Divorce - General Discussion

[scrb]

Coming back for season 2 on Sunday.

Will the viewers stay with it until the bitter end like Frances and Robert?

There doesn't seem to be any reviews of the second season from the major outlets yet.

Only this one:

https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2018/01/divorce-hbo-sarah-jessica-parker-season-2-review.html

[Pallas]

Synopsis

Spoiler

After finally signing divorce papers, a financially strapped Robert looks for work and a new living situation, while Frances battles insomnia and her newly complicated relationship with her children. Diane and Nick's new communication technique leads him to make an unexpected decision. Dallas continues her secret fling with Robert's lawyer, Tony Silvercreek.

 

[Gem 10]

Watched the re-runs to get familiar again and was hoping Sara Jessica would FINALLY have a new haircut and get that hair out of her face.  Drives me crazy when she keeps pulling it off her face every 2 seconds.  What's with Molly Shannon and the sex every minute?

[scrb]

Frances' best friends are getting a lot of sex while she's trying to adjust to new life.

Wait until she finds out Dallas is doing Robert's divorce lawyer.

Meanwhile the kids don't like her either?

They're both struggling financially on top of it.

Hmm, tough territory for comedy.

[Inquisitionist]

I watched the first 5 to 7 minutes, then had enough of both SJP's face and THC's face/'stache.  I do like Talia Balsam and Dean Winters, but they're not enough to keep me going.  I'm out.

[Broderbits]

The only point to this show seems to be providing a paycheck for the principals. I like SJP, but couldn't HBO find something interesting to fill the time slot?

[Gem 10]

Molly & husband BORING.  I'm no prude, but can Robert say one sentence without a curse word?  Hmmm .. Frances took half a Xanax.  Here we go with the "addiction" storyline?  I hope not.  What I'm getting from this show is the only people benefiting from this divorce are the lawyers.  They just keep stirring that pot.  Divorce just seems like to much damn trouble, and, I don't recall what Frances's & Robert's trouble was exactly.  Did she just tire of him?  

[Surrealist]

1 hour ago, Gem 10 said:

I don't recall what Frances's & Robert's trouble was exactly.  Did she just tire of him?  

She got bored with him and cheated with another man. I think she was ready to get into a relationship with the other man, until she found out he was messing around with some other men's wives too. 

[EdnasEdibles]

Well, I guess I'm in the minority, but I liked it. I thought it was slow but honest. I liked her feeble attempt to make her kids happy with the trampoline and the breakdown and tears when it didn't work. I like his attempts to have to be a grown-up and figuring out that. The kids taking sides felt honest. The money 

As for Frances & Robert, I think the breakdown was a little more than just "she got tired of him" - He was kind of a rude man child. He kept going after "get rich" plans and she had to work at a job she didn't like to keep everything afloat and put her own dreams on hold so he could chase after hers. He was distant and had an emotional affair with someone else. She cheated. Lots of little problems all adding up. 

[Gem 10]

6 minutes ago, EdnasEdibles said:

Well, I guess I'm in the minority, but I liked it. I thought it was slow but honest. I liked her feeble attempt to make her kids happy with the trampoline and the breakdown and tears when it didn't work. I like his attempts to have to be a grown-up and figuring out that. The kids taking sides felt honest. The money 

As for Frances & Robert, I think the breakdown was a little more than just "she got tired of him" - He was kind of a rude man child. He kept going after "get rich" plans and she had to work at a job she didn't like to keep everything afloat and put her own dreams on hold so he could chase after hers. He was distant and had an emotional affair with someone else. She cheated. Lots of little problems all adding up. 

Well, that's about it in a nutshell.  In other words he was selfish and put himself first.  Probably the number one cause for a divorce.  

[scrb]

He grew that mustache which she hated and went on some expensive fishing trip over Christmas.

Now their divorce is final and they have to negotiate the custody issues, money, etc.

Have to wonder about the show's endgame.  If it goes for a couple more seasons, are they going to make it mostly about post-divorce?  Of course they've established the secondary characters pretty well, her friends mostly, who have their own issues.

I guess they have to show how Frances and Robert cope with single life in addition to still dealing with each other because of the kids.

