S08.E20: Say It Ain't So

[WireWrap]

6 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

Clutching Tongues

Maybe Tom should hook up with Vicki (OC)! LOL..........ok, ok, I am leaving. LOL

3 minutes ago, BananaRama said:

Luann is a mother.  She should ask herself, "Would I want my daughter to marry someone who cheats on her and humiliates her in front of everyone?" or "Would I want my son to treat his fiancé the way that Tom treats me?"  Hopefully, she would answer no to both questions. 

 

Luann did not blame Adam, she went after Carole.

 

5 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I am a little ashamed of myself for not anticipating that Luann would suggest what happened was the fault of this mystery woman and her filthy, evil clutches.  Of course she would think that ... because that's how SHE operates. So she assumes other women are that way, too.  Or they are doormats whose feelings don't matter because in her world men are men, women are women and they do what they want and the hell with how it effects people who don't matter to her.

 

Luann didn't get mad at Adam over the Carole/Adam hookup so I do think she puts greater emphasis on how women act then how men act. I don't think it is just because this is how she would behave but how she was raised and/or who she became after the Count started to cheat on her during their marriage.

[OFDgal]

3 hours ago, AnitaKnight said:

Cleaning out her jewelry box of the stuff Jason gave her?

She probably wouldn't admit that he gave her any jewelry.

[WireWrap]

3 minutes ago, KungFuBunny said:

 

 

 

Bunny (Not the one from the Regency Bar)

So you say but has Bethenny verified it wasn't you? LOL          j/k

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

Bethenny I believe referred to Hoppy as a "thief" and also possibly as a bamboozler? What is that exactly? I see booze in the word but I mean, idk. That's a pretty direct slam. She probably views that he steals Brynn every time she's with him as well. Sad. It's my opinion that some of that fame, success, etc was well earned money on his part as well and he had some due. Thief? No. Not to me. 

[Xcptnl]

14 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Well, we know that Lu thinks you can't steal a man, but you apparently can use your clutches  to lead him astray.

Bethenny might be nasty, but at least she's not pathetic. Lu is sad and pitiful. She barely knows this man. You would think that she knows herself and her dynamics with Bethenny to know that Bethenny had to come with receipts. And even if she doesn't, what is Lu implying? That Bethenny hates her so much that she put a bounty on Tom? Spiked his drink? Has spies all over town to catch him fucking up? That is too ludicrous to even dignify. And the fact that she and Tom are trying to cover this shit up highlights the thing that I've always hated about Luann. She is shady, shallow, and all surface. And she's afraid to be alone. And not just alone, but afraid to be without a man. It's the reason why Bethenny had to have every last detail of what went down at the Regency because she knows Lu doesn't like Bethenny and has never been inclined to trust any woman ever.

Not pathetic?   Uh yes she is.  

[kira28]

15 hours ago, enchantingmonkey said:

 

I especially loved the part later in the episode when LuAnn admitted (claimed) that she'd had a fight with Tom the night he played kissy face with that other woman, but she seemed bewildered as to how or why it all happened when she was in the hotel room with Bethenny.  

Lu is the typical scorned partner.. Blame the person ur hubby fiance or wife cheated with.  I work with a woman whose husband cheated on her and got his mistress pregnant.. She totally blamed the other woman stuck by him even though they had no children together at 45,had a band aid baby to "save the marriage" and he continued his affair for four more years and she was devastated to find out he has two children with the mistress the youngest born  after their child.  Yet she blames the women who tempt her husband. I dated a guy who divorced his wife because she cheated and got pregnant.. He'd has a vasectomy so he knew it wasn't his.  Six years later he hates the man she cheated with because "he ripped apart my family.. Um no ur cheating whore ex wife did that when she chose to have unprotected sex with someone not her husband. 

So Luann just gave Tom free reign to cheat on her indefinitely and I'm sure he will and has no remorse

 I think she totally made up the thing about they were fighting so it didn't look as bad and gave him an excuse for betraying her.  I think luann is crazy for putting up with that.. Pathetic is not a good look on her.  

Bethany did seem to have too many details

Dorinda has the right idea.. Don't get married live separate lives but enjoy each other's company.  Carol and adam were cute together

[Nancybeth]

Did Bethenny make the rest of her guests stand around and watch the Housewives break a pinata and scramble to scoop up $10,000+ in jewelry??  How tacky. 

I assume that Andy or one of the producers was B's "source" and did the research/legwork for her, and then just fed her the info.  I'm usually a Bethenny fan, but OMG, the sturm and drung over the last two eps about telling Luann has killed any remaining love I had for her.  I think if she had been a lot more forthright and strong and calm about telling the Countess, perhaps the Countess wouldn't have been quite so willing to let the whole thing blow over.

[Yours Truly]

54 minutes ago, Jextella said:

Major bag of mixed emotions on this one.  I agree with Ramona's assessment of LuAnne.  She wants to be in love and hopes so much that she found it that she believes she has.  Meanwhile, the guy is making out with another woman in a bar - and in a very physical way and for a very prolonged period of time.  Blinders?  Big time.

On the flip side, I agree with Luanne that giving Tom a second chance is not a bad thing.

After having reached a certain age and experienced a few challenges, I understand keeping an otherwise enjoyable companion who had a single indiscretion rather than immediately tossing him away.  Life's too short to let that one moment derail all the rest.  Even that.

If he slips again, that changes the story. Once? At Luanne's age? With a strong desire for a man in her life?  I have no problem with it.  

Having said this, I do hope she proceeds with caution (and a prenup).

Yeah,  I see it through the eyes of a non youngin (not saying that those who are older on this forum can't still hold on to the "one and done" attitude) but it makes complete sense to me that after living so many years of absolute decisions in a life full of grey isn't very practical. I mean unless you want to always be alone. Wanting a companion isn't something to be ashamed of. And allowing that detail about yourself be factored into major decisions shouldn't be considered such a pathetic thing. I do think it was a throw away moment. I don't think Lu needs to throw away whatever she feels she's found with this man because of what it looks to the outside world. I think Lu's a big girl and should be allowed to make her own decisions without it being some big "let's bash Lu" ordeal. I get the whole, "I'd rather be alone than subject myself to the horrors of a flawed person" but at some point people tend to weigh just how "terrible" certain acts are and use their own insight into the particulars to determine the severity. To some that display is completely unacceptable and unforgivable. To others, me included, I wouldn't allow that to derail my relationship that much that it was beyond repair.  Some people think it's completely unfathomable to make allowances but that's life.

