S05.E05: Rave On

[Primetimer]

A rave at the Peach Pit (yes, really) is where Kelly starts hating Val's guts for real.

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[Primetimer]

...led to this guy. Also, Kelly hates Val, Brandon hates the rave, and we hate agreeing with Brandon for once.

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[AndySmith]

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The perfectly decent figure under the tarps.

Poor Carteris. Somebody in wardrobe really hated her.

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Aaaaand enter the defensive blue-collar bRaying.

And somehow, he and Brandon never bonded over common interests.

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Brandon hates fun

I kind of agree with him too. A rave in a 50s themed diner?

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God, we love Valerie.

She really was a great addition to the show, especially this season. Claire too.

[benteen]

Good lord, TAT just looks so damn cute.

As I recall, this episode also has Jim and Cindy discussing having another kid that was thankfully dropped by the next episode when Jim found out Dylan was broke.  The last thing we need is a baby for Brandon to bray at.

[TeeVee329]

Man, this is kinda a big one.  The introduction of Ray Pruit with one T.  The beginnings of the Peach Pit After Dark.  And most importantly, the start of Kelly and Valerie hating each others' guts and being bitches to each other which, even when it was contrived, I loooved.  I remember the whole thing with Valerie's shoes sooo clearly!

Edited September 20, 2016 by TeeVee329

[SoupThrower]

Feels weird that there is an episode that Brandon doesn't Bray at someone. I guess Kelly picks up that ball and runs with it along with Ray. 

Don't think there was a scene of Steve in the morning with Valerie. I dunno.

The next episode makes little sense at all. Very little sense. 

[Tooch]

OMG KELLY. Really, why are these people so lame that they give a shit if someone smokes a little pot? Her father committed SUICIDE like 3 months ago and maybe it calms her nerves? Maybe she is troubled, but if that's the case she doesn't need your goddamn cat-butt judgment. Kelly sucks so much, and does indeed have terrible hair. I forgot how bad it was, but especially in comparison to Val's gloriously beautiful bob (and face, and boobs, and everything)...Just ugh.

[Nanna]

Really, Kelly - you're at your boyfriend's house, not at your own place. It's really none of your business what goes on. She's soooo boring and judgemental and to make matters worse, this is the start of frumpy Kelly who looks boring all the time. I love that Ray has shown up already, I thought it was much later. He's so delightfully awful. I totally buy that this role ruined his career, but he gave us so much before he became a doctor instead!

[benteen]

It's the hypocrisy with Kelly that drives me so crazy.  People mellow out and change over time.  Logical and understandable.  But it's the "my shit never smelled" attitude that Kelly carries around that is worst.

[TeeVee329]

Val swigging from the flask and then sticking it in her boot is indeed super boss. Gawd she's the best.

[stagmania]

Been absolutely dreading reliving the Ray storyline. Here we go.

[CurlyATX]

My memory of those times is a little fuzzy.  Back then, I can't remember if most folks who were dating assumed it was exclusive unless told otherwise or you assumed the person was dating around until you became "exclusive".  I was in college were a few folks dated but most sorta hooked up with coworkers and then you quit to another crappy café/bagel shop/bookstore job when things fizzled out. 

Kelly seems to want to make sure Val is always an outsider-- even if she has ties to the Walshes that Kelly will never have.  Old Kelly would have loved Val I think.

[AndySmith]

I started college not long after the gang, and most people either did exclusive relationships or just hooked up for the night.

[Petunia13]

Incense doesn't smell like weed unless it's skunk butthole flavored 

[Jmallory]

Well here's when Kelly officially hates Val... For really no good reason. She was looking for a reason when she caught her with weed. When she caught her with Dylan, IT WAS A WRAP!!! Val likes Dylan and anyone who is with Dylan is on Kelly's shit list. Kelly's always been posessive when it came to Dylan...even when she wasn't with him.

[TeeVee329]

I mean, on paper, it makes sense that Kelly wouldn't be happy that her longtime friend Steve was being jerked around by Val.  But it doesn't play that way at all.

[txhorns79]

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I mean, on paper, it makes sense that Kelly wouldn't be happy that her longtime friend Steve was being jerked around by Val.  But it doesn't play that way at all.

I agree.  She's jealous because Val is with Dylan.  If Brenda was still on the show, we'd see Kelly being jealous because Brenda was with Dylan. 

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As I recall, this episode also has Jim and Cindy discussing having another kid that was thankfully dropped by the next episode when Jim found out Dylan was broke.

I can't even imagine the insane parents who would seriously consider having a baby when their only other children are already in college.  You don't start over again once you've already gotten the other two out the door!           

[MerBearStare]

9 hours ago, benteen said:

It's the hypocrisy with Kelly that drives me so crazy.  People mellow out and change over time.  Logical and understandable.  But it's the "my shit never smelled" attitude that Kelly carries around that is worst.

