S04.E08: To Have and To Hold

[Evil Queen]

1 hour ago, Gobears said:

I don't think Nick is gay, autistic, etc. although both he and Sonia come across as very awkward and uncomfortable on camera (especially Nick). It's fine that he isn't attracted to Sonia but it has been very dishonest of him to keep saying in THs that he is attracted to her, wants to have sex with her in the future, etc. when that isn't the truth. 

If I was paired with someone I didn't find attractive, I wouldn't lie and tell the experts that my marriage was at a 8 or 9 out of 10. I would be more straightforward about not being attracted to them in which case the experts probably wouldn't be pressuring me to be intimate with them...

But that is what the "experts" have done. When they are telling Sonia they see a fire there between them or to get them to open up and find a way to be more affectionate in some way with each other..it is them telling her (and Nick) to be more intimate so it will lead to sex. Heck the one sent them to that wacko Tantric sex lady. If that wasn't pressuring them I don't know what is but it seemed that way to me. Heck they did it with others in past seasons too. If the "experts" can't see that Nick is full of it and not into Sonia they should find new jobs (which they should anyway IMO) because we have seen it from the get go. I would bet we would see it even more so being in a room talking to them. Either way he shouldn't be lying to the "experts", Sonia and everyone else. There was no point in it and in the end just made himself the asshole of the season.  

[Snarklepuss]

1 hour ago, Booboomonkey said:

I would love to see each one of you paired with someone you dont find attractive, and then have huge pressure from everyone to be intimate with them.  How would you feel?

I have been in that situation and I know how it feels very well, but that wouldn't make me act like an immature asshole who acts especially hurtful to the person.  Nick's being "quiet" about it is not because he's avoiding hurting Sonia's or anyone's feelings, it's because he's avoiding not looking good to family and the viewing public, IMHO.  Unfortunately he ends up looking WORSE because since he doesn't know how to express himself very well he holds it all inside until it ends up coming out in a blowup.  I think he really cares very little how anyone might feel.  His communication skills and empathy are about zero on top of his being selfish and immature.   I have been on the other end of that equation too and although being let down hurt it was better to find out tactfully than to endure silence and lies for weeks on end until I demand an answer and then have to suffer the hurt of a major blowup. 

[Snarklepuss]

2 hours ago, Booboomonkey said:

Why does nick have to be labeled gay, bi, weird, into casual sex, autistic, etc because he isnt attractive to a slightly "ok" looking girl? Why all these crazy theories and over analyzing?  You guys are acting like she is a victoria's secret model and theres no way he couldnt be attracted to her. Hes not attracted to her. ITs really that simple.

I don't have a problem with Nick not finding Sonia attractive for whatever reason, even if it is one or all of the above.  Obviously even attractive people are not always found attractive by everyone.  I do have a problem with Nick acting like an asshole to Sonia and lying to the experts and the camera about finding her attractive, then engaging in nasty witholding behavior because he doesn't happen to LIKE communicating even if doing so would give her the answer and the closure she needs to be able to proceed.  Give me a break!  And you can't even chalk up his difficulties with communication to introversion.  I'm a card carrying introvert and my communication skills are light years ahead of his.  Healthy introverts get over any hang ups about communicating when it would be the kind or mature thing to do.  Nick's difficulties with communication are dysfunctional.

[Jack Sampson]

2 hours ago, Booboomonkey said:

Why does nick have to be labeled gay, bi, weird, into casual sex, autistic, etc because he isnt attractive to a slightly "ok" looking girl? Why all these crazy theories and over analyzing?  You guys are acting like she is a victoria's secret model and theres no way he couldnt be attracted to her. Hes not attracted to her. ITs really that simple. 

I for one do not find Sonia attractive, shes weird looking and has a weird needy personality to match. 

I would love to see each one of you paired with someone you dont find attractive, and then have huge pressure from everyone to be intimate with them.  How would you feel?

I've said from the beginning that she's not attractive...and that Nick isn't gay.

But, faced with a similar situation, I'd respond exactly how I've said people should respond in past seasons - have sex.  Give sex a try as a Hail Mary pass to see if anything might possibly happen.  Maybe Sonia makes up for her looks with unbelievable bedroom skills.  Probably not, but I'd give it a try.  Of course, then everyone would be calling me an ass for just using her.

[Blissfool]

9 hours ago, Booboomonkey said:

Why does nick have to be labeled gay, bi, weird, into casual sex, autistic, etc because he isnt attractive to a slightly "ok" looking girl?

I do think he's gay, but not because he's not attracted to Sonia. (Hey, i don't think I'm gay because I'm not attracted to The Rock. Although, I do get some gasps and funny looks whenever I let this fact be known.)

[gonecrackers]

9 hours ago, Jack Sampson said:

I've said from the beginning that she's not attractive...and that Nick isn't gay.

But, faced with a similar situation, I'd respond exactly how I've said people should respond in past seasons - have sex.  Give sex a try as a Hail Mary pass to see if anything might possibly happen.  Maybe Sonia makes up for her looks with unbelievable bedroom skills.  Probably not, but I'd give it a try.  Of course, then everyone would be calling me an ass for just using her.

She's not attractive to you - that's your opinion & you're entitled to it, but you can't speak for everyone.. Almost everyone seems to be attractive to someone. But attractiveness in general is really in the eye of the beholder for the most part.

I agree he's not gay (my opinion- could be wrong). And I agree that you'd be called quite a few things if you 'tried her out' for sex. If there's one thing I respect Nick for it would be for not having sex with Sonia (& that would probably be the only thing).

Edited September 17, 2016 by gonecrackers
clarifications

[humbleopinion]

Yes, but Nick fornicated with Sonia's mind...

