S02.E02: Liar, Liar, Slutty Dress on Fire

[tennisgurl]

I really like this one, glad this show is back! 

Lucifer has always been kind of needy with major parent issues, so I totally buy that he would jump right into trusting his mom. He wants to connect with people, and now his long missing mom has shown up with cheddar noodles saying she wants to be his mom, so of course he wants to believe her. I do hope he figures out what is going on soon though. 

 Amenadiel is not having a good time of it. I have no idea what is going on with him, but it seems like he is starting to fall. Maybe not fall, so much as stumbling downward. 

I like Mom so far, and I always love Tricia Helfer. Lets see where this goes!

[theatremouse]

15 hours ago, solea said:

What's up with Amendude's wings all tattered and disintegrating? What did I miss?

You didn't miss anything. It was a reveal unto itself, although it presumably explains why his timey-wimey mojo hasn't been working if his wings are basically dying. And why when Lucifer was trying to reach him via prayer-stance he didn't hear it. (at least, to me it was implied A didn't hear it, but I suppose it's possible he did and just ignored L due to wings-crisis, but for now I'm going with the former)

[Bruinsfan]

2 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

Question. Can "Dad" possess the body of someone who isn't dead? Because Trixie as God...could be so very very interesting as an inversion of the demon child trope that was discussed above.

I would assume that Yahweh can do absolutely anything he pleases, though he may be too committed to the idea of Free Will to actually possess someone. But there's a long tradition of him speaking to people on earth through visions, and theoretically the Holy Spirit is present in everyone.

[dwmarch]

The costume designer on this show seems to love me. I was thinking wouldn't it be funny if the only female clothing at Luci's place was an embarrassingly short leather skirt and Luci had to deal with that awkwardness. And sure enough! What a skirt too with that etched detailing on it. Not exactly something to wear to church but gorgeous nonetheless. It was Maze's though? Why are her clothes at Luci's place? I thought she lived elsewhere and I didn't think her and Luci had the kind of relationship in which her leather mini would get left at his place. Then again, I guess it's a good thing for Maze that she's not particularly attached to it since Mum just abandoned it on the street.

So the FBI or DEA has a low-level reluctant gang kid and a high-priced attorney working on bringing down a drug kingpin but he knows about this and is using it to feed false information back to them? That's... random.

I loved that Mum burnt the noodles. She has been in Hell for a long time, of course that's going to be her cooking style.

[theatremouse]

2 hours ago, Bruinsfan said:

I would assume that Yahweh can do absolutely anything he pleases, though he may be too committed to the idea of Free Will to actually possess someone. But there's a long tradition of him speaking to people on earth through visions, and theoretically the Holy Spirit is present in everyone.

Plus, I mean, why wear a meat-sack when you have a well-established history of possessing shrubbery instead. That said, I have a feeling this show probably won't ever go the route of having Pops directly interact with anyone onscreen. It's a vibe thing.

Edited October 5, 2016 by theatremouse

[vavera4ka]

LOVED this episode! 

It's so rare for the 2nd season to be great, so far no disappointment.

The whole dynamics of relationship between Lucifer and Mum is great: the awkwardness, mommie issues, acknowledging the sexy but immediately sweeping it not even under the rug, but out of the house.

As far as devil's personality goes, I see it that they follow the thought that he was trying to put out last season. Devil isn't evil, he was just doing a job he was assigned to do. His attitudes and behavior is shaped by his environment. in hell he was this cruel warden, on earth he is a smartass and intelligent rich guy. Even Amenadude is a slave of his environment: all righteous and  "go god" until he has to stay among humans for a long time. He is an angel but he isn't pure good, just like Lucifer isn't pure evil. Nothing personal, just a job.

[formerlyfreedom]

I very much enjoyed Tricia Helfer and this episode. I like the idea of her learning 'mothering' from the tv (of course she takes away the idea that cheesy noodles will solve all!), and I think it would be neat to see her and Trixie interact at some point down the road. I think Trixie could teach the her some good things!

[Gigi43]

I'm holding out hope that there is a decent chance Lucifer isn't being as trusting as he's letting on. Sure, he can can be impulsive and completely unfiltered, but we've seen him be sneaky when he wants (letting Chloe think he would actually ever let her go meet Malcolm alone, for example), he said to mom he needed to figure out what to do, and since he's been so ahead of the game until this point I have to believe that that means he's trying to decide what to really make of her claim. I just don't believe he'd be this trusting after one statement. Also, not for anything Lucifer seems like the kind of guy who might prefer outright dying/"being destroyed" than being punished forever, so that was kind of a weird non-reaction to not even question the decision in itself, but if he was just busy trying to figure out the angle here and if there's any truth in it, that makes sense.

