S03.E05: Men Against Fire

[marieYOTZ]

I really enjoyed this episode, thought the scene where he came face to face with 'roaches' down in the hidey hole was great - and then was persuaded to let that knowledge go... but what the hell was with his dream-girl showing up at the end? I completely failed to understand her significance. 

[Chicago Redshirt]

He accepted whatever the Mass was feeding him -- that he was going to go to a lovely home with a lovely wife -- when in reality he was going to an empty rundown building. 

[Phillygurl]

Ok so I may be thinking too deep but this episode had so much more to do with our past than with future technology. It goes back to slavery how it was ok to beat and kill and sell black people because they were "animals" compared to white people. It goes back to the holocaust when it was ok to exterminate the "filth" that were the Jews. Btw I am black so maybe that's why this episode had such a specific significance to me but really... That is why you see so many atrocities done to people who different. Whether it be race or religion or cultural we all cling to our differences. We all have our own built in Mass from birth. If only there were a machine that could simply disable it. We would see one another just as we are. Maybe there would be more mercy, less judgment 

[benteen]

Another episode where I enjoyed the world-building and the whole military situation they set up against the "rodents."  Of course, this being Black Mirror, it wasn't what we expected and what they're doing is basically a worldwide holocaust, which is awful.

I thought this was one of the two weaker episodes of the season but I still enjoyed it.

Nice to see Michael Kelly in this.  I still remember him as Snow in Person of Interest.

[Negritude]

The last 15 minutes was great, the first 40, not so much. What's with the slow burn on some of these episodes good grief! As soon as he said he could smell the grass, I caught on to what was happening...30 something minutes into it. The less said about the other Black soldier who was clearly covering up his natural cockney accent with that horrendous American "urban" one, the better. Malachi Kirby, who is from England, fared a little better. And look there's the girl who's death was covered up by Pornstache in season 1 of OITNB! Now with just one braid instead of a whole headful! 

The antiwar theme was a little heavy handed. Don't give the government any ideas on how to lessen incidents of PTSD in combat vets show!

I still have residual love for Malachi Kirby leftover for his turn as Kunte Kinte in the Roots remake. That is one pretty, chocolate young man. 

Edited October 24, 2016 by Negritude

[snowwhyte]

I really liked this one. When they were talking about roaches I expected them to be regular people but when they showed up looking vampiresque I was surprised. I was a bit slow to catch on. I thought maybe they had some disease but they might still be being treating unfairly. The whole idea that they were being targeted because of their defective genes was very relevant. Scientists are isolating the genes for certain diseases. If our DNA is read and all our future genetic illnesses are available discrimination and a eugenics program wouldn't be much of a stretch. The fact that the local village didn't have the mass system and were advocating the extermination of the roaches was illustrative of that. 

[jellysalmon]

16 hours ago, Negritude said:

The last 15 minutes was great, the first 40, not so much. What's with the slow burn on some of these episodes good grief! As soon as he said he could smell the grass, I caught on to what was happening...30 something minutes into it. 

Yes I agree wholeheartedly. Overall I enjoyed the episodes but every single one could have been edited down by a good 15 minutes. Most of them have scenes that don't really add anything to the narrative, it's just more 5-star rating interaction/Blackmailer coercion/hanging out in San Junipero etc.

But this one feels the slowest because the reveal is so obvious that the payoff isn't that surprising or satisfying.

[Primetimer]

Humanoid mutants terrorizing country villages? No problem. Doug Stamper shows up? Uh-oh.

View the full article

[LanceHunter]

This episode was my favorite of the season. (And now my number 2 favorite of the series behind Fifteen Million Merits.) Also, I think it goes to show that while people compare Black Mirror to The Twilight Zone, its moral worldview is a lot closer to Tales from the Crypt.

I mean, you can get an idea of what is coming, but there's some moments where you think that it can't possibly be as bad as you expect. Like, the unit commander is talking to the sympathizer civilian and talking about the danger of the roaches' blood and you think maybe there really is some deadly genetic condition that isn't necessarily visible and the powers can almost have some twisted justification for what they do. That would probably be the Twilight Zone version. But no, this is fucking Black Mirror. It's just straight-up Nazi-level eugenics. Explicitly and unquestionably evil, and our protagonist has to live with it. Damn.

