S13.E04: Falling Slowly

[iMonrey]

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Someone above raised the point that by now, he should be moving on from Meredith. He keeps pursuing her and she keeps rebuffing him. 

But she keeps doing it in coy, flirtatious ways. It's no wonder he keeps pursuing her, she's sending decidedly mixed signals. And I think he sees a little bit of himself in her and probably considers her a soul mate, since they have both lost their "true loves."

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 I really wish he had told Bailey "Oh, I'm so sorry that me being viciosly beaten and having my career jeoparidzed over something that was in no way a fault of my own is such an annoyance to YOU." 

Yeah, Bailey is the one who is really pissing me off lately. She keeps dismissing everyone in her office like she can't even with any of them and then buries her nose in her paperwork while waving them off. Now, maybe all of this is really HR's department but so far she kind of sucks as a hospital administrator.

[shantown]

22 minutes ago, BaseOps said:

I think Maggie has been one of the most misused characters in the shows history. First, they avoided the only interesting aspect of her character for me when she was introduced - her connection to Richard. They totally neglected to develop it, which would have not only been great for Richard, but also a much more interesting way to explore Maggie's character. Then they spent the entire first half of S12 pushing her and DeLuca before abruptly breaking them up - only to have her randomly develop feelings for Riggs to shove her into this 'triangle'. On top of that, they went waaaaay too hard with the 'sisters' angle between Maggie, Amelia, and Meredith. I think the actress is fine, and Maggie could have worked - but they've really made her hard for me to root for her. 

I've been circling around a similar thought in a few of my posts (and in offline conversations). There's been no real development for any of the characters outside of a romantic partnership or triangle. Even the familial relationships (the forced sisterhood of Amelia, Maggie, and Meredith) is completely in the context of romantic plots. It would be nice to see Richard-Maggie interactions to grow both those characters. 

[OtterMommy]

A solid episode, but it didn't really do anything to push the season forward (except for maybe Jackson and April...personally, I'm more than okay with that...).

A couple things I really don't understand:

1 - Did I miss where Alex lost his driver's license?  I know that he carpooled with Mer, but I would think he would drive himself on a day he knew he had an appointment.

2 - DIdn't April fire Arizona (or vice versa, I can't remember) as a patient last season?

3 - I really don't understand the relationship between the clinic and the surgical side of the hospital.  Are they two different entities?  Does Bailey still have sway over the clinic?  Why can't anyone do anything about the ass who is running it?

Also, I've decided that I like Riggs, but I don't like Riggs and Meredith together (and, no, I'm not gunning for Riggs and Maggie either....).  I'd really love for this triangle to just be over.

I also got the feeling that they are pushing a Jo/DeLuca relationship, which I don't find interesting (but I could be wrong...I thought at one time they were trying to push a Jackson/Cristina relationship, and that never came to pass).

[Muffyn]

5 hours ago, doram said:

But this is the part I never understood about Japril. They did know each other. They were in Mercy West together for two years. After the merge, they hung out in the same group as those 2 dead residents and were 'best friends'. Then they lived together until they were attendings, first in Meredith's house, and then in Alex's.The show forgets its backstory when it comes to this relationship and it's so frustrating. 

This shows one of the on-going issues with this show - when people get together romantically it is as if they never had meaningful interaction before that.  It is so weird in a show that has been focused on friend relationships, especially between women.  We have also had strong friend relationships between men and women, although they tend to include "the sun" and the men tend to take a backseat to her sun-ness.  Clearly these characters get to know each other as colleagues and the, in many cases, as friends.  They spend a lot of time together at work and at home.  So they would know more about each other.  Yes, Owen and Amelia had a really short engagement, but they have known each other for years.   And, as you pointed out, this was the case with Japril also.  They knew each other well before the epic elopement. 

Okay, getting out my soapbox to talk about Alex's case of the week.  Easily dislocating a shoulder is not the only thing needed to diagnose EDS.  The syndrome has very specific signs.  They would check her joints for extreme laxity, as in can she bend her fingers damn near backwards.  They would also look at the laxity in her skin.  There are variants in EDS that show varying levels of joint laxity and skin changes; however, there are tell tale signs.  Also, needing fluids after having one beer is not a signifier for this syndrome.  If they believed she was not an alcoholic, they should check her kidney function and do an endocrine panel, unless they think she has the variant of the syndrome that causes major issues with blood vessels and they think she has a bleed.  Again, they would need to check her blood work and look for signs of bleeding.  I know they handwaved that she was getting a workup, but they could still try, at least a little, to come up with something more realistic.  There are many connective tissue disorders (I have one) that could make a person have lax joints.  There are also multiple issues that could affect her ability to process alcohol.  Couldn't they have picked one of those?    Putting my soapbox away . . . .

[Ohwell]

5 hours ago, Joana said:

Of all the stupid crap the show has pulled off over the years, DeLuca being treated like a pariah when he was actually the wronged one has to rank among the worst. It just makes no sense. I really wish he had told Bailey "Oh, I'm so sorry that me being viciosly beaten and having my career jeoparidzed over something that was in no way a fault of my own is such an annoyance to YOU." 

I couldn't believe Bailey's reaction to DeLuca in her office.  She was never one of my favorite characters (none are, actually), but I really hated her for that.

[StaceyNotStacie]

3 hours ago, Biggie B said:

She did. If I recall, she did get pregnant with the boyfriend who OD'd. She had the baby but he was either born without much of a brain or had some other severely horrible condition that didn't permit him to live long - or he might have even been stillborn, I don't quite recall.

If I remember correctly, the baby's brain was either missing or there was some other issue with the brain. The baby was born alive and his  viable organs were donated to other children. 