[IrishPirate]

Sonia and Nick: there's such a disconnect with the enthusiasm and affection Nick shows to his dogs. Sonia has to watch him with the dogs, has to put up with the dogs all over her, and can't get two words out of him unprompted. His actions keep saying, "See, I am fun and lovable when I want to be. I just don't care about trying with you."

[Passthepopcorn]

I don't want Sonia to make a move. He has given her plenty of cues that sex is a no no for him (at least "right now", like he says). Save your dignity, girl. Why waste your time with someone who has to think so hard to decide if they like you or not? No way. A man who is crazy about her deserves it. Sorry, no free samples for Nick (not that he wants them :/ )

[Snarklepuss]

1 hour ago, gonecrackers said:

She's not attractive to you - that's your opinion & you're entitled to it, but you can't speak for everyone.. Almost everyone seems to be attractive to someone. But attractiveness in general is really in the eye of the beholder for the most part.

This is so true.  I doubt even Nick would say that Sonia is unattractive, period, while he would admit that he doesn't find her attractive himself.  I think he may have realized she was physically attractive to at least some people so he was hoping he'd be converted in time, but it didn't happen.   I can remember dating some of THE most technically handsome men out there who just didn't do anything for me.  Perhaps its a combination of personality and appearance that can make the difference.  I once saw a man who was a ringer for Mr. Snarklepuss (strangely enough he was playing bagpipes in a band at a Scottish fair and Mr. Snarkle is of Irish/Scottish descent).  He was ahead of me on line to get a meat pie at a food truck so I had an opportunity to observe him talking to other people.  His personality put me off so much I found myself being turned off by his appearance too!   Also, when I was younger Brad Pitt was all the rage and it seemed like every woman I knew swooned over him.  I realized he was "technically" handsome from an esthetic standpoint, but he never registered even a little bit on my Richter scale.  In fact, I am sure that if the "experts" on MAFS had matched me with him I would have admitted that he was technically "my type" physically based on my history of men I had been involved with before, but somehow there was just no spark there.  Nick may be experiencing a similar phenomenon and not even understand it.  I don't even understand it.  It's that "je ne sais quoi" thing again.

[Neurochick]

I don't think Nick is gay because if that were to come out, it would be awful for him.  The show and Sonia could sue him for fraud.  What if one of the questions people are asked is about their sexual orientation?  If someone said they were straight and they weren't, that's fraud.  Yes, people are in the closet and don't want their families to know the truth, but there is a huge difference between hiding in the closet, and going on a TV show and doing it.  

[jamblastx]

1 hour ago, Snarklepuss said:

This is so true.  I doubt even Nick would say that Sonia is unattractive, period, while he would admit that he doesn't find her attractive himself.  I think he may have realized she was physically attractive to at least some people so he was hoping he'd be converted in time, but it didn't happen.   I can remember dating some of THE most technically handsome men out there who just didn't do anything for me.  Perhaps its a combination of personality and appearance that can make the difference.  I once saw a man who was a ringer for Mr. Snarklepuss (strangely enough he was playing bagpipes in a band at a Scottish fair and Mr. Snarkle is of Irish/Scottish descent).  He was ahead of me on line to get a meat pie at a food truck so I had an opportunity to observe him talking to other people.  His personality put me off so much I found myself being turned off by his appearance too!   Also, when I was younger Brad Pitt was all the rage and it seemed like every woman I knew swooned over him.  I realized he was "technically" handsome from an esthetic standpoint, but he never registered even a little bit on my Richter scale.  In fact, I am sure that if the "experts" on MAFS had matched me with him I would have admitted that he was technically "my type" physically based on my history of men I had been involved with before, but somehow there was just no spark there.  Nick may be experiencing a similar phenomenon and not even understand it.  I don't even understand it.  It's that "je ne sais quoi" thing again.

I couldn't agree more.  I, like Jack Sampson, do not find Sonia physically attractive at all however I can see why other men might.  That said, personality and attitude can also overcome someone who is 'not my type' and in that case, Sonia's lack of confidence and communication skills would put me off even more so.  But hey, to each his own.

My ex-wife was not my traditional physical type either but I loved her personality and attitude so much so that when we together as a couple I truly thought she was the most beautiful and sexiest woman on the planet.  After we split, it took me close to a year, but that fuzzy covered lens was wiped clean and I don't even remotely see her that way.

Also to echo Snarklepuss' post, Charlize Theron is technically a beautiful woman and on paper should be right in my wheelhouse when it comes to 'types' but she does nothing for me.  I will add as a disclaimer, that if Ms. Theron is somehow reading this and is somehow even mildly interested in me, yes I would give it try....you're welcome Charlize :) 

[love2lovebadtv]

On 9/14/2016 at 2:56 PM, Vinyasa said:

After last night, I am kinda, sorta, maybe thinking Sonia would have been good matched with David.

Seems like she would appreciate a guy like him and he would be attracted to her in time.

Thoughts??

100 times yes! I mentioned this (or someone else mentioned it and I agreed) in another thread. Ashley could have been with Nick because even if he's not her physical type, she would also rather be hugged up with her dog and would be OK with no touching. 

Edited September 21, 2016 by love2lovebadtv

[love2lovebadtv]

On 9/14/2016 at 2:56 PM, Evil Queen said:

Dude is not shy at all. That is not why I have said he is gay either. There is so much more there that led to it. The scene with him and one of his friends really spoke volumes to me. 

Why is it a bad career decision to be a social worker? Just because she isn't making a ton doesn't mean she wants a rich man (which IMO Nick is not). He has his own debt and wasn't it more than what she had? All he does is push his clothing line on the show. Wouldn't be surprised either if they are in his rental too so he can advertise it as seen on MAFS to drum up more business. He wouldn't be the first person to go along with a show to push their businesses no matter what the show was. They have a guy smoking pot that slipped through and "experts" that are oblivious to the fact that there is no "fire" between these too but the one seems to thing there is and pushing Sonia to believe it. I don't see her as "clingy" or "un-slim" either. I think anyone in this situation would want to know where they stand with the person they were matched with. Which instead of yelling later on he doesn't like her he should have been upfront with her. This is the totally another Ashley/David situation. The one comes off looking desperate because the other one won't admit they aren't attracted. Yet here we now have it as Nick/Sonia. 

