S04.E08: To Have and To Hold

[Gem 10]

8 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

Actually I feel for her.  She admitted to being under a lot of stress right then.  I think being on the show, marrying someone like that and so much happening so soon creates stress.  Even good stress is still stress and it can make dealing with other stressful things that much more difficult.  Plus she's feeling particularly vulnerable and hoping Tom is true to his word about caring about her that much right away.  It is a lot to hope of someone after only a couple of weeks.  I think her insecurities are unfounded with him.  As douchey as he seems I think his heart's in the right place with her.  But I can see from her POV it being a lot to process in a short amount of time and her feeling a bit insecure.

Plus, as I can attest from my own life, the prospect of surgery affects people differently.  For some people it's easy, for others (like me) it's practically a phobia.

 We will see Toms colors when he puts the Nurse's cap on.

[Primetimer]

And more not-quite-burning questions sparked by 'To Have And To Hold'!

View the full article

[Vinyasa]

Why on earth was Derek still wearing the wedding ring after they called it quits?  He had it on when we was going to work the next day and when he went to his friend's condo.

Why do I think we are going to see Heather and Derek to end of this show? I don't need to see them telling everyone the "marriage of two weeks" is over.

[Neurochick]

11 hours ago, Straycat80 said:

 

Not surprise Heather did not want to stay married. It was pointless to keep showing Derek and Heather after they decided to get divorced. And I don't know why they acted so heartbroken, they were only together for two whole weeks and on a reality show to boot! I also don't like how it was edited to make it look like it was Heathers fault that the marriage didn't work out. 

 

 

9 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I think the show wants to 'punish' Heather because she refused to continue on with the sham marriage. They were showing Derek in a much more favorable light. I wish we knew what went on there but we probably never will.

I agree with both of these comments.  I watched Derek and Heather after they decided to get divorced and it hit me, right there.  Heather seems older, more mature, more adult than Derek.  I think she wanted a more mature, sophisticated man; not a man who seems to want to hold onto his youth.  I'm not saying Derek is bad, but he just wasn't the man for Heather.

I am tired of all this, "Nick is gay" nonsense.  That sounds like shit guys heap on women if they're not interested, "you must be a lesbian if you don't want me."  No asshole, I'm just not into YOU.  Nick isn't into Sonia and I get why; there doesn't seem to be anything that would bind them together.  Here in NYC, people meet each other walking their dogs, at the dog park, etc, it's like you start off having something in common, love of dogs, love of animals; the point it, you start with something.  I keep sensing that Nick and Sonia have NOTHING in common, except being on this show.

[Gem 10]

Regarding Nick, before I was married, I was dating a good looking guy for about 3 months.  He took me to meet his family .. His friends .. I went to weddings with him, etc..  All this while, it was a peck on the cheek.  He never wanted to "make out".   One night while "parking & sparking" in a park, it was a few kisses, and then he said he had to go to the bathroom and wanted to go home.  BINGO !   Then I got it.  He was gay and probably trying to find himself.  How stupid was I ?  Nick reminds me of that.

[ShaNaeNae]

10 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I thought Lilly was acting like she found out she had cancer or something. I've had two shoulder surgeries and of course no one wants to have a surgery at all but it's not a major surgery. I would consider major surgery to be on an organ. And she appears to be able to lift her arms so I'm thinking maybe it will be arthroscopic surgery. I can see why she wouldn't want to be a burden, but you are usually home the same day and just have to do therapy. Just seemed way too dramatic.

 

 

I'm glad someone else thought so.  When she was at the doctor for an "all clear", my mind went to cancer.  Especially with all the tears and "I need yous".  When she said "surgery on my shoulder" I was thinking, "that's it?"  Now in my mind I'm going to see Lily as Miss Dramatica. 

[humbleopinion]

Tom..."Lily, body painting time!"

Lily..."Awww, you started without me. You've already painted your feet."

Tom..."No, must be something I stepped on a few days ago."

Ewww

Edited September 14, 2016 by humbleopinion
nitpicking my own grammar

[BunnySlippers]

9 hours ago, CindyK said:

Based on this week's revelations, Nick's comment (last week) that the marriage was at an 8-9 seems pretty phony.

Great point, I forgot about that. Yes, indeed, that shows that he's been lying all this time. Or maybe what he meant by saying that was that for him, things were going great: he could have a free vacation and free marketing with this show, and by pretending that he was shy, he could avoid having sex with this "stranger" without coming off as the bad guy. Then, when the six weeks are up, he could just say it's not working out and he wants a divorce. Well, apparently when Sonia tried to get him to open up he lost it and he ruined his little game.

8 hours ago, ChristmasJones said:

Its like they are saying its the woman's responsibility to make it work. Its the woman's responsibility to just take the shit dished out at her and live with it.  That is just completely sexist bullcrap. And its completely transparent in this situation.  Why not ask Derek how he could have acted differently?  Ask him if he can think of anything he did or said that contributed to this problem. From the stuff we saw on camera, I can see why she didn't want to stay with him. He seemed extremely immature when dealing with his feelings.

I agree. They never asked Derek what he could have done; they put it all on Heather.

