Amanda Knox (Netflix)

[Primetimer]

Years in the making, the Netflix documentary looks at accusations against Knox, and their aftermath. Could it have looked harder?

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[ShellSeeker]

I did not know about the cartwheels and splits at the police station. That's....interesting.

[Margherita Erdman]

I hesitate to post this comment but the PTV community is such a good and curious one that I feel like it's worth putting out there —

While I totally agree that there is much about Amanda Knox's behavior and personal presentation that is unsettling, I cringe whenever I see anyone make the leap to "psychopath" or even just "weirdo" if not actually suspected guilty because of her strange reactions to the crime and inability to cope with her situation as we might expect an intelligent, educated middle-class American college student to do...

As the parent of a kid with autism who has now spent years around all kinds of people on the spectrum, I really think the best explanation for Amanda Knox's unusual affect and the rabbit hole she fell into is that she is on the autistic spectrum or has autistic traits (however you want to put it). Women and girls especially, with high-functioning autism and/or what used to be called Asperger's, can go undiagnosed their whole lives, because the signs can be so subtle. But an off-putting manner, atypical stress reactions (cartwheels in the police station), chaotic reactions to being challenged by authority, difficulty reading social cues, sensory overload (running away from the blood and shit she found in the bathroom and focusing on her own revulsion at it instead of thinking of what it potentially meant for Meredith), the failure to discriminate between important big things and minor details, or to anticipate future consequences — these are all hallmarks of an autistic brain. They don't mean she's a psychopath, Satanist, nymphomaniac, narcissist, or murderer.

This wouldn't necessarily make Amanda Knox likeable to the world at large — I see all of these socially difficult qualities in my son, especially as he enters adolescence, and his friends, and the teachers at his school who are on the spectrum, and I have no illusions about that — but it would make her story make a lot more sense.

Edited October 1, 2016 by Margherita Erdman

[Knuckles]

Margherita's post is interesting, and offers something fresh about this awful case. Everyone seems to agree the local police bungled the investigation, and from there, it became a story about a relatively rich, beautiful American who committed murder and expected to get away with it. The Italian tabloids ran with this version of reality and it fed into a groundswell of antagonism about entitled Americans.
You can still see this edge in British newspapers, which have sided with the Kirchner family and their certainty that Knox was guilty to some degree, though the forensic evidence does not support this. They display almost a primal resentment that Knox is alive and their daughter dead. The British tabloids, like the Italian, have made plenty of money from their Foxy Knoxy narrative.
Amanda Knox herself does not present well, despite the angelic face, and that helped spin the belief that she was an apparent Madonna with the soul of the devil. That she may be on the spectrum, with reactions and behaviors that confused her interrogators, is something that I did not see brought up at trial. Why wouldn't her family engage a forensic psych with familiarity with autism to explain some of this. Is is not allowed in Italian trials? Or does her family consider her high-functioning and not wish to have her labeled as autistic?
Thank you for that post.

[Margherita Erdman]

2 hours ago, Knuckles said:

That she may be on the spectrum, with reactions and behaviors that confused her interrogators, is something that I did not see brought up at trial. Why wouldn't her family engage a forensic psych with familiarity with autism to explain some of this. Is is not allowed in Italian trials? Or does her family consider her high-functioning and not wish to have her labeled as autistic?
Thank you for that post.

Thank you for taking it in the spirit in which it was intended! This case can be such a flashpoint for people.

Please keep in mind this is total speculation on my part (although not new or original speculation — Google "Amanda Knox autism" or "Amanda Knox Aspergers" and you'll find a lively online conversation among Aspies themselves or parents like me who think the pieces fit — the parent discussions can be interesting because it's often along the lines of "this could have been my incredibly socially tone-deaf child making misstep after misstep in the spotlight of the British tabloids and a foreign cultural lens").

That said, it doesn't seem that Amanda has ever been diagnosed, though they are aware of her "quirks" (dealing with anxiety by singing loudly in public, misreading social situations, difficulty expressing herself clearly in spoken conversation, other things mentioned in the exhaustive media coverage by her family and friends or Amanda herself). The reason that many really really high-functioning folks with autism still never get a diagnosis or help, as mentioned above, is that there's no real reason for it; they cope just fine.

And even if she did have a clinical diagnosis, I think that it is unlikely that in Italy or the UK that it would be accepted it as an excuse for her behavior. More likely that there would be a backlash against American over-diagnosis or some such.

Everyone's looking for someone to blame when something this awful happens. In the Google results I mentioned above you'll find plenty of parents wondering how Amanda's parents could let her go to Italy if they knew how bad her "street smarts" and social skills were, per their many interviews (a position I have a certain sympathy with TBH).

[Sarah D. Bunting]

I would tend to agree, with no experiential basis mind you, that Knox is not neurotypical. You would expect a woman of her age and with her history to have adapted somewhat by now, especially after everything, to behavior that is "expected." And I think she probably tried, but it appears she's not capable. She still presents as emotionally "young" in a way that is, to me, notable given that she did spend several years in prison and that this case dragged on for nearly a decade.

[riffraff]

What I could not figure out is why Amanda felt safe entering the house and taking a shower when the front door was open. I'd be fucking checking every nook and cranny. Making sure no mf were in there.
I don't care how she she kissed her boyfriend,everyone deals with death differently. But the fact that she felt safe entering the house and just casually taking a shower tells me she knew no one was there.
And how the fuck do you miss a big ass blood stain on the bath mat while you are getting in the shower?? I think I'd be calling the police as soon as I saw the front door open.
I wouldn't be taking a shower.

[Endeavour]

Yes, the whole going into the house and showering seems off. I guess a roommate could have left the front door open and that could be why she didn't think much of it at first. Still, I would have been calling out to the roommate and checking around - or more likely - not going in at all. I guess the broken window was in Meredith's room? I couldn't get a good feel for that the way it was shown. The boyfriend said they got high a lot. I was wondering if maybe she was high/drunk and didn't notice certain things right away. Even the boyfriend commented that he didn't understand how she went in and showered.

The reporter in the talking heads irritated me. He kept going on about how you couldn't ask for a better story not once acknowledging the tragedy of Meredith's death. Amazing. Really captured the issue.

Overall, I was dissapointed with the documentary. I knew very little before watching and very little after. I felt bad for the boyfriend. Amanda's little rehearsed speeches did nothing for me. I would have preferred to see more direct questions answered. I would have liked to see more evidence of why the investigator thought the break in was staged. While they discussed the changing stories, it wasn't done in a way that made it believable to me. It just seems like so much more could have been explained. Missed opportunity in my opinion.