I don't think it's a bad career decision to be a social worker. However, I don't think it's the smartest decision to be that much in debt for an education she's not using. A bachelor's degree in social work should not require so much debt since it's a degree you can get at many public universities. Plus the MSW degree is needed for a more successful career in social work. I don't think Sonia has an MSW or if she does (highly doubt it) she's not using it. The job she has in a nonprofit could probably be filled by anyone with a human services degree from a public college that didn't require $80k worth of debt. Nick has his own student loans but they're far less than hers and he's in a field with more earning potential. Actually, Sonia has earning potential as well if she has the MSW but she's not leveraging it. Or if she's willing to do something besides the nonprofit work. Being single and not having kids, she's had time to pursue other options. Being a social worker isn't the problem; it's having borrowed a ton of money for an education that doesn't suit her work. I have lots of social workers in my circle. The only one who doesn't make a decent salary is the one who doesn't have the MSW and didn't pursue better paying opportunities. 

[Evil Queen]

20 minutes ago, love2lovebadtv said:

On 9/14/2016 at 11:56 AM, Evil Queen said:

I don't think it's a bad career decision to be a social worker. However, I don't think it's the smartest decision to be that much in debt for an education she's not using. A bachelor's degree in social work should not require so much debt since it's a degree you can get at many public universities. Plus the MSW degree is needed for a more successful career in social work. I don't think Sonia has an MSW or if she does (highly doubt it) she's not using it. The job she has in a nonprofit could probably be filled by anyone with a human services degree from a public college that didn't require $80k worth of debt. Nick has his own student loans but they're far less than hers and he's in a field with more earning potential. Actually, Sonia has earning potential as well if she has the MSW but she's not leveraging it. Or if she's willing to do something besides the nonprofit work. Being single and not having kids, she's had time to pursue other options. Being a social worker isn't the problem; it's having borrowed a ton of money for an education that doesn't suit her work. I have lots of social workers in my circle. The only one who doesn't make a decent salary is the one who doesn't have the MSW and didn't pursue better paying opportunities. 

Sadly in this day and age though the jobs aren't always there either. There are so many people in debt thanks to student loans and they were not able to find the jobs they wanted and went to school for. We really have no idea how the jobs are there for it and if she wants more than she does now at this time. As well as did she ever say where she went to school and how much education she has had for the job? I know that doesn't help with cost and will end up more depending on where one goes. Yet I don't find fault in those people with student loan debt. Not in this day and age when higher paying jobs are harder and harder to come by now. 

  With what Nick does, things can happen there as well. Renting places out to people is not a guaranteed amount of income for a person. You have to take into consideration that on top of it you have to put back money into those places as well to make sure they are kept nice and look great. Making sure any last minute issues that might pop up are taken care of, insurance, and so on. I, honestly, can't see his clothing line taking off and making him money. So he puts in money there and if it fails he losses money there. Plus could be stuck with merchandise he can't get rid of. LOL

[Jellybeans]

Lots of people are not aware of his brand either. 

[Passthepopcorn]

Talking about the technically attractive people, I'd say that for me it is Tom Brady. Lol! Even though I like that type (I like Matt Damon, Benedict Cumberbatch, John Cena, etc) for some reason or no reason at all I can't stand him. Zero interest. That is one of the reasons why agreeing to do this show is so insane, there are things nobody can control until you are face to face with the person. 

[gonecrackers]

7 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Yes, but Nick fornicated with Sonia's mind...

I'm not sure because he did make comments that were meant to keep her away, &, I don't think he said any of the compliments to her that he said in the TH's.

[Happyfatchick]

20 hours ago, Booboomonkey said:

Why does nick have to be labeled gay, bi, weird, into casual sex, autistic, etc because he isnt attracted to a slightly "ok" looking girl? Why all these crazy theories and over analyzing?  You guys are acting like she is a victoria's secret model and theres no way he couldnt be attracted to her. Hes not attracted to her. ITs really that simple. 

I for one do not find Sonia attractive, shes weird looking and has a weird needy personality to match. 

I would love to see each one of you paired with someone you dont find attractive, and then have huge pressure from everyone to be intimate with them.  How would you feel?

Nick???

[nlkm9]

 would love to see each one of you paired with someone you dont find attractive, and then have huge pressure from everyone to be intimate with them.  How would you feel?

 

well if I was on a reality show called married at first sight, lol I guess i would have to be incredibly open minded:):)

[humbleopinion]

Or Nick's public pool toilet hook up?

[ChristmasJones]

I find myself wondering how Tom would be acting if he was not attracted to the woman he was paired with. 

Not that he is some sort of perfect male, but just as a contrast in personality styles to Nick's, if he was faced with the same dilemma- being on this show while not attracted.  I wonder how he would handle that.

Edited September 18, 2016 by ChristmasJones

[LennieBriscoe]

It's called "Married at First Sight." On television. With cameras and mic-packs. 

So I don't wanna hear from "shy," "introverted," "not on camera," "just met," or any other suggestion that these six people didn't know the premise or the expectations, or that any slack should be cut for them. 

[Lola16]

Sonia looked smoking hot on the wine tasting date night.  I want that dress.

[StayingAfterSunday]

On 9/16/2016 at 7:40 PM, Verojama said:

I personally think nick is strange, monotone no face reactions and yes only to the couselor and tge blond psychologist but not sonia.. I think sonia is the attractive better then lilly and heather... But she is a bit slow motion though its weird..