(Also little moments in the episode that hit much harder on re-watch, like how one of the soldiers talks about how dumb the country folk are because in the cities they managed to stomp out all the roaches quickly and without issue.)

[millennium]

This episode was a big "meh."   

[PamelaMaeSnap]

On October 23, 2016 at 10:06 PM, Phillygurl said:

It goes back to slavery how it was ok to beat and kill and sell black people because they were "animals" compared to white people. It goes back to the holocaust when it was ok to exterminate the "filth" that were the Jews. Btw I am black so maybe that's why this episode had such a specific significance to me

Phillygurl, ditto here ... maybe because I'm Jewish ... while I can always understand why others might see any given episode and think it's "meh" or terrible or heavy-handed or not thought out or whatever, we all have our POVs and for me (and my husband, actually), we think this was by far the best (and also by far the most disturbing) of all of the episodes thus far.  The analogies to the Holocaust were very obvious and the suggestion that this could happen again all too real ... basically, taking technology and eugenics to the Nth degree.

The acting, as always, was outstanding.  This show does a superb job of casting, IMHO. 

Glad to see it's renewed for a fourth season ... 

[Slovenly Muse]

It's true. Yes, the episode is a bit heavy-handed and the twist is easy to see coming, but the real strength of Black Mirror is the way it explores not just what emerging technology can DO, but the ways in which it can facilitate the darker tendencies of humanity. The horror of the episode is not just what the military is doing, but the fact that when given the choice, people will choose to live in blissful ignorance, bury their heads in the sand, caring more for their own personal comfort than about the unspeakable acts of violence they may be committing against other people. And the technology doesn't just give the military a way to control and manipulate their soldiers to increase their kill rates, but it also absolves them of responsibility to provide real care and support for their soldiers afterwards. Why bother taking care of someone when you can press a button and make them believe that they are supported, loved, and prosperous? Seeing Stripe standing in front of that shithole having visions of a beautiful house and partner provides such a contrast between how the military is ACTUALLY compensating him for his service, and how he believes that they are. Proving that while the soldiers are made to see the "Roaches" as less-than-human by their implants, the military sees its soldiers that way all on their own. Because power corrupts, and having that kind of immense power over another person's perception of reality will absolutely lead to abuse. That's why I loved this episode. The technology and its use is horrific, but humanity's real enemy is not technology itself, but our own innate darkness, and what it will lead us to do when it is given a foothold.

[PamelaMaeSnap]

Okay, so one question (and a thank you to the recapper for, I think, answering what I also would have asked, i.e., in the final haunting scene, the tears on Stripe's face, what did you guys think it implied? I also suspected that even though he re-upped (and was apparently "re-set" and "rewarded," a part of him recognized the difference between MASS reality and reality but would be interested to hear other people's take on it) ...

Question is this: Why do the MASS "pods" do what they're doing with their hands/fingers? I'm not sure that's ever explained. My inference when I first saw it was that they were, in some way, inputting into a remote control of sorts, but I'm still unsure and it wasn't addressed in the recap (unless I missed it). Watched it with my husband and he didn't know either.

So ... theories on that? It must be SOMETHING because it's definitely emphasized several times ... at the beginning and, especially, when he wakes up and the MASSpods are all "sleeping" (or resetting or whatever) totally still and identically posed except for the moving fingers/hands.

[romantic idiot]

I thought they were fingering their guns. 

On 10/24/2016 at 5:44 AM, Chicago Redshirt said:

He accepted whatever the Mass was feeding him -- that he was going to go to a lovely home with a lovely wife -- when in reality he was going to an empty rundown building. 

I just thought accepting the beautiful woman was how his brain interpreted the act of accepting the conditioning, not that he was actually there. 

