Jill, Derick & the Kids: Moving On!!

[FizzyPuff]

5 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Derelict is definitely a downer. I've seen zero sense of humor from the guy since day one. He got that attitude from his sour mother.

Thing is I remember him in 19 kids and counting when he was courting Jill and he seemed so different happy even. What happened to him? 

[Absolom]

He married a Duggar without knowing what that meant.

[emma675]

I wouldn't call Derp evil but I get the feeling that he is very unpleasant to be around and probably has a bad temper. He just has dead eyes. 

I had two guys install a new bed at my house yesterday and it never crossed my mind to break it in with either one of them. It must be so miserable to be in a marriage that has so little trust.

Edited August 25, 2019 by emma675d

[mythoughtis]

8 minutes ago, Absolom said:

He married a Duggar without knowing what that meant.

Yes and no.  He didn’t know what it meant when he asked JB to be his prayer partner. But he should have gotten a clue during the supervised Skype chats, the group texts, the Nepal visit when JB almost yanked Jill’s arm off  moving between them when Derick put his hand on her back in a flirting manner.  More clues should have arisen when he had to take children on their dates to chaperone them, when he had to  participate in the silly Happy Happy song the kids sang for JB and Michelle, JBs pre-marital counseling.  He knew all that wasn’t ‘normal’. 

However - he didn’t know about Josh.  He didn’t know Jill couldn’t be left alone while he went to work, couldn’t handle college classes or actually being a missionary. 

Edited August 25, 2019 by mythoughtis

[Absolom]

Derick doesn't seem the most discerning person on the earth and he probably delusionally thought all that was superficial trappings that would fall away after they were married.  I don't think he knew Jill herself at all before they married.

[GeeGolly]

I don't see Derick as evil. I see him as completely tone deaf. His sarcastic humor and Christian arrogance are off putting as well.

But I also don't think they're unhappy in their marriage either. I'm guessing they really have no idea how they come off to most mainstream folks, again tone deaf.

[galaxychaser]

28 minutes ago, Puffin said:

Thing is I remember him in 19 kids and counting when he was courting Jill and he seemed so different happy even. What happened to him? 

He got sold a lie. Jill isn’t who she was portrayed to be. Other than being a virgin and she does seem like a sweet girl... she can’t cook, clean or be a midwife as she was portrayed to be.

[Ohiopirate02]

7 minutes ago, galaxychaser said:

He got sold a lie. Jill isn’t who she was portrayed to be. Other than being a virgin and she does seem like a sweet girl... she can’t cook, clean or be a midwife as she was portrayed to be.

I agree. I hate to think of Jill as a lemon, but there is a lot of truth to it.  She was lied to by her parents to believe she was more capable than what they raised her to be.  Couple that with them sweeping Josh's molestation under the rug and not getting Jill or her sisters the help they needed.  They failed her and Derick. 

[fonfereksglen]

45 minutes ago, Absolom said:

Derick doesn't seem the most discerning person on the earth and he probably delusionally thought all that was superficial trappings that would fall away after they were married.  I don't think he knew Jill herself at all before they married.

Add in the loss of a parent and a mom with cancer.  

I consider TLC and their insistence on the Danger America filming with all the family visits to be damaging along with all the flying back and forth for TLC timed events.  Never forget TLC and the quest for episodes and money.

Neither is a bad person.  This is a couple that needs to fire the social media consultant and either figure out the career,  marriage and child raising stuff or go their separate ways.  Their two little ones need and deserve stability.

Edited August 25, 2019 by fonfereksglen

[Sew Sumi]

7 minutes ago, fonfereksglen said:

Add in the loss of a parent and a mom with cancer.  

I consider TLC and their insistence on the Danger America filming with all the family visits to be damaging along with all the flying back and forth for TLC timed events.  Never forget TLC and the quest for episodes and money.

Neither is a bad person.  This is a couple that needs to fire the social media consultant and either figure out the career,  marriage and child raising stuff or go their separate ways.  Their two little ones need and deserve stability.

They bragged endlessly about their Covenant Marriage. Unless there's cheating or abuse, they're stuck together. 

[galaxychaser]

Just now, Sew Sumi said:

They bragged endlessly about their Covenant Marriage. Unless there's cheating or abuse, they're stuck together. 

Or death.

[Absolom]

9 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

They bragged endlessly about their Covenant Marriage. Unless there's cheating or abuse, they're stuck together. 

Not really.  They're no more bound than any of the other fundie couples we've seen run off at the mouth when young and later divorce.

