, fact is, most fathers would be uncomfortable with it.

Its okay for the show to address the new dynamic between the three, it would be more weired if they just act like nothing has changed. I think they will now move on from it, especially as Barry is getting his own place.

I love that Joe might be getting some this season with the D.A., about time.

Mirror master and top were okay.

I thought we would get Captain Cold this episode, uncool show.

Great episode.

[KirkB]

50 minutes ago, ElleMo said:

Yeah, so remind me again, why was it so important to close the portals?

Zoom. Putting aside the later and sudden revelation he could open them himself, they wanted to close the portals to limit his access to their world. With him gone it's not as big of a deal, since obviously there are NO evil people on any other worlds.  :)

[sking24450]

I liked the episode it was light hearted and fun to me.

I admit to never have viewed Iris/Barry as siblings, they never viewed each other that way so I never had a problem with the relationship.  I get that Joe is a father figure to Barry and Iris' father but considering the age and circumstances of when Barry moved in I just never saw it as more than best friends who grew up together.  So I thought their scenes were cute tonight.  I didn't think Iris had a problem with not making out in front of Joe because she never did that with Eddie, but Barry was just super extra with the whole thing.  He didn't just stop kissing her, he just changed their drinks, he sped in a chess board, he grabbed a pillow; like just stop kissing each other, and then the next time when he couldn't even put his arm around her,  I would have put a stop to that mess too if I was Iris.

Then the ending scene with them and Joe was great to me.  They were just all chilling and it all felt fun and easy.

Caitlin should just tell them about her powers, we just went through this with Cisco and she knows that no one looked at Cisco differently.  I understand the dynamic is slightly different because they had experiences with her doppleganger who did have the same power.  I think they would help her but I do understand her fear in revealing her power.  I would also like to say that DP hasn't really gotten on my nerves this season, I don't know if it's been because she has played more light hearted things but I actually like the character right now.

I don't really understand the need for dragging in another Harrison from a storyline standpoint.  I understand that they are obsessed with Tom C and he is a great actor but the team functioned with Harrison in the past and it would probably open up more time for other characters to have time placed on their story.  I will probably like the way Tom C plays HR but I still don't think he is necessary.

I'm happy Jessie Quick is gone, I liked Barry in the role of mentor but at times the lab seems too full and that includes Iris.  I feel like they can have her part of the team without her just being at the lab.  I understand that is easier for them to write but how I wish she and Linda were doing their own thing on the side from time to time.  Like investigating a suspicious activity that is kept in the background while the show drops clues on how it connects to the larger Star Labs plot while also having her involved slightly in the cases, but that seems like a wish at this point.

Overall, I really liked the episode and the vibe.  I hope they can keep it up, the doom and gloom doesn't work for this show.

[KirkB]

42 minutes ago, sking24450 said:

I don't really understand the need for dragging in another Harrison from a storyline standpoint.  I understand that they are obsessed with Tom C and he is a great actor but the team functioned with Harrison in the past and it would probably open up more time for other characters to have time placed on their story.  I will probably like the way Tom C plays HR but I still don't think he is necessary.

Yes, that whole thing seems odd to me. That want to keep TC around, I get that. Why not just use Harry then? He and Jesse can stay on Earth 1. Or if TC really wants to be a different Harrison Wells, instead of shopping around the multiverse for a new one (which is just stupid on so many levels) why not introduce the original Harrison Wells from their Earth? Flashpoint could have made that happen.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I know they are different shows, and although Miller's Snart grew on me, I much prefer the Captain Cold and Mirror Master from JLU. They were hilarious ? and menacing at the same time. "Flash and Substance" remains one of my favorite episodes. Then again, that's Wally, not Barry. But the mirror "universe" was awesome in that.

This show's Mirror Master? BORRRRRING.

This wasn't the first time we've seen Cecile.  She was around a couple of times in Season One-as a non-believer of the Meta Humans.