 

Something small from last night I forgot to mention I liked: Ella started to just call Lucifer "Luc" and he was NOT having it. But he's never blinked at Amenadiel always calling him Luci. Hee!

[formerlyfreedom]

1 hour ago, Gigi43 said:

Something small from last night I forgot to mention I liked: Ella started to just call Lucifer "Luc" and he was NOT having it. But he's never blinked at Amenadiel always calling him Luci. Hee!

That's very true to me in the sense that my siblings and I give each other a hard time/have special nicknames for each other, but if you ain't my sib-- n'ah uh, not happening!

[Sandman87]

When Lucifer told Mum that she needed to lose the clothes, I immediately knew that she was going to strip them off right there.

I like the way that they started with a simple-seeming case, but it got more complicated every time they thought they had it wrapped up.

Maz needs to learn that improvising against Lucifer's instructions never turns out well.

On Monday, October 03, 2016 at 9:03 PM, Rosiejuliemom said:

That moment was great, but I preferred the coke in the garment bag. Ellis's face and "Cocaine!" was giving me momentary Dr. Rockso vibes and I enjoyed that.

Lucifer: "Ooh, c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-yeah! I'm Lucifer! I do c-c-c-c-cocaine! "

Chloe: "What? What are you doing here?"

Lucifer: "I hear somebody's been murdered! I do COCAINE!"

Perp: (mumbling) "I woke up with the Devil's hand in my pants. That's what I did today."

Lucifer: (whispering) "Seriously...I do a lot of cocaine."

[Teitr Styrr]

I'm loving this show. No sophomore slump so far. I don't know exactly what to think of Mom's knowing look to God. Either she's playing Lucifer, or she's sticking it to God. I guess for dramas sake, she's probably lying to Lucifer. I don't think Lucifer is even close to trusting her though. I think he's just playing along.

Also, hi Trixie!

[Rosiejuliemom]

58 minutes ago, Sandman87 said:

Lucifer: "Ooh, c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-c-yeah! I'm Lucifer! I do c-c-c-c-cocaine! "

Chloe: "What? What are you doing here?"

Lucifer: "I hear somebody's been murdered! I do COCAINE!"

Perp: (mumbling) "I woke up with the Devil's hand in my pants. That's what I did today."

Lucifer: (whispering) "Seriously...I do a lot of cocaine."

This? Just killed me dead. I am a stiff! Bereft of life, I rest in peace! I'm pushing up the daisies! My metabolic processes are now history! I've kicked the bucket, shuffled off my mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisible!!

I am an ex-poster!

[Commando Cody]

Okay. I'll be the one descent-er.  So far, I don't like Tricia Helfer in the role. It has nothing to do with her age. I just don't think she's good in the role. It seemed like her accent kept going in and out. I found her acting a little stiff. Like I was watching her act. I'm also disappointed that they didn't cast an older actress in the role. I imagine I might like her later after she has a few episodes to get her character nailed down.  I don't hate her. I just found her to be a big disappointment. 

Also, with so many new characters, I figure we're going to see less of the supporting cast in order to fit everyone in. 

I wondered if Amandiel is having problems due to using one of Lucifer's feathers to heal his wound. 

[Happy Harpy]

1 hour ago, icemiser69 said:

Pretty good episode, I have nothing to complain about.  This show is so much better with humor mixed into the writing. 

I found this one funnier than the premiere so I'm relieved that it didn't loose its mojo. Imo, the moment Lucifer takes itself too seriously, it will stop working.

[izabella]

I did not like the actress they chose to play mom, and I'm having a hard time believing that Lucifer would accept anything she says about how he ended up in Hell.  She is playing him, and is trying to stick it to God (lol) at the same time.  I am annoyed that the focus was so MUCH on how mom looks in skimpy clothes and even naked.  Yeah, I know it's Fox, but give me a break.  Total turn off, show.  Maze is a hottie hot hottie, but she does not grate like mom does at this point.

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, izabella said:

I am annoyed that the focus was so MUCH on how mom looks in skimpy clothes and even naked.  Yeah, I know it's Fox, but give me a break.

This! Yes, we get it, she's hot! But they kept beating it like a dead horse. She was hot enough that they didn't have to put her in Maze's slutwear, or make her get naked in the middle of the street which was about the single most predictable thing ever! Did they not trust us to get the fact that his mom is a hottie? It just felt desperate on the shows part. Is the show doing poorly in the ratings? It just felt like this entire episode was "come and watch us boys, we LIVE!NUDE!GIRLS!!!!!!"