[izabella]

8 minutes ago, Stacey1014 said:

If I remember correctly, the baby's brain was either missing or there was some other issue with the brain. The baby was born alive and his  viable organs were donated to other children. 

Yes, I think it was encephaly?  They discovered that in utero, but Amelia decided to carry to term so that they could donate the baby's organs so that something positive could come out of it.  Super painful story line for her, and should be something she'd discuss with Owen!

[windsprints]

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I see some people upset about Bailey telling DeLuca not to discuss the case at work

I thought Jo said something about being told not to discuss the case at work too. I would think that everyone would be told that to make sure that nothing is said to make the hospital liable (especially after how Meredith behaved towards him in the elevator)  So it was fine with me that something was said to DeLuca about not talking about the case within the hospital. What I thought sucked was Bailey's manner of doing it.  She could have shown even the slightest amount of empathy towards him. He's one of her employees and has been through a traumatic experience.  A few simple words to acknowledge he's had a difficult time would have gone a long way for me. Would "I understand you've been through a lot but the lawyers have said we cannot discuss anything about the case at all within the hospital" been so hard?  Maybe they are gearing up towards DeLuca suing the hospital along with the criminal case. 

[iMonrey]

Wait, I forgot to bash April!

So, this week she's inflicting her unwanted baggage on poor Stephanie. And I don't even like Stephanie that much. (I mean, I don't dislike her, but she's just sort of there.) Jackson's already at work, April isn't back at work, so she's got the whole apartment to herself so he has to bring the baby to the hospital nursery and crash in the on-call room and unload all over poor Stephanie who's just trying to get some shut-eye after a 16-hour shift. Bitch, go home. You're not at work, you don't get to use the on-call room when there are doctors who have legit reasons for doing so.

{/end weekly April-is-insufferable rant.}

[tapplum]

4 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Wait, I forgot to bash April!

So, this week she's inflicting her unwanted baggage on poor Stephanie. And I don't even like Stephanie that much. (I mean, I don't dislike her, but she's just sort of there.) Jackson's already at work, April isn't back at work, so she's got the whole apartment to herself so he has to bring the baby to the hospital nursery and crash in the on-call room and unload all over poor Stephanie who's just trying to get some shut-eye after a 16-hour shift. Bitch, go home. You're not at work, you don't get to use the on-call room when there are doctors who have legit reasons for doing so.

{/end weekly April-is-insufferable rant.}

While it's par for the course to have the doctors oversharing like crazy about their homelife at work, it does stand out as particularly tasteless for April to do this to Stephanie. You know, the woman Jackson ditched in the most humiliating way possible in order to elope with April.

[readster]

The problem with DeLuca is by now, besides as many have said he should tell Baily that his being beaten over something he didn't do should not be an inconvience to her. I'm surprise he just hasn't just said to Bailey or even Alex and said: "Jo isn't even her real name. She is still married to someone and she was drunk out of her mind." "So, why don't you go ask her what this shit is about and go beat up her husband Alex, because she was afraid you would if she told you the truth." I mean he is letting everyone screw him over and he has no obligation to Jo to stay quiet like this. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

7 hours ago, LucyHoneychrrch said:

When Amelia asked, "Are our kids going to be okay?" I LITERALLY YELLED "NOOOO!!!" at the television. No, omg, please do not have children right now, this is maybe the worst decision ever, and that includes the time I decided to wear tights under shorts in 1994.

Jean shorts, right?

Although I wish the triangle storyline would end, I did appreciate two things that happened this week: (1) when Riggs suggested going to a movie or hanging out together outside of work, it was obvious that he's interested in more than just having sex with her (2) the fight they had about why he took her side was a rare moment of actual emotion and honesty between them (as opposed to their usual conversations where Meredith tells him to go away).

I had to laugh when Alex looked so tan. The first thing I thought was that he must be using his suspension time to get spray tanned. 

[moonorchid]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

Wait, I forgot to bash April!

So, this week she's inflicting her unwanted baggage on poor Stephanie. And I don't even like Stephanie that much. (I mean, I don't dislike her, but she's just sort of there.) Jackson's already at work, April isn't back at work, so she's got the whole apartment to herself so he has to bring the baby to the hospital nursery and crash in the on-call room and unload all over poor Stephanie who's just trying to get some shut-eye after a 16-hour shift. Bitch, go home. You're not at work, you don't get to use the on-call room when there are doctors who have legit reasons for doing so.

{/end weekly April-is-insufferable rant.}

Just FYI she says there were cleaning people at jacksons house and she felt it was rude to sleep while they cleaned. I've had a cleaning lady come to my house, I don't even feel comfortable staying at home when she's there. It's weird. So April being there had a legit reason. 

[RedheadZombie]

I don't understand why Alex/DeLuca are Bailey's problem at all, and I certainly don't understand why DeLuca could supposedly sue the hospital.  The hospital had nothing to do with it.  Bailey had nothing to do with it.  They were in a private residence.  It's getting ridiculous.  Now if the hospital were to fire DeLuca because he swore out a retraining order, and it became awkward at work.  Or if the hospital refused to accommodate DeLuca, yet accommodated Alex.  Otherwise it's an HR issue, and I can see Bailey involved in a meeting with HR, but not taking charge, doing the paperwork, and personally being in charge of the whole thing.

Edited October 14, 2016 by RedheadZombie
spelling

[DearEvette]

46 minutes ago, moonorchid said:

Just FYI she says there were cleaning people at jacksons house and she felt it was rude to sleep while they cleaned. I've had a cleaning lady come to my house, I don't even feel comfortable staying at home when she's there. It's weird. So April being there had a legit reason

But Doesn't she have a home of her own?