2 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

Tom..."Lily, body painting time!"

Lily..."Awww, you started without me. You've already painted your feet."

Tom..."No, must be something I stepped on a few days ago."

Ewww

LOL!

[potatochips]

I hope this is the last season for this show. Studies show that arranged marriages can actually work well but the marriages on this show  are contrived. In cultures where marriage is arranged, the bride and groom come to the marriage with many common values and relationships. Marriage is viewed more as a family commitment. Love often grows out of the effort the couple make to honor that commitment and their families.

These couples may have answered questions on a survey that showed common interests and values but ultimately, each  person is mostly interested in his/her own happiness. They have agreed to this because they hope that they will find someone who will make them happy not because they want to work hard at nurturing someone else. Their TH's are always centered on how the spouse is missing the mark in making them happy. Add to that the pressure of having your intimate moments filmed, it's a miracle if any of these relationships last. 

[Vinyasa]

Quote

I thought Lilly was acting like she found out she had cancer or something. I've had two shoulder surgeries and of course no one wants to have a surgery at all but it's not a major surgery. I would consider major surgery to be on an organ. And she appears to be able to lift her arms so I'm thinking maybe it will be arthroscopic surgery. I can see why she wouldn't want to be a burden, but you are usually home the same day and just have  to do therapy. Just seemed way too dramatic.

Oh exactly.

And why was it all "behind close doors" with sub titles?

[bichonblitz]

47 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

I am tired of all this, "Nick is gay" nonsense.

Well, until last night I wasn't sure. Now I'm in the "he's gay" camp.  What woman is going to have sex in a public pool bathroom? As shy as Nick is supposedly, does anybody really see him as a willing participant in having quickie sex with any female in a pool bathroom? If he's not willing to do it with Sonia (anywhere), who is pretty and nice, why in hell would he do it with some skank like that? Nope, that was some random man sex right there.  That wasn't the only red flag, though.  When the therapist asked what has attracted him in the past to women, he kept referring to a women as "them", not she or her, or girl or woman.  He was totally non specific with gender which was glaringly obvious. 

Lillian is so damn dramatic. As a few pointed out up thread, she's not having a cancerous tumor or an organ removed, it's shoulder surgery, for chrissakes! It's not gonna be fun but it's nothing to cry about. Tom is really trying to be supportive on camera, he is well aware of how he could come off as cold and self centered so he's making extra effort to go along with the poor Lillian routine. I guarantee he is going to grow tired of her shit eventually. 

I was feeling sorry for Derek. Not because Heather ditched him, but because he is 35 years old and living in that dump! EW. And Miss fancy pants was right, he IS a slob. I bet if he was the one living in that nice, upscale Miami highrise condo instead of his friend, Heather would be sticking around. That's the kind of guy she's looking for, not a 35 yr. old manchild. 

Edited September 14, 2016 by bichonblitz

[Vinyasa]

I am a bit surprised the producers didn't make Heather continue with the marriage.

Maybe they just let it end early because she would likely be an "Ashley"  just show up for filming and not speak to the guy. We already know the end to that movie.

Not worth their effort to film that!

[Empress1]

8 minutes ago, Vinyasa said:

I am a bit surprised the producers didn't make Heather continue with the marriage.

Maybe they just let it end early because she would likely be an "Ashley"  just show up for filming and not speak to the guy. We already know the end to that movie.

Not worth their effort to film that!

I really don't think making someone stay married is enforceable, if this is indeed a legal marriage as they keep harping on. I don't even think they can enforce them staying in the same home. Enforce it how? Again, what if there's abuse? You can give leaving consequences, maybe. The question of how much compensation there is has been done to death, but if there IS compensation, maybe you can say they don't get paid if they don't stay married the six weeks, but if whatever the compensation is isn't worth it to them, it's not. I'd guess they sign contracts before going on the show but if there's no clause that requires you to stay married, there's nothing they can do. (I know the Real World contracts now stipulate that you have to go on reunion shows for five years after your season airs, because there have been a bunch of people from the very early seasons that did the show and were never seen again.) And even if there is a clause, people could still decide to break the contract and take the chance that they'd be sued. There may be a clause that says you have to film a certain number of days, hence the totally unnecessary scenes of Heather and Derek's post-divorce life, which I'm sure Heather is annoyed about - I think she hated the entire experience, including being on TV.

[humbleopinion]

When Nick and Sonia were playing the Mr. and Mrs. Game, really could have used some subtitles to decipher what the hell Sonia was saying after Nick gave his answers.

Her quivering, lingering and drawing out certain syllables, just made it impossible for me to understand her response after Nick said "Butts and boobs."

Perhaps she is speaking on a tonal level only heard by dogs... ironic.

[okerry]

From the article, quoting Nick when he was asked what he found attractive in his previous partners:

"In the past, it's been-- I don't want to say superficial, but it's been someone that I chose upfront, and it, you know, so it was just, it was easier for me to be affectionate to them because I chose them upfront and I had a, you know, I obviously had an attraction to them right away, and we're here, like I'm trying-- I have an attraction, but it's-- It's not quite as strong as, like, if I were to pick them upfront myself, but I'm still trying to give it a chance to develop."