Also Barry only moved back home with Joe because Iris had moved out to live with Eddie, so Joe wouldn't feel lonely. So I'm glad he's moving out again. But of course Show is acting as if he had never moved out. And unless they're saying that Iris and Eddie never dated, Flashpoint is something I won't accept because they haven't said Eddie didn't exist or that he and Iris weren't together.

I have nothing else to say about the stupidity of Caitlin NOT telling the others about her powers.

I hate Hipster Harry.

[Lady Calypso]

35 minutes ago, KirkB said:

Yes, that whole thing seems odd to me. That want to keep TC around, I get that. Why not just use Harry then? He and Jesse can stay on Earth 1. Or if TC really wants to be a different Harrison Wells, instead of shopping around the multiverse for a new one (which is just stupid on so many levels) why not introduce the original Harrison Wells from their Earth? Flashpoint could have made that happen.

And theoretically, there should have been a new E1 Harrison Wells. We don't know for sure if Eobard went back fifteen years or not, but since the last time we technically saw him was when he dropped off Barry in 2016, I assume he didn't go back to the time after he killed Barry's mother, and I assume he would still have his powers since he was able to time travel, so E1 Harry should have technically been alive and not killed by Eobard. But I know, I know, then season 1 wouldn't have worked the way that it did. Time Travel is just very confusing, but they could have found a way to make it work. 

Basically, nobody can write time travel well; in order to do that, they probably would have had to create a whole history and rules on time travel before the show, just to keep it all in check. They really should have the script supervisor also do a continuity aspect specific to the time traveling done. 

[KirkB]

It's worse than that. Eddie killing himself at the end of season 1 was supposed to have wiped Eobard Thawne from the timeline. That should have retroactively altered the timeline they are in so Momma Allen and the Wells weren't killed in the first place. Which means that point in time shouldn't have existed for Barry to run back to at the end of season 2. Of course that also means Barry wouldn't be The Flash yet because that doesn't happen until later. So it turns out Eddie killing himself only wiped Thawne from that one particular moment in time. Apparently. Damn it now my head hurts.

Edited October 26, 2016 by KirkB

[marcee]

Lots of people feel uncomfortable showing sexual affection in front of their parents. I'm not sure I understand why Iris felt it was so important for them to be so "open" about it. Joe understands, sure. Yes, they're together. But Joe practically raised Barry and Iris is still his daughter. Making out in front of your dad is never fun whether you're a teenager, 20-something or an adult. Ew.

Seems out of character for Caitlyn to be hiding this from her friends - she's usually the voice of reason, preaching honestly and suggesting the object of hurt/secrecy turn to their friends for help and support. So unless something else happened in this version of the timeline to make her feel this way, I really don't understand why she feels the need to keep this a secret other than bad writing. It just seems dumb.

[legaleagle53]

3 minutes ago, marcee said:

Lots of people feel uncomfortable showing sexual affection in front of their parents. I'm not sure I understand why Iris felt it was so important for them to be so "open" about it. Joe understands, sure. Yes, they're together. But Joe practically raised Barry and Iris is still his daughter. Making out in front of your dad is never fun whether you're a teenager, 20-something or an adult. Ew.

No kidding.  Just ask many a married couple how comfortable they are with PDAs -- or, God forbid, having sex -- whenever they go to visit one or the other's parents, especially when they know that said parents are just in another room of the house?  Ew, indeed!

[maxineofarc]

12 minutes ago, marcee said:

Seems out of character for Caitlyn to be hiding this from her friends - she's usually the voice of reason, preaching honestly and suggesting the object of hurt/secrecy turn to their friends for help and support. So unless something else happened in this version of the timeline to make her feel this way, I really don't understand why she feels the need to keep this a secret other than bad writing. It just seems dumb.