This philosophy is based on the idea that companions are like the NYC Subway where you KNOW for sure there's another train on it's way. Considering how many trains have passed me by and how many either kicked me off or I've jumped off of I'm at a point in my life where I've come to the conclusion that shit happens, will happen and BS is alive and well so I'd better find a less rigid approach to the train rides I've got left before I'm just chilling on the platform with no one to witness my life and no ones life to witness. Might sound pathetic to some but some people just don't want to miss out on something special because they've decided to play it safe or by societies standards.  Sometimes even bad boys can surprise you. But you have to take the risk and our Lu has decided to take that risk. I've done the same thing. Took a leap with 2 very very shaky partners, knew that there were red flags EVERYWHERE and I still took the plunge cause in my mind I figured "won't know for sure til I give it a shot". Can't win big unless you gamble big.  I get it. Right now I've checked out of the game, gotta lick my wounds but I also know that if I ever decide to jump back in I'll be considering unconventional details due to the circumstance in my life and the Chapter I am in as well as how many Chapters I feel I  have left. There's a lot more to it than societies (outdated) text book responses.

I think this is playing out way more pathetic because it's been give such a slasher movie background soundtrack that just heightens the dramatics of the choppy details provided. Lu's not helping matters by flopping around like a fish outta water trying to "defend her man". It just needs to die a quick death and be done with.  At the end of the day it's more about the humiliation of Lu and the roles the other ladies played in that. Just because Tom got the ball rolling with that theme doesn't absolve the others in the joy displayed at Lu's obvious devastation. These are SEPARATE issues not all just rolled up in Welp, TOM'S the one that DID IT the others AREN'T the ones who did ANYTHING to Lu. Ummm no, delighting in this embarrassing information, in Lu's pain, and using her moment of vulnerability to twist the knife? That's not some faultess act of innocent bystanders.

GTFOH with that mess.

Edited August 25, 2016 by Yours Truly

[OFDgal]

3 hours ago, izabella said:

Lu's "stop talking about me" seemed like she came in too early before her cue with a pre-rehearsed line, like production was telling her Bethy and her Beasts were talking about her. 

Frankly, a lot of this episode seemed acted.  I had a hard time getting enraged by it because they all seemed like they were acting, all of them.  Maybe not Jules, but the rest of the coven wasn't being natural (Bethy and her strategically positioned life-giving bottle of booze on the bed was hilarious).

My daughter came in while I was watching it and noticed the SG products immediately.  So I guess Beth's strategic positioning worked unfortunately.  I told her that every scene this year with her had SG products in it.  She is in her 30's and said that she and her friends had tried SG and hated it.  Product placement doesn't work if the product sucks.  

[straightshooter]

14 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Dorinda never said that Tom asked her to "lie" for him, she said that he wanted to bring over 2 of the bartenders to tell her what happened that night and that she was supposed to go tell (mediate for him/Luann) the others what they said to stop them talking about this. It was Ramona that said he was asking her to lie.

Reminds me a little bit of when Brooks and Vicki wanted it to be Tamra who vouched for them and the faux PET/CT report.   Why do grown people need "mediators" (aka spinners) for stupid crap like this?  Maybe they thought that doing it with Dorinda would make it possible to keep it quiet and off-air, though.  

[Yours Truly]

40 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Why would I give a guy who got drunk and got caught making out the way he did the benefit of the doubt? 

When people show you who they are, believe them!

Benefit of the doubt?

All I'm refering to is the accuracy of this idea that Dorinda feels or claims that Tom asked her to lie for him. Based on what we know Tom wanted to bring in third parties to share what they saw happen. Those details are then turned into some hard core fact that Tom wanted/requested/demanded that Dorinda lie for him and that hasn't actually been shown to be the case based on the information provided.

[straightshooter]

On 8/25/2016 at 10:56 AM, Yours Truly said:

Yeah,  I see it through the eyes of a non youngin (not saying that those who are older on this forum can't still hold on to the "one and gone" attitude) but it makes complete sense to me that after living so many years of absolute decisions in a life full of grey isn't very practical. I mean unless you want to always be alone. Wanting a companion isn't something to be ashamed of. And allowing that detail about yourself be factored into major decisions shouldn't be considered such a pathetic thing. I do think it was a throw away moment. I don't think Lu needs to throw away whatever she feels she's found with this man because of what it looks to the outside world. I think Lu's a big girl and should be allowed to make her own decisions without it being some big "let's bash Lu" ordeal. I get the whole, "I'd rather be alone than subject myself to the horrors of a flawed person" but at some point people tend to weigh just how "terrible" certain acts are and use their own insight into the particulars to determine the severity. To some that display is completely unacceptable and unforgivable. To others, me included, I wouldn't allow that to derail my relationship that much that it was beyond repair.  Some people think it's completely unfathomable to make allowances but that's life.

This philosophy is based on the idea that companions are like the NYC Subway where you KNOW for sure there's another train on it's way. Considering how many trains have passed me by and how many either kicked me off or I've jumped off of I'm at a point in my life where I've come to the conclusion that shit happens, will happen and BS is alive and well so I'd better find a less rigid approach to the train rides I've got left before I'm just chilling on the platform with no one to witness my life and no ones life to witness. Might sound pathetic to some but some people just don't want to miss out on something special because they've decided to play it safe or by societies standards.  Sometimes even bad boys can surprise you. But you have to take the risk and our Lu has decided to take that risk. I've done the same thing. Took a leap with 2 very very shaky partners, knew that there were red flags EVERYWHERE and I still took the plunge cause in my mind I figured "won't know for sure til I give it a shot". Can't win big unless you gamble big.  I get it. Right now I've checked out of the game, gotta lick my wounds but I also know that if I ever decide to jump back in I'll be considering unconventional details due to the circumstance in my life and the Chapter I am in as well as how many Chapters I feel I  have left. There's a lot more to it than societies (outdated) text book responses.

 

I'm not a youngun, and I've personally had quite a bit of personal experience with this subject.  I can tell you right now, though, that the quandary was never whether I wanted to be alone vs. with an imperfect person.   The question was "would I rather be alone than with someone who doesn't respect me, our relationship or my feelings?"  

In a case like LuAnn's, where she has known the cheater-in-question for four weeks and has no children with him, nor years of memories together, nor financial ties, my answer would be, "HELL, YES."

Edited August 28, 2016 by straightshooter
cause I'm just not a fan of that word - enthusiasm overcame me

[ivygirl]

1 hour ago, Natalie68 said:

Yes her opinions ARE very sexist!  And old fashioned.  But I love a good dick out in the bar story.  Perhaps the bartender was named Harry!

The bartender was hairy! Didn't B say he had a big beard?

[ElDosEquis]

15 minutes ago, straightshooter said:

Reminds me a little bit of when Brooks and Vicki wanted it to be Tamra who vouched for them and the faux PET/CT report.   Why do grown people need "mediators" (aka spinners) for stupid crap like this?  Maybe they thought that doing it with Dorinda would make it possible to keep it quiet and off-air, though.  

Why?

La lengua castiga mas.

Your tongue will get you in serious trouble.

If someone told me my wife was cheating, I'd gladly tell them that I appreciated that tidbit of info and I'd be damned if I ever trusted THAT person with any pertinent info in the future. I will send them off with a pat on the head and tell them to MTOFB next time.

Then I am going to track down my SO and we are going to hash it out.

I do not need to hear from any 'friend' waitstaff, bunny, oracle, seer or loan officer, I am going to go straight to the horse's mouth and feed that fucker, see what comes out the other end?