What if in a couple more seasons, the show ends, assuming it's lasted that long, with a reconciliation?

 

I think people who've watched Catastrophe may be expecting similar levels of repartee and one-liners but on that show, one of the leads is a standup and he probably contributes a lot to the writing and the delivery of those one-liners.  Seems like Horgan is going for something else here, trying to establish a different feel for this show.  SJP is not really for delivering one-liners, while THC might be able to pull some of those off.

[qtpye]

I know the subject matter is dark, but it feels like good writers can squeeze comedy gold from anything.  I tuned in hoping for some laughs, but it was a bit of a boring slog.  The actor really have not inhabited the characters in a way that makes this seem real.  I hope the seasons gets more interesting.

[Armchair Critic]

My say something nice -  I like the music they play on the show.

[StrumminEddy]

I think the show has a good balance of realness and comedy. If it wasn't a comedy, it would just be a depressing drama. Real life divorce is often complicated, expensive, and about the individuals finding themselves again. 

Thank god THC shaved that 'stache'. He is so much more handsome without it.

I'm still "in" on where the rest of the season goes. 

[BingeyKohan]

On the work front for Frances, a new development (since last season) is that she was downsized from her headhunting job, correct? And we're to believe she is living off severance and making a go of the gallery? (which can't be bringing in any income, only sucking it out in the form of rent and utilities, I assume) I think we got that detail in an aside she delivered in this ep. I don't understand how they are making their mortgage on that house (with riverfront access! I don't remember the Hudson being so close last season)

[Pallas]

Frances is forced to deal with Lila's growing resentment toward her. After his coworkers encourage him to get back in the game, Robert reconnects with Janice, who tries to help him live out a fantasy. Diane blindsides Frances with a setup, and Dallas attempts to call things off with Tony Silvercreek.

[Juliegirlj]

I liked it. Francis is going to feel so betrayed when she finds out Dallas is screwing Tony the enemy lawyer. 

No one likes Frances right now, including her kids, her ex, and even Francis herself. 

I have a feeling that what will happen is:

Spoiler

Francis and Robert will end up living together. Her gallery won’t be profitable yet, and Robert needs a place to live until he flips some houses, but most of all ~ for their kids. The kids want to live with Dad, but it’s doubtful he wants that sole responsibility. 

I love Tony the shady lawyer. 

[scrb]

Some FaceTime call.  Hope that wasn't the last of Dallas and Tony.  Too entertaining for that to end.

Honeymoon is over for Diane and Nick again.  

Looks like they want to have the daughter hate Frances for awhile but the child actor may not be able to carry it off over several eps.

Rough time for these people.

[Gem 10]

What I would like to know is how they are living in Westchester, N.Y. On the Hudson River when he's making $20 an hour and she has the art gallery upkeep and two kids?  Either they have a stash tucked away ( doubt it) or a Fairy Godmother somewhere.  Unrealistic !   And, no offense, because I love SJP, but she looked terrible in this episode between the heavy eye makeup and that long hair parted in the middle as usual.  Both do not suit her.

[Caseysgirl]

I'm trying to enjoy this show but none of the characters are particularly appealing.  While I feel for Francie's struggle with her children, what exactly makes her any worse a parent than their Father, who seemed rather inept at parenting as well. Both her kids really seem to hate her and are more forgiving of him.  

[EdnasEdibles]

SJP had chin length wavy hair in one of the seasons of Sex & the City and I always thought that was the most flattering hairstyle for her.

I'll divulge that I'm currently going through a separation so a lot of this show speaks to me on that level. Frances & her husband did drive me crazy with the school event though. School events should be neutral territory. Both parents should be able to go to a choir or a night event even if it's not their night. But also, Robert should have discussed this idea with her and not just shown up unannounced. Come on, dude. 

I can't quite grasp why the daughter is being such a bitch to her. Do the kids know about the affair?  That's the only thing I can think. Is Robert just the more "fun dad" person? Even if she knows about the affair . . . which I don't think the kids do? But even if she did, she would also then know that her father called the cops on her mom which is also a jerk move. So I'm not sure why she's decided that Frances is the devil and is not in the family.

