All Episodes Talk: Lorelai and Rory and the People They Love

[junienmomo]

7 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Regarding Rory applying to, and eventually attending, Yale, I still don't understand why Emily got so emotionally involved. She didn't attend Yale, she never gave any indication that it was her dream school and the period of time was all that kept her from getting in, yet she expressed hurt to Lorelai about being against Rory applying and later was as excited as Richard when she decided to attend. At best I've had to fanwank that it was because it's where she and Richard met, fell in loved, and got engaged but that still doesn't feel like enough of a reason for how invested she was in Rory attending his school.

I wish they'd have Emily maybe care about Rory attending a prestigious school, and wanting Lorelai to keep an open mind about Yale, but otherwise staying out of the fight. Or, have her throw her hat in and try to get Rory to attend Smith and point out that it's just as good as Harvard and Yale and she'd also love it if Rory followed in her footsteps.

Understanding Emily's Yale motivation is easier when we recall that she had a plan for Lorelai re: education and taking a place in society. 

Emily's job was to make her family successful. Their success defined her success.

She mastered the corporate wife job until Richard started going rogue toward the end of his career. She was pummeled with his unilateral decisions like risking their retirement money, hiring Jason and his NY corporate entertainment notions, and so on. Her last resort was her relationship with her husband, which was also damaged by the Pennilyn Lott lunches.

Emily had goals for her daughter from cradle to grave. Lorelai fought her every step of the way. Lorelai was going to be the perfect representation of what a good mother was. No wonder it devastated her when Lorelai left. There was no way to hide that. Any dreams Emily had of Lorelai leading the DAR or performing in any way similar to Emily's career, disappeared with her almost-18 year old daughter.

The story about Emily unable to leave her bed after Lorelai's disappearance foreshadows Rory's inability to perform at Yale after Mitchum's review. Even Paris took the same action after Harvard failed.

Emily's dependence on Rory's success was simply a Mulligan for Emily's motherhood goals. She took that job on enthusiastically, and loved having a willing Rory to show off. 

Nikki, Your recognition of Rory becoming Christopher is actually a minor success for Emily, or better said, not as bad a failure as her parenting Lorelai was.

Even Christopher is not spoken of as a failure. Rory idling away her twenties fits that model very well, and wouldn't be considered a waste by Emily's peers.

[Taryn74]

3 hours ago, junienmomo said:

Emily's job was to make her family successful. Their success defined her success.

Yep. Emily, like Trix, took "becoming one" with her husband very seriously. Yale was the Gilmore legacy and thus the ultimate goal. It didn't matter to Emily that she herself had gone somewhere different. Lorelai, as I recall, was on track to go to a different Ivy League school, which would not have been E&R's first choice but still acceptable -- much like they accepted Rory wanting to go to Harvard without too much fuss, only "gentle hints" that they would really prefer Yale.

[chessiegal]

Considering Yale did not start accepting women until 1969, it's likely that Yale was not a possibility for Emily. If we take Lorelai is 32 in 2000, that means she was born in 1968. If Emily were 21 or 22 when Lorelai was born, she was born around 1946, so at 18 it would have been 1964 when she went to college, and Yale was not an option. Of course she went to one of the Seven Sister colleges, Smith, an all women's college, which it still is today. We do have the storyline that as a child, Lorelai announced she was going to Yale, which she could have done. Smith was considered the sister college of Yale, so I'm sure that's how Emily met Richard.

[Taryn74]

22 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

Considering Yale did not start accepting women until 1969, it's likely that Yale was not a possibility for Emily.

Interesting! I didn't know any of that. (I live in Arkansas and Ivy League schools were - and are LOL - a total mystery to me.) Thanks for the info!

[Hera]

17 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

At best I've had to fanwank that it was because it's where she and Richard met, fell in loved, and got engaged but that still doesn't feel like enough of a reason for how invested she was in Rory attending his school.

There are tons of inconsistencies around the elder Gilmores' plans for Lorelai too. At one point, Lorelai mentions that her parents wanted her to go to Vassar. But then at some other point, Richard tells a story about Lorelai taking his Yale diploma and announcing that's where she wanted to go as well. And then in Season 5, it's mentioned that Emily went to Smith, which is fine (as @chessiegal noted, Emily would have missed out on getting to attend an Ivy League university due to her age, so a Seven Sisters college makes sense), but then you have to wonder why the plan wasn't also Smith (or Yale) for Lorelai. Well—actually, no—we don't have to wonder because it's the Palladinos.