I have some pretty juicy info from friends - info that would ruin couples and marriages, but what good does it do me to ruin someone's happiness?

[motorcitymom65]

4 hours ago, njbchlover said:

I wish we knew what that fight between Luann and Tom was about.  Also, first, Luann said that she and Tom were at the Regency, then I think she kind of backtracked.  

I wonder if maybe they were at the Regency and that woman from Tom's past was there, as well, trying to get her "clutches" into Tom while he was there with Luann?  Could they have possibly had a fight over that?  Tom was only a few days/week into his engagement - not so easy to change his flirtatious ways in that short amount of time.  If the woman is from Tom's past, chances are maybe she didn't know he was engaged, and maybe Tom didn't jump up and down, squealing like a tweenager, and shove Luann's ringed finger in the woman's face.

I'm just speculating here, but perhaps that is what caused the whole thing.  Luann may have gotten jealous, they had a fight - she goes home, he stays (or goes to the Regency, depending on the version of the story) - he has a few more drinks (or a lot of drinks) with that woman, and they have a few flirty smooches at the bar.  He regrets his behavior and hightails it out of there, leaving the bunny with the check.

So now, Luann is feeling as if she is the one who drove him into this situation because she was jealous and fought with him.  I know that's the wrong way to feel, but Luann does seem to forgive a man's bad behavior in a relationship much more than a woman's.

Not excusing him in any way, but just wondering if this is how it could have possibly gone down.

ETA:  From the photo we saw, it didn't appear like they were liplocked for over an hour or however long Bethenny said it was.  I'm sorry, I don't think anyone of a certain age, drunk or not, would be making out non-stop for over an hour while sitting directly at a bar.  Maybe in a booth or table at the bar, but not right at the bar.

I don't think there was a fight. That is just an excuse she is using to help him justify his crappy behavior. If there had been a fight, she would have said something about it at the time. All of her "how could that be, that doesn't make any sense" stuff she was saying in the moment told the true story. She never mentioned an argument to Beth, or to Dorinda, or Sonja, or Ramona. She never mentioned it while on the phone with Tom. She never mentioned it in her TH when going over how she felt. 

This is exactly like what happened in T&C last season. She was so "cool" about the guy staying at the house, about Heather and Carole coming into her room. There she stood in all her "Yummie Tummie" loveliness. She reacted in the appropriate manner. She said the right things. It was only after, when she realized that someone had mentioned something about making out with a married stranger that she decided to be pissed off.

This time I think she reacted appropriately as well - whatever that might mean. She seemed very hurt. Very shocked. She looked like she was crazed; maybe in shock. She was just reacting to what was happening, not really thinking about it. She didn't care why Beth told her; she was just glad that she did. She didn't care how Beth had come across that information, asking what on earth that could possibly matter in light of the pictures she was looking at. Despite what some have said, she didn't look upset to hear that Beth had told others before her. She acted like this was expected; one gal to tell her friends a secret she didn't know what to do with. I saw zero evidence that this upset Lu one iota. 

Like last season, she got mad later. Last season it was the fear of once again being called out for less than desirable morals. This season she got mad as she tried to figure out a way to get her d-bag of a boyfriend off the hook. Probably less because she actually loves him, and more because she doesn't want for Beth - or any of the others - to have been right about him. This is the thing that is so shocking. I think she would actually go through the with a wedding just so that the others aren't proven right. Although they will be in the end. When he really fucks her over. 

[Primetimer]

LuAnn experiences the five stages of grief, landing on the saddest possible version of 'acceptance.'

View the full article

[MMLEsq]

I'll bet Luann's children were thrilled to hear that Tom is "her whole life."  

The situation just seems sad.  Luann has painted a picture of a fairy-tale romance/engagement -- cracks in the story (fighting? cheating? "counseling" before the wedding even takes place?, etc.) be damned.  Rather than take a step back and think about whether and why she's rushing into things with Tom, she's instead decided to double-down.  Like I said, I just think it's sad.

I'm actually quite surprised that once they got engaged they're actually waiting as long as they are to get married.  There's a definite sense of desperation coming from Lu, so I kind of expected her to push for a quick wedding, just to ensure that Tom didn't have time to change his mind.  

Edited August 25, 2016 by MMLEsq

[izabella]

36 minutes ago, OFDgal said:

My daughter came in while I was watching it and noticed the SG products immediately.  So I guess Beth's strategic positioning worked unfortunately.  I told her that every scene this year with her had SG products in it.  She is in her 30's and said that she and her friends had tried SG and hated it.  Product placement doesn't work if the product sucks.  

I tried the margarita long ago, once, and poured it down the drain.  I do, however, use the bottle in the summer.  I have container plants on my deck and the bottle is useful to fill with water and put it into those terra cotta osmosis spikes that are driven into the dirt to keep the plant evenly watered when I'm out of town.

[BananaRama]

4 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I think Adam is only with Carole because she's on TV and he wants to build his "brand" so being with her is a way to be seen.

I think you are giving Adam too much credit.  He always seems so spaced-out.  I think his vegan & marijuana diet have made him anemic and drained his ambition. Reminds me of a quote from the movie "Jackie Brown."

Ordell Robbie:
That (weed) shit'll rob you of your ambitions

Melanie:
Not if your ambition is to get high and watch TV.

[Knuckles]

Do all the howives have it in their contracts that they have to get dressed up and attend every SG promotion Bethy throws?

Clearly that event was not a "party" by anyone's definition. The glaring, mall lighting, the near empty room, the cheap props, and the poor bartenders, paid to keep their shirts unbuttoned. What was pleasant or festive about any of it? And screaming across the room to 86 the vegan ceviche??...truckstop behavior. Top it off with 10k worth of jewelry in the piñata, and only the howives could try for it?? So, everyone else was simply a hired hand. Clearly it was a commercial event that is a tax write-off for Bethy or for Beam.

Has Suntory/Beam decided on no ad budget for this stuff? Shouldn't it be disclosed if attendance is mandatory? Who in their right mind would give up an evening and go to be background in a commercial.

[Celia Rubenstein]

4 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Benefit of the doubt?

All I'm refering to is the accuracy of this idea that Dorinda feels or claims that Tom asked her to lie for him. Based on what we know Tom wanted to bring in third parties to share what they saw happen. Those details are then turned into some hard core fact that Tom wanted/requested/demanded that Dorinda lie for him and that hasn't actually been shown to be the case based on the information provided.

Why would Tom want these waiters to speak to Dorinda? It could only be because what they were going to say to her was something that would benefit him.  And what would benefit Tom was someone downplaying what went on that night. So we can assume that is what the waiters were going to do. There is just no other reason to have them talk to her.

But Tom just came out in the press and acknowledged making this "terrible mistake" that he deeply regrets.  He is admitting he did something bad.  But, as we have already established, Tom was going to get these waiters to tell Dorinda he HADN'T done anything so bad.  Which means Tom was going to have these waiters lie to Dorinda. Her perception that she was being manipulated into spreading a pack of lies around to help Tom is completely justified. In my opinion,  anyway.