[Suck It Trebek]

1 hour ago, EdnasEdibles said:

I can't quite grasp why the daughter is being such a bitch to her.

The kids are going through their own emotional upheaval and don't have the life skills yet to know how to deal with it. Frances is the easy target because she's there and is trying to maintain a semblance of stability. Robert is definitely the fun one and is easier to get along with - no rules, etc. Plus, teenagers are just assholes sometimes even without divorce. Having said all that, man,  I too would have lost my mind on my child if she behaved that way. 

[cpcathy]

I laughed when Frances said she can't bake. Did she inherit Carrie Bradshaw's cooking skills? What mom of two hasn't baked a few cupcakes in her day?

I'm basically watching this for Thomas Haden Church. Loved when he told her he could have had a threesome with a dude.

[txhorns79]

Quote

The kids are going through their own emotional upheaval and don't have the life skills yet to know how to deal with it. Frances is the easy target because she's there and is trying to maintain a semblance of stability. Robert is definitely the fun one and is easier to get along with - no rules, etc. Plus, teenagers are just assholes sometimes even without divorce. Having said all that, man,  I too would have lost my mind on my child if she behaved that way. 

I felt for Frances in that "F You" moment.  Yes, a parent is supposed to be more mature than their child, but it still was a nice moment. 

[msrachelj]

On 1/22/2018 at 5:26 AM, Gem 10 said:

What I would like to know is how they are living in Westchester, N.Y. On the Hudson River when he's making $20 an hour and she has the art gallery upkeep and two kids?  Either they have a stash tucked away ( doubt it) or a Fairy Godmother somewhere.  Unrealistic !   And, no offense, because I love SJP, but she looked terrible in this episode between the heavy eye makeup and that long hair parted in the middle as usual.  Both do not suit her.

agree on all counts. the home prices there are astronomical as well as taxes. this always pisses me off as i sit here in my pos house in rural but**** usa having slaved away all my life just to afford this. 

sarah has a great figure, she can look much prettier, i know it shouldn't matter, but ...hollywood. anyway, yes, the long hair is doing a an over 50 woman no favors. it needs some style. go shorter, change the part and maybe color it. 

9 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I felt for Frances in that "F You" moment.  Yes, a parent is supposed to be more mature than their child, but it still was a nice moment. 

and the little bitch deserved it. she is not a very strong mother. that girl is going to step all over her in her teenage years if the mother doesn't get a grip and dish out some discipline.

16 hours ago, cpcathy said:

I laughed when Frances said she can't bake. Did she inherit Carrie Bradshaw's cooking skills? What mom of two hasn't baked a few cupcakes in her day?

I'm basically watching this for Thomas Haden Church. Loved when he told her he could have had a threesome with a dude.

baking is pretty easy if you don't get into the complicated recipes. i never buy it when a woman says she can't bake. love thomas haden church. he looks better clean shaved. loved him since wings. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I can't quite grasp why the daughter is being such a bitch to her. Do the kids know about the affair?  That's the only thing I can think. Is Robert just the more "fun dad" person? Even if she knows about the affair . . . which I don't think the kids do? But even if she did, she would also then know that her father called the cops on her mom which is also a jerk move. So I'm not sure why she's decided that Frances is the devil and is not in the family.

Both kids probably blame their mother for the divorce. Even if they don't know for sure who asked for it or initiated it, it should be an easy guess based on their mother's attitude towards their father and the fact that it was their father who had to leave. And it's possible they've always been closer to their father anyway. 

The scene between Robert and Janice was a bit silly. Who the hell jumps right to "do you want me to pee on you" as the first suggestion of what he might want her to do? That lady's weird. Run, Robert . . . run.

[iMonrey]

I bet SJP got a 2-season guarantee from HBO and that's the only reason this show is back for a second season. I don't think the first season did very well in the ratings nor did it set the critics abuzz. 

I can appreciate that people who have gone through a divorce can find some level of amusement and perhaps comfort in it, but everyone on the show is just so damn miserable it's hard to watch let alone enjoy.

And I, for one, think THC looks better with the 'stache. 