It is hard to comment on this episode because nothing new has happened.  We are no closer to anyone finding out about Jo, Or Alex's fate and the triangle of doom just trundles along pointlessly.  The medical stuff wasn't even that interesting. 

I liked Nathan asking Maggie if they were ok..  But I would have liked it better if it had just been a scene between the two of them that he had initiated upon seeing how awkward she was around him.  Instead of the umpteenth scene of him and Meredith doing some of the most cringe worthy flirting.

I did like the stuff with Alex at the clinic.  The while snotty vibe of the surgeons toward the clinic, like they were slumming. And also nurse Tamir using this an an opportunity to lord it over a surgeon.  The whole class divide vibe thing worked for me there.

The actress who played Emma (the girl with the disease I keep wanting to call Ellis Dongle) looks so familiar.  Now I need to figure out where Iv'e seen her before.

[Chicken Wing]

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But Doesn't she have a home of her own?

But no one there to watch the baby while she naps.

[OtterMommy]

6 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

But Doesn't she have a home of her own?

 

At the point in the show where April crashed Stephanie's sleep, she was not considered "healed" and Arizona hadn't cleared her to move out of Jackson's (although I don't know why that would be...she had been carrying Harriet around and I assume that she drove herself to the hospital, so I would think it was pretty clear April was, at least close to being healed.  I also don't know why she would need practically a doctor's note to move out of her ex-husband's house. But I'm not complaining, because I have a soft-spot for Jackson and April.....)

[windsprints]

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I don't understand why Alex/DeLuca are Bailey's problem at all, and I certainly don't understand why DeLuca could supposedly sue the hospital.  The hospital had nothing to do with it.  Bailey had nothing to do with it.  They were in a private residence.  It's getting ridiculous.  Now if the hospital were to fire DeLuca because he swore out a retraining order, and it became awkward at work.  Or if the hospital refused to accommodate DeLuca, yet accommodated Alex.  Otherwise it's an HR issue, and I can see Bailey involved in a meeting with HR, but not taking charge, doing the paperwork, and personally being in charge of the whole thing.

For whatever reason the COS of SGM apparently does it all, everything from HR to making decisions for the entire hospital. Its always been ridiculous that there's no Chief of Staff, Chief of Operations and various other positions.  I guess they decided early on that COS is the top spot.  Nothing about the actual work they do is all that realistic. In this episode the Chief of General Surgery was meeting a helicopter on the roof like a resident and frequently does the work of an ER resident.

I brought up the possibility of DeLuca suing the hospital because of how its all been playing out.  If his fight with a superior at his job causes him to have a perceived hostile work environment there is possibility of a lawsuit (especially on Grey's where its not like any of the legal aspects are ever accurate).  If people are all talking about the fight and whispering about DeLuca that's part of his work environment. Meredith talking to him about it in the elevator is part of his work environment. If he feels Alex's friends are keeping him from learning that's part of his work environment. No one speaking to him and shutting him out completely is part of his work environment.  They seem to be creating this environment for DeLuca without much explanation so I was just throwing a guess out there.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

The actress who played Emma (the girl with the disease I keep wanting to call Ellis Dongle) looks so familiar.  Now I need to figure out where Iv'e seen her before.

Taylour Paige played Ahhhhhsha on Hit the Floor, which is why I recognized her. At least as Emma, her monotone way of speaking seemed appropriate!

[marceline]

Owen and Amelia are the least interesting couple in the world. Every scene about their marriage only served to show how superfluous both characters really are. 

Timir from the clinic was a dick. 

Once again, Maggie needs to grow. the fuck. up.

Deluca being frozen out made perfect sense. Look at how many times whistleblowers or people who make harassment claims are treated like the problem. He's the victim but he's also disturbed the status quo and that's always unforgivable.

[flickers]

This was the first episode I saw a legit possibility of the show pairing up Meredith and Alex. Maybe, also, because the Jo/Deluca vibes were strong. I'm not a Jolex hater, but they've been given so little since S10 that it's hard to root for them finding their way back to each other. Alex barely seems to miss Jo at all. If Shonda is cottoning on to the fact that MerRiggs is seriously lacking in the chemistry department, I think they'll go there.

Edited October 15, 2016 by flickers

[Chas411]

I don't think Mer/Riggs lack in chemistry but I agree I don't see them working out and that's solely due to the bad storytelling. I'd gladly be wrong but I think they've ruined what could have been a perfectly good ship  with such an awful storyline. Maggies involvement just makes it ridiculous and makes all three characters look like total morons. Meredith and Riggs in scenes alone have had some lovely moments - it's the unnecessary need to involve third parties that ruins it. I can already tell that as soon as the Maggie drama is over the dead ex wife  suddenly will return and everything they've bonded over will be diminished. And this isn't season one Meredith/Addison/Derek. I can't see anyone giving a crap about the dead wife. It'll be as eye rolling as the Maggie crap.

As for Meredith/Alex - I don't know. I could see Shonda and co giving into the fans maybe at the end of the series but I don't know if they'd want to go there yet. It could go well but realistically it could also be a bigger mess then Gizzie and as they're friendship is such a focal point of the show I don't know if the writers would risk that as if it doesn't go down as well as they hope (and I really think it would be like a brother and sister getting it on) it could be a huge turn off. It's not a love story that was built up over seasons - it's just down to Cristina leaving and Derek dying that suddenly Alex became Merediths best option of a happy ending. It doesn't feel organic to either character.