And even if you disagree with my logic and conclusions, remember Tom got angry and threatened to ice Dorinda out if she didn't do what he wanted. People with clean hands don't usually get pissed off and start making  threats that way.  But dishonest manipulative people whose schemes are being thwarted DO.

[beesknees]

16 hours ago, Bronzedog said:

Even if Tom takes the woman he was making out with on their honeymoon, Luanne will marry him.  She's one desperate bitch.

I can't believe people in their 50s act like this.

ZaldamoWilder - We'll stop talking about you!  Please don't leave us!  You bring the party!  You don't even have to bring us a piñata.

Good Lord, I hope you weren't serious about your leaving.  I always love your posts and I wish you were a recapper on this site.

[Muffyn]

Adam all cleaned up with a haircut and a shiny new suit still looks like he needs a Silkwood shower.  He makes me itchy.

[Yours Truly]

30 minutes ago, straightshooter said:

I'm not a youngun, and I've personally had quite a bit of personal experience with this subject.  I can tell you right now, though, that the quandary was never whether I wanted to be alone vs. with an imperfect person.   The question was "would I rather be alone than with someone who doesn't respect me, our relationship or my feelings?"  

In a case like LuAnn's, where she has known the cheater-in-question for four weeks and has no children with him, nor years of memories together, nor financial ties, my answer would be, "FUCK, YES."

And with her personal insight into the situation she's decided that the offense doesn't amount to all that. Hence people determining the severity of a situation based on circumstance only they are completely privy to.  The consensus is that Lu's rationale is simplistic and immature and I think Lu is far from immature. I'm just suggesting that it's not all that unusual for people to give second chances is all especially at Lu's stage in the game. I don't find it the least bit extraordinary or pathetic. Just par for the course.

[zoeysmom]

6 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Why would Tom want these waiters to speak to Dorinda? It could only be because what they were going to say to her was something that would benefit him.  And what would benefit Tom was someone downplaying what went on that night. So we can assume that is what the waiters were going to do. There is just no other reason to have them talk to her.

But Tom just came out in the press and acknowledged making this "terrible mistake" that he deeply regrets.  He is admitting he did something bad.  But, as we have already established, Tom was going to get these waiters to tell Dorinda he HADN'T done anything so bad.  Which means Tom was going to have these waiters lie to Dorinda. Her perception that she was being manipulated into spreading a pack of lies around to help Tom is completely justified. In my opinion,  anyway.

And even if you disagree with my logic and conclusions, remember Tom got angry and threatened to ice Dorinda out if she didn't do what he wanted. People with clean hands don't usually get pissed off and start making  threats that way.  But dishonest manipulative people whose schemes are being thwarted DO.

Well Tom wanted them filmed.  I am going to say there is no guarantee what would come out of their mouths.  How would anyone conclude the waiters were lying without hearing their story?  I wanted to hear from them, because usually these things go terribly wrong for the orchestrator. One could easily conclude that perhaps the waiters had the dirt on John, the player, given Dorinda's reluctance.

I think Dorinda could have been more supportive of Tom and Luann, collectively or individually, she expects respect from the others regarding John 

Why did Dorinda feel the need to tell Ramona?  A simple no to Tom would suffice.

[HunterHunted]

LuAnn has always been a bit of a chauvinist. You can see a bit of it as she tries to tease out an explanation of her "open/not open" marriage that doesn't cast Alex in a bad light. She starts with "yes, we had an open marriage," then moves to "I had an amazing 16 year marriage and it was only open for a short time," and finally settles on "I had a wonderful marriage for 12 years and it was open against my will for the final 4 years." For as long as she's been divorced, she really  shouldn't have had to go through the mental gymnastics to explain her views and narrative of her marriage and its dissolution. How hard is it to say that for 12 years her marriage was perfect, but during that last 4 years it wasn't so great. During those final 4 years, Alex was a good father and friend, but he was a terrible partner because he couldn't remain faithful or monogamous.

When Carole and Adam started dating, LuAnn focused all of her ire on Carole. It was especially ridiculous because nearly every criticism Lu brought up indicated that she should  be livid with Adam and warning Carole to protect herself. But of course that didn't happen. How on earth LuAnn managed spin her claim that Adam was still sleeping with Nicole and stringing her along, while lying to Carole into being Carole's transgression is beyond me.

So it's not really surprising that she's making excuses for Tom and fixated on Bethenny's detective work. Is the issue really that Bethenny is too intrusive in your relationship? Or that your future partner waited a damn hour before he betrayed you in public? Naturally LuAnn focuses on what Bethenny, the woman, has done wrong and not Tom.

Then there is the fact that LuAnn hates having her less than savory business out in public.

[Yours Truly]

21 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

Why would Tom want these waiters to speak to Dorinda? It could only be because what they were going to say to her was something that would benefit him.  And what would benefit Tom was someone downplaying what went on that night. So we can assume that is what the waiters were going to do. There is just no other reason to have them talk to her.

But Tom just came out in the press and acknowledged making this "terrible mistake" that he deeply regrets.  He is admitting he did something bad.  But, as we have already established, Tom was going to get these waiters to tell Dorinda he HADN'T done anything so bad.  Which means Tom was going to have these waiters lie to Dorinda. Her perception that she was being manipulated into spreading a pack of lies around to help Tom is completely justified. In my opinion,  anyway.

And even if you disagree with my logic and conclusions, remember Tom got angry and threatened to ice Dorinda out if she didn't do what he wanted. People with clean hands don't usually get pissed off and start making  threats that way.  But dishonest manipulative people whose schemes are being thwarted DO.

Downplay something or give more accurate accounts than Beth the exaggerator?

I'm just saying that it doesn't reek of underhandedness to try to get someone to protray something as it was instead of something that's been turned into a tonsil hockey session for two hours.

Getting a more balance account doesn't negate what was done but it doesn't automatically mean that he was trying to get people to lie. Totally admit that he was trying to do damage control but that's far from asking someone to lie for them and that's far from enough to start claiming that someone asked YOU to lie for THEM.  I'm only debating how it went from Tom wanting Dorinda to hear the events from an "impartial" source to Tom demanding Dorinda to tell a bold face lie.  One thing is different than the other.

That's all I'm pointing out. And all without mental gymnastics.

Edited August 25, 2016 by Yours Truly

[Ki-in]

1 hour ago, Muffyn said:

 

Adam all cleaned up with a haircut and a shiny new suit still looks like he needs a Silkwood shower.  He makes me itchy.

 

Carole bought him his first big boy suit with long pants and clip on tie. I bet she gave him a lollipop after his haircut.

 

BTW, he looked happier to see Luann than I have ever seen him look with Carole. She must bore him as much as she does us. 

[straightshooter]

1 hour ago, Yours Truly said:

And with her personal insight into the situation she's decided that the offense doesn't amount to all that. Hence people determining the severity of a situation based on circumstance only they are completely privy to.  The consensus is that Lu's rationale is simplistic and immature and I think Lu is far from immature. I'm just suggesting that it's not all that unusual for people to give second chances is all especially at Lu's stage in the game. I don't find it the least bit extraordinary or pathetic. Just par for the course.