[OldButHappy]

On January 23, 2018 at 3:54 PM, iMonrey said:

but everyone on the show is just so damn miserable it's hard to watch let alone enjoy

I've not seen anything even remotely funny in two seasons.  And it gets worse each episode (for me....just an opinion).  I came to the forum to see what people like about it.

[Pallas]

Frances is inspired by an unknown artist; Robert encounters a sexy, opinionated realtor.

[Gem 10]

BORING !!!    Where is the comedy?  I can't take Molly Shannon at all.  The only good parts were Talia and Robert's divorce lawyer.  I doubt there will be a season 3.

[scrb]

I thought it was really well done, Frances pursuing the artist and Robert having chemistry with the realtor.

Each of the characters, including Diane and Nick, are getting some shadings beyond the over the top cartoons that they initially presented as.

No it's not one joke after the other but I don't think their lives are meant just to be jokes.  It's a dramatic situation, each of them having to build new lives after divorce.  And even the characters who haven't gone through divorce are trying to find new passions or meaning in their lives.

Thats not to say there won't be more hijinks.  Looks like Diane is bored so that could lead to mischief.

[EdnasEdibles]

Diane is absolutely bored and it kind of drives me crazy because she has enough money that she could easily open her own business. 

That's going to be uncomfortable for the therapist when she figures out who the realtor has met. Although she won't be able to say anything to Frances. I actually had a similar moment with my therapist. There was a situation in my life with someone and it was something I discussed quite often and I guess I eventually released enough details that she realized she knew the person I had been talking about. She disclosed that to me so I knew but reiterated that she'd never be able to tell our mutual friend anything that I'd said in therapy. 

The thing with the painter was a little strange but I liked that Frances is trying to develop her own confidence in her skills and her business. I'm glad she stood up to Diane about the "partnership" - she does seem to be growing as a person - or trying to grow - and I like that. I even liked that she told the guy she's not ready to date. I have a feeling it won't last long but it's good that she's trying to go about things the right way. 

[cpcathy]

Do we have an inkling as to why Frances would not sell the painting? Why not get that painter a sale and boost business for the gallery? I mostly think Frances is not smart at all.

[EdnasEdibles]

1 hour ago, cpcathy said:

Do we have an inkling as to why Frances would not sell the painting? Why not get that painter a sale and boost business for the gallery? I mostly think Frances is not smart at all.

I think she wants to do a whole show of that artist's work. I think she sees that piece as leverage - as the cornerstone to a larger show. If she were to sell it now, she wouldn't have anything else. She'd be under no obligation to give any profit to the artist but even if she did, that could easily then be the end of the talks for a larger show.

I think the party and the ugly weird sculpture art were there to give Frances some doubt about whether she knows what she's doing. Is a gallery in Hastings worth it? Does she even know what makes for good art? And finding this new artist that no one else has could be the thing that puts her on the map. It would show what kind of gallery she wants to have and the kind of art she wants to display. I think she saw the other woman's interest as reinforcement that it is a good piece and she does know what she's doing but she realizes it's the foundation for a larger gallery opening with more pieces. 

[cpcathy]

Thanks for that. Now, is Hastings a fictional place or is it real? The characters keep mentioning folk art, did Frances make as much of a mistake as I think she did in putting her gallery in Hastings?

[scrb]

There must be a lot of rich people in the area.  Nick worked in finance, presumably commuting from there to Wall Street.

Frances also went to the city for her previous job and I think her affair was somewhere in Manhattan as well.

Of course a lot of Manhattanites will consider anything north of Manhattan to be "upstate."

[Gem 10]

Hastings on the Hudson is real .. Route 9 .. East side of the river.  Affluent area.  

[txhorns79]

I liked the episode a lot.  I will say that in real life, I'm sure Sylvia would have just called the police and looked to get a restraining order once Frances showed up at her home at 1AM.  However, I liked the storyline, and I laughed when Sylvia compared the situation to her showing up at Frances' office to ask to see her labia.  And I liked the moment a lot where Frances got a little validation that Sylvia's painting was good.  

I also liked Robert's storyline, and thought he and Becki Newton had a very nice chemistry, even if the age difference made me question how really interested she would have been in him.   