One of the biggest complaints since Alex became Merediths person is that she's been a crappy friend to him while he's been a doormat when it comes to her. I think the big focus on the friendship this season is the writers trying to fix that so the friendship seems more even.

Edited October 15, 2016 by Chas411

[Maukie99]

I really have a stupid feeling about Merthan. I mean Owen fits Harriet on in 13x05 and also wants a child. Amelia also wants a child. Nathan likes Harriet but does not want children and will not become a father.

Meredith has also already completed mother to become again and does not want to become pregnant, but what if Meredith is the one who is pregnant? Because for me it is too easy and obviously the Amelia is the one who is pregnant.

Somewhere I've read, of course, the Meredith Nathan a big news must bring?

And I'd just say this is Greys and that's Shonda.

Edited October 15, 2016 by Maukie99

[Deanie87]

I think it's a sign of just how badly Jo and DeLuca have been written that less than a minute of conversation and a shared sandwhich, eaten while standing up and two feet from each other causes romantic speculation.  I mean, why not? Neither has anything else going on in their big "storyline."  Although DeLuca does actually know that Jo is married so it wouldn't be his wisest move.  As far as Alex, he did seem affected and distracted when Jo showed up in the clinic, but I don't know what's going on with her. I'm sure she's still angry and confused about everything.  If only the adults on this show could communicate.

[Chas411]

My biggest issue for the show at the moment is that Alex is not really sorry. He's only sorry that what he did had a direct effect on his career and relationship. Until the writers and Alex decide to acknowledge what he did was a massive error and have him genuinely apologise to DeLuca for what he did and admit he was completely at fault then I'm on Jo's side for not wanting to be around him.

He's all about doing the work at the clinic and going through the motions of his punishment but until he actually apologises and has genuine remorse then it doesn't run true to me. The poor Alex shtick has gotten old really fast and making him simultaneously the victim and hero of this story while giving Jo and DeLuca no point of view has not endeared him to me this season.

[windsprints]

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Although DeLuca does actually know that Jo is married so it wouldn't be his wisest move.

Yes, getting involved with someone who is married to a person she felt was so dangerous that she needed to change her identity and run from is something a guy who just gotten beaten by her boyfriend would want to do, lol.

Quote

As far as Alex, he did seem affected and distracted when Jo showed up in the clinic, but I don't know what's going on with her. I'm sure she's still angry and confused about everything.

 I'm really disappointed that Jo's POV is being ignored. IMO, it should be a fairly major arc. To bring up domestic violence, a changed identity, a breakup over not telling her secret and Alex beating DeLuca and then nothing seems ridiculous to me. Maybe they are waiting until its outed that she was married but for me the longer they drag it out the less impact its going to have.

I don't see them going with Merlex at this point. Its obvious that Riggs was brought on specifically for Meredith and I think they'll at least give them a go once Maggie finds out. I can't see them turning it into Maggie/Riggs. He's shown zero interest/attraction to Maggie romantically and she'd be one moron to still be interested after finding out he & Meredith kept lying to her and he was never interested in her.

[Chas411]

5 minutes ago, windsprints said:

she'd be one moron to still be interested after finding out he & Meredith kept lying to her and he was never interested in her.

Yet it wouldn't shock me if she still doesn't give up. Girl just doesn't know when to let it go.

Edited October 15, 2016 by Chas411

[Pinecone]

You know, as a fellow romance reader, I find Tina Mitchell's critique is right on the money. The delight of romance is the buildup of the relationship and characters revealing vulnerabilities and growth. Grey's does very little exploration of character and emotion, and that's why it is so frustrating to me as a viewer.

[Rose-1]

28 minutes ago, windsprints said:

 I'm really disappointed that Jo's POV is being ignored. IMO, it should be a fairly major arc. To bring up domestic violence, a changed identity, a breakup over not telling her secret and Alex beating DeLuca and then nothing seems ridiculous to me. Maybe they are waiting until its outed that she was married but for me the longer they drag it out the less impact its going to have.

This reflects my feelings completely, except I'm more than disappointed, I'm raging over it lol. I was so optimistic going into this season, that Jo was finally going to be given a chance to have the development she deserves, and a lot of my hopes lay also on the fact that surely as they are touching on an issue as sensitive as DV, they would do it justice. Yet my biggest worry going in has actually materialised and I don't know whether to laugh or pack the show in. How they have managed to ignore her, and her past, in favour of making this story about Alex and his pity party is starting to really blow my mind.. how are they not showing us her perspectives, and her story?? This should be HER story!! Even if you don't like her, this is a serious issue and if they're going to touch on it, they better be prepared to do it right, and yet so far they're failing MISERABLY. Don't get me wrong, I love Alex and I understood the need to deal with the aftermath of his actions (even if they were way ott), but after that it should have transitioned to Jo, and so far she's in meaningless scenes with no insight into her feelings, as usual.   

Edited October 15, 2016 by Rose-1

[dmc]

22 hours ago, braziliangirl said:

I find the notion of Jo and Delucca together kind of tacky. I don't know if it's because I don't like her but if seems weird to me.

It is tacky

38 minutes ago, windsprints said:

Yes, getting involved with someone who is married to a person she felt was so dangerous that she needed to change her identity and run from is something a guy who just gotten beaten by her boyfriend would want to do, lol.

 I'm really disappointed that Jo's POV is being ignored. IMO, it should be a fairly major arc. To bring up domestic violence, a changed identity, a breakup over not telling her secret and Alex beating DeLuca and then nothing seems ridiculous to me. Maybe they are waiting until its outed that she was married but for me the longer they drag it out the less impact its going to have.

