S03.E04: Cupid Kills

[Tara Ariano]

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Lucious takes notice as things heat up between Cookie and Angelo; Jamal makes a big first step on his journey to recovery when he's finally able to face Freda Gatz; Anika causes turmoil upon her return to work at Empire; and Hakeem develops feelings for Nessa, even though she seems to have eyes for a different Lyon.

[wanderingstar]

The way Lucious uses people against themselves is just diabolical. First Andre, then Jamal. Someone's got to take him down.

I can see Andre having a rebound situtation with Nessa. He seems to be genuinely looking out for her, but there's also clearly an attraction. I don't see that ending well for either of them - not while Shyne is around.

I guess we now know just how dependent Andre was on Rhonda. She even has to tell him from the grave who to sleep with. Yikes.

Great seeing Tiana again! And I loved her new song.

Becky needs to leave Empire - as much as it pains me to say it. Maybe if she goes to another label, the Lyons will finally appreciate all she did for them and their label.

[SimoneS]

This show is so freaking wild. I love it, Andre having a threesome with Vanessa and dead Rhonda.

To my surprise I like Angelo. He and Cookie have chemistry. I loved Cookie at the opera and how she integrated with Tiana's new song. I did an Internet search and found out that the opera singer is Lauren Michelle who is famous internationally and went to school with Jussie.

Jamal needs to have sex with that guy, not take pills and drink alcohol. I was glad that he helped Freida get out even it was scam. They need to start making music together again.

And because it has to be said every week Why is Lucious so damn evil? He just cannot help himself.

[ZaldamoWilder]

I'm a little burnt on Cookie's behalf.  Yes she was out of her depth but what kind of man doesn't mention that the event you're attending is a black tie fundraiser?   I know the idea is for her to stand out, but that's gonna happen by default, I don't need to see her be humiliated to get the inference.   ::stagesigh::  ah Lee. Jack & Jill and Oak Bluffs are a little too on the nose bruh.

Hakeem got played out and I liked it.  But Shyne is a homicidal psychopath so I'm unclear as to how they're still bothering to deal with him.

{{conference room window tap}} "I knew'd it."   Lol!!  love.  I'd use it on a conference call if I was sure nobody would take it seriously.

Meetings with knocked out fronts and Saturday night specials though?  I'm intrigued.

How do we feel about the hiphopera?

Dear wardrobe department, Taraji doesn't deserve this.

The salt n' pepa bi level asymetrical shag jawn from 1985 made me smile.

Ya'll? your boy just church patted Lucious' arm.  Good as gone. 

It's dumb but I was waiting for Jamal and his ptsd therapist to uh dot dot dot.

Ohmydays, it just occurred to me why Lucious is so familiar - he's black J.R. Ewing.

[mtlchick]

So Hakeem tries to impress Nessa by rolling in a dead pig.  Then he's dumb enough to right down a figure for Shine that he shows LIVE on the web stream.  I had to yell "Hakeem you idiot!" while laughing.  

"I actually have summered in  Connecticut at the (prison.)"  Cookie's entire time at the opera was AWESOME.  Awkward for her, but I loved it. 

Every time that Jamal tries to fight his way out of "being a Lyon" he does something that proves that he's a Lyon all the way through. I think he's topped himself tonight and that's not good. 

And then we end with Dre having a ghost 3 way.   Oh show.  You continue to confound me is new ways.  

See you guys back in a month (give or take.) 

[SimoneS]

How do I survive a month without Empire? Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

2 minutes ago, mtlchick said:

Every time that Jamal tries to fight his way out of "being a Lyon" he does something that proves that he's a Lyon all the way through. I think he's topped himself tonight and that's not good. 

I have always said that Jamal is the most like Lucious. He cannot help himself. When he wants something, he will do anything with barely a second thought. 

[Dee]

I. Love. This. Show.

[wanderingstar]

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I have always said that Jamal is the most like Lucious. He cannot help himself. When he wants something, he will do anything with barely a second thought. 

So true. I still remember him hanging Billy Barretti over that balcony.

[GreekGeek]

I expected Nessa and Andre to get together, but did not expect the three way with Ghost Rhonda. I think Ghost Rhonda is wearing out her welcome; time to call a good exorcist. I hope Shyne and crew do not kill Andre.