Heather shocked me with no makeup huge glasses... I just dont understand how she disconnected so fast.. She didnt even give Derek a chance like everything was pissing her off then she starting with the emotionally exhausted ... I am Not team heather....

Nick is strange. And as others have said, he hasn't been honest. Not with the experts, not with Sonia and, maybe, not even with himself.  I think he may want to be something he's not.  Maybe, as the result of being socially shy (as per his mother and himself), his interactions with the opposite sex have been few. It could be that he has romanticized women - idealized them, in a sense - to a point where a real-live woman leaves him numb.  Oddly enough, Nick gave a different impression, at least very early on, during the wedding; as Sonia started down the aisle, he said, "I'll take that," which struck me as the more genteel way of saying, "I'd do her."  Maybe my mind is in the gutter, but that's how it interpreted Nick's words. 

About Heather:  Heather didn't sign up for the show because she wanted to be married to just anyone. She took a risk, hoping that "someone" turned out to be Prince Charming. It wasn't. She gambled and lost. As for why Derek didn't fit her idea of the ideal man, there are too many reasons to list. I think she was turned off the moment he opened his mouth.   For what it's worth, I cannot stand hearing Derek talk.  Despite his articulate and organized way of speaking, it always sounds as though he is reading from a prepared speech. That, and the nasal quality of his voice (probably from all that smoking). Ugh. To that end, I can't say I blame Heather for bailing at the gate.

Edited September 18, 2016 by Drogo
Removed aftershow spoilers.

[Jack Sampson]

2 hours ago, StayingAfterSunday said:

About Heather:  Heather didn't sign up for the show because she wanted to be married to just anyone. She took a risk, hoping that "someone" turned out to be Prince Charming.

Then she signed up for the wrong show.  The whole idea is to take what you're given and work it out based on the reasoning (for what it's worth) of the experts.  The show is definitely not to find Prince Charming.  Prince Charming is a fantasy for little girls, not women serious about making a marriage work.

[Snarklepuss]

5 hours ago, Jack Sampson said:

Then she signed up for the wrong show.  The whole idea is to take what you're given and work it out based on the reasoning (for what it's worth) of the experts.  The show is definitely not to find Prince Charming.  Prince Charming is a fantasy for little girls, not women serious about making a marriage work.

Even after 36 years, Mr. Snarkle is still my handsome prince on some level and I don't live in a fantasy world about him, no way.  And I actually never was even looking for that in a guy.  But it's what's kept my flame alive for him for all that time.  I've found that relationships exist on many levels in our minds.  There's nothing wrong with it as I think romance always has a little fantasy element to it.  I don't really see Heather as romantic enough to exist on that level, though.  I'm not even sure she has any kind of "charming prince" fantasies for a guy to fulfill.  I feel like she has had bad experiences and it has turned her off to romance.  She didn't need yet another guy to add to that pile.  She actually needed someone who could make her feel romance again.  I am sure that if Derek had not turned Heather off so badly he would have become her handsome prince on some level, but she could not get over it so it never happened.  I'd like to know what woman would look at the Derek we saw and see romance.  I certainly don't!

Besides, try telling that to Lilly - I'm sure she fantasizes on some level that Tom is her handsome prince.  Nobody would get down on her for it because she was lucky enough to be matched with someone who gave her that element of romance.

[Evil Queen]

18 hours ago, StayingAfterSunday said:

Nick is strange. And as others have said, he hasn't been honest. Not with the experts, not with Sonia and, maybe, not even with himself.  I think he may want to be something he's not.  Maybe, as the result of being socially shy (as per his mother and himself), his interactions with the opposite sex have been few. It could be that he has romanticized women - idealized them, in a sense - to a point where a real-live woman leaves him numb.  Oddly enough, Nick gave a different impression, at least very early on, during the wedding; as Sonia started down the aisle, he said, "I'll take that," which struck me as the more genteel way of saying, "I'd do her."  Maybe my mind is in the gutter, but that's how it interpreted Nick's words. 

About Heather:  Heather didn't sign up for the show because she wanted to be married to just anyone. She took a risk, hoping that "someone" turned out to be Prince Charming. It wasn't. She gambled and lost. As for why Derek didn't fit her idea of the ideal man, there are too many reasons to list. I think she was turned off the moment he opened his mouth.   For what it's worth, I cannot stand hearing Derek talk.  Despite his articulate and organized way of speaking, it always sounds as though he is reading from a prepared speech. That, and the nasal quality of his voice (probably from all that smoking). Ugh. To that end, I can't say I blame Heather for bailing at the gate.

I remember Nick saying that too and thought it was odd but then figured maybe he was trying to just look a certain way to his buddies. Yet here we are and he can't stand her he is saying and never was attracted to her and so on. Which I have never once thought he was into her at all. He just didn't seem it from the get go. Every single time he has said she is awesome it felt fake. 

Agree, I couldn't have listened to Derek open his mouth up and speak at all. All it did was sound whiny and it got worse when he got angry over the stupidest things. No thanks.  

10 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

Even after 36 years, Mr. Snarkle is still my handsome prince on some level and I don't live in a fantasy world about him, no way.  And I actually never was even looking for that in a guy.  But it's what's kept my flame alive for him for all that time.  I've found that relationships exist on many levels in our minds.  There's nothing wrong with it as I think romance always has a little fantasy element to it.  I don't really see Heather as romantic enough to exist on that level, though.  I'm not even sure she has any kind of "charming prince" fantasies for a guy to fulfill.  I feel like she has had bad experiences and it has turned her off to romance.  She didn't need yet another guy to add to that pile.  She actually needed someone who could make her feel romance again.  I am sure that if Derek had not turned Heather off so badly he would have become her handsome prince on some level, but she could not get over it so it never happened.  I'd like to know what woman would look at the Derek we saw and see romance.  I certainly don't!