I don't see them going with Merlex at this point. Its obvious that Riggs was brought on specifically for Meredith and I think they'll at least give them a go once Maggie finds out. I can't see them turning it into Maggie/Riggs. He's shown zero interest/attraction to Maggie romantically and she'd be one moron to still be interested after finding out he & Meredith kept lying to her and he was never interested in her.

I think they are still going with it.  The issue is can't be too soon because then the show is basically over

[GSMHvisitor]

21 hours ago, Deanie87 said:

I think this season is starting to fall into the same trap as the last few.  I know it's only 4 episodes in, but the writers are already treading water with the same, stale storylines while other pints of view are missing. Is there anyone here who doesn't know how Meredith, Nathan or Maggie feel about each other? They have had the same conversations for four episodes now.  In the meantime, Maggie has not had one real scene with DeLuca after all of the angst and babbling she inflicted on us last season about him.

And as much as I love the Alex screentime, we have seen "Alex does something stupid and then redeems himself" a hundred times.  He has even done the "everyone misses the diagnosis but Alex" storyline many, many times. I had hoped that we would see him feeling remorse about DeLuca and Jo and actually getting their point of view on things, but I guess not. Once again, I know what Alex is going through and how he feels about it, but have no idea about Jo or what her thoughts are, besides clearly needing a friend, which DeLuca is. I didn't see anything more than two people being awkward together because of a shared traumatic experience.  But I guess it wasn't as traumatic for them as it has been for Alex, which only lessens my sympathy for him despite how well Chambers has been playing him.

On the plus side, Justin Chambers has been looking really, really good.  Him in teal scrubs might be the saving grace of this storyline.

That's absolutely true (especially the bolded part) and it's such a shame. I can never complain too much when actual story- and screentime is given to Alex, but while I liked his story in this episode, I too wish they'd take it into a different direction. Like you've mentioned we have yet to see Alex truly feeling remorse and apologising to DeLuca. And of course Jo's POV should be much, much more prominent.

As for Alex, I would (or would have?) really like to see him being assigned to some sort of counseling or anger management program, which would maybe finally give us some more insight into his character? I know he is the one who ended up getting the bulk of this storyline, but I'm still missing some real insight on how he feels about what he did and how he feels about himself. And while we're at it, we could finally explore why he's never talking to or talking about his family. Or how it was for him to take care of a sick mother and practically raise his siblings. Or how his upbringing ties in with what he did to DeLuca. I think there would be a ton of potential there, but of course none of this will ever be addressed properly, if at all.

2 hours ago, Pinecone said:

You know, as a fellow romance reader, I find Tina Mitchell's critique is right on the money. The delight of romance is the buildup of the relationship and characters revealing vulnerabilities and growth. Grey's does very little exploration of character and emotion, and that's why it is so frustrating to me as a viewer.

Ha, this times ten! Watching Grey's Anatomy this is the single most irritating thing to me personally. I don't know if it has always been this way and I just didn't notice it in the earlier seasons. But in the later half of the series there's definitely a lack of exploration of character and emotion. I feel like everything is always done so superficially. They come up with those huge dramatic plotpoints, like April losing her baby, Meredith losing Derek, Alex punching DeLuca but in the end they never really explore the character's emotions properly and the stories fall flat. We really didn't see much of April's and Jackson's grief in s11, instead they came up with this stupid army story to trash their marriage. Then they tried to patch it up with a centric episode, but it was too little too late for me.

As for Meredith after Derek, to me they completely failed to show her actual grief. We saw plenty of her anger and of course that's part (and often a huge part) of the grieving process too, but they overdid it with Meredith and that's why I had a hard time empathising with her.

I'm holding out some residual hope that Alex's story wasn't simply done for "cheap thrills" and actually shows some real insight and progress with his character, but I'm not counting on it. If nothing else, I hope the show stops treating DeLuca and Jo as pariahs, when they're the actual victims and also give them (especially Jo) some much needed perspective.

[windsprints]

1 hour ago, Rose-1 said:

in favour of making this story about Alex and his pity party is starting to really blow my mind.. how are they not showing us her perspectives, and her story?? This should be HER story

I think it should be "their" story because that's how it began.  It was about Alex & Jo, Jo saying no to Alex's proposal, Jo's secret, their breakup - everything leading up Jo revealing her secret to DeLuca and Alex beating him. IMO the story should have continued along with both perspectives.  I feel like Jo's has been completely dropped and Alex's is just being touched on. I make no secret about Alex  being my favorite, and I'm happy he's getting screen time, but I want both sides and good story. We see Alex upset about being in the clinic but not much else. Alex not showing remorse has been mentioned by many and I agree. Where is it? Additionally, does he even truly regret his actions? Does he realize the anger issues he has at all? Do his friends? Does he care that he and Jo are broken up? Does he still love her? Want to be with her? Where's the worry about the fact that he may go to jail?  

I get there's many characters and all fans have their favorites they want to see but I really wish they'd give this some proper focus and move the story a long. If DeLuca can have rapid healing powers then sure the Seattle courts could magically hurry the court case along.

[GSMHvisitor]

6 minutes ago, windsprints said:

We see Alex upset about being in the clinic but not much else. Alex not showing remorse has been mentioned by many and I agree. Where is it? Additionally, does he even truly regret his actions? Does he realize the anger issues he has at all? Do his friends? Does he care that he and Jo are broken up? Does he still love her? Want to be with her? Where's the worry about the fact that he may go to jail?  

Exactly that! You boiled it down more accurately, but those are the questions I really need to be explored when it comes to Alex.