[scarynikki12]

Yep, Emily was not able to attend Yale due to being a woman in that time period. That's why it would have been interesting if they'd revealed that Emily would have loved to attend if they'd allowed it and that contributed to her being Team Yale for Rory. 

I did like how Emily and Richard rushed to claim that they didn't want Rory to go to Yale when she revealed that she'd been accepted and accepted them right back. That was a nice indication that they didn't want to have more fights on the subject and were staying out of this particular decision. 

[Taryn74]

2 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

I did like how Emily and Richard rushed to claim that they didn't want Rory to go to Yale when she revealed that she'd been accepted and accepted them right back. That was a nice indication that they didn't want to have more fights on the subject and were staying out of this particular decision. 

Quote

 

LORELAI: Okay. Mom, Dad, we have some really big news.

RORY: I got my college acceptance letters back.

LORELAI: Harvard, Princeton, and Yale.

RORY: And after giving it a lot of thought, I have decided. I’m going to Yale.

LORELAI: Did you hear that – Yale!

RORY: I’m going to Yale!

LORELAI: That’s where you went, Dad.

RORY: You liked it, remember?

 

LOLLLLL.

[Hera]

2 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

That's why it would have been interesting if they'd revealed that Emily would have loved to attend if they'd allowed it and that contributed to her being Team Yale for Rory.

That or if the men in her family had also gone to Yale. It's funny—we saw Trix and know that Richard's dad died when he was kid, but we don't know anything about Lorelai's grandparents on Emily's side. Even Emily's sister, Hope, only gets mentioned once. It would have been fun if Rory had gotten to meet her on either of her trips to Europe. But then again, given the title of the show, I suppose they had to focus on the Gilmore side of the family. I don't think we were ever even told Emily's maiden name.

[peacheslatour]

11 hours ago, Hera said:

That or if the men in her family had also gone to Yale. It's funny—we saw Trix and know that Richard's dad died when he was kid, but we don't know anything about Lorelai's grandparents on Emily's side. Even Emily's sister, Hope, only gets mentioned once. It would have been fun if Rory had gotten to meet her on either of her trips to Europe. But then again, given the title of the show, I suppose they had to focus on the Gilmore side of the family. I don't think we were ever even told Emily's maiden name.

Wasn't it Gilmore? 😏

[Cetacean]

27 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Wasn't it Gilmore?

Now wouldn't that be a wonderful family tradition.  First Trix and Richard's dad and then Emily and Richard.  Imagine the DNA.

[peacheslatour]

9 minutes ago, Cetacean said:

Now wouldn't that be a wonderful family tradition.  First Trix and Richard's dad and then Emily and Richard.  Imagine the DNA.

No wonder Rory was such a half wit.

[SJC]

11 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

No wonder Rory was such a half wit.

peacheslatour, what do you think of "early" Rory? (Seasons 1-3)
Do you think ASP set her up to fail from the get-go?

[andromeda331]

17 hours ago, Cetacean said:

Now wouldn't that be a wonderful family tradition.  First Trix and Richard's dad and then Emily and Richard.  Imagine the DNA.

I'm too busy imagining Trix's reaction to that given how much she hated Emily.

[Katy M]

41 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

I'm too busy imagining Trix's reaction to that given how much she hated Emily.

she probably wouldn't have hated Emily had she been a Gilmore.

[peacheslatour]

11 hours ago, SJC said:

peacheslatour, what do you think of "early" Rory? (Seasons 1-3)
Do you think ASP set her up to fail from the get-go?

She was alright but the way she ready to dump Chilton after what I assume was years of preparation and planning by herself and Lorelai, the minute a cute dude paid some attention to her, did not bode well for her judgement.

[SJC]

Good point. I liked her up through late season 4.
The Dean affair was too much.  :(

[peacheslatour]

36 minutes ago, SJC said:

Good point. I liked her up through late season 4.
The Dean affair was too much.  :(

Yep. That and dropping out of Yale and being a spoiled baby about Mitchum were a bridge too far for me.