[Commando Cody]

I didn't need to see Tricia Helfer's ribs. 

[atomationage]

UO, although I like Tricia Helfer, I think with this episode the show may be heading into shark-jumping territory.   They're obviously going to keep TH, but I don't think they need her at all.   They already have enough interesting characters, and if they cater to someone new and shiny, the show could go off the rails.  

[lark37]

Okay. I'll be the one descent-er.  So far, I don't like Tricia Helfer in the role. It has nothing to do with her age. I just don't think she's good in the role. It seemed like her accent kept going in and out. I found her acting a little stiff. Like I was watching her act. I'm also disappointed that they didn't cast an older actress in the role. I imagine I might like her later after she has a few episodes to get her character nailed down.  I don't hate her. I just found her to be a big disappointment. 

Also, with so many new characters, I figure we're going to see less of the supporting cast in order to fit everyone in. 

I wondered if Amandiel is having problems due to using one of Lucifer's feathers to heal his wound. 

Not sure yet what I think of the casting of Tricia Helfer as "mum", but I don't quite understand what you mean about her accent going in and out. Helfer is Canadian and from what I can recall from watching interviews with her, she doesn't have much of an accent. Also, I thought they did a good job of getting all the characters a bit of screen time this episode, even Trixie who was missed in the season 2 premiere. As for Amandiel using one of Lucifer's feather for healing being part of the disintegration of his heavenly body, that's a really interesting idea. Unfortunately, I don't think this show will dig that deep into the theology to go that route. I hope I'm wrong about that because as much as I love the comic parts of the show (Tom Ellis has great comedic chops--I've watch "Miranda" over and over), I do like when they dig a bit deeper into the theology of Lucifer and his expulsion from heaven.

[wayne67]

14 hours ago, izabella said:

I did not like the actress they chose to play mom, and I'm having a hard time believing that Lucifer would accept anything she says about how he ended up in Hell.  She is playing him, and is trying to stick it to God (lol) at the same time.  I am annoyed that the focus was so MUCH on how mom looks in skimpy clothes and even naked.  Yeah, I know it's Fox, but give me a break.  Total turn off, show.  Maze is a hottie hot hottie, but she does not grate like mom does at this point.

Did you have a similar problem with Lucifer's frequent disrobing during the first season ?

I mean it's not like the main characters haven't been naked before. At this point, there's been more Luci naked than anyone else. 

[Mabinogia]

When all has he been naked? I only remember the one time and am very ashamed that I can't remember more! haha. But the one time I remember was semi plot relevant since it was to show off his wing scars. I need to know when else he was bare...for research purposes purely. Not because I'm a dirty old woman!

I personally could care less how often they all get naked. For me it was how/why she got naked that came across as so contrived and predictable. "You can't wear those clothes" she undresses. That scene was out of every first time writers handbook. It was just sooo cliché, and not done in a clever enough way to make it fun, funny or remotely interesting for me. So far, for me, I know it's only been about 1.5 eps but everything about Mother is cliché and not in an interesting way. Hope that changes but I'm not optimistic.

[Eneya]

On 10/4/2016 at 7:45 AM, pivot said:

I think I need a refresher on the Bible. What rebellion? I can't remember why Lucifer got cast out of heaven. 

So, Mom's goal is to go back to heaven to live with her children minus Lucifer? 

 

According to the bible, angels have no free will. The sin of Lucifer was not that he wanted to rule heaven but that he wanted to be free to choose what to do. Basically, rebellion against the will of god being automatically overruling his own. 

For the mother thing, we are veering into Judaism, because nothing in Christianity recognizes a female deity in regards to god.

For the actress playing the mum, I'd quote Maze "stupid hot, wearing my clothes and with a credit card". I lol'ed. :)

I enjoyed Trixie and I loved how much Lucifer projects.

The supposed manipulation? I don't buy it. I don't think she was manipulating him but she has a long game prepared.

The falling feathers was... sad and weird and confusing.

Somebody said something about the show having mostly bad press? What the hell? Why? The only reason I can think of is some people having an issue since it is loosely based on Christian mythology but that would be ridiculous.

Right???

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Cheese Is The Cement Bonding Estranged Angels On Lucifer

The Prince of Darkness's mum learns that nothing says, 'I love you' like a few pounds of pasta gilded with fine dairy products, and she puts that know-how to use in derailing Lucifer from his deal with God.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

Eenie, meenie, minie, kilo!  It's the fun snark like this that makes the show work for me.   His delight when he learned the "offspring" was being devious and plucked out the eye of the doll was itself delightful.   It had to be such a hoot for TH when the script called for so many compliments of her hard body.  The eyes, they were a winkin'.