Why was Lucious so glad that Freda was released? Establishing her as mentally unstable may assure that no one will believe he killed her dad, but it also gives her a perfect defense if she wants to try killing him again (this time without pesky bystanders taking the bullet for him). 

I hope Angelo and Cookie get together. Someone needs to get rid of Lucious's smug conviction that she will always return to him.

[wanderingstar]

I am really loving the addition of Sierra McClain as Nessa. Hope they flesh out her character more.

[luckyroll3]

3 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

I'm a little burnt on Cookie's behalf.  Yes she was out of her depth but what kind of man doesn't mention that the event you're attending is a black tie fundraiser? 

That MF-er didn't even have the decency to tell Cookie to wear something white.  What an asshole.

Has any soap opera done a ghost threesome in the past, or was this new territory?  All I can say is lawd a'mercy, cause when Andre licked Nessa's neck, my entire body went weak and I almost slipped right out of the chair.  Woo, that man is fine!

[Dee]

I'm loving Empire's female characters exerting their considerable agency and individually stepping into their respective power this season.

I'm also loving the reflective tone taken with many of the male characters without stripping them of their personalities.

Most of all, I'm beyond happy the show is doubling down on what made it a hit, because the end results have been pretty great.

[NowVoyager]

This episode gave me LIFE!

They took it low with the existential three-some & they took it high with the nouveau Marian Anderson---

This took me back to the good ole Dallas, Dynasty, Knots Landing days--- with a sprinkle of Pretty Woman thrown in! Loved every minute of it....

But, wait. WHAT?!? 

We gotta wait how long for another episode?!? Behind some baseball?!?!? Lawdhavemercy!!!

[Happytobehere]

8 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

I'm a little burnt on Cookie's behalf.  Yes she was out of her depth but what kind of man doesn't mention that the event you're attending is a black tie fundraiser?   I know the idea is for her to stand out, but that's gonna happen by default, I don't need to see her be humiliated to get the inference.   ::stagesigh::  ah Lee. Jack & Jill and Oak Bluffs are a little too on the nose bruh.

 Ohmydays, it just occurred to me why Lucious is so familiar - he's black J.R. Ewing.

This is why I'm not feeling this character, aside from the Taye Diggs factor, he intentionally allowed Cookie to dress and feel inappropriate for the occasion.  No matter how much he smiles and says otherwise, this lets me know there is something sneaky and duplicitous about him.  I say he can't be trusted and will continue to feel this way until I see consistent and credible proof to the contrary.

Yes, Lucifer is  reminiscent of JR Ewing and we need to honor that with a who shot Lucifer mystery.

I hope Jamal doesn't just take Lucifer's word about Freda without proof, he knows what a lying, manipulative, sleaze his father is.

Andre and Nessa will not end well.  Loved him beating down Shine, thugs like that are always big and bad when it comes to sneak attacks and hitting women, but they can rarely stand toe to toe with a man, as we saw when he went for the weapon and his plan to come thugged up and gunned up.

Can Rhonda's ghost be laid to rest? Perhaps if they buried her, she would stop popping up.  Andre seemed sane and rational the entire episode until she reared her dead head.

Hakeem is truly stupid, and now the world knows it.  I see a whole lot of being played for a sucker coming his way.

Becky needs to bounce, not only was she not given the job, a white, racist was hired instead of her.  Know and show your worth girl and walk away with your man.

Young Lucious is as awful a rapper as TH's Lucious, so that was solid casting.

I find that the episodes I like best are the episodes that feature Boo Boo Kitty the least.

[Happytobehere]

9 hours ago, SimoneS said:

How do I survive a month without Empire? Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

I have always said that Jamal is the most like Lucious. He cannot help himself. When he wants something, he will do anything with barely a second thought. 

I know right.  I would rather they just started the show in November and let it run straight from that point.

