S07.E05: Own Your Shit

[ElectricBoogaloo]

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Frank discovers that a philanthropist has purchased the shelter; Fiona gets financial advice from a Tinder hookup; Ian struggles with his feelings for Trevor.

Promo:

 

Clips:

 

[sazzat]

That was a kind of amiable episode. I'm having some tone issues, though: I feel like the things they're setting up to eventually be dramatic (Fiona as ruthless businesswoman, Fiona and Vee's friendship breaking down, Ian sorting out a new relationship, a threat to Deb's parenting) aren't grounded enough to set up an emotional payoff, and the things that are here for the humor (Frank manipulating the homeless, the KVS triangle) are just not that funny.

Both Kev Vee Svet things bugged the hell out of  me: the adoption idea (Kev and Mickey would have to sign away parental rights for an adoption to be processed. The tax benefit would be negligible; it's a one time credit to cover your legal fees and expenses, so you're basically reimbursing money you lay out, not getting a bonus. Stepchildren who live with you that you support can be dependents regardless of adoption), and the vaccine thing (egregiously unfunny).

[queenbee9b]

The vaccine thing was weird- especially Kermit  being the voice of reason.  I keep watch the threesome waiting for the other shoe to drop, I kept hoping V and K would get distracted and not sign.  

I was shocked about Deb and CPS at the end - was not expecting that at all! 

[BunnyBlueBrown]

I can't believe Kevin and V signed those documents!! 

Ian's new storyline < 

[sazzat]

11 minutes ago, queenbee9b said:

I was shocked about Deb and CPS at the end - was not expecting that at all! 

Me either, especially considering what we've seen on this show that CPS has had no interest in (grumble).

The vaccine subplot just seemed so unnecessary because all it did was make the throuple seem paranoid and stupid. The adoption subplot is also stupid but makes me wonder if they're setting it up for some kind of swindle from Svetlana? Surely there would be some way to go about that without having to wonder why Kevin in particular would give up his parental rights.

I like the Carl/cop dad relationship but also thought the DNA subplot was a little off. We've been asked to suspend disbelief that Liam is Frank's son since season one with supposed DNA confirmation. Is Carl now not Frank's child?  Also, thank you cop dad for pointing out that 25 spaces for students of color more or less meant that the other 75 would go to white students.

[Dee]

Ah, Shameless. Still ridiculously antiblack as ever.

The black characters being sexually objectified and/or positioned as strawmen authority figures to provide pleasure for and/or bully the misunderstood Gallaghers? Check.

The show's token latino recurring characters trotted out when the show's white characters are in dire need of sympathy and/or financial assistance? Check.

Native Americans don't even get screentime but their genocide is used to provide fodder for cheap jokes. Classy.

Carl's story is laying the groundwork for Liam to be de-Gallaghered to remove the "anchor" from the Gallagher's necks.

Ian and everything to do with his entire storyline (especially Trevor) are trash. Complete trash.

Of course the show holds Vee equally at fault for her and Fiona's relationship breaking down. Two weeks of Vee not being fully immersed in Fiona's World does not make their current situation, or their friendship in general, evenly yoked.

The writing for Debbie is severely lacking but Emma Kenney is doing everything in her considerable power to sell it.

Lip mooning over random Patsy's waitress he's slept with a couple times? Do Not Care.

Fiona trying to improve her life by acting like the world's biggest victim? Do Not Care.

Folk Hero Frank? Do Not Care.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Dee

[Dee]

.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Dee

[Emily Thrace]

2 hours ago, sazzat said:

Me either, especially considering what we've seen on this show that CPS has had no interest in (grumble).

The vaccine subplot just seemed so unnecessary because all it did was make the throuple seem paranoid and stupid. The adoption subplot is also stupid but makes me wonder if they're setting it up for some kind of swindle from Svetlana? Surely there would be some way to go about that without having to wonder why Kevin in particular would give up his parental rights.