[SJC]

Yes, and SO disappointing to me. ASP ran that character into the ground for sure. After AYITL she's 100% ruined IMHO.
As time went on we were constantly told that Rory was great, but rarely if ever actually shown.

[Taryn74]

2 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

She was alright but the way she ready to dump Chilton after what I assume was years of preparation and planning by herself and Lorelai, the minute a cute dude paid some attention to her, did not bode well for her judgement.

Hmm, that's a really good point. I had always written the 'I totally changed my mind about Chilton!' thing up to it being the Pilot episode and they decided to go a different route with Rory's personality, since "that" Rory didn't come back into play until a few years down the road and it felt so trope-ish, but you're right. It could totally have been foreshadowing as to what she was going to become.

[peacheslatour]

2 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

Hmm, that's a really good point. I had always written the 'I totally changed my mind about Chilton!' thing up to it being the Pilot episode and they decided to go a different route with Rory's personality, since "that" Rory didn't come back into play until a few years down the road and it felt so trope-ish, but you're right. It could totally have been foreshadowing as to what she was going to become.

I was shocked by it because I came into the show when she was already at Chilton and only saw the pilot when they restarted the episodes on UPTV. She seemed so lovely and then switched gears so suddenly it stands out.

[peacheslatour]

I'm not sure if this is where this goes but I had an idea last night (I know, it's cruel and inhumane to detain a fleeting insight) but I would love it if they made a prequel, beginning with seventeen year old Lorelai leaving home with baby Rory and showing up at the Independence Inn and getting that job as a maid. We could follow her exploits as she quickly moves up the ranks to become Executive Manager and moving into Stars Hollow and meeting all the quirky denizens while they were all a lot younger. I think it could be a lot of fun.

[andromeda331]

16 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

I'm not sure if this is where this goes but I had an idea last night (I know, it's cruel and inhumane to detain a fleeting insight) but I would love it if they made a prequel, beginning with seventeen year old Lorelai leaving home with baby Rory and showing up at the Independence Inn and getting that job as a maid. We could follow her exploits as she quickly moves up the ranks to become Executive Manager and moving into Stars Hollow and meeting all the quirky denizens while they were all a lot younger. I think it could be a lot of fun.

Yeah, that would be a lot of fun!

[qtpye]

On 11/6/2021 at 12:26 PM, peacheslatour said:

I'm not sure if this is where this goes but I had an idea last night (I know, it's cruel and inhumane to detain a fleeting insight) but I would love it if they made a prequel, beginning with seventeen year old Lorelai leaving home with baby Rory and showing up at the Independence Inn and getting that job as a maid. We could follow her exploits as she quickly moves up the ranks to become Executive Manager and moving into Stars Hollow and meeting all the quirky denizens while they were all a lot younger. I think it could be a lot of fun.

I think this would be a great idea!

The casting has to be spot on, though, for the younger version of the characters, including Lorelai's parents.

[peacheslatour]

43 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I think this would be a great idea!

The casting has to be spot on, though, for the younger version of the characters, including Lorelai's parents.

Oh yes, that would be easier said than done. I don't know enough about young actors but I bet it could be done. Just spinning here.

[Cloud9Shopper]

I just finished Season 1! This is my second time trying to watch the show. I got through later S5 the first time around (stopped after Emily and Richard’s second wedding so I just decided to start over). 

I do think both Rory and Lorelei have moments of entitlement and cluelessness at times. Lorelei going to the school to bail Rory out after the AP test and beg for her to have another opportunity to get credit was secondhand embarrassment. Likewise, I know this was before cell phones, but Rory didn’t have any way at all to call Lorelei to tell her she’d be out late after the dance? Rory did seem to act like a typical teenager with storming out without telling Lorelei where she was going during their fight. 

Emily seems very complex. I get the impression that she’s still hurt from whatever happened with Lorelei in the past and Lorelei’s running away, hence why she’s very protective of Rory and wanted to create a bedroom for her. But she is so quotable and her -isms hit a great spot for me.

Lorelei…out of all the men in the world why did she enter a relationship with Rory’s teacher?! So inappropriate. I get why Rory feels embarrassed. 

Overall still loving the show, and will see how I like S2! 