Besides, try telling that to Lilly - I'm sure she fantasizes on some level that Tom is her handsome prince.  Nobody would get down on her for it because she was lucky enough to be matched with someone who gave her that element of romance.

Agree, to me Prince Charming doesn't have to equal some made up perfect guy. Prince Charming can take on many meanings. I don't think either that Heather is thinking that way as well. We have all had bad relationships that show us at some point what we do not want in a spouse/relationship. I think she has had her share and knows what she does not want and probably saw signs in him that are toxic for a relationship. Heck I saw ones in him from the bits we saw. Which no way would I want to be stuck with a guy like him. 

I will say that while I haven't been married as long as you (we are on 15 1/2 yrs) we have been through many ups and downs. He, to me, is my Imperfect Prince Charming. He is who I know I can count on if I need him and he knows he can count on me when he needs me. But in the end I do not know a single woman that was looking for a fantasy prince to ride in on the white horse and sweep her off her feet. Most of us women in the world do know reality from fantasy. Yet a little romance in a relationship doesn't ever hurt. Which IMO is different from the whole prince charming fantasy. 

[nlkm9]

53 minutes ago, Evil Queen said:

I

Agree, I couldn't have listened to Derek open his mouth up and speak at all. All it did was sound whiny and it got worse when he got angry over the stupidest things. No thanks.  

what really struck me was you would think in the beginning of a relationship, esp one that is on national tv, that you would be on your VERY BEST behavior--nope we had the smoking incident (and its pot, nothing will convince me otherwise) (Heather even said we "just met and this what you want to show me",) he stopped but was super crabby and confrontational and this is all in the first week!!! I thought he was very confrontational, whiny and explosive--although if you look at twitter there are tons of women who would love to marry him...I think hell be fine. But Im not a heather fan, but I think it was such negative issues from day one that she just couldnt go through with it. that kind of behavior from the start..nope. I think she got a raw deal and is being painted as another Ashley :::shudder:::

 

[Booboomonkey]

On September 17, 2016 at 7:31 PM, Happyfatchick said:

Nick???

Lol!! No im not Nick, i just think hes being unfairly ganged up on for not wanting to bang someone he's not attracted to. 

[kira28]

Nick is an ass.  I liked him at first and am now very disappointed.  He's a pouser.  Whether he bats for the other team I don't know.. But he could have taken the high road and just said their lifestyles are not compatible.  Hell he could have been polite and rode out the six weeks on friendly terms and then blamed it on the dogs that Sonia is so nervous around.  For someone with pets, not meshing with a non pet lover is easily an acceptable deal breaker.  But to be so nasty and uneccesarily cruel to Sonia who appears to be very sweet and nice and accommodating just shows what a vile pos nick is.  Heather is being raked over the coals and accused of giving up too soon because she didn't want to be married to a druggie who acts like a petulant teenager but nick is allowed to diss Sonia on national TV with his petulant I don't like her just because he claims he doesn't find her attractive.  So not finding someone instantly attractive is OK but major personality flaws and red flags mean you should work thru it and stay married? Lol.  I guess Heather should just have told pastor Cal that Derrick was ugly and she didn't like him.  Forget the pot smoking.  I tthink all of these guys they recruit and very immature and not even ready to date someone seriously much less get married

[Gem 10]

On September 17, 2016 at 1:30 PM, jamblastx said:

I couldn't agree more.  I, like Jack Sampson, do not find Sonia physically attractive at all however I can see why other men might.  That said, personality and attitude can also overcome someone who is 'not my type' and in that case, Sonia's lack of confidence and communication skills would put me off even more so.  But hey, to each his own.

My ex-wife was not my traditional physical type either but I loved her personality and attitude so much so that when we together as a couple I truly thought she was the most beautiful and sexiest woman on the planet.  After we split, it took me close to a year, but that fuzzy covered lens was wiped clean and I don't even remotely see her that way.

Also to echo Snarklepuss' post, Charlize Theron is technically a beautiful woman and on paper should be right in my wheelhouse when it comes to 'types' but she does nothing for me.  I will add as a disclaimer, that if Ms. Theron is somehow reading this and is somehow even mildly interested in me, yes I would give it try....you're welcome Charlize :) 

O.k. ... Then, just curious ... Who would you say is attractive to you?   Someone that we all know.   And, IMO, on the wedding day,  I thought Sonia was a "knockout" with the makeup, hair, dress, etc..  But then after that, she looked "plain" and her personality slightly annoying.  I still believe in attraction at first sight.  I've dated guys that had "everything a girl could want" and tried to care for them, but I just couldn't connect no matter what.   But, the minute I laid eyes on my husband for the first time .. BAM !  Thunderbolts !   And we're still married after many, many years.

[Evil Queen]

16 hours ago, nlkm9 said:

17 hours ago, Evil Queen said:

I

what really struck me was you would think in the beginning of a relationship, esp one that is on national tv, that you would be on your VERY BEST behavior--nope we had the smoking incident (and its pot, nothing will convince me otherwise) (Heather even said we "just met and this what you want to show me",) he stopped but was super crabby and confrontational and this is all in the first week!!! I thought he was very confrontational, whiny and explosive--although if you look at twitter there are tons of women who would love to marry him...I think hell be fine. But Im not a heather fan, but I think it was such negative issues from day one that she just couldnt go through with it. that kind of behavior from the start..nope. I think she got a raw deal and is being painted as another Ashley :::shudder:::

 

Exactly and more so because you are on tv. So why do something like that? I guess he may not care that its known he is a pot smoker because that was a risk being on tv in that manner and that his job is probably more along the lines of phone answering/sales that isn't to picky maybe. LOL Yet why do that in front of your new wife you may want to get to know and move further with in the relationship? If he couldn't live without it during this show there is a major issue with that guy. It looked as if he only stopped for a short time too. I wouldn't be surprised if the 2nd they had the fight over the surf instructor bs that he ran off to get high. All those that are gaga over him bought into the editing done on the show and the "Heather is so cold" crap. I can imagine if they were in that spot and dealt with what she did they would be singing a different tune. As you said she got a raw deal in it and have never felt she was Ashley like unlike some. If anyone is Ashley like is Nick. 