I like the Carl/cop dad relationship but also thought the DNA subplot was a little off. We've been asked to suspend disbelief that Liam is Frank's son since season one with supposed DNA confirmation. Is Carl now not Frank's child?  Also, thank you cop dad for pointing out that 25 spaces for students of color more or less meant that the other 75 would go to white students.

Carl and Liam could still be both Franks kids. You only get %50 of you DNA from each parent. It could Liam got all of Franks African DNA and Carl got all Irish. The Native American DNA could be from Monica in fact that would actually go a long way to explaining Liam if both Monica and Frank have some POC in their background.

[CarolMK]

Speaking of Monica, I saw that she'll be back this season. So will Mickey. This should be interesting- wonder if there's any chance they can get Sheila back?

[whiporee]

Fiona makes no sense right now.  Vee and Fiona's continuing fight makes NO sense. 

But for the first time in a while, Debbie did. She's stubborn, and she's willing to do whatever she needs to prove Fiona wrong. I thought everything she did sort of made sense, and it's the first time in a long time I can say that. 

I hope Lip gets at least a little bit of a win before the roof caves in on him again. 

The Frank stuff ... I just don't know. And I don't know how Carl can have no AA in him at all, unless they're going to say Frank's not his father, either. I like Carl's storyline, but I don't understand where it's going unless it's to have him fuck something else up. 

It's pretty clear to me that Svet is going to isolate Kev from Vee, then go after the bar in her divorce. I don't know whose name the Alibi is under, but I'm rather certain that's how it plays out.  

[Dee]

If Svet wanted to isolate Vee from Kev, why include him so heavily in the adoption plans?

She could've made just as plausible a case about the necessity of adopting each other's kids to Vee, without his involvement.

The throuple set-up seems to be building toward Vee & Svet sticking together with Kevin hooking up with Fiona.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Dee

[ElectricBoogaloo]

ITA that Svet is up to no good with this adoption stuff. I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop. You know when it does, Vee will run straight to Fiona and they will make up so that they can take down Svetlana. In theory, I wouldn't be surprised if Svetlana had found a way to steal money from the bar, but knowing how many of their shithead customers like Frank never pay, I think it's a little premature for her to be doing that just yet. My guess is that when she started doing the books, she started hatching this plan. Maybe whatever she's doing with the books is intended to help her get the bar. I guess that's even better than owning her own Subway.

[whiporee]

5 hours ago, Dee said:

If Svet wanted to isolate Vee from Kev, why include him so heavily in the adoption plans?

She could've made just as plausible a case about the necessity of adopting each other's kids to Vee, without his involvement.

 

Maybe because adopting them takes away his legal connection to the babies? I don't know what purpose the whole thing made, unless it was to take away his legal rights to his kids. I don't know that he adopted Yvgeny -- it looked like it was just Dee doing it.

And while I'm picking nits, I didn'[t get Sharon Lawrence's character. She came down just to bust Fiona's balls? that doesn't make much sense, either.  

Edited October 31, 2016 by whiporee

[stagmania]

7 hours ago, CarolMK said:

Speaking of Monica, I saw that she'll be back this season. So will Mickey. This should be interesting- wonder if there's any chance they can get Sheila back?

Where did you hear Monica is coming back? If I were Joan Cusack, I would stay far away from this mess. Sheila is the only character that got a decent ending; I hope she doesn't come back to have it ruined.

[Tikichick]

Definitely feel like Svetlana is running the table.  My bet is "daddy" isn't & he has entered the picture just in time for he & Svetlana to cash in and leave with their spoils.

Hating Fiona.  She took guardianship of those kids & bought the house, now she thinks she can collect cash from the kids, have no responsibility for them & doesn't have even so much responsibility as to call a repairman for the washing machine?

[NaughtyKitty]

All that exposition about needing to own something to make money makes me think Fi might be buying a launderymat soon.....

[Empress1]

31 minutes ago, Tikichick said:

Definitely feel like Svetlana is running the table.  My bet is "daddy" isn't & he has entered the picture just in time for he & Svetlana to cash in and leave with their spoils.