I agree, about Jamal and in many ways, Hakeem is the most like Cookie (except he is straight stupid based on being raised by Lucious).  This is why I have always felt that Cookie favored Jamal (the homophobic hatred from Lucious served to amplify that closeness) and Lucious favored Hakeem.  The show tried to give us the Andre is mentally ill and Jamal is gay edit; and those things undoubtedly played a part, but at the root of it, Hakeem reminds Lucious of Cookie, so he got the favored treatment. Now I still think part of that favored status is rooted in guilt because IMO Lucious was the one who set Cookie up to go to jail.

[SimoneS]

22 minutes ago, Happytobehere said:

This is why I'm not feeling this character, aside from the Taye Diggs factor, he intentionally allowed Cookie to dress and feel inappropriate for the occasion.  No matter how much he smiles and says otherwise, this lets me know there is something sneaky and duplicitous about him.  I say he can't be trusted and will continue to feel this way until I see consistent and credible proof to the contrary.

For now, I don't agree about Angelo. Until Cookie showed up, I don't think that he realized that she didn't know how to dress for the occasion. Plus, Cookie is savvy. I would have thought she would have done some research or have Porsha or Becky do it.

I liked how Angelo wasn't embarrassed by her sexy red outfit which he viewed as hot. He introduced her to his "friends" without blinking an eye and when she told them about being in prison, he smiled and was all into it because he is all into her. I also liked that he went to Jamal to get advice about how to win Cookie and that he helped Freida (maybe this is why I have a soft spot for him). I don't think that either he or Cookie belong in each other's world, but maybe that is why he disconcerts Lucious and will be able to out maneuver him. I am interested in what happens next.

[Dee]

I've always viewed Hakeem as Cookie's child with Lucious worst tendencies, Jamal as Lucious child with Cookie's best tendencies, and Andre (when he's not fighting against his roots) as a delicate mix of the two.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Dee

[MyAimIsTrue]

Great inside nod (at least that's what I assume it was) to Taye Diggs with the opera singer performing something from "La Boheme" since that's what "Rent" was based on.

[SimoneS]

I forgot to mention that I thought that the flashback of Cookie with her father was so sad. He had so many hopes and dreams for her future. Instead she hooks up with Lucious and all of that is gone.

[MyAimIsTrue]

4 hours ago, NowVoyager said:

We gotta wait how long for another episode?!? Behind some baseball?!?!? Lawdhavemercy!!!

I am a baseball fanatic.  Seriously, it's pretty much what I live for so I'm loving the post season play thus far but "Empire" is on a roll and I hope the break doesn't kill its mojo.

[wanderingstar]

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Yes, Lucifer is  reminiscent of JR Ewing and we need to honor that with a who shot Lucifer mystery.

I know, I know! I've only been craving this since season 1. Don't let me down, show!

ETA: I loved in the flashback hearing Cookie's father call Lucious "Lucifer Lyons." Totally accurate description.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Gillian Rosh

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, Happytobehere said:

This is why I'm not feeling this character, aside from the Taye Diggs factor, he intentionally allowed Cookie to dress and feel inappropriate for the occasion.  No matter how much he smiles and says otherwise, this lets me know there is something sneaky and duplicitous about him.  I say he can't be trusted and will continue to feel this way until I see consistent and credible proof to the contrary.

I agree, and that's why Lucious mentioned that Angelo wants to run for mayor or something; I think he's using Cookie for some reason.

I have a feeling Nessa will kill Shyne, I want someone to get rid of his ignorant ass; he reminds me of another ignorant ass, Cheese from The Wire.

[Primetimer]

La Bohème (and Antonio) get Cookie's juices flowing.

View the full article

[Sheenieb]

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I'm a little burnt on Cookie's behalf.  Yes she was out of her depth but what kind of man doesn't mention that the event you're attending is a black tie fundraiser?   I know the idea is for her to stand out, but that's gonna happen by default, I don't need to see her be humiliated to get the inference.   ::stagesigh::  ah Lee. Jack & Jill and Oak Bluffs are a little too on the nose bruh.

Yeah, word. Who conveniently forgets to tell someone that an event is formal? He had her out there in club wear. I'm keeping my eye on Angelo. Right now, Cookie seems like a fetish. He's obviously never dated a woman like her before, so he's showing her off to his circle in a "see, I'm not THAT bougie," way. He may like her, but the true test will come later on if she's with him during his run for mayor. 