Especially Cisco, whom we've seen depicted as a close friend in earlier episodes. She knows he's a meta, and even if she knows he'll advise her to tell the team, it seems uncharacteristic that she wouldn't trust him with her emerging powers. Team Flash values and uses Cisco's and Barry's powers, why not hers? Unless Flashpoint changed things further back that we don't know about... in which case we're liable to keep getting "uh, this is different now because Flashpoint." I think the writers put in Dante's death to dial Cisco back a little this season, but that could easily have been "destined" to happen over the months Barry spent with his parents in Flashpoint anyway, and who knows what else is different. Superhero time travel hurts my head.

[BkWurm1]

Quote

 

I'm really going to miss Harry. Tom Cavanagh is half this show for me, and I'm happy to see him getting to have some fun with the alternate Wellses, but Harry's specific prickly chemistry with the team, and especially his dynamic with Cisco, is a pleasure for me to watch and I'm giving HR the side-eye.

 

I'm not too worried about Hipster Harry.  I remember how worried people were about losing the season 1 Harrison Wells and that dynamic but Cavanagh recreated the character and now we are worrying about loosing Harry.  Unless they deliberately write HR bad, I trust we're going to come to love him as well. Plus, I don't think we'd get to keep TC without allowing for the character to be changed up.  I remember when they were first trying to hire him, TC said he wasn't interested in playing just a regular character.  Secret evil speedster, sure.  So maybe to keep him around they dangled the lure to let him recreate a brand new character each year.  I'd have to think a lot of actors would love that kind of nuanced challenge. 

 

2 hours ago, maxineofarc said:

Especially Cisco, whom we've seen depicted as a close friend in earlier episodes. She knows he's a meta, and even if she knows he'll advise her to tell the team, it seems uncharacteristic that she wouldn't trust him with her emerging powers. Team Flash values and uses Cisco's and Barry's powers, why not hers? Unless Flashpoint changed things further back that we don't know about... in which case we're liable to keep getting "uh, this is different now because Flashpoint." I think the writers put in Dante's death to dial Cisco back a little this season, but that could easily have been "destined" to happen over the months Barry spent with his parents in Flashpoint anyway, and who knows what else is different. Superhero time travel hurts my head.

Actually Cisco is one I'm not surprised she'd keep her power hidden from.  After he met Killer Frost, he was freaked out that if Caitlin even knew she had an evil double that Caitlin would go evil.  He'd also met his evil twin and yet he and Harry were only worried that Caitlin would go evil.  Made no freaking sense, but they already set Caitlin up with a very good reason to keep them in the dark. 

But why she wouldn't tell Barry is beyond me...unless she just assumes he'd blab to the ones she was afraid would start treating her differently.  I guess that's a pretty valid worry. 

[Argenta]

I absolutely loved this episode. It had a strong sense of fun and camaraderie about it. OK, I found the two villains a bit lacklustre, but I don't think it mattered that much. 

Great things:

• Cisco/Harry squabbling. Those two purposefully getting on each other's nerves will never not be funny. 
• Multiverse Wells auditions. Really funny. 
• Captain Cold returning, even if briefly. 
• Caitlin's developing powers
• Barry and Joe being all silly and awkward about things while Iris handled it like an adult.

A thoroughly entertaining hour of television if you ask me. 

I'm very fond of Harry, especially since he got over his early outright unpleasantness and settled into the team. I'll really miss him and his dynamic with Cisco in particular, so I hope we haven't seen the last of him and Jesse.

That said, I also really like the new 'HR' - it was interesting and nice to see such an open and overtly friendly version of Harrison. I loved his wind-up 'scary' voice and his cheery hand-clasping. I don't think he'll turn out to be a villain or have some deep dark secret, personally; I reckon that what we see is what we'll get with this one. The only reservation I have is that he's so nice there doesn't seem much potential for amusing verbal sniping. 

But hey, a Wells you feel like you could spontaneously hug without imperilling your life? I can get on board with that. 

Quote

I'm not too worried about Hipster Harry.  I remember how worried people were about losing the season 1 Harrison Wells and that dynamic but Cavanagh recreated the character and now we are worrying about loosing Harry.  Unless they deliberately write HR bad, I trust we're going to come to love him as well. 