Hating Fiona.  She took guardianship of those kids & bought the house, now she thinks she can collect cash from the kids, have no responsibility for them & doesn't have even so much responsibility as to call a repairman for the washing machine?

When she was like, "I'm not taking this house shit on," I was like " ... But it's your house though." And if she's treating it like a landlord situation and charging them rent (I'm not clear on that), then it's 100% her obligation to get shit fixed. Tenants don't deal with repairs. She's being ridiculous. I mean, yes, they should all pitch in, but a) they do and b) she's the one responsible for the house and the minors. She can better herself without abdicating her responsibilities. She has to, in fact. I had a boss who loved to talk about how she graduated from law school at 40 as a single mother of two sons. People better themselves without dropping their domestic responsibilities all the time. It's hard, but possible.

i knew CPS was coming for Debbie when her friend saw her begging. I was scared that Franny was going to fall out of the sling when she was fighting.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Empress1

[Gulftastic]

I enjoyed the episode, but hate the implication that begging is (a) a choice made easily and (b) lucrative and (c) not done by people other than those who are desperate.

I like Fiona's continued mission to sort her life out. Is that Sheldon Cooper's Meemaw running the launderette? I assume Fiona is going to attempt to buy out the lease.

I always like scenes between Carl and his ex's Dad. Those two work well.

[iMonrey]

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Me either, especially considering what we've seen on this show that CPS has had no interest in (grumble).

We've seen them show up and pull the kids out of the house if someone calls and makes a report about them. Otherwise they pretty much leave them alone. But since everyone around her was filming Debbie's fight with the homeless woman I can see where someone would call CPS. And frankly, Debbie should have her baby taken away from her. I wish she'd just come to her senses and realize she has no business raising a kid and give it up for adoption. The longer she waits the less likely that kid has any sort of hope of finding a decent home. People want to adopt babies, so Frannie would still be easily adoptable right now. A year from now, not so much.

I can see where the show is drawing a fine line between Fiona trying to better herself and not giving a shit about her family anymore. I'm not sure which way we're supposed to see it, but I still feel like it's about time she put herself first. She's done nothing but take care of her siblings her whole life and it's gotten her nowhere. It hasn't gotten them anywhere either.

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Carl and Liam could still be both Franks kids. You only get %50 of you DNA from each parent. It could Liam got all of Franks African DNA and Carl got all Irish. The Native American DNA could be from Monica in fact that would actually go a long way to explaining Liam if both Monica and Frank have some POC in their background.

Is that really how it works? The explanation for Liam was that Frank's grandmother had an affair with a black man, meaning Frank's father was really the son of some jazz singer and not Grandpa Gallagher. We know Liam is really Frank's because that's what the DNA test was for. Seems like Carl would have the same DNA profile as Liam assuming Frank is Carl's father too. 

I think the show simply chose to ignore the Season 1 "joke" in favor of a new "joke" where Carl is Native American and Dominique's father is Pilgrim just for the "laugh" about the role reversal.

Edited October 31, 2016 by iMonrey

[Dee]

36 minutes ago, Gulftastic said:

I always like scenes between Carl and his ex's Dad. Those two work well.

I hate those scenes.

It makes no sense that any member of the Winslow family, especially a cynical guy like Officer Winslow, would want anything to do with a degenerate like Carl after the last few weeks.

It also makes no sense to have Carl seek out Dom's Dad, of all people, for military school advice when Carl's brother (who is finally back in the house full time) would be an infinitely better option.

[Gulftastic]

Carl is seeking a Father figure. Ian isn't that. Also, he hadn't thought of military school until Officer Winslow suggested it. Ian didn't go there, he did ROTC in school. 

And I think Officer Winslow sees something in Carl worth nurturing. 

[Broderbits]

7 hours ago, whiporee said:

And while I'm picking nits, I didn'[t get Sharon Lawrence's character. She came down just to bust Fiona's balls? that doesn't make much sense, either. 

I think she sees a little of herself in Fiona, someone with the potential to make it despite her background. And to answer a previous question of why a billionaire businesswoman would even own this crappy diner: it was probably in a package of properties she acquired.