I wasn't feeling how Cookie's dad put down his other daughters. It makes me bristle when parents compare their kids.

[Biggie B]

As a hard-core Mets fan, the best line of the episode for me was from Lucious, after whacking Shine in the knees: "I knew that $250,000 I paid for A-Rod's bat would finally pay off."

I really felt bad for Freda getting beaten up so badly. That was awful to see her eye like that.

Jamal - put down the pills and the booze, or at least don't mix them!! Argh!

The ménage à trois was very, very weird.

[Dee]

I loved that Cookie was so genuinely moved by the aria. It was a nice callback to her insistence that music, in whatever form, is her ultimate muse.

I feel really badly for Hakeem. He's really trying hard to step up but can't win for losing. With his dad preoccupied with getting the streaming service off the ground and his mom busy putting out all the unnecessary fires his father sets, he's getting lost in the cracks. I hope he doesn't regress back to partying all the time because his hard won maturity was a good look on him.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Dee

[wanderingstar]

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Right now, Cookie seems like a fetish. 

Yeah - it's starting to seem that way to me too, so I'm also waiting and seeing on this Angelo character.

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I loved that Cookie was so genuinely moved by the aria.

Me too! And I especially loved how she later incorporated it into Tiana's song.

[pbutler111]

I was so excited to see Chicago's Lyric Opera House in tonight's show! My husband has had season tickets -- third row -- since the 70s, and we had our first date there back in the 80s. It's a place I feel I know as well as my own home, so I was thrilled to see them walk through those doors. They even used the opera house's bathroom to film that scene, which sort of surprised me (I'd imagine that would've been more easily done on a set). I think whosit was an asshole for not telling Cookie where she was going so she could have dressed appropriately, and it rang false to me that Cookie would act quite so "fish out of water" on this occasion (I haven't noticed her having that much trouble being elegant and refined before), but the location was definitely a thrill for me. I wish they'd just set this show in Chicago rather than shooting in Chicago and pretending it's New York.

[wanderingstar]

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I wish they'd just set this show in Chicago rather than shooting in Chicago and pretending it's New York.

For me, it makes it more fun to try to figure out which part of Chicago they're using to imitate New York*. Like the exterior of the Empire offices, which I always assume is the high-rise office building on Madison and Wasbash.

 

*I just moved back to the East Coast after 9 years in Chicago, so seeing little bits of my former city on this show is heartening for me.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Gillian Rosh

[Landlord]

First mention is Andre's expression when they were sitting in the car en route to meet Nessa and Shyne. He looks genuinely in pain and suffering. Great acting, there, I believed it. 

Tiana's song. WTF was that? I absolutely loved the opera part, but Tiana just fell so flat for me. It was almost painful to watch. 

Absolutely loved Cookie's reacting during the opera. I expected no less of her. I hope Angelo has a tough, thick skin, because Cookie's not your average socialite, and with Lucious lurking around, it's not going to be easy for him at all to keep courting Cookie. 

Oh. Loved the reference to S1's song "like my daddy". I still wish Jamal would have the balls to go off on his father. 

13 hours ago, GreekGeek said:

I expected Nessa and Andre to get together, but did not expect the three way with Ghost Rhonda. I think Ghost Rhonda is wearing out her welcome; time to call a good exorcist. I hope Shyne and crew do not kill Andre.

My theory is Nessa dies too, from a stray bullet. She and Andre are just getting it on too fast and too well. That, or when (as seen in the previews) Shyne gets into Andre's kitchen, Nessa hits him behind the head with something hard/pointy and KILLS HIM!

[TobinAlbers]

4 hours ago, Dee said:

I've always viewed Hakeem as Cookie's child with Lucious worst tendencies, Jamal as Lucious child with Cookie's best tendencies, and Andre (when he's not fighting against his roots) as a delicate mix of the two.

That's a great assessment. Andre was also pretty insightful when he told Nessa that if he'd had her musical talent he'd be running Empire. That might not be entirely true, but that's always been the thing missing as far as Lucious has been concerned. Super talented Andre + Super business smarts Andre music business would be a powerful mogul.

Another way to interpret what Andre was saying is that if he had Nessa's talent, i.e. Nessa herself on his side, they could be a power couple at Empire.