[singsong]

I did not know about the cartwheels and splits at the police station. That's....interesting.

In one book regarding the Knox case, I believe it was A Fatal Case of Beauty, the cartwheels done at the police station were by request from a police officer. As Knox explains she had been sitting for hours of questioning and was tired and sore. She did a few yoga moves to stretch and an officer asked her if she could and would perform a cartwheel. I'm convinced that Knox is guilty of nothing except for being a naive, slightly strange girl who wanted to assert her independence.

[Janet Snakehole]

I actually don't find her to be overally weird or awkward at all? I didn't watch or know anything about this trial previously, but while watching this she seemed like an emotive person who was caught in a completely shitty situation.

Now, the reporter they interviewed? He seemed completely scummy to me and missing any sense of empathy. I felt disgusted whenever he came on.

Edited October 3, 2016 by Janet Snakehole
A word

[jenrising]

Haven't caught this yet, but is there any mention of Patrick Lamumba, the man Amanda at one point claimed committed the murder? 

[Sarah D. Bunting]

There is a segment on him. Knox's rationale for accusing him is...striking, you might say.

[stillshimpy]

I won't be watching this but I am familiar with the case.  I think Knox is wired a little differently in terms of emoting but I'm not entirely certain about the possibility of being Autistic.  I think primarily what happened was that she actively didn't care that Kercher had been murdered.  I think the whole crime was just at a point in her development when her empathy was almost entirely non-existence and her self-involvement were at such a pitch as to make her seem guilty when she honestly just didn't really care that this person she lived with was dead.  That isn't the same thing as being a sociopath, I think she just hadn't fully matured emotionally and that the weirdness afterward further thwarted her emotional development. 

After all, I think it's a fairly normal stage of development to be that self-involved at 19-20.   From what I recall, Knox was a fan of getting high and that also can carry with it a sort of flat emotional affect.  

Regardless, whether or not she lands on the spectrum or simply was still emotionally immature enough to see the world only as it appeared to the very end of her own nose, she was mostly convicted for not attempting to fake anything (concern, compassion, empathy) because for whatever reason, Amanda Knox at that age, didn't fully understand that she was very far from what was the expected emotional response system.  

As for Meredith Kercher's parents being convinced of her involvement, oddly enough it's sort of a strange relative of the slightly bent emotional response system of Knox: whether Amanda Knox was just plain-old high and not processing properly while stepping over and around blood stains or not, she mainly approached the murder of her roommate as something that didn't concern her and that she actively failed to care about on any other level.   The fact that the Kerchers loved their daughter (as is completely appropriate and understandable) is the thing that forever separates them from Knox and makes it impossible for them to grasp how she could be innocent and still act so uncaringly.    Kercher was one of the focal points of their world, they will never be able to understand how Knox simply did not care that their daughter/relative was murdered.  

Plus, I think that they also have a deep and understandable wound resulting from the fact that the murder of their daughter is remembered almost exclusively because of Amanda Knox.  I cannot imagine how insanely painful life must be for the Kerchers.  A case that is brought up over and over and almost everyone has to stop and look up, "Wait, who was she supposed to have killed again? What was her name?  Oh that's right, Meredith Kercher" before pretty swiftly moving back to thinking about it all from Knox angle.  

Those poor people.  I don't think Knox is guilty of a thing other than being a remarkably self-involved young woman (and sweet lords of mercy, she has paid for being that self-centered) while possibly have some neurological reasons as to why she is a bit odd from a distance, even to this day.  However, the Kercher's heartbreak must be unending every time this case comes up.  I understand the interest in it, even now, because what an incredibly strange series of events.  It makes sense that the case will always be a "Right?  What the fuck was that all about anyway?"  moment.  It's just got to be so hard for the Kerchers, to the point where they pretty much have to believe Knox is guilty of something since the murder of their loved one is usually only remembered because of how unsettling Knox's affect can be. 

Edited October 3, 2016 by stillshimpy

[Knuckles]

49 minutes ago, stillshimpy said:

It's just got to be so hard for the Kerchers, to the point where they pretty much have to believe Knox is guilty of something since the murder of their loved one is usually only remembered because of how unsettling Knox's affect can be. 

I think your post is insightful... I was a completely self-involved 19 year old, and even if high, I am reasonably sure I would notice my apt. door being wide open, and blood stains and more in the bathroom...enough that I would be cautious and look to see if anyone else was in the apt.  It's possible that the difference is that Knox was high, and I was a drinker...or that she was simply socially more naive. But her other reactions were so off-kilter...singing to herself when tense, doing yoga moves while waiting to be interrogated by police, showing little affect when told her roommate was murdered...suggest to me more than self-involvement. I think it is reasonable to surmise she may be on the spectrum, and that her family is unaware, accepting instead of her "quirks" as normal. But to the rest of the world, she did not present well, her behavior opened her to suspicion, and I would like to include the simmering antagonism in Italy toward relatively privileged Americans. it all became a toxic brew.

And yes, the Kircher's suffered a terrible loss. One of the horrible consequences of murder is that the dead are soon overlooked in the search for the killer. Knox has suffered as well, but she is still alive and well...Meredith was brutally killed and gone forever from her parents' lives.

[stillshimpy]

Quote

 

I think it is reasonable to surmise she may be on the spectrum, and that her family is unaware, accepting instead of her "quirks" as normal.

I can absolutely believe that her family might overlook that as being a likely suspect in Amanda's demeanor if they find her demeanor remarkable at all.  Perhaps you're right.  However, since the prevalence of Autism has been part of the national conversation for most of her lifetime -- she's roughly the same age as my son (who is 26) and because of that, Pediatricians, teachers, school workers....and her defense team would have likely looked to that if it was a possible explanation.  I think they knew it wasn't.  It was known that Amanda's behavior and presentation were causing problems and she had a defense team. 
 

If this was a case from forty years ago, I'd agree, it's possible.  Amanda Knox was born into a time that, putting aside entirely loving families who accept us for who we are, her defense team would have tried to explore that angle.  I guess I should say "one of her defense teams" since she's had more than one at this stage.    It remains possible that it is at play regardless. 

However, I was a stoner, not a drinker and yes, it's entirely possible to not make the cognitive connections when high as to whether or not a door is supposed to be open or closed.  That's not definitive, it's just possible.   Truly, it's such a strange case, anything remains possible as we've really never heard a particularly compelling explanation from anyone on her team. 

Edited October 3, 2016 by stillshimpy

[Pachengala]

On September 30, 2016 at 11:46 PM, Margherita Erdman said:

...I really think the best explanation for Amanda Knox's unusual affect and the rabbit hole she fell into is that she is on the autistic spectrum or has autistic traits...