59 minutes ago, Gulftastic said:

And I think Officer Winslow sees something in Carl worth nurturing. 

Totally agree with this. Carl has been relentless in seeking his help, and he's smart enough to know no one in his family is capable of giving him good advice.

I'm a big fan of WHM, but Frank should die. Please.

[iMonrey]

The Frank nonsense is just the worst. Even if someone bought the house for the homeless, is the neighborhood even zoned for a shelter? And even if it is, isn't there some city law or ordinance about maximum capacity? It's not a very big house, it can't reasonably have more than maybe a dozen occupants. 

[Adeejay]

I am having a hard time with Debbie's begging and stealing storylines. Her school has a nursery/daycare, so I don't understand why she had to drop out.  Plus as an unwed teen, she is eligible for the Supplemental Nutrition Assistant Program and a few dollars from the State.  

If memory serves, after the girls were born, Vee and Kev switched places because she claimed not to have a maternal bone in her body.  So it's rather puzzling that now she is such a Mama Grizzly.  I can't help but wonder what happened that brought about the change. 

[Picture It. Sicily]

24 minutes ago, Adeejay said:

If memory serves, after the girls were born, Vee and Kev switched places because she claimed not to have a maternal bone in her body.  So it's rather puzzling that now she is such a Mama Grizzly.  I can't help but wonder what happened that brought about the change. 

Different writers?

[Dee]

19 hours ago, Gulftastic said:

Carl is seeking a Father figure. Ian isn't that. Also, he hadn't thought of military school until Officer Winslow suggested it. Ian didn't go there, he did ROTC in school. 

And I think Officer Winslow sees something in Carl worth nurturing. 

Officer Winslow is not obligated to be Carl's Father Figure, no matter how badly Carl might need or want one.

And Carl really isn't looking for a dad in the first place. For him the draw isn't the nurturing, it's the promise of power.

It makes no sense to have Officer Winslow arbitrarily act as babysitter for, and plot facilitator to, Carl because the writing demands it, especially given Carl violated the primary rule he issued about dating Dom. But this is a show that totally ruined Dominique to paint Carl as the eternal victim too, so...

Ian makes a ton of more sense to discuss armed service with Carl than some conveniently invented backstory for a throwaway tertiary character. But who needs character driven stories when there are pronouns to be learned and college fraternities to be raided, right?

Edited November 1, 2016 by Dee

[ElectricBoogaloo]

9 hours ago, Empress1 said:

 

i knew CPS was coming for Debbie when her friend saw her begging. I was scared that Franny was going to fall out of the sling when she was fighting.

Edited 9 hours ago by Empress1.

I thought that was Derek's sister so I initially thought she might guilt trip Derek or some of her family members into giving Debbie some money or that maybe she would offer to babysit Franny/Harry. But as soon as I saw the guy recording Debbie's fight on his phone, I knew that she would get in trouble (as she should). 

[sazzat]

I'm not sure where I'm going with this, but I was just  thinking about the contrast between Ian running off with Yevgeny vs. Debbie getting into a fight with Franny in her arms. In the first case, the baby-in-peril was played as an actual risk that worked on the audience's emotions. We knew something was terribly wrong with Ian; we knew he cared about the baby but was in no place to care for it; the risks he took made us think of all the possible tragic outcomes and the repercussions they could have. In the second, it was "ha ha, how low can Debbie sink." There would be serious risk to an infant, but in the scene itself, it's not evoked (too hard to film?) and the fight is played off as funny. It makes the arrival of CPS at the end seem arbitrary and undeserved, like we were supposed to think this was just bad luck for Debbie instead of a result of impulsivity and neglect. 

[FiveByFive]

5 hours ago, Dee said:

Officer Winslow is not obligated to be Carl's Father Figure, no matter how badly Carl might need or want one.

And Carl really isn't looking for a dad in the first place. For him the draw isn't the nurturing, it's the promise of power.