Seconded!

Edited October 26, 2016 by Argenta

[ruby24]

I really liked this episode too! I don't know, I've really liked the season so far, I think it's miles better than the start of Season 2.

I like the idea of HR joining the team as a new Wells.

Barry and Joe were so funny in that awkward conversation, especially when Barry mumbles "I love you too," lmao. I love how the only reason he's really moving out is so that he and Iris can get it on, lol. Since they're probably going to bring in a new permanent set for Barry's place, I bet that he and Iris will move in together sooner rather than later, especially since they refuse to show us where Iris lives- I thought she lived at home with them last season, but she must have had her own place in this new timeline if she and Joe hadn't been speaking for months, right?

[sking24450]

4 hours ago, marcee said:

Lots of people feel uncomfortable showing sexual affection in front of their parents. I'm not sure I understand why Iris felt it was so important for them to be so "open" about it. Joe understands, sure. Yes, they're together. But Joe practically raised Barry and Iris is still his daughter. Making out in front of your dad is never fun whether you're a teenager, 20-something or an adult. Ew.

Seems out of character for Caitlyn to be hiding this from her friends - she's usually the voice of reason, preaching honestly and suggesting the object of hurt/secrecy turn to their friends for help and support. So unless something else happened in this version of the timeline to make her feel this way, I really don't understand why she feels the need to keep this a secret other than bad writing. It just seems dumb.

I don't think she wants to make out in front of Joe but the reactions by Barry and to some extent Joe were a tad over the top.  In reaction to almost being caught kissing Barry sped away, changed their drinks, tried to blow out candles, and produced a chess board to pretend like they were just hanging out.  Then Joe and Barry were acting messy over Barry just having his arm around Iris.  I don't think she is blind to how it can be awkward but I'm not sure the solution to that is to pretend like they're not intimate at all.  I think the end scene was a happy medium, just casual peck and then hanging out. 

[zannej]

I liked the episode. I did question the idea of them just sending out "help wanted" ads to other worlds and hoping they would find a good Harrison Wells. Even if it was Eobard on their earth who was the bad guy, there is nothing to stop another Earth's Harrison from being a bad guy. The different Harrisons were pretty amusing though.

I didn't like the awkwardness with Joe, Barry, and Iris. And WTF, Barry specifically talked to Joe who told him he felt awkward seeing or thinking about Barry kissing Iris, but then when Iris confronted them both, Joe suddenly said he told Barry he was fine with it? Why didn't Barry say "Uh, you said it was awkward!" It wasn't just Barry being nervous-- Joe was acting weird about it.

So the solution is for Barry to get his own apartment? Uh, Doesn't Iris have her own place? She hadn't gone to the house for a long time, so where is she staying? Why can't they just go to her place?

I did find it funny how Harry was all "No touching!" when he saw Jesse take Wally's hand.

Top just sounds like a stupid name for a villain. I wasn't really impressed with the actors for Top and Mirror Master. The visual of going through the mirrors was fun. I found it particularly amusing because Tom C was in some movies where his character could travel through mirrors (the movies Snow and Snow 2).

I got interrupted and can't remember what else I was going to say.

[Argenta]

9 hours ago, Beamish said:

Worst moment of the episode: "Hey new Harrison Wells, this is Barry Allen, the Flash". Yep, total stranger, but let's tell him the most damaging secret we have. Good call, Team Idiots.

To be fair, though...they brought him in specifically to work in S.T.A.R. Labs as a member of Team Flash. There is no way he could do that without knowing who Barry is, so they might as well take the plunge and bring him in on the secret. I suppose if he turned out to be a menace they could hurl his smiley be-hatted ass back to his own Earth, but I think he's a straight shooter. 