[windsprints]

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Watching Grey's Anatomy this is the single most irritating thing to me personally. I don't know if it has always been this way and I just didn't notice it in the earlier seasons. But in the later half of the series there's definitely a lack of exploration of character and emotion. I feel like everything is always done so superficially. They come up with those huge dramatic plotpoints, like April losing her baby, Meredith losing Derek, Alex punching DeLuca but in the end they never really explore the character's emotions properly and the stories fall flat. We really didn't see much of April's and Jackson's grief in s11, instead they came up with this stupid army story to trash their marriage. Then they tried to patch it up with a centric episode, but it was too little too late for me.

I think its been this way since around S6 forward but was always there to some degree for characters other than Meredith and Cristina (and now Amelia and Maggie). Even Derek never had storylines with much from his perspective.

[GSMHvisitor]

7 minutes ago, windsprints said:

I think its been this way since around S6 forward but was always there to some degree for characters other than Meredith and Cristina (and now Amelia and Maggie). Even Derek never had storylines with much from his perspective.

Yeah, I think that was around the time it really got bad. I'm still bitter over the fact the only storyline coming out of the hospital shooting was Cristina's PTSD, although Derek and Alex got shot.

[WhosThatGirl]

3 hours ago, windsprints said:

I think it should be "their" story because that's how it began.  It was about Alex & Jo, Jo saying no to Alex's proposal, Jo's secret, their breakup - everything leading up Jo revealing her secret to DeLuca and Alex beating him. IMO the story should have continued along with both perspectives.  I feel like Jo's has been completely dropped and Alex's is just being touched on. I make no secret about Alex  being my favorite, and I'm happy he's getting screen time, but I want both sides and good story. We see Alex upset about being in the clinic but not much else. Alex not showing remorse has been mentioned by many and I agree. Where is it? Additionally, does he even truly regret his actions? Does he realize the anger issues he has at all? Do his friends? Does he care that he and Jo are broken up? Does he still love her? Want to be with her? Where's the worry about the fact that he may go to jail?  

I get there's many characters and all fans have their favorites they want to see but I really wish they'd give this some proper focus and move the story a long. If DeLuca can have rapid healing powers then sure the Seattle courts could magically hurry the court case along.

This. I don't think Alex has any remorse for the situation. And fair note, if he does, we won't really hear it but honestly, I don't think he does. That scene with Arizona last week shows that he doesn't give a damn about DeLuca. As for Jo, I think he does still want to be with her. I think that's the only other thing outside of his job he somewhat cares about, but I do think he doesn't realize he messed up pretty bad- once again, last weeks episode when he thought a "sorry" would fix it, not realizing he said some harsh things and beat up someone.  

As for his friends, I don't know. I don't think Mer does feel any remorse towards the situation because Alex is her BESTIE! she's just cold and indifferent to everyone who isn't Alex, so honestly, she's on Alex's side regardless. Kind of how she was on Callie's side last season just because Callie was her friend. I guess it's the blind spot affection we have for people we love and care about. I feel like everyone else on the show as far as Alex's friends go have remained neutral, we don't hear their perspectives on the situation. And then there's Bailey who is being kind of a bitch to a person who got attacked but I digress, I guess? Really. DeLuca is the only person I like on this show and I'm surprised he's talking to Jo all friendly when she came to see him after he got beaten by her boyfriend to make sure he didn't say anything about her secret and wasn't going to. I am glad he he hasn't blurted it out though to anyone yet.  It's not his secret to tell. 

[timimouse]

I want to throw in my 2 cents to this forum as I like to do every week, but unfortunately, I have nothing new to add. :(

I didn't hate the episode but honestly, nothing is happening. There's not much development of any stories. I think Amelia and Owen got FAR too much screen time this week - they BORE ME TO NO END- and the MRM triangle is being pointlessly dragged on.
I'm all for Jackson and April getting back together but we know it's inevitable so there's no suspense.
Jo just seems to be walking around with a "concerned" look all the time but not doing much else.
I don't think it's fair that DeLuca is allegedly being treated like a leper but we never saw him interact much with others before this. I also don't see why the other residents would treat him differently since they're all on "Team Jo". It makes no sense, if it's true.

I'm just ready for something - ANYTHING- to happen at this point.

[Black Knight]

On 10/14/2016 at 0:51 PM, OtterMommy said:

2 - DIdn't April fire Arizona (or vice versa, I can't remember) as a patient last season?

Arizona fired April, but that's because she realized April was going to be a nightmare with the worrying during her pregnancy. Harriet's been born and is healthy, so AZ would figure it's safe enough to be April's doctor for stuff like the incision. I bet she refuses to ever be Harriet's doctor though.

I wouldn't mind Jo and DeLuca getting together. And I'm happy for Jackson and April having a more humorous storyline after all the drama they've had starting with the death of their first child.

[Tiger]

I dont know if Im seeing things that just arent there, or if its just the Deluca actor or what, but all season I thought they were buulding to reveal he is gay, especially given the mysterious dumping of Maggie and then fighting off Jo in the finale.  But then in this weeks episode, the actor was playing it as if Deluca has feelings for Arizona, and then the sandwhich scene with Jo.   The whole thing is odd.

On 10/15/2016 at 1:34 AM, flickers said:

This was the first episode I saw a legit possibility of the show pairing up Meredith and Alex. Maybe, also, because the Jo/Deluca vibes were strong. I'm not a Jolex hater, but they've been given so little since S10 that it's hard to root for them finding their way back to each other. Alex barely seems to miss Jo at all. If Shonda is cottoning on to the fact that MerRiggs is seriously lacking in the chemistry department, I think they'll go there.