Being on the spectrum myself, I immediately pegged Knox as 'spectrum-y.' I could be totally off, but she's got the affect nailed. Hell, I got arrested in my younger days and I did the Running Man while being booked (it made sense in context) because I felt so terrified and out of control. 

On October 1, 2016 at 6:52 AM, Knuckles said:

They display almost a primal resentment that Knox is alive and their daughter dead. 

On the other hand, this makes total sense to me. Their daughter is dead and the people they think were involved are free to live out their lives. As a mother, I would probably be absolutely crushed living with the dailiness of this knowledge, when combined with the grief and agony of my child's death. I don't know what happened, but I don't think the question of their involvement was satisfied definitively by this awkward and somewhat tawdry documentary, and the crime scene sure isn't giving up anything, with how badly it was managed.

On October 2, 2016 at 9:40 AM, Endeavour said:

Overall, I was dissapointed with the documentary. I knew very little before watching and very little after...Amanda's little rehearsed speeches did nothing for me.

Agreed on both points. What were they even attempting with this doc? To exonerate Knox? To let her tell her story? Failed on both accounts; I don't have any more depth of understanding of the facts (or hell, even the timeline, the sequence of events, or what either side actually claimed happened) than I did before, and Knox's little 'express deep sentiment about the hearts of men then gaze meaningfully into camera' obfuscated more about her than it revealed. Ultimately, this was a big old eye-rolling waste of time.

[jenrising]

As Sarah said, this wasn't for people who know the case well, and I'd go as far as to say at all. It was kind of boring. I think a real interview with Amanda would have been interesting. I can see why she'd only want to do what seemed like a rehearsed speech, but it didn't really give any insight. 

I did find it entertaining to watch the detective, Mignini, be wrong every other word. And he serves as a good example of how Amanda and the others got railroaded, but there was just something missing. 

Like you said, Pachengala, I'm not clear on what the point is. I guess I want a little more POV from the film-makers. 

[Whimsy]

I knew very little about this case- just the bare minimum.  So, I enjoyed this.  What I saw from this was the contempt and dislike that detective had for Americans.  I also got the sense that they just wanted to close this case and that it was outsiders that did this crime so their community could feel safe again. 

What I got from Amanda was just that she was VERY immature and naïve.  I know they said her journal had detailed her past sexual encounters when she thought she had contracted HIV, but how many were there I wonder?  She just seemed very not-worldly.  I feel like her parents were probably helicopter parents.  The other thing that struck me so completely odd was how much Amanda and Raffaele were saying they "loved" each other, etc, after only five days.  Again, a real sign of immaturity. 

[Kbilly]

I wanted so much more--what was it like being in prison?? That's a long time! How was she treated? When did she see how huge the tabloid coverage was, did people bring her clippings? How did she react? What is she doing now? Living alone with three cats making meatballs? Is she working? Does she feel like she needs to be isolated? How often does she talk to Rafael?

I wish they would've explored Rudy more.

The "journalist" : "I can't just go check out everything people tell me! What if my competitor beats me? That's not what this job is about!" Umm....it's actually exactly what the job is about. Facepalm.

There were times when she was sitting there silent with a face that made me honestly terrified. Something is off with her.

[jenrising]

29 minutes ago, GenL said:

What I got from Amanda was just that she was VERY immature and naïve.  I know they said her journal had detailed her past sexual encounters when she thought she had contracted HIV, but how many were there I wonder?  She just seemed very not-worldly.  I feel like her parents were probably helicopter parents.  The other thing that struck me so completely odd was how much Amanda and Raffaele were saying they "loved" each other, etc, after only five days.  Again, a real sign of immaturity. 

I think in the scene at the newsstand she said there were 7. Which is very few people to have learned enough to be able to make men murder and rape for you using only magical sex powers. 

[Whimsy]

15 hours ago, jenrising said:

I think in the scene at the newsstand she said there were 7. Which is very few people to have learned enough to be able to make men murder and rape for you using only magical sex powers. 

That's what I was thinking too.  I figured that number wasn't high, although sort of high for 18 (in my old, curmudgeon state-of-mind). But, still not this worldly temptress.

[DangerousMinds]

16 hours ago, Kbilly said:

I wanted so much more--what was it like being in prison?? That's a long time! How was she treated? When did she see how huge the tabloid coverage was, did people bring her clippings? How did she react? What is she doing now? Living alone with three cats making meatballs? Is she working? Does she feel like she needs to be isolated? How often does she talk to Rafael?

I wish they would've explored Rudy more.

The "journalist" : "I can't just go check out everything people tell me! What if my competitor beats me? That's not what this job is about!" Umm....it's actually exactly what the job is about. Facepalm.

There were times when she was sitting there silent with a face that made me honestly terrified. Something is off with her.

If interested, you should check out her memoir. It covers her jail time and the trial in detail.

[Kbilly]

DangerousMinds Yeah I found a 48 Hours episode shortly after posting this that went into a lot of the details I was looking for--like her being sexually harassed in prison. Still I think the filmmakers should have poked around Rudy more!

[LakeGal]

I was surprised they didn't reveal more about the prosecutor.  He had his own problems that I thought should have kept him from even prosecuting the case.

[Maria Von Trapp]

On 2016-10-05 at 6:17 AM, DangerousMinds said:

If interested, you should check out her memoir. It covers her jail time and the trial in detail.

I have watched and read a lot about this case over the years, and have gone back and forth as to whether Amanda had anything to do with the murder. The Netflix version did provide a few new bits of information , one being the interview with Raphaele. I really think , after hearing his account, that Rafaele's first version of events , that Amanda spent the whole night with him, was perhaps to provide an alibi for her.  After being questioned at length by police , I think he broke down and told the truth , which was that she left his apartment  at some point during the evening. He struck me as a naive but ultimately honest person, who was in way over his head when he hooked up with Amanda. The other thing I had not heard before was the taped phone call between Amanda and her friend from Seattle which the police recorded 3 days after the murder . This was the most off putting part of the whole film. Hearing the friend talking about whether Raphaele is " super hot" and " is he , like, your boyfriend? ( giggle, giggle)" , so soon after the horrible crime that Amanda was so closely involved with just seemed wrong. Amanda didn't  seem to find this inappropriate at all, and promised to send a picture , and only after that discussion did she redirect the conversation to the fact that she, Amanda, had a bad day , what with the police questioning her etc. The two girls sounded more like 12 year olds than like young women in their twenties. If Amanda has aspergers, then her friend has it too. I think it's more a case of being extremely spoiled , self-involved and immature. As a previous poster said , Amanda's parents probably should not have allowed her to travel to a foreign country alone, knowing her lack of insight or ability to see beyond her own need for immediate gratification. The Netflix film did not shed much light on the facts of the case for me, but it did lower my opinion of Amanda 's character even more.Her talking heads were poorly acted and downright creepy. Hopefully she will fade into oblivion soon, because she is not doing herself any favours by continuing to pursue publicicity. 