Translation: I know a hot guy in a public swimming pool's restroom when I see one.

[WichitaStateShock]

Okay, I admit I was wrong about Nick. Dang, I wanted them to work. That tantric thing was so awkward. 

[henrysmom]

Some random thoughts.  

That rental of Lily and Tom's is kind of nasty.

I don't think Lily was overreacting about having surgery.  Surgery is scary.  I was her age when I had my first surgery and the only reason I didn't react as she did is because it was an emergency situation coming off several days of intense pain, and I was so out of it on pain meds when the surgeon told me what was going on that I had no clue what he was talking about.  If I'd been facing surgery in a healthy state without the happy meds I would have been a quivering ball of tears too.

Roxana is still not accepting of the Lily/Tom thing.  

Thank you show for letting Heather bail.  I couldn't take another season of the wife pretending to try when she had already clearly checked out.  No more Ashleys, please.

Nick....oh Nick.  When he had the dog crate <right> next to the bed (or was it actually on the bed?), and he kept checking on the dog, and putting his fingers into the crate so the dog would be comforted...Nick, they let Heather bail.  Maybe in a couple of weeks they'll let you bail too and you can have your beloved dogs roaming free with their daddy again.  

[Empress1]

4 minutes ago, henrysmom said:

Nick....oh Nick.  When he had the dog crate <right> next to the bed (or was it actually on the bed?), and he kept checking on the dog, and putting his fingers into the crate so the dog would be comforted...Nick, they let Heather bail.  Maybe in a couple of weeks they'll let you bail too and you can have your beloved dogs roaming free with their daddy again.  

Ooh, I forgot to mention that because it stuck out to me when I watched. I was like, "OK, good sign that the dog isn't in bed with them. ... Wait, is that cage IN the bed? Oh dear." If it wasn't on the bed, it was right next to it (although the other dog appeared to be outside the room, so that's kind of a good sign? Kind of?). I felt so bad for Sonia when she was saying she wished Nick was as attentive to her as he is to his dogs. What an awful feeling it must be to feel unsafe (IMO if she says she's afraid of dogs, she's afraid of dogs) and undesired in your own home.

[Liberty]

47 minutes ago, Vinyasa said:

I am a bit surprised the producers didn't make Heather continue with the marriage.

Maybe they just let it end early because she would likely be an "Ashley"  just show up for filming and not speak to the guy. We already know the end to that movie.

Not worth their effort to film that!

In season 2, didn't Basement Ryan and Jaclyn have a "married life" apartment in Queens, but did not cohabitate?  Thinking they showed up for filming, but otherwise the apartment was vacant.  Sean & Davina's marriage had arrived at divorce long before filming stopped, quite similar to S3 David & Stashley.  Although Sam R. acted as if surprised, her marriage to Neil was ended before the week 6 announcement.  Think about Ryan Rage & Jessica and Monet & Vaughn, 

The producers are learning from their previous failures to let Heather out early.  The producers also play with the timelines in each marriage, so just because Tom & Lily were on day X, does not mean any of the other couples were on the same day.  It is entirely possible that Heather divorce declaration was filmed a day or two after returning from Puerto Rico, even though the episode showed the other couples a different number of days after their weddings.

[ZaldamoWilder]

7 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I agree with all of this. I have a progressive, and ultimately terminal, medical condition that has necessitated dozens of surgeries. They never get easier. In fact, I've had brain surgery and 3 organs rupture and have to be removed (gallbladder, appendix, & uterus) and yet one of the most difficult surgeries I've had is one I actually had last week-on a TOOTH. That surgery has given me a deep bone infection, dry socket, and a host of other problems. Most of the past 10 days has been filled with hospital visits and strong pain medication. And again, it was a TOOTH. :-)

I don't swing that way but, hell, I think Sonia's hot. I wouldn't have a problem getting to know that. You know, if I liked the ladies. (But who knows, that might just be the narcotics talking.)

I was laughing at the way they were talking about the "divorce" being such a big deal. I mean, it's more a pain in the ass than anything. They were only together for two weeks. I am sure the embarrassment and inconvenience was worse than any heartbreak they felt. I used to be a travel writer. I once took a secretary with me on a 2-week assignment. We totally bonded but, at the end of the trip, we were fine to go our separate ways. I looked at this as just being one long vacation for them. Still, I figured she'd hang in there. I thought there might be a payment contingency that would keep them together. At the same time, I am not sure they need a divorce. They might qualify for an annulment. I don't think they had sex (unless I missed something). And Heather might be able to claim "fraud" or whatever you can claim for an annulment, if Derek really WAS smoking pot. 

Wishing you well mamadrama, thank you for sharing that.

1 hour ago, Vinyasa said:

Why on earth was Derek still wearing the wedding ring after they called it quits?  He had it on when we was going to work the next day and when he went to his friend's condo.

Why do I think we are going to see Heather and Derek to end of this show? I don't need to see them telling everyone the "marriage of two weeks" is over.