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Likewise, I know this was before cell phones, but Rory didn’t have any way at all to call Lorelei to tell her she’d be out late after the dance?

It couldn't very well have been before cell phones if she called Lane from the car to see if her notes were there.  The Deer Hunters was before the dance episode.  However, she fell asleep.  She couldn't call if she was asleep.

[chessiegal]

They definitely had cell phones in 2000. I had one. Besides the pagers, we see them using cell phones. Rory didn't plan on being out late. She and Dean fell asleep at Miss Pattie's. They were MIA all night, not just out late.

[scarynikki12]

From what we saw it looked like Dean started to read while Rory snuggled up next to him. The plan was probably to have some alone time and then go home but the subsequent relaxation resulted in both nodding off. 

[peacheslatour]

18 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

From what we saw it looked like Dean started to read while Rory snuggled up next to him. The plan was probably to have some alone time and then go home but the subsequent relaxation resulted in both nodding off. 

They were reading The Portable  Dorothy Parker. I have that book and it's hilarious. I don't see how anyone could fall asleep reading that. They should have had them reading Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire if they wanted a soporific read.

[Guest]

I’m in the middle of my annual Thanksgiving/Thanksgiving Eve watch of Deep Fried Korean Thanksgiving. I love so much about this episode. Cat Kirk. Dave the local Christian guitar player. “Did somebody say Jackson?” 
 

But I hate Lorelei’s behavior at dinner so much that the last 20% of the episode is hard to watch.

[chitowngirl]

11 hours ago, deaja said:

I’m in the middle of my annual Thanksgiving/Thanksgiving Eve watch of Deep Fried Korean Thanksgiving. I love so much about this episode. Cat Kirk. Dave the local Christian guitar player. “Did somebody say Jackson?” 
 

But I hate Lorelei’s behavior at dinner so much that the last 20% of the episode is hard to watch.

I agree!  This is my favorite episode of the series, but Lorelai at the dinner and Dean and Jess in the alley ruin it a bit. Rory is not something to be won!!

Best line: Lorelai: (to an inebriated Sookie) Are you going to be all right?  Sookie: I’m Sookie.

Edited November 25, 2021 by chitowngirl

[SJC]

12 hours ago, deaja said:

But I hate Lorelei’s behavior at dinner so much that the last 20% of the episode is hard to watch.

This, this...a thousand times this ! 😣

[peacheslatour]

Quote

But I hate Lorelei’s behavior at dinner so much that the last 20% of the episode is hard to watch.

That was so unbelievably rude. I was actually shocked by it.

[SJC]

She was such an immature, stupid brat at times.

[chessiegal]

Yesterday I saw that the UpTV marathon was up to airing my 2 favorite episodes of the entire series - Scene in a Mall followed by The Reigning Lorelai. I took a break from football to watch. It's episodes like these 2 that remind me how good the show can be. The snappy dialogue, the good acting. Of course, these 2 episodes have so much of Kelly Bishop just knocking it out of the park. Good times.

[Taryn74]

23 hours ago, peacheslatour said:

That was so unbelievably rude. I was actually shocked by it.

Agreed. If it was a typical FND I wouldn't have been surprised, much less shocked, but for Lorelai to act like that in front of guests was truly appalling. Poor Natalie kept trying to apologize thinking it was somehow her fault, which should have at least made Lorelai take a step back and realize how horrible she was being, but nope. All she did was say 'Sorry you have to see this'. Unbelievable. 

 

1 hour ago, chessiegal said:

Yesterday I saw that the UpTV marathon was up to airing my 2 favorite episodes of the entire series - Scene in a Mall followed by The Reigning Lorelai. I took a break from football to watch. It's episodes like these 2 that remind me how good the show can be. The snappy dialogue, the good acting. Of course, these 2 episodes have so much of Kelly Bishop just knocking it out of the park. Good times.

Two fantastic episodes! "So, there's a cape?" 

[SJC]

1 hour ago, chessiegal said:

Scene in a Mall

I was pleasantly shocked when she complimented Lorelai. 

[peacheslatour]

12 minutes ago, SJC said:

I was pleasantly shocked when she complimented Lorelai. 

And when she was so docile about the food court vittles.

[SJC]

36 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

And when she was so docile about the food court vittles.

Bizarre !