But dang, I miss Rhonda and her and Andre as the scrappy balls out couple they were in S1.

[Dee]

I hope we get to see more from Empire's other artists this season.

The company has a considerable roster of established stars (Elle, Vee, Titan, Royal-T, Michelle, Valentina, Delphine) in addition to Tiana, Jamal, Hakeem and Nessa, who also deserve some shine.

[Neurochick]

1 hour ago, pbutler111 said:

I wish they'd just set this show in Chicago rather than shooting in Chicago and pretending it's New York.

I agree.  I don't know why since the show is supposed to be in NYC, they don't film in NYC, so silly.  Since they film in Chicago, then have the show set in Chicago; what is the big deal?

Edited October 13, 2016 by Neurochick

[AV8n]

Dayum! Rhonda showed Patrick Swayze (RIP) how ghost sex is supposed to work. Forget pottery and get freaky!

Still taking bets on whether Jamal's PTSD counselor will end up being a love interest. Freda was a good platonic relationship, but that's probably soured now. Alicia Keys couldn't pray away the gay, but did move his Kinsey scale a notch to the left. He's due for some happiness, but needs to beat the painkiller addiction first. Not sure how this guy fits into that.

[withanaich]

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I think whosit was an asshole for not telling Cookie where she was going so she could have dressed appropriately, and it rang false to me that Cookie would act quite so "fish out of water" on this occasion (I haven't noticed her having that much trouble being elegant and refined before)

Agreed. That was very weird, and very unnecessary. Tacky of Angelo and contrived of the writers to not just have him say, "Would you like to go to this black-tie event with me?" Also, Cookie isn't straight from the streets, despite her prison stint and longtime involvement with Lucious. She has home training. We've seen evidence of that in this very episode, courtesy of the flashbacks with her father. She knows how to dress and behave at a fancy event. We've seen her dressed up at a fancy event before. I do believe that she was acting like a "fish out of water" because she was uncomfortable and embarrassed and lashing out, but this whole Pretty Woman thing was completely unnecessary.

[ZaldamoWilder]

16 hours ago, luckyroll3 said:

That MF-er didn't even have the decency to tell Cookie to wear something white.  What an asshole.

Has any soap opera done a ghost threesome in the past, or was this new territory?  All I can say is lawd a'mercy, cause when Andre licked Nessa's neck, my entire body went weak and I almost slipped right out of the chair.  Woo, that man is fine!

Gul?   Burn'Tuh.   Everybody in some kind of creamy champagne and you got me in here looking fucked up like we're going to the Shadow.  Maybe he's actually supposed to be loathsome.   With good vs. evil it's easy to root for whoever Lucious' foil is but if he's also a shady bastard playing nice to get what he wants......::twirlsstache::    hmmm.

Did not enjoy that part at all.  And I would've liked to too but I'm gonna need hologram Rhonda to stay all the way out of Dre's love life.    Also, they don't make mourning periods 1/2 as long as they used to huh?  

13 hours ago, NowVoyager said:

But, wait. WHAT?!? 

We gotta wait how long for another episode?!? Behind some baseball?!?!? Lawdhavemercy!!!

Edited October 13, 2016 by ZaldamoWilder
to and too mean two different things

[worleybird]

Nice to see Samuel Hunt who played Mouse for about 1.5 years on Chicago P.D. and also played psycho-Andrew on Days of Our Lives back in 2012 get another acting job as Xavier.

[MyAimIsTrue]

Something to ponder about the threesome scene.  If Rhonda is a ghost why did we see her reflection in the window?

[Landlord]

18 minutes ago, MyAimIsTrue said:

Something to ponder about the threesome scene.  If Rhonda is a ghost why did we see her reflection in the window?

True, I noticed, but I guess didn't really caught on to it.

[luckyroll3]

2 hours ago, MyAimIsTrue said:

Something to ponder about the threesome scene.  If Rhonda is a ghost why did we see her reflection in the window?

Why are we trying to make sense out of the ghost threesome?  Lol!

[phoenics]

20 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

I'm a little burnt on Cookie's behalf.  Yes she was out of her depth but what kind of man doesn't mention that the event you're attending is a black tie fundraiser?   I know the idea is for her to stand out, but that's gonna happen by default, I don't need to see her be humiliated to get the inference.