I totally see where you're coming from and I agree that in some instances, a second chance is worth it - and the best for all involved in the situation.   Of course, Lu made the choice that she felt was right for her.  The way I see it, though, is that if he's doing that a few weeks in - in the few days between the engagement and the engagement party, that's a BAD, bad sign.   Perhaps Lu doesn't quite know this "soul mate" of hers well enough.   Perhaps that is exactly WHY he is her soul mate, though - and she's down for an open relationship from the get-go this time.  Who knows?  We sure don't!

I haven't gotten the feeling that there is a consensus that Lu is immature and simplistic as much as that she is just flat out desperate.   I think she's desperate for more than just a man, and I'm not sure yet as to how long the full list of motivations must be, but I believe she is reeeeeeeally desperate for a man, and that's just so sad.

[WireWrap]

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

LuAnn has always been a bit of a chauvinist. You can see a bit of it as she tries to tease out an explanation of her "open/not open" marriage that doesn't cast Alex in a bad light. She starts with "yes, we had an open marriage," then moves to "I had an amazing 16 year marriage and it was only open for a short time," and finally settles on "I had a wonderful marriage for 12 years and it was open against my will for the final 4 years." For as long as she's been divorced, she really  shouldn't have had to go through the mental gymnastics to explain her views and narrative of her marriage and its dissolution. How hard is it to say that for 12 years her marriage was perfect, but during that last 4 years it wasn't so great. During those final 4 years, Alex was a good father and friend, but he was a terrible partner because he couldn't remain faithful or monogamous.

When Carole and Adam started dating, LuAnn focused all of her ire on Carole. It was especially ridiculous because nearly every criticism Lu brought up indicated that she should  be livid with Adam and warning Carole to protect herself. But of course that didn't happen. How on earth LuAnn managed spin her claim that Adam was still sleeping with Nicole and stringing her along, while lying to Carole into being Carole's transgression is beyond me.

So it's not really surprising that she's making excuses for Tom and fixated on Bethenny's detective work. Is the issue really that Bethenny is too intrusive in your relationship? Or that your future partner waited a damn hour before he betrayed you in public? Naturally LuAnn focuses on what Bethenny, the woman, has done wrong and not Tom.

Then there is the fact that LuAnn hates having her less than savory business out in public.

Without a doubt, Luann thinks women should behave differently than men, her standards are odd to say the least. That said, I think Luann decided she could say more about her marriage to Alex now, for whatever reason, than she could before, so we hear it wasn't an outright "open" marriage as Ramona and Bethenny have claimed it was.

I never understood why she focused on Carole but not Adam at all but given the recent events and how she has explained them, I get it now. Luann holds women to a higher standard then she does men.

IMO, Luann was fine with Bethenny, was glad she told her about Tom's cheating and was following Bethenny's advice almost word for word when she was talking to Tom on the phone. It was only after finding out that Bethenny had told the others about this at the beginning of the weekend, 2 days before she told Luann (the victim BTW), that she began to doubt Bethenny's sincerity and her honesty. And, I don't blame her at all.

None of them like having their "less than savory business out in public", least of all Bethenny who shares nothing of her real life on the show. LOL

[Booger666]

3 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I love every sentence in this post except for the one about Lu coming guns blazing for Beth being involved with a married man. I have never understood that when someone is separated from their wife/husband but not yet finalized their divorce they are 'married'. On paper yes, but not in any other way. 

I totally agree with you.  But, I think a few years back Bethenney gave Lu a hard time about dating when she was separated from the count, but the divorce wasn't finalized.  Does anyone else remember this or am I recalling it incorrectly?

[ichbin]

What is up with a 50 year old "making out" in a bar!

[Booger666]

 New topic - Ramona's face. What is going on with her nose?  It's always been a little off center which I assumed was a bad nose job years ago. Lately it looks like it is swinging far, far left. Almost looks like it is trying to escape her face. Has anyone else noticed this or is the bad boob job totally distracting from her nose?

[zoeysmom]

Just now, Booger666 said:

3 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I love every sentence in this post except for the one about Lu coming guns blazing for Beth being involved with a married man. I have never understood that when someone is separated from their wife/husband but not yet finalized their divorce they are 'married'. On paper yes, but not in any other way. 

I totally agree with you.  But, I think a few years back Bethenney gave Lu a hard time about dating when she was separated from the count, but the divorce wasn't finalized.  Does anyone else remember this or am I recalling it incorrectly?

Yep, Ramona and Bethenny held it against her for essentially failing to declare her marriage was over.  The Count's affair was noted overseas and made its way back to the states.

What is always left out of the equation is it appears to me Luann was attempting to lessen the blow to the kids.  Now that they are older, their parents get along, it is probably somewhat easier to explain the breakdown of the marriage.  I guess maybe she could have had a non-disclosure agreement and cite that every time the subject of her marriage came up like say Sonja and Bethenny, or demanded the others consider her children like Ramona did but instead there were some that persisted without thinking their right to know and slam Luann with various accusations outweighed her children's feelings.

If the show wants to continue to have married women, there needs to be some common sense and not let some folks personal lives be fair game and the other half be off limits.  I kind of feel the same way about financial issues, obviously if they have bankruptcy, law suit judgments, that are public record that is fair game, but just digging around to try and dig up dirt on someone or repeating rumors should be off limits. 

[chenoa333]

2 hours ago, OFDgal said:

My daughter came in while I was watching it and noticed the SG products immediately.  So I guess Beth's strategic positioning worked unfortunately.  I told her that every scene this year with her had SG products in it.  She is in her 30's and said that she and her friends had tried SG and hated it.  Product placement doesn't work if the product sucks.  

I tried SGM when it first came out and I couldn't agree more...it sucks!  It tasted like an extremely watered down Margarita. Thanks Bethany, but I can water down my own Margaritas at no extra charge. IIRC I paid around $15.00 for her shit. That was the one and only time I've touched a Frankelstien product..

Just a thought here...is there any way the producers, God, or Satan Andy can get Bethany to stop talking about bleeding from her cooch?

Edited August 25, 2016 by chenoa333
additional comment

[zoeysmom]

24 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Without a doubt, Luann thinks women should behave differently than men, her standards are odd to say the least. That said, I think Luann decided she could say more about her marriage to Alex now, for whatever reason, than she could before, so we hear it wasn't an outright "open" marriage as Ramona and Bethenny have claimed it was.

I never understood why she focused on Carole but not Adam at all but given the recent events and how she has explained them, I get it now. Luann holds women to a higher standard then she does men.

IMO, Luann was fine with Bethenny, was glad she told her about Tom's cheating and was following Bethenny's advice almost word for word when she was talking to Tom on the phone. It was only after finding out that Bethenny had told the others about this at the beginning of the weekend, 2 days before she told Luann (the victim BTW), that she began to doubt Bethenny's sincerity and her honesty. And, I don't blame her at all.