[Sew Sumi]

They can divorce, sure, but with the legal covenant in place, it's nearly impossible. Even if there's been affairs and/or abuse. There's something like a two year "cooling off" period before a divorce can even proceed.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Sew Sumi

[Minivanessa]

12 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

They can divorce, sure, but with the legal covenant in place, it's nearly impossible. Even if there's been affairs and/or abuse. There's something like a two year "cooking off" period before a divorce can even proceed.

I'm sure that's a typo, but I'm having fun imagining a Covenant Marriage Cook-Off. 

🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Sew Sumi]

Fixed that. 😂😂😂😂

[JoanArc]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

Yeah @Puffin I wouldn't go so far as to say Derick looks evil because that's rather strong. But I just get the feeling he is deeply unpleasant to be around. 

 He’s like a parent that spends 24 7 around a toddler never has an adult conversation. Except Jill is the toddler. It must be exhausting to be stuck with her. 

24 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

They can divorce, sure, but with the legal covenant in place, it's nearly impossible. Even if there's been affairs and/or abuse.

 I think that only applies to the state where you get the covenant marriage. Divorcing in another state where it is not recognized  it’s no big deal. And if they don’t get a divorce they could certainly live apart for a while, and likely be much happier. 

[Minivanessa]

4 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Fixed that. 😂😂😂😂

Joking aside. I couldn't help it. I looked it up and found this info sheet from Arkansas Legal Services about divorce under a covenant marriage. It's indeed awful. Even in cases of sexual or physical abuse of a child by one spouse, the other spouse MUST get "marriage counseling" before they can get a divorce. Damn.

ETA: It's good news, if those covenant marriage laws don't carry over into states where they aren't on the books. 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Jeeves

[Zella]

1 minute ago, JoanArc said:

 He’s like a parent that spends 24 7 around a toddler never has an adult conversation. Except Jill is the toddler. It must be exhausting to be stuck with her. 

Yeah as I've said on here before, I strongly suspect they're trapped in a toxic cycle where she aggravates him by being clingy and immature, which makes him even more pissed off and distant and mean, which makes her act even more clingy and immature. Rinse and repeat. 

[Sew Sumi]

But they'd still have to separate and one of them move out of state to establish residency. That's still a thing, isn't it?

[JoanArc]

10 minutes ago, Zella said:

Yeah as I've said on here before, I strongly suspect they're trapped in a toxic cycle where she aggravates him by being clingy and immature, which makes him even more pissed off and distant and mean, which makes her act even more clingy and immature. Rinse and repeat. 

 I also get the feeling that every attempt made to mature her has blown up in Derick’s face.  Honestly, she needs twice a week counseling and long-term remedial education, combined with an outside social life, perhaps even a job, to become an effective adult.  I don’t think she’s ever going to get it, so this is going to drag out another 40 years. Goddamn her parents. 

[Minivanessa]

10 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

But they'd still have to separate and one of them move out of state to establish residency. That's still a thing, isn't it?

Oh, definitely there would need to be residency in one of the 47 states that doesn't have covenant marriage laws. 

[JoanArc]

1 minute ago, Jeeves said:

Oh, definitely there would need to be residency in one of the 47 states that doesn't have covenant marriage laws. 

 Dillard family ministries converts the Catholics in Reno! 

[Zella]

4 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

 I also get the feeling that every attempt made to mature her has blown up in Derick’s face.  Honestly, she needs twice a week counseling and long-term remedial education, combined with an outside social life, perhaps even a job, to become an effective adult.  I don’t think she’s ever going to get it, so this is going to drag out another 40 years. Goddamn her parents. 

Yes, it's very sad. I don't think he's up for the task, though it would certainly be difficult for anyone. But he seems like the worst possible person for the job. 

[Sew Sumi]

2 minutes ago, Zella said:

Yes, it's very sad. I don't think he's up for the task, though it would certainly be difficult for anyone. But he seems like the worst possible person for the job. 

True. He appears to have about as much compassion as a serial killer. Well, not quite that cold, but close.

[JoanArc]

8 minutes ago, Zella said:

Yes, it's very sad. I don't think he's up for the task, though it would certainly be difficult for anyone. But he seems like the worst possible person for the job. 

 I’m not defending him, but most people wouldn’t know how exactly to help someone who’s lived Jill’s life. There’s not a lot of conversation in our culture about reparenting someone in their mid-20s. 

[Zella]

1 minute ago, JoanArc said:

 I’m not defending him, but most people wouldn’t know how exactly to help someone who’s lived Jill’s life. There’s not a lot of conversation in our culture about reparenting someone in their mid-20s. 

Agreed. I do think this is a situation where if he hadn't guzzled the Kool-Aid, though, and actually got to know her before they married, he would have figured out this was not a good relationship or they could have at least had an honest conversation about some of this stuff. 

I think some genuine counseling would do these two a lot of good, though I'm sure that suggestion would be vehemently rejected by both of them.