Yeah - that bothered the mess out of me.  I don't know why he didn't tell her it was a black tie event.  It feels like he's working through some childhood "I shoulda married that round the way girl" stuff like Cookie seems to.  But he's doing stuff that actually humiliating people.  He gets a kick out of it - but he manipulated that situation in order to cause a stir, whereas if Cookie knew the attire, she would have dressed for it.  Not fair.  That felt off to me - like when Donald Trump makes the assumption that all black folks are poor and live in the hood.  It felt like Angelo assumed Cookie wouldn't know how to dress for an event like that or something.  Or he wanted her to stand out.

Poor Cookie - I felt her pain.

 

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   ::stagesigh::  ah Lee. Jack & Jill and Oak Bluffs are a little too on the nose bruh.

 

Yeah - I disliked that because I kinda felt called out, lol.  I'm Jack & Jill legacy and my friends and I vacation in Martha's Vineyard - though we moved on up from Oak Bluffs into Edgartown in recent trips, lol.  But we're nice people!  

Andre having a threesome with Nessa and his dead wife - what the hell, lol.

[phoenics]

One more thing - I really liked Andre and Nessa - I would love to see them team up - but the whole Rhonda thing doesn't bode well for Andre and Nessa.  Together they would be a really powerful pair.

Oh well.

[Empress1]

23 hours ago, ZaldamoWilder said:

I'm a little burnt on Cookie's behalf.  Yes she was out of her depth but what kind of man doesn't mention that the event you're attending is a black tie fundraiser?   I know the idea is for her to stand out, but that's gonna happen by default, I don't need to see her be humiliated to get the inference.   ::stagesigh::  ah Lee. Jack & Jill and Oak Bluffs are a little too on the nose bruh.

I felt a way about this too, and I'd have been PISSED if I were Cookie. She looked amazing (I wish I were brave enough to wear that makeup) but let her look amazing in black tie and the appropriate color, damn.

The ghost threesome was a little much. I remember Rhonda and Andre were kind of freaky, but yeesh. And didn't he JUST put Rhonda in the ground? Although sex is a common response to death so I can let that go.

Terrence's hair looks like shit. The color is too dark and his perm is raggedy. Get it together, Terrence.

Becky definitely needs to leave Empire. "How dare you not do the job I didn't hire you to do" is not good management.

[buttersister]

What is it about wearing a red dress to the opera that turns you into an opera lover?

[pbutler111]

  12 hours ago, pbutler111 said:

I wish they'd just set this show in Chicago rather than shooting in Chicago and pretending it's New York.

I agree.  I don't know why since the show is supposed to be in NYC, they don't film in NYC, so silly.  Since they film in Chicago, then have the show set in Chicago; what is the big deal?

Maybe they think we don't have black folks in Chicago?

[Syndicate]

See, if this show was a TRUE soap opera, Angelo would be a DL brother being surprisingly tempted into getting it on with Jamal. Their little interaction in scenes with one another in this episode would've been more than enough to make it work. It would work for drama's sake since Jamal has seemed to be Cookie's most adored son. So her most adored son fucking his mama's new man? OUCH! That being said, Jamal seems to be on his way to hotness with that OTHER gorgeous man who advised him not to go about popping pills.

Edited October 14, 2016 by Syndicate

[Jezebel97]

8 hours ago, buttersister said:

What is it about wearing a red dress to the opera that turns you into an opera lover?

where was the diamond necklace though ;P

[Neurochick]

8 hours ago, Syndicate said:

See, if this show was a TRUE soap opera, Angelo would be a DL brother being surprisingly tempted into getting it on with Jamal.

I can't stand that term "DL brother," as if men of other races don't do that.  LOL, in reality men of ALL races do it.

[bichonblitz]

On 10/11/2016 at 10:32 AM, Tara Ariano said:

Anika causes turmoil upon her return to work at Empire;

Ok, wth? Did I FF through any Anika scenes because I swear I didn't see her at all this episode. Maybe I need to watch again when I'm fully awake. 

[Empress1]

Nope, she wasn't there. I didn't miss her.