None of them like having their "less than savory business out in public", least of all Bethenny who shares nothing of her real life on the show. LOL

The oddest thing about not telling Luann was they didn't want the vacation to revolve around Luann and Tom.  That is pretty much all we heard about was Luann and Tom, and a lot of Tom. My guess is Luann would have turned around and driven back up to see Tom in Palm Beach or flown back to NYC.  There really is not a good reason for the delay and I don't blame Luann for being angry.    

[Celia Rubenstein]

1 hour ago, Yours Truly said:

I'm just suggesting that it's not all that unusual for people to give second chances is all especially at Lu's stage in the game. I don't find it the least bit extraordinary or pathetic. Just par for the course.

I confess that statement offends me just a bit because I happen to be the same age and the same gender and have the same marital status as Luann, which I guess puts me at the same stage of the game, lol.    And I certainly would not consider what Luann is doing as "par for the course" that I am playing on.  What she is doing is incredibly foolish.  

Luann has already had her heart ripped out and stomped on once by a cheating husband after 15 years of marriage.  Why she would even contemplate taking one step down the aisle toward a man who has already been caught with another woman after only being engaged a nanosecond is unfathomable to me.  Not to mention one who clearly abuses alcohol. 

If we were talking about a woman involved in a long-standing relationship giving her mate a second chance, I could understand not pulling the plug instantly. But Luann has NOTHING invested in this man - other than her pride and a certain amount of desperation to be married/save her place on this show, that is.  Maybe it's worth it to her for those reasons alone, but I agree with others here who have described it as a sad and pathetic situation.

 

Quote

I'm only debating how it went from Tom wanting Dorinda to hear the events from an "impartial" source to Tom demanding Dorinda to tell a bold face lie.  One thing is different than the other.

The waiters and bartenders where Tom is a regular (and probably a nice tipper when he actually sticks around to pay the tab himself) do not feel like an "impartial" source to me.  It has the stink of putting them on the spot and pressuring and probably paying some guys to tell the story he wants told.  These employees don't want any part of his drama and be involved in this mess at work.  I'lll never believe the bar employees would go anywhere near this crap purely from the goodness of their own hearts, especially not if it was going to be filmed!  Not if they value their jobs.  It's a favor for a regular, maybe some cash on the side.  I wouldn't waste my time listening to a word they had to say.

At any rate, no matter what the employees might have to say, it could never erase the fact that Tom was drunk in a bar engaged in a multi-phased series of lip locks with some chick because he was supposedly ticked off at Luann.  There are PICTURES.  I don't see how you can really spin that into anything less disgusting.  Dorinda was right to blow him off for that reason in and of itself.  There was just no point wasting her time listening to the waitstaff try to tell the story any differently.  And what Bethenny had to say about or how partial she might be doesn't mean a thing.  The pictures tell enough of a story all by themselves.

The fact that Tom has admitted how badly he messed up would support that conclusion as well.

[straightshooter]

16 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

The pics had times attached - 10:45, 11:30 and 12:39. So whether it was steady for two hours, the tonsil hockey went on for two hours. Regardless - if it was one kiss lasting a minute and that was my fiance he would be my ex as soon as I found out. But then again, I have self respect. But then I would also never give the time of day to a guy who would happily dump a woman he is on a date with for me. So there is that.

YEP!  He showed his true colors long(ish) ago!

....and I'm moved to (again) quote good ol' Dr. Phil: "If they'll do it with ya, they'll do it to ya"

Edited August 25, 2016 by straightshooter

[MMLEsq]

33 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

Without a doubt, Luann thinks women should behave differently than men, her standards are odd to say the least.

I don't disagree, but it's interesting that Luann does not apparently believe she should be held to the same standard that she holds other women (exhibit A:  the pirate; exhibit B: the married man in Turks and Caicos, etc.).

Edited August 25, 2016 by MMLEsq

[motorcitymom65]

1 hour ago, zoeysmom said:

Well Tom wanted them filmed.  I am going to say there is no guarantee what would come out of their mouths.  How would anyone conclude the waiters were lying without hearing their story?  I wanted to hear from them, because usually these things go terribly wrong for the orchestrator. One could easily conclude that perhaps the waiters had the dirt on John, the player, given Dorinda's reluctance.

I think Dorinda could have been more supportive of Tom and Luann, collectively or individually, she expects respect from the others regarding John 

Why did Dorinda feel the need to tell Ramona?  A simple no to Tom would suffice.

Because Dorinda realized what she was dealing with in Tom. That he was a major d-bag. This event sealed the deal for her. Something like that happens, you are probably going to be incredulous and share the news.  Of course she will probably change her tune at the reunion.  

Good Lord, if Tom wanted the waitstaff on film, then film them. Why does he need Dorinda for that? I can almost guarantee that if there was a scene where Tom and Lu went over and talked to the waitstaff they would have shown it on camera. Or Lu would have mentioned the fact that this event had occurred.  The real thing is they weren't going to get them on film and they knew this. Hence they needed their friend Dorinda to vouch that she had witnessed it.  

The funny thing is that Dorinda questioned Beth's motives in sharing her news, when she herself dropped a major bombshell about Lu and Tom on camera.  Delicious, all of it. 

[chenoa333]

37 minutes ago, Booger666 said:

 New topic - Ramona's face. What is going on with her nose?  It's always been a little off center which I assumed was a bad nose job years ago. Lately it looks like it is swinging far, far left. Almost looks like it is trying to escape her face. Has anyone else noticed this or is the bad boob job totally distracting from her nose?

I've noticed several disturbing things about Ramoana's appearance (like the scene where she had a huge pink curler in her hair ala 1950's. I thought it was one of those As Seen On TV "Bump It" things that you use in your hair to make it puffy!)

But this nose thing  is something I have not taken time to notice. I'm going to binge watch RHONY this weekend and look forward to critiquing Ramoana's nose!

(I wish LabLover still posted on here. She/he is the best of the best on snark and wit!!)

Edited August 25, 2016 by chenoa333

[Yours Truly]

1 hour ago, WireWrap said:

Without a doubt, Luann thinks women should behave differently than men, her standards are odd to say the least. That said, I think Luann decided she could say more about her marriage to Alex now, for whatever reason, than she could before, so we hear it wasn't an outright "open" marriage as Ramona and Bethenny have claimed it was.

I never understood why she focused on Carole but not Adam at all but given the recent events and how she has explained them, I get it now. Luann holds women to a higher standard then she does men.

IMO, Luann was fine with Bethenny, was glad she told her about Tom's cheating and was following Bethenny's advice almost word for word when she was talking to Tom on the phone. It was only after finding out that Bethenny had told the others about this at the beginning of the weekend, 2 days before she told Luann (the victim BTW), that she began to doubt Bethenny's sincerity and her honesty. And, I don't blame her at all.

None of them like having their "less than savory business out in public", least of all Bethenny who shares nothing of her real life on the show. LOL

I think Carole felt Lu's wrath for the simple fact that Carole was taking the whole "good hair don't care" attitude about it all and the person involved was a dear family member of hers. No mystery for me there.