It makes no sense to have Officer Winslow to arbitrarily act as babysitter for, and plot facilitator to, Carl because the writing demands it, especially given Carl violated the primary rule he issued about dating Dom. But this is a show that totally ruined Dominique to paint Carl as the eternal victim too, so...

Ian makes a ton of more sense to discuss armed service with Carl than some conveniently invented backstory for a throwaway tertiary character. But who needs character driven stories when there are pronouns to be learned and college fraternities to be raided, right?

I don't think it's all that complicated. 

Officer Winslow likes that Carl wants to be like him. He also seems to have recognized that when he was dating Dominique he went out of his way to please him. He also knows that Carl doesn't come from the best family. Now that Carl isn't dating Dominique he's still listening to what Winslow has to say.

Officer Winslow is Carl's mentor. Why can't it be both nurturing and the promise of power? (Although I think here school will help Carl focus and get him away from his family. I think Officer Winslow knows that.)

I don't think it's that much different than Lip and his Professor only Carl seems to respect Officer Winslow enough to not be "typical" Carl around him. The same goes with Fiona and the woman that owns her diner. They're learning how to "be" and what direction they should "grow" in by using people outside of their family as examples. I'm not sure they've ever done that before. 

What Officer Winslow is doing is pointing Carl in the direction of something that will help him better himself and since he sees Carl is actually trying to he's helping him. 

Ian has his own problems, a job that doesn't fall in line with what Carl wants to do and isn't an adult with a long career. His ROTC/Military experience was short lived. Officer Winslow is an active, living, example of what Carl wants.

11 hours ago, Gulftastic said:

I enjoyed the episode, but hate the implication that begging is (a) a choice made easily and (b) lucrative and (c) not done by people other than those who are desperate.

I like Fiona's continued mission to sort her life out. Is that Sheldon Cooper's Meemaw running the launderette? I assume Fiona is going to attempt to buy out the lease.

I always like scenes between Carl and his ex's Dad. Those two work well.

I agree, Fiona is aiming to put her business hat back on and I hope this time it succeeds. She's always been good at running a business. I'm hoping that this show will break the cycle this season and she'll be able to acquire the lease and keep it up. At least then I'll feel like these characters have grown.

However, her "I need rent money" from the kids who are under 18 originally bugged me. Then I had to remind myself that even though she's responsible for them legally she is actually just their sister. The problem is that she's gone way overboard in some aspects. 

11 hours ago, iMonrey said:

We know Liam is really Frank's because that's what the DNA test was for. Seems like Carl would have the same DNA profile as Liam assuming Frank is Carl's father too. 

It's like taking a jar full of 100 red and blue jelly beans

and a jar full of 100 green and orange jelly beans

then randomly picking out about 50 from each and putting them into one jar representing one kid and then counting the colors. Then doing it again from scratch for a "sibling."

Sure some of what you have in each jar will be the same but it's very possible that the counts will be vastly different.  Liam may have some red, orange, green and blue jelly beans. Carl may not have any orange jelly beans at all or not enough to make a difference on an ancestry test however they're still siblings because they came from the same jars. 

In short, yes, DNA results between siblings will usually have some similarities but they can also be vastly different. 

[dangwoodchucks]

Carl has never followed any rules in his life, nor had respect for authority, I'm sure he and military school will get along just fine. :/

So now they're going to exploit a brain-damaged guy. I can see Frank jumping in on that too when he finds out the guy has money. If Debbie moves in with the guy and Carl goes to military school, Fiona will only have Ian and Lip to give her money. Maybe Lip will make enough money stealing from his employer to be able to buy the house from Fiona, then she'd have to pay him rent.

Fiona is one nasty bitch. She goes straight from screwing a stranger all over her room to getting dressed to go to work. Does she ever clean herself, much less wipe down the dresser where they were fucking? If Fiona enjoys random sex with strangers so much she ought to become a prostitute and at least make some money while she's doing it. Svetlana did tell her, "you were born with ATM between your legs". Then she'd have money to start her future empire. Expecting a cut from the diner because you did your job was beyond arrogant. I can see getting a bonus for improving things, but not a cut of the business.