[Sew Sumi]

4 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

 I’m not defending him, but most people wouldn’t know how exactly to help someone who’s lived Jill’s life. There’s not a lot of conversation in our culture about reparenting someone in their mid-20s. 

She needs a shit ton of REAL therapy.

[fonfereksglen]

1 minute ago, JoanArc said:

 I’m not defending him, but most people wouldn’t know how exactly to help someone who’s lived Jill’s life. There’s not a lot of conversation in our culture about reparenting someone in their mid-20s. 

That is why therapy would have helped the sexually abused Jill.  And her husband.    

I assume it is a given that in the background of every conversation about Jill must include her horrific parents neglect.

[JoanArc]

19 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

She needs a shit ton of REAL therapy.

 Oh, I agree, and it’s not like  they couldn’t afford it. I mean after all they paid for their house in cash along with graduate school tuition and everything! Derreck can get a few more scholarships do a little more budgeting, etc. 

[Absolom]

1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

They can divorce, sure, but with the legal covenant in place, it's nearly impossible. Even if there's been affairs and/or abuse. There's something like a two year "cooling off" period before a divorce can even proceed.

It's not that difficult.  Yes, they'd have to wait two years if they file in Arkansas, but that would be the toughest part.  They could have a settlement in place and basically be de facto divorced just waiting for the date to get there.  Or even easier, Derick moves to Oklahoma and files there.  Covenant only a applies to two or three states.  It's really no impediment at all just an inconvenience.

[fonfereksglen]

I appreciate a discussion where no one is evil, no playing Duggar v Duggar like in the Jing thread, and at least a bit of acknowlegement how damaged the abused girls are, including HRH Jessa.  Watching Joy blossom as a young married woman is a sign that other Duggars may become strong in the right circumstances.

However......damaging the next generation by expoitation via social media in order to make a few bucks is a modern version of child exploitation.  I weep for Jing and her little one when the sheen wears off.

And thus ends my sermon.

[mynextmistake]

19 hours ago, GeeGolly said:

I don't think anyone has a problem with the Duggars changing their minds. Or even think that everytime they change their minds they owe anyone an explanation.

But they have emphasized having as many children as God provides. Emphasized it to the point that they presented it as the only way, the right way, to look at family planning. So if they repeatedly put a belief or message out there, it makes sense they would offer at least a brief explanation if they had a change in heart.

Personally, after watching that live video of Jill making soup and Derick answering questions about having children, I'm not sure they're using birth control.

Google says there's a 15% - 25% chance of getting pregnant each month, with an increase if sex is timed correctly.

If they're leaving it up to chance, or God and not timing sex, then they're decreasing their odds.

If they’re having sex three to four times a week, it doesn’t really matter if they’re timing intercourse — they should be hitting her fertile window basically every month. After eighteen months, 93 percent of couples not using contraception of some kind (not sure if this stat includes NFP as “contraception,” but it probably does) will conceive. Unless they have acquired fertility problems, it’s extremely unlikely that they would not have conceived again by now without contraception. 

[JoanArc]

10 minutes ago, fonfereksglen said:

Watching Joy blossom as a young married woman is a sign that other Duggars may become strong in the right circumstances.

This is more appropriate for her thread, but joy is, to me one of the more damaged daughters. It’s like the hollowed out any kind of personality and just told her the kind of life she’s going to have, and she’s fine going along with it. No education of her own,  or will of her own.  At least Jill has a personality,  all be at one of the 13-year-old girl.

[fonfereksglen]

11 minutes ago, JoanArc said:

This is more appropriate for her thread, but joy is, to me one of the more damaged daughters. It’s like the hollowed out any kind of personality and just told her the kind of life she’s going to have, and she’s fine going along with it. No education of her own,  or will of her own.  At least Jill has a personality,  all be at one of the 13-year-old girl.

Interesting.  I will look at this from a different angle to see if I agree. Though Joy was so young we don't know when or if the lightbulb went on.

I do agree that Jill is the age she was abused.  Classic stuff when discussed with drugs, drinking and promiscuous behavior.

Edited August 25, 2019 by fonfereksglen
JillRs random caps suddenly appeared.

[floridamom]

Maybe after the horrendous labors and deliveries that Jill had, she has scarring in her female organs that could make conception a bit less likely?

[satrunrose]

I see Derrick and Jill as two people desperately searching for their direction in life, which isn't really a problem for their age (although they are both getting a little long in the tooth for their early 20s madly off in all directions ways). As public figures, they certainly aren't coming off as people who have it all together, which I think is what they desperately want.