This.  It made me wonder if he just liked whatever he thought other people thought of him having a wife.  I mean he actually seems more busted up at the idea of having to tell everybody they broke up than breaking up.    That apartment.  I'm glad smellivision isn't a thing.

1 hour ago, ShaNaeNae said:

I'm glad someone else thought so.  When she was at the doctor for an "all clear", my mind went to cancer.  Especially with all the tears and "I need yous".  When she said "surgery on my shoulder" I was thinking, "that's it?"  Now in my mind I'm going to see Lily as Miss Dramatica. 

Even with a built in she's-never-had-surgery-before allowance I was like girl unless they're amputating something, you are doing. too. much.  right now.   Yeah surgery's scary but when she came back in the house, the way she was carrying on, I thought she was going to announce something life changing.    I had to fight to remember she's only 24 and has a legitimate history with feelings of abandonment. 

1 hour ago, humbleopinion said:

Tom..."Lily, body painting time!"

Lily..."Awww, you started without me. You've already painted your feet."

Tom..."No, must be something I stepped on a few days ago."

Ewww

Damn you.  It's too soon for me to laugh at this.    Why did I think of ya'll when he got on the bed and I looked as closely as I could at his feet?   They were clean though.  Lol.

12 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Do you think Nick had a slip of the tongue(pun intended) when he revealed the strangest place he had sex?

The strangest place for Nick to have sex...a vagina.

 

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I am tired of all this, "Nick is gay" nonsense.  That sounds like shit guys heap on women if they're not interested, "you must be a lesbian if you don't want me."  No asshole, I'm just not into YOU.  Nick isn't into Sonia and I get why; there doesn't seem to be anything that would bind them together.  Here in NYC, people meet each other walking their dogs, at the dog park, etc, it's like you start off having something in common, love of dogs, love of animals; the point it, you start with something.  I keep sensing that Nick and Sonia have NOTHING in common, except being on this show.

I think the difference is they mean it as an insult because, well, what's not to like about a guy who would say that.    The opinion that Nick is gay isn't to disparage him or create an alternative which excludes the possibility that he just doesn't like his wife.   In THs he said he found her very attractive but each of his verbal and physical cues since have been to distance himself from her.   He has slept in the same bed with this woman for 22 days but he's gotta do shots of Jack and take sex classes to put his hand on her clavicle and talk about her boobs and booty.   We've watched two scenes where she has straddled him.......on a bed.....and crickets.    It's not specific to her, he's "attracted" to her, remember?  She doesn't have a penis. 

[BunnySlippers]

11 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

Ooh, I forgot to mention that because it stuck out to me when I watched. I was like, "OK, good sign that the dog isn't in bed with them. ... Wait, is that cage IN the bed? Oh dear." If it wasn't on the bed, it was right next to it (although the other dog appeared to be outside the room, so that's kind of a good sign? Kind of?). I felt so bad for Sonia when she was saying she wished Nick was as attentive to her as he is to his dogs. What an awful feeling it must be to feel unsafe (IMO if she says she's afraid of dogs, she's afraid of dogs) and undesired in your own home.

Not only that, but it also bugged me when, after Sonia had told him how nice it was to have clean sheets, he picked up his dog and threw him on the bed (on her side). Yes, he took the dog off after that, but still; when you don't want animals on your bed, one reason is that you don't want their feet, which had been walking over all kinds of stuff, on your bedding.

I don't know if he did that on purpose to spite her or not, but either way, it was pretty thoughtless. And yes, then he kept paying attention to the dog while ignoring his wife. He just doesn't care about her at all.

[Soup333]

Tom gives me the WORST vibes. 

Nick was checking out that mustache dude. I wasn't decided on Nick being gay before this ep (mostly because I half-ass watch this train wreck) but I kinda think he is at this point.  So why is he here? Why did he do this? Poor Sonia.

Smart move, Heather. Good for Derek too. They were a mismatch. 

[Vinyasa]

Quote

Roxana is still not accepting of the Lily/Tom thing.  

Lily didn't seem all that excited either, except for their sex life.  Almost like she had to convince herself she is happy.

[cakes1975]

     1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

I am tired of all this, "Nick is gay" nonsense.

38 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

Well, until last night I wasn't sure. Now I'm in the "he's gay" camp.  What woman is going to have sex in a public pool bathroom? As shy as Nick is supposedly, does anybody really see him as a willing participant in having quickie sex with any female in a pool bathroom? If he's not willing to do it with Sonia (anywhere), who is pretty and nice, why in hell would he do it with some skank like that? Nope, that was some random man sex right there.  That wasn't the only red flag, though.  When the therapist asked what has attracted him in the past to women, he kept referring to a women as "them", not she or her, or girl or woman.  He was totally non specific with gender which was glaringly obvious. 

Lillian is so damn dramatic. As a few pointed out up thread, she's not having a cancerous tumor or an organ removed, it's shoulder surgery, for chrissakes! It's not gonna be fun but it's nothing to cry about. Tom is really trying to be supportive on camera, he is well aware of how he could come off as cold and self centered so he's making extra effort to go along with the poor Lillian routine. I guarantee he is going to grow tired of her shit eventually. 