14 hours ago, Booboomonkey said:

Lol!! No im not Nick, i just think hes being unfairly ganged up on for not wanting to bang someone he's not attracted to. 

The reason he is getting so much flack isn't because he isn't "banging" her and not attracted. Its his behavior. How he is handling things and having tantrums. IMO it was obvious from the get go he wasn't into her. His little comments he tosses out that have nothing to do with what is talked about in the moment ("I don't love you" or the 5/30 days bs). He just spouts out crap that didn't need to be at all and I am not even sure why he does it. If its his way of trying to say I don't like you it was pathetic and shows how he lacks any maturity to be in any kind of relationship (man or woman or both). He should have sat down with her and had a real conversation on the issue. While I think Sonia was getting that he wasn't into her she wanted him to just admit it. Yet instead he makes it so she isn't sure and the "experts" thing there is something because he lies about how he feels. He says the marriage is an 8 but Sonia is more realistic on it with her 5 and I think she was being kind in that even. Then he says he is attracted to her left and right and how she is attractive. Says he wants to take the relationship to the next step but never does a thing. So instead of lying like he has been, he should have been upfront and honest in a tasteful manner. Instead we get him drunk (yet again) and yelling about it all. He is just cold and mean. 

[HZAnita]

15 hours ago, Booboomonkey said:

Lol!! No im not Nick, i just think hes being unfairly ganged up on for not wanting to bang someone he's not attracted to. 

That's not why he's feeling the heat.  He's feeling the heat because he's a liar.  He flat-out lied to the producers and the audience about how he felt about Sonia.  If he'd been honest with the audience at the beginning (e.g., "She's not my type, but I'm just going to see how this develops." or "She's different than someone I would have picked myself."), there may have been some, "Who does this guy think he is?" or "He's no prize!" stuff, but there wouldn't have been near the level of backlash.  I mean, I was a big fan of Sonia and Nick.  It's completely weird and irrational, but I kind of feel betrayed!***

***I swear I'm not psycho.  At least I don't think I am....lol

[Jellybeans]

1 hour ago, HZAnita said:

That's not why he's feeling the heat.  He's feeling the heat because he's a liar.  He flat-out lied to the producers and the audience about how he felt about Sonia.  If he'd been honest with the audience at the beginning (e.g., "She's not my type, but I'm just going to see how this develops." or "She's different than someone I would have picked myself."), there may have been some, "Who does this guy think he is?" or "He's no prize!" stuff, but there wouldn't have been near the level of backlash.  I mean, I was a big fan of Sonia and Nick.  It's completely weird and irrational, but I kind of feel betrayed!***

***I swear I'm not psycho.  At least I don't think I am....lol

But we haven't seen the episode only the preview, right?

[HZAnita]

5 minutes ago, Jellybeans said:

But we haven't seen the episode only the preview, right?

Yep.  And I will be incredibly happy if I have to eat my words! :)

[jamblastx]

14 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

O.k. ... Then, just curious ... Who would you say is attractive to you?   Someone that we all know.   And, IMO, on the wedding day,  I thought Sonia was a "knockout" with the makeup, hair, dress, etc..  But then after that, she looked "plain" and her personality slightly annoying.  I still believe in attraction at first sight.  I've dated guys that had "everything a girl could want" and tried to care for them, but I just couldn't connect no matter what.   But, the minute I laid eyes on my husband for the first time .. BAM !  Thunderbolts !   And we're still married after many, many years.

First of all if I remember correctly, all of the women on all of the seasons looked fantastic on their wedding days and so did the men for that matter.  However wedding dresses/perfect makeup and tuxes/perfect grooming is not the everyday occurrence.  I believe that everyone has their 'go to' physical types and that may be fine for initial attraction, but after that personality takes over for potential long term attraction and in a perfect world, there is a balance for the two.

Enough disclaimer and since you asked, my ideal physical type of famous women are not necessarily all the same.  But off the top of my head it would be Pamela Anderson, Malin Akerman and Natascha McElhone.  Have I dated women that were outside this box?  Absolutely and in fact Natascha McElhone is on this list because her look reminds me of my ex-wife but she would not be on here prior to me meeting my ex (and I like you, had thunderbolts after our first date...and while we did not have a happily ever after, we did have an almost twenty year run).  And conversely, after my divorce I dated someone who was a very close to looking like Pamela Anderson and she was a complete and total nightmare.

While not being my physical type, to me Sonia was done in by her super meek and as you said, slightly annoying personality. 

[film noire]

17 hours ago, kira28 said:

Nick is an ass.  I liked him at first and am now very disappointed.  He's a pouser.  Whether he bats for the other team I don't know.. But he could have taken the high road and just said their lifestyles are not compatible.  Hell he could have been polite and rode out the six weeks on friendly terms and then blamed it on the dogs that Sonia is so nervous around.  For someone with pets, not meshing with a non pet lover is easily an acceptable deal breaker.  But to be so nasty and uneccesarily cruel to Sonia who appears to be very sweet and nice and accommodating just shows what a vile pos nick is.  Heather is being raked over the coals and accused of giving up too soon because she didn't want to be married to a druggie who acts like a petulant teenager but nick is allowed to diss Sonia on national TV with his petulant I don't like her just because he claims he doesn't find her attractive.  So not finding someone instantly attractive is OK but major personality flaws and red flags mean you should work thru it and stay married? Lol.  I guess Heather should just have told pastor Cal that Derrick was ugly and she didn't like him.  Forget the pot smoking.  I tthink all of these guys they recruit and very immature and not even ready to date someone seriously much less get married

YES! YES! YES!