[Maverick]

6 hours ago, KirkB said:

Yes, that whole thing seems odd to me. That want to keep TC around, I get that. Why not just use Harry then? He and Jesse can stay on Earth 1. Or if TC really wants to be a different Harrison Wells, instead of shopping around the multiverse for a new one (which is just stupid on so many levels) why not introduce the original Harrison Wells from their Earth? Flashpoint could have made that happen.

 I believe TC has said he's not interested in playing 'real' Wells thinking it would be too boring a character.

5 hours ago, KirkB said:

It's worse than that. Eddie killing himself at the end of season 1 was supposed to have wiped Eobard Thawne from the timeline. That should have retroactively altered the timeline they are in so Momma Allen and the Wells weren't killed in the first place. Which means that point in time shouldn't have existed for Barry to run back to at the end of season 2. Of course that also means Barry wouldn't be The Flash yet because that doesn't happen until later. So it turns out Eddie killing himself only wiped Thawne from that one particular moment in time. Apparently. Damn it now my head hurts.

 AT the time, they seemed to e taking the position in time only rippled forward, not back.   So Eddie killing himself in the present caused any trace of Eobard to be erased from that point forward.  But any point in time where Eobard prior to that, he still existed.  Of course the whole time remnant nonsense negated that idea, which isn't surprisingly since they clearly have no internal logic for time travel works and wouldn't follow it if they did.

[GHScorpiosRule]

One thing I hate is how it's the particle thingamajig (blanking on the second word) is responsible for ALL Meta Humans, heroes and villains alike. Since the show has done time travel (albeit horribly), there's no reason why they couldn't get their powers from the source material of their comic book characters.

[KirkB]

39 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

One thing I hate is how it's the particle thingamajig (blanking on the second word) is responsible for ALL Meta Humans, heroes and villains alike. Since the show has done time travel (albeit horribly), there's no reason why they couldn't get their powers from the source material of their comic book characters.

It's okay. That's what I'm here for.  :) Particle Accelerator. And it's not ALL metahumans. One guy who debuted on Arrow, I think his name was Deathbolt, was not in Central City when the PA exploded and it was never explained where his powers actually came from.

[GHScorpiosRule]

52 minutes ago, KirkB said:

It's okay. That's what I'm here for.  :) Particle Accelerator. And it's not ALL metahumans. One guy who debuted on Arrow, I think his name was Deathbolt, was not in Central City when the PA exploded and it was never explained where his powers actually came from.

Thanks @KirkB!

But it seems that everyone on this show came by their powers/abilities as a result of the Particle Accelerator. And even in the comics, there was no accelerator when Barry, Wally became the Flash.

I don't know why this is bugging me, but it 'tis!

[MarkHB]

I loved that the Top's outfit shouted out to the comics Top's green-and-yellow color scheme.

[tennisgurl]

This was a fun episode, it almost seemed to be hearkening back to the fun and likability of season 1. It had a lot of good going for it, with some faults there too. 

Sad that we are losing Harry and Jessie, and I am going to need a REALLY good reason that they cant stick around. I`m not a fan of Hipster Wells. I would have voted for Steampunk Wells. That could have been an interesting world to explore a bit. 

Barry is a big boy and moves out! I do like Iris and Barry, so I am really happy to see them actually moving on with their relationship. I swear, every time they kissed I expected the time line to start flopping around to make it so they never got to kiss. It was nice to see them having an actual issue and not some big drama festival that keeps them apart. 

WHY wont Caitlin tell the truth about her powers? Its not like her friends will dump her for being a meta human! Barry and Cisco already are meta humans! So what if Killer Frost was a villain who had powers? Cisco's evil counterpart had his powers too, and he never turned evil here. It just makes no sense. 

Great seeing Captain Cold, even if it was just in flashbacks. The Arrowverse needs him back real bad. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

WHY wont Caitlin tell the truth about her powers? Its not like her friends will dump her for being a meta human! Barry and Cisco already are meta humans! So what if Killer Frost was a villain who had powers? Cisco's evil counterpart had his powers too, and he never turned evil here. It just makes no sense. 