As I said two weeks ago, Ive been seeing MerLex signs for a while, but for me the closing voiceover and the way Ellen played the last scene, particularly the way Meredith was looking at Alex, were two huge neon signs flashing "MerLex is coming".  

I dunno, maybe Im just seeing all kinda of things that just arent there.

[Chas411]

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MerLex is coming".  

Shudder

I do think it's a possibility I just don't know if I could see it happening yet. While it could please some fans it could also gross out just as many. Especially since this is mostly just a reaction to Derek being gone. 

[calipiano81]

19 hours ago, Black Knight said:

I wouldn't mind Jo and DeLuca getting together. And I'm happy for Jackson and April having a more humorous storyline after all the drama they've had starting with the death of their first child.

Same for me on both counts.

Having shared this unfortunate incident & DeLuca being the only one who knows about Jo's secret husband, I can totally see them bonding. And even though I was a Jolex supporter, I think a Jo/DeLuca pairing could be more lighthearted and less angsty, and it may finally get Alex to show some regret over damaging something other than his career.

[Black Knight]

2 hours ago, Tiger said:

I dont know if Im seeing things that just arent there, or if its just the Deluca actor or what, but all season I thought they were buulding to reveal he is gay, especially given the mysterious dumping of Maggie and then fighting off Jo in the finale.  But then in this weeks episode, the actor was playing it as if Deluca has feelings for Arizona

I don't think the actor meant it to come off that way. Arizona is simply the only person besides Jo (and Jo has been spotty) to show any care for him, and he's touched and grateful. He knows Arizona is gay gay gay gay gay [/Ivy Lynn, Smash], so that would be a total dead-end for him, as well as the writers. What kind of story could come out of that? And I didn't think his dumping of Maggie was mysterious - given the way she handled their relationship, I was only surprised he didn't dump her earlier. Nor was he "fighting off" Jo. In the first place, she wasn't coming on to him. She was just so drunk she was trying to take off her clothes and he knew that's not something she would do if she were sober, that she would be mortified later, so he tried to stop it. He was just being a gentleman rather than take advantage of her impaired state to get a look at her naked.

[Chas411]

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 didn't think his dumping of Maggie was mysterious 

Looking back though it was such a blatant plot development to free both characters into third wheeling for Meredith/Nathan and Jo/Alex storylines. Both storylines that could have been done without the addition of a third party. 

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎10‎/‎15‎/‎2016 at 10:38 AM, Rose-1 said:

This reflects my feelings completely, except I'm more than disappointed, I'm raging over it lol. I was so optimistic going into this season, that Jo was finally going to be given a chance to have the development she deserves, and a lot of my hopes lay also on the fact that surely as they are touching on an issue as sensitive as DV, they would do it justice.*** Yet my biggest worry going in has actually materialised and I don't know whether to laugh or pack the show in. How they have managed to ignore her, and her past, in favour of making this story about Alex and his pity party is starting to really blow my mind.. how are they not showing us her perspectives, and her story?? This should be HER story!! Even if you don't like her, this is a serious issue and if they're going to touch on it, they better be prepared to do it right, and yet so far they're failing MISERABLY. Don't get me wrong, I love Alex and I understood the need to deal with the aftermath of his actions (even if they were way ott), but after that it should have transitioned to Jo, and so far she's in meaningless scenes with no insight into her feelings, as usual.   

***I think the difficult part is they've given Jo a violent SL of her own.  She almost beat her boyfriend to death and let Alex take responsibility for a short while.  And I don't believe she ever received any punishment.  It's awkward to just let that drop, and then expect Jo to act outraged at Alex's violence in a believable way.  Violent Jo was so promising since that topic is rarely covered in TV land. 

The problem is, Alex's victim is a minor character that the vast majority of the audience has little investment in.  DeLuca has little to no connection with any of the show characters.  So while I care in principle, I'm not overly interested in DeLuca's story. 

Add to that - Alex's violence put a period (hopefully) to a relationship with Jo that most (at least here) disliked, or were neutral on.  Which is another reason to not get fired up about this SL.

And finally, Alex was and will always be part of the original MAGIC.  His character has been with us forever, whereas Jo is only a few years old and DeLuca may as well be a walk on.  And while many are seeing Alex with no remorse and lack of concern regarding his actions, I'm seeing something more.  JC is a superior actor to the other two actors, and can make me feel for him even when I want to scold him.  Jo is still a bit of a cypher, and DeLuca barely registers.

[Joana]

The other two barely get any meaningful screen time, so they may as well be Anthony Hopkins and Meryl Streep and yet their acting skills would have hardly registered. 

Edited October 17, 2016 by Joana

[Deanie87]

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***I think the difficult part is they've given Jo a violent SL of her own.  She almost beat her boyfriend to death and let Alex take responsibility for a short while.  And I don't believe she ever received any punishment.  It's awkward to just let that drop, and then expect Jo to act outraged at Alex's violence in a believable way.  Violent Jo was so promising since that topic is rarely covered in TV land. 