[chessiegal]

Emily: If he would just shave off that damn mustache!

[peacheslatour]

47 minutes ago, chessiegal said:

Emily: If he would just shave off that damn mustache!

And hanging out with Moby!

[andromeda331]

23 hours ago, SJC said:

I was pleasantly shocked when she complimented Lorelai. 

So am I. I'm also surprised when Lorelai tells Emily she got it from her. It was a really nice moment between Emily and Lorelai. I do wish it we got to see Emily deciding to do something. She sounded so bored with her life. Or at least unfulfilled. They could have had her get involved in something or try something new. 

[chessiegal]

Emily had plenty going on besides being a corporate wife. Lorelai even pointed it out. She had the DAR, garden club, and it seems she is on all kind of boards. She just wasn't building a business like Lorelai was.

[Keywestclubkid]

On 11/27/2021 at 1:14 PM, andromeda331 said:

So am I. I'm also surprised when Lorelai tells Emily she got it from her. It was a really nice moment between Emily and Lorelai. I do wish it we got to see Emily deciding to do something. She sounded so bored with her life. Or at least unfulfilled. They could have had her get involved in something or try something new. 

I think Emily was very fulfilled with her life and where it was .. it was only after Richard died that she became aimless ... she loved her meetings and friends and being the top of her social circle 

[Taryn74]

3 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

I think Emily was very fulfilled with her life and where it was .. it was only after Richard died that she became aimless ... she loved her meetings and friends and being the top of her social circle 

I think her feelings also took a major hit when Richard went along with all of Jason's "new, hip" (LOL....not really, but they were for them) ideas for the company instead of sticking with the things she was good at organizing as a proper socialite wife. That was, after all, what brought on the Scene in a Mall meltdown.

[junienmomo]

10 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

I think Emily was very fulfilled with her life and where it was .. it was only after Richard died that she became aimless ... she loved her meetings and friends and being the top of her social circle 

Neither Richard nor Emily planned for retirement, a problem common to most people. Richard was hot-headed and cavalier with their retirement funds, nearly costing them a lot. Hmm, like father, like daughter? 
Emily had not planned her life after retirement, either. For all that she managed the social side of her life and was highly practiced in the snooty social arts, she hadn't begun to carve out a niche for her retired self.

[Keywestclubkid]

4 hours ago, junienmomo said:

Neither Richard nor Emily planned for retirement, a problem common to most people. Richard was hot-headed and cavalier with their retirement funds, nearly costing them a lot. Hmm, like father, like daughter? 
Emily had not planned her life after retirement, either. For all that she managed the social side of her life and was highly practiced in the snooty social arts, she hadn't begun to carve out a niche for her retired self.

 The 2nd time he is in the hospital in the gift shop Emily explains all of this during her breakdown how there is a system and to call lawyers and set things in motion because they didn’t the first time. They prepared.  Even when Richard quit his job he knew it wasn’t like him or something that he would normally do and got to getting everything in order once he realized that. These people are rich for a reason and it wasn’t from not planning 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Keywestclubkid

[Cloud9Shopper]

I watched Harvard Road Trip (2x4) last night and mostly enjoyed it! I liked Lorelei trying to fit in with the upper class crowd by saying she publishes books, and even though I’m not sure this would fly in real life, I thought Rory had a lot of gumption to sit in on that lecture and get into a discussion. I couldn’t really hate her for it.

I did not like when they sat down in some random person’s room and looked around though. That was beyond weird. It’s been a long time since I was in college but I could’ve sworn there were some schools who kept an empty dorm room available to show prospective students what a setup would look like. Maybe I’m wrong? Again it’s been a million years. 

[peacheslatour]

Quote

I watched Harvard Road Trip (2x4) last night and mostly enjoyed it! I liked Lorelei trying to fit in with the upper class crowd by saying she publishes books,

Lol, I don't think there was anything remotely upper class about those people.

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I did not like when they sat down in some random person’s room and looked around though. That was beyond weird. It’s been a long time since I was in college but I could’ve sworn there were some schools who kept an empty dorm room available to show prospective students what a setup would look like.

They weren't there for an actual tour. They just moseyed onto campus and wandered around like they owned the place like the entitled brats they tend to be. (I kinda hate RTtH, LOL.)