Plus, didn't Harry have a metahuman detector in his smartwatch in the original timeline ? Or is that another one of the minor differences in the timeline.

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Thanks @KirkB!

But it seems that everyone on this show came by their powers/abilities as a result of the Particle Accelerator. And even in the comics, there was no accelerator when Barry, Wally became the Flash.

I don't know why this is bugging me, but it 'tis!

It reminds me of how almost all the powered people on Smallville got it from green glowing "meteor rocks".  (Why they could never just call them meteorites I'll never know.) The Particle Accelerator is just the ubiquitous catchall on Flash.  The longer it's on air, the more comfortable I think the show will be in moving away from all metas being created by the accident.  

1 hour ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Plus, didn't Harry have a metahuman detector in his smartwatch in the original timeline ? Or is that another one of the minor differences in the timeline.

Should be the same since the Harry we had/have was exempt from the Flashpoint stuff (since he and Jesse had already gone home to their universe before Barry changed the timeline)

[slayer2]

Well they are just having so much fun on this show. What a joy to watch every week. Honestly, a blast. There's The Flash I know and love. Long live Flashpoint!

Edited October 27, 2016 by slayer2

[MarkHB]

7 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

WHY wont Caitlin tell the truth about her powers? Its not like her friends will dump her for being a meta human! Barry and Cisco already are meta humans! So what if Killer Frost was a villain who had powers? Cisco's evil counterpart had his powers too, and he never turned evil here. It just makes no sense. 

I think she's afraid she's going to turn evil.  And did anyone else notice that her lips were turning blue after the shower as well?

Spoiler

At least we won't have long to wait to get into her head, with her mother coming next week.  I'm looking forward to meeting her after hearing about her in the Caitlin-Frost episode.

(Spoiler for next week.)

[zannej]

7 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

Plus, didn't Harry have a metahuman detector in his smartwatch in the original timeline ? Or is that another one of the minor differences in the timeline.

I think Harry disabled the app because it was probably going off all the time around Jesse. He's got Cisco, Barry, and Jesse around him on Earth-1. If he left the app on, he'd be going crazy. Remember how it kept going off on Jesse when she was at the club? That would get annoying. Also, previously Harry had held the watch near Caitlin and no buzz-- so maybe it didn't occur to him that Barry's changes would have given her powers. Of course, on the flipside, maybe he thought about it but didn't want to say it in front of HR. I do wonder what he was going to say before he left. I sort of suspect it was "Don't mess with the timeline"

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Caitlin is supposed to be super smart, yet her reaction to growing a blonde streak of hair is to cut it off a good three inches away from her scalp, leaving a hunk of blonde hair visible. Ooookay then.

Loved seeing Snart again. He only had a few lines but his very short amount of screentime in this episode was still awesome.

Cisco and Harrison vetting the other Harrisons from different earths was hilarious too. Can't trust a mime!

Why would you name anyone Top? It made me think that her boyfriend's name should be Bottom.

17 hours ago, marcee said:

Lots of people feel uncomfortable showing sexual affection in front of their parents. I'm not sure I understand why Iris felt it was so important for them to be so "open" about it. Joe understands, sure. Yes, they're together. But Joe practically raised Barry and Iris is still his daughter. Making out in front of your dad is never fun whether you're a teenager, 20-something or an adult. Ew.

ITA - I'm married but I have no desire to make out in front of my parents or Mr. EB's family!

Edited October 27, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[maxineofarc]

5 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Why would you name anyone Top? It made me think that her boyfriend's name should be Bottom.

Because Marvel already had dibs on "Vertigo," with the same powers. I still want Top's outfit. Someone give me a lead on that adorable skirt.