[raven]

For more about the Italian prosecutor, Giuliano Mignini, and his tactics - the man should not have his job - read up on the Monster of Florence case.

Whatever anyone thinks of Amanda Knox and her behaviors, Mignini used the same abusive tactics in that notorious case.  Never solved, though people have been convicted over the years - the case dates back to the 60's - and others arrested.  I had read some of Douglas Preston's fiction, which is what led me to the non-fiction "Monster of Florence" book.    It's difficult to apply American sensibilities to Italian politics, but what Mignini put the Italian journalist (Mario Spezi) through was reprehensible, while not looking at real evidence. 

[jenrising]

With "insights" like when he said a woman had to be the killer because they covered Meredith with the duvet and a man would never think to do that, even assuming good intentions, Mignini has no business being involved in any cases. 

[truthaboutluv]

Quote

I also got the sense that they just wanted to close this case and that it was outsiders that did this crime so their community could feel safe again. 

Basically 

Quote

I wanted so much more--what was it like being in prison?? That's a long time! How was she treated? When did she see how huge the tabloid coverage was, did people bring her clippings? How did she react? What is she doing now? Living alone with three cats making meatballs? Is she working? Does she feel like she needs to be isolated? How often does she talk to Rafael?

You should watch her Diane Swayer interview after she was released, where she talked about a lot of these things - the stuff that was said about her in the tabloids, her journal and sexual history being made public for the world, the splits and jumping jacks in jail (her reason, she'd been there for hours and was trying to stretch her muscles), what she's doing now, her relationship with Rafael (they're just friends but still talk and he came to visit her in Seattle), etc. 

Quote

The other thing I had not heard before was the taped phone call between Amanda and her friend from Seattle which the police recorded 3 days after the murder . This was the most off putting part of the whole film. Hearing the friend talking about whether Raphaele is " super hot" and " is he , like, your boyfriend? ( giggle, giggle)" , so soon after the horrible crime that Amanda was so closely involved with just seemed wrong. Amanda didn't  seem to find this inappropriate at all, and promised to send a picture , and only after that discussion did she redirect the conversation to the fact that she, Amanda, had a bad day , what with the police questioning her etc. 

My cousin died at 38 of stomach cancer. It was very quick - about four months where she was losing weight and couldn't figure out why, doctors never figured out what it was until it was too late and then she was dead. A day after her death, I called my mom to discuss my flight arrangements to come for the funeral and she and the family who was gathered at my cousin's were laughing and seemingly having a great time and cracking jokes.

This included my cousin's mother who just lost her daughter and my mother was my cousin's godmother. Someone listening to that phone call, would think these were all a bunch of heartless people and I can tell you that we were all broken by her death. My mom lost weight, so did her mother, the funeral was devastating, etc. But in that moment, they decided to find something to laugh and smile about. 

Point being, people deal with grief and tragedy and loss in different ways and yes, you add the fact that Meredith was just a girl that Amanda had recently met and shared a house with, along with two other girls and some would read her reactions as "not right".  But the truth is there is no "right way" to react to something like and that doesn't mean someone is strange or on the spectrum or any of that stuff. It just means we're all wired in our own way and sometimes how we react to things isn't what some person thinks is normal. But that shouldn't be a reason to be convicted of murder and for Amanda, it did seem like that was what she was most guilty of. That she didn't react "normally" to Meredith's death so that must mean she's a crazed, sex driven psychopathic killer. 

[Marsupial]

I have followed this case obsessively from the start and nothing I've read or seen (and I've followed the Italian, American and UK coverage--yes, obsessive is the word, LOL) has ever mitigated my opinion that Amanda and Raffaelle are as guilty as OJ Simpson.

Nobody's mind is going to change at this point, I realize that, but it's distressing how little good information has appeared in the U.S. media on this case. I feel like most Americans have been fed a steady diet of half-truths and misinformation, including this documentary, and again, I'm not sitting here as the Oracle of All Knowledge but I would like to point out some alternative sources because almost every piece of information that's come up here has been discredited.

Take the attacks on Guilano Mignini, the Knox/Sollecito prosecutor. Knox's defenders love to bring up the "Monster of Florence" case, so here's an actual timeline of the events and facts--Mignini was acquitted of ALL charges and Preston and Spezi were found to have been illegally interfering in an investigation: http://www.truejustice.org/ee/index.php?/tjmk/comments/mignini_and_giuttari_win_final_round_in_spurious_2010_conviction/

That web site is biased (it's firmly in the Amanda-guilty camp) but the facts are the facts. Mignini was fully acquitted and has been promoted.

The American press also portrayed Italy's humane, defendant-friendly and rigorous justice system as a third-world nightmare, blamed police brutality foAmanda's false accusation of Lumumba (I have yet to hear a Knox supporter explain that one), and flat-out lied about how she and Raffaele were treated.

Here's another site that is dedicated to collecting ALL of the evidence, in both Italian and English, on this case, probably the most comprehensive and straightforward gathering of the court documents (translated into English) and evidence: http://themurderofmeredithkercher.com/Main_Page

And yes, here's one that supports Amanda's innocence: http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/

I don't see how anyone can look at the evidence and look past the biased U.S. media coverage (hint: almost 90% of it is untrue), and come away with anything other than the idea that Amanda is guilty. But then again, O.J. was acquitted too. I always draw parallels between the two cases because there are so many.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Marsupial
clarification

[Marsupial]

Oh and the BBC documentary on the case is much more informative and balance. It's available online: ttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erla7Ley4Tw

[raven]

Since I brought it up, this is what I recall from the MOF case.  I haven't followed the Knox case that closely (and I'm sorry, those two links up there are too hysterical for me) but with DNA evidence pointing to the correct murderer - it just seems to me that Mignini doesn't like to admit he's wrong.  Plus he seems like a nut.

Spezi's obstruction conviction was overturned and Preston came back to America (I don't think he was convicted of anything, why would he have been allowed to leave?  It's been while since I read it though).  Mignini's abuse of office conviction was determined to have been sent down by the wrong court, was overturned and was sent to another court to see if they would re-file.  Not exactly the same as being innocent; the original sentence of over a year was pretty damning in what the judges thought of his tactics.  IIRC by the time the new court looked at it, the statutes had expired.  