Hell, I know I wanted to slap those chattering teeth out of her damn dome when she started treating the situation the same way she treats people on twitter now.  And I have NO personal investment with that family but I still wanted to beat her ass for being so shitty.

[zoeysmom]

37 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I confess that statement offends me just a bit because I happen to be the same age and the same gender and have the same marital status as Luann, which I guess puts me at the same stage of the game, lol.    And I certainly would not consider what Luann is doing as "par for the course" that I am playing on.  What she is doing is incredibly foolish.  

Luann has already had her heart ripped out and stomped on once by a cheating husband after 15 years of marriage.  Why she would even contemplate taking one step down the aisle toward a man who has already been caught with another woman after only being engaged a nanosecond is unfathomable to me.  Not to mention one who clearly abuses alcohol. 

If we were talking about a woman involved in a long-standing relationship giving her mate a second chance, I could understand not pulling the plug instantly. But Luann has NOTHING invested in this man - other than her pride and a certain amount of desperation to be married/save her place on this show, that is.  Maybe it's worth it to her for those reasons alone, but I agree with others here who have described it as a sad and pathetic situation.

 

The waiters and bartenders where Tom is a regular (and probably a nice tipper when he actually sticks around to pay the tab himself) do not feel like an "impartial" source to me.  It has the stink of putting them on the spot and pressuring and probably paying some guys to tell the story he wants told.  These employees don't want any part of his drama and be involved in this mess at work.  I'lll never believe the bar employees would go anywhere near this crap purely from the goodness of their own hearts, especially not if it was going to be filmed!  Not if they value their jobs.  It's a favor for a regular, maybe some cash on the side.  I wouldn't waste my time listening to a word they had to say.

At any rate, no matter what the employees might have to say, it could never erase the fact that Tom was drunk in a bar engaged in a multi-phased series of lip locks with some chick because he was supposedly ticked off at Luann.  There are PICTURES.  I don't see how you can really spin that into anything less disgusting.  Dorinda was right to blow him off for that reason in and of itself.  There was just no point wasting her time listening to the waitstaff try to tell the story any differently.  And what Bethenny had to say about or how partial she might be doesn't mean a thing.  The pictures tell enough of a story all by themselves.

The fact that Tom has admitted how badly he messed up would support that conclusion as well.

When Luann is speaking of second chances I try and remove the, "What would I do?" from the equation and substitute what if my son or daughter was the cheater, and I felt and knew deep down, my kid was really okay and really loved the fiancé or fiancée, would I want them to be given a second chance?  Because I love my kid I would want what makes them happy.  If it were reversed I would not want to see my kid throw away a chance at happiness because of pride or the opinions of frenemies.   I also would tell my kid, if their fiance or fiancee can't move past the indiscretion and it becomes what defines their relationship they would need to walk away.  Living under that kind of cloud it is not a recipe for happiness.  If their friends can't move past it they need to find new friends. 

Tom admitted to screwing up-it doesn't necessarily mean the behavior was as Bethenny's friend described.  Tom may have had a helluva a mea culpa but because Dorinda, who I find entirely too self absorbed, didn't want to lend her paid time to explore another side of the story we will never know.  I believe it a series of six pictures taken as a mini-video.  I don't think there is a slew of pictures starting at 10:30 and going until 12:30.  I usually find Dorinda to do things that are good for Dorinda, I don't see her being all that altruistic. 

[Yours Truly]

55 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

I confess that statement offends me just a bit because I happen to be the same age and the same gender and have the same marital status as Luann, which I guess puts me at the same stage of the game, lol.    And I certainly would not consider what Luann is doing as "par for the course" that I am playing on.  What she is doing is incredibly foolish.  

Luann has already had her heart ripped out and stomped on once by a cheating husband after 15 years of marriage.  Why she would even contemplate taking one step down the aisle toward a man who has already been caught with another woman after only being engaged a nanosecond is unfathomable to me.  Not to mention one who clearly abuses alcohol. 

If we were talking about a woman involved in a long-standing relationship giving her mate a second chance, I could understand not pulling the plug instantly. But Luann has NOTHING invested in this man - other than her pride and a certain amount of desperation to be married/save her place on this show, that is.  Maybe it's worth it to her for those reasons alone, but I agree with others here who have described it as a sad and pathetic situation.

 

The waiters and bartenders where Tom is a regular (and probably a nice tipper when he actually sticks around to pay the tab himself) do not feel like an "impartial" source to me.  It has the stink of putting them on the spot and pressuring and probably paying some guys to tell the story he wants told.  These employees don't want any part of his drama and be involved in this mess at work.  I'lll never believe the bar employees would go anywhere near this crap purely from the goodness of their own hearts, especially not if it was going to be filmed!  Not if they value their jobs.  It's a favor for a regular, maybe some cash on the side.  I wouldn't waste my time listening to a word they had to say.

At any rate, no matter what the employees might have to say, it could never erase the fact that Tom was drunk in a bar engaged in a multi-phased series of lip locks with some chick because he was supposedly ticked off at Luann.  There are PICTURES.  I don't see how you can really spin that into anything less disgusting.  Dorinda was right to blow him off for that reason in and of itself.  There was just no point wasting her time listening to the waitstaff try to tell the story any differently.  And what Bethenny had to say about or how partial she might be doesn't mean a thing.  The pictures tell enough of a story all by themselves.

The fact that Tom has admitted how badly he messed up would support that conclusion as well.

Different courses.

[zulualpha]

3 hours ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

Bethenny I believe referred to Hoppy as a "thief" and also possibly as a bamboozler? What is that exactly? I see booze in the word but I mean, idk. That's a pretty direct slam. She probably views that he steals Brynn every time she's with him as well. Sad. It's my opinion that some of that fame, success, etc was well earned money on his part as well and he had some due. Thief? No. Not to me. 

The definition of bamboozler is 'to deceive or get the better of (someone) by trickery, flattery, or the like;'  so Bethenny calling Jason a bamboozler is an insult and yes she referred to him as someone who stole from her.  Bethenny needs to STFU about the father of her daughter who to my knowledge has said not a word about her in the press.  I would LOVE to hear his side of the story of his time with Bethenny.  I wish Bravo would give Jason a show so he could get his side out, especially if Bethenny has carte blanch to throw shade at him on camera every time the subject of men comes up.  From what little I saw of their relationship she used him to get a baby then dumped him and tried to keep the baby away from him. Whatever he did to protect himself he was probably justified imo.

51 minutes ago, chenoa333 said:

I tried SGM when it first came out and I couldn't agree more...it sucks!  It tasted like an extremely watered down Margarita. Thanks Bethany, but I can water down my own Margaritas at no extra charge

Yeah, and SGM is probably full of preservatives to boot.  When Bethenny first started talking about margaritias on the show, very early on, she said her go to drink, the skinny girl margarita was a salted or unsalted rim, ice, tequila, fresh lime juice and maybe a splash of soda.  that sounds pretty good to me.  Maybe a drop of orange liquer.  The main thing you want to avoid in a margarita is margarita mix which is basically all sugar and highly caloric.