But really, that just isn't what happened.  Like with the DeLuca situation, Alex rushed out to confront Jason without getting all of the facts.  Jo didn't know at the time that Alex was taking the blame for it (Meredith and Cristina just assumed that Alex was at fault).  It's not even clear that Jo knows what Alex said to Jason when he blackmailed him.  It turned out to be more complicated than Jo just beating up her boyfriend and being a violent psychopath.  He grabbed her violently, she freaked out based on her prior experience (which they alluded to at the time) and then they fought, both said it was self-defense.  Jason was part of that violent confrontation and Jo did have a black eye and a split lip, so he wasn't just a passive bystander.  That to me is different than Alex barging in and beating up DeLuca who literally did not one thing wrong.  Jo watched him do it and when she tried to clear everything up, Alex accused her of sleeping with him in their bed and then insulted her by throwing her past in her face, the thing that would hurt her the most.  I don't blame Jo for Alex's actions (back then or now) and I don't blame her for still being pissed at him.   For me, the two situations aren't the same.  I get being more attached to Alex than Jo (believe me, I get it), but that doesn't change the fact that Jo didn't put Alex in his current situation and it doesn't change the fact that Jo didn't just beat the shit out of Jason based on jumping to the wrong conclusion.  And given that they both have this history with violence and domestic violence, I would love to see them finally come to terms with their past and see if there is a way for them both to move forward together eventually, given how much they have in common and given what they have both had to overcome.  That is MUCH more interesting to me than Alex being Mer's Derek or Cristina stand-in, or any kind of insta-romance between Jo and DeLuca.

Unfortunately, the writers seem to be in no hurry to get to Jo's side of the story or give her any kind of real context for her behavior.  But, if they choose to, I think that they can turn it around.  They did it with April, they did it with Arizona, they did it with Lexie, they did it with Alex and they can do it with Jo.  All of those characters were completely hated when they first came on (or cheated in Arizona's case) and the writers were able to turn it around.  They just need to actually give her a storyline, screentime and a point of view that is clear and makes sense. They are going to look so bad if they start talking about assaults on women and domestic violence and then do absolutely nothing with it, or even worse, making it about Alex.  I just hope that if that is what happens, then the entertainment reporters can take a break from pining for Mer/Alex and proclaiming that every single guest star will be AZ's new love interest, to actually call them out on it.

Edited October 17, 2016 by Deanie87

[Chas411]

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The other two barely get any meaningful screen time, so they may as well be Anthony Hopkins and Meryl Streep and yet their acting skills would have hardly registered. 

This! 

I think Chambers is a great actor but it's really to elevate material when the writing is there for you. With Jo and DeLuca it's just not. Whether this is down to Shonda, the writers or whoever it's very clear that absolutely no thought is being put into Jo or DeLuca. It's easy to support Alex when the storyline is all about his sad woobie man pain of how he messed up (note: only his career though as he clearly doesn't care about hurting DeLuca) and how he knows he screwed up but can't seem to catch a break and fix it. Hes become the Gary Stu of his own storyline. It's easy to not care about DeLuca and blame everything on Jo when the writing isn't supporting them. I can't blame the actors though. As already said I don't think even the bet of actors can shine when they get basically no lines at all. 

We're getting the same scene repeatedly of Mer/Riggs/Maggie triangle hijinks, Owen wants a baby from *insert love interest*, April overreacts about something and Jackson reacts to her overreaction, Mer and Alex Are.Each.Others.Person!!!!!. Yet we can't get a few scenes where Jo or DeLuca are integrated with the cast and give their thoughts on how they're feeling. And I don't mean a quick 20 second throwaway scene. I mean something with a bit of substance.

[Rose-1]

58 minutes ago, Chas411 said:

We're getting the same scene repeatedly of Mer/Riggs/Maggie triangle hijinks, Owen wants a baby from *insert love interest*, April overreacts about something and Jackson reacts to her overreaction, Mer and Alex Are.Each.Others.Person!!!!!.

Argh this site just deleted my whole typed comment, so annoying!! Lol just had to comment on this, the best summarisation I've read, HILARIOUS!!

i agree with you and Deanie, the actors can only work with the material they're given - it's 100% the writing that I have an issue with. I agree that the Jason situation is completely different, given that it was reactionary to him hitting her, and primarily in self defence. They just can't be compared.  I also agree that it can be turned around like they did with April and Maggie on her entrance, but it needs to be NOW, and not just throwing her in as cliff hanger bait like usual! I can't believe how they're ignoring Jo's perspective in this, but surely they won't get away with minimising the woman's POV in domestic violence??? Especially on a show that prides itself on the portrayal of strong woman? I'm hanging on by a thread as it is, but so far, I'm so pissed at the execution, and not at all surprised. These issues and the character deserve better!

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

The Couples On Grey's Anatomy Could Benefit From Romance-Novel Plotting in Their Lives

Tina is not a crackpot. She just believes a little bosom-heaving and bodice-ripping could make even the sad love triangle work.

[Readalot]

Yes it's true. We never put intestinal issues, dislocated shoulders, dehydration and dizziness together. Neither did numerous ER visits to one of the top Children's Hospitals.  My daughter was "diagnosed" with anxiety and being hormonal, and being dramatic.  We were looked on as bad parents when the drs told us her 10 year old shoulder looked like a 40 year old pro tennis player (she was a softball catcher at the time). When in ER she took three bags of fluid and It wasnt registering in her bladder I think the drs thought we were withholding liquids from her. It wasn't till I insisted with her Ped for a MRI did they find her Chiari(a brain malformation). It wasn't till I did research and insisted on a Tilt Table test was she diagnosed with POTS. It wasn't until taking to her friend's mom, a PT did I learn of EDS. I googled it and fell to my knees. Finally an answer, her cleft palate, intestinal issues (we tried EVERYTHING), aversion to anestesthia, dizziness, easily dislocatable joints, etc etc etc came together (and my health history too). Many EDS patients have a Chiari and have POTS. Type 3, which she has, does not have a genetic test yet. Grateful for the EDS awareness on this episode!  The misinterpreted ER visits were true to life for us and other EDS sufferers too.   I don't think they mentioned it but EDS is defective collegen. Collegen is the glue that holds our body together so every organ can be affective. I don't think it's as rare as people think, I think it's just under diagnosed.