I feel like smacking Frank every time I see him on screen, Ian's storyline is boring and I don't know WTH they're doing with Kev/V/Svetlana.

[Dee]

2 hours ago, dangwoodchucks said:

Fiona is one nasty bitch. She goes straight from screwing a stranger all over her room to getting dressed to go to work. Does she ever clean herself, much less wipe down the dresser where they were fucking?

She doesn't even wipe in the opening credits!

[iMonrey]

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In the second, it was "ha ha, how low can Debbie sink." There would be serious risk to an infant, but in the scene itself, it's not evoked (too hard to film?) and the fight is played off as funny. It makes the arrival of CPS at the end seem arbitrary and undeserved, like we were supposed to think this was just bad luck for Debbie instead of a result of impulsivity and neglect. 

I know what you mean, and mostly for me it's because there's so obviously a doll wrapped up in that blanket and not a real baby so I don't get any kind of emotional impact when she's out and about with that "thing." However, I do feel sorry for that kid. Which, in turn, just makes me angry with Debbie all over again. If I'm supposed to feel sorry for Debbie, and supposed to be worried she's going to lose her baby, then the show has utterly failed. I am actively rooting for CPS to take that kid away from her.

It reminds me of when that gay couple fostered Liam and Carl. We were apparently supposed to be rooting for them to go back to living with Fiona in the slums, but all I could think of was how much better off they were with the gay couple. By the same token, should Debbie lose custody of her baby, someone is probably going to snatch it right up and try to adopt it. Healthy white baby? Premium.

[ralph]

- is Fiona really supposed to have become such a shit person that she won't even make a phone call to have the washer fixed?

- despite all the theories, I don't think what Svet said last episode means she doesn't care about V and Kev. You can care about a spouse or significant other and still realize and appreciate any financial gains they afford you.

3 hours ago, Dee said:

She doesn't even wipe in the opening credits!

I can't help but think Fiona's no cleaner than Frank or his homeless. I really notice it when there's a scene with her and V. V always looks so clean and well put together. I get they're supposed to be poor, but really only Fiona, Lip, and sometimes Debbie and Carl look unkempt.

[NorthstarATL]

So this is why they got rid of Caleb? Probably the MAIN part of being gay is that you are attracted to your own gender. It is not, especially for males, a choice as to which gender your body responds to. So you can force me to call you whatever gender you wish, but you cannot force my anatomy to "see" you as a gender that you are not. We spent so long fighting for the right to BE gay that I am really offended that being gay is somehow now discriminatory.

  I can't even with the Fiona stuff at home and/or with Vee, because they make no sense, but I can see her investing (or getting the Sharon Lawrence character to invest) in the laundromat. I used to go to a diner/laundromat that were right next to each other, and owned by the same people. Saturday afternoons we would put our clothes in the washers, go order hangover food and eat and have coffee all through the wash/dry cycles. Good times. The fact is also that Fiona might be angry that she only got $25 extra per week, but that's a foot-in-the-door. If she doesn't blow it the owner is acknowledging her worth and will likely step up the raises if this turn-around isn't just a fluke.

[howiveaddict]

Glad I record this show on the DVR. That way I can fast forward to the Frank crap.

[WearyTraveler]

Wasn't Vee a nurse? I was surprised she was so clueless about vaccination.

[iMonrey]

She wasn't a nurse. She worked in a nursing home - big difference. And not one of the good ones. They "stole" one of the patients there and pretended she was Aunt Ginger. At best, Vee was an orderly. She apparently doesn't work there anymore.

[Marley]

This show is so fucking stupid now. I'm not sure why I watch.

Fiona is a bitch. If she wants them to chip in fine but that doesn't mean she doesn't have to do anything anymore. It's her house so it is pretty much her responsibility to fix the washer. Or atleast help? So rude.

I have no comment for Ian and Trevor. Well actually my comment is I'm sick of everyone always being so obsessed with the Gallagher after they lay eyes on them. 