[msrachelj]

On 1/28/2018 at 11:07 PM, Gem 10 said:

BORING !!!    Where is the comedy?  I can't take Molly Shannon at all.  The only good parts were Talia and Robert's divorce lawyer.  I doubt there will be a season 3.

agree. i really do not like molly shannon. 

[luna1122]

I'm another who can only take Molly Shannon in very small doses, and preferably not in her underwear or flashing neighbors.

I also can't possibly see what Becki Newton would see in Robert. He's loud and boorish and tho he looks a lot better without the pornstache, he's also nearly 20 years older than her, and, well, he's not especially appealing. (I think THC is cute, but Robert, no).

And yeah, Frances would have wound up in jail if she showed up at my door at 1 am demanding to be let inside my apartment. Still, I like the bare bones of this storyline, with her discovering new talent and hoping to stage a show with the new artist.

[BingeyKohan]

It's nice seeing Frances invested in something, although I wish she had a little bit more of a sophisticated language for expressing what she liked about the painting or the artist's work. 

So happy to have had no kids this week.

This show makes me wonder how much SJP's sense of personal brand preservation fights against Sharon Horgan's natural storytelling instincts. (knowing that SJP is a high level producer who likely can overrule Horgan) For example, Frances' phase of seeking out sexual satisfaction during her affair happened mostly off-camera, before we met her, and post divorce (i.e. in the scenes SJP has had to actively play) Frances has shown no signs of being a sexual being. It just doesn't seem like the kind of lead character Horgan would be interested in exploring, minus a star who has particular ideas about her character's "likability,' etc (not that I would find Frances unlikable if she let loose a little, of course, I'm just projecting as to why Frances is relatively put together when storytelling conventional wisdom would call for her to be more complicated - the F.U. to her own daughter notwithstanding.)

[scrb]

I like Molly Shannon in most things she's done, from appearances on Seinfeld to the current reboot of Will &Grace.

[EdnasEdibles]

5 hours ago, BingeyKohan said:

It's nice seeing Frances invested in something, although I wish she had a little bit more of a sophisticated language for expressing what she liked about the painting or the artist's work. 

So happy to have had no kids this week.

This show makes me wonder how much SJP's sense of personal brand preservation fights against Sharon Horgan's natural storytelling instincts. (knowing that SJP is a high level producer who likely can overrule Horgan) For example, Frances' phase of seeking out sexual satisfaction during her affair happened mostly off-camera, before we met her, and post divorce (i.e. in the scenes SJP has had to actively play) Frances has shown no signs of being a sexual being. It just doesn't seem like the kind of lead character Horgan would be interested in exploring, minus a star who has particular ideas about her character's "likability,' etc (not that I would find Frances unlikable if she let loose a little, of course, I'm just projecting as to why Frances is relatively put together when storytelling conventional wisdom would call for her to be more complicated - the F.U. to her own daughter notwithstanding.)

This is a really good point about SJP. Her character is much less flawed this season - first season she had the affair but this season she's been the suffering "good one" who's trying oh so hard to be good. I'd like her to be a little more flawed - exhausted, horny, tired, upset, rejected, annoyed that Robert is the more popular one . . . 

[iMonrey]

It still feels to me like SJP and Thomas Haden Church are in two different shows. SJP is acting in a dramedy while THC is acting in a more traditional sitcom. It's weird. We know that SJP can do campy comedy (Hocus Pocus) and we know THC can do drama (Sideways). But the two actors simply aren't on the same page here. There's this strange disconnect that doesn't quite work.

[cpcathy]

Great point about SJP. I thought Carrie Bradshaw was one of the prudiest "sex writers" there ever could be on TV, and it seems to be bleeding over into this show. The other two main actresses on the show are the ones getting frisky, not SJP.

[Corgi-ears]

On 1/31/2018 at 12:19 AM, BingeyKohan said:

This show makes me wonder how much SJP's sense of personal brand preservation fights against Sharon Horgan's natural storytelling instincts. (knowing that SJP is a high level producer who likely can overrule Horgan)

Perhaps tellingly, none of the Season 2 eps we've seen so far have been written by Horgan. Her involvement with Divorce is, in general, fairly murky to me. She created the show, sure, but Season 1 had Paul Simms as its showrunner, who then exited (because of, wait for it, "creative differences"), and Jenny Bicks took over. The same Deadline article says Horgan continues to be "integrally involved creatively." But she is clearly more active (acting, writing) on Catastrophe, and recently signed an overall deal with Amazon. My guess is that Horgan is really not the controlling voice of Divorce any more.