Quote

The reason he is getting so much flack isn't because he isn't "banging" her and not attracted. Its his behavior. How he is handling things and having tantrums.

And again: YES YES YES!  Finding someone unattractive isn't the issue -- the issue is using that as an insult to belittle and mock someone. (And I can just imagine what would've happened if Heather had screamed "I'M NOT ATTRACTED TO DEREK! I DON'T LIKE HIM! END OF STORY!" Endless social media chatter about her being ugly, a bitch, how dare she, etc.) 

Edited September 19, 2016 by film noire

[Booboomonkey]

40 minutes ago, film noire said:

YES! YES! YES!

And again: YES YES YES!  Finding someone unattractive isn't the issue -- the issue is using that as an insult to belittle and mock someone. (And I can just imagine what would've happened if Heather had screamed "I'M NOT ATTRACTED TO DEREK! I DON'T LIKE HIM! END OF STORY!" Endless social media chatter about her being ugly, a bitch, how dare she, etc.) 

He isn’t belittling or mocking anyone. The guy is not attracted to his new wife. He is giving the experiment time to see if attraction could possibly grow. During this time he is choosing to NOT sleep with her until he has an attraction (and for that I applaud him, because a real d-bag would just do it cause he can). He is being cordial, nice, trying to make her laugh, respectful with the dog in the crate, he is not disrespecting her or leading her on.  He says to the camera that he thinks shes a pretty girl, I don’t think that is meant to mock her, he probably thinks she is but he doesn’t feel that spark or chemistry just yet. It’s a process. And everyone deals with things differently and in their own pace. But Sonia, the experts, and the producers cannot seem to accept or respect his particular internal process and keep pressing him for answers, so he exploded. I would too, I hate being pressed! Is he a extrovert fun expressive man? NOT AT ALL. But i will take a good person with those qualities versus someone like Derrek who can chat it up and have fun but when things get tough he takes mysoginist low blows. 

[film noire]

5 minutes ago, Booboomonkey said:

But Sonia, the experts, and the producers cannot seem to accept or respect his particular internal process and keep pressing him for answers, so he exploded.

Nick is an adult (at least age wise) and responsible for his behavior. Whatever emotional insecurity drove him to display that ugly hostility is on him, not the producers, experts or Sonia. 

[Gem 10]

5 hours ago, jamblastx said:

First of all if I remember correctly, all of the women on all of the seasons looked fantastic on their wedding days and so did the men for that matter.  However wedding dresses/perfect makeup and tuxes/perfect grooming is not the everyday occurrence.  I believe that everyone has their 'go to' physical types and that may be fine for initial attraction, but after that personality takes over for potential long term attraction and in a perfect world, there is a balance for the two.

Enough disclaimer and since you asked, my ideal physical type of famous women are not necessarily all the same.  But off the top of my head it would be Pamela Anderson, Malin Akerman and Natascha McElhone.  Have I dated women that were outside this box?  Absolutely and in fact Natascha McElhone is on this list because her look reminds me of my ex-wife but she would not be on here prior to me meeting my ex (and I like you, had thunderbolts after our first date...and while we did not have a happily ever after, we did have an almost twenty year run).  And conversely, after my divorce I dated someone who was a very close to looking like Pamela Anderson and she was a complete and total nightmare.

While not being my physical type, to me Sonia was done in by her super meek and as you said, slightly annoying personality. 

[Gem 10]

Nice choice.  I agree with what you say.  Personality does come into play after the first attraction.  That's where it's "a go" or its "a stop".  In Nick and Sonia's situation,  even tho she is a nice person,  it doesn't appear that they would mesh well together.  And, there's nothing wrong with that.  So, as of now, it might be a "stop".  Only they know at this point.   Too bad about your "nightmare".

[ChristmasJones]

This makes me think of an actor I once had a huge crush on (I had only seen him in films). One night I was channel surfing and found he was doing an interview on one of the late night talk shows. OMG. Crush was instantly killed!!! His real-life personality was soooo dull!  I wish I had never seen that interview!!

[Paddywagon]

4 hours ago, film noire said:

Nick is an adult (at least age wise) and responsible for his behavior. Whatever emotional insecurity drove him to display that ugly hostility is on him, not the producers, experts or Sonia. 

I totally agree with this, but I see the point @booboomonkey is making.

Now I'm not thinking too highly of Nick after watching him blow up in the preview, but I did hear the producer mocking him at the end by saying something like, "relationships take work you know".  I'm shocked at Nick's outburst but I also got pissed at the producer for continuing to badger him after he just made a total drunk ass of himself.  Sheesh wtf was that gonna accomplish?  Is Nick gonna suddenly stop his rant and sober up and say, "you're right, let's work on this Sonia."  He already gave them some gold footage so there wasn't any need to continue prodding him.  

Again, I'm not defending Nick in any way, it was just a sickening glimpse into the pressure they put on these people to get reactions out of them.

I'm really surprised they didn't edit that out.

Edited September 20, 2016 by Paddywagon

[CindyK]

19 minutes ago, Paddywagon said:

I totally agree with this, but I see the point @booboomonkey is making.

Now I'm not thinking too highly of Nick after watching him blow up in the preview, but I did hear the producer mocking him at the end by saying something like, "relationships take work you know".  I'm shocked at Nick's outburst but I also got pissed at the producer for continuing to badger him after he just made a total drunk ass of himself.  Sheesh wtf was that gonna accomplish?  Is Nick gonna suddenly stop his rant and sober up and say, "you're right, let's work on this Sonia."  He already gave them some gold footage so there wasn't any need to continue prodding him.  

Again, I'm not defending Nick in any way, it was just a sickening glimpse into the pressure they put on these people to get reactions out of them.