I hope Debby loses her baby. She's so dumb. Why doesn't she go on welfare or something since she's done with school for some reason.

Also Fiona threatening to kick her out and rent her room? Who would want to live with those douche bags.

[dangwoodchucks]

9 hours ago, Marley said:

This show is so fucking stupid now. I'm not sure why I watch.

Fiona is a bitch. If she wants them to chip in fine but that doesn't mean she doesn't have to do anything anymore. It's her house so it is pretty much her responsibility to fix the washer. Or atleast help? So rude.

I have no comment for Ian and Trevor. Well actually my comment is I'm sick of everyone always being so obsessed with the Gallagher after they lay eyes on them. 

I hope Debby loses her baby. She's so dumb. Why doesn't she go on welfare or something since she's done with school for some reason.

Also Fiona threatening to kick her out and rent her room? Who would want to live with those douche bags.

If Fiona is their "landlord" and accepting money from them to live there, she should be responsible for providing working appliances. She said Liam gets a free ride, but she's not even taking care of him, it was Ian who took Liam's clothes to V's to get washed.

Debbie hasn't been shown to be particularly motherly or loving toward her baby so her concern about losing her isn't at all believable. Franny just seems to be something that Debbie has to take care of which keeps her from doing other things. It's almost like Debbie only wants to hold on to her to prove to Fiona she didn't make a mistake in wanting to have a baby.

I assume Debbie's not going to school, and Liam is going to daycare, because school is out for the summer.

[iMonrey]

Quote

 It's almost like Debbie only wants to hold on to her to prove to Fiona she didn't make a mistake in wanting to have a baby.

I think that's exactly what it is and I wish she'd just admit it.

Quote

She said Liam gets a free ride, but she's not even taking care of him, it was Ian who took Liam's clothes to V's to get washed.

There's nothing particularly implausible about Fiona reaching a breaking point with her siblings and refusing to bail them out anymore, but she is Liam's legal guardian, so she shouldn't just be able to order Lip, Ian or anyone in the room to drop him off at daycare. She should have to do that. I don't mind if she wants to treat the rest of her siblings like boarders but she can't have it both ways. If they're just paying guests they have no responsibility to take care of Liam for her.

Also, if she's aspiring to be a smart business woman, fixing the washer is going to be cheaper in the long run than wasting money at the laundry mat, not to mention time-saving. But I think that was more about establishing this laundry mat as a place where Fiona saw another investment opportunity.

Edited November 3, 2016 by iMonrey

[Dee]

3 hours ago, dangwoodchucks said:

Debbie hasn't been shown to be particularly motherly or loving toward her baby so her concern about losing her isn't at all believable.

Well it's not as if she's had the best role models either.

Her bio mom won't stick around for more than a couple of months at any given time, her resident mother figure regularly ditches her when something or someone new occupies her attention, another of her mother figures is in jail for attempted murder, another fled the south side to work as a high end escort, her stepmother was essentially driven off by her bio dad, and her sister's BFF (who serves as a mother figure in a pinch) is busy running a business and taking care of three kids of her own.

If she didn't love and care about Franny she wouldn't have retrieved Franny from the firehouse or fight the homeless for prime street corners to beg on. And we've seen that it's hard for Debs to ask anyone, not just Fiona, for help.

Her mothering habits certainly aren't ideal, but they're definitely there.

[Empress1]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I think that's exactly what it is and I wish she'd just admit it.

There's nothing particularly implausible about Fiona reaching a breaking point with her siblings and refusing to bail them out anymore, but she is Liam's legal guardian, so she shouldn't just be able to order Lip, Ian or anyone in the room to drop him off at daycare. She should have to do that. I don't mind if she wants to treat the rest of her siblings like boarders but she can't have it both ways. If they're just paying guests they have no responsibility to take care of Liam for her.