What's that saying? That there's no one more righteous than a reformed whore? From season 5 on Kelly will show some hints of self-awareness - I'm specifically thinking of the convent episode where she thinks to herself, "I slept with my best friend's boyfriend. I slept with my boyfriend's best friend." - but those moments are few and far between. The writers really ruined her character. And all the characters eventually. Except Steve, the lovable oaf.

I don't know if it was intentional or not, but I think the writers did a relatively good job of building up to Ray being abusive. First when he called Donna a rich bitch in this episode, then when he rage smashes the pumpkin in a few episodes. In real life I think those would all be things you look back on and realize that they were total red flags. I feel bad for Jamie Walters #poorjamiewalters, but I mean he's a doctor now and, if I recall correctly, he was briefly engaged to Drew Barrymore back in the early 90's, and that's not nothing.

Edited September 20, 2016 by MerBearStare

[Scarlett45]

2 hours ago, MerBearStare said:

 

I don't know if it was intentional or not, but I think the writers did a relatively good job of building up to Ray being abusive. First when he called Donna a rich bitch in this episode, then when he rage smashes the pumpkin in a few episodes. In real life I think those would all be things you look back on and realize that they were total red flags. I feel bad for Jamie Walters #poorjamiewalters, but I mean he's a doctor now and, if I recall correctly, he was briefly engaged to Drew Barrymore back in the early 90's, and that's not nothing.

The dating violence story line between Ray and Donna was really well done (especially for the time period). The signs were all there from the first meeting, as well as the build, Ray's manipulation, Donna's denial etc. 

[MuuMuuChainsmoker]

@David T. Cole, I appreciated that "Ham Boning" reference.  

[marceline]

Kelly is such a hypocritical twat. I find it hard to believe that someone who grew up in Beverly Hills thinks that pot smoking is such a big deal but I guess that can be blamed on her being the child of an addict. But the way she always turned her issues into a campaign and needed everyone to get on board with her is ridiculous. 

I have to agree that Val is enough to make a straight woman question her place on the Kinsey scale. They did a good job of replacing Brenda. I didn't give Brenda much of a second thought once Val showed up.

[CurlyATX]

1 hour ago, marceline said:

Kelly is such a hypocritical twat. I find it hard to believe that someone who grew up in Beverly Hills thinks that pot smoking is such a big deal but I guess that can be blamed on her being the child of an addict. But the way she always turned her issues into a campaign and needed everyone to get on board with her is ridiculous. 

I have to agree that Val is enough to make a straight woman question her place on the Kinsey scale. They did a good job of replacing Brenda. I didn't give Brenda much of a second thought once Val showed up.

I was thinking the same thing! Pot smoking was so common when I was in school. Kelly was more upset that David was messy and gross than the fact that he was doing meth! When I was in school (same years as the hillsters), pot smoking was low on the drug hierarchy.  The harder stuff (heroine, coke, meth) were more of a concern. 

Kelly knows that Val's been through some serious shit- maybe Val wanted to make herself over and start fresh. Kelly knows all about how hard it is to shake a bad rep.  Later on, doesn't Val help expose/shame someone who had harassed Kelly in HS (was it no-blanket Ross? it was this stupid 5 year HS reunion).

I HATE how they make Kelly ultimately right- like she's got some super street smarts regarding people (scamily and Val). 

As for Val... she's adorable- I loved that bob, and I'm a sucker for dark hair/light eyes but my moving along the Kinsey scale happens when Gina joins! That gal is straight up gorgeous!!!!

[CurlyATX]

15 hours ago, Petunia13 said:

Incense doesn't smell like weed unless it's skunk butthole flavored 

My brother went to a very strict Catholic college (you couldn't have opposite sex members stay in your room past curfew) and one rule was no candles or incense for the reason that it covered up pot smoking. 
I do wonder why Val smoked in the house?  

[gpgurl50]

I was very Team Donna in that talk about Valerie. Like Kelly may be right but who cares? Like literally why would Kelly care if Valerie smoked pot and maybe didn't want to confide in someone she just met about it? They were working hard to restart the rivalry right away.

[itainttippithebird]

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I don't know if it was intentional or not, but I think the writers did a relatively good job of building up to Ray being abusive. 

I've been wondering about this, too - he's totally controlling and gaslight-y from the jump, but I thought I remember that they only turned his character abusive when he asked to leave the show to pursue singing...? Anyone have deetz on this? Because if that's true, then I guess all of this stuff is supposed to read as "bad boy romantic and broody," which is disturbing. Then again, the OG Mad/Bad/Dangerous One himself ALSO did some...what was it, planter-smashing? as a sign of his intense broodiness in season 1, so I almost think they think this kinda shit is legit romantic gesture!