Mignini believed a Satanic cult were performing the MOF killings as some kind of ritual, despite NO evidence of that and much to the contrary; he insisted that a doctor who had committed suicide had actually been murdered as part of this cult.   Then he thought Mario Spezi was the MOF and told Preston he "could hear in his voice" that he was guilty of something. 

I'll give you that Spezi and Preston were overeager and should have stayed out of it but Spezi was held for nearly a month without a lawyer, using some obscure law that was written to hold members of the Mafia.  Mignini's insistence on cults and Satanists and what have you is kind of nutty.  I suppose as an American I lean towards journalists being given some leeway and I don't believe Spezi was obstructing anything - he was investigating the MOF case which had been mishandled for years (and yes, probably wanted to write a book). 

I am sorry that Meredith Kercher's family doesn't feel like the case is closed but I don't think it was anything more complicated than Guede murdering her - no conspiracy, no sex games.  As for Amanda Knox falsely accusing someone, it doesn't look well for her and my thought is that she was feeling desperate to get the finger pointed away from her.  Of course it was wrong and doesn't say good things about her character but it doesn't mean she's a murderer.  I've never been interrogated by the police for hours so I don't know how I would behave - especially if the police have already convicted me.

For me, this case more closely draws parallel to the JonBenet Ramsey case, with all of the mishandling of DNA and evidence at the outset and both cases being poisoned by the police's preconceived notions.

[Marsupial]

Two corrections: she wasn't interrogated for hours (it was two hours total, and she was given tea and snacks, and had an interpreter), and she fingered Lumumba very early in the questioning. And they had not yet convicted her, at the time she was only being questioned as a witness.  And she reiterated the accusation against Lumumba the next day, in writing. Nobody, including Amanda, has been able to provide a convincing rationale for her relentless accusation of Lumumba.

Weren't we all horrified at Susan Smith and Charles Stuart, who both invented fictional black men as suspects to cover their own crimes? And they were BOTH guilty. Why does Amanda get a pass on this? I've never understood why she this gets hand-waved for Amanda but not anyone else. And Lumumba wasn't fictional. She ruined an actual man's life, yet she's still painted as a victim.

So she was not a suspect when she was first questioned. The police only began to consider her a suspect when her story kept changing, and because her and Sollecito's alibis contradicted each other. There was no "preconceived notion." They couldn't even agree on whether they had spent the night together.

People keep talking about mishandled evidence and police preconceived notions. Neither were present in this case. It's really just like the OJ case, those were smokescreens thrown over to muddle the proceedings, and in both cases they worked.

Note that the makers of this documentary decided back in 2011 that Amanda was innocent. They did not make this documentary in a search for the truth, and it shows.

Edited October 10, 2016 by Marsupial

[Steph J]

16 hours ago, Marsupial said:

And she reiterated the accusation against Lumumba the next day, in writing. Nobody, including Amanda, has been able to provide a convincing rationale for her relentless accusation of Lumumba.

They address the fact of her accusing Lumumba in the documentary. She says that the police went through her phone and found a text message exchange between her and Lumumba in which Lumumba gave her the night off of work and she replied, "We will see each other later, have a good night," meaning she would see him at her next scheduled shift but which the police interpreted as the two of them making plans to see each other the night of the murder, and that the police were persistent in their pursuit of this idea. She then says that a police officer started slapping her in the back of the head, yelling, "Remember!" and that she "broke" and described Lumumba being there when Meredith was murdered (which of course means that she was also describing herself being there when Meredith was murdered). It's horrible that she accused Lumumba, and I think that the way that she describes it in the documentary deliberately minimizes her culpability in his life being upended and him being jailed, but based on what's in the documentary it seems like she was really immature, even for a 20 year old, and stronger people have broken during police interrogation over a lot less.

As for her not being considered a suspect before being brought in for questioning, Mignini himself says that he suspected her before he even questioned her because she wasn't behaving in a way he thought she ought to be.

[Marsupial]

The accusation that she was slapped in the head has been proven false. It never happened. Asked to identfy the officer who hit her, Amanda retracted that statement. 

The assumption here seems to be that poor weak Amanda was "broken" by a bullying and brutal interrogation and that simply isn't true. Amanda has proven a completely unreliable witness who couldn't keep her own story straight and even said she doubted the veracity of her own statements which is a really convenient "out" to give yourself. An innocent person would have reported exactly where they were and what they were doing at every minute of the timeline. Amanda had no reason to lie if she was inmocent. 

Yes I know about false self-accusations but the liar didn't accuse herself, did she? Oh no! She deliberately and repeatedly framed an innocent man. Amanda would happily have let Patrick sit in prison for 25 years and I think anyone capable of that monstrosity is capable of murder. It's beyond "immature". It is evil.

[truthaboutluv]

Admittedly I have not obsessively followed this case so I will not pretend I know every nook, cranny and detail. I guess in reading the above comments, my question is still what is the overwhelming proof of Amanda's guilt? I know links were provided but sorry, I am not going to read hundreds of links and articles on this. Give me the cliffs notes version of why there is absolutely no question that she and Raffaelle killed Meredith. For example, in regard to the comparison to the OJ Simpson trial, I can tell you why I know OJ killed Ron and Nicole - it's because blood matching his DNA was the only one other than the two victims' found at the crime scene. As for motive, he was a documented abuser who Nicole called the police on repeatedly. And the police admitted to coming to their home numerous times and seeing Nicole badly beaten and bruised. 

So regarding Amanda - here's my confusion. What is the physical evidence proving she murdered Meredith? Based on theories, my understanding is she held Meredith down, slapped her around, choked her and taunted her, may have even dealt some of the knife blows and yet not one bit of DNA and fingerprint by her was left behind? In the bloody and violent crime she had no bruising, marks, etc.? And what was the motive? So this girl just randomly popped into Italy and became a satanic sex freak who brutally murdered another person in some twisted sex game?

Again, I will admit I haven't spend countless hours on this so maybe there are reasonable explanations for all of these things. Because to me, while yes, there are some things that were off about Amanda and Raffaelle's story, the physical evidence simply doesn't add up to their having murdered Meredith in my opinion. And the truth is there are numerous examples of people acting strangely, giving false confessions, lying about their alibis, etc. and still being innocent of the actual crime.

Edited October 10, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[Marsupial]

I get what you're saying, and I don't expect everyone to be as crazed as I am LOL...here's a brief rundown:

Quote

it's because blood matching his DNA was the only one other than the two victims' found at the crime scene.

Here too.