[lunastartron]

What this season has taught me:

If Lu conducts herself transparently and is open about her healthy adult sexual appetites, those proclivities will be weaponized and used against her irrespective of whether or not it's been one week or several years since she offered her two cents on matters of etiquette or the dynamics of female friendships. As an autonomous middle-aged woman, she will be denigrated as a "slut" and "the biggest whore in Macy's window." She will be derided with all manner of giggly exaggerations and/or fabrications from "Lu will go with anyone" to "Lu doesn't even know the name of her sexual partners" to "Lu has sex with 'young boys not much older than her own son.'" All of this because, hypocrisy. And also, rather Kafkaesquely, misogyny.

It's noted in this thread alone that Lu mitigates and whitewashes the actions of men while vilifying fellow women. Well . . . uh, what have Bethenny, Ramona, Sonja, and Carole been doing all season with their insistence that Lu alone exercises any personal agency vis-à-vis her paramours and that she "steals men" with this fabled pussy that's so magic all she has to do is drunkenly straddle men in order to make them forget their decade-long torrid love affairs and five-or-six-or-seven-or-eight-dates-long romances?

HOWEVER, if Lu adheres to more traditional/archetypal female behavior like effusing giddiness over her betrothal; expressing excitement over forthcoming nuptials; and/or deciding that a blacked-out lip-lock from a man with whom she hasn't yet exchanged vows is a challenge in the relationship that she can personally reconcile . . . then she's pathetic, lacks self-respect, is an affront to feminism itself, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

In this illuminating context, I for one ain't got no confusion over why she might try to commandeer narrative control over the pirate debacle and/or struggle to articulate the nuances of her marriage to the Count.

In my subjective view, Bethenny chose this strategy because it essentially presented a catch-22 for Lu. At the very least, she's humiliated on national television and possibly out of her groom to be; in that event, Bethenny is proven incontrovertibly right. At worst, Bethenny has the opportunity to peddle her favorite standby: that Lu is a hypocrite and desperate to boot.

I was incredibly disappointed that Jules didn't stand her ground more firmly but thems the breaks with decency and grace, I suppose.

[WireWrap]

58 minutes ago, Booger666 said:

 New topic - Ramona's face. What is going on with her nose?  It's always been a little off center which I assumed was a bad nose job years ago. Lately it looks like it is swinging far, far left. Almost looks like it is trying to escape her face. Has anyone else noticed this or is the bad boob job totally distracting from her nose?

I have always wondered if Ramona was born with a cleft palate or nose? Something is off with her nose/mouth and she moves her mouth oddly when she speaks and has since day 1 of this show.

52 minutes ago, Celia Rubenstein said:

 

The waiters and bartenders where Tom is a regular (and probably a nice tipper when he actually sticks around to pay the tab himself) do not feel like an "impartial" source to me.  It has the stink of putting them on the spot and pressuring and probably paying some guys to tell the story he wants told.  These employees don't want any part of his drama and be involved in this mess at work.  I'lll never believe the bar employees would go anywhere near this crap purely from the goodness of their own hearts, especially not if it was going to be filmed!  Not if they value their jobs.  It's a favor for a regular, maybe some cash on the side.  I wouldn't waste my time listening to a word they had to say.

At any rate, no matter what the employees might have to say, it could never erase the fact that Tom was drunk in a bar engaged in a multi-phased series of lip locks with some chick because he was supposedly ticked off at Luann.  There are PICTURES.  I don't see how you can really spin that into anything less disgusting.  Dorinda was right to blow him off for that reason in and of itself.  There was just no point wasting her time listening to the waitstaff try to tell the story any differently.  And what Bethenny had to say about or how partial she might be doesn't mean a thing.  The pictures tell enough of a story all by themselves.

The fact that Tom has admitted how badly he messed up would support that conclusion as well.

I feel the same way about Bethenny's unnamed source as well. Yes, Tom cheated/committed the tonsillectomy, but who took that picture and why did they send it to Bethenny of all people, why not send it to Luann herself? So many questions, so many holes on both sides and no real clear answers to any of them LOL 

[tenativelyyours]

47 minutes ago, MMLEsq said:

I don't disagree, but it's interesting that Luann does not apparently believe she should be held to the same standard that she holds other women (exhibit A:  the pirate; exhibit B: the married man in Turks and Caicos, etc.).

 

While running hypocrisy like Frankelstein's Monster employs with dating and presumably screwing her married man with her bleeding orifice that she was bragging about when he was still living with his wife as his wife as she tears on camera in Luann at Dorinda's and manages to insert these most recent episodes is a bit more rank for me.  Luann bugs the hell out me in this regard as well.  And I'm not saying it is even better than the Monster's hypocrisy.  Because for me the root is an incredibly arrogance on the Haughty Countess's part.  She always moves the goal line for herself.  She always has a different moral stance not just for the man she is involved with, but for each and every situation that comes up.  She had no problem going after Ramona in regards to Mario being a cheater back when it was all just rumors.  And while in hindsight that might have seemed like she knew something there is still a pretty good chance that as slimey as Mario is, he didn't cheat on Ramona until the story that broke.  I personally do not believe it but in terms of facts, Mario as a cheater when they went to Morocco is not one at all.  It is supposition and it is slightly more towards none since not a whisper or word has come out from others before he dipped in the pool of same but different crazy that is Ramona.

But Luann pretty much prates ethics all the while she looks out for herself and herself alone.  Everyone else is suppose to honor her self-righteous beliefs until she drops them as soon as whatever man-opportunity comes her way.  Whether its riding a one night stand like he's her high horse of shifting standards or it is her "Marriage" with a man who is not yet her husband and has a fidelity streak shorter than the business days it takes a check to clear.

 

But in a twist I think that is what keeps this whole steaming mess watchable for me.    Luann can show me again and again why she is hardly sympathetic and hardly someone to root for even as I can watch these recent episodes in hopes a house lands on the Frankelstein's Monster. 

[ElDosEquis]

4 hours ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

Bethenny I believe referred to Hoppy as a "thief" and also possibly as a bamboozler? What is that exactly? I see booze in the word but I mean, idk. That's a pretty direct slam. She probably views that he steals Brynn every time she's with him as well. Sad. It's my opinion that some of that fame, success, etc was well earned money on his part as well and he had some due. Thief? No. Not to me. 

One of the things that make me laugh is the idea that JH was some kind of thief. BF steals the life out of people, the fun from the room and is a waste of O2.

JH may not have been a 'real man' but he sure wasn't a nasty, venomous, piece of shit with dick and pussy jokes wetting his lips. He is a saint for putting up with a fucking shrew like that.

I do like her new haircut - she waxed her ass before she got it fixed.

[Nanny pants]

If Sonja said, "As long as Luann's happy, I'm happy," one more time I thought I'd puke.  Sonja doesn't want Luann (or anyone else, for that matter) to be happy unless Sonja is happy.  And that won't happen until she's reinstated as Lady Morgan.