I was feeling sorry for Derek. Not because Heather ditched him, but because he is 35 years old and living in that dump! EW. And Miss fancy pants was right, he IS a slob. I bet if he was the one living in that nice, upscale Miami highrise condo instead of his friend, Heather would be sticking around. That's the kind of guy she's looking for, not a 35 yr. old manchild. 

What woman is going to have sex in a public pool bathroom? . . .*raises hand*  and I know that I'm not the only one. Ok, not  a public pool bathroom, but a bathroom in a public place (a few public places). I would not today but back when I was younger? yeah if the time was right and it felt good . . .

Now I think Neurochick has a point with the  Nick is gay reaction, and I will admit it was my immediate thought as well. But then I stepped back and thought about his reply that he is always one to pick who he wants to date. The one he picks based on his attraction could go either way. Most of us want to be the one to choose who we are attracted to, this program skews that premise and I assume that works for all the participants; they aren't doing the picking. Now Nick does strikes me as someone with a more traditional gender identity expression, so I definitely see the Madonna/Whore thing being part of his makeup; and since I have known and know men who fit into this pod, I can see him being this way. Sonia strikes me as someone in need of affirmation on several levels. She was upset after the wedding that he did not immediately tell her that she was beautiful. Most women want to hear this, but they are marrying the person they are in love with, not a stranger, and damn girl, look in the mirror! Most of know when our look is smoking hot, we would like a "hell yeah" but we don't let it sour our mood. I do think the therapists have a point that they are both sucking at the communication game. If Sonia had more self-confidence, she could communicate her wants/needs better; and maybe then Nick would be forced to up his game or back the hell up and get out.

This brings me to Heather and Derek. I thought Heather was wrong for this show from the start. I don't remember her age, but she seemed like a 40ish woman who was secure in her life and career, and was doing this show because her 'picker' was malfunctioning. I get the feeling that she's had several relationships fail and she saw her choice of men as a contributing factor. She decided to widen her field by saying on the application that an 'occasional smoker' could be included in the choices. She got Derek the pothead and immediately changed her mind. Now it could be that she cannot take a chance on testing positive for marijuana due to exposure ( I don't know her airline's policy on drugs), so I think she started rethinking the experiment very early. Derek seems like the guy in Peter Pan mode. He wants something to force him to grow up and thinks marriage will do that. I did not mind the rent-free, crappy looking apartment. hell I wish I had friends that would let me live rent-free in their apartment building. But he is really immature; he saw Heather flirting when she was just being herself. She works in a profession that is designed to put others at ease.  Heather can seem warm and friendly in almost any situation, it's partly her training and personality. I think Heather uses 'flight attendant mode' to navigate new experiences/situations, and Derek throwing jealous hissy fits in Puerto Rico was not what she was expecting from the man she was given after a "thorough review by experts." I think she took the right path by considering then breaking it off. I applaud her decision  and the show's for keeping it in.  I would like to see them both navigate the rest of the six weeks on air because I think that the reason the show only gives divorce as an ending option is to impress upon the participants that marriage should be taken seriously, even when you're doing it for money and television exposure.

[Neurochick]

2 hours ago, potatochips said:

I hope this is the last season for this show. Studies show that arranged marriages can actually work well but the marriages on this show  are contrived. In cultures where marriage is arranged, the bride and groom come to the marriage with many common values and relationships. Marriage is viewed more as a family commitment. Love often grows out of the effort the couple make to honor that commitment and their families.

These couples may have answered questions on a survey that showed common interests and values but ultimately, each  person is mostly interested in his/her own happiness. They have agreed to this because they hope that they will find someone who will make them happy not because they want to work hard at nurturing someone else. Their TH's are always centered on how the spouse is missing the mark in making them happy. Add to that the pressure of having your intimate moments filmed, it's a miracle if any of these relationships last. 

Very true.  Arranged marriages work because of the couples' commitment to their respective communities and families.  These people might be interested in fame, being on TV, selling their brand.  It's too much me, me, me with most of them.

Question, if Nick is gay then why do this show?  Why draw attention to himself? 

As for having sex in a pool bathroom...I'm laughing because I once saw two people (male/female) doing just such a thing, in the bathroom of a health club.  I just said, "oh shit" to them, laughed and went on my way; I mean what can you do?

Edited September 14, 2016 by Neurochick

[henrysmom]

I'm really kind of perplexed at the dislike (if that isn't too harsh a word) of  Lily/Tom.  I've thought they were adorable from the beginning, and I still think so.  Am I the only one?

[Jellybeans]

Sex in a public bathroom does not mean you are gay!  If it does...then my ex and I were gay a long time ago.  I can't imagine engaging in such behavior now but I can imagine younger people doing do. I don't condone...lol.

My captions were messed up due to weather so I have no idea what anyone said.  Only what their body language indicated.  I will hold off on most comments until I watch the rerun Sunday with captions.

Was surprised to see Heather and Derick again after they made their decision.  Booo... I do not want to see them again.

[Neurochick]

1 minute ago, henrysmom said:

I'm really kind of perplexed at the dislike (if that isn't too harsh a word) of  Lily/Tom.  I've thought they were adorable from the beginning, and I still think so.  Am I the only one?