On 10/24/2016 at 6:06 AM, Phillygurl said:

Ok so I may be thinking too deep but this episode had so much more to do with our past than with future technology. It goes back to slavery how it was ok to beat and kill and sell black people because they were "animals" compared to white people. It goes back to the holocaust when it was ok to exterminate the "filth" that were the Jews. Btw I am black so maybe that's why this episode had such a specific significance to me but really... That is why you see so many atrocities done to people who different. Whether it be race or religion or cultural we all cling to our differences. We all have our own built in Mass from birth. If only there were a machine that could simply disable it. We would see one another just as we are. Maybe there would be more mercy, less judgment 

I think that's what BM's theme is, overall. We live in the future with cool technology, but it's a dystopian world because human being are shitty and human nature doesn't change. 

[Which Tyler]

On 17/11/2016 at 4:11 PM, PamelaMaeSnap said:

Question is this: Why do the MASS "pods" do what they're doing with their hands/fingers? I'm not sure that's ever explained. My inference when I first saw it was that they were, in some way, inputting into a remote control of sorts, but I'm still unsure and it wasn't addressed in the recap (unless I missed it). Watched it with my husband and he didn't know either.

So ... theories on that? It must be SOMETHING because it's definitely emphasized several times ... at the beginning and, especially, when he wakes up and the MASSpods are all "sleeping" (or resetting or whatever) totally still and identically posed except for the moving fingers/hands.

IMO: It's the remote control for what they're seeing / feeling. Basically a more advanced version of the eye-implant we see in Nosedive, White Christmas and Entire History of You

Edited November 29, 2016 by Which Tyler

[NutMeg]

On 10/29/2016 at 4:17 AM, LanceHunter said:

This episode was my favorite of the season. (And now my number 2 favorite of the series behind Fifteen Million Merits.) 

Funny you should say that, because this episode actually felt very similar to me than Fifteen Million Merits - man is ignorant that he is a cog, man discovers he is a cog, man chooses to be/stay a cog in the system, man embraces a life that is a fake/feel good virtual life. Maybe that's why this so far is the most depressing to me (15M merits was also one of the most depressing to me).

On 11/29/2016 at 5:54 PM, Which Tyler said:

IMO: It's the remote control for what they're seeing / feeling. Basically a more advanced version of the eye-implant we see in Nosedive, White Christmas and Entire History of You

Definitely. It's like a callback to "earlier" technology - "earlier" in that we know from previous episodes that eye implant technology is supposed to exist.

In a weird way, I find this episode the most current of them all. Thinking about the current geopolitical situation, it's where we are, minus MASS, and I cannot help but think that people are working on a MASS-like device. And no, I'm not a tinfoil hat wearer, but there is something there that really seems like it's already happening, and that scares the shit out of me.

Not sure how to interpret the tears at the end: some residual memory that makes him know it's all fake? 

Also, the people sleeping and their hand gestures: I interpret it as they control their dreams, to some extend (they can get more or less power, as we saw when Stripe was awarded more power - "a very good sleep" - as a reward, which of course was a fail because it didn't take into account his new awareness). Here too, while we don't yet electronically control our dreams, we have seen the emergence of sexless populations who get their thrill virtually (started in Japan, spreading elsewhere), so we're not that far from that either.  

[Amarsir]

Can anyone explain why his squad lead said the village's food (that the roaches had raided) would be destroyed? That didn't make sense unless they had some communicable disease but none of the rest of the story - real or MASS-fed - meshed with it that I could tell. Maybe I missed something earlier but when I heard her tell the rancher that it tuck with me for the rest of the episode.

[DarkRaichu]

On 1/22/2017 at 2:02 PM, Amarsir said:

Can anyone explain why his squad lead said the village's food (that the roaches had raided) would be destroyed? That didn't make sense unless they had some communicable disease but none of the rest of the story - real or MASS-fed - meshed with it that I could tell. Maybe I missed something earlier but when I heard her tell the rancher that it tuck with me for the rest of the episode.

That was a lie to discourage the villagers from helping the roaches.  The rancher that hid and lived with the roaches was obviously just fine.

[NutMeg]

6 hours ago, DarkRaichu said:

That was a lie to discourage the villagers from helping the roaches.  The rancher that hid and lived with the roaches was obviously just fine.