I'm really surprised they didn't edit that out.

I found that disturbing as well. The producers should not be interfering. It's bad enough these know-nothing experts are handing out their crappy advice.

[Gem 10]

1 hour ago, ChristmasJones said:

This makes me think of an actor I once had a huge crush on (I had only seen him in films). One night I was channel surfing and found he was doing an interview on one of the late night talk shows. OMG. Crush was instantly killed!!! His real-life personality was soooo dull!  I wish I had never seen that interview!!

Yes .. In the movies, the actors & actresses are soooo good.  Then they go on a late night t.v. Talk show and act and talk so unbelievably stupid .. You get disappointed.  Some actresses especially, talk so silly and stupid when they don't have a script.

[Evil Queen]

6 hours ago, Booboomonkey said:

He isn’t belittling or mocking anyone. The guy is not attracted to his new wife. He is giving the experiment time to see if attraction could possibly grow. During this time he is choosing to NOT sleep with her until he has an attraction (and for that I applaud him, because a real d-bag would just do it cause he can). He is being cordial, nice, trying to make her laugh, respectful with the dog in the crate, he is not disrespecting her or leading her on.  He says to the camera that he thinks shes a pretty girl, I don’t think that is meant to mock her, he probably thinks she is but he doesn’t feel that spark or chemistry just yet. It’s a process. And everyone deals with things differently and in their own pace. But Sonia, the experts, and the producers cannot seem to accept or respect his particular internal process and keep pressing him for answers, so he exploded. I would too, I hate being pressed! Is he a extrovert fun expressive man? NOT AT ALL. But i will take a good person with those qualities versus someone like Derrek who can chat it up and have fun but when things get tough he takes mysoginist low blows. 

Really? So its ok to tell lie after lie after lie about how he likes her, thinks she is "awesome", is attracted to her and thinks the marriage is an 8? Or that he has let those dogs all over the place...more so after clean sheets were put on the bed that he tossed the dog right on them? That was disrespectful right there. As well as even having the dog in the bedroom where she had asked for them not to be. Then you throw in his comments he has made that were not even what was being discussed.....yeah he is a real winner. If he isn't feeling it at all than he should have been upfront as I have said before. Instead he is acting out like a kid having a tantrum. Sure the producers aren't suppose to get involved but if this was actually filmed after the Heather/Derek divorce decision they probably freaked that it could be another headed that way. Yet they are right too that marriage takes work. Sure I get that certain things are deal breakers and heck they should be (looking at Derek and his "habit"). With this situation instead of lying to Sonia, "experts" and everyone else Nick should have told the truth. If he had done so in a very respectful manner he would be looking like the asshole. Sorry but I was one of those not buying into his bs "I'm an introvert" that he seems to keep repeating over and over again. He is far from it. I have said that from the get go..as well as that he wasn't into Sonia. The tone he would say he liked her, thought she was attractive or awesome was just not saying he did. Instead it was coming off cold and mean I thought. If that "expert" Rachel actually believed there was some flame or fire (whatever she said) between these 2 she needs to get a clue because there never was one. I think many of us could see that. SMH

[Snarklepuss]

As a person who has studied personality theory and takes being an introvert somewhat seriously, I feel that Nick gives introverts a bad name.  Being an introvert is not an excuse for being deliberately uncommunicative, cold and misleading.  Everyone has to extrovert every day of their lives in order to function in the world, and healthy introverts are able to do so when the time calls for it.  Healthy introverts have good communication skills and are able to use them in all situations that call for them even when it involves going outside their comfort zone.  Nick is FOS.  He is using his introversion to explain away his dysfunction.  It's like when people profile disturbed school killers and say "He was a loner, and introvert".  That gives introverts a bad name too because that goes way beyond normal introversion to explain, it's antisocial, dysfunctional behavior.

[gonecrackers]

9 hours ago, Evil Queen said:

If that "expert" Rachel actually believed there was some flame or fire (whatever she said) between these 2 she needs to get a clue because there never was one. I think many of us could see that. SMH

Rachel was either pushing something because she was told to, or, incredibly bad at reading people. Or both. Either way not a great advertisement for a 'life coach' & relationship 'expert' ?

[gonecrackers]

59 minutes ago, Snarklepuss said:

As a person who has studied personality theory and takes being an introvert somewhat seriously, I feel that Nick gives introverts a bad name.  Being an introvert is not an excuse for being deliberately uncommunicative, cold and misleading.  Everyone has to extrovert every day of their lives in order to function in the world, and healthy introverts are able to do so when the time calls for it.  Healthy introverts have good communication skills and are able to use them in all situations that call for them even when it involves going outside their comfort zone.  Nick is FOS.  He is using his introversion to explain away his dysfunction.  It's like when people profile disturbed school killers and say "He was a loner, and introvert".  That gives introverts a bad name too because that goes way beyond normal introversion to explain, it's antisocial, dysfunctional behavior.

As an introvert to the highest degree I can't agree more. There are other ways of communicating, such as in writing. Weren't they journaling or something? He could have even shared some of the more difficult feelings in writing.

Regardless, though, a show like this could be a nightmare for an introvert. We need time alone to re-charge. If I was in that kind of stressful situation for very long hours, needing to communicate difficult feelings with a stranger, with a camera crew in my face, a pushy production person nagging at me (I think they do a lot of that), & presumably needing to keep up with work as well, I would probably have a meltdown as well - but I don't know that I would hurt someone - I might just sit there & cry LOL.

However, key point - I would never do a show like this, for so many reasons, but I'm self aware enough to realize I couldn't handle it. He didn't know that for whatever reason, or he's not a 'shy' (I don't think so) introvert, he's just got issues. Or, he's a total fake, in which case it's all coming back to bite him, & he'll just have to deal with it.

Edited September 20, 2016 by gonecrackers