I'm confused too.  I also don't get the Tom=serial killer issue.  Right now, they're the only couple that I think are going to make it.

[holly4755]

Lily and surgery. For the sake of the producers story, it was the surgery alone, apparently they are not covering the disease that makes her lose her hair through her choice or theirs, If it an auto immune disease it could make surgery more dangerous.

But I should talk, I burst into tears when the eye doctor told me I had viral pink eye and that lasts like 2 months -  I was thinking 2 months of boiling sheets and pillow cases on the stove while trying to work as a consultant. The doctor then brought me up short mocking me when he said his liver was failing and he would be dead in less than a year and he was. it is all perspective. 

[Jellybeans]

I like them.  We don't want them fighting!  LOL

[Empress1]

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I am tired of all this, "Nick is gay" nonsense.  That sounds like shit guys heap on women if they're not interested, "you must be a lesbian if you don't want me."  No asshole, I'm just not into YOU.  Nick isn't into Sonia and I get why; there doesn't seem to be anything that would bind them together.  Here in NYC, people meet each other walking their dogs, at the dog park, etc, it's like you start off having something in common, love of dogs, love of animals; the point it, you start with something.  I keep sensing that Nick and Sonia have NOTHING in common, except being on this show.

Me too. He may indeed be a little metro (and is he THAT metro? He wears jeans and button-downs), but a) I thought we had evolved past the idea that a man who puts some care into his appearance is gay; b) he lives in Miami, where image is important. Derek's look is very carefully cultivated too; c) I would much rather have a man who makes some effort on his appearance than one who looks like he just rolled out of bed, or wears gym shorts and a t-shirt on a date (this has happened to me). If I'm putting on makeup and picking out a nice outfit, dudes can put on some cologne, some clothes that fit and look nice, and comb their hair. It shows care. I wear makeup, clothes that fit and flatter me, and work out because I like the way those things make me feel; maybe Nick does too.

Also, the "who but a gay man would have sex in a public bathroom?" thing ... lots of straight couples have done this. I bet there's a straight couple doing it right now. Digital Underground was singing about getting busy in a Burger King bathroom decades ago. TMI, but I once fooled around (not full-on sex, but more than making out) in a bar bathroom, and the dude in question and I are both straight.

1 minute ago, holly4755 said:

Lily and surgery. For the sake of the producers story, it was the surgery alone, apparently they are not covering the disease that makes her lose her hair through her choice or theirs, If it an auto immune disease it could make surgery more dangerous.

Disease? Has it been confirmed anywhere that she has a disease? Lots of women of all ages have thin hair for reasons that have nothing to do with illness. Could be genetic, could be that she's colored or over-styled too much, could be that she wore extensions and/or tight hairstyles and got traction alopecia ... A side part is more flattering on her; the height gives the illusion of thickness. The blonde has GOT to go though. I don't find her attractive, but I think she'd look much better with dark hair.

[Lesia]

ok, so I had the tv on after the show ended.  I went to do laundry, or something.  I came back upstairs, and there's Nick yelling:

"I can't talk about my feelings!  I don't know how to open up! I don't like her!  I'm not attracted to her! OK, there's my feelings!!" then

*MARRIED AT FIRST SIGHT NEXT TUESDAY 8:45"

or something like that.  did anybody else catch that???????

[psychoticstate]

Well, that was no surprise.  However, I did feel sad for Derek.  Heather saying that Derek would have married anyone they set him up with while she wanted the right person pretty much sums up what is wrong with Heather.  This is MAFS, for God's sake.  The whole point of the show/experiment is to marry whoever they choose for you.  IMO this definitely shows that Heather was not invested and did this on a lark or whatever.  Very unfair to Derek or whoever she may have been matched with.  I understand that if there is some major lifestyle conflict (drugs; alcohol; wants children/doesn't want children, etc.) you would know immediately that this person will never work with you.  So if that was the case, they should simply say it.  If not, Heather didn't give things a fair shake.

I may stand alone but I didn't mind the scenes of them afterward.  Their parting was mucho awkward but I think seeing Derek after the fact, still wearing his wedding ring and saying that he felt humiliated and dreading having to tell his family, friends and co-workers that his wife wanted out after 2 weeks (and basically 2 days in) was important.  Regardless of what his lifestyle choices are or are not, I think he was committed to doing it and making it work.  I did feel terrible for him wondering if it was him and if he was destined to be alone.  I think we've all been there.

Also want to say that I liked what Rachel did with Lily and Tom.  While I do think Lily may have been a touch over reactive to the news of the surgery I also think she's just coming off a very highly charged and emotional time.  I had a partner of ten years who didn't want to deal with a medical issue so she's fortunate that Tom appears to be supportive and understanding.  I think Nick and Sonia could learn from his very calmly and nonconfrontationally telling Lily that they need to talk and then talking. 