1.  Blood containing Amanda's and Meredith's DNA, mixed, was found in numerous places in the cottage although not in Meredith's room.  It was in the bathroom sink, on the bidet faucet, on the light switch, on a box of cotton balls, in the bloody footprints on the floor and several other places. Some of it was not revealed until investigators used Luminol and investigators believed that someone had used bleach to clean the bloodstains that were not immediately visible.

2. On the knife believed to be the murder weapon (because its blade shape/size matched that of the fatal blow in Meredith's neck), Amanda's DNA was found on the handle and Meredith's blood was found on the blade. The knife was found in Raffaele's apartment, and he explained her blood being there by stating that Meredith had used it to cook at his apartment. In fact, Meredith had never been to his apartment.

The defense countered that the amount of DNA on the knife was too miniscule to provide a good reading, but an independent team of investigators (which included some American investigators who had offered their services in support of Amanda's defense team) all concluded that it could only have been Meredith's blood.

3. Investigators took a second knife from Raffaelle Sollecito's collection, a small jack-knife believed to be the weapon used in the smaller, non-fatal stabs to Meredith's neck. DNA belonging to both Knox and Sollecito was found on this knife.

4. Raffaele's DNA was found on the bloody bra clasp that was to become the most controversial piece of evidence in this case. It was not picked up until a month or more after the initial investigation, which allowed the defense to claim that it was tainted/contaminated (shades of OJ!). The prosecution responded that even though the bra clasp sat there all those weeks, the room was sealed off as a crime scene where nobody went in. This is probably where the defense made its strongest case for "contamination" or "improper handling."

Evidence that there were multiple attackers: No court, including the latest Supreme Court decision, has concluded that Rudy Guede (the only person convicted)acted alone. Forensic experts have not been able to demonstrate any way that Meredith could have suffered multiple stab wounds, restraint wounds (the bruises) on her arms, all at the same time. She had almost no defensive wounds, indicating that she was restrained firmly throughout the attack. Even the defense could not decide whether they thought the lone attacker had attacked Meredith from the back or the front.

Quote

As for motive, he was a documented abuser who Nicole called the police on repeatedly

In the case of Amanda and Raffaelle, it's admittedly true that the idea of a motive is much harder to figure out. It certainly seems really weird, random and unlikely that Amanda could go from being a normal American girl to a bloodthirsty killer, but it's not without precedent. But this is definitely the most puzzling part of the case. As for Sollecito, he had been exhibiting strange, destructive behaviors for a long time, to the point where his father worried so much about him that he made a nightly phone call to his son and was heard pleading with him to stop taking drugs. Rudy Guede was known to be sexually attracted to Meredith and his DNA was found on (and in) her body.

There's one theory that the actual killing was not intentional, that the three killers, drunk and on drugs, did mean to assault Meredith but not to kill her, and then things got out of hand, or she accidentally impaled herself on one of the knives, and they were all too messed up to even realize what was going on.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Marsupial
clarification

[Court]

False confessions are more common than one thinks. The chances of one happening is even higher when dealing with someone young or affected by mental illness. Knox is likely both.

Police use leading questions, manipulate, or outright lie to get the answers they want.

[Ohwell]

Unlike some people, I am not going to sit at my computer and try to analyze Amanda Knox as to whether she is on the autism spectrum, or has some kind of mental illness.  

All I can say is that she comes off as spoiled, entitled, clueless, and heartless.  Now whether she's like that in real life is another story.  I can only go by what I've seen of her.  

[Princess Sparkle]

For as much of a true crime junkie as I am, somehow I didn't end up paying attention to the Amanda Knox case when it was happening - I think probably because she and I are the same age, so while this case was happening, I was busy trying to graduate from college and get a job.  So in that case, this documentary was perfect for someone like me since I was coming into it with little to no preconceived notions about the case or Amanda herself.

In that respect, while I think Amanda's affectation is odd to say the least, I don't actually think she's guilty.  I do think her story of coming back to the house is weird as hell - if I came home and my front door was open and I saw a drop of blood in my sink, it wouldn't be poop in the toilet that made me think "SHIT, something's wrong here!".  That being said, if I were drunk or high, then all of those actions make a hell of a lot more sense to me.  I have made some dumb as shit logical decisions while drunk (including, in not my finest moment, calling my friend on my cell to see if she could help me find my cell phone because I didn't know where it was...), so then her actions don't seem nearly as odd to me.  

Plus, at the end of the day, I have to ask myself what makes more sense - Amanda used the powers of seduction to get two men to kill her roommate because she was being judged on her sex life or a man known for breaking and entering freaked out because someone was home and killed her.  One is a bad Lifetime movie, the other is something that makes complete sense.  

On 10/7/2016 at 11:52 AM, jenrising said:

With "insights" like when he said a woman had to be the killer because they covered Meredith with the duvet and a man would never think to do that, even assuming good intentions, Mignini has no business being involved in any cases. 

God, no kidding.   I think most criminal experts agree that covering a body post-mortum is usually because the perpetrator is trying to cover their own guilt or shame from what they've done and "protect" the body; it has absolutely nothing to do with the gender of a killer.  

However, the person that sickened me the most in this entire documentary was that scumbag reporter.  The absolute GLEE he took in describing the misinformation he helped spread was appalling, and to write it off as "well, we wouldn't have gotten the story first!" is disgusting.  I know he isn't, but he should be ashamed of himself.

[SimoneS]

If Amanda Knox and her friends had murdered Meredith Kercher in the U.S. and accused a black man of their crime, Kox would be considered just another Susan Smith and dismissed without a second thought. However, her family scammed the media and did everything it could to get her off. 

My sympathies to the Kerchers who will never get any justice.

Edited October 12, 2016 by SimoneS

[Marsupial]

Absolutely, SimoneS. And the only person convicted was a young black man who didn't have a rich family or a gullible American press backing him. Rudy Guede was on his own  and he ended taking the fall for all three.

[SimoneS]

18 minutes ago, Marsupial said:

Absolutely, SimoneS. And the only person convicted was a young black man who didn't have a rich family or a gullible American press backing him. Rudy Guede was on his own  and he ended taking the fall for all three.

Don't forget Patrick Lamumba who Knox originally accused of murdering Meredith Kercher. He would be sitting in prison right next to Rudy Guede (who was involved) if he did not have a rock solid alibi with multiple witnesses who could testify that there was no way that he could have committted the murder.

The Italian police has to take responsibility for it's own racism and xenophobia which allowed them to be misled by Knox initially. They might have done a better job investigating the crime from jump if they were not so blindly willing to go allow with the usual "it was a N-word that did it" story. It was the same thing that happen with Susan Smith and Charles Stuart. 