I loved that Mazi was at least threatening to be her old self with Mum.  It was a great moment when she unfurled the torture implements.    Of course, she never actually got to working.  

Of the really bad character motivations and theology messes and such of which this ep was full, I was struck that Mazi was basically the loyal demon again.  Why?  When did the rapprochement occur?  She made her emancipation move away from Luci.  There has been an uneasy "truce."  But, I never saw her reaffirm her fealty for him.  This really bugs me.

When did LG's wardrobe go back to normal?  Why?

[jhlipton]

Alien Linguistics 101: An alien (human or otherwise) will always misspeak one idiom ("cheesy noodles") regardless of how otherwise perfect their speech is.

On 10/3/2016 at 11:36 PM, Gigi43 said:

I wanted her to get the doll, just because that added to the cash from last season would be quite a profit off of the devil.

I'm glad Trixie didn't get the doll -- she was trying to manipulate Chloe, and Chloe wasn't having it.

[Ailianna]

On 10/6/2016 at 7:26 PM, jhlipton said:

Alien Linguistics 101: An alien (human or otherwise) will always misspeak one idiom ("cheesy noodles") regardless of how otherwise perfect their speech is.

Except that cheesy noodles are very real, and lots of people call noodles with cheese sauce cheesy noodles.  And it was called that in the TV show clip she was watching.

Images for cheesy noodles

[Eneya]

On 10/7/2016 at 0:26 AM, jhlipton said:

Alien Linguistics 101: An alien (human or otherwise) will always misspeak one idiom ("cheesy noodles") regardless of how otherwise perfect their speech is.

I'm glad Trixie didn't get the doll -- she was trying to manipulate Chloe, and Chloe wasn't having it.

 

If a 6 or 8 year old was able to manipulate a detective, she'd be unfit for her job...
I am handwaving Lucifer and her lack of adequate judgement due to Lucifer's powers but NOT the kid stuff. That'd be too much. :)

[gwhh]

On October 3, 2016 at 0:13 PM, Jennstar said:

Would you want to choose an old man or woman if you had the choice of being an attractive woman?

I would take the man. Less Daily work needed inside and outside the body. 

[lark37]

On 10/6/2016 at 7:16 AM, Eneya said:

On 10/3/2016 at 11:45 PM, pivot said:

I think I need a refresher on the Bible. What rebellion? I can't remember why Lucifer got cast out of heaven. 

So, Mom's goal is to go back to heaven to live with her children minus Lucifer? 

 

According to the bible, angels have no free will. The sin of Lucifer was not that he wanted to rule heaven but that he wanted to be free to choose what to do. Basically, rebellion against the will of god being automatically overruling his own.

According to the Bible, it was because Lucifer saw himself as equal to or greater than God, and encouraged his supporters to feel the same way and tried to usurp God as the ultimate authority.  As I stated in my earlier post, I'm thinking the show isn't going to go down the theological path too deeply, but it does have some interesting undertones as to Father/son relationships.

 Isaiah 14:12 How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! 13 You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. [3] 14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High."

[Eneya]

On 10/11/2016 at 4:31 PM, lark37 said:

According to the Bible, it was because Lucifer saw himself as equal to or greater than God, and encouraged his supporters to feel the same way and tried to usurp God as the ultimate authority.  As I stated in my earlier post, I'm thinking the show isn't going to go down the theological path too deeply, but it does have some interesting undertones as to Father/son relationships.

 Isaiah 14:12 How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! 13 You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. [3] 14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High."

 

LIKE the most high. LITERALLY having the same free will. :)

[lark37]

On 10/12/2016 at 5:46 PM, Eneya said:

LIKE the most high. LITERALLY having the same free will. :)

I don't want to argue theology here but I completely disagree that the Bible says angels have no free will. Lucifer and the other angels clearly made a choice to try to become equal to God. Jude 1:6 talks about Lucifer deliberately rejecting Gods authority. Rebellion is defined as the act of disobedience to a higher authority. Free will is defined by the ability to choose. Now how the show chooses to interpret this issue we will have to wait to find out;-)

[Eneya]

OK but if you do not want to have a discussion about free will but state adamant position about the topic which you do not want to analyze or question, this makes any further comment moot.

[andipandi]

trixie to her doll: If thine right eye offend thee, pluck it out...

The whole verse from matthew is interestingly about belief in god:

Quote

But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. 7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! 8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. 9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire. 10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. 11For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. 12How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?

Edited June 27, 2019 by andipandi