Nick and Sonia . . . oh boy.  I so want for them to work out.  I do think that Nick is basically introverted.  Maybe he's uncomfortable on camera, I don't know.  I do like that Sonia pointed out that she's never been on camera before, never been on a reality show, never been married.  I think sometimes we all lose sight of that.  I have moments of feeling like they can make it and other moments where . . . oy.   I do hope with the preview snippet from next week that the editing monkeys are messing with us and Nick is referring to someone else when he says he's "not attracted to her" and "doesn't like her."  I hope it's not Sonia.  

I wonder if the show will continue to give us little bits of Derek and/or Heather on their own or if they are out now.  I know we see Derek telling his mom (?) about what happened.  Wonder if Heather will do the same?  Are they still contractually obligated to appear on the show?   

[Snarklepuss]

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I am tired of all this, "Nick is gay" nonsense.  That sounds like shit guys heap on women if they're not interested, "you must be a lesbian if you don't want me."  No asshole, I'm just not into YOU.  Nick isn't into Sonia and I get why; there doesn't seem to be anything that would bind them together.  Here in NYC, people meet each other walking their dogs, at the dog park, etc, it's like you start off having something in common, love of dogs, love of animals; the point it, you start with something.  I keep sensing that Nick and Sonia have NOTHING in common, except being on this show.

I might agree with you in other cases, but I really don't think Nick is gay just because he's not interested in Sonia.  I think he's gay because I think he's gay.  It has nothing to do with what's going on with Sonia, although I have to admit that doesn't help!  I'm still not against the idea of him being bisexual perhaps with a very specific type of woman.  A lot of people can switch teams for the right person but only with the right person, and it would take a very specific type or "je ne sais quoi" for them to be physically attracted to them.  Nick may not even be that aware of himself to know that in order to be attracted to a woman it has to be that specific, BTW.

[Enero]

14 minutes ago, Snarklepuss said:

I might agree with you in other cases, but I really don't think Nick is gay just because he's not interested in Sonia.  I think he's gay because I think he's gay.  It has nothing to do with what's going on with Sonia, although I have to admit that doesn't help!  I'm still not against the idea of him being bisexual perhaps with a very specific type of woman.  A lot of people can switch teams for the right person but only with the right person, and it would take a very specific type or "je ne sais quoi" for them to be physically attracted to them.  Nick may not even be that aware of himself to know that in order to be attracted to a woman it has to be that specific, BTW.

I agree with this. It's also not helping how he talks about women, in a way that sounds as if he's been more of an observer of male relationships with women rather than having a relationship with a woman himself. 

I'll probably get stoned for this but I think he's a little too metro, not in the things he likes but his mannerisms. If he's not gay I could totally see him being bi-sexual. 

Edited September 14, 2016 by Enero

[Snarklepuss]

^^^  BINGO, thanks @Enero!

3 hours ago, Vinyasa said:

I am a bit surprised the producers didn't make Heather continue with the marriage.

Maybe they just let it end early because she would likely be an "Ashley"  just show up for filming and not speak to the guy. We already know the end to that movie.

Not worth their effort to film that!

I think the show let Heather say "buh bye" because they were able to let her finish out her contract by stretching out the aftermath to fill up the show and just generally exasperate everyone on this board, LOL.  I wouldn't be surprised if either she or Derek end up on that MAFS "Second Chances" show we heard about a couple of months ago.

[SaucyMommy]

This episode really frustrated me. 

I was NOT surprised at all that Derek and Heather split up. I just am more annoyed they dragged it out this long. Heather is dead inside. I don't think she will ever get married if she continues to be so nit picky. Granted Derek is no prize, but she didn't even give it a chance.

I feel bad for Sonia. I don't think Nick likes her at all. I was hoping he was just being shy. But he pretty much cleared it up. He's just not that in to her. I don't know if he's gay but he for sure doesn't seem like he is in to women. He said "I like your butt and boobs" Then in the TH said he had a lot of Jack Daniels in him. As if he needs to be drunk to find her attractive. That makes me sad - because I think she is the prettiest of all the ladies.

I know I should care about Lily and Tom but they are meh to me.

[Neurochick]

Question:  If it turns out that Nick is gay, could Sonia sue the producers?  Could the producers sue Nick for fraud? 

I'm asking because I assume that the participants present themselves as heterosexual and this is a show about heterosexual marriage.  Would that be fraud if you said you presented as heterosexual, knowing you weren't?

[SaucyMommy]

Just now, Neurochick said:

Question:  If it turns out that Nick is gay, could Sonia sue the producers?  Could the producers sue Nick for fraud? 

I'm asking because I assume that the participants present themselves as heterosexual and this is a show about heterosexual marriage.  Would that be fraud if you said you presented as heterosexual, knowing you weren't?

I would hope so. I really don't think he's straight and the longer this goes on I think he's doing this for publicity for his clothing line. I feel bad for Sonia because she seems so incredibly sweet!

[Vinyasa]

Quote

 IMO Heather has kept it pretty classy in the end there. She didn't trash him when she probably could have.....and with many of us now wondering WTF went down that we didn't see or hear about.

I don't know if I'd call it "classy" but it was short and to the point.

We need a producer to spill the beans to find out what really did happen between them (like someone did in Season 2). If we don't get Kevin Frazier at the reunion show, all bets are off for the getting the good stuff.