Knox is clearly a murdering sociopath. I recall that it was announced that she was engaged. Her fiance/husband better watch his back because he just might be next.

Edited October 12, 2016 by SimoneS

[Marsupial]

Your point about the Italian police is well taken. They arrested Lumumba with no other evidence and didn't release him until patrons from his bar came forward and testified talking to him there during the night in question. It was an ugly and embarrassing episode in this whole mess.

Quote

Her fiance/husband better watch his back because he just might be next.

No kidding! I would sleep with one eye open.

[truthaboutluv]

13 hours ago, Marsupial said:

Absolutely, SimoneS. And the only person convicted was a young black man who didn't have a rich family or a gullible American press backing him. Rudy Guede was on his own  and he ended taking the fall for all three.

And his DNA was the one all over Meredith's room, not to mention inside her body proving he sexually assaulted her, his shit was in the toilet and he had some of her personal belongings, after of course fleeing the country. And from my understanding, despite appealing his case, he's never once flat out said, "all three of us killed her and it was Amanda's idea". Instead he mentioned seeing a shadowy figure that looked like Amanda in the apartment, then saying some story about coming in and seeing some guy over Meredith talking in Italian who he didn't recognize. 

It sounded like an attempt to shift blame on Amanda and Raffaelle without actually flat out saying they were the ones who did it. And that makes no sense to me because at that point, what did he have to lose admitting his involvement and that it was the three of them. They had a butt-load of evidence against him and he was going down no matter what - so just reveal the whole thing and take them down with him. Especially since I'm sure the Italian prosecutors, after all the crap and negative press they'd gotten would have loved to have something that solidly proved they were right all along about Amanda and Raffaele. 

Instead, Rudy's latest claim from what I understand, is that the bloody writing on the wall of Meredith's room matching his DNA was his attempt to write out what she was trying to tell him as she lay dying. Okay then. That's of course not counting his other story changes like how he and Meredith had consensual sex. 

By the way, thanks for responding to my previous comment. 

Quote

1.  Blood containing Amanda's and Meredith's DNA, mixed, was found in numerous places in the cottage although not in Meredith's room.  It was in the bathroom sink, on the bidet faucet, on the light switch, on a box of cotton balls, in the bloody footprints on the floor and several other places. Some of it was not revealed until investigators used Luminol and investigators believed that someone had used bleach to clean the bloodstains that were not immediately visible.

I actually heard about the spots of blood that was found in the bathroom and I think the kitchen of the cottage. I think Amanda did talk about that in her Diane Sawyer interview. My understanding was that it was tiny spots of blood, not large amounts. But more importantly, so Amanda was sloppy enough to trek her and Meredith's blood to multiple spots in the cottage but still manage to eliminate all of her DNA from Meredith's room? And where did her blood come from with regard to the murder because again, far as I know she had no cuts, bruises, defensive wounds on her. Like for example, relating back to OJ, there was the infamous cut and bandaged finger that he couldn't explain. 

Quote

2. On the knife believed to be the murder weapon (because its blade shape/size matched that of the fatal blow in Meredith's neck), Amanda's DNA was found on the handle and Meredith's blood was found on the blade. The knife was found in Raffaele's apartment, and he explained her blood being there by stating that Meredith had used it to cook at his apartment. In fact, Meredith had never been to his apartment.

I will give that that makes Raffaele seem guilty but Amanda's DNA being on the handle of a knife at the apartment of a guy she was dating and spending hours at his place is not a smoking gun in my opinion, especially when it was not 100 percent proven that it was the murder weapon. Also, I'm confused about something. My understanding regarding those who believe Amanda and Raffaele are guilty is that this was either some sex game thing gone wrong or they were high and things got crazy, etc. I've never gotten the impression anyone thinks this started at Raffaele's place and then brought over to where Meredith and Amanda lived. But for him to bring a knife from his apartment to kill Meredith suggests a premeditation to kill her. And yet he then stupidly brought the knife back to his apartment? I guess he could have thought no one would suspect him so it would not matter but seems odd to say the least and sloppy for such a psychopathic killer. 

Quote

3. Investigators took a second knife from Raffaelle Sollecito's collection, a small jack-knife believed to be the weapon used in the smaller, non-fatal stabs to Meredith's neck. DNA belonging to both Knox and Sollecito was found on this knife.

Okay this just sounds speculative because I would expect Raffaele's DNA to be on his own knife and if his and Amanda's were the only DNA found, how does that prove anything about Meredith's murder? 

Quote

4. Raffaele's DNA was found on the bloody bra clasp that was to become the most controversial piece of evidence in this case. It was not picked up until a month or more after the initial investigation, which allowed the defense to claim that it was tainted/contaminated (shades of OJ!). The prosecution responded that even though the bra clasp sat there all those weeks, the room was sealed off as a crime scene where nobody went in. This is probably where the defense made its strongest case for "contamination" or "improper handling."

Well a piece of evidence sitting at a crime scene for a month or more, that the investigators insist they combed through thoroughly is a bit suspicious and at the least, it's sloppy investigation work. And again I go back to one, so there was none of Amanda's DNA and two, in all that bloody mess that had so much of Rudy's DNA, Raffaele, who was as up to his head in the crime as Rudy only left a spot of DNA on a bra clasp? In the entire room, that was it?

Quote

Evidence that there were multiple attackers: No court, including the latest Supreme Court decision, has concluded that Rudy Guede (the only person convicted)acted alone. Forensic experts have not been able to demonstrate any way that Meredith could have suffered multiple stab wounds, restraint wounds (the bruises) on her arms, all at the same time. She had almost no defensive wounds, indicating that she was restrained firmly throughout the attack. Even the defense could not decide whether they thought the lone attacker had attacked Meredith from the back or the front.

Again, to use the OJ example, if we believe fully that OJ Simpson alone was guilty, then keep in mind that he managed to brutally stab TWO people on his own. I was very young when that trial happened but I remember there were some theories that even if OJ was guilty, there was no way he could have done it by himself because how could he have stabbed Nicole as many times as he did and then still get to Ron and kill him. Surely that would have given Ron enough time to run. But that is certainly the consensus, that OJ alone brutally murdered these two people. So ymmv but I don't think it was impossible for Rudy alone to hold Meredith down, especially as evidence showed she was likely raped and then brutally stab her. I've seen stories on Investigation Discovery of way more brutal murders that was committed by only one person. 

Quote

As for Sollecito, he had been exhibiting strange, destructive behaviors for a long time, to the point where his father worried so much about him that he made a nightly phone call to his son and was heard pleading with him to stop taking drugs.