I wonder how they reconcile their belief that they know the Will Of God with the fact that all of their ventures (accountant, midwifery, missionaries, ministry, lifestyle gurus) seem to have been mediocre at best. Do they think God wants them to try lots of things or are they not praying hard enough to get 'his' message? 

[Fosca]

7 hours ago, floridamom said:

Maybe after the horrendous labors and deliveries that Jill had, she has scarring in her female organs that could make conception a bit less likely?

I'm holding onto the "Jill is now infertile" notion until/unless she gets pregnant again.  I do think that Sam's birth damaged her physically.  Or if Jill comes out and says they are on birth control, I might rethink that notion, but I don't think she could even bring herself to think about being on birth control, much less do it, headship or no headship.

[doodlebug]

16 hours ago, mynextmistake said:

If they’re having sex three to four times a week, it doesn’t really matter if they’re timing intercourse — they should be hitting her fertile window basically every month. After eighteen months, 93 percent of couples not using contraception of some kind (not sure if this stat includes NFP as “contraception,” but it probably does) will conceive. Unless they have acquired fertility problems, it’s extremely unlikely that they would not have conceived again by now without contraception. 

It couldn't include NFP because NFP requires abstaining from intercourse for a week to 10 days each month.  NFP can be pretty effective with a motivated, educated couple who stick to the guidelines.

[madpsych78]

1 hour ago, Fosca said:

I'm holding onto the "Jill is now infertile" notion until/unless she gets pregnant again.  I do think that Sam's birth damaged her physically.  Or if Jill comes out and says they are on birth control, I might rethink that notion, but I don't think she could even bring herself to think about being on birth control, much less do it, headship or no headship.

Didn't Derick state in that video that Jill wouldn't have a baby this year (2019)? I don't know, I still think that Derick is preventing pregnancy without Jill's consent.

[GeeGolly]

34 minutes ago, madpsych78 said:

Didn't Derick state in that video that Jill wouldn't have a baby this year (2019)? I don't know, I still think that Derick is preventing pregnancy without Jill's consent.

Derick likes to play with his words all the time. Jill would have had to have been 4 or 5 months pregnant when the question was asked, to have a baby in 2019.

[QuinnInND]

My kids start school tomorrow. My 3 year old twins will be in preschool 3 days a week. I feel bad for Izzy that he'll never get to do that. Or go to 3rd grade like my 8 year old.  He's stuck with stupid parents and no education or socializing. Sad. 

[galaxychaser]

Izzy got YouTube for education and socializing...

[Sew Sumi]

7 minutes ago, galaxychaser said:

Izzy got YouTube for education and socializing...

He's already become an orthopedic surgeon via YouTube videos. (Which is more than I can say) 

[Bayarea4]

3 hours ago, Fosca said:

I'm holding onto the "Jill is now infertile" notion until/unless she gets pregnant again.  I do think that Sam's birth damaged her physically.  Or if Jill comes out and says they are on birth control, I might rethink that notion, but I don't think she could even bring herself to think about being on birth control, much less do it, headship or no headship.

2 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

Didn't Derick state in that video that Jill wouldn't have a baby this year (2019)? I don't know, I still think that Derick is preventing pregnancy without Jill's consent.Counting On

My theory is that after Sam's birth, doctors advised Jill to not have any more children. This could be the reason that family members were seen crying when they visited Jill in the hospital. Whether her tubes were tied or whether they're using BC is anyone's guess. 

As for Derick's "not this year" remark, I think he knows there will be no more blessings but is being vague about it because it would hurt their brand to admit that they're no longer letting God decide the size of their family.

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, QuinnInND said:

My kids start school tomorrow. My 3 year old twins will be in preschool 3 days a week. I feel bad for Izzy that he'll never get to do that. Or go to 3rd grade like my 8 year old.  He's stuck with stupid parents and no education or socializing. Sad. 

My mother told me I cried my first day of preschool because I had so much fun I didn't want to leave. I think Izzy desperately needs a break from his parents. Jill is too dumb to figure out why a bored, undersocialized four year-old is driving her nuts, so she resents him and pushes him to the side. A few hours of space every day would do all of them a world of good. 

[McManda]

2 hours ago, madpsych78 said:

I still think that Derick is preventing pregnancy without Jill's consent.

He's her headship. He doesn't need her consent, he just tells her how it's going to be and that's that.

[galaxychaser]

New live video. Sam really turned cute lol. 

[Sew Sumi]

Jill, that story wasn't funny. It was pretty lame.

[ginger90]

So the window in their car wouldn’t go up. They taped a bag over it. The bag broke. It started to rain, Samuel was scared. Perhaps they could have put his seat in the middle, Jill could have sat next to him?

Nope! Instead we get these gems:

[GeeGolly]

Asshole mother move Jill.