[benteen]

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 Then again, the OG Mad/Bad/Dangerous One himself ALSO did some...what was it, planter-smashing? as a sign of his intense broodiness in season 1, so I almost think they think this kinda shit is legit romantic gesture!

But you don't understand Dylan's pain, man!  His raging tween years almost killed him!

Edited September 20, 2016 by benteen

[kell710]

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Kelly is such a hypocritical twat. I find it hard to believe that someone who grew up in Beverly Hills thinks that pot smoking is such a big deal but I guess that can be blamed on her being the child of an addict. But the way she always turned her issues into a campaign and needed everyone to get on board with her is ridiculous. 

Especially considering in the Season 3 "Electric Slide to end racism" episode, when Kelly's dad flakes on her for dinner, she tells Dylan last time he did it she went to "Cliff Berman's pool house and got high for three days." (Yes, I realize it is sad that I know some dialogue of this show so vividly.) So maybe cut the poor girl who just lost a father to suicide a few months ago some slack.

[AllyB]

4 hours ago, itainttippithebird said:

Then again, the OG Mad/Bad/Dangerous One himself ALSO did some...what was it, planter-smashing? as a sign of his intense broodiness in season 1, so I almost think they think this kinda shit is legit romantic gesture!

Rewatching that, it really was some scary shit. Dylan smashes a plant pot, Brenda runs away, he chases her down as she runs as fast as she can clearly freaked out. He catches her, she screams and he holds her tight not letting her move away as he says he's sorry and then they kiss.

It was the same after the Mexico trip. Jim was a douche to Dylan, sure, but when he decides to apologise to Dylan and be willing to start over with him, Dylan gets in a snit and goes to walk off with a bottle of whiskey. Jim calls him out for turning to alcohol so Dylan smashes the bottle off the wall. I'm no fan of Jim's sexist BS but I'd have been sending Brenda to Paris for a lot longer than 6 weeks to get her away from him.

[TeeVee329]

You know, I had forgotten/was surprised that Donna - the show's most sheltered, naive, "good girl" heroine on the show - wasn't scandalized at all by the pot smoking, thinking it was NBD and advising Kelly as such.

[scarynikki12]

Early Ray was definitely just the latest Brooding Romantic Hero to arrive in the zip.  That his behavior was also red flag after red flag was simply a fortunate coincidence.

[AndySmith]

Remember, early season 1 Donna used to host booze-filled parties at her house when Dr. Marin and Felice were away ;)

[SoupThrower]

Donna probably learned a few things in Houston. Kind of surprising I guess. 

I always thought Kelly was a narc not because it was pot or drugs but because she thinks maybe that Val could be going after Brandon, so maybe a way to curb that in her mind? I don't know. 

I'm more surprised Donna is making videos. It just happened without any info or build up. 

[marceline]

I just remembered something else about his episode that drove me crazy. The idea that David Silver thinks that he in any way has the right to judge another person's intelligence. Claire and Donna didn't even need to leave the house. They had the American Idol of himbos sitting right next to them.

[Scarlett45]

19 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

You know, I had forgotten/was surprised that Donna - the show's most sheltered, naive, "good girl" heroine on the show - wasn't scandalized at all by the pot smoking, thinking it was NBD and advising Kelly as such.

I think Donna had a lot more natural empathy and kindness towards others. It's usually those that are doing the MOST wrong, gossiping etc are shouting from the roof tops that they are being "judged" and others are hypocrites etc. 

People like Donna are more understanding because they don't have to be defensive about their own behavior. 

[TeeVee329]

14 hours ago, AndySmith said:

Remember, early season 1 Donna used to host booze-filled parties at her house when Dr. Marin and Felice were away ;)

Ah, back when her mom was Nancy. ;)

[Halo]

Disclaimer: I watched the first few seasons of this show when it was on, but once I was living on my own without television, I was only a casual watcher and might have missed some nuances (lol). But even back in the 90s, I hated the retroactive canonization of Donna by the writers/producers, which didn't seem to mesh with the way the character was first shown and also seemed like a suck-up to Old Man Spelling. Listening to this podcast has made me appreciate Donna a little more, and hate Saint Kelly a lot more. I totally agree with you all who point out that she has moments where she's the better friend.

[FozzyBear]

Brandon referring to his parents as Jim and Cindy fills me with rage. Face punching rage.

I'd also completely forgotten that Donna gave Kelly really good advise. She was pretty spot in with the whole "who cares. Don't get so worked up about stuff that doesn't involve you" take.

[SoupThrower]

2 hours ago, FozzyBear said:

Brandon referring to his parents as Jim and Cindy fills me with rage. Face punching rage.

 

Yeah....I kind of may of do the same thing kind of. Please hit me.