Or lift a finger to fix HER washer. I mean, if she were to kick out Debbie and rent out her room, she wouldn't get to tell the new tenant to call to get the washer fixed and kick in $200 to fix it. That's not how it works. If her stance is "this is my house and you are only allowed to stay here for $x a month," their obligation to her is solely financial. Tenants do not do or pay for home repairs. The house and its problems belong to her, with everything that entails. You're right, she can't have it both ways.

Edited November 3, 2016 by Empress1

[whiporee]

Sure she can.  Landlords don't fix stuff all the time. And she hasn't kicked Debbie out, despite her being short and late.  

But the point is Debbie -- and all of them -- need to do something, and unless she gives them specific amounts, they'll shrug it off just like they have ever since she spared them from foster homes. Until that point, she was a sister; after it, she became, at least to Deb, a person required to take care of her.  

And while I see everyone remembers the good place Liam was in, let's not forget where Deb ended up -- pretty sure there was some forced child labor going on. Deb was rescued by Fiona more than any of them, and Deb decided  to transfer her anger towards Monica to her new "Mom," and has been shitting on everything Fiona has done since.   

In the eyes of the law, Fiona may have been her guardian, but did Debbie ever show maternal respect toward her? Fiona did a magnanimous thing to save her siblings from (mostly) bad situations, and assumed everything would go on as it had been going on. They've all always helped, but apparently some decided to stop  once it became Fiona's obligation. Her resenting that makes a lot of sense to me, and the condemnation she routinely gets for not being good enough at being a young-20-year-old parent to three kids under 16 --  not to mention a manic-depressive sibling. And Frank -- is patently unfair. This show does a lot of things wrong, but one thing it does right is show shit is HARD. She had no role models, either, and she's being blamed for not being a good enough one to kids who AREN'T HER KIDS. They don't treat her like a parent, they treat her like a sibling. Yet when she makes a perfectly reasonable demand of them, she's the bitchy one? Please. It's insane she has to ask. She didn't develop super-mom powers when she agreed to take guardianship -- she did the best thing she could think of to keep the family together. The way that's thrown in her face is crazy. 

She screwed up by fucking the kind of guy who would leave blow on a table, and by not getting the blow off the table. But as I see it, she's done pretty well by these kids and especially by Deb. Also, they were both pregnant, and Fiona chose to abort hers. And still got stuck being responsible for a baby. 

Fiona made the point that SHE's paying for diapers and formula, while when Debbie was stealing, she just hired a night nurse instead of pitching in.  Graft and taking advantage is genetic to these kids, and unless there's some sort of enforced contribution, Debbie has shown she's not going to contribute. 

So if she tells Deb she's got to help more, I don't see the issue.  If she asks Lip to get the washer fixed, I don't see the issue.  She's not their mother; she's a roommate who expects the others contribute, too. I fail to see bitchiness in that.  

Edited November 4, 2016 by whiporee
Had another point to develop. Sorry for the quick post

[BunnyBlueBrown]

Didn't Fiona say she would help pay to get the washer fixed...her issue was she wasn't going to wait at the house for the repair man....or I am completely making that up haha

[Tatum]

10 hours ago, DOBABYR said:

Didn't Fiona say she would help pay to get the washer fixed...her issue was she wasn't going to wait at the house for the repair man....or I am completely making that up haha

Fiona said she would pay her share to get it fixed. But she didn't want to spend the time calling around to repairmen, explaining the problem, getting quotes, and setting up the time for the repair. Honestly, depending on what the repair bill would be, and the time spent waiting, and the possibility whatever the repairman does (and charges for) doesn't fix the problem, it may be a better idea to shop around discount or outlet appliance stores. We went to Sears outlet for our dishwasher and got a brand new one with a dent in it for 75% percent off. 

I think it's fine for Fiona to say, Debbie, you're home all day, please grab the yellow pages and call around and see what the quoted repair cost and time to complete would be. But saying, fuck this, I ain't dealing with it, when she's holding the title of the property and threat of eviction over their heads is bullshit.

 

Also agree that if Fiona is so pressed for time and money, using a laundromat long term is probably not the way to go. You have to either sit and wait, or risk your stuff being stolen.