In retrospect, you're absolutely right. But no way would I have guessed that while watching - or just after, because there were much more pressingly disturbing things to absorb ;)

[DarkRaichu]

6 hours ago, NutMeg said:

In retrospect, you're absolutely right. But no way would I have guessed that while watching - or just after, because there were much more pressingly disturbing things to absorb ;)

Actually, after the rancher stabbed the squad commander, I kept waiting for her to turn roach. At this point my impression was if the infection could spread via food then it probably spread via blood too.  When she basically glossed over it like it was nothing I knew we were not watching the regular deadly infection show.  Kudos to the writers for the misdirection ;)

[Amarsir]

On 1/23/2017 at 8:14 PM, DarkRaichu said:

That was a lie to discourage the villagers from helping the roaches.  The rancher that hid and lived with the roaches was obviously just fine.

Watching again, I'd have to say "yes and no" to it being a lie. When the Squad Commander told Heidecker (the rancher) "the food will be destroyed; the villagers won't eat it" she was telling the truth. The villagers did tell her they wouldn't eat the food that was left so it would have to be destroyed. We can say this is a lie they told themselves (or that had been passed on) but strictly speaking no one said it was contaminated. Only "the villagers won't eat it."

Which makes it that much more powerful, bringing to mind history like segregated water fountains. Obviously "unclean" was always implied there, but details like disease went to the wayside and were supplanted with a simple "they used this so I won't." That's really the most the villagers said about it.

The reason this all stuck with me is that everything the Commander said works perfectly in both realities. "They carry a sickness in their blood." "If they are allowed to breed it will get passed down to future generations." "You can't still see them as human. Understandable sentiment but it's misguided." If we took it as anything more than face value that's the power of context.

[marcee]

Based on what I can remember, the villagers have never *seen* a roach. They've been told horrendous stories and imagine terrible things. Their stuff has been rifled through; they've been told the roaches are filthy and diseased - but if I remember, correctly, no one actually SAW the roaches pilfer their food. My guess is, since they don't have the MASS implants, if they ever did encounter a "roach" they might just assimilate that person into their village without realizing.

[Pike Ludwell]

On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 5:05 PM, marcee said:

Based on what I can remember, the villagers have never *seen* a roach. They've been told horrendous stories and imagine terrible things. Their stuff has been rifled through; they've been told the roaches are filthy and diseased - but if I remember, correctly, no one actually SAW the roaches pilfer their food. My guess is, since they don't have the MASS implants, if they ever did encounter a "roach" they might just assimilate that person into their village without realizing.

Yes. Apparently if the roaches just stay away from these MASS implant soldiers, they could be fine and respectable citizens of the community.

Edited February 28, 2017 by riverclown

[Blue Plastic]

So how does the implant know who is supposed to be a roach and who is supposed to be human so it can show the soldier who he/she is supposed to shoot?  That was something I wasn't clear on.

[romantic idiot]

Implanted and not?

[iMonrey]

I found this episode lacking because I didn't really understand the world very much. I understood the point of the story, but compared to other episodes it was less clear what was going on in general. How does the MASS implant distinguish between "roaches" and regular "villagers?" If the "roaches" look normal to ordinary "villagers" they how are they ostracized from said villages? Has the entire population gone through some sort of screening, so that the undesirables are implanted with some kind of chip that allows the MASS implants to see them as monsters? I don't get it.

I also didn't get the ending. I assume Stripe decided to be reset and return to his Mass-produced illusions but was the ending a dream?  

After Stripe's talk with the psychiatrist, it appeared as if the doctor himself was able to program a "very good night" for Stripe i.e. what appeared to be a wet dream. Do the soldiers get those as rewards, or can they program their own at their own discretion?

Too many questions.

Edited October 6, 2017 by iMonrey

[SWLinPHX]

On 10/6/2017 at 0:44 PM, iMonrey said:

How does the MASS implant distinguish between "roaches" and regular "villagers?" If the "roaches" look normal to ordinary "villagers" they how are they ostracized from said villages? Has the entire population gone through some sort of screening, so that the undesirables are implanted with some kind of chip that allows the MASS implants to see them as monsters? I don't get it.