[BingeyKohan]

13 hours ago, Corgi-ears said:

Perhaps tellingly, none of the Season 2 eps we've seen so far have been written by Horgan. Her involvement with Divorce is, in general, fairly murky to me. She created the show, sure, but Season 1 had Paul Simms as its showrunner, who then exited (because of, wait for it, "creative differences"), and Jenny Bicks took over. The same Deadline article says Horgan continues to be "integrally involved creatively." But she is clearly more active (acting, writing) on Catastrophe, and recently signed an overall deal with Amazon. My guess is that Horgan is really not the controlling voice of Divorce any more.

Interesting! I wonder if this show is a little like UnReal, in that that one was much better when Marti Noxon was heavily involved (although unlike with that show maybe we never even really got to see what a true Sharon Horgan version of Divorce would have been like)

[NutMeg]

6 hours ago, BingeyKohan said:

Interesting! I wonder if this show is a little like UnReal, in that that one was much better when Marti Noxon was heavily involved (although unlike with that show maybe we never even really got to see what a true Sharon Horgan version of Divorce would have been like)

Yeah, here we have the opposite, I'd say this season (well, last episode) is globally better than the first season. But all the previous posts are very interesting regarding the dynamics between writers/producers/actors and are probably spot on on some of the issues in this show.

[love2lovebadtv]

On 1/22/2018 at 9:44 AM, EdnasEdibles said:

SJP had chin length wavy hair in one of the seasons of Sex & the City and I always thought that was the most flattering hairstyle for her.

I'll divulge that I'm currently going through a separation so a lot of this show speaks to me on that level. Frances & her husband did drive me crazy with the school event though. School events should be neutral territory. Both parents should be able to go to a choir or a night event even if it's not their night. But also, Robert should have discussed this idea with her and not just shown up unannounced. Come on, dude. 

I can't quite grasp why the daughter is being such a bitch to her. Do the kids know about the affair?  That's the only thing I can think. Is Robert just the more "fun dad" person? Even if she knows about the affair . . . which I don't think the kids do? But even if she did, she would also then know that her father called the cops on her mom which is also a jerk move. So I'm not sure why she's decided that Frances is the devil and is not in the family.

I guess this is an unpopular opinion but I prefer SJP with longer hair, as it seems to balance out her face shape a little. 

I 100% agree that parents should be able to attend school events even if it's not their night. He didn't discuss it with her because he didn't know about it but he could have sent a text or called, like "Hey, I just realized the event is happening and I'd like to stop by to support Lila." Lila has been disrespectful since before Frances even thought about divorce. She cursed at her mother in the very first episode, which I thought was atrocious. And Lila's closeness with her dad seems to have always been a thing. Frances commuted to NYC, worked long hours, had an affair (her daughter didn't know but that was more time away from home), can't cook/bake, felt guilty and didn't discipline Lila. Robert cooked, acted goofy with her, baked Irish soda bread, and is generally less awkward with her.  It makes sense to me that Lila is closer to Robert. She doesn't know about the mismanagement of money or that her mother only took the city job with the long hours to support them while her dad pursued his dream. She doesn't know about his emotional affair either.  

On 1/22/2018 at 2:00 PM, cpcathy said:

I laughed when Frances said she can't bake. Did she inherit Carrie Bradshaw's cooking skills? What mom of two hasn't baked a few cupcakes in her day?

I'm basically watching this for Thomas Haden Church. Loved when he told her he could have had a threesome with a dude.

1

One who has Robert to make Irish soda bread. 

She seems really distant and I'm sure she could whip up cupcakes if she had to (actually, her kids should be able make box mix cupcakes at their ages) but I can't see her making anything more than that, like a dish related to the kids' heritage. 

[Pallas]

When Robert's father falls ill, Frances accompanies Robert to his hometown in Ohio, where they reminisce about happier times.