[Neurochick]

4 minutes ago, SaucyMommy said:

I would hope so. I really don't think he's straight and the longer this goes on I think he's doing this for publicity for his clothing line. I feel bad for Sonia because she seems so incredibly sweet!

So why hasn't anybody said anything?  This show is on TV.  If someone knows him, knows he's gay (if he is), why hasn't that come out? (so to speak)

[SaucyMommy]

Just now, Neurochick said:

So why hasn't anybody said anything?  This show is on TV.  If someone knows him, knows he's gay (if he is), why hasn't that come out? (so to speak)

Not totally sure. I was not of the people that thought he was gay before - but something feels off to me about him. Maybe he's in the closet still? I have no idea. But He needs to be honest with her.

[Neurochick]

1 minute ago, SaucyMommy said:

Not totally sure. I was not of the people that thought he was gay before - but something feels off to me about him. Maybe he's in the closet still? I have no idea. But He needs to be honest with her.

Yeah, but somebody always knows, even if it's just a rumor.  If that's the case, if he is gay then I'm sure the show and Sonia could sue Nick because he misrepresented himself.

[ciaoformeow]

Heathers outfit was cute. Her hair looked great too.

Thats all I got. I'm so happy I won't have to look at her forever-frowning face. Her voice was even a downer. Personally I can 100% understand needing to be high out of my mind at alllll times just to tolerate her presence (unless she's drunk, of course - that's the only time she let her guard down enough to be fun)

Look, nobody wants to be around someone who seems miserable all the time Heather. But nobody wants to be around someone who they feel makes them miserable. So kudos to Heather for making that choice for herself early on. 

I'm sure she'll be a great match for someone and I'm sure he will be too. 

[lh25]

1 hour ago, holly4755 said:

But I should talk, I burst into tears when the eye doctor told me I had viral pink eye and that lasts like 2 months -  I was thinking 2 months of boiling sheets and pillow cases on the stove while trying to work as a consultant. The doctor then brought me up short mocking me when he said his liver was failing and he would be dead in less than a year and he was. it is all perspective.

OK, I get that pink eye isn't the same as a failing liver, but when it's your deal it matters.

I have cancer and am getting treatment right now, and I'm here to say chemo s*cks.  I've had friends say things like "I feel bad complaining about my problems when you are facing what you are".  I tell them that their problems are important as well, since they are what my friends are facing.  If that makes any sense?

There is some perspective involved of course, and Lily is pretty young and perhaps hasn't had to deal with health issues before.  Add to that her new and unusual marriage, and I can see being concerned.  Esp since their relationship seems to be slanted towards the physical still.

[RocketGirl]

So Nick is not into Sonia...is that a crime?  Maybe he wants someone who loves dogs, is slimmer and more athletic, is perhaps more intellectually challenging to him, less in need of constant validation, and less in debt.  Maybe it's a little too awkward for him to come right out with that on national TV.  He may have initially been open to possibilities with her, but has found the constant drum beat of her expectations a turn off.  I can understand his desire to see things develop organically and not because they are forced.  At least he isn't totally leading her on with his actions.  If he was, then he'd be tarred and feathered as another Basement Ryan.

On her part, why is she so anxious to have sex with a guy who so obviously isn't into her?  While nice, she strikes me as being a bit shallow and immature, and seems to just want to be married and have kids...with any guy.  Nick may find her boring.

[Aethera]

Hey all - we had a report about some discussion of the previews in this topic.

For MAFS, for some reason, the previews come mid-episode, instead of at the end, so we'll consider them part of the episode - they're hard to miss. A reference to them is totally fine in the episode threads.  However, if you want to get off into a big discussion about what happened in the previews, it's probably better to post in the Spoiler and Speculation thread about it so as not to derail the thread.

This is one of those grey area, "everyone use your best judgment" sort of things. :)

[RocketGirl]

28 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Question:  If it turns out that Nick is gay, could Sonia sue the producers?  Could the producers sue Nick for fraud? 

I'm asking because I assume that the participants present themselves as heterosexual and this is a show about heterosexual marriage.  Would that be fraud if you said you presented as heterosexual, knowing you weren't?

Did it turn out that Sean is gay?  Would Davina have grounds for a lawsuit in that case?

[SaucyMommy]

When they were doing the Tantra touching she looked really relaxed and he looked petrified. I wondered if he just didn't like her or was scared of the cameras. I really don't think he likes her at all. I mean she is nice, but it is coming off desperate if you want someone to touch you when they clearly don't - pushing them will only make them defensive. He just seems like he is shutting down more and more every episode that goes on.

[Liberty]

5 minutes ago, RocketGirl said:

So Nick is not into Sonia...is that a crime?  Maybe he wants someone who loves dogs, is slimmer and more athletic, is perhaps more intellectually challenging to him, less in need of constant validation, and less in debt....  

...Nick may find her boring.

Good first post ROCKETGIRL!  Welcome to the FORUMS.

Sounds like a bad job of matching him with the female of his dreams.  Doubt she is the boring one in the marriage.