Quote

So how does the implant know who is supposed to be a roach and who is supposed to be human so it can show the soldier who he/she is supposed to shoot?  That was something I 

What needed to be explained much more clearly, and would have taken only 20 seconds to do so (in a run that had plenty of time for it), was that those whose bloodlines had been purified via eugenics from all the human potential for disease that we have today (and that the "roaches" still have) had some kind of mark or internal chip to distinguish them as pure.  The MASS implants showed those people as normal to the soldiers.  It was a badge of honor to be marked (or implanted) as "pure", something people would welcome so as to be differentiated from the roaches.  If it were the reverse (and the roaches had the mark or implant) they would have tried to remove them.

[Lady Calypso]

It took me some real paying attention to understand this episode, but I enjoyed it all the same. From what the Danish mother was telling Stripe, the Mass implants were created after they started screening for whatever genetic mutations the "roaches" have that make them undesirable. Then, she said there was the register, so it seems like the implants relate to all of those measures they took to help the soldiers identify the civs from the roaches. 

What a horrifying episode all around. It certainly was correlating to the Holocaust, with how the soldiers were made to show the roaches to be different, and had to literally change their appearance to make them look like creatures they'd want to kill. And it sucks even more when the roaches are identified through genetic conditions they may or may not even develop. 

The fact that the soldiers not only don't remember consenting, but they're basically coerced into consenting willingly. It's definitely a world that probably most people wouldn't want to live in. That has to be almost half the population that will be seen as roaches by the soldiers. And most are probably trying to lay low, trying not to be spotted by soldiers so they can blend in better. 

As for the things they did with their fingers when "dreaming", I figure it was them controlling the dream. Since we know Mass is given full access and control by the military or whoever is controlling it behind the scenes, I figure it's their way of controlling what happens or where they look or what they do. Or maybe, it's just because they're given access to feelings, including touch, that their bodies are subconsciously taking advantage of the opportunity to feel something as simple as their fingers touching.

But yeah, they didn't fully explain everything that they could have, so many things are still questions for me. 

[Hanahope]

Another good example about how those in power abuse it to eliminate those that rebel. 

Coukd you live with yourself seeing what you did all the time, or allow yourself to continue to be used.  What an awful choice.

[CigarDoug]

On 10/6/2017 at 3:44 PM, iMonrey said:

I found this episode lacking because I didn't really understand the world very much. I understood the point of the story, but compared to other episodes it was less clear what was going on in general. How does the MASS implant distinguish between "roaches" and regular "villagers?" If the "roaches" look normal to ordinary "villagers" they how are they ostracized from said villages? Has the entire population gone through some sort of screening, so that the undesirables are implanted with some kind of chip that allows the MASS implants to see them as monsters? I don't get it.

The villagers (and all non-Soldiers, probably the Psychiatrist as well) do not have MASS implants. They simply see Jews, or Gypsies, or Muslims, or Slavs, or (insert whatever group you are raised to hate, here) for what they are. If V (what I am calling the Army Stripe enlisted in, it's a modified V of sorts) has decreed that Gypsies are roaches, then they program MASS to see the genetic marker that makes you a Gypsy, and you appear as a roach. They could set it to make Blacks roaches next, or whatever the undesirable group is, based on the politics of the day.

From a personal perspective, as a White American, I couldn't easily tell a Jew from a Gypsy from a Slav from any other European. I wasn't raised to hate any group, so I don't see it. I don't see what the racists are raised to see. To be blunt, I can easily tell a Black person or an Asian person from a White, but beyond that, it's not that obvious, at least to me. But if my parents pointed out a group on a regular basis for me to hate/fear/whatever, I supposed it would be easier to see.

[pfk505]

I'm only up to this point, but this might be my favourite episode of Black Mirror. It was just superbly well done. The expected "twist" was pretty obvious, but that doesn't take away from the power of it. My interpretation of the episode was that the MASS system was basically a future version of propaganda and indoctrination. It serves to do one thing only: to dehumanize the enemy. Michael Kelly (or Stamper as I prefer to call him) basically laid this out in the penultimate scene. It is the ultimate military weapon. It is the holy grail of every hawkish politician sitting behind the scenes pulling strings. Remove the sight, the smell, the sounds of suffering humanity and you have a soldier who is all that much easier to train. I found this episode horrifying, insidious, and possibly more "relevant" than any other episode of this terrific show.