[KirkB]

Yeah, but Top only works in the broadest sense. If you named someone the Top I would expect them to spin. Like, you know, a top. Causing vertigo does make the people feel like they're spinning, I suppose, but it's not really the same thing and is stretching it. All the characters I could find in DC called the Top either did spin or at least caused swirling, tornado like winds. Then again I suppose vertigo is kind of a difficult word to find a synonym for that works as a name.

Edited October 27, 2016 by KirkB

[BkWurm1]

3 hours ago, KirkB said:

Yeah, but Top only works in the broadest sense. If you named someone the Top I would expect them to spin. Like, you know, a top. Causing vertigo does make the people feel like they're spinning, I suppose, but it's not really the same thing and is stretching it. All the characters I could find in DC called the Top either did spin or at least caused swirling, tornado like winds. Then again I suppose vertigo is kind of a difficult word to find a synonym for that works as a name.

I kept thinking Topsy Turvy would have been a way better name. 

[maxineofarc]

50 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I kept thinking Topsy Turvy would have been a way better name. 

Yeah. You > Cisco this week. I know he was under pressure, but that was weak.

[GHScorpiosRule]

And this shows how stupid I am. When I read "Top," I thought she had that name because of the, you know, TOP she was wearing. Of course, I hadn't seen the episode yet. But it never occurred to me that it mean "spinning."

And DC has a Vertigo...though I can't recall if his name was Vertigo. I just remember him from B:TAS. So what gives, DC?

[sking24450]

I hated the name Top and I couldn't figure what it referred to when they first said it.  Also, not sure why they had Jessie say the name Top like I always viewed the nicknames as internal things amongst the group, it just seemed weird.

[ElleMo]

On 10/27/2016 at 3:35 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

And DC has a Vertigo...though I can't recall if his name was Vertigo. I just remember him from B:TAS. So what gives, DC?

 

I don't know about the character in the Comic Book universe,  but Arrow had  Count Vertigo AND Vertigo, who both sold the drug Vertigo.

http://arrow.wikia.com/wiki/Count_Vertigo

http://arrow.wikia.com/wiki/Werner_Zytle

Edited October 30, 2016 by ElleMo

[GHScorpiosRule]

20 minutes ago, ElleMo said:

I don't know about the character in the Comic Book universe,  but Arrow had both Count Vertigo and Vertigo, who both sold the drug Vertigo.

http://arrow.wikia.com/wiki/Count_Vertigo

http://arrow.wikia.com/wiki/Werner_Zytle

Yeah, the Vertigo from B:TAS was one of R'as's League of whatever...

[allyw]

I enjoyed this episode for the most part but a couple of things bugged me.

First, when Barry returned it was said that Iris was mad at Joe and I thought it was implied that she had her own place, so why didn't she and Barry hang out there?

Second, what is the obsession with Tom Cavanah? He seems very capable of doing his job but there is nothing outstanding about him for them to keep creating different versions of Wells so he can stay on the show.

Edited October 28, 2016 by allyw

[Maverick]

 Ward on Agents of SHIELD wasn't even compelling yet they kept twisting themselves into knots to bring him back.  

[legaleagle53]

2 hours ago, allyw said:

Second, what is the obsession with Tom Cavanaugh? He seems very capable of doing his job but there is nothing outstanding about him for them to keep creating different versions of Wells so he can stay on show.

He's a good actor, and Wells is a very popular character on this show.  It's actually fun to see Tom re-invent the character every so often.  He's clearly having a ball doing it and is enjoying the challenge as well.

[maxineofarc]

11 hours ago, allyw said:

Second, what is the obsession with Tom Cavanah? He seems very capable of doing his job but there is nothing outstanding about him for them to keep creating different versions of Wells so he can stay on the show.

I think he's the best actor on the show. I was solidly in the Cavanagh camp after season 1; there was a lot of good, subtle acting in his Reverse-Flash that made the character work perfectly for me, and I've really enjoyed his different versions of Wells. I like the team, but I think the show would lose a lot for me without him.

Edited October 28, 2016 by maxineofarc
because I like the word "really" way too much