Being a druggie and your parent wanting you stop being a druggie does not make someone a cold blooded murderer. 

Quote

If Amanda Knox and her friends had murdered Meredith Kercher in the U.S. and accused a black man of their crime, Kox would be considered just another Susan Smith and dismissed without a second thought. 

Except it wasn't proven that she murdered Meredith and falsely accused a black man. Instead, she falsely accused a black man but then another black man's DNA and blood was found at the crime scene and she was later acquitted. Susan Smith falsely accused a black man of kidnapping her children and then confessed to being the one who killed them, which is why she was then arrested and is rightly serving jail time for her crime.

I get that many love a good conspiracy theory and I can certainly understand if one truly believes that Amanda and Raffaele murdered Meredith, how that would be upsetting because basically this poor girl got murdered and the people truly responsible didn't pay for it. However, as the saying goes, sometimes the simple answer is the right one.

So while the weird, soulless, secretly sociopathic American girl who went to Italy, met another psychopath and decided to murder her roommate for I don't know, the sexual thrill of it sounds fascinating and would make for a great Lifetime movie, it's just as likely that a known criminal who had a history of stealing, breaking into people's homes, broke into the house of some girls he'd hung around before, assuming they were all gone and unfortunately, happened to run into Meredith.

He raped her, killed her and then stole her belongings before fleeing. And then her weird ass roommate found her the next morning and didn't exhibit much grief because maybe truthfully aside from some shock and sadness over the brutality of what happened to Meredith, she wasn't that heartbroken about it. Cold, yes but that doesn't make her a murderer. YMMV of course. 

Edited October 12, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[Ohwell]

19 hours ago, Marsupial said:

No kidding! I would sleep with one eye open.

The person should sleep with one eye open no matter who it is.  Also, I can imagine someone maybe having a heart attack and begging Amanda to dial 911, and her blithely doing cartwheels.  

Sure, she might be innocent of murdering Meredith Kercher, but she's still comes off (to me) as not quite right in the head.   

[Marsupial]

That mixed blood showing DNA of both women was found throughout the house, including Filomena's room which was where the staged break-in was. And there is no DNA of Rudy's in there. It supports the idea that Knox and Sollecito staged the break-in after murder.  And it wasn't tiny spots, whatever Amanda said; in the pictures under the Luminol they are very large stains. As to the bra clasp, is there any explanation for Sollecito's DNA being in that blood that is innocent? (In the BBC documentary, they interview one of the world's leading experts in DNA typing, who states that despite all the "contamination" claims there is no possible way that DNA belongs to anyone but Sollecito.)

She also tried to claim that the blood came from her pierced earrings.

There were also two long, blond hairs found on Meredith's body, one in her hand and one in her vaginal area. I don't think they were Rudy's.

There was also evidence that someone did a pretty thorough cleanup job with bleach, and Amanda was seen buying bleach at a store on the morning after the murder.

Quote

the weird, soulless, secretly sociopathic American girl who went to Italy, met another psychopath and decided to murder her roommate for I don't know, the sexual thrill of it sounds fascinating and would make for a great Lifetime movie

And also reality, as in the Moors murders, the Bernardo-Homolka rape-murders, the Gallegos, the Hillside Stranglers and numerous other seemingly normal people who went through life without being crazed killers until they met someone that, for whatever reason, sparked a homicidal flame in both of them. In the Homolka-Bernardo saga, Paul was perfectly fine "just" being a rapist until he met Karla and then they both decided the best way to spice up their sex life was through shared torture, rape and murder, including of Karla's own sister. And they were even more "normal" seeming than Amanda and her beau. It's odd and unusual but certainly not unheard-of.

Quote

 

In the BBC documentary that's available online, and that does a much better job of fairly showing both sides, there's a recording of a conversation Rudy had while he was hiding out in Germany, with a friend, in which he clearly states that the other two were involved.

Quote

I remember there were some theories that even if OJ was guilty, there was no way he could have done it by himself because how could he have stabbed Nicole as many times as he did and then still get to Ron and kill him

But in this case that wasn't just some random theory, it was actually an integral part of every court document in this long, long case. In Rudy Guede's sentencing report it states clearly that there was more than one killer. So do the appeals court and Supreme Court summations. Nobody listening to the evidence and weighing it ever believed that Rudy acted alone.

Another point that often gets overlooked: in Rudy's sentencing, it was clearly stated that he was not the actual killer, only an accomplice. Hi DNA was not found on the murder weapon OR the smaller knives.

And again, you have to ask, what is an innocent explanation for the existence of Amanda's and Meredith's mixed blood all over the house, even if not specifically in that one room? What is an innocent explanation for Sollecito's? If you say that the DNA convicts Rudy, it convicts them too. You can't have it both ways.

Edited October 13, 2016 by Marsupial

[Marsupial]

Quote

a known criminal who had a history of stealing, breaking into people's homes,

Rudy Guede had no criminal history, which is part of the reason that his sentence was reduced from 30 to 16 years.

The other part being that he was proven to not have killed her. His sentence was as a co-conspirator with other, unnamed assailants, one of whom actually killed Meredith.  That's not a theory, that was the official sentencing judgment.

I'm not saying Rudy is an innocent lamb, btw. The three of them are horrible people for what they did.

[WendyCR72]

Ladies and gentlemen, as with any controversy, we will all have strong opinions as to what happened and who did or didn't do what. But the key here is keeping things respectful and friendly.

The one true fact is this: We weren't there. And we will likely never really know what took place. So please take a breath, shake hands, and remember to keep this civil. We are all adults here. I think we can discuss this rationally.

Thanks and carry on.

[Bastet]

Quote

The "journalist" : "I can't just go check out everything people tell me! What if my competitor beats me? That's not what this job is about!" Umm....it's actually exactly what the job is about. Facepalm.

Seriously.  I came away from this documentary thinking poorly of just about everyone involved -- investigators, the prosecutor, Amanda (I don't think she killed Meredith, but I think she was a disturbingly uncaring person back then), Amanda's hideously immature friend who called her three days after the murder, and that awful Daily Mail reporter.  He disgusted me pretty much every time he opened his mouth, and especially with that declaration.  He should be struck by lightning whenever he calls himself a journalist.

 

Edited October 24, 2016 by Bastet

[DangerousMinds]

I did read Amanda's book about her experiences, and it gives lots and lots of details about the whole thing, including her extensive time in jail and the court proceedings. I don't think she did it. I also don't think she was that awkward in this documentary; I saw others stating they thought she might be on the autism spectrum, but I didn't get that impression at all.